DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... The Murder of Kathryn Steinle

I think a combination of a physical barrier along with high tech surveillance (satellites, drones, sensors, etc) to improve ICE enforcement efforts would be a good first step. Then, institute a National ID Card program - one for citizens and a different one for guest workers. Use an E-Verify model - a simple card swipe - to qualify workers. The program would impose steep fines and eventual jail time on repeat offenders (employers) and deportment for anyone not holding one of the two types of cards. The ID card would also be useful to verify that only American citizens are voting in our elections.

Who's going to pay for this?

Whatever the cost, it will be dwarfed by the financial drag illegals impose on our economy, infrastructure, hospitals, schools, law enforcement agencies, etc. Who pays for that?

Countries around the world are dealing with the same issue.

Some immigrants commit crimes and sometimes commit them again. Some citizens commit crimes and sometimes commit them again. 2 of them got past the barriers of a prison a few weeks ago.

Stating this doesn't mean I'm ok at all with this woman being shot by anybody. I also think discussing San Francisco's sanctuary city policy is reasonable.

I've been reading about sanctuary cities and at best it's a confusing interaction between local, state and federal agencies to budget money toward arresting real criminals instead of spending to arrest and deport people who come to find work or be with family.

I'd appreciate if anyone who understands it better would share what they know.

A wall would be a tremendous financial fiasco to build and maintain and you would still need border guards and those who really wanted in, probably the same ones we really don't want in, would still find a way.

That's all my opinion and I'm sure it's no where close to analyzing or solving what is either a real problem or a political football.

I guess all those fences around military installations are completely unnecessary then? The one around the white house is useless, because the secret service inside the fence seem to have been told not to shoot anyone.

A fence will not stop anyone by itself. Anyone who thinks the fence will do anything by itself is a moron.

There are 3 basic reasons illegals come here. The first is a chance at citizenship. Even if the illegal cannot be a citizen, their children will be just for being born here. That's why we need to amend that part of the Constitution. The second is jobs. Yes, there are jobs Americans don't want to do. I'm pretty sure there are some that will do those jobs. If we had the fence and boarder protection, we could control the aliens that come in for those jobs, and give them a legal worker status of some sort. We can bring in people that we want to work those jobs once no one takes them. The third reason is benefits. If we continue to give away benefits to everyone, everyone will want them.

As for your thought that all these people will either go around the fence or take boats, yes, they will try. But if these people cannot obtain citizenship or work, they have no reason to be here. At the very least, we slow the influx of people until they get it through their heads that there is nothing here for them if they are not legal.

There is an old saying that locks only stop honest people. A fence will only stop the honest people too. The idea of the fence is to slow them down or limit their entry points. Following the rest of our laws already on the books for immigration is the other mechanism we have for stopping illegal immigration. If we continue to make our country the land of the free welfare, free foodstamps, free healthcare to anyone that manages to get here, it won't be free for much longer.

1) I'm for enforcing our immigration laws, protecting our borders, and coming down hard on those that try to cross illegally.

2) Making immigration a more efficient and affordable option (but also have an annual cap for applications)

3) Setting up a feasible work visa program for low-wage and farm workers that provides some standards for those workers as far as wages and care. These are people, and don't deserve to be treated like indentured servants.

4) We need to find a good solution for the good people that are already here and have taken root with families, lives, etc.

No matter what, the process will take years if not a couple decades to implement.

you're trying to compare a US military base to a country's border. that's #1 in your flawed argument.

also, as it's clear you haven't been in the military, people sneak into military bases. all. the. time. Sometimes, right through the front gate. other times? through areas where we go to the field for a week or a month, because all it is some raggedy fence. i promise you, some of yall have better fencing in your yards than the military does around their bases.

so just using YOUR logic all by itself, if we can't even properly secure military bases, then how the hell you expect to secure the border?

feel good solutions, thats all you're offering.

and you're comparing the white house security to trying to secure a border?

come on, you're smarter than that.

to Tula: bro the one you posted was a good starting point. about annexing mexico and such. i agreed with you, just responded with some issues that might arise from it.

guys, except Tulsa, the people against immigration like Erik haven't made an actual solution to the ROOT problem, just a symptom. Except this symptom is ever going to go away, no matter how hard we try.

Root causes is was fixes immigration.

I'm all for securing the border better, but that's only AFTER we get to root problems. maybe doing what ronald reagan did is a start, giving amnesty to illegals who's ONLY crime was coming over here illegally.

Then we can go full lock down. because as long as there are what? 11 million illegals? there will ALWAYS be a way to get through the border, and quite easily. because they know where to go, and some of it doesn't involve a fence.

Once again, since you obviously missed it, a fence won't stop them, it slows them down. I can repeat it a few more times if you'd like me to. If you reread what I wrote, I also provided a solution for the illegal situation. Don't give them citizenship; Don't give them jobs; Don't give them benefits. Take away their reasons to come here illegally.

BTW, because you represented me here incorrectly, I am not against immigration, I am against illegal immigration.

i'm against illegal immigration too, however i'm simply arguing that your solutions will not work.

yes, a fence all by itself won't work, i get that, you don't need to repeat it.

but all your other solutions won't either. it HASN'T. they have helicopters and such, they have beefed up security at points.

and it's still happening. why?

because you're not taking into account one thing that we all suffer from, especially people that have to secure the border: complacency.

it doesn't matter how much technology you have, how many people you got securing the border. when a person is assigned a task such as watching the border, they get complacent. whatever your solutions to complacency, forget it, that also doesn't work.

and people crossing the border, and the Coyotes KNOW that.

then on to your thing with don't give them jobs or benefits and such.

i agree in principle, but once again, in reality it just won't work.

your thing about giving them work visa's. the funny thing about visa's: now you have to pay them minimal wage, which was the whole point as to why farmers hired them in the first place. now they have rights and such. who says they want to work the farm anymore?

they have to get paid minimum wage, which is gonna cause the groceries to go up. we have americans angry of illegal immigration. if that happens, we are left with.....angry americans over illegal immigration and grocery cost?

so you solved one solution but created another problem.

So i'll repeat this for you a few more times as well: All you're offering is feel good solutions. nothing more.

And you've offered nothing but maintaining the status quo.

My ideas get rid of complacency. I thought that actually doing something about this problem would show that we, as a populace, can't be complacent. The easiest way to stop this problem is to limit access, then remove their reasons for coming here. If we don't let the illegals come here and have the same rights and benefits of being a citizen, they won't come.

Who has time for this?

Punitive punishments, throughout the course of human history, don't work.

We need to ask "Why aren't people following the legal way to get into our country?" It goes far beyond the "Well, they're lazy and want to break laws", too.

no, what i offered was solving root problems. you just don't like those suggestions.

even with zero benefits and such, illegals still want to come here. this is the US. everybody wants to come here. jobs will just hire them under the table, off the books. that you think they aren't going to still work is well, ignorance.

what i'm suggesting is we get to the root of the reasons the feel they need to come here in the first place. thats looking at their country. economy, crime rate, employment opportunities, corruption levels.

sorry, but all your offering is more a less building a fence. thats party line talk, and the true definition of maintaining the status quo, as it's only a feel good solution.

How about the fact that this weapon is either a government plant or is made to look like a government plant? That's kind of a big deal to me.

well i posted that link but nobody wants to talk about it so.....

I think you just need to follow electricity, the path of least resistance, to find out why they want to come here. It easier and cheaper to break our laws than it is to follow them. That does not mean we should allow them to continue to break our laws. My goodness, who do they think they are, Colorado?

Yeah, I saw it earlier and it kind of blows my mind.

A guy who has deported 5 times gets out of jail and is let free through a procedural error when he should be sent to ICE for re-deportation, finds a gun wrapped in a rag under a bench which happens to have a serial number matching that issued to a federal agent and commits a seemingly otherwise random murder with no attempt at robbery?

Maybe we should deport all the legal officers instead... Make sure nothing like this could ever happen again.

my guess as a partial reason, many don't understand the legal process of doing so. it's not like there are commercials "How to become american" and most coming over never finished school, lived poor, didn't have access to the information even if they wanted to research it.

Hundreds of thousands of convicted criminal immigrants remain at large in the U.S. and a number have gone on to commit additional crimes.

According to a March 2, 2015 “ICE Weekly Departures and Detention Report” obtained by Center for Immigration Studies expert Jessica Vaughan and shared with Breitbart News, there were 168,680 convicted criminal immigrants who had final orders of removal but who remained at large in the U.S.

Another 179,018 convicted criminal immigrants with deportation cases pending also remained at large.

While the vast majority were not in custody some were detained — namely 6,220 criminal immigrants facing final deportation orders and another 7,680 convicted criminal immigrants with immigration cases pending.

In recent years there has been a focus on the number of annual criminal immigrant releases.

In 2013 the Obama administration released 36,007 criminal immigrants who had nearly 88,000 convictions. Those convictions included 193 homicide convictions, 426 sexual assault convictions, 303 kidnapping convictions, and 1,075 aggravated assault convictions.

In January, the Department of Homeland Security revealed in a 38-page document to Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-IA) showing that of those criminals released in 2013, 1,000 had gone on to commit additional crimes including, terroristic threats, lewd acts with a minor, various types of assault, DUI, robbery, hit-and-run, gang activity, rape, and child cruelty.

“The Obama Administration claims that it is using ‘prosecutorial discretion’ to prioritize the removal of criminal aliens from this country. But this report shows the disturbing truth: 1,000 undocumented aliens previously convicted of crimes who the Administration released in 2013 have gone on to commit further crimes in our communities,” Grassley said in January.

In 2014 the administration released another 30,558 criminal immigrants, who had a total of 79,059 convictions.

The convictions included in the 2014 releases included: 86 homicide convictions, 186 kidnapping convictions, 373 sexual assault convictions, 449 commercialized sexual offenses, 1,194 battery convictions, 1,346 domestic violence convictions, and 13,636 DUIs.

“When aliens released onto the streets go on to commit additional crimes yet could have been placed in ICE custody, this Administration is responsible. From January 1, 2014 to September 30, 2014, over 10,000 detainers were not honored,” House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) said in April. “The recidivism rate for these aliens was 29 percent. Innocent citizens and law enforcement officers could be injured, maimed, or murdered due to a detainer not being issued or honored because of this Administration’s policies.”

“The Administration is responsible and will be held accountable,” he added.

Often the administration has pointed to the Supreme Court decision in Zadvydas v. Davis — preventing indefinite detention of immigrants facing deportation, most often when the immigrant’s home country will not take them back. However in recent months lawmakers have chipped away at that response.

In April the House Judiciary Committee revealed that of the 30,558 released criminal immigrants in 2014 just 2,457 were released due to Zadvydas or about eight percent.

In May the Obama administration revealed to the Senate Judiciary Committee that between 2010 and 2014, 121 convicted criminal immigrants with final orders of deportation were never removed and now face murder charges.

“Of these 121 individuals who were bonded out, 33 were released on a bond set by [The Department of Justice’s Executive Office for Immigration Review] and 24 were released pursuant to the Supreme Court decision in Zadvydas v. Davis,” ICE revealed in a released letter to Senate Judiciary Chairman Grassley.

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If you make the punishment for knowingly hiring an illegal alien so harsh, such as forfeiture of your business, it would make the risk of doing so unacceptable for that business. There's already the E-Verify process that is supposed to verify the person is here legally, mandate and enforce it's use by all businesses. If found to be circumventing the process, seize the business and jail the owners for 25 years with the sodomites at that facility. There also has to be some sort of punishment for Mexico for not enforcing their own southern boarder.

Nothing is 100% perfect, but a combination of border enforcement, making the punishment for hiring of illegals severe and reforming our immigration process so those that seek the ability to legally work on a visa more streamlined and less obstructive is a start. Doing nothing is not a policy.

So much for capitalism in American... Forfeiture of business? Extremes.

i've noticed a trend. those on here arguing for less government, seem to advocate for more in every thread.

I enjoy the irony that a communist (me) is defending capitalism from Republicans.

Isn't one of the things we all want is for people to position themselves on issues, based on their own ideals, and not that of towing a party line?

Which is why I never liked the you're a Republican, you're a Democrat arguments. Myself, I sometimes align more with conservative side of an issue, and others I am more liberal side. Each issue is separate and deserves a solution that is not defined by a party line ideal.

When you phrase it like that then yes. However, being consistent in thought while maintaining the ability to think independently is a much better trait.

But, these are axioms that do not represent the situation that we are talking about.

Here's the funniest part of all about your post. You conveniently dismissed the rest of my post.



Odd how that worked out isn't it?

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They're just following in the footsteps of their ideological hero, Ronald Reagan. I'm surprised they aren't advocating amnesty, too.

I guess Trump may have been right after all.

“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
-Ronald Reagan

You mean the Donald Trump that had his company hire illegal immigrants to work on his building projects.

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