DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Brown's Future...

I'll be open and honest, Ravens acquiring Perrimen and IMO, the best TE in draft in Williams, is very concerning...

Perriman isn't better than Torrey Smith, who they lost, so in my eyes, that's a wash. Getting Maxx Williams and Carl Davis late in the 2nd and 3rd rounds was huge for them though, IMO. On the other hand, Carl Davis is taking Ngata's spot on the roster, so how much better did they get there?

Well thank you very much. I too don't think someone should say hey we suck or we are great without reason. Its about a lame a post as you can make.

In order to learn or look at something from another angle you have to have ying and yang. So while people often become frustrated with something they view as negative it would be boring to have us all think and react a like. I used to go toe to toe with spirit (I miss the guy) but I respected him and would often take up his defense when people would accuse him of being a troll.

I'm not nearly as negative as you may think, and I don't use all my ammo on these guys, if I did I feel certain they would switch sides and come over to the dark side with me then I would have to be Mr Positive...

I'll leave that up to others to do.

It wasn't a trick question, but you can't have a comprehensive prediction on wins without including that information.

I really don't know that I believe that.

It sounds counter-intuitive, but if you play well then you can win games, no matter who you play. If our defense improves, as I expect it to, and if our OL/run game improves as I expect it to, then we will win games. If we do so really well, we will win a lot of games.

Now you're just being difficult.

If our defense and running game improved and Cincy signed Luck, we wouldn't stand a chance.

Which is why I agree with your premise. It's not as if all the other 31 teams didn't have a draft and a FA signing period to get better as well. I believe to make a rational call, all of our opponents off seasons would have to be accounted for as well to know, or at least have a valid opinion of, in order to know where we stack up.

It's not as if we were the only team that worked on improving our roster.

I am being serious.

A team can beat a superior team if they play correctly. We have done so at times in the past. We just haven't been able to put it all together consistently. This team has enough talent in key spots (minus the QB spot, obviously) to be a real problem for most teams. The defense could well take a step to elite status.

As far as Luck .... we had him beat in the game last year until we imploded. As far as Luck and Cincy ... most teams that signed him would be massively improved ... but that still would only be one or 2 games out of 16.

I firmly believe that we were on the right path last year, and that we will be heavily improved this year .... so that should equate to a better record. (even if some other teams improve)

If you're saying it wouldn't be logical for an inferior team to beat better teams consistently, that makes perfect sense and I must agree.

The last time we won a championship we beat what everybody else thought was a superior team. One of the best games this franchise ever played IMO.

Sure you can. We all do it every year when the prediction thread starts up. Some people just put up their predicted record, others break down the games they think will be W's and L's, others provide a little bit of reason as to why we get the W or L.

And let's be fair, most people who are predicting 5-11 or worse, are basing that prediction not so much on other teams getting better, but typically what they feel our team is lacking.

Now if Ytown was predicting we take the division and make a playoff run, I think it would be fair to ask for a little more reasoning as to why he thinks we'd finally come out on top of the division, but I just don't think predicting a near .500 record based on what we do have is all that audacious. JMO though!

Easy Dub or you'll be viewed as negative. Let Y enjoy the moment it will soon pass and reality will once again slap him in the jaw.

j/c here

I think we should fully expect Shelton to start/contribute from day 1 ... if he doesn't, that's a bad sign

I also have a hunch about Duke Johnson and Xavier Cooper ... think they'll both contribute

Outside of those 3, the rest are future hopefuls

It is unrealistic to expect that ALL of the draft picks will be solid contributors in their rookie seasons. Possibly not all even make the roster; maybe some on the practice squad. But I do believe that a few will improve each game as they gain experience and that they notably improve our team. YTown is not wrong; he may be slightly premature in his expectations. Don't ever change though, YTown; you will be proven correct...

Its all about competition at every position. This is the deepest team we have fielded period. I think top to bottom we have a roster that can compete with anyone. We have some young guys that can hopefully contribute early but its not gonna be easy for any of them to see the field.

Duke competing with West and Crow for time I love all 3

We have Erving fighting with Grecco, man thats gonna be a hell of a battle for RG

We have Gabriel competing for one of those starting receiver spots against Hartline and Bowe.

Orchard fighting with Armonty and Mingo is also one i am interested in although its more questions of how good are these kids to begin with.

Tramon, Gilbert Desir all fighting for the #2 corner

Everywhere on the DL is a fight and there is gonna be some good players not make the team. I really have no idea who will be our best unit out of this group.

Most of our camp battles historically have been between he sucks but he sucks more (see Johnny and Hoyer in TC last year)

The fact Shaw looked better last year does mean absolutely nothing. Johnny is a better QB prospect than Shaw. Shaw is tough gritty and I have no problem having him as the 3rd guy but his skill set is just limited.

I am not going to quote your entire response ..... but let's look at what we got out of young players (drafted and UDFA) last year:

Manziel: Nothing
Gabriel: Very little/close to nothing
Bitonio: Excellent Guard play, especially for a rookie 16 game quality starter
Kirksey: Split starter duties, effective rookie ILB. 81 tackles, 2 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 1 forced fumble.
West: 673 yards, 3.9/carry, 4 TD, 1 fumble lost
Desir: Played 2 games. Was seen as a developmental gut entering the league. Played well at the end of the season.

Then we also added players in UDFA:

Crowell: 607 yards rushing, 4.1 yards/rush, 8 TD, 2 fumbles lost
Gabriel: 621 yards receiving, 17.3 yards/catch, 1 TD, 26 1st downs on 36 catches.
K'Waun Williams: Effective as a 3rd down/slot DB


So we added 6 players last year who helped this team a great deal. This year I am also looking for 6 drafted players, who seem to have specific skills that will plug holes on this team, to also step up and fill those holes.

What are those holes?

I am looking for a kid who was drafted to be able to be our FB. In college he was used in the kinds of roles we will use him in here. He will not have to learn to be a square peg in a round hole.

I expect Erving to be an upgrade, essentially, over McDonald and Seymour. I see no reason why a 1st rounder would not be. Even if he doesn't start right away, he improves depth. Depth is important, as we saw last year. Is this really a stretch?

I expect Duke to be a guy whose skills can be utilized as a receiver out of the backfield. This is something we really missed last year. I think that he could be a 25-40 catch guy. I don't think that this is that much of a stretch, given his track record in college. Last year he caught 38 passes for 421 yards. He has the hands to be a weapon. Why wouldn't I think that he adds this dimension to our offense? Combined with West and Crowell, I think that this group could be special.

Shelton was a force stopping the run in college, so why wouldn't I expect him to be one here? I think that he is going to help our defense immensely.

I really like what I hear about Cooper. People consistently talk about his 1st step. This was the big news all throughout the OTAs and minicamp. You can teach a lot of things, but a great 1st step really can't be learned. It can be improved, but there has to be something to work with. Cooper has what seems to be an elite aspect to start with. I can see the Browns putting him in specific situations that allow him to get one on one, and get after the QB.

Orchard was a pass rushing demon in college. I like the idea of him and Kruger at OLB, with our DL maybe with Shelton, Cooper, and Bryant or Starks, all coming after the QB. This team now has the depth to do many of the things Pettine likes to do with his DL.

Gilbert is an "IF", as he has to show why he was drafted where he was. He has the talent and ability. Hopefully working with Haden will show him how to be a pro. However, even if he can only be a slot/extra DB, he will be a huge help for us.

I see nothing that is shocking in any of my projection.

Last year we got below average QB play, and up and down performance at RB, and when the defense learned the schemes well enough for them to be second nature, injuries hit. This year we start with the 2nd year in the defensive system. We were top 10 in scoring defense last year. I see no reason why we can't be an elite defense this year. We will have more players who fit the scheme, and the rare happy side effects that comes with having the same coaches on defense for 2 seasons in a row.

This is a solid post in my eyes. I agree, nothing in your predictions is a slap in the face,unbelievable or far out.

Especially the comment about the outside backs in Kruger and Nate, because if Cooper/Shelton/etc on the dine can snatch away a qbs ability to step up, with two edge rushers who will be collapsing the edge, it's going to get a little iffy there for opposing qbs including the element of a secondary who won't allow people to get open.

Could be fun to watch,very fun...

Good post.

I see nothing shocking in your projections either. Just full of high hopes.

We all want our drafted players to translate their college game to the NFL. That's why we draft them over others. But that transition is not always as smooth as what we hoped it to be.

West and Crow did fine in their rookie seasons and got a lot of playing time. But their competition was nobody. We had no RBs before drafting them and signing Tate. With Tate flaking-out that left those two to get all the carries.

Playing time won't be so available for some of our newly drafted players. Especially on defense. They will have to compete with guys who did a pretty good job on defense last year, as has been established. Maybe they'll excel. Maybe they'll find the competion very tough. As you said, just as the defense was beginning to ripen they suffered a lot of injuries. Still, they continued to improve.

Those are the guys who our defensive draft picks are going to have to compete with for playing time. Maybe our new guys won't get the opportunities for reps as did West & Crow who had no competition for reps.



Many have expressed the opinion that we have the best roster talent, even depth at some positions, than we've had since our return. If true, that's a tough nut to crack for playing time.

That's the sort of thing I'm looking at when I wonder how much our new picks will be able to contribute.

I'm not looking at OTA reports on new players in a vacuum. This guy is doing this. That guy is doing that. It's all well and good competing without pads, basically walk-throughs, as we get into training camp I think we'll see a more concrete, realistic view of these guys.

More than anybody, maybe even more than you, I hope your projections are valid. We, as a team and as fans need it.

Wonder if that has anything to do w/your being the author of your post?


--DeSir played well? When? His best game was a game he gave up numerous receptions and this is astounding....SIX of the them went for first downs. That is playing well? LOL


--Ordhard's sacks were attributed mostly to scheme and many came late because of excellent secondary play.

--Duke was banged up a great deal in college. Slight frame. This is the big leagues.

--I posted scouting reports of M. Johnson on here. He is seen as an H-back, not a FB.

--Gilbert sucked last year.

--Shelton was a force in college? Yeah, so were many guys, including your beloved Weeden. How did that crusade work out for you?

--Yes, we had below average qb play last season, however, in many of our wins, good qb play helped us win. Getting rid of the ball on time is huge. Making quick reads is huge. Being accurate on many of those routes were huge. I think people on this board either act like Hoyer was great or he sucked all year. No way do we reach seven wins w/out him playing well in many of those early wins. McCown holds the ball too long. He is a career loser, who has only reached a 75 or plus QB Rating ONCE in his career.

I respect your opinion. I am not going to go crazy on you like many do on me for voicing your opinion. I just disagree w/your opinion. I hope you are right. I will even admit to it afterwards. We've been through this before.......will you reciprocate? LOL........I think we know the answer to that...

I'll state the obvious that as the talent level improves on our team, it gets more difficult to crack the lineup. Not all drafted players will make the roster. That's when you know that you have finally "arrived"...

I think we will know we have finally arrived when we start having a winning record, making the playoffs a few times, and actually winning some playoff games.

Until then, it's just hopeful rhetoric. As Emily Dickinson said: "Hope is the Thing with Feathers."

I have never been afraid to admit when I have been wrong.

I have said that I was wrong about Weeden, for example, probably 100 times. I have also explained why I prefered Weeden .... largely in that he was not Colt McCoy, who had completely lost my confidence.

I was WRONG about Johnny Football that is fo sho!!...

He was gonna wreck the league...

Not holding out much hope it changes.

The way I see it is the only position group that may have declined over last season is TE, and even that is questionable since JC missed a large portion of the season.

Another question is at QB. At least as I see it, that is a wash at worst. Every other position group is improved

I also think our coaching staff is improved. I am not going to bash any of the guys who left, but it is clear there was at least some friction no matter how or where it started. I think the new QB coach and OC are going to blend in well and we will see improvements in the O.

Don't forget about Scott Solomom as he may see more playing time than any of the other guys.

Certainly the cohesiveness of the staff. The only concern is the lack of experience which may (or may not!) manifest itself early but should improve as the season progresses...

I think you need to familiarize yourself with their body of work then get back to us on whether they are an upgrade.

Past failure is not the end for any player or coach, let me say that right out of the gate.

There are lots of things that go into success and failure outside just stats. But what it does do is it gives you a window into who the player or the coach for that matter are. The longer the record the bigger the window.

McCown has a huge window, Flip not so much but neither has had any sort of sustained success. Again that doesn't mean it was entirely their fault they failed because so many things are beyond a player and coaches control. I get it. McCown not so much after 12 years he is his record.

In the case of Peen I think he reads one of the fluff pieces based on Flips press conferences and does the Nestea plunge for the guy. I put far more weight and stock in the product then I do the talk about the product. Flip's track record as limited as it is isn't great. But I have been very quiet about the guy because he does deserve a chance. I question his judgement because I think McCown is a huge mistake and I think it is his mistake (McCown).

Nothing wrong with him picking his guy (McCown), it takes real guts to bank your future on McCown, and In my mind he has done just that. Lets put it this way if McCown falls on his face Flip will be in my gun sights, more so then Text or Pet. This was his choice I think he blew it.

But beyond that I have said little about the guy in fact this is the MOST I have ever said, but based on his record to date and if I had to critique the guy. He isn't so hot a choice and I sure wouldn't go bonkers over him being here like Peen seems to be doing.

BTW How is the Dog?

Oooo ...sckeeered I'm sure

After 12 years at the QB position, McCown has defined himself for anyone willing to look at it.

So sorry to hear that Tab.

I bet after 19 years wow. I had a cat for 18 years and man I cried like baby...

Give all my best....You too...