DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh McCown...

good point mac ... I vividly remember analysts saying that McCown loves tall WRs (in Chicago he had Marshall/Jeffrey and in TB he had VJax/Evans) ... which probably explains why we felt it necessary to snag Bowe and Mayle in the draft ... HOWEVER, I do think more INTs is a very realistic expectation as you said

53 percent complete, less than 250 yards per start, 11 td's and 14 ints.

Those stats are abysmal, horrible.

I hope he doesn't play that bad this year.

I have to believe an abysmal o-line and no OC may have something to do with those numbers. I'm very optimistic about his chances this year, and yes, I know, it's taboo to think that way.

mac, in your film watching, where did pressure come, when it did, up the middle, ends, or both?

In McCown's defense, he had no help from any run game. Josh will never win throwing. His success relies totally on balance with up tempo. I'm not saying McCown is equal, but Sipe worked very well in this scheme. Nothing brilliant athletically but he put constant pressure using all the tools in the toolbox.

For those of you who are qb experts, how does he stack up compared to hoyer

How about 53% completion, 255 yards/start, 12 TD and 13 INT?

well thats getting better.

Hoyer 7-6

McCown 1-10

so then could you explain why we gave McCown more money to replace Hoyer?

Teddy Bridgewater 6-6 does that mean Hoyer is better than Teddy using your guidelines?

I dunno, McCown wouldn't pull a Seneca Wallance and not help Johnny Manziel?

In all seriousness, I am personally exhausted with all of this McCown v Hoyer talk. Both QBs aren't getting us to the next level and are pretty much a wash. I won't pull a Versatile Dog and tell people to "shut up" because I don't like a post/topic, but this debate is getting more than old.

I do recall, and I cannot quote whether it was Pettine or McCown, but the theme was centered around a willingness for the QB signing at the time to know the role and to help out wherever needed. Starting, playing backup...whatever, McCown was going to do his part. Maybe (if those were McCown's words) its just a phrase to get a contract to stay in the league. Maybe if Pettine said that, it's simply coach speak. I don't know.

But it's a different tone altogether with Hoyer. He wanted the starting job. He believe he is capable of leading a team. I respect the fact he wants to be the guy. I just don't think he is.

Again, with Hoyer/McCown we have two QBs who are essentially a wash for me. Neither have long term, starter potential. On the surface one QB was willing to help/train the younger. The other QB was not and more focused on being THE MAN.

Neither is wrong, I guess.

its how well he takes care of the ball.

Gotta love 4 clips that don't even equate to one minute and try to encapsulate a player. I'm sure we can find the same amount for most other QBs.

Oustide of your second "clip", that 0-line looked horrible. Not saying that pardons McCown, but let's get real.

Correction: The line didn't look that good in the second clip either.

Man that o-line was horrible. Dang rusher was getting to Josh almost as fast as the ball was getting snapped. I wonder if he will settle down behind a line that is able to give him a few seconds.

The O-line could be a factor in the high throws. It's hard to follow through when you are worried about breaking a thumb on a helmet. I really don't know what we are gonna get with McCown.

Josh McCown = Brandon Weeden 2.0.

They call him Flipper...Flipper...

It's pretty simple, don't read the posts about McCown/Hoyer. Nobody really cares if you are exhausted or think the discussions are getting old. This may be a revelation to you, but the world doesn't revolve around you.

So basically you just told him to "shut up" because you didn't like his post/topic... you just used more words than he did. Nice. I understand your point though, if Memphis is Ms. Cleo enough to know that you are going to tell him to shut up, he ought to be psychic enough to know that a post contains more rehashed McCown vs. Hoyer dribble before he gets a chance to actually read it.

This season? "Throw low!"

Two straight days of trolling. Good for you!!

Oh, I get to use my Plain Dealer picture again. Yippie!

Lest we forget:



Man, it got just awful with him. I used to yell 'n' curse at my TV so many times during those games. THROW THE BALL! THROW THE BALL!

Okay, sorry! Back to McCown.

Seems to me that you mentioned my name first. The crazy thing is that you butchered the meaning of my words.

Look, this is a message board. People discuss various topics. No one is saying you have to like each topic, but what gives you the right to tell others what they can discuss or not discuss? Who the hell are you?

It's simple, if you don't like the topic.........don't read it. There are plenty of topics I don't wish to read. For example, threads about soccer. I don't read them. I surely don't go on that thread and bash people for talking about soccer. I don't say "shut-up, soccer is a stupid subject," as you implied. It is their right to discuss soccer if they so choose. I simply do not read--or comment about it.

Again, no one really cares if this particular subject exhausts you or if you think it is getting old. People do not need permission from you to talk about subjects that they care about and they certainly don't need to hear your whining about it. If you don't like the topic, don't read it.

and this quote by Memphis:



I am not sure I get this line of thinking. I posted McCown's stats on another thread. It's not like we only have to use a few clips to evaluate him. It's not like he hasn't played behind other o-lines in the past. This will be his 13th year of playing in the NFL.

Here are some of the things I remember.

--He was actually out of football for a year, as in, no team wanted him.

--He has only had a rating of 75 or better once in his career.

--He has been named the starter 3 times in his career. He threw 32 TDs and 35 Interceptions in those three years.

--He is known for holding the ball too long and then making poor decisions when pressured.

--He is 36 years old.

--He had one year out of 12 when he played well, but even in that year, in which he was blessed w/a great RB and outstanding receivers, he lost more games than he won.

Thus, I think we don't need to rely on a few clips or wonder about how he will do w/a different OL because we can look at his extensive history and evaluate the whole, rather than just a few clips.

And that history screams of ineptitude.

Did I tell others what they can or cannot discuss? Where is that exactly? Looks like you're the one butchering words. I said the conversation is about the two QBs is exhausting....and it is. Please take your own advice and move along if it is a comment you do not like.

And you told someone to shut up. No butchering words there. Don't back track now. Own up to it.

One more thing-- Why do you feel the constant need to blatantly lie and make up stuff about what posters say? You do it to everyone, get called on it ALL THE TIME, and never back it up. Please stop. You're only adding to the foolishness you already exhibit with your numerous suspensions.

Now that's funny right there.

Hey - call me a homer or whatever you like, coz I don't give a ratz patootie ! - I am of the opinion McCown will play towards the best of the ability he has shown in his time in the NFL and not the worst. And that is because I have faith in our running game being above average and our OL.... and I am also feeling good about our OC. I also think that our slot WR (Hawkins) is among the elite slot guys in the NFL. I think Gabriel could have a breakout year .... I think Hartline will be solid - and I am hoping Bowe is not washed up (of all the WR's I have the least faith in Bowe).

SO ... instead of crying about our team and heaping misery upon misery - crack open a drink, grab some pom-poms and lets all do a dance about our improved 2015/2016 Browns. . . . and while we are at it lets toast our text gate GM mastermind Farmer who is undoubtedly putting an awesome team together. Rah rah rah.

I would feel better about our QB position if we had traded for Mike Glennon. He may not be great but I think he can be a Flacco and at this point that would push us into the playoffs.

mac - I know you wanted to keep Hoyer (well I believe that's what you have posted).

It's your prerogative to examine statistics ad infinitum ... but I don't think it makes a difference with where we are at now. It's real simple - Hoyer is with the Texans. I wish him well. I hope that the spectacularly awful play from much of the second half of last season was a result of him wearing down after he pushed himself so hard to come back from the injury he sustained vs the Bills. My heart and gut says otherwise - we will all soon know.

McCown is a Brown - and none of his previous stats on any team or period of time are conclusive of how he will play for the Browns. He's probably not going to be as good as some of the games he played for Chicago - and he probably won't be as bad as last year with an awful Tampa team. . . . and while you are free to do it - I don't understand the relevance of any of that now. Just like someone saying we should have traded for Cousins, or Glennon or Brady ... those "we should have" speculations are completely redundant. Not only do we not know if we could have, if we tried, what the cost would have been (Sam Bradford for two first rounders?!! No thanks) we don't know if the Browns tried or didn't try and who was on their radar .... What we do know is McCown is a Brown and not very far into the future we'll be able to say [1] He played better than Hoyer did last year (and maybe this year for Houston) [2] He played about the same [3] He played worse than Hoyer. . . .

How many times he fumbled, didn't fumble, threw the ball away, threw it high, had it batted, not batted, completions off play action, incompletions off play action, etc ... all on different teams under completely different circumstances ... can help you form your opinion, but they don't prove one thing or another.

As I stated - I believe he'll play towards the high end of what he's shown he is capable of. It seems you think he'll play like a total bum. That's fine - and soon we will know. I can (again) state what I would have wished for this off season but it won't change anything. I can tell you why I wanted who I wanted. But it won't change anything. . . .

An easier bottom line we might be able to agree on - average play out of the Browns QB will see the Browns be in virtually every game with a better than average chance to win. . . . we don't have to agree on the likelihood of that, but do you agree to that premise?

I hope McCown does great don't get me wrong and if Hoyer were here I would hope for the same but can someone explain how a QB is expected to throw well to guys like Gabriel and Hawkins when he was constantly overthrowing 6-5 guys? I know we have a better O-line than TB but if he can't throw with some pressure in his face we are in trouble. Also sometimes the QB can make the O-line as well. Remember when Weeden was at QB it was sack city and our O-line was getting a bad rap. Then Hoyer steps in and the ball came out quickly and on time. Big difference. I haven't seen much of McCown to comment but the rumblings sound like he's more like Weeden yhan a bigger more accurate version of Hoyer.

Come on, guys! What's up with all the negativity? With McCown as our starter and Manziel as our backup, what could possibly go wrong?

That's why he's a journeyman. Some day the Browns will figure out that this is not the road to successful QB play.

I said this when people were talking about us getting a QB, pre McCown.

At least he is young with some upside.

Looks like Tampa Bay figured that one out too.

mac, stop posting relevant stats. They don't mean anything at all. We can make better predictions by using scientific evidence, such as "I believe he will play well..."