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Let me ask you this do you think the Browns had a good defense last year?

I agree with you Mourg. I don't know what Gilberts problem was/is he seemed to respond and showed flashes to how truly talented he is at the close of the season. Whatever his problem it sure isn't physical that kid has mad tools.

Let me say this if he plays like he can teams will be going after Haden, he has that much potential. If he shows up and plays close to his ability he can effect every part of this defense.

I agree about Shelton if he can get a push in the middle he will be huge for us. If he is just real good he will make the guys around him better, I think I said that before.

I love this defense I really do, but this defense isn't going to make up for what McCown will do to this team. Someone said it earlier in this thread Johnny could be a huge key as unlikely as i believe that to be, if he can somehow get it together on the field and make it so we don't have to watch Train Wreck McCown play it would set this team up to actually win some games.

As much as anything I see the defense and O Line going to waste becuase of the QB situation you just can't minimize the QB, not in 2015. AND that IS NOT my Opinion...

Good, yes. Elite? No. Too much yards given up to other team's running backs.

There a reason Jimmy O'Neil preaching "stop the run and EARN the right to rush" this season.

It's really not funny. IMO the 2014 Oline had major issues. Now if Mack isn't 100% or is re-injured, and our rookie isn't 100% ready for prime time, we'll be in pretty much the same place.....Last in the AFC North.

So I'm going to say our O-line needs to show up big this year, all of them, not just one or two.

IMO, the most pressure is on the offensive line. We have no qbs we are sold on or feel totally comfortable with, so it's ground and pound is our means of sinking or swimming.

I want to see mingo show up just so we can see it

Shelton needs to be a big difference for us, and so do our vet wrs I think

I have to agree. This is the NFL. The QB position is the key to it all. Just the fact that our HC made such a statement tells me pretty much all I need to know about their confidence in the players we have at the position. It's a heads up to the fans about what to "not expect".

Well the fact that you thought or think the defense was good has to revolve around their ability to stop the pass cause it sure isn't because they stopped the run.

Jimmy O'Neil can say whatever he wants to a big part of the reason we failed so badly in stopping the run was because he was constantly crashing the IOLB into the O Line trying to get pressure. When they lost contain they got burned. This defense is set up and schemed to stop the pass 1st as it should be IMO.

The run hurts you the pass kills ya.

The simple way to think about this is whats a great day for a RB and what is a great day throwing? Assuming you have to be vulnerable somewhere, where is that place.

A great day running the ball will hurt you a great day throwing the ball will kill you dead. It really is that simple. From there you build and scheme your defense.

Even you can't say that with a straight face.....

Dansby.

We need leadership and production from him, and there is no adequate replacement in the LB position group. The D will go as far as he can take them.

GO BROWNS!

If our oline doesn't show up it won't matter. Protecting the QB will be the key to success this year, or really any year.

Seems little enough point in replying to you if all you want to do is take any reply and take it out of context !! lmao - and I think your one of those in the "in crowd" that "talk football" !!

They didn't really need to stop the pass much due to the fact teams were gaining chunk plays via the run and it was no secret. Skrine, Haden and Gipson and Donte in the back proved to be a dangerous secondary for passing downs. I do get your post though, and I do agree with it.

In any case, I feel both you and I could agree that going into this season, the "#1 concern to address/fix" is stopping the run, as we likely already have the elements to make passing on us difficult.

Then we leave an offense with no options other than getting bruised up and beaten...

Entire defensive front 7. They get pressure, the secondary will make plays.

Offensively, front line, and the RB's... I hope Crowell and co. set the tone of the offense with hard runs avg. 3.5+ yards a carry.

Who needs to step up? The offensive minds need to find a way to get more touchdown passes to the receivers. The Browns were worst in that category in 2014 I think.

18+ points per game. If the Browns are going to be contenders, in any way, they are going to have to increase that to around 23 points per game. That increase is going to have to come from upgrades somewhere.

Can anyone argue that this offseason the team has made strides to where the average observer can reasonably believe the team can expect to be scoring more points, 7 more points, per game; and if so what strides, what upgrades?

So, find a way to get it to Travis Benjamin more, Get it to Vince Mayle, or find a way to get Hawkins down the field instead of matriculating mid-field shallow grabs. Find a way to actually get chemistry out of Duane Bowe in his first year as a Brown, or find any way to get touchdown passes to the wideouts.

Touchdowns to Wr's, that is where they need to step up.

Good point.... We seem to never push the ball down the field to stretch the d ... At least compared to other teams

When the play action was alive, we were... just Hoyer either had too much, or more often not enough, on the ball to fully capitalize on them. If we can get the same effect, let's just hope McCown can be at least more accurate on them wide open deep balls.

I don't know if McCown will do any better, but it did get really frustrating seeing Travis Benjamin have two steps on a DB only to watch Hoyer vastly under throw the ball. Happened a few times against Baltimore, and at least twice against Carolina.

I would just do it. Take the shots down field. Josh has a stronger arm than BH. What do we have to lose? It will stretch the field and if we can connect on a few it will open things up for our running game which should be better anyway. JMO

Wasn't Josh's strength with the Bears his ability to push the ball down the field? (granted that was with Marshall and Jeffrey)

It gets aggravating to see us play in an invisible 10 yard box ... and the defenses just sit on the sticks

I have to question that!

...and hopefully January also...

Yup,, it will get answered, if I am wrong, I'll let you know.

LOL,, what I meant was if McCown proves me wrong, I'll say so....

We threw downfield more than almost any team in the league. At one point, Hoyer was leading the league in yds. per pass attempt and there were articles about how he was leading the league in deep completions.

It was kinda funny because those of us who watched the games knew he lobbed many of them up there and missed many other deep attempts.

Look, I back Hoyer because too many people simply dismiss his contributions, but throwing deep was not his strength.

We completed so many deep passes because our scheme, route trees, and play design were simply brilliant. I realize that most of you will never admit to that because it speaks to a huge loss that we have to endure and how so many of you have painted our former OC in a negative light, but it is what it is and I'll never change my opinion on that one because I know offensive design and that is the best I've seen in regards to the Browns. And if you remember correctly, I wasn't keen on the Shanny hire, but he won me over because he was like a freaking genius w/his designs.

Vers Dog, Shanny didn't want to be here, JMHO, don't let the door hit you in ass as you leave, Deflip/any O coordinator can copy others schemes, it's done all the time.
Your pick- Gilbert is solid one, also like Sheldon, McCown, etc...all good reasons and picks...if I have only one pick it is McCown-it's a QB league now, for sure, and he has to be like Chicago time/ not Tampa time...I hope our hearts are solid because I see Cardiac Kids II big time...don't know what our record will be, but the games will be tight, ever single one.....we need health...and some luck.....GO Browns!!!!

That wasn't my argument.

I was arguing the fact that someone said that we never threw deep and another poster agreed w/that sentiment. We threw deep a ton last year, more than I have ever seen except for the 2007 year w/DA. Hoyer does not have DA's arm.

Glad you are so confident about the door and Shanny's butt.............but, we'll see how that plays out. I think many of you are in for a rude awakening.

Considering Deflippo has never been a OC, and we have not 1 legitimate QB, that has rude awakening written all over it!

I have this gut feeling that Dray and Barnidge are going to have a lot on their shoulders this season. I know the general thinking is that unless you have a guy like Graham, Gronk, or Cameron your TE's suck. I tend to disagree. I think we're mostly turning the clock back a tad in what the role of our TE's is going to be. With all this emphasis on the run game, I think we'll be turning it back about a decade, where your TE was still expected to be able to block, but was also able to make clutch catches. Think more like a Steve Heiden, but a touch more involved in the passing game.

While my highest expectations for McCown is to have an average season, and I think Flip has the best of intentions, I fully expect there to be a bugs in our offense. Its going to be guys like Dray and Barnidge that will be crucial in extending drives and bailing out the QB.

I think they will be our regulars, and Housler will be a change of pace type of guy.

That is absolutely correct Vers. I'm not sure how the season ended but at mid season Hoyer had the league lead in yards per completion, at just under 15 YPC, that is a fact.

But people will slam Hoyer for his completion percentage and fail to realize that he wasn't dink and dunking and if you have a handle on the game you understand that percentages drop when YPC goes up.



Very frustrating to try to have an intelligent conversation with people when they fail to recognize whats happening right in front of their faces.



No it was and is NOT, and that goes right to what I have been saying about Hoyer for some time. In fact I said it coming out of camp last year, this offense wasn't geared to his strengths, but he somehow made it work.



I agree and I disagree, if that makes sense. It worked early but not so much late. There were a bunch of factors involved and that makes it tough to put your finger on one thing and say this is the cause.

I have this image in my head of us running these naked boot legs to the back side of the ZBS and early on you would see the OLBers on the opposing teams crashing the backside of the play, then later in the year you would see those same OLB just stand and wait. What that did was it meant no backside running lane and it also meant that the PA backside roll out was going to have that same OLB in hot pursuit of Hoyer when he finally got turned 360 and was back facing the LOS.

What I found frustrating was we never countered that adjustment, but instead continued to run the backside roll outs. As brilliant as the design was Shanny (unlike his dad) never used that against the D. Maybe drop a short pass in just over the OLB or actually roll to the side of the blocking and run some crossing routes.




I think Shanny was pretty good as in not great he sure didn't make adjustments but his scheme was pretty good he just needed to build off of the adjustments made to his scheme and he never did IMO. Everything he did was built off of gaining time to get receivers more time to get open. I think that was a huge part of the reason our undersized receivers were able to get so open many times.

But back to where I started so to speak. I can't pin it down to who or what was at fault for our failings later in the year the convenient thing is to blame Hoyer and wash your hands of the entire thing. But its deeper then that.


Even when the run game was horrid Shanny was stubborn with that he would stick to the run when it didn't work early in the year and be rewarded later in the game with success. Maybe it worked early in the year because we would be down and teams just believed that we would have to throw more, once a pattern of sticking to the run no matter what developed teams simply stuck with stopping the run?

Early in the year the PA roll outs just killed teams but when they started holding back the backside OLB and Hoyer had a LB coming unblocked into his face he simply couldn't handle it. Then you simply have to factor in Gordon, Hoyer didn't trust him and that meant holding the ball or waiting to see if Gordon would run the correct route instead of letting it fly. When Gordon ran the wrong route and because Hoyer was set to toss the ball to him and factor in the OLB coming in on him he just wasn't able to reset his feet (poor mechanics) and his throws looked horrid.

I know this though Hoyer knew the offense and he knew his reads and where he was suppose to go with the ball based on those reads. Those are all things I feel 100% confident in. Something happened and it wasn't as simple as it was all Hoyers fault like most of the same people who are saying we never go deep with the ball. They simply go based on their perception and never go beyond that and it makes it tough to have meaningful dialogue.

BTTB, a lot of this came about when defenses forced pressure up the middle. It took away the cut back lanes on run plays. It forced Hoyer to one side of the field. With his weak, said loosely, arm it greatly reduced his effectiveness.

That isn't how I remember it at ALL. I hated Hoyer in those roll outs it killed his greatest asset rhythm. I understood Shanny's offense it was about giving receivers more time to get open. It will be interesting to see how these guys do with Flip.

I ain't no revisionist either I said it from the break of camp last year.

Well, one guy who absolutely must show up (and first) is the guy with the keys to the building. We really need that guy to show every single day.