DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Brown's Future...

I think what he is trying to say and you are avoiding via your posts is that opinion needs to be born from fact.

You on the other hand think opinion should be anything you feel like saying whether there so much as a thread of proof or logic for you to make or stake your claim.

Opinion IMO (LOL) should be more like conclusions based on something with logic and fact to support it with.

From what I have seen and read you got NOTHING...

Maybe he is basing his opinion on the fact we have a top 3 OL and we added another 1st rounder to the mix. Maybe he is basing it on the fact that we have a top 5 secondary and our main focus on this years draft was strengthening our defense while our #8 overall spent the offseason getting himself right for this year.

We have our young stable of backs and added more weapons to the passing game. Now his opinion may be that Hoyer sucked ass and McCown while sucks may suck a little less and maybe he thinks Johnny is more than 7 quarters of football.

Personally, I think both Hoyer and McCown sucks but McCown has been there to help Johnny become a pro QB and to help this locker heal.

j/c:

Did someone say Timid played well from start to finish during a season? LOL

peen, I state my opinions as opinions. I think it's hard to say that McCown is better than Hoyer. That is my opinion.

The other two statements that you made were not even logical opinions, nevermind factual.

O'Connnell has not even been an QB coach before.

Flip hasn't been an OC before. Shanny had problems w/the FO, not the coaching staff and players.

If you were speaking of me, I said that, IIRC, he was the last QB tio start and finish the same season.

I also am anxious to see McCown play. I trust that he will do well. We have seen Hoyer's level of play; likely somewhere in between the two halves of last season.

I stand corrected. I thought you said played "well" from start to finish. My apologies.

No injuries is wishful thinking. Top 3 defense is debatable because the offense may not help them.

Yeah, doesn't matter how elite you are, if you're constantly on the field then you'll get gassed sooner or later, both mentally and physically.

That's why we have to be able to run the ball effectively, control the ball with a capable passing game, and shorten the game. That way the defense does not get "gassed".

Plus, Pettine has said that he likes to use units to run substitutions, especially on his DL. That should help keep those guys fresh.

Espn rides the bandwagon of whomever is winning. Especially, those teams located in New England. No doubt, the Browns have earned the criticism. To say they have got worse, well, I don't buy that. A bad QB situation doesn't make the whole team terrible. From what the so-called experts at the 4-lettered think, the whole Browns teams is terrible. I really think the Browns are just a whipping post for espn.

So, like Pettine and DeFlip Wilson, you love 1960's football?
Here is our vaunted offense for the 2015 season in a nutshell.
First Down: 3 yard rush.
Second Down: 3 yard rush.
Third Down: 3 yard rush.
Fourth Down: Punt.

Actually more like Seahawks football .... run the ball effectively and pick your places to pass.

you see, that is EXACTLY wrong. The entire key to manziel is giving him options and space to keep the initiative, and getting him and the team reps to learn the feel for how long you have to stay on blocks, and to learn to waypoint your routes.

the biggest failure last year was that the OC failed on that, and TRIED to force either one reads or called absurdity like draws, bootlegs, or zone read. and on top of that didnt get reps together.

all of those concepts are the EXACTLY PERFECT way to eliminate every single thing that gives manziel high potential.

you spread the formation a little more, run shotgun more. of course you have a quick read. if it's not there and there's time for read 2 throw it. he'll do that plenty well enough.

but where he has potential beyond anyone else is that, more often than with any other QB, if the first 2 reads arent there, he'll still convert if your team knows how to block and run routes for him. he's different. and in the exact opposite way shanahan concluded.

funny. could have sworn you said with hoyer that without a run game he sucked. but now its run the ball and......?

You can not give a guy options when he has proven in practice that he can't handle it. He also has had no feel for how long to stay in the pocket because he has taken off after his first read was not open.



He has proven in practice that he will not or can not move to his 2nd, 3rd, or 4th read and throw it. He takes off running. This is not High School, it's not collage, it's the NFL and him running on most downs is not going to work. Unless or until he can learn the offense, read the D, and go through his progressions his ass will remain glued to the bench.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE this defense but we are still missing the elite pass rusher... It's our only prayer this season though granted.

The Bears offense had a decent Jim McMahon at QB. McCown is no McMahon. They also had Walter Payton, Willie Gault on O at least...
We have nada thanks to "Text."
Hopefully, we come up with the 85 Bears defense though...

McMahon was not that good. He is a career QB rating of 80 kind of guy who barely threw more TDs than INTs in his career. He was also often injured.


There aren't many Walter Payton's in the world.. Gault was a good but not great WR who had 700 yards and 1 TD that year....

The biggest difference is Payton. But I'm not advocating we would win the SB even with Walter Payton, it's very hard (almost impossible) to be that dominant on defense these days. The 85 Bears had 5 games where they forced 5 or more turnovers... that's unheard of.

Walter Payton was decent in 1985 but he was not the Walter Payton everyone thinks of when his name is mentioned. He was at that time well past his prime.

I take my last post back. I looked at the wrong year. Walter still was a darn good running back in 1985. I hope one of our backs has that kind of year this year for us.

Over 2000 combined yards, 11 TDs, 4.8 ypc average.... I hope our backs can have that combined this year.

j/c:

Our defense is nowhere close to the great defenses like Chicago's, Baltimore's, Tampa Bay's.

Ummmmm eo...Your post actually gave me hope, until I realized how miserable our offense is going to be this year. I would have used a "crying" icon if there was one. We have a 90 year old QB with chumps at WR. We have an average running game at best and that's it. Include a rookie OC and geeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzz....It only gets worse from there................
Even the marginal 85 Bears O puts this one to shame. The only way we win is if we do get a championship level Defensive effort.
It was a nice dream though for a moment.
Is there a crying icon? I would use it on every post thanks to our "brilliant" GM named "Text."

This I agree! Nice thing Browns have three possible candidates Solomon, Mingo, and Orchard to be the elite pass rusher. A. Bryant is another option.

No Kruger mention when talking about pass rusher? He's our most productive linebacker in terms of getting to the qb.

j/c:

Top Five Browns Breakout Stars

The Cleveland Browns have talent all around their roster. Here are 5 players that could be breakout stars this season for the team. For the Browns to become one of the top teams in the NFL they need to have some of their core young players blossom into elite status. If making the Pro Bowl is the standard of being an elite player, the Browns currently have nine players on their roster that have been named to the postseason all-star game in Joe Thomas, Joe Haden, Alex Mack, Donte Whitner, Tramon Williams, Dwayne Bowe, Randy Starks, Tashaun Gipson and Andy Lee.

Some of those mentioned above are in their prime and some are on the downward side of their careers. The Browns need to add some up-and-coming players to lead the team going forward.

Here are The OBR’s top five players we suggest might have the best chance to break out into elite status. For this list, we’re not considering any of the 2015 rookies, who could obviously emerge ahead of some of the young veterans.

Joel Bitonio — Despite this being just his second season, Bitonio was praised around the league as one of the best new offensive lineman in the NFL. Bitonio received consideration for the Pro Bowl as a rookie and has a chance to emerge as fellow linemen Thomas and Mack have into a perennial Pro Bowl performer.

Tashaun Gipson — Even though Gipson made the Pro Bowl last year, Gipson has a chance to break out into a perennial top safety in the NFL. Gipson was second in the NFL last year in interceptions despite missing the final five games. Gipson is playing on the restricted free agent tender that he signed reluctantly and is expecting a big payday, either from the Browns with a contract extension or hitting the market as an unrestricted free agent. He is hoping for another season in 2015 that would reward him big financially.

Justin Gilbert — Gilbert has the athleticism to be one of the top cornerbacks in the NFL. His rookie season was a disaster for a number of reasons and by all indications Gilbert is ready for a bounce back year. If he can put it all together, the Browns will have some of the best cornerbacks in the league. There was a reason that Gilbert was drafted eighth overall in 2014 and it is time for him to show it.

Armonty Bryant — The third year pass rusher had his second season cut short with a torn ACL. Bryant had shown flashes in the preseason of becoming an elite edge rusher. There’s a good chance the Browns will play him on the outside in passing situations to utilize his quickness and athleticism and he could rack up sacks in bunches.

K’Waun Williams — In just his second season, Williams continues to cause the coaching staff to rave about him and his cover skills. Williams exploded on the scene as an undrafted rookie to claim the nickel cornerback spot. Williams has worked hard on his upper body strength and has a chance to be one of the best slot cornerbacks in the NFL.

Honorable mention

Barkevious Mingo — In his third season, it is time for Mingo to step up and be the pass rusher he was drafted to be with the sixth overall pick in the 2013 NFL Draft. Mingo played with a shoulder harness that limited his role last season according to the coaches. Healthy this year, he has a chance to become a great pass rusher. However, if he doesn’t blossom this season, there’s a good chance he will never live up to his pre-draft hype as an elite pass rusher, but rather just be a solid cover linebacker.

http://www.scout.com/nfl/browns/story/1564009-top-five-browns-breakout-stars#.Vaj5_s9Zats.twitter

I haven't seen them play yet! Have you?

Thanks for making my point. It is extremely premature to compare our defenses to those great defenses.

Indeed it is,, it's also too early to think it's impossible for them to NOT be that good.

Honestly, they weren't a horrible D last season. It was missing some key things.. Run stuffers to name one. I'm not sure yet if that's been addressed, or if it has, will it show up right away or gradually appear with time and practice.

I like the Shelton pick and this Nate Orchard kid seems impressive. Have no idea if they will translate to the Pros. Hope so. No real reason to think they won't.

Anyway, while I can't compare them to the great D's of the past (or present for that matter) at this point, I think there is reasonable hope that it could be better than last season.

In either case, I see no reason to put a damper on anyone else's hopes and beliefs... They are fans, just like you and me and if they choose to believe we can be a Great D,,so what?

Actually, I think we could be in the top ten.. I just don't think we are that far off. Pieces and parts, just pieces and parts.

Kruger is already anchored on the right side. Why move him to the left? I assumed it was a given another pass rusher was needed from the left.

I thought he was on the left? Brain fart on my part, maybe.

Edit: Brain fart it is. My bad.

I never said that they can't be better than last season. Never said they were a bad defense. I simply said that we can't classify them as one of the all-time great defenses.

How is that even debatable?

bugs and Memphis: What are you guys talking about? Kruger almost exclusively lines up on the defensive left side.