DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh McCown...

let walk? they benched him lol.

When the original DawgTalk got changed to "BrownsChat" it was in lock-step with the new Browns website. The new website was a highly advertized, rightfully so, big deal. At that time the board, now BrownsChat, added at least 1000 new members, maybe more. And none of them came from the original DawgTalk.

With that added membership, seemingly most of whom had no prior experience in the social construct of message boards, the board couldn't be controlled as it went to crap and was ultimately shut down.

So many of those who came here after that were indeed original DawgTalk members who knew and understood the rules. I remember a lot of them from there. But a very large number of them were of the new posters who first started at BrownsChat, who never had any rules, and who contributed so much to the chaos there.

Some of those who made BrownsChat a nonsense free-for-all have infected this board like a virus with no cure. Knowing the rules would help, but I can't even find the rules on here. Nazi Refs could help but it shouldn't have to come to that. Posters should be able to police themselves and debate like adults, for the most part, as their interest in the Browns should be the main reason they're here rather than to show-off their internally perceived wit in twisting topics into pissing matches that serve only to place the topic on the back burner while turning up the flame on name-calling, personal attacks and confusion filled with disparaging, belittling, or snubbing remarks. Some, in many ways, look at posting on this message board as a form of "Battle Rap" instead of a way to learn about the team through discussing football.

" he had unusual success compared with his previous career and the 2014 season."

Not sure how you come up with GREAT from EOs statement.

All IMO he is trying to say MAYBE just MAYBE if the Browns give Josh a similar situation he had in those FIVE games that he may play better, why are so many against this idea? It's at least an attempt at a viable solution to the QB position this season, instead of just giving up or just poking fun at Josh.

I hope you're right. If the Brown's team is as good as you think(minus the QB) then McCown(if better than Hoyer) should have no problem leading us to 9 or 10 wins minimum. I think we can all agree that the supporting cast going into this year is better than last year hands down. So if Hoyer can lead us to 7-6 then a better QB with a better supporting cast will perform even better. I hope he does it but if we go 6-10 or worse all fingers will be pointing at the QB moves.

One of the problems we have here in this pseudo discussion of McCown is the over use of stats to prove a point one way or the other. Win/loss stat. Passing stats, yardage, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, fumbles, sacks and on and on and on.

Stats have their place. If there is problem in using stats as an inherent value when evaluating individual players it is the variables surrounding said player. Football is not called the ultimate team sport for nothing. Every individual's stats are dependent upon the other members of the team's offense or defense.

Would the great WR be so great paired with a bad QB? Would a great RB be so great behind a lousy OL? Would a QB do better behind a top 5 OL or could he do just as well behind the 26th ranked OL?

Every player's stats are dependent on his teammates doing their job.

So when we look at a guy like Josh McCown and try to evaluate his effectiveness on our team vs his effectiveness on prior teams are we comparing apples to apples?

Team talent has to come into consideration.

I haven't studied into it but it seems that for McCown's entire 12 year career he has played on teams with sub-average talent. When he's gotten the opportunity to play he didn't do well with that below average talent.

When he was the backup for the Bears he came in and had a good run. The Bears were/are a very talented team. McCown did good enough that TB signed him to be their starting QB the next season. His new HC in TB was his HC the year before with the Bears. He must have seen something in him. Unfortunately for both of them TB did not have the team in place and McCown could not help them rise above their mediocrity.

Now we have him. Who will he be, the QB who does badly playing with a bad team or the QB who does well playing with a talented team, (a team needing only a good QB to make the playoffs as many think).

Some consider his stint with the Bears an aberration. Others think it shows what he can do on a talented team.

Some point to his 3-2 record with the Bears as possibly defining him. Others point to that record as a losing record. Still others think he could have done much better had he been getting 1st team reps all along instead of running the scout team.

Variables. Variables. Variables.

There are no individual stats in football that do not contain variables made up of other players doing or not doing their jobs.

In my thinking it's the variables that need to be taken into account/consideration and given much more value than the bare stats themselves. Those bare stats are only facts. But they do not expose how and in what manner those facts/stats were obtained. That's the bedrock on which Diam's "stats are for losers" rests. They just don't tell the whole story.

So, can McCown be good here on our team? Will our team be an apples to apples comparison to the time he spent with the Raiders? Will our team be an apples to apples comparison to the time he spent with TB or the Lions, Cardinals or Dolphins?

There's a lot to consider regarding a player other than his bare stats and win/loss record. Consider just how those stats came to be and the situations/circumstances behind them.

Against the idea? Against us having a successful QB? Against us having a winning season? Surely you jest.

I believe the opinion that is in opposition to Tabs, isn't anything against the "hope that it happens", but rather the realistic expectation that it will happen. The odds of that happening are slim to none with none being currently in the lead.

He seems to feel that the conditions surrounding McCown are based upon the team surrounding him. It was based on the play calling working to his strengths. That at no other point in his career did he have the environment to succeed. I find that hard to believe. I don't see it as being realistic that everywhere else Josh has been, and the list has been long, that only the great minds in Chicago knew how to get Josh to produce.

In this "fantastic Josh Period", with these conditions working in his favor, he managed to play one game over 500. and that is based on the very short window of five games over a 12 year career. So he is basing this scenario on 5.79% of the games Josh has played in the NFL.

I don't believe we don't understand or wish that Tabs scenario plays out. I believe we can simply look at the big picture and see that even a stint of five games that culminated in a 3-2 record in 2013 was more catching lightening in a bottle than anything we can actually expect from McCown.

I don't see that as a viable solution as you describe in your post.

I feel bad enough for hijacking the thread with my opinion on the state of the message board that I'll attempt to keep the rest of my posts relevant to the topic.

Below is a summary of sorts of Josh McCown's career. It's not the complete end all in it's content but it's his history nontheless. For those who only know him by his stats or bad press or win/loss record it's worth a read to get a better idea of who he's been in an effort to evaluate his potential with the Browns.


Arizona Cardinals

McCown shot up the draft charts after an outstanding performance at the NFL Combine, which saw him post a 4.57 40-yard dash, a 10-foot long jump, and a 38½-inch vertical jump. After being drafted by the Arizona Cardinals in the third round of the 2002 NFL Draft, future Cardinals coach Dennis Green said of McCown, "I think he's going to be a great one, when I buy into a quarterback, I really do." McCown played as a quarterback for the Cardinals from 2002 until 2005. In his first season at Arizona, he played in two games, debuting against the Kansas City Chiefs when he entered to the game for starter Jake Plummer. In 2003 played in eight games with three starts, and completed 95 of 166 passes for 1,018 yards with five TDs and six INTs and also rushed for a career-high 158 yards and a TD on 28 carries. McCown was notable for hitting receiver Nate Poole for the game-winning touchdown to knock the Vikings and-coincidentally-future offensive coordinator and coach with the Bears Mike Tice out of the playoffs 18-17. His best season for the Cardinals was in 2004 when he played in 14 games and passed for 2,511 yards and 11 touchdowns. He also rushed for 112 yards and two TDs on 36 attempts. In his career he has rallied from a fourth-quarter deficit for a victory on four occasions, all of them in 2004. He connected on a career-high 76.9 percent of his passes, 20 of 26 at Atlanta. He started for the Cardinals at the first regular season game outside the United States, played at Estadio Azteca on October 2, 2005 against the San Francisco 49ers, but McCown relinquished the starting role to Kurt Warner in 2005.

Detroit Lions

In the 2006 off-season, McCown was released by the Arizona Cardinals and became a free agent. He signed a two-year contract with the Detroit Lions on March 16, 2006. He was the backup quarterback to Jon Kitna, and was occasionally used in as the Y (slot receiver), passing Corey Bradford and Mike Williams on the depth chart as the third WR. McCown caught 2 passes for 15 yards when playing wide receiver in 2006 making his career total 3 catches for 10 yards against the New England Patriots. After the Lions drafted Michigan State quarterback Drew Stanton in the 2007 NFL Draft, McCown was traded along with Williams to the Oakland Raiders in exchange for a fourth-round draft pick, A. J. Davis.

Oakland Raiders

McCown's first regular season start for the Raiders was the 2007 season opener against his former team, the Lions. He was impressive, completing 30 of 40 passes for 313 yards with two touchdowns in a 36-21 loss to the Lions. Unfortunately, he also threw two interceptions and fumbled late in the game to end the Raiders' attempt at a comeback. McCown had played through the second half of the game against the Lions with a right foot injury. McCown has struggled this season with injuries, and in 13 games McCown has only played in 7, losing 5 games and winning 2. In the 7 games that McCown played in, he completed 85 of 143 passes for 901 yards with 9 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. Veteran quarterback Daunte Culpepper was signed by the Raiders prior to the start of the 2007 season, and was used as a back-up quarterback to McCown when McCown was active. But when McCown was unable to play, Culpepper was the starting quarterback for the Raiders, playing in 7 games, winning 3 games, and losing 4 games. Culpepper was questionable for the Raiders game against the Denver Broncos on December 2 after missing practice on November 30 with sore quadriceps. However, McCown's status was listed as probable and ended up being the starting quarterback against the Broncos. Along with running back Justin Fargas, McCown led the Raiders to a 34-20 victory over the Denver Broncos, improving the Raiders record to 4-8. In the game, McCown completed 14 of 21 passes for 141 yards with three touchdowns and no interceptions, and a 125.2 passer rating, the highest of his career. The next week, McCown left the game against the Green Bay Packers with an injury and the Raiders lost, eliminating them from playoff contention.

Miami Dolphins

On February 29, 2008, McCown signed a two-year contract with the Miami Dolphins. Prior to training camp in July, McCown needed six stitches in his throwing hand's index finger. He suffered the injury holding firewood as his brother Luke chopped it.
Coming into the preseason, McCown was listed on the Dolphins depth chart as their starting quarterback over John Beck. Following the signing of free agent quarterback Chad Pennington, McCown failed to appear in the team's final three preseason games. He was traded to the Carolina Panthers on August 29.

Carolina Panthers

On August 29, 2008, the Carolina Panthers acquired McCown from the Dolphins for a 7th round pick (#237 overall) in the 2009 NFL Draft. The move came a day after Panthers quarterback Matt Moore suffered a leg injury. He made his debut as a Panthers player when he entered the field against the Atlanta Falcons only for the end-game kneeldowns that drained the last 73 seconds from the clock. He had the same role against the Kansas City Chiefs.

Hartford Colonials (UFL)

McCown was signed by the Hartford Colonials of the United Football League on August 3, 2010. McCown threw for 265 yards and three touchdowns in the season opener 27-10 victory over the Sacramento Mountain Lions. He was then named the player of the week. In Week 2, he had another solid performance with 264 yards passing and two touchdowns. In Week 4 of the UFL, McCown threw for 223 yards, with one touchdown and one interception. By the end of the season, McCown finished off with over 1,000 yards passing, as well as the highest ranked passer in the league.

San Francisco 49ers

On August 17, 2011, McCown signed with the San Francisco 49ers. He was released by the 49ers on September 3, 2011. McCown eventually served as an assistant coach at Marvin Ridge High School.

Chicago Bears

On November 23, 2011, McCown signed with the Chicago Bears, as a backup to Caleb Hanie, after an injury to starting quarterback Jay Cutler. On December 18, 2011, McCown came in for Hanie during a 38-14 loss to the Seattle Seahawks at Soldier Field. McCown threw 2 times, one of his throws for a 12-yard gain, and the other was intercepted. On December 21, 2011, the Bears announced that McCown would start on the Christmas Day game against the defending champion Green Bay Packers, due to Caleb Hanie's struggles since taking over for the injured Jay Cutler. Despite a 35-21 loss, McCown had a somewhat decent game, throwing for a touchdown and 2 interceptions, with a passer rating of 78.5. In Week 17 against the Minnesota Vikings, McCown completed 15 for 20 for 160 yards with a touchdown and a pick with a 75.4 passer rating, but was sacked 7 times, and Jared Allen nearly broke the NFL record for sacks in a season, but fell .5 sacks short of the record. The Bears won 17-13.

McCown in 2011.
In 2012, McCown was re-signed to a 1-year deal by the Bears, and was reassigned a new number from 15 to 12 after Brandon Marshall joined the team before McCown was re-signed. On August 31, McCown was waived by the team. On November 12, McCown was again re-signed by the Bears after starting quarterback Jay Cutler sustained a concussion.

Despite becoming an unrestricted free agent in 2013, on March 29, McCown signed a one-year deal with the Bears. McCown played in the second half of week 7 against the Washington Redskins after Cutler hurt his groin in the first half. McCown completed 14 of 20 passes for 204 yards and a touchdown to Martellus Bennett, but the Bears lost 45-41. On November 4, McCown led the Bears to a victory over the rival Green Bay Packers on Monday Night Football. McCown threw for 272 yards and 2 touchdowns en route to a 27-20 victory. Cutler started the week ten game against the Detroit Lions, but was replaced by McCown on the final drive due to an ankle injury. McCown guided the Bears to a 74-yard touchdown drive, completing 6 of 9 passes for 62 yards and an 11-yard touchdown to Brandon Marshall. However, the Bears lost 21-19. On November 11, Bears head coach Marc Trestman stated that Cutler is not expected to play the following week against the Baltimore Ravens, and McCown will most likely get the start. McCown started his second game against the Ravens, completing 19 of 31 passes for 216 yards with one touchdown and a 92.9 passer rating in a 23-20 victory. In the last four games, McCown has thrown for 754 yards with five touchdowns, no interceptions and a 100.0 passer rating. From week 6 to week 12 in the 2013 NFL season, McCown had the highest passer rating of any quarterback in the league. McCown started week twelve against St. Louis. Against St. Louis, McCown completed a franchise-record 36 passes for 352 yards, two touchdowns and an interception. The next week against the Minnesota Vikings, McCown threw for a season-high 355 yards, completing 23 of 36 passes for two touchdowns and a 114.9 rating. In week 14 against the Dallas Cowboys, McCown threw for four touchdowns and ran for another while completing 27 of 36 passes for 348 yards and a career-high 141.9 passer rating en route to a 45-28 victory. McCown became the first Bears quarterback to score five touchdowns since Jack Concannon in 1972. McCown was eventually named NFC Player of the Week. McCown ended the 2013 season completing 66.8 of his passes for 1,829 yards with 13 touchdowns, one interception and a 109.0 passer rating, the third highest behind Peyton Manning and Nick Foles and the best in Bears history. On January 24, 2014, McCown was named to the USA Today All-Joe Team.


Tampa Bay Buccaneers

On March 12, 2014, McCown signed a two-year, $10 million contract with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Another $5 million was available based on playoff appearances and playing time. He was immediately named the starter by new Buccaneers head coach and his former head coach in Chicago, Lovie Smith. In week 3, he was replaced by Mike Glennon after suffering a thumb injury during a 56-14 blowout by the Atlanta Falcons. Glennon took over as the starter and led the Bucs to a 27-24 win over the Steelers but after four straight losses, McCown was again named the starter.

On February 11, 2015, after underperforming, he was released after just one season with the Buccaneers.

Cleveland Browns

On March 2, 2015, McCown signed a three year contract with the Cleveland Browns.


from Wiki

OK, what do you consider is a viable solution with what the Browns have now?

I believe that's all he was trying to do is come up with what he thought may help his way of having a football debate in this slow part of the season I don't think he expects Josh to be great but just decent.

If you don't have hope what is the point of watching the games?

I don't think McCown is good or the answer, but many are saying that Hoyer was better. Yet, Hoyer had about five games where he played good, the other wins had more to do with defense and turnovers.

I don't see how many feel Hoyer was so good. From what I saw, he started strong, and dwindled after film on him emerged. Even in his wins, his accuracy was horrible. Then when adversity reared it's head, he was horrible.

IMO, Hoyer's streak of wins are very comparable to McCown's. The big difference is McCown has been around a very long time, while Hoyer has not. If Hoyer can beat out Mallet and win some games, I may look at it differently.

I don't see comparing their records, as far as wins go, relevant at all.

Yup and the Bucs did the same thing and McCown went right back to being who he has always been.........

Wait a minute how did Bucs provide the same thing? Last time I checked Tampa had no running backs let alone anything close to Forte.

I still think McCown will struggle in Cleveland. The main argument McCown has success given a run game. Cleveland most definitely has better backs than Tampa. Does Cleveland need talent like Forte for him to be as good as he was in those five games? There lies the million dollar question whether Browns have a winning season or not.

Backup QBs, the 2nd tier guys, (and below) move all of the time.

Hoyer was with the Pats, Cardinals, Steelers, Browns, and now Texans in what will be 8 seasons.

The Bills traded for Matt Cassel, who has been with only 3 teams in 8 years, but who was hardly highly sought after. This year will be his 4th team in 9 seasons.

The Jets traded for Ryan Fitzpatrick, who has been with 5 teams in 10 seasons. (and will be with 6 this coming year)

I look at McCown, and see a guy who has, largely, been Brian Hoyer.

What? Why would I say this?

Last year, Hoyer completed 55.3% of his passes for 12 TD and 13 INT.

In 2004, McCown started 14 games for the Cardinals. He completed 57.1% of his passes for 10 TD and 11 INT.

He started 6 games the next season, and completed 60.4% of his passes for 9 TD and 11 INT.

He then sat a year, went to the Raiders, and completed 58.4% of his passes for 10 TD and 11 INT in 9 games.

He then started 5 games in Chicago, and had an incredible 5 games. He completed 66.5% of his passes with 13 TD and 1 INT. He was in a perfect situation, for him, and he responded well.

He then went to Tampa, and a mess. He had no ofensive coordinator, and his QB coach had never coached in the NFL. Ever. He completed 56.3% of his passes for 11 TD and 14 INT.

He has been remarkably similar to Hoyer, except that McCown has had a stretch where he has been extremely productive, in his time with Chicago.

Last year, both McCown and Hoyer threw 10 TD and 5 INT from the opponent's 20 yard line in.

What will he be in Cleveland? Who knows. I suspect that he will be a guy who will not be asked to be the whole show. He will be a guy who will be asked to play a role ..... but we will be, mainly, a running team who throws a lot of WCO type short passes. We will take shots down the field, but McCown will be asked, basically, to not lose games. That is the role that Hoyer would have been asked to play as well, and I suspect that he did not see himself in that role. This is complete supposition on my part, but is based on the fact that the Browns never pursued Hoyer at the end of last year, and on comments Hoyer made last year about being a top end QB. (and wanting, at the time, a top flight starter's contract)

I think that we essentially swapped 1 QB for another that is remarkably similar, and the guy we brought in is more willing to play the role this team wants him to play.

Exactly what I have been saying. I don't see much difference between the two other then their ages.

And one is wearing a Browns uniform, the other a Texans.

No...they did not. I'm not saying they did not try...but that entire team from top to bottom became a train wreck before the season even started.

Note: That statement does not equate to me being happy that McCown is likely to be our starter.

There seems to be a lot of people jumping on the McCown bandwagon. There are a lot of excuses being made for his career. People act like our offense is so superior to the other offenses he has played with. Many of you are acting like those of us who question McCown's abilities are the crazy ones. LOL........unreal.

We'll see what song you'll be singing in October. This debate is so similar to so many other debates we have had on here. You won't learn anything from it either. You'll just find a new topic to scream how some of us are clueless.

Like it/him or not, that is actually funny. I don't get it with these guys...their hands/fingers are a huge part of why they get to do what it is that they do.

I take care of my hands/fingers because as an accountant I use them everyday and most of the day...and I don't even sniff making what these guys make. It's truly unbelievable what these guys do to themselves without thinking about what might happen.

Yeah, it's hilarious and scary at the same time.

Consider this: he had to know that Luke had accuracy issues?

Maybe I'm not seeing the same threads that you see...because I haven't seen ONE poster jump on a McCown bandwagon.

What I DO see are posters looking at McCown's career and saying that if...IF...the team can keep him clean and give him a running game and solid D...he might...MIGHT...be able to replicate the limited success he had with the Bears.

The screaming only comes on when people try to claim that others are saying something that they have not actually said and/or want to claim that the "bandwagoners" believe that the McCown pickup was some sort of genius move.

It is what it is...IF and MIGHT are giant words...I think everyone knows that.

Even the staunchest "bandwagoners" understand that McCown is more likely to fail than succeed given his track record...but a veteran QB in a solid system can...CAN...possibly lead the team to many wins.

IMO..McCown is a larger version of Kitna. He's going to have some good games and some stinkers. We will love him and despise him...sometimes in the same game. This particular off-season, his acquisition was as good as was reasonably available. It's time to go all in with him...even if we have to hold our noses on occasion.

See, this post makes sense to me. I'm okay w/that, but there aren't too many posts that seem to be that objective.

Of course no one is jumping on the McCown bandwagon. It's a tactic to create a love/hate sides....just like always.

No doubt...just envision that entire scenario in your minds eye...with a football fan nearby whispering about Luke's accuracy issues right before the big swing. It brings a tear to my eye it's so darn funny.

I think this is a great example of what ddub was talking about earlier in regards to posters and their pissing matches.

It really is funny if you can step-back and look at just as an observer who is not a Brown's fan.

ddub is free to call it whatever he likes, just like I am free to coin it as calling a poster out who is clearly trying to manufacture a POV of posters that doesn't exist in an effort to create confrontation. Again, no one is jumping on any McCown bandwagon. All I am seeing in this thread, and others discussing McCown, are centered around these main views:

- Unhappy he is here.
- A wash between him and Hoyer.
- Hoping that he can be avg. with a good defense and running game.
- Hopeful (to a lesser extent) he can pull off the same productivity that he did in a 5 game stretch in CHI.

I see no one saying anything close to resembling bandwagon nonsense.

Again, call it a pissing match. I'll say it's a response to nullify typical posts that attempt to create stuff that isn't there. To quote you....'play fair'.

JMHO, it is funny/sad that several posters on board showed real concern and care for your dog's death...then changed back to personal attacks.... opinions, like spots on our butts, everyone has one...and some of our poster SURELY should have been hired as GM, special consultants to owners....cuz they got all the RIGHT info and everyone else is stupid....we are all just fans wanting the Browns to find success again...how few of us were alive to see the championship of 64, I'm one of lucky ones and hope to see our Browns in SB before kicking the bucket...EO, keep posting, most of us like your logic/opinions....GO Browns!!!

who attacked the dog?

You're mixing up two different things and equating them to being the same.

You don't have to believe that your team is going to win with McCown at QB to root for them, hope you are wrong and have hope. I've heard that same thing from some for years.

It's sort of the like the tiring old saying of "If you don't support the war, you don't support the troops". How is wanting your troops safe at home, alive and well when they're dodging bullets in a war you don't think is necessary not supporting the troops?

I support my team. I root for my team and I watch my team. The hope that I have is the hope that I'm wrong. But that doesn't mean I have to hide my beliefs in what I think about the outcome.

Mine was in general statement as in the Browns as a team not any particular player. Don't really care the name on the jersy as long as they win.

Yeah.............poor eotab. He's been picked on throughout this entire thread and has never once uttered an insult of his own. Let's look at a few of his kindly words, shall we:



Yeah, poor, poor tab. He is being picked on by people who are just so, so mean.

ESPN's Pat McManamon swings and misses at McCown signing perspective

By Josh Finney
@JoshFin on Mar 2, 2015

Pat McManamon wrote an article this morning hoping to explain why the Browns signed Josh McCown, using 11 frank points. I'm happy to answer his questions.

1. Ponder the chronology: Ray Farmer drafts Johnny Manziel. Brian Hoyer barely wins the job out of training camp, then holds onto it by playing well early. Eventually he leads the Browns to a 7-4 record. Farmer, though, sends in-game texts to assistant coaches as early as the New Orleans game. It was the second game of the season and a win for the Browns. He continues to text during games throughout the season, some of it about the quarterback play, and only acknowledges his mistake after the season when the texting becomes public. Farmer clearly was part of the front office effort that undermined Hoyer, and had him playing while wearing a straightjacket. The more Hoyer learned the front office was not supportive, the more he pressed. So the guy who undermined Hoyer by texting during games winds up, with the full support of the owner, ushering Hoyer out of town and signing a 35-year-old to replace him.

It's easy to look at this as a conspiracy theory to try to understand the steep drop off in the quality of Brian Hoyer's play, but the reality is found in the minutiae. Brian Hoyer began to struggle for three reasons:

1. The running game stopped being able to effectively rip off major YPC, which heavily affected the play action passing game. Obviously, the Alex Mack injury had was a key component of this.

2. Defenses started to get tape to study on how the Browns offense operated, which let them change schemes to more effectively crash the line by run blitzing. The defenses the Browns saw got progressively better as the season progressed, which put the struggles of the offense under a greater magnifying glass.

3. Hoyer's mechanics got progressively sloppier as the season progressed and teams learned that he struggled under pressure. Brian started to fade to the left and right during his throws, and his footwork became choppy.

I'm much more inclined to believe Hoyer's problems were developed between the hashes rather than as a result of not being loved by Ray Farmer and the front office.



2. McCown is a tremendous human being, a quality guy. He also was a teammate of LeCharles Bentley in the Senior Bowl. In 2002. Along with Dave Zastudil, Dwight Freeney, Brett Keiseland David Garrard. That was the same year the Browns took William Green in the first round.

Hey-o, Josh McCown is old! So are a host of other backup quarterbacks. He's only like 3 years older than last two starting quarterbacks, though, so......we have that going for us.

3. The Browns have maintained as they built their team that what was most important to them was they wanted to drive competition at every position. It’s been a mantra, right up there with "play like a Brown." In signing McCown, the Browns let Hoyer go because he wanted to start and they felt he was not their guy for the long-term. In signing McCown, they added a guy who will start, but is willing to be a mentor. How exactly is this driving competition?

The Browns did not let Hoyer go because of the two reasons outlined here. The Browns let Hoyer go for a half dozen reasons, not the least of which is the fact that Hoyer was offered a contract last year (to make fair backup money) and he turned it down by betting on himself. He also feels that he has the skills and mentality to be a starter in this league, and wants to pursue that dream. That's a fundamental difference of opinion, and they're happy to look into other options that provide the same-ish quality of play that Hoyer brings.

Also, the Browns are a far ways from declaring that McCown will start. On March 2nd, with your other reasonable option in rehab, he's the guy at the top of the depth chart. It's also obvious from his comments when he was introduced that McCown understands that the only person keeping Johnny Manziel or a yet-to-be-determined pick from the job is.....themselves. By bringing in Josh McCown, the Browns have said: "This is the bar of acceptable performance. It is not a high bar to vault, but you must be this tall to ride this coaster" (figuratively)

4. McCown was good with the Bears two years ago, going 3-2 in games he started. But that was the only year in his career he was above .500 as a starter. His second-best mark: 3-3 in 2005 and 1-1 in 2011. Take away the Bears season, and McCown is 14-30 as a starter, with 44 starts in 12 seasons.

We don't measure QB success in wins and losses, despite what many Browns fans want to do with Brian Hoyer. I can still objectively say that Drew Brees was the best QB in the NFC south, despite losing more games than Carolina. Team sport.



5. McCown went 1-10 in Tampa Bay. There he had two big and talented receivers and a poor offensive line, and he faced the NFC South, the NFL’s worst division. Carolina made the playoffs with a 7-8-1 record.

Yep, that division sucked. Trying to derive value from McCown's performance in it is corollary at best, and likely completely unrelated.

6. Kyle Shanahan preferred the Browns draft Jimmy Garapolo last year. In signing McCown, the Browns made a point that new coordinator John DeFilippo worked with him in Oakland. So the team gave a first-time coordinator who -- has never called plays -- his quarterback while denying the veteran coordinator his.

There's a lot of back-handed insults here, but some key points to remember.

1. NFL teams don't typically allow the offensive coordinator to dictate who they are going to draft. They sometimes let homeless people give input, but that's a different story.

2. The Browns did not sign Josh McCown because of Coach Flip. They signed McCown because he provides a capable presence in the quarterbacks room, and they viewed the familiarity with some of the offensive concepts as a plus. More than anything, the Browns needed to bring in a veteran to provide stability at the position, and were in a worse position to negotiate with a meager quarterback supply than nearly every other team ALSO looking to add a quarterback. They could not afford to waste their time and resources chasing a Sanchez or a Locker, both of which will undoubtedly have more stable teams fighting for their services, and a lot more weapons on offense to work with.

3. Connecting random haphazard dots is Grossi territory. Beware or catch copyright infringement activities.



7. It’s worth noting that DeFilippo worked with McCown as quarterback coach in 2007. That was seven years ago when DeFIlippo was a first-year quarterback coach.

This is a good thing, yes? The guys who will be working with the quarterback are familiar with his body of work and capability?


8. Relying on past performance seems to really matter with this organization. Farmer said he believes Manziel can succeed because of the way he played in college. Two years ago. The Browns signed McCown, presumably because he played well in Chicago. Two years ago.



11. The Browns seem to be the only team that believes Manziel and McCown can be a starter. Buffalo was negotiating, but not to the effort the Browns did. What the Browns saw that 31 other teams did not is open to question. Though the draft could reduce the fuzziness, at this point it seems like Farmer simply did not want Hoyer. When McCown became available he became the most attractive quarterback to Farmer who wasn’t Hoyer. Signing a 35-year-old who went 1-10 a year ago, a guy much of the league felt was more ready to be a Matt Hasselbecktype backup than a starter, shows little long-term thinking. It seems more like the Browns are making it up as they go.

I'm still firmly in the camp that believes that Johnny Manziel, warts and rehab and all, is the favorite to start at QB for the Browns in 2015. He's obviously got a monumental way to go, cleaning himself up, but his talent is light years beyond what McCown provides on game day. Manziel will have to prove that he's willing to outwork the veteran and know the playbook inside and out, but if he does, McCown will prove a resource for him. If he's unable to do so, the Browns will not let their veterans down by starting him anyway. McCown starting 16 games or Manziel starting them will prove the same in 2016; it will show the team exactly where the 2016 draft position stands, in terms of quarterbacks.


Link

Those are some very weird opinions. Who is Josh Finney? Who does he write for? He isn't actually paid by a newspaper, magazine, or someone big like ESPN.....is he?

He writes for Dawgs By Nature

That explains it. He really isn't an accredited media guy, right. Just some guy like one of us.

Just another point of view, not claiming it to be the gospel you can read it and take away from it what you chose.