DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... The Second Amendment - guns

People that think they get it, is also a problem

I applaud General Honore for stepping forward and willingly pushing the subject (gun ownership)a step further down the field.

Yes, there is a gun problem in this country and yes, it is time for gun owners, like myself, to accept some of the responsibility for the present gun culture in the USA.

What can gun owners do to help?

the main thing i can think of personally would be to stop walking around Wal-Mart with an AR-15 slung around the back.

Kinda odd you don't want to shoot an armed burglar but you'd take the gun from him and now use a gun on an unarmed burglar?

All due respect to the general, he is operating from false premise.

"We've got a problem in this country, and at some point the politicians have to get down into the community and find some answers to this problem."

Any American who asks the politicians to fix a perceived problem in America is defeating his own argument. Who honestly thinks the government does anything efficiently? Who thinks the government actually works against its own interests in order to preserve the liberties of its citizenry?

"I've been around guns all my life, but when I was growing up they were locked in the cabinet unless you needed them for hunting."

Kudos to you General. Do you advocate all people act the same. I read the comments about soldiers being trained and accidentally discharging their firearms. What a real misleading statement that was. A veteran combat soldier would never do that. He did not mention that most soldiers rarely touch a loaded firearm when not in a combat zone. His statement could be used as an argument for having soldiers armed while on duty everywhere.

"That's the job of law enforcement. On our bases, yes, we guard our gates and our bases, but not at the recruitment offices."

Anyone who has dealt with law enforcement would be frightened by this statement. Soldiers are to be armed when on a base but are to be left unarmed when at recruiting offices? Perhaps moving the recruiting offices onto military bases is a solution?

"We've got to rethink and re-set our thoughts about guns," he said. "We have to focus less on ideology and more on practicality."

What thoughts about guns? Does he mean my Constitutional right to have one for whatever reason I wish to have one. I do not need to be a hunter to want a firearm. The problem is not the gun, it is the person using the gun. The comments made by the general concerning living in Europe and Korea where gun violence is not as common is also misguided. Individual liberties are not common in those nations. The practicality argument is frightening. It may be practical to silence your political opposition or to confiscate your neighbors property for the "common good". My god man, as a former soldier myself, I find that statement scary and has me doubting my military. If practicality is a reasoning over liberty, we are already lost as a nation.

Voleur

I would also like to ask if people are surprised that a former Army officer is wishing for citizens to have less arms.

i've come to a very blatantly obvious conclusion on these boards:

people care more about guns than they do treating people equally.

I mean i'm talking to a bunch of people who never shot somebody in their lives, arguing about the idea of getting to kill somebody one day.

man.....ok.

How could you possibly know if anyone on these boards ever shot anyone?

I have not seen a post yet where someone states they are looking for a chance to kill somebody.

I do however see someone who just pukes out accusations without having a clue.

ok...so who has shot somebody?

have you?

Wrong. In the simplest term I can say: Wrong. I treat people equally. I own guns - or maybe just "a" gun. How do I treat people differently based on that?


The idea "of getting to kill somebody"????? Really? You think that's what I, or others, want?

Let me let you in on an apparent secret: I never want to shoot someone. And I never will - unless my life or my families life is in danger. Period.

I can walk away from a fight if I'm allowed to.

Apparently 99% of the population can as well.

The murders in this country are predominately drug and/or gang related. They just don't make the news. They make the "stats", but not the news. I don't think you'd disagree with that.

Everybody who has ever had to live through the trauma of shooting another person line up and announce it on the Internet for Swish please!

I know PerfectSpiral once shot a look at someone, just before he removed the guys adams apple!

so why do people get so excited when talking about guns?

we literally got fools walking around with their rifles up in damn airports and department stores cause "my rights".

we got guys like Erik who think the solution to guns is.....more guns.

we got a bunch of people talking about how they shouldn't allow gay marriage even though the constitution allows them to get married as their no religious laws.... so some of you guys wanna disregard the constitution on that...but guns? nooooooooo. not my guns!!

It's awesome Arch that you would prefer to fight.

but i'm sorry, just reading this post, it's clear as day most people rather shoot. that power of a weapon gets their rocks off or something.

The fear mongering on this board is absolutely astounding. it's like watching a live taping of Fox News. there's danger lurking around every corner!!! do you have your CWW? is it obama's fault? nobody is safe!!

just fed up with it man.

What???

I get no "rocks off" by shooting someone. I never have, never will. What are you talking about?

I would never get a "thrill" out of shooting somebody. Ever.

And how did "guns" turn into "gay marriage" in your post?

You are way off base jumping to the conclusion that those of us who own guns are chomping at the bit to get to shoot someone. Nothing posted here sends that message.

The two biggest problems facing humanity today are hate and poverty... (not guns, or knives, or even nuclear weapons)

People who are willing to commit acts of violence for ideological reasons and people who feel they need to in order to survive...

There will always be special circumstances, there is no utopian solution.. but those two are the biggest part of it.

In a perfect world we wouldn't need em. I have a few, but only one is for "fun", my WW2 spec 1911. I just use it for target practice.

I have a double barrel 12ga that actually was bought by my great grandfather, and passed down to me by my dad, and his dad before him. It still works and I use it for pest control on my property. Damn Groundhogs.

I have a Mossberg 500 and Glock 23 that are for personal defense. The main reason I feel the need to have them is because I live with my wife and baby on over 5 acres of land, where the nearest neighbor is almost a half mile away. If something bad happens here I'd like at least a fighting chance. I hope to never have to use them for defense.

I think guns are a useful tool, but they do vary in their purpose. I don't think every gun is a hammer. Both sides (pro and anti gun control) sometimes think that way. What I mean by that is you run into some gun control proponents who believe all guns should be outlawed because every gun could be used to kill someone. Then you have anti gun control proponents who believe no guns should be outlawed because banning a full auto AK47 is an assault on our constitutional rights.

This has to be one of the more foolish things you've ever written on the board. I have a gun for self defense, and I hope I never have to use it for such purposes. I'd much rather shoot targets at a range than a person any day. The reason most people buy a gun is very simple. They want to be on equal or better footing than the bad guy if they find themselves in a bad situation.

Ding Ding Ding and what do we have for our winner Johnny?

Just because you don't feel mentally stable enough to own guns doesn't mean the rest of us aren't mentally stable. Now to other points in your post.

Gay marriage: The federal government should not be involved in marriage in any way, shape, or form. They only do it for tax purposes. It is not constitutional or unconstitutional as marriage is never mentioned in the Constitution.

Getting their rocks off: Some people do, not all. I have an acquaintance that shot himself in the butt in the first few hours he had the gun. The moron was playing quick draw in the mirror. A gun is a tool just like any other tool. You can kill with an axe, hatchet, saw, hammer, screwdriver, knives, or any other large number of tools.

Fear mongering: Is it fear mongering to report news? Fox news reports on the shootings in Chicago and other cities that other media ignores. I actually find the fear mongering mostly on the left, as they report 'another shooting of an unarmed black man by police' and their 'fear the police' agendas. More whites are shot by police than blacks every year. If you want to be safe, make yourself safe.

Open carry in department stores: Maybe if the feds would stop pushing gun control in every high profile shooting, and they would stop trying to pass legislation to take guns away, stop trying to regulate bullets through the EPA or HHS, and stop trying to regulate semi-auto rifles because they look scarier than others (the AR-15 for example), then maybe those people wouldn't carry their guns in protest.

Obama has been the best salesman of guns in this country's history, as he keep proposing new rules, regulations, executive orders, or laws to subvert the 2nd Amendment. Has anyone checked to see if he or his wife own stock in gun companies?

A massive, lifetime supply of denial by many around us all ....

Swish, I have seen people killed. It is not a pretty thing at all. It is not about treating others fairly. The fact that you think that makes me wonder what other liberties people should give up in the name of equality? Perhaps we should give up private property because one person may have more than another? I really dislike when an argument lends itself to generalities and obscurities to make its point such as "People care about guns more than equality". One cannot believe and care for both? Or obscuring the liberty which is to own a gun with public safety.

Voleur

of course you can believe in both.

but look at the responses in this thread compared to the ones where we talk about equality.

people that don't even normally post in EE came out the wood work when we talk about gun rights.

but when we talk about equality the majority always ends up being more or less "it's not that bad".

that's why i said i what i said. and the responses didn't disappoint in the least.

Part of that would be perception and which side of the issue one is on.

I have seen the equality threads get vehement on the side of those that feel things are not equal or even close.

On gun threads it's the gun owners who feel threatened.

It's like that with any debate, the more closely it hits home to someone, the more likely they get involved, the more vocal they will usually be.

When it comes to equality we see it through our eyes, and many of us don't live in urban areas, our view of it is from where we live, where things may appear, at least to us, more equal than that of someone living in the projects, harassed by cops daily, etc.

Guns is more black and white, pro-gun or anti-gun, and the few in between who don't care either way.

lol!

When you mention equality are you talking about gay marriage?

everything bro. religious equality, gays, race, all that.

I have to say, reading this thread today got me in the mood to start checking prices over at Cabela's, lol... found an ArmaLite .50 BMG for like $3,500.

Beats the snot out of the price of a Barrett!

Liberals hate us cuz they ain't us.
-40

I think every american should own a gun. A single shot shotgun. This will allow for defense of home and hunting. All other guns should be banned.

Nobody really seriously hunts with handguns. Nobody seriously hunts with assault rifles.

It's harder to go on a shooting spree with a single shot shotgun. It's harder to commit suicide with a single shot shotgun. It's harder to be a terrorist with a single shot shotgun.

I absolutely support the right to own guns. I also support the right for children to feel safe in school, for people to feel safe in a cinema and for people to feel safe on the street.

Law enforcement would not feel the need to keep up with potential threats if all that was available was single shot shotguns; we could end the police state arms race.

But those with mounted metal genitalia would lose the Napoleon Complex security blanket that they can't seem to breath without so any and all talk about real change in gun laws becomes moot. Sadly metal peckers rule, children die, crazies get guns and everyday people must live in fear... AND this is somehow preferable to gun regulation.

As long as there is only one home invader, your theory will work.
If there are two invaders you better get them both with that
single shot.

So, my .22 rifle for squirrels is "out" in your book?

My .223 Weatherby, bolt action, is "out" in your book?

Plinking in the back yard with my S&W 22A1 is a no no.

My other hand guns are "out".

Exactly what gauge shotgun would you allow someone to have? Perhaps a .410?

As much as he was talking about genitalia, I think anything with a pump action would do.

Before my daughter leaves my house she will have a handgun, shotgun and M-4 or Ak-47. A weapon for each job.

These statement are false. There are an awful lot of deer hunters that use handguns, even here in Ohio. If you consider the AR platform an "assault rifle" (nobody has actually defined what an assault rifle is), thousands of coyote hunters use them.

Problem is, too many people think the "AR" in "AR 15" stands for "assault rifle". Or "Automatic Rifle". It actually stands for "Armalite" the company that originated it.

This is my weapon, this is my gun...

I have a 22 pistol, that is strictly for protection.

I have shot this gun out at my brother's house. (he has a huge plot of land, and he shoots on it. His step kids can handle, responsibly, an AK, and can assemble and disassemble it) I was actually pretty good the 1st time I shot it. I did well the 1st time I shot it. My brother asked me where I learned to shoot, and to quote Marty McFly, I said "7-11".

If we start from the premise that this is true, it is in fact people that are the problem... and we've been told that people are the same all over... then why do countries like Japan, Sweden, Switzerland, Spain, Germany, Austria, China, Czech Republic all have less than 1 intentional homicide per 100,000 citizens in a year and the United States has 5 times that many?

Economically we are on par with any of those countries if not ahead of them... yet we kill each other at a significantly higher rate...

Our intentional homicide rate is on par with countries like Micronesia, Yemen, Niger, Thailand... and not too far ahead of North Korea and Argentina....

So there has to be something more to it than just "people" are the problem right? That simplistic of an answer seems like a bit of a cop out to me.

And while these stats are for all intentional homicides, not just gun violence... yes, we have more guns per capita than any other country (and I'm not sure if they guessed at the total number of guns or just the registered legal ones) but Switzerland has a lot of guns, so does Sweden and France... yet you are still 5x more likely to get killed in the United States than any of those countries....

So I ask a very simple question... what the hell is wrong with us?

So the gun black market will just disappear once that law is passed, correct?