DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum camp stuff 2015

West gets way too much love IMO.

Kitchen starting nose? Not saying I object, but figured Shelton would take over that spot pretty "instantly"... first day of camp though, I can dig giving the nod to a veteran.

FWIW, Pettine just said in an interview he'll be switching up RBs day to day, drill to drill.

Agreed. Crow impressed me more than West last year. At least until Mack went down. Then no one was particularly impressive.



I liked Duke Johnson a lot in college. He reminds me a little of Lesean McCoy. If he can figure out blocking, I think he'll end up being our starter. He's shifty, fast, and more powerful than you think. Good hands. And he was very productive at Univ of Miami.

But the blocking thing is very important. This is the NFL, and guys will kill your QB if your RB misses a blocking assignment. It's the quickest way a rookie can get demoted

It's camp.... I'd be surprised if he isn't doing this with every player and every position group. That's part of what camp is for.

Solomon over Mingo? That's about right

well crow fumbled twice today according to what I heard on the radio, so that problem doesn't seem to have been fixed

uh oh.

Mary Kay Cabot ✔ @MaryKayCabot
#browns Pettine on exchange problems between mccown and Crowell: "you've got to protect the football"

thanks pb

I was thinking more about Taylor there.

Yeah, I don't think he's been cleared for activities.

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 4h4 hours ago
#Browns FS Tashaun Gipson practicing after hammy sidelined him during minicamp. DL Phil Taylor (knee) & OLB Armonty Bryant (knee) practicing

for what its worth.

Good. Then he passed the team physical yesterday. There was concern he (and Armonty) would not.

weird. read him and one other player did not take it. kinda baffled when i saw he was practicing.

On whether rookies, injured vets and QBs took and passed their conditioning tests: ‘Yes. There were a couple of guys that we felt were at risk – the lineman that we signed (OL Erle Ladson), the Delaware kid – who we felt like we didn’t have him to really get a good evaluation; some of the guys that were at risk that we would’ve held them out and put in an extra running program as opposed to ‘Oh hey, welcome to Cleveland. Jump out here and run the test.’ The guys that are running the test are the guys that were here all spring, that got a chance to know what it is and prepare for it. There will be some guys that will be off to the side. (OL) Armonty (Bryant) and (OL) Phil (Taylor) are not going to run it. We’ll ease them in; they’ll be in an extra conditioning group. Some of the guys that we would feel will be at risk, we’ll go ahead and hold them out.”

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...g-camp-1.611929


On confirming that DL Phil Taylor did not participate in yesterday’s conditioning test: “Correct.”
On Taylor participating in practice, despite being held from the conditioning test: “The guys that we held for injury reasons and other circumstances will do extra conditioning with the strength and conditioning staff. He is still on very much a limited basis. His team reps, we will determine those each days just with where he is with it.”

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...g-camp-1.612128

lol.

Love Gipson. I expect to see him at least this year and next year. If anyone gets a franchise tag, it'll be him. 6.9 million this year was for a FS



But I dunno how I feel about Armonty Bryant being moved to OLB. He seems like a better fit at DE to me. I'm very interested in seeing how he does as an OLB. But I really liked his play as a DE last year. We shall see I guess

Here's what Browns coach Mike Pettine is saying after first practice of training camp

Browns coach Mike Pettine met with reporters Thursday after the first full-squad practice of training camp. Below is a transcript provided by the team.
On his first impression of the first training camp practice: “I think in a lot of ways it was a typical first day. I saw a lot of good things out there – most importantly, the focus, the effort and the energy. This is a shock to the system. I told them that afterwards. Our recovery from here is very important and to take care of themselves these next couple hours. No matter how hard you train over the summer, there is no way to replicate this. I thought our guys handled it well. We threw a lot at them from a physical standpoint and from a mental standpoint. It was clear to see that our guys were in shape and they got in their books over the summer. I will reserve final judgment until I watch the film as always. My first impression was that it was a good start.”
On why the practice was only two hours: “It’s an acclamation period. I think it would be hard to max that time out on the first day. Two hours is a shock to the system. When you go back and just look at some of the injury data, you are putting yourself at risk. It might not necessarily be Day 2, but Day 3 or Day 4 by coming in and having too big of a jolt from a football standpoint.”
On his first thoughts on WR Terrelle Pryor as a WR and if he found himself watching Pryor more than he typically might: “A couple times. He looks great in a uniform, I can tell you that (laughter). He is a big, explosive athlete. We all saw that he catches the ball. He has a lot to learn. Getting off of press coverage, that will be a big thing once we get the pads on Saturday. I thought it was a solid first step for him. I think he would have some confidence coming out of today. I think a lot of credit to (wide receivers coach) Joker Phillips, who has taken him as his position coach, getting him schooled up and has been trying to get him caught up to speed. I think he has done a nice job of getting him lined up and knowing what he is supposed to do. We’ll see. It’s certainly going to be a progression. I thought it was a good start for Terrelle.”
On explaining the fumbled exchange between QB Josh McCown and RB Isaiah Crowell, potentially due to the players having not worked together much: “I just think they were excited to be out. It was very early. It wasn’t even in team stuff. It was just in the ball-exchange stuff. That is stuff we emphasize and we talked about it as a team and a staff that if we want to get to where we want to be, we have to protect the football and we have to take it away from people. That is going to be emphasized every day in practice. Those types of self-inflicted wounds are hard to swallow.”
On WR Vince Mayle dropping a few passes and if his thumb contributed to those: “No, [it’s] the first time for him out, too. I know just talking with the trainer and talking to (head athletic trainer) Joe (Sheehan) that he is going to experience some soreness with it at times. I am not that concerned about Vince. Going back to his college days, drops weren’t a big issue. That is not really a concern.”
On the Browns’ training camp schedule compared to last year: “It’s essentially the same schedule, a few minor tweaks. I already talked about, we shortened today. There will be another team period, run emphasis, when we get in pads, and we will do some crossover work. Essentially, the practice format is the same as a year ago.”
On the confidence he has in Pryor’s ability to improve his ball security: “That is why we have camp. It is hard for him during the time he is off working out on his own to simulate that and do it within the framework of our offense with our quarterbacks. That is a priority for not just him but for all of our guys that handle the football. I already mentioned that protecting the football for all teams is critical. Other than the actual final score, the turnover margin is usually the highest determining factor. Whatever those percentages – if you are +2, you [have an] 80-plus percent [chance] to win. That is critical for us. We have to protect the football.”
On RB Terrance West receiving the first handoff in team drills and how carries will rotate between the RBs: “It will be mixed. You will see a healthy rotation. You will see all those guys taking reps with the ones. All those groups will get mixed. There are certain plays, as well, that Flip (offensive coordinator John DeFilippo) will put a tag on the personnel call to designate who he wants the back to be.”
On OL Alex Mack’s status and him taking all reps in today’s practice: “That’s something that the big part will be the communication with him. How does he feel? If he needs a day, if he needs some reps, if he needs to cut some time back. He knows his body better than anybody else. We will depend on him to let us know when he does need to scale it back.”
On having confidence Mack will be open about his status, knowing how badly he wants to be on the field: “We’ve used the phrase ‘Save him from himself’ before. That might be the case. I think he will be smart about it. He will be smart about it.”
On confirming that DL Phil Taylor did not participate in yesterday’s conditioning test: “Correct.”
On Taylor participating in practice, despite being held from the conditioning test: “The guys that we held for injury reasons and other circumstances will do extra conditioning with the strength and conditioning staff. He is still on very much a limited basis. His team reps, we will determine those each days just with where he is with it.”
On his impression of McCown and QB Johnny Manziel on Day 1: “It is hard to say. There were some good balls thrown out there. I thought defensively, we made some plays. (DB) Joe Haden showed his usual form breaking on a ball. (DB) Tramon Williams made a heck of a play on another one. I will reserve that judgement again until I watch the tape. I thought both those guys did some good things. What I liked about it, regardless after the ball was snapped, is the command in the huddle and the knowledge of the offense and to be able to take a play and if a guy was lined up wrong and move him and just the way the plays are being called and the cadence. Sometimes that takes some time. We’re further ahead this year than we were a year ago with that for all the quarterbacks.”
On what WR Dwayne Bowe brings to the team: “A proven veteran who has had solid NFL production. It’s a skillset that we need to have in that room. You look at having some of the other smaller, explosive guys – Hawk (WR Andrew Hawkins) and Gabe (WR Taylor Gabriel); (WR Travis) Benjamin is a little bit bigger but not much – that you need that big receiver that can make a contested catch. He does an excellent job on the back-shoulder throws. He made one today. He does a real nice job getting his feet down. Obviously, he’s shown why we brought him here.”
On OL Cameron Erving wearing braces on each knees, and if it’s a carryover from college: “Yeah. that is optional for those guys. Guys are used to doing it. They can go ahead and wear them. It is just personal preference.”
On Erving playing with the second team and if that is due to veterans retaining the starting roles with him having to earn first-team reps: “Sure. We feel the starting five from a year ago is a solid group. If Cam wants to break into that lineup, that’s not going to be handed to him. He is going to have to earn it.”
On Erving, (OL Andrew) McDonald and (Ryan) Seymour mixing in with the first team: “Just rotating those guys. Especially since those five [starting] guys played so much, until Alex got hurt, a year ago, there aren’t any problems mixing and matching those guys. Those five are known quantities for us. We have to know that next tier, where they rank and putting them in situations where they are not always going against the second string defense so we put them up against some of the starters, as well.”
On DL Armonty Bryant situation switching between DL and LB, considering he played primarily with the DL today: “He will do it, but the individual stuff – since the vast majority of what he will do is defensive line, there will be days where we will emphasize outside backer for him and he might do some separate drills with (outside linebackers) Coach (Brian) Fleury with the outside backers. He is primarily a defensive lineman, but he will moonlight every once and a while as an outside backer. We are still working on some basic stuff, but his skillset, we can stand him up and put him out there, and he has shown in the spring that he is capable of doing it.”

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...g-camp-1.612128

Ok... So PT did 'practice', just not officially cleared testing?. Seems unconventional. But whatever.

* Injury report: Among the players who did not participate in practice were receiver Marlon Moore, running back Glenn Winston, cornerback Charles Gaines, linebacker Darius Eubanks and defensive lineman Jacobbi McDaniel … Defensive tackle Phil Taylor did participate in some drills but will be held out of team drills, Pettine said

funny Armonty (Bryant) practiced and didnt take the test either.

Can you clarify what you mean? Do you mean from coaches or fans? He was the leading rusher last year, though he was pretty even stat-wise with Crow. Crow had three more TDs, but was used more in goal line plays. Crow gets a lot of love too, especially from fans, but they were both very productive considering they were sitting behind Tate for the first month of the season.

I'm not a huge fan of the two back system, (I think it disrupts momentum,) but having West run the rock isn't a bad thing particularly when you consider he had three games where he ran for (basically) a hundred yards and protected the ball well. (Crow lost two fumbles last year and dropped two today.) I also like what I've heard and read about West and his off-season work ethic, so all in all, the love is probably justified.

Browns training camp Day 1: Shocking the system and easing in
Jul 30, 2015 -- 2:34pm
By Tony Grossi | ESPNCleveland.com

• Easing in: Coach Mike Pettine limited his team’s first day on the field to about two hours. This was the second in a three-day “acclimation period” before the pads go on and the pace intensifies on Saturday. There weren’t a lot of highlights, but Pettine was pleased with what he called “a typical first day.” “This is a shock to the system and our recovery from here is very important,” he said. “No matter how hard you train over the summer, there’s no way to replicate this. I thought our guys handled it well. We threw a lot at them and … it was clear to see that our guys are in shape and they got into their books over the summer. It was a good start.”

• Getting to know you: Running back Isaiah Crowell had ball security issues as a rookie, so it wasn’t comforting to see Josh McCown and Crowell having exchange problems early in the practice. After the first, they spent time together with coordinator John DeFilippo – then had another fumbled handoff shortly thereafter. The Crow also dropped a short pass a while later. “That’s why we have camp,” Pettine said. “It’s hard for him when he had time off to simulate that. That’s a priority not for just for him but for all our guys handling the football.”

• Spin it: On the first play of the first 11-on-11 drill, McCown spun the ball hard on a rope to the left sideline where Dwayne Bowe snatched it from cornerback Tramon Williams just as Bowe’s second foot touched down at the sideline. Throw. Catch. Bang, bang. If those two guys could develop some chemistry and put together their best years …

• It’s early: Johnny Manziel had a sequence to forget when he took over with the second team offense. First two plays would have been sacks. Third play, Manziel avoided a sack and had an interception dropped by defensive back Kendall James. Fourth play, Manziel’s pass was deflected at the line of scrimmage and the ball thudded to the ground. There were a couple times in that drill and in another period when DeFilippo yelled to Manziel to get out of the huddle and get the play off. Overall, though, Pettine included Manziel in this general comment about the play of the quarterbacks: “What I liked was the command in the huddle and the knowledge of the offense, being able to take a play and if a guy’s lined up wrong, move him. That takes some time (to acquire). We’re further ahead this year than we were a year ago. All the quarterbacks.”

• T.P.’s first day: Terrelle Pryor’s first-ever practice as an NFL receiver – wearing No. 87 – was universally praised as a positive first step in his conversion from quarterback. “He looks great in a uniform, I can tell you that,” Pettine said, not exaggerating. Cornerback Joe Haden said, “He’s huge. He can run. He looks the part, for sure. It looks like it can work.” Pryor looked natural catching the ball and blending in with the receivers in position drills. “I think he would have some confidence coming out of today,” Pettine said. Pryor garnered the largest media contingent after practice and spoke sincerely of embracing this career move. We’ll have much more to come on Pryor on espncleveland.com.

• Injury report: Among the players who did not participate in practice were receiver Marlon Moore, running back Glenn Winston, cornerback Charles Gaines, linebacker Darius Eubanks and defensive lineman Jacobbi McDaniel … Defensive tackle Phil Taylor did participate in some drills but will be held out of team drills, Pettine said, as he continues catching up on extra conditioning … Center Alex Mack looked like his old self in his first team practice since fracturing a fibula last year. Pettine said the challenge of the coaches and trainers is to “save Alex from himself” and give him sufficient time off.

• Quick hitters: Rookie lineman Cameron Erving is wearing bulky braces to protect both knees out of habit. He did it at Florida State and coaches leave it up to each lineman to wear them … Rookie receiver Vince Mayle had a few drops, but Pettine chalked them up to taking passes for the first time since having a cast removed from a broken thumb suffered at the Senior Bowl … Running back Shaun Draughn seems to take a lot of reps. Pettine said all the running backs will receive reps with the first offense … Haden predicted a big season for second-year receiver Taylor Gabriel. “He’s going to be special,” the cornerback said of one of the team’s fastest players.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=47681

j/c:

I find this to be an interesting (and rather uncommon in recent years) statistic:



https://twitter.com/spotrac

Agreed. Plus having the same guys from past years still holding down their starting spots.

Cleveland Browns training camp scribbles about Terrelle Pryor, Dwayne Bowe, quarterbacks and more -- Terry Pluto

BEREA, Ohio -- Scribbles in my Cleveland Browns notebook as training camp opens:

1. The Browns have two very, very big receivers. The first is Terrelle Pryor, the former Ohio State and Oakland Raiders quarterback being converted to receiver. He's listed at 6-foot-4 and 223 pounds and looks bigger. He made a couple of nice catches. There will be plenty of reports about Pryor all during camp. But it was a very good first day for him.

2. The other big receiver is Dwayne Bowe. The veteran is listed at 6-foot-2 and 222 pounds. Like Pryor, he is a very large target. He also has caught 532 NFL passes. I asked Mike Pettine about Bowe, who said: "You look at having some of the other smaller, explosive guys – Hawk (WR Andrew Hawkins) and Gabe (WR Taylor Gabriel) ... (WR Travis) Benjamin is a little bit bigger but not much. You need that big receiver (who) can make a contested catch. Bowe does an excellent job on the back-shoulder throws. He made one today. He does a real nice job getting his feet down. Obviously, he's shown why we brought him here."

3. Benjamin had a very good day catching passes mostly from Josh McCown. The Browns will not be in full pads until Saturday. So this was more like an extension of spring time OTAs. But having Bowe will make a difference because of his size and strength. Their biggest receiver of consequence last season was Miles Austin, listed at 6-foot-2 and 215 pounds. Bowe looks much larger.

4. When he comes on the field with the second team defense, it's Justin Gilbert who attracts a lot of attention. Can the first-rounder from 2014 leave his disastrous rookie season behind? But the young defensive back who impressed me in the OTAs and again Thursday was Pierre Desir, the fourth-rounder from 2014. At 6-2 and 206 pounds, he has the size to cover taller receivers. Veteran Tramon Williams (signed from Green Bay) is starting at cornerback along with Joe Haden. Gilbert and Desir are batting for backup spots.

5. The Johnny Manziel report: It was the first day of camp and Manziel had at least two passes batted down. He was "sacked" a few times. He missed a few throws to open receivers. His best delivery was a 30-yarder to rookie Vince Mayle, who dropped it. He made good throw to Kevin Cone, who caught it for about 25 yards. Cone has been with Atlanta and is a longshot to make the team. Overall, it was a rough day for Manziel -- and it also was the first of camp.

6. Pettine praised Manziel for knowing the offense, getting the guys lined up right -- things before the ball is snapped. He didn't want to dissect much about how Manziel actually played. But that makes sense. McCown is the starter. Manziel is the backup. And it's refreshing compared to a year ago where everything about Manziel was so over-exposed and over-analyzed.

7. McCown was poised in the pocket and in control of the offense. He threw a nice sideline pass to Bowe -- the play that was later praised by Pettine. McCown looked like a guy who is in his 13th NFL season. At 6-4 and 218 pounds, he also has the size of the typical AFC North quarterback. I wrote about the Browns in the AFC North in an earlier story.

8. Tight end Rob Housler is 6-5, 220 pounds. He had some good catches. Housler had 45 receptions for Arizona in 2012, then 39 in 2013. But he caught only nine last year. The Browns wanted a tight end who can be a viable receiver. Housler has the size and speed to at least look the part. Now we'll see if the 27-year-old can deliver.

9. Rookie Duke Johnson lined up all over the field. The running back not only was in the backfield, but in the slot and even as an extra wide receiver. The ability to catch passes and do it from different formations is something that separates Johnson from backfield mates Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West. I'm excited to see what Johnson can do in this offense.

10. Rookies Danny Shelton and Cameron Erving both started with the second string. Shelton was in the middle of the defensive line. Erving played mostly right guard. The coaches don't want to hand any rookie a starting spot so early in camp.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf...ncart_big-photo

I'm in your neighborhood. I live in Holland...maybe we can catch a game sometime during the season.

About West. I'm already on record stating I believe West is as talented as Crowell. On the field the thing I want to see West improve on is being decisive through the hole.

I don't like the idea that this is an "either, or" proposition. I think both guys can help this team. He had some unspecified attitude issues that Pettine addressed by curtailing his PT. I believe to some extent West isn't as well liked because of the way he comes across. He was involved in some ill behavior on his twitter account. I started looking at it after it came to my attention. Lately he seems to have put that behind him. But he still has an obvious chip on his shoulder and a general east coast edginess about him. I think this is a factor. JMO.

And truth be told, I don't really care if he blocks all that well. I want him running or going out in pass plays. I don't think McCoy is all that great of a blocker either.

Here's how I'd use the runningbacks. Start West and Johnson, in a two back set, keep it the whole first half, and the first offensive series of the 2nd half.
2nd offensive series of the 3rd quarter, bring in Crowell, (fresh legs,) for the meat of the game, in a single back, with 3 wides, or with the fullback. This allows you to feature all of them, and everybody has a defined role.
If West gets a hundred yards in the first half, and Crowell gets a hundred yards in the 2nd half, and if Johnson gets a couple/few catches and some positive runs too, then they'll be hard to beat.
They could rotate situationaly and keep those deifined roles then each would have a chance to shine.

+1,agree..West danced too much in hole for me, use to his old competition vs NFL..get what you can get..AND he was big fish, had limelight...like Crow, but hate turnovers, can't wait to see how we use Johnson...don't see us keeping FB or using two back sets, but I could be wrong...GO Browns!!!

I didn't like a lot of what I saw from West last year (and I'd bet Pettine didn't either). Too much jitterbug not enough north/south production.

Plus, his diva attitude that he acquired from being the MAN in college needs to be forgotten about ... or else he'll be gone IMO

I do feel West has something to prove. I'm also inclined to believe that he will prove it.

I agree, he needs to hit the hole more decisively, I'm hoping that year two and renewed focus helps that happen.

Would love to get together for a game so stay in touch.

j/c:

Listening/watching to Training Camp Live on the Browns' website and Zegura just mentioned that he feels Desmond Bryant is in the best shape he's seen since being in Cleveland.

That's a great sign.

Huge. I think we've seen enough to know when Des is healthy, he can be extremely disruptive.

On a side note, I really like that Nathan Zegura (sp?) reporter/host. He's not a fluff.

Yeah, I really like the combo of him and Matt Wilheim. They play the optimistic card for sure, but I like the content overall.

Terrell Pryor