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+1, just like us...sweet...I'd love for Manziel to beat out McCown...don't see it this early...those who believe you learn more in the fire vs watching for a bit...hope Johnny learned winging it doesn't work with big boys...if McCown plays, hope he plays his best...GO Browns!!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
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.hope Johnny learned winging it doesn't work with big boys well its what McCown does. he is his mentor. so not much chance of that. jmo
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.hope Johnny learned winging it doesn't work with big boys well its what McCown does. he is his mentor. so not much chance of that. jmo I got into a deep conversation with a buddy of mine about how much, really and truly given the situation and the theory of "helping someone who can take your job" and also factoring the endless battling/questions with the media about the hype with a first-round selection that we made a trade to accomplish - that Hoyer actually helped JF? I would say he wasn't as open a mentor as one could think and it's understandable. Josh McCown making his $ in any way and is at the end of the career path in the NFL I am sure, so I think he'll help all the QBs in that room with disgregard to the threat of him losing his starter role. That in itself, IMO, is a big plus.
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Agreed, The main difference between Hoyer and McCown is that Hoyer still sees himself as the answer to a team's starting QB needs while McCown realizes he's never gonna be a long term answer to anyone's QB problems, though he may give you a good enough season to pull a Trent Dilfer given the right situation.
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I'm sure it was mentioned in the previous 17 pages, but I think A LOT of McCown's INTs can be attributed to playing behind a terrible OL. If we can give this guy some time to sit back in the pocket, he has a rocket arm. The kind of arm NEEDED to succeed in Cleveland in December. I watched a handful of TB game's last year and McCown took a BEATING. Factor in a terrible defense that always made the offense play catch up and of course the INTs are going to come in bunches. I think there is a REAL CHANCE that McCown could have a really good year this year. If we support him with a strong defense and running game, we have the opportunity to surprise. 
here's to you here's to me, browns fans we'll always be. but if by chance we should disagree, to heck with you and here's to me!
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rex grossman to mccown. we might need to find a qb guys....
I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
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Recognizing this is a clip showing highlights and recognizing it's just a tiny piece of what went on that year for the Bears and McCown, the thing that stood out to me is that McCown had two things going for him that year that he didn't have in Tampa.
He had an Oline that protected him and he had receivers that made it look easy.
He had talented receivers in tampa but damn, his line was awful
If our line is as good as most believe it can be, then we just need to have the WR show up and maybe, just maybe he can get the job done.
Still, no matter how you look at it,, No matter what happens, He's just not the long term answer.
Last edited by Damanshot; 07/27/15 02:27 PM.
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McCown is just here to manage the game,and help JM (if possible) Hoyer should have acted like a pro about that situation,and things would have went more smoothly for everyone.McCown will at least teach the kid how to prepare each week.
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You mean prepare for "flipper" passes?... 
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McCown is just here to manage the game,and help JM (if possible) Hoyer should have acted like a pro about that situation,and things would have went more smoothly for everyone.McCown will at least teach the kid how to prepare each week. In all fairness, teaching preparation should fall under the guidance of the QB Coach....... I think having a mentor is great, but Johnny's biggest mentor, at least when it comes to homework/preparation, should be the QB Coach. The Vet QB might pass along some tips and tricks that work for him. Give some words of encouragement or explain how to deal with a situation, but the guy most responsible is the QB Coach. Sometimes I think we focus too much on Veteran QB's as "Mentors" and forget that there's a coach on this team whose full time job is to train like 3 or 4 guys....... Like having Ken Dorsey on the team because he was "such a good mentor".
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McCown is just here to manage the game,and help JM (if possible) Hoyer should have acted like a pro about that situation,and things would have went more smoothly for everyone.McCown will at least teach the kid how to prepare each week. Just to get this straight... what makes JM so special? I mean, 51+ other players and coaches always talked about how much of a team player Hoyer was, but because he didn't take enough time out of his day preparing to hold JM's hand and wipe his butt for him, he's somehow no longer a team player, or unprofessional? I agree with you that McCown's job is to manage the game and provide vet experience installing the new offense. But his role and responsibility to be JM's 'mentor' isn't any greater than Hoyer's would have been. McCown's responsibility is to the TEAM first, not JM.
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Big opportunity isn’t lost on Cleveland Browns QB Josh McCown Link Why is Josh McCown the right man to lead the Cleveland Browns at quarterback when training camp begins Thursday? Coach Mike Pettine will tell you it’s because he’s experienced and has a savvy approach. Offensive coordinator John DeFilippo has said McCown is a much better quarterback now than he was back in 2007. But for McCown himself, the story is about getting a chance: He’s as hungry to make the playoffs as he is to prove he’s a legitimate NFL starting quarterback. “There are only 32 opportunities like this in the league,” McCown said. “I’m not taking it lightly.” What’s telling about the 36-year-old McCown is he did not come into the Browns’ facility walking on egg shells. From the moment he arrived in April for OTAs, McCown took command in offensive meetings and made it a point to build strong personal relationships with the coaching staff, teammates and even staff members. McCown isn’t just a mentor for quarterbacks Johnny Manziel and Connor Shaw – he’s putting in energy and focus for the entire team. Last week, McCown took time away from his vacation to throw routes to newly signed receiver Terrelle Pryor in Charlotte. He regularly eats lunch with his offensive lineman or is seen upstairs chatting with scouts. His actions and words have married himself to the success of the Browns, and that’s the way he wants it. “I know I have a great hand in winning and losing the ball games,” McCown said. “As a player, especially the older you get, you appreciate what winning is more and more. For me, shooting down to a couple of Cavs games this year and watching this city’s passion for sports, you realize what we can give to Cleveland.” Now that culture and the groundwork have been laid, McCown’s next challenge is fully mastering DeFilippo’s offense. It was clear from observers of mini-camp the offense, especially the passing game, took tremendous strides right before summer vacation. “How we evolve as a passing game, we’ll have to see,” McCown said. “When we get the pads on, different guys emerge. “But what I’ve seen since the spring is this: We’ve got enough stuff going that we can become who we need to become to win football games.” A longer interview with McCown and Nathan Zegura can be seen Wednesday at 7 p.m. on NewsChannel 5’s Browns Training Camp Preview Special.
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It's as easy to spot a Kevin Jones article [sic] as it is to spot a Grossi article.
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LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Big opportunity isn’t lost on Cleveland Browns QB Josh McCown Link We’ve got enough stuff going that we can become who we need to become to win football games.” Read, absorb, and embrace...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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The NFL’s All-Bad-Contracts Team Quarterback: Josh McCown, Browns Contract Flaws: Paying for the Outlier, The Marginal Talent McCown, the subject of a bidding war between the Bills and Browns this offseason, was a replacement-level backup for years before producing a stunning 224-pass sample with the Bears in 2013. That run was driven by a totally unsustainable interception rate of 0.4 percent, 10 times below his previous career average of 4.0 percent. The Buccaneers bit on the premise that McCown’s 2013 was more meaningful than his first 1,113 attempts and found that he was still Josh McCown; despite possessing Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans at wide receiver, McCown threw interceptions on 4.3 percent of his throws and saw his QBR fall from a league-high 85.1 in 2013 to 32.8 last year, a figure that only topped that of Jags rookie Blake Bortles. OK, so lesson learned, he’s still the same Josh McCown. But then why are the Browns convinced that last year was really the fluke? After McCown was paid about the veteran’s minimum for years and then struggled mightily last year, Cleveland outbid Buffalo for the right to give McCown another chance. The Browns guaranteed $6.25 million to McCown over the next two seasons to serve as their veteran stopgap ahead of Johnny Manziel, which doesn’t seem to fit any logical plan. The Browns aren’t one competent quarterback away from competing, and even if they were, McCown is 36 and has delivered one competent half-season of play during a 13-year career. If you think Manziel has a prayer, don’t pay meaningful guaranteed money to put somebody in his way. And if you don’t, at least try to find somebody with even a modicum of upside. Brian Hoyer wasn’t the answer, but there was at least some logic in using Hoyer, who had some tools and hadn’t been given much of a chance to prove anything about his professional future. We know what Josh McCown is by now. Center: Alex Mack, Browns Contract Flaw: Ever Fallen in Love With a Player You Shouldn’t Have? Mack is a great center, but when he wanted to leave as a restricted free agent, the Jaguars signed him to an onerous offer sheet that seemed impossible for the Browns to match. Impossibly weighted in Mack’s favor, the contract terms included a no-trade clause, $18 million in guaranteed base salaries over 2014 and 2015, and a player option to void the final three years of the deal after the end of 2015. Mack’s agent discouraged the Browns from matching … and they did it anyway. A year later, that looks like a mistake. Mack was excellent before fracturing his fibula last season, and if he isn’t the same player this year, he can decline his opt-out and collect another $8 million guaranteed in 2016. If he does play well, Mack will opt out and there’s nothing the Browns can do to keep him. All of this because the Browns tried to save $1.6 million by slapping Mack with the transition tag as opposed to the franchise tag in 2014. And while they drafted Florida State lineman Cameron Erving in the first round this April to serve as Mack’s long-term replacement at center, Erving represents the opportunity cost of being unable to use that pick on a much-needed wide receiver http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-nfls-all-bad-contracts-team/
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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OK, so lesson learned, he’s still the same Josh McCown. But then why are the Browns convinced that last year was really the fluke? After McCown was paid about the veteran’s minimum for years and then struggled mightily last year, Cleveland outbid Buffalo for the right to give McCown another chance. The Browns guaranteed $6.25 million to McCown over the next two seasons to serve as their veteran stopgap ahead of Johnny Manziel, which doesn’t seem to fit any logical plan. I really feel that Farmer and Pettine don't have a clue about QBs and that could eventually be their downfall.
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Early odds on McCown-Manziel, Hoyer-Mallett and other QB battles
By Jared Dubin | Staff Writer
July 28, 2015 9:13 pm ETSome NFL training camps have started already, while others are but days away. Of course, the start of training camp often brings it with one of America's favorite pastimes: quarterback battles. There's an old saying that if your team has two quarterbacks, you really have none, but that won't stop us from taking a look at five teams with QB battles likely to ensue (to varying degrees) during camp. Below, we have odds on each battle courtesy of BookMaker Sportsbook (odds are for which quarterback starts in Week 1), as well as a quick breakdown of the relative strengths and weaknesses of each candidate and a prediction for each team. Cleveland Browns JOHNNY MANZIEL +230 JOSH MCCOWN -300 McCown is the "known commodity" here, but what we know about him isn't exactly great. With the exception of a five-game stretch filling in for the injured Jay Cutler in Chicago in 2013, McCown has never proven himself to be an above-average passer. In the rest of his career, he's registered just a 57.6 percent completion rate while averaging 6.4 yards per attempt and throwing 48 touchdowns against 58 interceptions. He's now 35 years old, so to say it's unlikely he shows sudden improvement next season is being extremely kind. It's not going to happen. Going with McCown would basically just be a sure sign the Browns no longer have any confidence that Manziel can be an NFL quarterback. He certainly didn't inspire much confidence with his performance last season, but there's a reason this regime tabbed him with a first round pick a little more than a year ago – he's a very talented football player. Whether he's willing to put in the work, on and off the field to have that talent translate to the NFL is another question, and it would be pretty damning for Manziel if he really can't beat out McCown in camp. Prediction: McCown starts Week 1, struggles, and Manziel takes over a few weeks into the season New York Jets RYAN FITZPATRICK +500 GENO SMITH -800 This is another case of a "known" veteran commodity squaring off against a younger player with more upside, but the difference here is that Smith has actually shown occasional flashes of good play in his two years with the Jets. His performance in last year's season finale against the Dolphins wasn't as good as his perfect passer rating makes it seem, but it showed that he's able to take the plays in front of him and make the smart throw. Fitzpatrick, much like McCown, is a veteran whose ceiling is extremely low. Fitz's ceiling is more "solid-average" than "bad" like McCown, but he still would not provide much upside for a team that needs to take the training wheels off its offense like these Jets. Prediction: Smith runs away with the job in camp and keeps it all season Philadelphia Eagles SAM BRADFORD -500 MARK SANCHEZ +350 I'm honestly not sure why this "battle" is even on the board. Chip Kelly gave up significant assets to bring Bradford to Philly, and unless he gets hurt in preseason, there's almost no way he's not the starter. Prediction: Bradford keeps the starting job until he inevitably gets hurt at some point Buffalo Bills MATT CASSEL +280 EJ MANUEL +125 TYROD TAYLOR +180 Sean Wagner-McGough broke this one down a few weeks back, and my feeling is the same as his: I like Tyrod Taylor to win the job. Cassel, with the exception of his first season with the Patriots, has never proven himself to be a consistently above-average passer, while Manuel has not shown many signs that he'll ever develop into one himself. Taylor has good speed and a strong arm (that was basically his only strength coming out of school), and in offensive coordinator Greg Roman's offense, those wheels should serve him well. Think about how Colin Kaepernick had early success in Roman's schemes and it's not that hard to see Taylor accomplishing some similar things. Taylor's weaknesses basically match Manuel's – he's not very accurate and he doesn't handle the rush all that well. But he has some obvious things working in his favor, and if he shines in preseason, he could take this down. Prediction: Taylor starts, but all three players eventually get a shot and the Bills go back into the quarterback market next offseason Houston Texans BRIAN HOYER +155 RYAN MALLETT -200 Bill O'Brien has two former Tom Brady backups to choose from here. Hoyer has been a consistently below-average player throughout his career thus far, while Mallett has thrown only 79 passes and not had much more success. Honestly, this is a toss-up. Prediction: Houston rolls with the younger Mallett because he has a bigger arm. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...ther-qb-battles
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I'd be utterly shocked and amazed if the odds were actually this good for Manziel.
He has to beat out both McCown and Shaw (something he legitimately couldn't do last year). At this point in his sobriety - if that is actually happening - he is still trying to live a life he never has. I'd say that the chances of him doing that AND progressing as a football player are pretty slim.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Apparently Manziel's day of practice today was described as horrible on the RBS. They said he can't see over the line.
On a side note, I came in to work late today. I left my house at 8:30am PST. I have a 30 minute drive to work. I was really excited to turn on my itune radio app and listen to interviews and updates on how camp went this morning. When I turned on the RBS they were just wrapping up an interview with Alex Mack. For the next 30 minutes after that they did not talk any Browns football. Other than saying Manziel stunk I got no football from the RBS while they were there in person on the first day of camp. Amazing. I swear those guys can drone on about so much crap. They talked about the Indians and the Patriots and some sound bite from John Rocker. Unbelieveable.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Apparently Manziel's day of practice today was described as horrible on the RBS. They said he can't see over the line.
On a side note, I came in to work late today. I left my house at 8:30am PST. I have a 30 minute drive to work. I was really excited to turn on my itune radio app and listen to interviews and updates on how camp went this morning. When I turned on the RBS they were just wrapping up an interview with Alex Mack. For the next 30 minutes after that they did not talk any Browns football. Other than saying Manziel stunk I got no football from the RBS while they were there in person on the first day of camp. Amazing. I swear those guys can drone on about so much crap. They talked about the Indians and the Patriots and some sound bite from John Rocker. Unbelieveable. That's par for the course with the RBS. Their sports talk/ random garbage ratio is not good. If you can, see if you can stream local CBS radio stations and then check out 92.3 FM, The FAN. Much, much better. You'll get Baskin and Phelps during the aforementioned time range (Jeff Phelps from the Cavaliers' broadcasts). Not my favorite duo but much better than the clowns they have on ESPNCleveland.
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I've tried 92.3 but they are just so bland. Might have to give them another chance.
I usually like the RBS, but it was particularly frustrating to go 30 minutes with no Browns talk on the first day of training camp that they were there in person to witness. Why was John Rocker even coming up?
Just terrible.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I'm sure it was mentioned in the previous 17 pages, but I think A LOT of McCown's INTs can be attributed to playing behind a terrible OL. If we can give this guy some time to sit back in the pocket, he has a rocket arm. The kind of arm NEEDED to succeed in Cleveland in December. I watched a handful of TB game's last year and McCown took a BEATING. Factor in a terrible defense that always made the offense play catch up and of course the INTs are going to come in bunches. I think there is a REAL CHANCE that McCown could have a really good year this year. If we support him with a strong defense and running game, we have the opportunity to surprise. Did you watch the 20 other teams he was on before last year? I'm sure all those lousy seasons weren't his fault either. Why, he's the greatest QB to ever live. And now that he's in mighty Cleveland there can be no other result but a championship. LMAO McCown has lost twice as many games as he has won. He had ONE moderately successful season in Chicago where he only threw 13 touchdowns. The most he has EVER thrown in a season. Yes, I can see why we should all believe he's the next Dan Marino. A guy that has never thrown more than 13 TD passes in a season is certainly going to fit RIGHT in here in Cleveland. He's perfect for this team. And with Johnny Dumbass backing him up? Doesn't get much better than that.
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I'd be utterly shocked and amazed if the odds were actually this good for Manziel.
He has to beat out both McCown and Shaw (something he legitimately couldn't do last year). At this point in his sobriety - if that is actually happening - he is still trying to live a life he never has. I'd say that the chances of him doing that AND progressing as a football player are pretty slim. Of course the chances are slim. The chances for him succeeding in the NFL were astronomical the day we drafted him. He is tiny. Roger Goodell TOWERED over him that night. Made him look like a Pop Warner player up there. Add in that he's a running QB and he's going to be getting hurt. A LOT. He couldn't survive two full games without getting blasted. Then this spring when he was supposed to be studying the brand new playbook in our brand new offense, he was in rehab. If Johnny is forced to play at all this year because of an injury to McCown or whomever is under cneter? It will be FUGLY. I was praying we would trade him at draft time while he still had a tiny amount of value. After this season he won't be worth a 5th rounder.
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Yes..."The Flipper part 2".....(what happened to the emoticons? I'm on iphone...this stinks!)
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Reality, McCown was best available QB, he chose Browns over Bills, NO ONE stated he's Marino...JMHO, we let Hoyer walk because he imploded second half of season AND wanted to see what JF had...not much last year, BUT at least now he's working at his craft...time will tell if McCown is OK...JMHO, we can win games with him OK....GO Browns!!!
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
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]we let Hoyer walk because he imploded second half of season AND wanted to see what JF had...not much last year, BUT at least now he's working at his craft...time will tell if McCown is OK...JMHO, we can win games with him OK....GO Browns!!! I always wondered if Hoyer imploded because he simply got tired. Coming off an ACL tear, did his body just break down. A lot of the throw comes from the legs. I guess we'll never know. But it's one of the reasons why I was hoping we'd re-sign him. His relationship with Manziel didn't matter much to me. As I've said, Manziel's mentor should be the QB coach. The guy coaches like 3 or 4 players. He should have plenty of one-on-one time with Manziel. The whole "Mentor QB" thing to me has always seemed a bit ridiculous I hope McCown gives Manziel all the help he can, but I don't think it'll be much. That's the QB Coach's job
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I always wondered if Hoyer imploded because he simply got tired. Coming off an ACL tear, did his body just break down. A lot of the throw comes from the legs. Every time I see this thought posted, I have to give it a bump. The same thing occurred to me before the season was even over. His mechanics looked totally shot... and you don't just get a lobotomy at the 7-4 point in the season. SOMETHING else was wrong. Folks talked about Hoyer mentally folding under pressure, but that one's hard for me to swallow, too. If you take the measure of his strength under pressure for a single game and use it as a barometer, I'd say he was plenty capable of holding up. Those comebacks weren't flukes... he rallied the team and played us back into those games. The more I think about it, the more fatigue makes sense. Sometimes the simplest answer is closest to the truth. I'm one of those fans who didn't really want to see him leave, but I'm not carrying a torch for him either. I simply saw 2 different QB's in him... and wonder which was the real Bran Hoyer. I hate unsolved mysteries. During that "Hoya the Destroya" phase last year, I saw a capable (if not spectacular) QB who knew how to run the O, made good decisions, and wasn't losing us games. That guy we saw in the second half looked like he'd just been introduced to the game 3 weeks prior. Baffling.
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[quote]During that "Hoya the Destroya" phase last year, I saw a capable (if not spectacular) QB who knew how to run the O, made good decisions, and wasn't losing us games. That guy we saw in the second half looked like he'd just been introduced to the game 3 weeks prior.
Baffling. Agreed. Except, I'd never have called him a spectacular QB. Just capable. But the reality is, that's all we needed. Folks are really doom and gloom with McCown. But truth is, we have a good O-Line, a good stable of RBs, WRs equal to that of last year (or better). Plus, McCown has experience in this offense. He's being put in a pretty darn good position I'm looking forward to this season, and I think we'll prove a lot of these doubters wrong. Our defense has improved, I like our head coach (and thus have faith in his O-Coordinator selection). Do I think McCown will be spectacular? Nope. Even equal to that of early Hoyer, probably not. BUT, we were 7-4 before our 5 game losing streak to finish the season. This team has talent, and I think we'll probably be middle of the pack. So if things go well...... that might mean playoffs, or at least playoff hunt!
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 07/30/15 10:57 PM.
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j/c:
I think it's crazy that so many people are ignoring McCown's career. It's not like he's some young pup, the guy is 36 years old and has sucked for a long, long time. He was coaching high school for one year because not one team would sign him. Now people are talking about how they think he is going to do well in Cleveland.
Of course, fans were saying the same things about guys like Timid, BQ, Delhommme, and Weeden, too.
It's kind of interesting to see how the positive thoughts build off of each other until we get to a point where so many have convinced themselves--and others--that they are the ones w/the rational and logical arguments.
Then, the season starts and reality slaps them right in the face.
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j/c:
I think it's crazy that so many people are ignoring McCown's career. It's not like he's some young pup, the guy is 36 years old and has sucked for a long, long time. He was coaching high school for one year because not one team would sign him. Now people are talking about how they think he is going to do well in Cleveland.
Of course, fans were saying the same things about guys like Timid, BQ, Delhommme, and Weeden, too.
It's kind of interesting to see how the positive thoughts build off of each other until we get to a point where so many have convinced themselves--and others--that they are the ones w/the rational and logical arguments.
Then, the season starts and reality slaps them right in the face. Again, NO ONE is ignoring his career. This is something you've attempted to manufacture around here for the past couple of months. It's utter nonsense. McCown has had a subpar career and is a journeyman QB for the most part. Maybe at best a Journeyman QB. Everyone acknowledges that. What posters are 'hoping' for is the capability seen in Chicago- albeit just a five game stretch. One last flash in the pan year with similar team makeup from that year in Chicago--- alongside an amazing offensive line, solid running game and bigger WR targets. It's a very long shot this all comes together but this is what people are 'hoping' happens and you cannot take that away from them. Hoping McCown does well in no way shape or form dismisses his career like you are trying to convey.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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well when your HC says he is doing all he can to minimize the impact of the QB position that pretty much says it all.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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... they are the ones w/the rational and logical arguments. I never said that my belief/optimism in McCown is rational/logical. It is based on gut instinct and what I saw last season and the improvements this off-season. Nothing more, nothing less...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 07/31/15 08:28 AM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Again, NO ONE is ignoring his career. This is something you've attempted to manufacture around here for the past couple of months. It's utter nonsense. Your lack of reading comprehension and hate for me blinds you from the reality of the situation. I was going to go back and post several quotes to confirm what I said, but why waste the time when you will just ignore it?
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Don't worry...I'll do it for you. There seems to be a lot of people jumping on the McCown bandwagon. There are a lot of excuses being made for his career. People act like our offense is so superior to the other offenses he has played with. Many of you are acting like those of us who question McCown's abilities are the crazy ones. LOL........unreal. Very similar tone to your most recent post. Claiming people are jumping on some sort of non-existent bandwagon for McCown. My response was very similar to the one I made this morning. Trying to prohibit the spread of something that does not exist. Another.... You can continue to act like those who are doubting McCown are the illogical ones, but your argument is a paper bag on a windy day. Many people have doubts about McCown. Here you are trying to create some unnecessary line-in-the-sand by calling those with questions about him "illogical". That's the majority of people around here! That's just this thread. Feel free to 'correct' me. And I don't hate you. I just think you are a very knowledgeable football poster (far more than I would ever know) that masks all that knowledge/experience with the most inconsistent(to put it lightly) and agenda-driven posts I've ever seen around here. And I feel overly compelled to point that out. That's all.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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j/c:
I think it's crazy that so many people are ignoring McCown's career. It's not like he's some young pup, the guy is 36 years old and has sucked for a long, long time. He was coaching high school for one year because not one team would sign him. Now people are talking about how they think he is going to do well in Cleveland.
Of course, fans were saying the same things about guys like Timid, BQ, Delhommme, and Weeden, too.
It's kind of interesting to see how the positive thoughts build off of each other until we get to a point where so many have convinced themselves--and others--that they are the ones w/the rational and logical arguments.
Then, the season starts and reality slaps them right in the face. Again, NO ONE is ignoring his career. This is something you've attempted to manufacture around here for the past couple of months. It's utter nonsense. McCown has had a subpar career and is a journeyman QB for the most part. Maybe at best a Journeyman QB. Everyone acknowledges that. What posters are 'hoping' for is the capability seen in Chicago- albeit just a five game stretch. One last flash in the pan year with similar team makeup from that year in Chicago--- alongside an amazing offensive line, solid running game and bigger WR targets. It's a very long shot this all comes together but this is what people are 'hoping' happens and you cannot take that away from them. Hoping McCown does well in no way shape or form dismisses his career like you are trying to convey. To take this one step further, he is now being placed within a set of circumstances that give him a fairly decent chance to succeed: a top tier o-line, a potent running game, a (potentially) very serviceable WR corps, a defense that can (hopefully) keep him on the field and a coaching staff that supports him and believes in his leadership and abilities. He is, at this point in his career and in these circumstances, the very definition of a game manager. And that is the expectation, I believe. I know it is mine. He doesn't have to light up the world, he doesn't even need to be the starter next year, he simply needs to perform well enough to make a playoff push, assuming all the other squads play to their potential. His experience, leadership and accuracy are the qualities everyone is counting on to make that happen. Is he a potential bust? Absolutely. We've all seen it before, and Delhomme is probably the best example of this type of hope gone wrong, but he didn't have this team around him and was erroneously expected to be the team savior by a worthless GM and an incompetent coach. This is not being asked of McCown, nor is it the situation he is facing. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Farmer and Pettine would put together a roster that they both are hanging their hats on only to ignore the importance of the QB situation. I am 100% certain they realize McCown isn't their franchise QB or any type of long term solution, but they surely must feel that he has the skill and experience to put together a winning season, or he wouldn't be starting. I also believe, with the increased depth on the roster, that they have an eye toward the next draft, and are in a position to leverage 2016 picks and future picks if need be to get the guy they really want, whoever that may be. Right now, they need a guy that can win games for them with the improved team they are fielding, and I believe that they feel fairly certain that they have him in McCown. So all things considered, his past is in the past, and while his career numbers are what they are and his performance to this point is what it is, it is all hardly relevant at this point. What is most relevant, right now, is how he performs under these specific set of circumstance, this year. Period. JMHO
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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He is, at this point in his career and in these circumstances, the very definition of a game manager
Sure. But in order for the game manager to be successful, two things will have to happen. 1. Run the ball effectively. My guess is defenses will prioritize taking that away from us. Ok, then what? 2. Rely on the short passing game. This is where guys like Hawkins and Gabriel can be successful and where Pryor, if he makes the team, will have to be efficient. Couple in a unknown in TE Housler. I do think the additions of Bowe and Hartline can be significant. McCown will air it out from time to time in an attempt to let his WR make a play. Hopefully the speed of Hartline and the size of Bowe will aid in that effort. The running game will be key, though, IMO.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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The running game will be key, though, IMO. Absolutely a big part of the equation, and you're right, defenses will try to stop the run, but if the passing game is adequate, if our o-line is a force, and Duke, West & Crow light it up, it will be extremely effective. Couple that with a defense that keeps the score low and we have a very real chance to be in every game. I also expect actual game planning, where the HC and the O-coord plan to exploit mismatches. What a refreshing change that will be. We saw the beginnings of it last year, I expect that to expand and improve this year.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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