DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Brady's Suspension Upheld

UPDATE 7/31/15 8:20 a.m. ET: Mortensen canceled his appearance.

rutt rowww Somebody's got some splannin

More commissioned stains on the shield , I would say.

Political reign? Goodell isn't doing anything that the collective bargaining agreement doesn't allow him to do. The players and the owners both signed off on the system that would be applied and it is being applied... It has been applied this way for a long time and they have had multiple opportunities to change it from both sides.. seems a bit disingenuous to now complain every time Goodell makes a ruling that people don't like. They gave him that power and authority.

Well it is now headed to federal court in NY. NFL Network says things are going the way of Goodell.

J/C

Tom Brady conveniently destroyed his cell phone, refused to cooperate with cell phone messages, and he continued to throw a hissy fit about all of this. You cooperate, like Farmer did, in an instance like this. You don't destroy a cell phone, and then claim "Oh, I wanted to get a new one!" Brady stands no chance on this.

I would have to agree. One person is asked for his cell phone, hands it over - and gets a 4 game suspension. Another person is asked for his cell phone, then destroys it........yet wants his 4 game suspension changed?


Something seems odd here.

Doesn't the NSA have all these texts?

They can't catch anyone else with all this data storage they've been doing, maybe they can be useful for something.

Looks like the NFL is more guilty than Brady and the Patriots. Wonder what their motivation was?

Wow. What a cluster.

Goodell is the most crooked, unethical person I've ever witnessed in sports.

This might finally actually be his undoing.

Good riddance.

Let this be a lesson to everyone too about being careful about always buying into everything you read. Too many times we read something and assume it's 100% accurate just because it's in print and someone took the time to write it. I am just as guilty as anyone. It just seems you have to read everything with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Don't judge to quickly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNdapXryZ98

LOL. Those were great. Especially the first few.

For a really interesting read go to http;//wellsroportcontext.com/



I find it incredible that this was even investagated

Hmm, there's a wrinkle in that. It could be explained as "Brady knew he was guilty, so sending the NFL to track down people in a wild goose chase in which they would give up" is a plausible course of action.

You still don't destroy a cell phone in a case like this. Brady is guilty.

Also in English, it means that the NFL has to take the word of Brady's agents that they actually provided ALL of the numbers. Given that the agents have nothing to lose by "overlooking" a few, I wouldn't believe them either. The NFL would have to go through those thousands of texts not knowing for certain that the important ones are even included.

I'm not sure who's BSing in this case, nor do I care. But this is a crappy argument.

I get that, but the fact is that the NFL lied to Mort about the numbers in regards to deflating the balls. That's pretty damning.

If I was in a high profile marriage with kids I wouldn't hand over anything from my cell phone and would destroy it to protect my family I don't care who is asking for it. It's not a crime and besides he was suspended without proof. That won't fly in federal court. No way.

In my opinion, this is the biggest thing people forget... NFL fans expect judicial type protocols, judicial procedures, and judicial outcomes from the NFL.. but the NFL has no judicial authority to make those things happen. they have one guy (or at most a small group of guys) who people may, or may not, cooperate with.. they have no subpoena power, they have no way to compel people to cooperate (other than threaten to increase their punishment a little), they have no threats for those in contempt... they have nothing but a labor agreement which is not well defined..

Yet we expect these jury type trials and verdicts... it's not going to happen.

When this gets to court, what the judge will rule on, from what I understand, is not whether Brady is guilty or innocent or beyond a reasonable doubt or any of that... .what the judge will rule on is, did the NFL follow the rules of the labor agreement, if they did, then they will let the punishment stand. Based on all that I've heard, that is what will happen.

Vincent admits Brady was disciplined under policy not given to players

Posted by Mike Florio on August 4, 2015, 11:54 PM EDT

While basic P.R. concerns prevent the NFLPA from putting it this way, the primary argument against the suspension of Tom Brady is that, even if he did what he’s accused of doing, he can’t be suspended for it.

As to Brady’s alleged “general awareness” that one or more Patriots employees were deflating footballs, the NFLPA argues that the discipline was imposed under a policy that is not distributed to players. Which, as a matter of basic labor law, prevents the NFL from disciplining Brady for any violations of the policy.

The transcript of Brady’s appeal hearing includes admissions from executive V.P. of football operations Troy Vincent that prove these two key points.

“Where do you find the policy that says footballs can’t be altered with respect to pressure? Is that going to be in the competitive integrity policy that Mr. Wells cited in his report?” attorney Jeffrey Kessler asked Vincent.

“Game-Day Operations Manual,” Vincent said.

“Is it correct, to your knowledge, that the manual is given to clubs and GMs and owners, et cetera, but the manual is not given out to players; is that correct, to your knowledge?” Kessler said.

“That’s correct, to my knowledge,” Vincent said.

“In fact, when you were a player, you were never given that manual, right?”

“No,” Vincent said.

Earlier in the hearing, Brady testified he never received a copy of the Competitive Integrity Policy.

While the NFL will argue that Brady was disciplined generally for conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game (indeed, that was the specific conclusion reached in the appeal ruling), the NFLPA will argue that labor law requires much more specificity and, fundamentally, notice as to what is prohibited.

By way of comparison, if a player were deliberately and intentionally using stickum, he arguably would be engaging in conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game, he’d be subject to only a fine, because the negotiated fine schedule allows a fine of $8,681 for having a foreign substance on the body or uniform. And other equipment or uniform violations result in a fine of only $5,787 for a first offense.

The NFL hasn’t secured via collective bargaining the ability to impose a suspension for these types of “cheating” violations, even when the player is personally committing the offense. More importantly, the NFL hasn’t informed players that they can be suspended for such behavior.

That alone, in the opinion of the NFLPA, will keep Brady from being suspended. The real question is whether Judge Richard M. Berman disagrees.

link

Mac, what do you say about Brady refusing to turn over his cell, and destroying it?

Your personal vendetta against Goodell dumfounds me.

Why do they have a policy that is not distributed to players in the first place?

Honestly, I can't believe there are people running the NFL who don't have a clue what they are doing.

Read the following and just shake my head...


Transcript proves NFL didn’t know air pressure could drop naturally

Posted by Mike Florio on August 5, 2015, 9:09 AM EDT

I’ve believed throughout the #DeflateGate saga that league-office employees who were observing the halftime testing of the footballs during the AFC Championship Game presumed that the Patriots were cheating because their footballs all had air pressure below 12.5 PSI — and because the league-office employees didn’t realize that, for scientific reasons, the air pressure inside a football drops in cold, wet conditions.

The testimony of NFL executive V.P. of football operations Troy Vincent at Tom Brady’s appeal hearing confirms that theory.

Vincent explains at page 229 that Colts G.M. Ryan Grigson told Vincent and Mike Kensil in the second quarter of the game, “We are playing with a small ball.” That prompted Vincent to tell Kensil “we probably should look at testing all of the balls from both sidelines.”

The ensuing questions from page 231 confirm the lack of awareness of the notion that, on a cold day, balls that start a game at 12.5 PSI will go under that minimum permissible inflation level.

Question: “So prior to this game, okay, had you ever heard of the Ideal Gas Law?”

Vincent: “No sir.”

Question: “Do you know if anyone in the NFL Game-Day Operations had ever discussed the impact of the Ideal Gas Law in testing footballs?”

Vincent: “Not with me.”

Question: “You had never heard to that?”

Vincent: “Never.”

This exchange demonstrates the pre-existing mindset of Vincent and others: If the balls are at 12.5 PSI before the game, they should be at 12.5 at halftime. If they’re not, and if we have an accusation from the Colts that the Patriots take air out of footballs, tampering must be the explanation.

Vincent’s testimony also confirms the lack of sensitivity to the relevant scientific principles via the steps taken (and not taken) when testing the footballs at halftime. For example, the temperature of the officials’ locker room at the time of testing wasn’t recorded. Whether the balls were wet or dry wasn’t recorded. Neither was the specific time each ball was tested, an important point since the longer a ball is back inside a warmer room, the higher the PSI will be.

Most importantly, there’s no record of the sequence in which the balls were tested. It has been presumed that the 11 Patriots’ football were tested first — and then re-filled with air — before the Colts’ footballs were tested. This theory finds support via common sense, because the official version as explained in the Ted Wells report is that only four Colts’ footballs were tested because they ran out of time. (Some would say they stopped testing Colts’ footballs because three of four came in under 12.5 PSI on one of the two gauges used.)

Even after the testing occurred and the 11 Patriots’ footballs came in under 12.5 PSI, no one in the league office considered the dynamic that causes air pressure in car tires to drop in the winter.

At page 238, Vincent explains that he spoke to NFL senior V.P. Dave Gardi about the situation after the game, telling him “because the Patriots had eleven game balls that were under compliance, that this may — we may need to do potential further investigation.” Vincent said that “Dave and I and others on our staff, we came to the conclusion that we probably need to do some additional follow-up.”

“But at that time, you didn’t know that some of the reduction could happen just because or cold or wetness or other factors, right?” Jeffrey Kessler asked Vincent. “That just wasn’t something you were aware of, correct?”

“I didn’t include science, no, sir,” Vincent said.

With no one considering science, the initial assumption became tampering, as exhibited by the tone and content of Gardi’s January 19 letter to the Patriots.

As this case continues to unfold, the errors in Gardi’s initial letter become more glaring.

“In fact, one of the game balls was inflated to 10.1 psi, far below the requirement of 12 1/2 to 13 1/2 psi,” Gardi wrote, a clear and obvious misstatement of fact that reinforces the presumption of tampering. And while some have explained away his contention that “each of the Colts’ game balls that was inspected met the requirement set forth above” by pointing out that on one of the two gauges the Colts’ balls were in compliance, Gardi’s letter prefaces that statement by pointing out that “each ball” was “inspected twice with different gauges.”

If, instead of launching that same night an investigation premised on proving that the Patriots had cheated someone had considered the notion that perhaps air pressure changes during games played in the elements, and if someone had immediately retained a scientist to examine the raw numbers under the conditions at Gillette Stadium that night, there’s a good chance that the conclusion would have been that the raw data is inconclusive at best on whether there was tampering.

But the early presumption — fueled by incorrect information given by the NFL to the Patriots and false numbers leaked by the NFL to ESPN — was that tampering had happened. So science became an afterthought, an inconvenience to be dismissed in the official report that found “more probable than not” evidence of cheating instead of what it should have been: An explanation considered seriously and thoroughly by the league office before pointing a finger at one of the 32 franchises it serves.
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So, do they never measure the balls at Halftime unless someone complains, or what?

This is a sport played in cold weather all the time. It can't be a new phenomenon.

Why should anyone have to turn over their cell phone when they have not even committed a REAL crime?

Man, do you like Big Brother, or what?

I don't know enough about the contract between the NFL and the NFLPA to say one way or the other. But if there are contractual obligations to comply with such an investigation, that may be the biggest part of this entire thing.

I do believe if you are talking about points of law that you would be correct. However if you are contractually obligated to comply with demands of an NFL investigation, that would change everything.

Tom Brady makes no bones about how he rates himself against Peyton Manning.

Brady, in an email message to an old friend made public as part of the federal Deflategate lawsuit, says the "final chapter" of his rivalry with Manning will be decided when Brady ultimately plays for seven or eight more years -- and Manning lasts only another two.

The candid email, dated Nov. 1, 2014 -- the Saturday before Brady's Patriots routed Manning's Broncos 43-21 in a Week 9 game at Foxborough -- is part of two Brady messages published Wednesday by The Boston Globe.

The emails were submitted among documents in the NFLPA's suit over his four-game suspension.
"I've got another 7 or 8 years. He has 2," Tom Brady wrote in an email to an old friend regarding Peyton Manning. "That's the final chapter." Matthew Emmons/USA TODAY Sports

"Thanks popa," Brady writes to childhood friend Kevin Brady during an email exchange discussing a Grantland story that illustrated a decline for Manning in comparing the two quarterbacks. "I've got another 7 or 8 years. He has 2. That's the final chapter. Game on."

Jay Flannelly, a blogger friend of Brady's nicknamed "Beav," goes into much deeper detail about why Brady, who is 38, is superior to Manning, who is 39.

But Flannelly had the benefit of hindsight, calling the Broncos front-runners while writing Brady the day after the blowout win.

"Manning needs things to be perfect to succeed, weather, his system, etc.," Flannelly writes. "You right about November --- HUGE"

Brady simply defers to Flannelly's analysis in his reply.

"We are some hard working grinders beav," Brady writes. "That's what our team is all about. Our best is still ahead of us."

Flannelly had also complimented Brady's performance, saying the one thing he had noticed was how well he was moving: "foot work, scrambling, keeping plays alive--- clearly u worked hard on this."

"Also agree with your postgame presser assessment--- left points on the field -- should have put a hundred on that team...FGs into TDs changes that--finnish drives," Flannelly writes, before taking a shot at the Broncos.

"Always helps when other team is DUMB--- LBer on Gronk on 2 yd line? VON MILLER!?" Flannelly adds. "I really like this team and we have a long way to go but I want ring 4! Rest, rehab, reflect--- Lets get ready for this run.

"Proud of U. Beav. GO BLUE!!! GO PATS!!! GO TB!!! GO G!!!"

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id...d-stamp-rivalry


And some wondered why Brady didn't want to have his cell phone taken/investigated?

I don't have a horse in this race and don't care, but be ready for there to be "leaks" of these convos/pics because Brady didn't play nice

....and some wonder why he didn't want to turn over his cell phone. Why in the hell was this made public?

Exactly.

I don't blame him for not wanting to turn his phone over and/or let the NFL get ahold of his personal information. There are also several articles about his reaction to the cost of a pool cover. Here is part of that article:



Read the rest here: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tom-bradys-reaction-being-told-160000166.html

See, this is BS!

Why in the world is the NFL attacking Brady? I'm not really a huge fan of the guy, but this is wrong.

Yes you do. Brady will be untouched and other than causing his team a headache, nothing will happen. If Farmer had half a brain he would have followed protocol of telling your employer to screw off.

I like it. In a world where athletes are protected from saying anything it's nice to see candid remarks still.

I'm pretty sure suspending a player without real substantial proof falls in the category that the NFL was not following the CBA rules. If the NFL and Goodell can't prove it or won't compromise with Brady the Judge will side with Brady.

I really believe the NFL owners to continue to allow Goodell to push this into Federal court is making a huge mistake.

Biting the hand that feeds is never is good thing.

Nope. The director of football operations'? Deposition showed that the NFL has never talked about it before. They didn't even know that the psi could drop in cold weather*, nor did they have any procedure to do the tests.

*Professor Lisa, a nuclear scientist (He's worked on the HLC) and a sports physics professor at OSU, wrote a piece for CBSports that the temp of that game wouldn't have reduced the balls that much (Though I did hear Mort was told the wrong psi, so it might be accurate not, not sure, but leaning no).

So these leaks were actually done by the NFLPA and not the NFL at all. This was done in defense of Brady on the part of the NFLPA. Somehow that point was overlooked or dismissed by some.