DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum GM evaluations

1. Tom Brady (6th round)
2. Aaron Rodgers (1st round 24th overall)
3. Andrew Luck (#1)
4. Peyton Manning (#1)
5. Ben Roethlisberger (1st round 11th overall)
6. Philip Rivers (1st round 4th overall)
7. Drew Brees (2nd round 1st pick)
8. Joe Flacco (1st round 18th overall)
9. Matt Ryan (#1)
10. Tony Romo (undrafted)
11. Eli Manning (#1)
12. Russell Wilson (3rd round 12th pick)
13. Matthew Stafford (#1)
14. Carson Palmer (#1)
15. Ryan Tannehill (1st round 8th overall)
16. Cam Newton (#1)
17. Jay Cutler (1st round 11th overall)
18. Alex Smith (#1)
19. Derek Carr (2nd round 1st pick)
20. Andy Dalton (2nd round 3rd pick)
21. Colin Kaepernick (2nd round 4th pick)
22. Sam Bradford (#1)
23. Teddy Bridgewater (1st round 32 overall)
24. Nick Foles (3rd round 88th overall)
25. Blake Bortles (1st round 3rd overall)
26. Jameis Winston (#1)
27. Geno Smith (2nd round 39th overall)
28. Brian Hoyer (undrafted)
29. Josh McCown (3rd round 81th overall)
30. Marcus Mariota (1st round 2nd overall)
31. Robert Griffin (1st round 2nd overall)
32. Matt Cassel (7th round)


So this list is from Sports Illustrated ranking of the QB’s. Is the list debatable? Sure. Could there be changes, etc? Sure. The point I’ am making from those questions is I didn’t make the list, I just took it from the first site I saw to get to the topic of this thread. Which is:

Over the past so many months, I have read different posters say the phrase (in many different ways): I don’t think Farmer/ Pet know how to evaluate the QB position or I don’t trust their QB’s evaluations or their QB evaluations are still questionable till they find the right one. The point isn’t the exact words, so please don’t take that as I’m calling a certain poster out or anything like that. Every day I sit here and read what all of you have to say about our Browns. I enjoy reading the information and thoughts from either side of the debates. So I am very interested in hearing your thoughts on the subject.


What the point of this thread is about GM QB evaluations. For some of the top QB’s, heck anyone one would’ve picked them 1st in their drafts i.e. Andrew Luck, Peyton, Sam Bradford, Cam.

So in present day; Who do you consider top QB evaluators? What would different things they would look for in a QB? And any other general information about the evaluation of the position.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but Ron Wolf back in the day use to be one of the best at evaluating the position.

I know there are so many variables that goes with the drafting of a QB and that person being a franchise QB. I understand it’s not just the GM that does all the evaluating, you also have pro personnel, scouts, etc. Also on the flip side, after they are drafted it’s up to the coaches to do their thing for the QB to develop, the offensive system and also making sure the QB doesn’t get killed every play (i.e David Carr) by having a stable line in place.


So what is your thoughts?

If I recall, Matt Ryan was the third pick of the first round.

Get your QB in the first round.

That's basically it. The odds of a 1st round QB making it are that much higher than QBs from other rounds.......

You can mention Tom Brady, but how many guys picked 2-UDFA never amounted to anything in the NFL? The percentage of QBs drafted in the 1st round that make it is far far far higher than guys picked 2-7

Yes, you are correct. My apologies, he was one of the few, i went by memory instead of googling for the exact draft position. That's what I get lol. I actually started this post by spending over an hour, breaking down all the GM's of the 32 teams and their QB drafts/transactions since they've been with their teams. Over halfway through, the post was getting too lengthy and figured the point of the thread was going to be lost.

I've probably written it 50 times on here, but how much would our perspectives be different if we would have left the first round of the 2014 draft with:

Buffalo's 2015 1st Round Pick
Odell Beckham Jr
Teddy Bridgewater
Our own 2014 3rd Round Pick (used to move up for Manziel)

I know I have said that I don't trust how they evaluate qbs many times.

I am not quite sure what you are asking us to answer. It's almost like you are trying to prove a point, rather than asking a question or two.

If your question is: "Who do I consider the top QB evaluators?" then I can't answer it. Too many variables. Too many situations where guys were obvious choices.

What you have to look at are the guys who were passed over by teams that needed--and still need--QBs. I remember the year when Big Ben, Manning, and Rivers came out. Big Ben lasted until 10th or 11th overall pick. QB needy teams passed on him. We were one of them. He turned out to be the best of the 3, but all three have had success. Another situation..........think about how many had RGIII right there w/Andrew Luck. Think about how much Washington gave up for him. That is a complete blunder.

I say what I say about Farmer and company because of a combination of factors:

--comments he made about the importance of the position.
--comments he made about certain qbs prior to his first draft.
--choosing Manziel over Bridgewater.
--never truly trying to sign Hoyer.
--overpaying for McCown.
--supposedly wanting Bradford, but not Foles.

Btw---------is this Sports Illustrated list? The more I look at it, the more mistakes I see.

Matt Ryan over Russell Wilson. Cutler rated so high. Carr over Bridgewater. McCown over anyone. Bradford rated as high as he is. Palmer is up too high. Brady over Rodgers. P. Manning has slipped. He isn't better than Ben or Rivers. Dalton and Cap are too high. I don't like RGIII, but 31st?

I understand these ratings are subjective, but the ratings are not real proof of anything, especially in regards to evaluating GMs. Some of the current GMs didn't even bring in their current QB. My comments about Farmer are the sum of several factors, rather than just where his current QB is rated in a subjective article.

So can I assume you agree with me that Farmer knows the importance of the QB position? Comments made about QB's before the draft should be thrown in the garbage. None of these guys tell the truth before the draft, as a matter of fact they get a good laugh out of throwing bogus info out to reporters knowing that the reporters will run the bogas crap as the truth Now as far as going with JM over Bridgewater right now that looks like a huge swing and a miss right now. I agree with you on this one, but the jury is still out on this right now. As for not trying to resign Hoyer well Farmer looked stupid for not doing so the first half of the season, and smart for not doing so in the second half of the season.

You think we overpaid for Josh? Who in the hell cares bro. You and I don't pay his salary. We are under the cap, his contract is not going to effect our cap so who cares, and finally the Bradford but not Foles comment. Rumors bro rumors.

JMHO, as Vers Dog stated, lots of these are obvious...so if you stunk, had first pick AND hit home run (Luck-what a name,yes)...everyone would do it, AND his point about RGIII..paid way to much...then there is BRADY, best/luckiest/holy macheral,etc.,etc....a team is set if they get a good one who can last...our Couch...never liked him because of coaching he got at Kentucky/NONE...hope our current QB plays up to his highest potential, we could be somebody....GO Browns!!!

SI Qb

Sorry, for the late response was working all day. I agree with a lot of mistakes from the list. Like I said, I just grabbed the first list I saw. I don't agree with much of the rankings either. I basically was just using the list as a visual of the Qb's and where they were drafted.


Vers, I like your response. Especially about the Big Ben and Washington situations. Because that is what I also look at too for past evaluations of the draft or transactions.

The question, Who do you consider the top QB evaluators? Well I was seeing if there was anyone well respected in that specific area that are in the back of the minds of the posters here. We talk about the GM/QB spot so much I was seeing what people's views were of the evaluation throughout the NFL teams. I know we focus so much on the Browns, rightfully so since that is our team.

Like most of you have said it's a crapshoot, too many variables I agree with that also. Heck look at Ozzie, awesome GM, he was officially named GM in 2002 and it took him 6 years to finally get his franchise QB and thats after he tried with Boller.

EO, I agree the guy picking overall #1 are the best evaluators, haha. Also Brees went first pick in the 2nd round, I double checked to make sure I had that at least right, lol.

well what is disheartening is there are 5 or so in the top 20 were not first round picks. and farmer would not take that one in 5 chance to try to better the QB room this year.

bring in a 36 year old QB who is not our future. shaw alot like but no one thinks will be a real nfl starting Qb, and the small slow recovering drug addict is our best chance? really. couldnt bring in a backup plan? couldnt start to devolope one of those spread QBs to get a head start in case johnny dont turn out?

oh thats right.... our gm thinks the QB is like any other plaayer on the roster.....

Look, the real travesty is passing on Big Ben and Rodgers.

Maybe not going after Brees when he became available.

The outcome would have been different.

The Browns have tossed 3 number 22's at QB's as well.

Bridgewater and Carr look to be moving up that chart.

I really don't know the answer to that question. Sorry.

I posted this on another thread, but it fits here.



and




Farmer makes comments about QBs that sometimes blow me away. There are more examples, but these two give you an idea of his mindset before he entered his first draft.

I'm not sure you are wrong but what is Ron Wolf's history of drafting and developing QBs? Other than Favre.... See that's the thing about QB evaluation, you only have to be right ONE TIME.. and you get this reputation for being a guru.

Seriously, who has a track record of taking multiple guys (who are not no-brainers) plucking them off other teams or out of the draft and making top notch QBs out of them?

Ron Wolf had a tremendous run and was, by all accounts, a top player personnel guy/executive across the board... including hiring coaches and players at all positions and just creating a culture of winning... I think his record goes well beyond just that of picking the right QB..


From what I have heard from a variety of evaluators is that you like to have as many of the measurables as you can obviously... beyond that the two biggest things are quick decision making and accuracy.

J/C

I'd assume most people would claim Gruden to be a QB guru (but he loves all of them) for his work with Favre/Gannon/Johnson in the Super Bowl year

I'll never forget the rage I experienced when I saw us on the clock and Brandon Weeden talking on the telephone. I literally broke things in my living room. That moment continues to be the worst decision I've seen the Browns make ... and I was appalled that they did it.

Drafting Manziel wasn't too far behind.

I always had the feeling that because they were the second of two 1st Rd picks, that they approached those selections as a "bonus" pick that they could gamble on.

JM I think was at least partially a marketing pick.

Weeden I think they liked his arm strength, but I always scratched my head about that pick because his weakness coming out of college was that he quickly collapsed under pressure... so a team that plays in the AFC North... against 2 or 3 top 10 defenses... 6 times a year... picks a guy who folds under pressure? When ISN'T there pressure on our QB in divisional games???

"that they approached those selections as a "bonus" pick that they could gamble on."
=====================================================

If any GM ever approached a first round pick as a pick that they could gamble on; they should be fired on the spot.

Every pick in the draft is an asset that should be leveraged to gain the best possible selections to benefit the team.

I agree. That second first round pick still represents something, a previous pick given up, a player given up, something of value was given to acquire that first round pick.. it's not like somebody just gave it to us for free...

And I'm sure he has plenty of help with evaluating those and all other positions, in the end the decision is his... regardless of what his qualified support tells him.

And he was 65 years old.

Weeden wasn't Colt McCoy. That was a great reason for drafting him. It didn;t work, but I can see why they did it .. because McCoy was flat out lousy the year before Weeden was picked.

Tell me if I'm taking you out of context. In the last 10 super bowls, name a QB drafted in the top ten, other than the Manning brothers, who started? Not saying Farmer is right just your first listed quote is interesting.

That is a dumb question, bugs.

Are you saying we shouldn't draft a top ten qb? WTH?

Come On! No! Simply look at the QBs who played in the last 10 super bowls. Makes for a strong point you don't have to mortgage the farm to move up to get the best QB in any given draft.

IMO, I do think QBs are given way to much credit. They come into the league with to much perceived talent. Simply look at the two QBs Mariota and Winston drafted this year. As a GM talk about absolute nightmare decision with your career hanging on the decision. Look at Houston last year taking Clowney vs. any QB.

Sorry, I despise that Super Bowl "only" argument. We haven't sniffed a Super Bowl since our return. We have had pathetic QB play for every year but one since our return. Don't talk to me about Super Bowls when we can't even achieve a .500 record.

Sheesh!

Holy Smokes did you take my post to the outer solar system!

Vers, I really think teams need to create systems and schemes and find QBs who can run it. All this top five and first rounders and what not is good, but in the end, you have to know what you need plain and simple.

Bugs.........I hate arguing w/you because I think you are a good guy. One of my favorite posters, but man, you can't ignore that most top 10 draft picks are drafted by teams that suck.

How the hell can you disrespect the Colts for drafting Luck? They haven't won a Super Bowl, but is that a bad pick?

Come on, man!

Sometimes I think you get so wrapped up in other debates you lose sight. I was only pointing out in the last 10 super bowls only the Mannings were a top 5. I by no means thought the others were unworthy. Don't you find that rather unique? Granted both Mannings played in 2 super bowls each.

We're cool, bugs. I'll leave it at that.

the dude