DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Improving defense could make Browns playoff team in 2015 - CBS.Sportsline.com Article

We already know most of this article, but it's an offseason piece from a national writer saying we could be good enough for the playoffs. Worth a read in July.

Improving defense could make Browns playoff team in 2015
By Ryan Wilson | CBSSports.com
July 21, 2015 10:35 pm CT

It's easy to forget that the Browns were alone in first place in the AFC North on Nov. 11, 10 weeks into the 2014 NFL season. At the time, they were 6-3 with wins over the Saints, Steelers and Bengals and there was no reason to think that the team would implode over the final seven games other than, you know, they're the Browns.

Of course, that's exactly what happened; Cleveland lost six of seven, including five straight to end the season. When it was over, the sheen had worn off the local-boy-makes-good Brian Hoyer story, and the quarterback wasn't re-signed. Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan also left amid reports of friction on the coaching staff. And after a forgettable rookie season, first-round pick Johnny Manziel entered rehab, where he remained for 10 weeks. There was also the matter of a meddling front office, along with continued reports of a power struggle between the coach and general manager.

But despite the annual off-field silliness, the Browns can't be dismissed as a legitimate playoff team next season. This doesn't mean they're the favorites to win the AFC North. In fact, if you're ranking the division, it begins with some combination of the Bengals, Ravens and Steelers in spots 1-3 followed by the Browns. But that's less about the talent gap among the four teams than a) recent history and b) the lack of a proven franchise quarterback on Cleveland's roster.

So while a team without something approaching a franchise quarterback hasn't won a Super Bowl since Brad Johnson and the Buccaneers pulled it off in January 2003, there are plenty of examples of teams lacking a top-10 passer playing in the postseason. And let's be honest: a Browns' playoff appearance -- the first since 2002, by the way -- would be a huge deal in northern Ohio.

So what's the plan? The Browns could take a page from the playbooks of their division rivals -- all of them. In 2004, then-rookie Ben Roethlisberger was forced into the lineup after Tommy Maddox went down with an arm injury in Week 2. That team relied heavily on two things: Pittsburgh's dominant defense and a running game that simplified Big Ben's life. The Steelers went 15-1 and made it to the conference championship. The Ravens did similarly in 2008, Joe Flacco's rookie season, when its second-ranked defense did much of the heavy lifting on the team's way to the playoffs. And you could argue that Andy Dalton has benefitted from some combination of good defenses and explosive playmakers in the Bengals' four consecutive postseason appearances.

In 2014, the Browns had one of the league's youngest defenses (average age: 26.4) but still finished as the No. 11 unit, according to Football Outsiders' metrics. If that group can improve in 2015, coupled with Josh McCown playing at replacement level (basically: something other than the NFL's worst quarterback), the Browns can not only be competitive, they can be in the mix for a playoff spot in late December.

Along the defensive line, Ahtyba Rubin and Jabaal Sheard are gone, as is cornerback Buster Skrine. But 2014 first-round pick Danny Shelton should immediately upgrade the nose tackle position while free-agent signing Tramon Williams can do the same as Skrine's replacement. The Browns used a second-round pick on outside linebacker Nate Orchard, who had 18.5 sacks at Utah last season and will replace Sheard on the depth chart in Cleveland.

Then there are the Browns' other recent selections -- first-round talents who have yet to fully realize expectations. Cornerback Justin Gilbert was taken eighth overall in 2014, but struggled through much of his rookie season. That'll change in 2015, if veteran Pro Bowler Joe Haden, who has been working out with Gilbert, has anything to do with it.

“He is growing up,” Haden said in March. “Justin's a very, very talented player. It's just going to take a little bit of time.”

Gilbert's talent isn't lost on second-year coach Mike Pettine, who also realizes that the transition from college to the NFL is rarely a smooth one.

“We've definitely seen flashes of his ability, and we've seen it in games as well,” Pettine said back in December. “I could make a 20-play cut-up of him where he'd look like one of the elite corners in the league, and I could make another 20-play cut-up where you wouldn't take him until Day 3 of the draft. In this league, it's all about being consistent.”

The point: There's every reason to expect Gilbert to improve from Year 1 to Year 2. The same holds for 2013 first-rounder Barkevious Mingo, the undersized rush linebacker who has been less than 100 percent healthy for much of his NFL career.

“I feel next year will be a good year,” Mingo said in March. “I have the experience under my belt. I know what to expect, and it's the same playbook as last year, so I'll have that as an advantage as well. Now it's just coming down to getting ready to play and putting it on the field.”

But the success of this defense in 2015 doesn't rest solely on the shoulders of these young players. The unit is full of veteran contributors from linebackers Karlos Dansby, Craig Robertson and Paul Kruger, to defensive backs Haden, Williams, Donte Whitner and Tashaun Gipson. Just how good is this group? According to ProFootballFocus' individual ratings, Dansby was ninth among all inside linebackers, Robertson was 18th, and Kruger was 14th among rush linebackers. Among cornerbacks, Haden was 28th and Williams was 34th (with the Packers), while Gipson and Whitner were 10th and 11th, respectively, among safeties.

On the other side of the ball, the Browns have a ton of questions, a conversation that starts at quarterback. McCown was signed this offseason to take the pressure off Manziel, who isn't expected to win the starting job. But there are bright spots, starting with the offensive line (the team used its other first-round pick on center Cameron Erving, who will be groomed as Alex Mack's replacement); a solid running game that features Isaiah Crowell, Terrance West and Duke Johnson, all of whom are 23 or younger; and veteran free-agent wideouts Dwayne Bowe and Brian Hartline.

So while today's NFL is all about offensive firepower, and only teams with a franchise quarterback have a real chance to win the Super Bowl, the road to the playoffs is less restrictive. In 2009 and 2010, the Jets made back-to-back AFC Championship Game appearances with an erratic Mark Sanchez, a very good running game and a great defenses. We've seen that story -- adequate quarterback coupled with strong running game and defense -- play out in subsequent years with the 2011 49ers (Alex Smith's resurgence under Jim Harbaugh), the 2012 Bengals (Dalton was in his second season and Cincy's D ranked 10th), and the 2013 Chiefs (Alex Smith's resurgence continued in Kansas City, which went from two wins the previous season to the playoffs in '13).

And last season's Bills, a team that leaned heavily on journeyman quarterback Kyle Orton while it waited on EJ Manuel to grow into the job, might be the best example what the Browns could look like in '15. That Bills team finished 9-7 and just outside the playoff chase, and they did it with a below-average offense (26th overall) and a stifling defense (2nd overall).

Of course, the Browns play in a much tougher division than the Bills, and, in general, the organization is perpetually finding ways to sabotage itself. That said, if the owner, front office and coaching staff can find a way to mitigate the self-inflicted wounds (which, honestly might be a tougher propisition than Manziel making the Pro Bowl), it's easy to envision a group that starts the season strong but unlike a year ago, doesn't cave down the stretch. And if they can get to Week 15 at 8-6 or 7-7, then anything's possible -- including the playoffs.

Put another way: Qualifying for the postseason ain't the Mt. Everest of professional sports milestones; Andy Dalton has done it four straight years.

Just another fluff article, but it's still nice seeing a site like CBS recognize that this team has some talent.

Yup. We can compete with average QB play and above average defense... or if we get the QB play many are expecting, we are going to have the '85 Bears defense to even sniff the playoffs.. and that's a lot of improving.

I could have sworn I read that article somewhere else on this board.

Link

Dang, sorry.

It is locked anyway you couldn't talk about it there.

Can Orchard replace or be better than Sheard?
Can Shelton be as dominant as most think he can?
Can Gipson continue to prove he's a Pro-Bowl FS?
Can Whitner and Dansby keep their level of play?
Can Gilbert progress at all?
Can Desmond Bryant finally earn his big paycheck?
Can Armonty Bryant transition successfully to his "new" role?
Can the combination of Kirksey and Robertson improve at the other LB spot?

Find out... on the next episode of SOAP!



The hardest part of predicting anything for this team, ever, is that there are so many variables every year. This will be only what... the third or fourth time that we've had the same defensive system in consecutive years since our return? And have we ever had consecutive seasons where neither system changed?

Hopefully, it will be fun to watch.

Totally agree. Not to mention that a balanced offensive line and a decent running attack can make an average QB look pretty damn good. An elite defense does very little as far as putting points on the board, which is a must to win games and to get a sniff at the playoffs.

Hopefully this "improved" Defense can stop the run this year

j/c

Playoffs? Browns could double their effectiveness finishing with 9 wins and still be in last place in the AFCN.

I'm hoping Browns don't take a step back. If they match, being a tougher schedule, or better, I'd consider it success.

Offense needs an identity and corp group of play makers to build upon. It is one reason I like seeing Manziel take the reins. Pryor is another I want to see blossom. Gordon returns next year. Gabriel improves. A group of misfits who elevate the Browns out of the sh_ts. You can't write a better script. Trust me I believe this to be a fairytale. Cleveland itself is always considered the stepchild. What better way to thumb your nose then a bunch of castoffs who develop into a powerful group.

Defense will be in the top 10 range next season. The offense is another story.

I think the Browns--as they typically do--have way too many "ifs" to be considered a playoff contender.

--If McCown can have a year like he has never had before...

--If Bowe can play like he did years ago...

--If Housler can stay healthy and be a deep threat...

--If Gilbert can improve...

--If anyone can replace Skrine...

--If Mingo improves...

--If we can stop the run...

--If the WRs play well.....

--If our RBs improve their yds. per carry....

--If a first time OC and never was QB coach can be adequate...

--If we can generate some heat on the QB, unlike the last several games of last year when we gave opposing qbs all day to throw...

--If the team can actually learn to win and close out games...

If is a very big small word.

the Cleveland Ifs

It sucks because those "ifs" would matter very little if we had a QB. Unfortunately, they are big deals for Cleveland.

Very true, but with where we're at, our goal is to have our Offense start with our Defense.

IF we can stifle the opponent, we can be in the games.
IF we can then get the run game going, we will be able to compete.
IF we get to this point, this should balance things enough for our journeyman QB to not have to carry the load and allow him to play relatively relaxed. ANY QB that can play relaxed in this league is dangerous.

Exactly. A QB can quell MANY of the "ifs" ... it can hide a lot of flaws in a football team

Hilarious...

You're absolutely right. A franchise QB, a quality QB, would make a lot of those if's a moot point. The Browns are in a situation where most of the team must play up to their potential in order for the Browns to win. It's not like the 08-2012 Browns where they had to be absolutely perfect, but they still need a lot of production out of a lot of players.

Wilson does have a point, though. Those Jets teams that went to the AFC Championship game with freaking Mark Sanchez as their QB was nothing short of incredible. Obviously, without a QB, we have a ceiling that isn't a Super Bowl. But running game and defense can take you a long way if both operate at a very high level. I have faith our defense can play up to a playoff level, no doubt in my mind. But our running game must be seen to be believed. We have the horses, but it's all about gelling, system success, and execution from a lot of young players. We shall see.

McCown doesn't have to be great to make this team good. McCown would just have to have a very average NFL QB year, and we'd be an extremely difficult team to compete with. It's unfortunate that I don't have faith that McCown can do that for us, but who knows, he's gone on hot streaks before. If nothing else, this isn't like those years where I'd be really happy with 6 wins. This team has a lot of quality NFL talent on it's roster. Just not at the most vital position in the game today.

The answer will be no to some of those, and even all the yes answers will not arrive all at once.

But the process and results are sure to be fascinating. Quite a shopping list, Purp.

Next Soap episode indeed! Still laughing (and this is just the defensive side!). LOLetc.

+1, your ifs are all true...BUT every team has lots of ifs...NE wouldn't have beat Ravens IF they didn't have trick "legal" plays....the 49ers this year have longer list of what ifs than we do....how many starters bailed on them, new head coach,etc,etc....these press guys will write ANYTHING to fill space...how a team whose been in the cellar for as long as we have, with 3 playoff teams in division above them are playoff team....unreal...hope is a good thing, sure hope we have more divisional wins than losses, that would be a start....GO Browns!!!!

j/c

Purp and Vers hit on the "ifs" very well in this thread. We have a ton of ifs...every team has ifs and we simply have a few more...well...maybe a lot more.

There are reasons to be optimistic about the ifs...but they are still there. We appear to have a plan for the type of players we want...it appears that coaches and players and the GM are on the same page. We will run the same basic schemes for a whopping second straight year...which has proven to be a big deal in Berea.

Now all they have to do is go out and actually DO it. You know...the hard part.

Other teams with their own share of ifs have shown what they can do if their ifs play out right for them. We've not gotten to that point yet. Hopefully this year is the start to where we get to show what we can do if our ifs play out right.

Fluff? Probably, but it was a nice read. And sometimes we need some fluff to keep our hopes alive!

Fluff...no. Substance...yes. We'll get that once the lights are turned on.

Do I think we could win the division? Yes.

Do I think we will? Probably not..

Do I think we could make the playoffs? Yes.

Do I think we will? Eh..

Do I think we are some talentless team thats just waiting to stumble to a 2 or 3 win season? No.

Do I think we can win more than 10 games? Probably not..

We will need breaks, and things to go our way more than they don't. Is it possible? Yes, Likely? Who knows..

All I know is I'm not ganna sit here and complain about things that can no longer be changed, and enjoy what I expect to be one of the better seasons we've had in a while..

Ya know, even though it wasn't mentioned in the article, I think having a Pro-Bowl caliper punter will help the defense too.

Yeah, that's right. Browns fan's expect the punter to be a big part of the game plan

I really don't think it was a fluff piece. It was written by a national site.

The fluff articles are the ones that are written by local reporters who are paid by the Browns.

Seems more like a "fair" article to me, and not overly "fluffish" at that. Might be right where we are, and there may be real optimism in some areas. But this didn't seem like a shallow homer piece.

Proof is in the pudding. I am ordering another case of lipstick for our pig, just in case all of the Netive Nancy and Ned types are correct and it is as hopeless as it is dismal. We just might shock some folks.

A pig in the hand is worth, well, what exactly? Stay tuned.

Show me a relaxed QB in the NFL and I'll show you a NFL team with a great OC that has a well balanced Oline and a good running attack. Yes, those teams are dangerous.

I agree Eo. Shanny was released. I also agree it is foolish to say Pettine won't survive a losing season. He might not, but there are lots of factors involved.

Joe Thomas: Browns can make playoffs with franchise quarterback

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...FTAG=YHF7e3228e

By Jared Dubin | Staff Writer
August 2, 2015 11:35 am ET

You usually don't hear much optimism associated with the Cleveland Browns, a perpetually moribund franchise. Just don't tell that to star left tackle Joe Thomas, who has supreme confidence in his team.

"The optimism that I have right now, I feel I'm on a team that can make the playoffs with a franchise quarterback," Thomas said Saturday, according to ESPN Cleveland. "I certainly don't want to be traded. If I ever got to that situation, I guess I would have to live with it and make the most of it. But, I want to be in Cleveland when we make the playoffs."

Is that franchise quarterback on this current roster? Almost definitely not. It certainly isn't Josh McCown, who has proven throughout his career -- with the exception of a five-game stretch in Chicago -- that he's a consistently below-average passer. It's probably not Johnny Manziel, who struggled badly as a rookie and has his share of off-field issues to square away before he worries about film study, reading defenses and everything else that goes into playing quarterback in the NFL.

And it's probably not Connor Shaw, simply because undrafted quarterbacks almost always do not become franchise QBs. In the last 20 years, there have only been six undrafted quarterbacks that tossed even 50 total touchdown passes during their career, and only two (Kurt Warner and Tony Romo) could possibly be described as "franchise" passers.

So while Thomas might be right that the team he's currently on could make the playoffs with a franchise QB, it's unlikely we're going to find out any time soon.



(end)

Joe Thomas: I want to be in Cleveland when we make the playoffs

Joe won’t go: The plan for Joe Thomas’ ninth Browns training camp is to work three days, then get two days off, the latter a full team off day.

It’s a concession to age (he turned 30 in December) and a perk of meritorious service (7,917 consecutive snaps played in eight Pro Bowl seasons).

I asked him if he found it odd that the Browns had selected heralded college left tackles high in the past two NFL drafts – Joel Bitonio in 2014 and Cameron Erving in 2015.

“No,” he said, laughing. “I know my time is limited.

“I’m not naïve to the fact I turned 30 last year and this is my ninth year and I’m probably a lot closer to the end than the beginning. They always have to be ready for the end of my career because nobody knows when it will be. But certainly you can’t just say ‘Joe Thomas will be there forever.’”

In 2011, Thomas signed a seven-year contract extension with the Browns for $80.5 million that made him the highest-paid offensive lineman in the NFL. The contract peaked in the first two years, and now the salary cap figures level off to about $10 million annually over the final three years, which is fairly team-friendly for a future Hall of Fame player in his prime.

“They won’t be cutting me for cap reasons,” Thomas said, again with a laugh. “Maybe skill reasons, but not cap reasons.”

A Hall of Fame-bound left tackle with a reasonable contract might make Thomas a valuable chip in trade, if the Browns so desired. I asked Thomas how he would feel if somewhere down the line the Browns traded him to improve the teamat another position .

“The optimism that I have right now, I feel I’m on a team that can make the playoffs with a franchise quarterback,” he replied. “I certainly don’t want to be traded. If I ever got to that situation, I guess I would have to live with it and make the most of it. But, I want to be in Cleveland when we make the playoffs.”

In for the long haul: There’s no need to detail the Browns’ grim record in Thomas’ eight seasons. After a 10-6 year in his rookie 2007 season, Thomas has slogged through seven consecutive losing years.

Playing devil’s advocate, I pointed out to Thomas that many Browns players have escaped Cleveland through free agency or outright release and latched on to playoff teams. Several, in fact, have reached the Super Bowl. Does that prospect appeal to him?

“Let me put it this way,” Thomas said. “It’s more important for me to take this Cleveland Browns team to the playoffs, for only the second time since they’ve come back, turn this team back into a contender year in and year out, than it is to go somewhere and latch on with an all-star team and go to the playoffs or win the Super Bowl. Because I don’t think it means as much.

“It would be like being a secretary (with a team) and getting a Super Bowl ring. Not that you didn’t have a part in it, but here I would be such an integral part of the turnaround. It’s just that important to me. It’s not as important to say ‘I played in the playoffs once for Denver, and they were a great team before I got there and I just kind of rode the wave.’”

The real Mr. Positive: Thomas is always positive. How else to cope with all that losing? But he seems more so this summer, even after seeing another change in quarterbacks and another change in offensive systems and coordinators.

What gives?

“I’ve been so impressed with Flip (coordinator John DeFilippo) and Josh (McCown)," he said. "The way Josh handles himself, the way he throws the ball, the way he gets the offense. He plays the quarterback position the way it’s supposed to be played. It’s so enjoyable being out there with him.”

Veteran players -- especially veteran offensive linemen -- naturally take comfort in having a veteran quarterback at the controls. It’s no secret that Thomas was a fan and friend of Brian Hoyer. But he has quickly become a fan of McCown.

“No matter what you do or say as a lineman, you can only have so much command and leadership in an offensive huddle, because the quarterback position is just the position of leadership and management on the offensive side of the ball," he said. "So having a veteran voice like that is so awesome, because I’m sitting in there and blocking a certain protection and our world is small. It’s the seven or eight guys on defense that are in the box. And if a receiver’s dogging it in practice on a route or in a game, I have no idea.

"But to have a veteran quarterback that sees everything, it’s like having another coach on the field. You have to have that. You can’t have success without having a quarterback like that. You just can’t. And every team in the playoffs, they have that.

“(Hoyer) was like that a lot. It was great having him. We lost Hoyer, but we gained a guy with even more experience, more games, starts, wins under his belt than Hoyer, and years. It’s really awesome.

Thomas is the bedrock of an offensive line counted on as the strength of the Browns’ offense. But Thomas knows that the fate of the Browns, as with all teams, comes down to the quarterback.

“The offensive line can only go so far for any team,” he said. “You have to have the quarterback. I think we can help Josh and be good in the run game, but you’re never going to have a good run game if you don’t have the ability to throw the ball.

“You can throw the ball if you don’t have a good run game, but never vice versa. So we can have that good impact that we need to. I just hope we can give Josh the help he needs protecting him and with a good run game to let him give us that ability to win the game when we need it. Because down the stretch, games always come down to the two-minute drive, offensively or defensively, and most NFL games are close.”

It so happened that McCown had a really good day at practice on Friday. And it was no coincidence that Thomas was smiling as broadly as ever, excited as ever about what's in store in his ninth season with the Browns. There's no place he'd rather be.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=47741

A lot of us seem to agree with Joe about needing a franchise QB before we are really a playoff team. I wonder if the fans will call Joe the same names they call the fans who agree with him?

What names would those be...like "TEXT" Johny Rehab" "FLIPPER"? Those names?

JMHO, I'll get on D bandwagen when we have a lead in 4th AND they protect it successfully several times...Thomas's quote COULD mean just a decent, reliable QB...he hasn't seen one of those for a season yet...throw the first stone if you are without sin...JM went to rehab on his own, he's bigger and smarter man than all the alcoholics and drug users (Gordon) who are to chicken to do anything about it....GO Browns!!!