DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Planned Parenthood and the Sale of Fetal Body Parts

Or, in terms that are perhaps more understandable: Let's say Donald Trump wins the GOP nomination and names Jesus Christ, who has recently returned to Earth as prophesied, as his running mate. They win. The GOP also wins control of the House and Senate, Ginsberg and O'Connor keel over, and thus the monopoly of power is complete within the branches. President Trump signs a bill outlawing abortion, and Vice President Christ vows to use his superpowers to preemptively arrest anyone attempting to get a now illegal abortion. It has been eradicated successfully. Now, 40, how do you go about caring for and raising that special needs child who smiled at the sun you were just talking about? There are now millions of them, and they don't have parents. And their medical bills are very steep. And many need constant care. Where is this being paid for?

I think 40 just had to change his shorts.

Firstly, with the principals leading the GOP today, Jesus would never run for office in their party. They stand for so many things that in no way represent Christianity. I believe that could be said about both parties.

When Jesus returns to this earth, he won't be a politician.

And I don't entirely disagree with some of what you said, however, I do disagree with your opinions on abstinence. I have never said that it should be the only thing taught, but it definitely should be one of the things taught.

I would also say that your example, with 5 sisters being married before they turned 18 is the exception, not the rule.

There is no downside to teaching kids about abstinence as one part of sexual education. None.

These are the consequences of sex as a youngster, and why you should abstain until you are married. Things like poverty, children, venereal diseases, loss of social standing, and so on can be compelling reasons for abstinence.

Then things like Birth control, recognizing STD symptoms, and so on can be taught for "in case" a child feels that they are ready for the responsibilities sex can bring on in a moment.

Right now all kids see is this message that sex is something that is an entertainment activity ..... that "everyone does it, so you should to", don't worry about the consequences", and so on.

The message should be that sedx is something special, and wonderful, and should be reserved for marriage. However, since we know that many kids will not do this, then we add in the birth control side of things.

I just don't get why so many people get freaked out over adding abstinence as a section of "sex education". It does nothing to harm anyone, and maybe it saves a few girls from being pressured into sex by so called boyfriends, who are just out to "hit it and quit it". Maybe it helps a few kids realize that sex is something special, and not a game. Maybe it helps the thousands of girls with esteem and body issues to realize that the are special, and that they don't have to just give in to sex just so they can feel better about themselves, only to have it completely rebound the other way instead. Teaching abstinence as part of a sexual education program does nothing bad to anyone.

I will add that I also grew up in poverty, after my father divorced my mom and took off for "greener pastures". (and child services, at the time, refused to even worry about a deadbeat dad once they crossed state lines) So, I do understand poverty. Fortunately we had family to help, but I still lived through years of second hand clothes from the thrift store, using a "lunch card" before it was "acceptable", and so on. I understand the challenges of poverty very well.

As far as your final line ...yes, we do promote life.

I wonder .... what if abortion had been around in 1BC ..... and a young woman suddenly found herself pregnant, even though she hadn't had sex .......

I hate to even consider those consequences.

I don't mind abstinence being taught either. Along with every other known method... including rhythm, pulling out, etc. etc. I would like to have every child understand all the facts, fiction, lies and half truths.

Most kids are too immature to handle the consequences of sexual relationship. A lot of adults as well. We disagree on the reserved for marriage. I am in the committed relationship world.

Don't be too sure about my example, at one time it was the norm for women to be married before 20.

The uncomfortable truth is that the further you go down into the world of poverty, the more bad things happen. I have more suicides in my family than would be considered normal as well. I guess I am the exception and not the rule.

I broke a few rules, getting out and I live a better life.

It is the boys as well as the girls. There is the thrill of the hunt, the conquest, the fact their are those like Bill Cosby in the world.

I understand your comment about 1BC. I ask that you also look back to before 1973 as well. Magic elixirs, coat hangers and back alleys... It is all true, I knew a girl that wound up in the hospital after loosing a battle with that coat hanger.

You have to be taught how to be responsible before you can be responsible. Why do you think teen pregnancy rates are higher in states with abstinence only sex education programs?



Abortions increased for one organization, yet there are tons of organizations that provide abortions and the overall rate is decreasing and has been for some time. Your point is irrelevant without further clarification of what you are trying to say. It's funny that "conservatives" rally against PP but you never hear about conservatives wanting to pull federal funding from them. All we ever hear about is PP. where are the gotcha videos and outrage for other organizations that do the same services? Like I said, when you live in a concrete world, you need a boogeyman on which to lay the blame.

You are in the conservative camp on this issue, without a doubt. No one is arguing that abortions are great or fun. I even indicated that I am against abortions and quoted a former president of PP saying that abortions are societal and medical failures. I also reemphasized my point that if conservatives are so staunchly opposed to abortion, they would examine the facts and realize that organizations like and including PP do more to prevent unwanted pregnancies without resorting to the need for an abortion. Unfortunately, abortions still occur, but it's clear that progress is being made to decrease that number. Again, that is in part to PP and similar organizations.

Conservatives, i.e., those against abortion in this case, should be willing to support organizations like and including PP to continue to decrease the need for abortions. Unsurprisingly, this falls on deaf ears with the conservative crowd here and they apparently don't want to debate that point. I'm still waiting for the "moral" conservatives to come out against the filmmakers for their lies of misrepresenting themselves, but apparently sin is only sin if it is convenient to label it so.

When Jesus comes back millions of people will be crapping in their shorts.

I believe you missed my point. Planned Parenthood cannot be the reason unwanted pregnancies are down. Planned Parenthood is not able to impregnate or be impregnated. If you mean by using abortion and free contraceptives as a cause of less unwanted pregnancies, then you could give out free condoms at the local 7-11 and be as productive. Planned Parenthood is not some moral agency trying to rid the world of the blight of unwanted pregnancy. (insert sarcasm)



Again I think you missed my point. It is not about what you want and do not want as a society. It is about what should government be doing and not doing. I do not believe the government should be in the business of human procreation. I for one oppose any government involvement in my interpersonal relationships. I do not want them in my bedroom either telling me what I can and cannot do with a consenting adult. Nor do I want them in my family planning. Your assertion about AIDS and higher teen birth rates tells me that you believe the government should be involved in the sexual practices of its citizenry. I am not ignorant of the fact that people will participate is highly risky sexual activity. I accept that as part of being a human being. What I do not accept is the government intervention in the name of some moral crusade against AIDS or unwanted pregnancies. Give me a break, the government can care less if people die of AIDS or teenagers get pregnant.

The government cannot give its people quality healthcare, not through government run hospitals and medical centers nor through government subsidized clinics. Ask any person on medicaid or medicare how their healthcare is. Moreover, ask someone who has had private healthcare and then is forced into medicare or medicaid. Government run or subsidized healthcare is not about the patient, it is about the end result the government wants. It is an illusion to those who have no idea what healthcare truly is. For example, does the person on SSDI and medicare really have a choice in care they receive? No they do not.

Well that's a new one LOL Reply to me with a quote from Tulsa



Let me break this down for you Vince Lombardi style "Everybody stop and gather around," Then I knell down, picked up the pigskin, and say, "Let's start at the beginning. This is a football.

Do you get it now my point is as simple as it gets PP preformed more abortions last year than the year before while other Groups preformed less. Hello is anybody home, do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth. *Lifting Max's eyelids* is there anybody in there?



Once again I need to quote Pink Floyd "Hello,
Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone at home?"

I made a simple statement , and gave you proof, that PP preformed more abortions last year than the year before while abortions were down in this country. Was that statement true or false? It's simple did they or didn't they? It's easy to answer but instead of answering it your running around babbling about the boogie man and conservatives.

I would have no problem with PP or any other group trying to help prevent unwanted pregnancy's. I only have a problem with them killing babies.

Well said!

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24:30-31)

This is when new shorts will be needed by us all.

Again, where is this mythical public or private school sex education program that doesn't mention abstinence as an avenue?

There have been many cases of people trying to remove abstinence from school programs.

I want well rounded programs that emphasize that abstinence is the only surefire way to prevent pregnancy and that will prevent STDs better than any other method. Then other things, like birth control can be taught .... but I think that the foundation should be built on abstinence.

1) As has been pointed out several times, sexual education with a sole or main emphasis on abstinence had been proven time and time again to be an abject failure that continually produces bad results. 2) Could you provide a link showing an instance where there was a movement to ban all mention of abstinence from a curriculum?

I believe you missed the point entirely and are apparently trying to make this about semantics in the language we are using. We both know that PP can provide pregnancy prevention services such as free/low cost contraceptives, condoms, etc. People that often take advantage of these programs would not have access to those things otherwise. I don't see any Right to Life or other "conservative" organizations (at least none that are widely publicized) backing free and low cost methodologies to prevent unwanted pregnancies such as passing out free condoms or providing free/low cost contraceptives at any 7/11 or in the general public. PP does do this as well as a host of other medical services. Basically, you just proved my point that free and low cost birth control prevents unwanted pregnancies. When people have easy access to these things, unwanted pregnancies are avoided (as are abortions which is one of the reasons why the abortion rate is decreasing). PP provides these services but the local 7/11 and the local Right to Life organizations do not.



Sure, we could have a discussion about where our tax dollars go. I don't want mine going to subsidize the paychecks of people that work at Wal-Mart, McDonalds. I don't want my taxes going to fund a bloated department of defense, homeland security, etc.

Want to stop subsidies to medical care and preventative services? That's fine, but there would be consequences which would cost us more in taxes in the long run. I'm more than OK with the government offering subsidies for preventative care because then it doesn't have to do intervention, which is far more invasive in our personal lives.

Also, there's this:

Medicare satisfaction survey - http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publicat...ivate-insurance

It looks like Medicare is outperforming private insurance according to a recent survey.

Medicaid satisfaction survey -
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2015/jun/does-medicaid-make-a-difference

It looks like there is no significant difference between medicaid and private insurance services and those on Medicaid patients appear to be similarly satisfied with their treatment when compared to private insurance.

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Responding on my iPad. Responding to multiple replies is much easier to do it in one reply but sometimes things get mixed up.





I didn't see myself or anyone else arguing against your data point. I argued against the point of the data that you provided. It is irrelevant to the overall discussion as your data point doesn't answer a basic question as to why PP performed more abortions, yet the overall rate is down. It literally adds nothing to the conversation. If you can't answer a basic question regarding data that you provide, then the data is irrelevant to the conversation.

Here's a list of PP services - http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/4013/9611/7243/Planned_Parenthood_Services.pdf

One of the services that PP provides is abstinence education within their comprehensive sex education classes.

Let us not forget that Planned Parenthood also kills children and harvests their body parts.

It does not matter WHY they murdered more babies the point is that they did. What do you want to argue about next why the idiot shot up a black church and if it is more important to argue why or more important to realize that he killed innocent people?

The "Why?" in any question absolutely matters, otherwise there is no point. You have to identify and understand the root root cause of a problem before you can find its solution. That goes for abortion, racism, poverty, government, and anything else.



Let us not forget that in part, through the actions of PP and similar organizations, abortions are also decreasing.

Let us also not forget that the people that make gotcha videos about PP to misrepresent PP's actions, but also lied about whom they were. Why haven't you also condemned these people as the sinners they are?

Just like the hidden camera in the Mitt Romney case, Once the truth is seen, it can not be unseen. No twist of the truth was needed in either case. Truth is Truth!

Now you can carry on with your defense of killing children and harvesting their parts and continue to promote our Culture of Death by talking around in circles but I have seen the TRUTH!

Planned Parenthood kills children and Harvests their body parts! TRUTH!

We already know why, see, there was this flag.....

fixed it for you.

TRUTH!

And Maxpower's defense of Planned Parenthood being caught on video killing and harvesting children is comparable to Mitt Romney saying "No, No, those are gottcha tapes by bad people! What I meant to say was not 47% of the people suck but that only 35% of the people suck!"

Ridiculous!

Yeah, people saw the truth and realized that PP wasn't doing anything illegal when the entire video was put into context. Just like the truth that PP has actually helped to decrease the amount of abortions across the country through their preventative care services. I would argue that PP has done more to prevent abortions than the people that fight against PP.

As someone that tries to be a moral authority on this board, you sure are very hypocritical. I guess sin is only a convenient attack toward others when it suits your interests. What happened to calling a sin a sin and all of the Bible quotes about how you should hate and fight against sin?

You may want to watch those videos again and check the laws. They weren't selling them for profit. You are either disregarding the facts or lying to suit your argument.

In fact, the investigation in Indiana found no wrongdoing - http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/indiana-clears-planned-parenthood-wrongdoing-videos-32793066

Gotcha videos? To compare, I used to work for Smithfield Packing. They take pigs and make pork chops. They own the entire operation from the impregnation of the hogs to the shipment of the meat.

A video (one of many) came out showing the sexing of piglets. The piglets are in little holding bins, and a worker picks them up and checks their sex. Females are tossed down a chute with the rest of the females, while males are castrated (using the grab and pull method) and dropped down the male chute. It was all very unemotional. It takes about 2-3 seconds per piglet. PETA would constantly send in people with hidden cameras to catch the action, and most of them were hired by the company to work.

One of the things that PETA would always point out was the amount of screaming by the piglets. A piglet will scream like 'bloody murder' when you'd just get near them, much less if you picked one up. I never heard complaints about how they obtained their falsely represented videos, though.

Did you ever complain when 60 minutes ran a sting video, like the one on pink slime, perhaps? I guess that was all good, as those guys were 'approved' reporters. You'd never find an 'approved' reporter from 60 minutes trying to run a sting on PP, no matter what atrocities they commit.

Neither is Wal-mart.... doesn't stop the left from droning on and on about how evil they are.

If for no other reason, PP should be shut down for being a racist organization with a stated mission to eliminate the black race from this country.

Actually, I usually wait for the context of things to play out before jumping to conclusions based off of an emotional reaction. I also try to do some basic research on an issue before forming an opinion, regardless of the issue.

Gosh. I thought he was just a racist that wanted to kill people to make himself infamous.

And therein lies the problem! Planned Parenthood may not have done anything illegal in killing children and harvesting their parts according to the laws in a Culture of Death!

I do not claim to be a Moral Authority, I claim to be a Human Being who see's that your Culture of Death and the Promotion of this Barbarism is completely WRONG and SICK! No matter how you twist it.

I choose LIFE!

Haggling about pricing for baby body parts is selling them for profit.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/...aby-body-parts/

Next time you want to call someone a liar, look in the mirror.

Then please explain to me why liberals are all for using gotcha videos against conservatives. Why do libs attack our food industries about their animal rights practices, but support PP and rail about the gotcha videos there? What in those videos, no matter how they were obtained, does not show a complete lack of humanity, and compassion? How can that possibly be acceptable in an evolved society?

That's because people on both sides do it. It's not just liberals or conservatives, it's people. I didn't freak out about pink slime or about animal rights abuses. I waited for the dust to settle to get the whole story.

If they both do it, then there must be no reason to complain. As for making up your mind, it seems to me you already have on the 'animal rights' issues. I guess they should have more rights than the unborn, huh? Don't worry, before too long PP will be selling babies for non-profit food, and then they'll have rights.

You may want to understand what you are talking about before leveling unfounded accusations -

http://m.snopes.com/fetal-tissue-sales/

Crappy link.

You may want to learn how to operate a computer before you go around posting dead end links.

Tell me again Max how you are only preventing children from living impoverished lives and being unwanted and how Abortion is the answer.

Seems I have heard it all before...

Indeed, the idea of ‘Vernichtung lebensunwerten Lebens’ (destruction of life not worthy of life) had been around since the 1920s and had taken additional force as an extension of the eugenics movement. Eugenics, whose prime idea was that only genetically ‘suitable’ people should be allowed to have children, had followers in many countries in the first half of the Twentieth Century, notably in America where several states – like Indiana – enacted legislation which made it legal to sterilize certain mentally ill individuals.

Not surprisingly, given his core belief in the notion of the ‘survival of the fittest’, Hitler embraced the ideas of ‘conventional’ eugenics, but wanted to take them to an extreme level. In a propaganda film like ‘Opfer der Vergangenheit’ (Victims of the Past), shown in 1937, the Nazi vision was made clear. Patients in mental asylums were revealed as suffering in their own minds, whilst the commentary made clear the cost to the state of keeping these people in care. The implication was obvious – if these people did not exist then the Nazi state would be much better off.
http://ww2history.com/key_moments/Holocaust/Hitler_authorizes_killing_of_disabled

It is amazing how that part of their history is always ignored.excused. It is also amazing how overwhelmingly racist their outcomes are ....

Black people are 12-13% of the total population, yet they are almost 33% of the total abortions. Think where the Black race could be with all of those additional Black voters ..... think of how much harder it would have been to ignore so many of their concerns if they held even kust a slightly larger share of the voting puzzle.

I am just shocked. According to Google, 1876 Black babies are aborted each and every day. (and while abortions among White women are down, abortions among Black women are up)

684,740 Black babies ... wiped out each year ...... Over 20 years, (1973 to 1993) that equals 13 million. In America today, those identifying as Black only, total 42 million. (also according to Google) 13 million potential Black voters .... right now ..... gone in the name of "convenience", and "choice".

Over 40 years? Well, wipe out almost 35% of the potential Black population today, as, using the 1876 number, over 40 years, roughly 26 million Black babies have been exterminated. Those Black babies might have had babies of their own, as well. One of them also might have been the next Martin Luther King ..... but we will never know.

Once more, the Black population today is roughly 42 million.

Think about the voting power Black people could have with 1/3 more in their numbers (potentially 68 million Black people alive today, instead of only 42 million) ...... but Planned Parenthood, and their allies, have made sure this could, and would never happen.

These numbers might be even higher, given that abortions overall have been in slight decline over the past 20 or so years. Who knows how many Black lives were destroyed in those earlier days. "Black lives matter" .... but do they really?

It's amazing the things you can talk people into by framing it as a "choice". A holocaust of this kind doesn't seem quite as bad that way.