DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... 2 immigrants in U.S. illegally are named to Huntington Park commissions

Those on the right? Try any of them. Democrats want new voters. Republicans (not conservatives) want cheap labor. None of them care about legal immigration.

and? there's a whole damn ocean that the refugee's just came from. you think a stupid fence is going to do anything?

my solutions addressed CORE problems.

you and others are offering feel good solutions. which is funny because you try and act like you're so enlightened on the problem over the politicians, yet all you have done is offered the same useless solutions, just like the politicians you seem to think you're above.

i've noticed that, specifically YOU, and others, when it comes to ANY solutions, you only offer band aid nonsense to address symptoms. you don't actually offer to solve the problem itself.

but carry on.

Ah, back in the day it was so simple.

You install a Dictator in Mexico with the instructions to close the border and he does. Problem solved.

ahh, the christian who hates abortions, love nuking people, and loves massive human rights violations in the name of border security.

buy me a beer.

This is exactly what I've been saying all along.

What baffles me is so many of those people advocating higher wages also endorse illegal aliens. You now have millions of people working for low wages that are in our nation illegally. If people simply could wrap their minds around supply and demand, they might see that such a huge influx of people willing to work for such low wages creates a situation that helps stagnate wages.

If people truly believe illegals only do jobs nobody else wants, they have no clue of the truth. If people wish for wages to begin to start rising again, getting millions of people out of our nation that are willing to work on the cheap would be the first huge step in making that happen.

i posted a video to a link on vice on another thread about this, where the farmers in Alabama needed illegals specifically because actual citizens didn't want to do the work.

there's a valid reason people say that. nobody is pulling that out of their asses.

It's been done. Bush had his guest worker program and expedited legalization process.. Obama had the 2 year guest worker type program and immigrants complained at the cost of the application, $465...

monthly disposable salary after taxes in:

quatemala: 506.11 $
Honduras: 764.29 $
mexico: 674.30 $
Colombia: 314.00 $
Nicaragua: 405.00 $

those countries are where most of the illegals are coming from.

465 is A TON of money from somebody coming from these countries. a lot of them who aren't drug dealers have never had that much money in USD in their lives.

why do you think alot of these american'swho retire live there? they literally live like king's and queens over there.

come on guys...core problems. lets talk about these core problems please.

So it should be free? Just come on over, sign your name, and have a nice day? Like it it's 1810 all over again?

And these weren't people from Guatemala that balked at $465/person, these were people that were already here.

once again, i'm talking core problems, not fix a flat solutions politicians try to come up with.

i never said it should be free, but one of the things i talked about in the other thread was adjusting the cost based off citizenship from the country in which they came.

i paid over 1600 for my wife's visa. doctors fee's, translator fee's, etc.

take a look at those prices again. who the hell from those countries are gonna afford 1600 dollars? then if you wanna do it the safe way, add in lawyer cost.

The people who are above average.. those are averages right?

Let me ask you a question, why exactly do we want to set up immigration to attract the least educated, the least successful, the least productive members of every central american third world country? Do you honestly believe that is a plan to make America BETTER? So what, so they can come here and we have to pay them $15/hour for shouting broken english through a loud speaker and getting my order wrong? or so they can soak up every landscaping and entry level construction job we have available, leaving lower income Americans complaining that there are no jobs and they can't get ahead?

Whether it's your school, your community, your team, your military, or your country, you make it better by trying to attract the BEST people, not by setting the entrance standards so low that everybody who shows up gets in.

I actually watch Vice and saw that episode. I don't dispute that immigrant farm workers are needed. I will tell you that the story you are referring to is only a piece of the puzzle and in no way represents the overall picture of what is actually happening.

I was a teen ager during the 70's. After moving from Dayton we moved to the suburbs in a small farming town. In that town was a cannery for tomatoes. Huge fields of tomatoes were grown and harvested by immigrant workers. The way they addressed that was through the guest worker program. There are legal means to have immigrant farm workers enter the country to do that work. So while the Vice episode you speak of gave a clear picture of the problem, they did not show there are legal means to address that problem.

Now let me explain exactly what I witnessed in the late 90's and after the turn of the century. At some juncture, you reach a saturation point. A point at which there are so many people here on an illegal basis, that the type of farm jobs you used in your example, become more of the exception than the rule.

In the late 90's I worked for a general contractor building schools, YMCA's and other commercial buildings. I actually ran the concrete division there but many of the building operations were hired out to sub contractors. I witnessed before my very eyes a large transition. When I went to work there, every sub contractor we had were American. The painting company was a minority business.

Within a 5 year period, the roofers, painters, and drywallers were all run by companies who hired illegals. It wasn't hard to tell either. No company names on their vehicles, no names on the work shirts or equipment. None could speak English with the exception of the foreman and he would only speak broken English with the job superintendent. To everyone else, he pretended he couldn't speak English at all.

I saw tax paying American citizens with homes, families and decent paying jobs, lose those jobs to people who didn't have a legal right to even be here. It was all about cheap labor. Illegal business dealings.

I don't deny that we need immigrant farm workers, but from construction to manufacturing jobs, the cheap illegal work force in our country is certainly helping to keep wages stagnant. That's the part of the puzzle that vice simply didn't report on.

"Let me ask you a question, why exactly do we want to set up immigration to attract the least educated, the least successful, the least productive members of every central american third world country?"

because that's what attracted us to come over to the U.S. in the first place!!! That's what america was founded on!!! our ancestors came over with with jack crap looking for a chance to make it. little to no education, no success in whatever european countries your ancestors came from.

thats what made our country the greatest in the world. anyone, no matter what, could come over and here and have a chance at the dream.

my Grandfather from Turkey came over here with absolutely nothing. it took him 10 years to save up for the Visa requirements, and even THEN, he still had to burrow money from extended family because it cost way too much compared to what he and the family was earning. he was homeless over here in the states for 6 months.

man come on bruh....that just made me die a little bit inside. we've become some cold blooded here in the states, we don' care about anybody but ourselves.

i need a drink.

Why does it have to be the Right?

Have you not noticed that NOBODY is proposing ANYTHING? Right or Left.

Either fix the system, dismantle it, or enforce it as it exists.

of course it doesn't hit all angles. it was 15 minutes long in a 30 minute episode.

i simply had to make the counter argument though. there is a huge problem with americans not wanting the work.

its a cluster crap problem for sure.

but people in general keep trying to have simple solutions for complicated problems, then wonder why the issue only got jacked up more.

Placing America first by attracting the best from other nations just doesn't pass the Liberal "Feel Good" test.

Thus we head for Third World status like the sheep we have become.

your ancestors probably wasn't the best either, but that didn't keep them from coming, did it.

But, don't most of them pay "coyote fees" to get here?

some. a lot of them pay the coyotes once they actually enter the states and start working.

it's the newest form of slavery.

They came to a wide open land of agriculture and natural resources.. minimal skills required. They didn't come to a land expecting the government to pay for their healthcare or their kids education or support them while they got on their feet. do you want to go back to that? "Welcome to America, you are on your own."? I'm sorry Swish, this isn't the 1800s any more. There is some irony in the fact that you (and others) have repeatedly said things can't be like they used to be, things shouldn't be like they used to be, that the way things used to be wasn't as great as we have painted it.. yet this, this one thing, should remain exactly as it used to be.


So I will repeat the question, is this what you want to return to? Or are we as a nation so wealthy now that we can just support all of these people so they don't have to go through this?


So let me get this straight, you are pro-choice because you don't want to bring people into this world into adverse conditions with no money even though they might some day become great... but you want us to open up immigration and let in a bunch of people who have no skills and no guaranteed financial support because that is what made us great 200 years ago?

Coyotes do that? Lead people in, on the promise that "hey, we'll pay you once we start working. Promise."

umm most of the illegals don't expect that either. they work they're asses off. you always see them in western union sending money back home.

get this through your head: you and others are exaggerating the percentage of people looking for a free ride. just like people exaggerate the amount of corporate welfare.

but thanks for adding to the extremes we deal with in this country. helping so much right now. man...it's gonna be either this way or that way, no grey area.

i didn't say it should stay the same. i SPECIFICALLY said we should do visa's off of average income based off country of origin though. i know that's what i said. i've also said i'm against illegal immigration plenty of times, but i'm at least sympathetic to the problems they endure.

which is why i say address core problems, not feel good solutions.

i want the U.S. to return to being a melting pot, not the constant dividing we seem to do. the dividing we're doing, that you're doing right now, is why there's pretty much no such thing as the american dream anymore.

it's pretty much a myth at this point, IMO.

and yes, because they're ALREADY born. once again, lower the visa requirements as far as financial goes. make the requirement that people on via's can't end up on the system, and if they do they face deportation.

should i say it again just incase you ignore it again? i can make a whole post saying that if you like. once more time, case by case visa cost based off country of origin.

i'm guessing you don't know how human trafficking works. cause you're asking some really odd questions.

Well, I guess I'm not an expert like you apparently are?

Just seems odd to me. Unless the coyotes are keeping back a family member of the illegal.

i'm not an expert.

but man, basic stuff here.

it's the same way prostitutes "pimps" are technically in a different country in europe even though they still gotta pay them.

sometimes it's yes, threatening to kill family. sometimes, when somebody has decent money, they get the visa's, but the passports are held until payment is done.

it's a bunch of different ways to exploit people.

I also always see them standing outside 7-11 wondering if they will get work that day.


No I'm not. Was your grandfather looking for a free ride? Would he have accepted a place to live and hot meals and medical care instead of being homeless? People looking for a free ride is one thing, people needing one is another...


You are about as extreme and angry as anybody who posts on here. I can count on one hand the times I've seen you acknowledge a good point if it didn't already agree with what you believed. You have developed an distinct "us against the world" mentality and you are one of "us" and me and others are one of them... every time we disagree with something you say or raise a counterpoint.


Then address the core problem of what we do with the millions of immigrants who get here and aren't ready to hit the ground running with a job? Being willing to work your ass off is one thing, having that opportunity is another... You've already admitted they don't have $500 to get the paperwork, how much money are they going to bring to survive for a month or 2 months or 6 months until they find a job?


Right, because the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 wasn't dividing... Views of immigration have changed since the early 1900s, primarily as a result of world wars.. nothing I did... and none of this has ANYTHING to do with the death of the American dream... The American dream started to die when corporations realized that instead of bringing immigrants over here to work in their factories for cheap, they could build the factories near the immigrants and have them work damn near for free. So you can blame, blame, blame all you want.. I'm not feeling guilty for having my opinions.


So a really poor guy from England can't come here but a really poor guy from El Salvador can, because the visa from England is $600 and the visa from El Salvador is $2.95?

So yes, if you want, you can keep saying it again, you can keep blaming me, you can keep insulting me... have at it. But if you want to sway my opinion, that's probably not the best route. And at least my opinion can be swayed, yours.. I doubt it.

didn't make any sense.

especially about the part with the counter argument.

isn't that the whole point in a debate. to counter?

Funny how liberals are screaming to cut defense spending, cut foreign aid, saying we need to take care of America first. Yet, here they are, proposing to put criminals from other countries before Americans.

that simple minded viewpoint is exactly why nothing gets done now.

We need to cut defense spending because we SHOULD. we just bought a bunch of useless ass planes the military didn't even ask for, and now they're sitting in a parking lot rusting up.

we SHOULD cut foreign aid to countries like pakistan, who had osama chilling drinking martini's in their back yard!!

this is part of taking care of america first, by finding core problems, discuss what needs to be done about core problems, and execute them.

but be simple minded, that's exactly why you're way of thinking is a direct reflection of the politicians that run our country. yet you gonna sit here and complain? they think just like you do!!

Just a general comment:

My grandfather came to the US at age 13. He was an orphan, and was brought over from England to work fields. I am very thankful that he was able to come to this country.

I think that we have to balance the number of people we can bring into this country though. We cannot just take the entire world into our borders if they all want to come. The system would just collapse, and it would do no one any good.

With this in mind, the US has to balance the number of unskilled people who want to come to this country, with the skilled labor who can fill certain specific jobs that already exist, and which need people to fill them.

We already know that we have a porous border with Mexico. I have read estimates on the number of illegals from Mexico at as low as 11 million to upwards of 20 million. This influx of persons entering the country illegally has to have an impact on the number of people we allow in legally. We simply cannot just let everyone in, or the system collapses.

With a controlled border, we could allow in more people legally. With an uncontrolled border, and maybe 14 million people here illegally from Mexico, this has to impact legal immigration. So, the illegals screw those in the system legally. That is the real shame of our system .... we reward those who break our laws, (and Reagan did so as well) and those who try to to things the right way are stuck.

Why do you feel America owes ANYONE other than natural born citizens the right to BE citizens. We are no longer a frontierland open to any and all who will help murder indians to expand the territory.

We are among the elite of the world along with a large poverty of our own to deal with. I see no reason to cheapen immigration costs. It shouldn't be cheap to become apart of the greatest nation on Earth. If you can't even pay a few thousand dollars to gain entry to our country then why do we even want you here? We want successful people immigrating here. Not some other nation's poor.

I know it's a strange notion but how about the USA put USA first once in a while.

I'm all for immigration reform and securing the borders. I'm just against racism toward Latinos.

There are many Canadians here illegally... nobody wants to send them back. There are people here from all over illegally, but Mexicans get all the hate. I have more respect for those hard working Mexicans then I have for the lazy Whites and Blacks that are blaming them for their problems!

This country needs a sterilization solution MORE than a wall at the border. There are way TOO many stupid people in this country, way too many.

I don't often agree with your views razor, but this time I do.

DC, I don't think I've ever been more ashamed of you. I expected a lot better from you. I could expect someone dumb to say something like this, but you're too smart to play the Josef Mengele of DT. Please readjust.

Payback for all the tens of thousands of Vietnam era draft dodgers...

Nice, know where you stand on illegal drugs...JMHO, thought/ideal world...our country based on law, upholding our laws...now, if you want to smoke pot, get the law changed....some, JMHO, stupid states have legalized....but, Ohio, not yet......my point is legal vs illegal, we, the citizens, MUST uphold the laws as much as possible....you disagree..with the hahahaha, you aren't alone, there are millions of potheads, but that doesn't make it right....all the best.

Can't pick and chose which laws you want to break....illegal is illegal...JMHO

JMHO, I get what you are saying about melting pot, etc., but here is what you don't get IMHO, praise for those hard working illegal workers, who you see sending money back to their families...HUGE PROBLEM, every dollar earned HERE is turned over about six or more time, generating jobs, prosperity HERE, every dollar sent out of country helps THEIR country, HURTS ours...THEY aren't part of melting pot if they're senting money HOME....a house divided can't stand....IF they want to become American, then legally bring their families here and become part of American dream....AND you're wrong, look at the stats of Asians and plenty of others....if you work hard, have an idea and make it happen, America is still the best place to be....a humping air conditioner pro can make $100,000 a year...can you live on that in Cleveland...yeah.

Most immigrants do send money home to relatives tho??? Apparently even legal immigrants can't put their country above their family members... Chinese immigrants sent over 60 bil back to China last year, the second highest after India.

To put it in further perspective, Mexico only got 25 bil in remittance last year.

Asian's don't go through nearly the crap that latino's go through.

and they get the added benefit of a positive stereotype in this country.

come on bro.....