DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum camp stuff 2015

Help me out here. I am seeing reports of DeSir beating out Gilbert, but I do not see where anyone (other than you) states it's DeSir doing well and not because of Gilbert failing. Where are you getting that? I would like to read the source.

NFL Network’s Albert Breer: Browns have ‘clear vision’ for way they want to win

Reporter sees similarities from Pettine’s days with Jets

In his one-day visit to Berea for Browns training camp, Albert Breer was reminded a bit of Mike Pettine’s days in New York.

The NFL Network reporter saw a foundation forming that was similar to what the Jets had in back-to-back AFC Championship appearances in 2009 and 2010. It channeled what the Browns had during the first half of 2014, too, as the team continues to build around a strong defense, talented offensive line and enough support on offense to take pressure off the quarterback.

“I know they feel like they’re deeper,” Breer said Tuesday during an in-studio appearance on Cleveland Browns Daily. “Really, you can see kind of how they want to build the team with the way they drafted in April and the types of players they’re bringing in.

“I think there’s a very clear vision for the way they’re going to win, and I think it’s the way they won early last year. It’s the way Mike Pettine saw a team win early in New York. When they got to AFC Championship games, it’s not about asking a quarterback to be a superstar. It’s about being a team that is progressively going to get better, and when the weather gets cold, play a type of game that’s going to hold up.”

When it pertains to quarterback Josh McCown, Breer said the 36-year-old veteran will be asked to play “point guard” with a wide receiving corps that doesn’t necessarily have a dominant, No. 1 receiver. Through six days of camp, McCown has shown to be capable of that assignment by finding Dwayne Bowe, Brian Hartline, Andrew Hawkins, Taylor Gabriel and others in a variety of different ways.

How it translates to the season could determine just how far the Browns go in the AFC North.

“Do you get Josh McCown from Chicago at the end when he was stepping in for Jay Cutler ... or are you going to get a Josh McCown that was in a bad situation in Tampa and wound up losing his job? So much of it revolves around that,” Breer said.“You don’t need him to be a superstar. You don’t need him to throw for 4,200 yards. You need him to be a guy who’s going to come up big in big spots and in other spots he’s not going to blow the game.”

There’s no telling when exactly the weather turns cold in Cleveland, but it’s always safe to bet on sooner rather than later. That’s an important point, especially with this year’s schedule, which features four consecutive games against AFC North opponents from November to early December and a Jan. 3 season finale against Pittsburgh at FirstEnergy Stadium.

The Browns have circled these division games as the key to achieving their goals in 2015. After going 2-4 in the division in 2014, Cleveland’s hoping to be better, and Breer acknowledged the obvious: It will be a tough task.

“I don’t think the AFC’s all that strong when you put the whole of it together but I think you could argue that if you take the top five teams in the conference, three are in the (AFC North),” Breer said. “It’s going to be difficult. Can you score with Pittsburgh? Can you do anything against the Baltimore defense? Those are the types of things when you’re here in camp you’re looking at.”

Link

nice article from breer ... our division and schedule is about as brutal as it gets in the NFL. I can't think of a division that's better than ours. NFC West and East may be on par, but maybe not

From what I have read, it seems like a little bit of both, although I think most would probably lean more in the direction toward Gilbert not playing like a first round draft pick.

Apparently he had some personal issues going on last year, but there were also some reports about a bad work ethic and maybe a bit of a bad attitude towards the end of the year.. I'm quite surprised because he seemed like a straight shooter coming out of OkSt... If it wasn't for Johnny's struggles last year, people would be hammering this kid. He should be counting his lucky stars that he is still somewhat under the radar.

Mingo could end up being a bust, but from what I hear, he works his rear end off. He's more of a guy who's physically in between a few positions.... He's kind of like that weak stretch 4 in basketball. Charlie Villanueva or Drew Gooden. Just too small to play one position, and not quite skilled to play the other. I blame the front office if he just doesn't work out with the team.

Justin Gilbert can't even seem to get on the field. That's on the player more than anything. We'll see once this thing is for real though.

I believe this team is capable of having a good season as it is right now. By good I mean 8 or 9 wins. However, in order to achieve those wins we need to have everything break right. Josh has to play better than he has in the past, others have to play up to their abilities, the coaches have to come up with solid game plans and we need to stay healthy. With all that we have a chance. One can only hope.

We as fans love to get ahead of ourselves, looking at the schedule, looking 4-5 games down the schedule... trying to figure out where we can make a run, and where we just need to tread water.. and despite what some might say, it really has no effect on the team. They won't stumble because YOU are looking ahead.

But they don't get that same pass. I wonder what happened after that huge Cincinnati win on that Thursday night. Like I get that Alex Mack's loss eventually took a toll, but I believe some other things also came into play.

It's easy to look at the first 3 or 4 games of this year's schedule and feel good, but we also know what fans of the teams we are playing are thinking.

I don't think the team respected Buffalo last year, and that was the first loss in the downfall (if you ask me, the downfall started immediately after the Bengals win when we layed an egg at home against Houston, which was a week before Gordon came back since some blame it on him). We didn't play the Bills like we did the Steelers and Bengals, and Saints and everyone else, and I believe it cost us. They were way too cocky and got in over their head in that game. They were not ready for a brawl.

With our track record over the years this team should NEVER disrespect anyone or get too cocky. We haven't earned that right!!

I don't think you ever really should. It's not college football. You don't get games against Georgia State or Kent State in the NFL. As cocky and arrogant as the Patriots are, I never really get the impression that they look past opponents or treat any one opponent as someone not worthy. They pretty much execute their game plan pretty consistent. For a lot of guys we've seen on the Browns, it's too late when they figure that out.

The Bills just controlled the LOS and dared us to throw.

That's why they are champions. Bill Bellichek, Tom Brady and other team leaders won't let them.

That's an awful long list of things that need to break just right.
And this is Cleveland.

Still way to early to call him a bust. Corner like QB isnt an easy transition. Some guys it just takes a bit longer and if we are still having this discussion next year, then he is probably a bust. it can click for these guys quickly.

It is why i hate hearing Mingo called a bust. He may be a bust but lets see what he can do.

All PFT did was pick up an article written by Mr. Positive Tony Grossi.

In his usual negative way, he implies that Gilbert is a bust and that both Pettine and Farmer need to be held responsible for it. His very last sentence speculates that both are on thin ice with Haslam. LOL. How can anyone defend this clown?

From all accounts Gilbert has improved. I have not read one single thing that says he hasn't improved. It just appears Desir has improved beyond expectations. Is it disappointing that the #1 pick from last year isn't clearly a starter with immense potential? I feel disappointment in that for sure. Is he a bust? Way too early to say.

Is Grossi an irresponsible journalist? 100% absolutely.

Does PFT just scour the web looking for locally written articles to regurgitate? Yes. That's what they do. No one has told them Gilbert was a bust. They picked it up from a speculative article from an irresponsible journalist.

The deflategate should make us all careful about what we read.

Desir really had a fantastic skillset but as Django pointed out during the draft, the guy hated contact and did not want to tackle anything. As we saw at the end of the year, last year, he really had embraced becoming a better tackler.

With Gilbert, it is learning how to get under the pads of the receiver and using that big body instead of trying to play like an undersized DB.

https://twitter.com/dan_labbe

takes a second to come up but the throw from Manziel to Wynn is just WOW!! Low snap and he gets that ball out without readjusting the grip and puts it in the perfect spot. the throw is excellent but how quickly he recovers the snap and gets the ball out was fantastic.

couple more videos in there as well

https://twitter.com/KenCarman

Sometimes the jokes just tell themselves, Jim Irsay.



https://twitter.com/Colts

So I'm listening to the RBS this morning ... I tried to give 92.3 a try, but if I listen to Baskin and Phelps for more than 5 minutes, I will fall asleep at the wheel. The RBS is also very awful, with Rizzo and Grossi usually on during my ride into work, but it's not monotone like Baskin and Phelps.

Anyway ... they keep commenting on how soft a camp Pettine is running. No intensity, a lot of standing around. Jarod Cherry is the most vocal ... which concerns me since he's a former player.

How are these guys getting hurt and what is Pettine's method to the madness here?

Andrew Gribble@Andrew_Gribble
Justin Gilbert getting some snaps in Haden's spot with rest of first-team secondary.

Maybe the fact that we are down to only 2 of our original RB being healthy, (Crow and Draughn) and have had numerous injuries at WR as well, has something to do with it.

To this point, Gilbert has been a bust.

You see, people can't have it both ways. IF you want to use everything you hear of a positive nature in camp as something that defines other players as progressing and use it for hope in the future, then you must also use all of the information in that same concept.

So far, Gilbert has been a huge disappointment and nothing can be seen showing any improvement. Using that as some kind of gauge is no less accurate than trying to say someone who is showing progression is improving their game.

Some wish to accentuate the positive while dismissing anything negative. The sword cuts both ways.

I don't even know what to say. LOL.

I'd like to think we are do for some good luck. Other teams get it so now it's our turn.

But Pit, only the open-minded posters give credence to the positive reports and belittle and berate the negative reports.

Looking at both the good and bad proves just how closed-minded you are.

Now, back to the article: I agree w/Mourg that it's too early to call the Gilbert a bust, but at the risk of being called "closed-minded," I think there are real concerns w/this guy.

Just look at this excerpt from the article:



How did y'all miss that one?!?

They didn't ask him if he thought he would start. They asked him if the goal was to earn a starting job, and this dude replies w/"We'll see what happens."

This is the same guy who last year said he would rather sleep than study film like K. Williams.

Blame the reporters all you want, but this guy has brought the negative comments onto himself.

It's pretty easy really. If the positive news is to be taken seriously, so is the negative news. Unless one decides to pick and choose to suit his or her purposes.

Here's the reality. Training camp is practice. Pre season is vanilla O's against vanilla D's. Anyone putting much credence into anything this time of year is fooling themselves.

We've had pre seasons that look great that turn into terrible seasons. I've seen teams have terrible pre seasons have great seasons. It means so very little.

But for those who believe it's indicative of something more, you can't separate all of the wheat from the chaff, then act like someone fouled because they point out the chaff.

5 observations from Day 7 of Cleveland Browns training camp

One week of training camp down, one to go before Cleveland shifts from the practice fields in Berea to FirstEnergy Stadium for its preseason opener against the Redskins.

A big change of scenery Friday in Columbus promises to break things up nicely.

Here’s the latest from Browns camp.

1) Pettine identifies under-the-radar players who have impressed

The first answer to the question was expected. The second necessarily was not.

After Thursday’s practice, Browns coach Mike Pettine fielded a question about unheralded standouts through the first week of training camp. This was an important question for a coach of a team that has shown it will keep and play the best 53 players, regardless of how they joined the organization.

Pettine was quick with his first name, tight end E.J. Bibbs. The undrafted signee from Iowa State has received regular recognition dating back to OTAs and has worked his way into a considerable number of important repetitions.

The other name came from the second-team offensive line, as Pettine singled out right tackle Michael Bowie, who missed all of 2014 with a shoulder injury. The former starter on Seattle’s Super Bowl champion offensive line has dropped a bunch of weight since his surgery and has been an impressive, physical presence since the Browns put on pads Saturday. That aspect of his game was something he couldn’t show at OTAs and mini-camp, but it’s been on display over the past few days.

“This is a guy that sat out all last year and that’s tough to be in the building and be injured,” Pettine said. “You just feel like -- because nobody knows what to say to you so it’s a very quiet world you live in. You feel very much alone that way. Here’s a guy that just worked and worked and really transformed his body. If you watch the tape, he’s so much quicker than he was before, even from the spring. Here’s a guy that’s pushing to be a part of what we do. That’s a credit to him.”

2) Injury bug continues to bite leading into Orange and Brown scrimmage

Coming off the heels of the news linebacker Barkevious Mingo had undergone knee surgery, the Browns saw two more players, defensive back Pierre Desir and tight end Kevin Haplea, leave the practice field with unspecified injuries Thursday.

Pettine said running back Glenn Winston, who hadn’t practiced since the start of training camp, also underwent knee surgery.

Running backs Terrance West (calf), Duke Johnson Jr. (hamstring) and safety Tashaun Gipson (unspecified) were among those who did not practice Thursday. Wide receiver Terrelle Pryor (hamstring) did not practice and will not participate in Friday’s scrimmage, but the Ohio State alum will make the trip, Pettine said.

3) Unheralded receivers continue to make big plays

One of the biggest plays of the day involved the smallest player on the field.

Five-foot-6 wide receiver Shane Wynn, a Cleveland native who joined the roster after OTAs, darted across the middle of the end zone and jumped to snag a pass from Johnny Manziel to give the offense a touchdown during an 11-on-11 red zone drill. One day earlier, he beat his defender with a double move and caught a 50 yard pass for one of the longest pass plays of training camp.

“He’s a guy that I think, for obvious reasons, gets overlooked just because of his stature and all he does is come out here and work and look to make plays,” Pettine said. “He’s done a nice job because we brought him in late, so he was a little bit behind as far as learning the system. Credit to him, he was able to pick it up quick, he knows what to do. When he gets a chance to make a play he makes it.”

And it hasn’t been just Wynn who, among the Browns’ cluster of undrafted wide receivers, has made a number of big plays.

Josh Lenz and Darius Jennings have shined with the second-team offense and have routinely been on the receiving end of touchdowns in red zone drills. At one point Thursday, Jennings ran a play with the rest of the first-team offense.

“There’s a lot of guys competing for probably a few spots,” veteran wide receiver Brian Hartline said. “I can’t say enough about those guys. Darius is getting better, Wynn is getting a lot better, Darius is always making plays.

“I think special teams will be a big part of it, their work ethic if it becomes a practice squad situation, but they all work hard. They all want to get better. They’re always feasting for knowledge and asking questions. It’s still early, but a lot of guys are doing a lot of good things.”

4) Browns linemen get their kicks

Alex Mack ended the madness.

The Pro Bowl center was the 11th lineman to attempt a 25-yard field goal at the end of practice in a competition to determine which side of the ball would wear the orange and brown camouflage jerseys. The kick was slow to develop, but it had just enough distance and the necessary accuracy to clear the uprights in the right spot.

With a chance to extend the contest, defensive lineman Phil Taylor missed … badly.

“Our backup kicker is not in the O-Line room or in the D-Line room,” Pettine said.

The defense still holds the lead in post-practice competitions, 3-2.

5) Other observations

•With Desir out and Joe Haden resting near the end of practice, Justin Gilbert worked with the first-team defense during the Browns’ final set of 11-on-11 drills.
•With Malcolm Johnson out again with a shoulder injury and Luke Lundy sidelined with a concussion, Bibbs occasionally lined up at fullback Thursday. “He has that skillset that he can handle some of that interior blocking, his interior blocking assignments,” Pettine said. “All of the receiving stuff, that’s his strong point. We’ve got to get him coached up a little bit better with the other jobs, that’s certainly a void now with (DB) Malcolm (Johnson) out
•Celebrity chef Michael Symon took in Thursday’s action from the sidelines.
•Gilbert, Travis Benjamin, Shaun Draughn and Taylor Gabriel took turns at kick returner during a special teams drill.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...5f-f967c431a577

Camp means nothing according to you...JMHO, ask the guys getting pink slips if it means nothing...Desir has four mouths to feed-his,wife,two kids, wonder if he MIGHT work harder than 1st rd pick....camp means plenty unless you want to get a real job...or use your degree/if you got one AND somebody is hiring....plenty of guys think camp and preseason is of UTMOST importance...how we keep the right guys, cuz some good players are going bye-bye....GO Browns!!!!

In case it went over your head, which obviously it did, I meant it means little in regular season as how the team as a whole will ultimately perform.

I hope you have a better grasp now. lol

I'm not saying he will be a bust. I'm saying he is to this point. All you really have to do is look at Haden at the exact same timetable. Their draft status was similar where they were chosen. One was a starter by the mid point in his rookie year and one can't crack the starting line up and is currently slated behind a 4th round pick.

I'm not one who says he will continue on this path. He may very well turn it around and be a great CB. But it seems some take every little thing that happens in training camp as some great sign of the future. If that's how people are gauging things, then at this point, Gilbert is a bust.

we made our yearly trip to TC today ... a few quick observations while I have a little time:

- we spent most of the first part of practice near the DBs ... Desir looks the part. Very fluid and athletic and was eager to get into drills. Gilbert ... not so eager to participate.

- Gaines wasn't doing a drill correctly and had to redo it multiple times

- Haden is in his prime I can tell ... very compact and a leader 100% of the time

- Gipson sat out; Whitner was barking quite a bit at Poyer

- MY GOD Shelton is huge. I mean I knew he was big ... but man he's BIG. And he was in on every rushing attempt

- IMO Kirksey is improving ... he was shadowing WRs across the middle and was very vocal ... I look for him to break out this year

- Bowe and Pryor were pretty animated with fans and other players ... interacting every chance they could. Pryor seems pretty comfortable that he'll be here a while IMO

- Rodney Smith (WR #17) is a STUD. Not sure he'll make it, but he flashed today

- WR Lenz is a Welker/Edelmen type player ... not sure he'll make it here, but I think he will somewhere at some point

- Our TE's are very slow and deliberate. Housler/Dray/Barnidge are very similar, which is why Bibbs will probably make it because he offers a change up

- West looks much thicker this year, but he didn't do much today. He didn't participate because of his injury, but kinda just stood around and stutter stepped a little bit

- I bet Draughn makes the team. He was very active and in on every possession

- McCown had a few nice strikes (mostly down the field) but as we know, he kind of panics when there are people in his area. He becomes very erratic and even his dump offs seem to sail high. But he had a nice pass to Dray and another one to Hartline from what I saw. He also fumbled the snap on the first or second play.

- Johnny seems MUCH more comfortable and relaxed in the pocket this year. He had a string of 3/4 straight passes that were on the money and down the field ... but he also made a few very boneheaded throws across the middle

- Orchard played a lot in place of Mingo, but he didn't seem to be very disruptive ... he seems more "heavy" than the other LBs if that makes sense

- the kicks at the end by the linemen were hilarious ... Phil's barely made it off the ground haha

- Dansby is without question the leader of the defense. He is so vocal and into it during each play ... you gotta love his demeanor. Plus, he's still a hell of a player

- Got a picture with Aaron Glenn ... didn't even know he coached our DBs

- The WR cuts are going to be BRUTAL this year. Not that we have stars, but we have parody and some depth

- I don's see us keeping more than 2 QBs. Thad barely got any reps and Shaw's arm strength is a huge issue IMO. I see us keeping 2 and adding a RB or WR

- The OL was rotating a TON today. Erving was in and out. Bowie played RT quite a bit. Mack was pulling on nearly every play I saw ... and he looked good.

Okay, more later guys

Thanks, Dawg. These reports really help us others in appreciating what is going on...

Just circled around to watch that. Very, very nice. Footwork looks decent in the pocket too (granted it's camp) but yeah, impressive play by JF there on that one to Wynn.