DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Manziel Continued

Needless to say the Browns organization has not exactly made the best decisions. Besides maybe the Raiders it's hard to argue that this organization is numero uno as far as ineptness. This team does not have it's QB of the future currently on the roster...I'm keeping my fingers crossed for that next year.

If the Browns fire Pettine and Farmer after this year they will continue that ineptness.

Are you not at all encouraged about Manziel thus far? How can you definitively state that he's not the QB of the future?

Joe Thomas: Manziel proved he's ready to be a starter

By Kevin Patra
Around the NFL writer


Johnny Manziel has a ways to go before snatching the starting gig away from Josh McCown, but Manziel has won over one large critic: Joe Thomas.

"He's really proved to a lot of people that this is important to him and he's ready to be an NFL starting quarterback,'' the offensive tackle said Friday, via the Northeast Ohio Media Group. "Playing well in the scrimmage tonight and looking like an NFL quarterback is another good step in the direction that he wants to go. He's just earning that trust of his teammates that he's going to need to do if he wants to be that starter. He impressed a lot of people out here tonight.''

Thomas' comments sit in stark contrast to his previous criticism of Manziel, including saying in April the quarterback "lost a lot of trust" by how he conducted himself after being named the starter last season
Manziel played well in the Cleveland Browns scrimmage Friday night, completing 9-of-11 passes for 93 yards and two touchdowns. We won't get carried away about a game in which the quarterback can't get touched, but it was a positive step for the second-year passer.

"We always knew he had the talent,'' Thomas said. "So it was never a matter of the talent that he had. You're starting to see the work that he put in off the field, but the commitment that he's made in the meeting room. Studying film when he doesn't need to be. Doing the things that a starting quarterback has to do. I think you're seeing it now that he's in competitive situations he's able to let that talent go and play well. And that's what you saw today.''

However, one positive scrimmage does not a starter make. Thomas reiterated that McCown is still the Browns' starter, even if he's optimistic about Manziel's performance.

Josh has done so many good things that to me it's not really a conversation about who should be the starter right now,'' said Thomas.

It's a baby-step process for Manziel to become the quarterback the Browns organization needs. Getting on the good side of a leader like Thomas is a positive stride forward.
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Yeah, it struck me, too.......but it struck me the wrong way. Just as his comments about coaches and him working together. Just as how it was so freaking evident that Wilcots and Mayock were prepped as to what to talk about.

I think Farmer is a freaking jerk! The more he talks, the more I don't like him.

I think everyone needs to be careful in regards to the offense. You are NOT allowed to hit the QB in scrimmages or TC. That makes a world of difference. Furthermore, in the 7 on 7 drills, there is NO pressure whatsoever. That is so huge.

Heck, preseason games are way more intense that TC and scrimmages, but even in those games, many have been deceived by what they thought they saw. Any of you remember how great guys like Weeden looked in preseason games?

Things change when guys can unload on you. Things change when teams bring crazy blitz packages. Things change when teams show you one coverage pre-snap and another post-snap.

Keep it real, y'all.

far as I know they had the same rules in last years scrimmage which is why I compared the two... I think what, the O scored what 3 points last year?

I am not comparing the two, tex. I am just saying that one needs to consider the nature of what the circumstances are. You can choose to accept that advice or not. Up to you.

I hope you didn't take what I said as a negative about our QBs? I know that it is very difficult to offer an opinion about our team around here w/out being branded as a hater or a negative poster.

I was just speaking in generalities. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well the terribleness of the offense carried over into the preseason, so it's not shocking that they were also terrible in a scrimmage.

The more he talks, the more I like him.

So............you like guys that are self-serving?

I don't believe he's self serving.

What is it about the interview yesterday that you think made him look bad?

Not at all ... I Think most of your comments on the scrimmage have been pretty much spot on... there is no doubt a scrimmage can not compare to a real game even an exhibition

I am just saying that I thought the Offense did well last night as a whole... and those they are saying the reason for that is our defense stinks while offering no football reasons to back it up are being overly dismissive, ( not implying you are).

That is all and nothing more

He went out of his way to not-so-subtly diss Hoyer and Shanny. It was obvious that the entire telecast was driven by a directive of how the Browns are not dysfunctional and how well Farmer and Pet work together.

Come on, Rish.........you tellin' me you didn't notice that?

Who gave the directive and why was it given?

Vers Dog, are organizations suppose to say they're not working as team, dislike each other, and love the guys who left...no org does that....JMHO, assume you're married, is your marriage PERFECT, never made...I THINK Pet and Farmer have same views on players, Farmers texts were stupid, he owned up and moved on....I don't care what this years record ends up being ...I hope we retain both guys....and back on subject...hope Manziel keeps improving cuz he could be the man....GO Browns!!!

Pet got his coaching staff and FArmer didnt get fired. I think they are gelling. I did notice the shot at Hoyer but I didnt notice any shots at Shanny although mayock might have as he and the Shannahans have never really seen eye to eye on anything lol

What's even funnier is that you dare compare Brian Hoyer with Marty...Now that's funny...

In my wildest dreams I cannot see Manziel being great or even average after what we saw last year. Yes, maybe he has turned things around in his personal life a bit, but that does not mean it will translate to the field. Any QB can be good in a scrimmage or preseason. How many times have we seen that and got excited only to be highly disappointed once the real games started? So to answer your question, I am not yet encouraged about Manziel and that won't happen until I see it during the regular season.

JM has some real great qualities,but it's suited for the college game. Loved watching him at A&M,but it doesn't work in the pros. I'm sure he will win some games and have his moments,(and I'll be cheering when he does) but we need a real franchise QB. Is it possible he could turn it all around? Yes,but so is me growing up.
My money is on...chalking this up to failed Browns QB experiment #1,123,453...and bringing in the next contestant.

*Thinking to myself* This was a practice and everybody who is giddy about the offense and bashing the defense over a practice, or making judgements about a player starting over one practice sure knows very little about football.

Actually there is very little interest in the truth when it comes to Hoyer, its more fun to make stuff up then TRY to debate the lies.

Hoyer was offered a contract at the end of the season by the Browns. He said hold up I want to meet with the staff, and those meetings happened. Sometime after those meetings went down Hoyer with Text were suppose to sit down and finalize a deal. In the mean time McCown became available and Flip having worked with McCown wanted McCown. Period McCown is here because Flip wanted him.

Now just so you all can get a real sense as to WHY I wanted Hoyer back here, let this sink in. Since 1999 when the Browns were re born there has been ONE and only one QB that has posted a winning record as a Browns QB. That QB is Hoyer. So while many of you THINK (wrongly) that we will easily replace Hoyer, you have taken on a monumental task of trying to explain the past 15 years prior to Hoyer. If its so damned easy then I feel certain it can easily be explained away. Or like ALWAYS disregarded and replaced with a dream a hope a prayer.

You compound that all by who his replacement is and well you end up with me. But I didn't get here without the facts so to speak my math adds up, it makes total sense and I'm not banking on a prayer (McCown).

As for JF he has made progress and NOW I like most of you have to pray he can wrestle the starters spot from McCown or else I get to suffer through another season of losing just like always.

So...you wanted Hoyer to return based on his win/loss record over a couple of half seasons. Fair enough and that makes sense.

I was done with Hoyer by the end of the Colts game last year. D-O-N-E done and based solely upon his performance.

If I were the GM of that team sitting in the owners box, I would have sent a slew of texts myself.

The team has moved on..so have I.

Winning QB's are easy to come by so I understand your stance............

Then I assume also you have nothing for McCown because poor performances define his career. It's who he is. Your mistakenly thinking that I didn't want a better QB. I wanted a better QB then Hoyer but McCown isn't that guy and never has been. You fail on so many levels to take it all in. Hoyer was blamed for the Int's but the receivers via their own admissions said they ran the wrong route's. How are you at math BTW.

I don't want another Hoyer debate, and I'm not accusing you specifically of making stuff up but there is a ton of it in regards to Hoyer. Stick with the facts and I have zero to say.

And one other that did not have a losing record...Jake Delhomme.

Completely agree.

It was a scrimmage and JF looked like a QB, but he has a ways to go. My prayer for the team or one hope is that JF takes the starters spot.

McCown does not = Hoyer he never has only in the dreamy eyed fan fairy land.

Like I said to Willy explain the 15 years of losing Browns QB's and out of them all there was is one winner, then do some math and if McCown comes up equal you need to sue the hell out of the LI school district.

Just like always you al,l will ignore the FACTS in favor of the dream. When Vers put up the stat that the Browns were 1-16 with out Hoyer and 10-6 with you all ignored that too. So 15 years of losing QB's prior to Hoyer isn't going to slow you all down. McCown had one winning streak in his entire career and now he will be a winner cause he is a Brown, of course once again you have to ignore 15 years of losing QB's to get to that. SMH why bother have you dream...../ nightmare to follow....

Well of course we won't KNOW for sure.. What the hell was I thinking LOL

Actually, I phrased it in such a way that someone like you could take me to task. But of course I know for sure that we will never know the entire story FOR SURE.

Does that make you feel better now

Careful now..

The question is do I go with a streak -vs- a QB's body of work?

Yup had a horrific 4 game stretch but prior to that he was very sound and his good streak spans a larger body of work. Not to mentio you have to leave a lot of things out like receivers for instances admitting they ran the wrong routes. But of course you can't account for that so why bother....

Again when it comes to McCown he for the 1st time in well forever has a streak of games where he plays winning football and again that defines him.... whats really weird is his 12 year career doesn't define him his 5 game run does.... cause I just can't cry for ya Tab.

Just some general comments here.

Hoyer was not offered a contract at the end of the year. We kept saying we were gonna sit down and talk with him and just like Dawson we never had any intentions of bringing back.

If I wanted a starting QB I would probably take Hoyer over McCown but if I want a mentor bridge type QB then I want McCown. He loves teaching and he wants to raise everyone around him. Hoyer had that Farve mentalisty, shut up give me the ball and get out of my way and thats a damn good quality for a winning QB. Johnny has always had that quality and it is narcissistic but that drive and confidence is a must.


Now what I saw in the scrimmage was the 2nd team defense consisted of a lot of guys that are gonna be starting. Shelton and Orchard would have caused McCown to wet his pants on a few plays, hell i think if johnny hadnt ran they would have tackled him lol.

I didnt think McCown handled the perceived pressure very well but he did have some excellent throws. The couple balls he dirt napped when there was no reason to do so worries me. The corner throw Williams should have ran back was a Brandon Weeden colt McCoy throw. No reason to make that throw.

With Johnny, I loved what I saw from his feet and man he got the ball out pretty damn quickly and with accuracy. he has shown enough to now make it a competition heading into preseason and thats exactly what everyone on this board was wanting. Even if you arent a Manziel fan, having him step up show pocket awarness, pocket poise and accuracy is the best chance for us to make something of this next decade of football. Most importantly, he looked like a natural thrower of the football, that goofy ass robotic mechanics was gone.

Also one thing I want to say on our backup dbs, they were in really good position most of the night. There were some very good throws made. Hell the pass to Lenz that he misjudged was a perfect pass, excellent coverage and should have been a TD. Amazing throw. OO and my boy Bibbs is making this team that TD pass he caught from Johnny was incredible.

Your wrong..................

LINK:http://dawgpounddaily.com/2015/01/22/brian-hoyer-approached-browns-contract-extension/

The FACT is Hoyer said he and Text were suppose to sit down after his meeting with Flip and Pet... As I said before that meeting never took place but the Browns had money on the table the one hold up was Hoyer wanting to meet with Flip and Pet before finalizing a deal.

as i said we never offered him a contract. Hoyer's agent said they left the door open meaning they are open to discussion but there was nothing from us on the table. Even in one of Farmer's pressers he said he didnt sit down with Hoyer nor his agent.

We took our offer off the table when his agent leaked to the press they wouldnt sign in Johnny was still on this roster and that was it.

The door was open alright and farmer wa probably telling Hoyer dont let the door hit ya on the way out but there wa NO contract offer.

mourg...so now we are down to posting disputed rumors that are bizarre and unbelievable.




Brian Hoyer disputes report that if Johnny Manziel is on roster, he won't sign with Browns: 'It couldn't be further from the truth'

October 15, 2014 at 5:30 PM, updated October 16, 2014 at 7:49 AM
link


BEREA, Ohio -- Browns quarterback Brian Hoyer opened his press conference Wednesday by re-addressing the report that he won't sign a long-term deal with the Browns if Johnny Manziel remains on the roster.

This time, he emphatically disputed the report, and used the platform to slam the door shut on any more questions about his contract.

Hoyer addressed Jason Cole's Bleacher Report story on Monday, but hadn't yet seen the video. Once he watched it, he felt compelled to speak out very strongly against it.

"First of all, I want to address what we talked about the other day,'' said Hoyer, before even being asked any questions. "I've said all I needed to say about the topic, but after (a reporter) mentioned the report, I wanted to see it for myself and it couldn't be further from the truth. There's no accurate information in that.

"I've never talked to that guy (Cole) in my life, so from here on out my main focus is Jacksonville, and if you guys want to talk about that, you can talk to the guys upstairs or my agent, Joe Linta, and from here on out I'm onto Jacksonville.''

Cole told cleveland.com that he spoke to three sources within the Browns organization for his story.

Manziel, on his way out of the locker room Wednesday, said he didn't have time, "but I'll talk to you on Friday'' during his weekly meeting with reporters.

Coach Mike Pettine was also asked whether Hoyer's contract situation -- he'll be a free agent after this year -- is a distraction.

"It can be if we allow it to be,'' he said. "To me, that's generated externally, and internally we're focused on the task at hand. It's something that you have to deal with -- issues and distractions along the way. Distractions come in all shapes and sizes, and when you talk about dealing with success and dealing with prosperity it's, 'OK, now you've got a guy that's playing well. Look at his contract situation.'

"This is just an example of that. Brian will be the first one to tell you he's focused on this game just like we all are. If things weren't going well, then we'd be dealing with a different set of distractions. It's just part of the external noise that will test our ability to stay focused."

When asked Monday about the Bleacher Report story, Hoyer said, "I don't think I need to say any more than I'm from Cleveland and this is where I want to be. But I also am a competitor, so I want to be somewhere where I'm playing.''

Cole reported that everyone he's talked to that's involved with the situation has told him the same thing: that Hoyer won't make a long-term commitment to the Browns if Manziel remains with the club.

He said even if the Browns offer Hoyer a deal that averages $10 million to $12 million a year, "he's not going to accept that deal if he still thinks there's a challenge coming from Johnny Manziel.''

Asked Monday he'd like to get the contract done during this season, Hoyer said, "I'd rather focus on playing. That's my main emphasis right now. Like I said, I'm focused on Jacksonville.''

He said he doesn't check in on his contract situation "unless my agent calls me. It's not anything that I'm concerned about."

Linta told Tom Reed of cleveland.com that Hoyer is content to play out the season before negotiating a new deal.

"The ball is in their court," Linta said. "We're willing to wait until the end of the year to see how it plays out."

Hoyer, now 6-2 with the Browns, will be looking for starter's money, which could be in the $12 million a year range. If he continue to play this well, his pricetag will only go up. Currently, he's No. 8 in the NFL with a 99.5 rating thanks in part to seven touchdown passes and only one interception.

He's also leading the league with an average of 13.6 yards per completions and tied for third in the league with six passes of 40-plus yards.

Coach Mike Pettine told Peter King of The Monday Morning Quarterback on Sunday night that the Browns, who haven't talked to Linta since May, would likely revisit the situation during the season.

There were two stories earlier this year both Browns and Hoyer's agent.

Browns, Farmer, pretty much stated he was keeping options open. As soon as Hoyer's agent leaked/stated Hoyer wouldn't sign unless Manziel was gone, I believe that stopped any further negotiations from Farmer. Neither side confirmed nor denied. All I know as soon as it was stated Hoyer or Manziel Farmer went after McCown.

I think Hoyer gambled on the Manziel misfortunes. I don't blame for trying either. If Hoyer got Manziel out of the picture, Browns are his team. He needed a better showing end of last season. If so, I think he easily gets his wish. Hoyer didn't want to play second fiddle to some punk pure and simple.

Mourg they did talk the meeting between Hoyer Flip and Pet did happen between the time Hoyer met with Flip and Pet and the meeting with Text was to take place McCown was released and Flip wanted McCown. Those are facts unless Hoyer was lying which I don't believe he was and those words came straight from Hoyer. In fact he said Text sent him a text asking him to come in so they could talk. That meeting never happened but the Browns were exploring bringing Hoyer back.

The we won't sign if Johnny is here was a fabrication, it never happened. The one thing it does prove is, is that people believe what they want.