DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Manziel Continued

+1, there we a few comments by Farmer and Pett that indicated Hoyer/Manziel were just competitors...not good teammates...JMHO, it's really nice Thomas comes out and says Johnny's done good things, now respected, and just needs to continue to work...McCown is man today, JF could be the future....AND only 22...GO Browns!!!!

What struck me was Farmer's comment about having competition at a position without sabotaging your teammate.

Maybe we now know for sure why Hoyer is gone?

What Joe Thomas said about Johnny Manziel, the transcript

Pat McManamon, ESPN Staff Writer
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I was one of the people asking the questions of veteran left tackle Joe Thomas when he spoke about Johnny Manziel’s performance in the intrasquad scrimmage Friday night at Ohio State.

The transcript is worth seeing in its entirety because Thomas very clearly lays out his feelings about Manziel and about Josh McCown.

Q. What do you think tonight means for Johnny Manziel?

A. It’s a good step for him because he knows he didn’t do the things he wanted to last year and have the type of season he wanted to last year. And he had to make amends for the mistakes that he made last year.

Fifty good things are wiped out by one mistake in this business. He had a long way to go to get back into the good graces with the team, but he’s made all the right steps since he stepped back in Berea back in April, and even before then.

He’s really proved to a lot of people that this is important to him and he is ready to be an NFL starting quarterback.

I think playing well in the scrimmage tonight and looking like an NFL quarterback is another good step in the direction that he wants to go.

He’s just earning that trust of his teammates that he’s going to need to do if he wants to be our starter. I think he impressed a lot of people out here tonight.

Q. Has he reached the point where you trust him?

A. I think so, but I think on the other hand Josh (McCown) has done so many good things that to me it’s not really a conversation about who should be the starter right now.

Q. But isn’t it nice to simply see Manziel be productive?

A. We always knew he had the talent. It was never a matter of the talent that he had. It was the other things that were getting in the way of him being able to be himself on the field.

You’re starting to see the work that he put in off the field, not only with the rehab that he went through and the changes he’s made in his personal life but the commitment that he’s made in the meeting room. Studying film when he doesn’t need to be. Doing the things that a starting quarterback has to do.

I think you see that now that he’s in competitive situations, he’s able to let that talent go and play well. And that’s what you saw today.

And here is what Browns owner Jimmy Haslam had to say when asked what it meant to see Manziel play the way he did in the scrimmage:

“I think he’s starting to grow up and he’s starting to understand that you have to work hard and you’ve got to get after it every day. Hopefully he’s learning to do that. He’s got to prove that he’ll do it over a period of time. But so far so good.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...-the-transcript

Nope - because we are all speculating and reading meanings into things - that is not "knowing". Having said that I think it was definitely a significant part of it - it's why there was very little engagement from the Browns FO after the end of the season. The other factor was the epic collapse of Hoyer's form, which may or may not be explained by a host of theories including how faast he came back from his injury.

I liked what I saw from McCown and JM - but it's still training camp. Even if they both look good in pre-season, it won't mean anything. . . . But better and more encouraging than last year at this stage.

The Johnny we are seeing right now is better than the Johnny I expected to see last year. Improved pocket awarness, quicker decisions, better at reading and anticipating is what we are getting. If we get this level of performance on a weekly basis, its gonna be a fun season.

What Farmer said spoke volumes as to why Hoyer is now in Houston. I wasn't speculating the lack of interaction between Hoyer and Johnny last year . I watched every game and the normal interaction between a starter and backup, that you see on every other team didn't exist.
When Johnny went down and Shaw became the starter, Hoyer amazingly became Mr. Teammate.

It also could have been very difficult for Hoyer to interact with JM... Assuming JM wasn't giving a damn, Hoyer possibly couldn't interact..How do you interact with a player that JM was last season.

Then here comes Shaw and Hoyer acted more as a teammate to Shaw.. Very possible because Shaw gave a damn while JM didn't, so Hoyer felt he could interact with Shaw..

Now we hear how McCown is interacting with JM... I would would bet it has a lot to do with JM's new attitude... I wonder how McCown would be toward JM if it was last seasons JM and his attitude he had to deal with.

JF looked like a QB but he has a long way to go and it was just a scrimmage we are still 0-0 and I'm pulling for the guy cause if McCown is the starter we are looking at 2-14.

Couldn't help but to notice how badly he was staring down his receivers if he does that in a game he will get picked. It's the next part of his game he needs to work on. But I loved his arm strength and he fit the ball in some tight windows. He moved well in the pocket and created space while keeping his eyes down the field. All positives.

The it was Hoyer's fault JF was a lazy drunk crowd are unreal. It's a reflection of the mistreatment and unfairness that Hoyer was subjected to by most of you. SAD and it displays one thing IGNORANCE and nothing else.

I don't know if other posters would agree with this but I would like to see our coaches keep pushing JF hard in practice and in meetings so he can learn what he has to but I would also like the coaches not push too hard for him to start right away. Let's be cautious with him until he is really READY to start. Let's not make the same mistakes we've made in the past. JMO

^THIS

Let's see, Hoyer was let go for being a bad team mate... to ONE player? How odd, 51 other players on the damn team had no problem with Hoyer, and in fact liked him enough that they supported him and were still willing to play for the guy when he started struggling.

Did it ever occur to some out there that it was JM who was being the poor teammate?

Unless someone can point to where Hoyer tore out pages from Johnny's playbook, or was the guy that told Johnny the wrong time to show up for a meeting... any conspiracy about Hoyer being a bad teammate is asinine at best.

JMHO, your steady support of Hoyer is nice...BUT, FO and Pett MUST know stuff we fans have no clue about...you are correct JM stunk as player and human being last year..BUT it is interesting that little effort was made to keep Hoyer, especially at HIS asking price...I liked his quick decisions and accuracy in begin of year, but he stuck the place up later...bottomline, glad JM is making progress AND it seems better karma exists in QB room this year...GO Browns!!!

You know, out of all the scenarios proposed on this board, this one makes the most sense to me. How can you develop camaraderie with a guy who's a party boy, a player who doesn't work at his craft and seems to not take the game seriously? I can't say I could fault Hoyer for seeing nothing positive there to work with.

Isn't he in Houston?

Well said eotab!

Last year our first and 2nd team offense led to 3 pts. The highlights consisted of a couple johnny runs and hoyer completing a 3rd and long. They sucked. We can say its a scrimmage and can criticize the crap out of them but last year the media was trying to drum up something positive.

goes to show the diff between last years defense and this years.

I think the key word in all of the posts regarding Hoyer's interest or lack thereof in "helping" JFF is speculation. WE really don't know what happened and can drive ourselves nuts and argue back and forth about whose theory makes more sense.

I am looking at Josh & JFF as our QBs now and hope they do well and the Browns win. That's all I can do just as looking back at past drafts and commenting "we should have taken the pro bowler in rd3 instead of who we chose,

we can forever argue if hoyer got a raw deal, but the fact is hes gone.

now a great many months later, it looks like the reasoning behind that is coming to light a bit more.


Pettine has said he regrets having created a competition last season at the QB position. It pitted two guys against one another (understandably). Maybe hoyer was a bad teammate, maybe manziel felt alienated from the QB room after hoyer quieted to him and it drove him away from the game. i have no clue, that part doesnt matter. What we know is, those two guys didnt work well together.


love it or hate it, Manziel is here and we spent a first round pick to get him-- we are committed.






mccown is a VETERAN. they have spoke of how important that is to them right now. the dude was targeted for that reason. but if you believe these guys whos jobs are on the line dont believe mccown can play like he did in chicago if they give him an awesome offensive line, a running game, adequate receivers, and a great defense-- you are crazy.

they feel mccown is as good or better than hoyer, and they feel he is a better mentor and teammate to manziel. they know he is 36 and not gonna start for more than another year, and they know the fans and ownership wont give manziel 3 years on the bench. this is a 1 year stop gap.


those saying its a 2-14 season, i just dont get it?

so your saying this years defense will be no where near as good as last years?

judging by the Scrimmage what do you think?

I'm speculating there's a lot of speculating that goes on with this board and most topics and players related to a subject being discussed..

With sports talk, along with other certain topics of discussion, there will be much talk which includes peoples ideas of a situation that will be considered speculation.

What one has to consider is accepting the fact that speculating can also lead to a good conversation of the topic at hand.. It also can lead to bad discussion.

Considering this is a message board and we come here to discuss topics and post our views on the subject... I will accept speculation as a reason to discuss the subject or thread I prefer to respond to.

When good hard facts aren't presented without true evidence of being accurate without reason of doubt.. what else are we to do but speculate.

I understand.

I didn't really mean the fact that JFF & Hoyer did not like each other or get along. I was referring to speculation about who was to blame. For instance some implied Hoyer was not a team player and others implied Johnny made it difficult to mentor with his attitude.

well I will actually answer the question with a statement and not another question...

I think Shelton will be an upgrade in our Run D and mitigate the lose of Rubin. It should afford us the opportunity to not have to crash down our DE and OLB to protect the middle, I was concerned with his bulk that he may not have the feet to change direction in the phone booth that is the interior line, but his feet, balance and burst all looked excellent, that should lessen the cut back lanes in the Guard to Tackle gaps we allowed way too much last year.

I think the outside edge will be better manned against the run with Bryant and Soloman(?), over Sheard,( and with the reason stated above) though I am concerned about coverage in the flats.

I liked the movement of Kirskey last night over what I saw his first year and in general I think the D will benefit from a second year under the same scheme, this should help with the concern I noted above, hopefully

Poyer will afford us better depth at safety and I think we may see all three on the field at the same time to give us a decent cover two and a flex safety ( Whitner) that can be walked up into the box... speed, speed speed

I am concerned about the lose of Skrine, but felt the CB's played OK last night, would like to see a little tighter coverage, but Haden was on the sidelines so that must be considered and Gilbert looked a hell of lot better than he did last year at this time... will he get better?... who knows.

Orchard should some signs but he looked a little slow to react to me, but that is a problem with a lot of rooks, see Sheard his first year and how he continually got caught too far up field because he could not react quickly enough... too much thinking, too little instinct... you hope the learning and experience fixes that.

So yes I think the D will be better

wasnt addressing you specifically.

and yet in the Scrimmage the offense was both passing and running all over the defense.... not to mention scoring....

Maybe the offense is better that that crap fest they rolled out for the scrimmage last year.... nah that cant be it... it has to be negative.... otay got it.

just made a common sense observation. no need to get your panties in a twist.

Why on earth cant you people move on from Hoyer?

Guess what???

HE'S GONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just like the guy in your sig.... lol

I think the run D looked better and I keep in mind that Haden was held out and Desir was injured.

As such, I don't take the success of the O as having as much impact as some posters do. Desir is currently ahead of Gilbert on the depth chart and Haden is by far our #1 CB. When you take those guys out of the passing D, our secondary isn't the force it would be under usual conditions.

The way the QB's locked onto their targets I believed would have been exploited more.

Now I'm not saying there weren't positives to be taken away from that practice, just that I try to keep things in perspective.

is there a place to watch some of these videos from a collection, or an entire recording of the later broadcast perhaps?

Marked improvement in Browns' scrimmage for Johnny Manziel

Pat McManamon, ESPN Staff Writer

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- As steps go, this one for Johnny Manziel seemed a little bigger than others.

Playing with and against backups, Manziel had himself a night in the Cleveland Browns' intrasquad scrimmage at The Horseshoe on Friday, throwing two touchdowns and unofficially completing nine of 11 passes for 93 yards in front of some 50,000 fans at Ohio State.

"I wouldn't make a huge deal about it, but it's progress for me," Manziel said. "It's better than I played last year in the scrimmage. A year later, there's a lot of progress. I'm happy about it and happy about stringing some good days together. That's what I wanted to do."

Owner Jimmy Haslam was impressed.

"I think he's starting to grow up, and he's starting to understand that you have to work hard and you got to get after it every day," he said. "Hopefully, he's learning to do that. He's got to prove that he'll do it over a period of time. But so far so good."

Manziel looked like a more confident player than a year ago. He dropped back, stood in the pocket and made throws. When he had to move he did, but most of his throws came from the pocket. His second touchdown, an 18-yard throw to Josh Lenz, came after Manziel scanned the right side of the field, then came back left to put the ball on Lenz's back shoulder for the score.

One year after not getting in the end zone at all in the team's scrimmage, Manziel made it twice.

"I think what jumps out is he's much less antsy in the pocket," coach Mike Pettine said. "He sets his feet, which is something that you really didn't see much last year. He's trusting his reads. I thought he placed the ball, I thought his location and accuracy were very good today."

It should be said that Josh McCown, No. 1 on the depth chart, threw a touchdown to Brian Hartline on his opening drive. While praising Manziel, veteran left tackle Joe Thomas also cautioned: "Josh (McCown) has done so many good things that to me it's not really a conversation about who should be the starter right now."

It's clear, though, that Manziel is gaining respect with his work and approach following a 10-week stay in a treatment center last winter.

"He had a long way to go to get back into the good graces with the team, but he's made all the right steps since he stepped back in (the team facility in) Berea back in April, and even before then," Thomas said. "He's really proved to a lot of people that this is important to him and he is ready to be an NFL starting quarterback. I think playing well in the scrimmage tonight and looking like an NFL quarterback is another good step in the direction that he wants to go."

Thomas said the team never doubted Manziel's ability.

"It was the other things that were getting in the way of him being able to be himself on the field," Thomas said. "You're starting to see the work that he put in off the field, not only with the rehab that he went through and the changes he's made in his personal life but the commitment that he's made in the meeting room. Studying film when he doesn't need to be. Doing the things that a starting quarterback has to do. I think you see that now that he's in competitive situation he's able to let that talent go and play well. And that's what you saw today."

Manziel's number would have been better had Lenz caught up to the first pass he threw, a deep ball that just missed connecting. Manziel's first touchdown came on a 4-yard pass to tight end E.J. Biggs, crossing right to left on the goal line.

"Feeling comfortable," Manziel said, "is a good thing."

Link

yea nothing wrong with perspective. thats why i cant understand why texaslostdawg got his panties in a twist from what i thought was a basic observation.