DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Manziel Continued

You are one of the worst offenders of taking opinion/speculation and turning them into fact.

How cute as Mac stands up to knock down rumors and conspiracy theories lol.

Whats worse is when someone does it in the face of the FACTS.

Just in case anyone wants to talk about Manziel in the Manziel thread. I watched the scrimmage clip on nfl.com.
It seemed almost all of JFs throws were on the money and leading the receiver. I think I only saw 3 that weren't and one of those was to a wide open receiver. Maybe a some throws were a little high on occasion but pretty encouraging. Oh and Hoyer wasnt there.

Yet McCown is most likely starting Week 1.

First, you post a link from Mary Kay...enough said. There has been several reports stating both sides. Both sides denied rumors and both said it was the other who was at fault.

Second, I never said Hoyer. I said Hoyer's agent leaked/stated. As a good agent should, he protected his client getting the best. Hoyer's group attempted to get full control based on Manziel's play. It was a good play by Hoyer's group.

Maybe you all should take some advise from the kids..

Let it go... Let it go.... Let it go... Let it go.....

I was in favor of bringing Hoyer back.

I also understand why they didn't.

He sucked no excuses and so did what he had to work with. No excuses for them either. I will take a guy that has shown he can play (Hoyer) over a guy that never has (McCown).

You wish me to ignore the FACTS and I can't sorry.....

I wish we would talk more about Brian Hoyer. I sure miss him.
Does anyone know what happened to him?
Who is Johnny Manziel? Didn't the OP mean Brian Hoyer Continued?

Whats a Johnny Manziel?

Mac, using your logic Elway was a fool for trading Tebow.

I can't speak for Mac but I would fall over myself to upgrade on any player and twice for a QB, but it has to be an upgrade as in not a downgrade (McCown).

That said Tebow was let go for Manning, your logic stinks. Hoyer was let walk for 1-10 McCown and you equate that to Tebow being let go for Manning...
'
If you want to have a logical discussion fine but hard to have that talk with you if that is your line of thought. Now McCown is Manning.....................

Manning was coming off of a serious neck injury, and they didn't have him when Tebow was let go.

We scored fewer points in 2014 (299) than we did in 2012 (302) or 2013 (308) when we started any combination of Weeden, Hoyer, and Campbell.

Why is Hoyer gone? That's a good place to start.

Why did we win games?

The defense allowed only 337 points in 2014, compared to 406 in 2013, and 368 in 2012.

We also created turnovers galore last year. Our defense grabbed 21 INT and forced 14 Fumbles.

Our defense won games for this team last year, for the most part. Hoyer did have 2 really great comebacks, and I am grateful for the near heart attacks ....

Seriously, though, he started out well, but it seemed like the league figured him out. Once that happened, he was done.

I seriously wonder if you understand the NFL game of football Y. Anyone that would spout the stat's you just did as evidence of why is so NFL football ignorant its beyond my ability to comprehend.

You DO NOT take risks with the football unless you have too, its called game management daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. If the other team is turning the ball over to you and there allowing your offense to operate in a conservative way (less risky) you take advantage of that. The idea that here we scored less and we gave up less points doesn't speak to you it sails right over you head. The concepts of NFL football are simple keep it close do what you have to too get to the 4th quarter with a chance to win then close the deal. Do you at ALL understand that simple concept or is it all about stats for you?

The style points your looking for are 4th quarter wins or come backs not points scored. wow wow wow

God all mighty how can someone spend their life on these boards and know so damned little? Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhshhhhhhhhhhh no wonder Vers gets so fed up with you, your football knowledge is none existent.

Sorry But FACTS are facts Y, I don't mean to come off so harsh but dude your not serious are you?

Which QB had the highest interception rate in the league?

Whoever that was, I wouldn't want them "managing my game."

IT WAS THE RECEIVERS! THEY RAN THE WRONG ROUTES!

His post was filled with facts.

You chose to ignore them because they don't fit your argument.

His post was full of a a lot of hot air and stupidity, and if you repeat it your at his level.

How can you all know so damned little about the game and how its played is beyond me....SMH

Now I know why I always have to dummy stuff down and even thats not working.....

getting sucked back in..... funny how a guy goes throgh ten games and throws 5 INTs and the gordon comes back and throw 5 INTs in seven quarters.

Hoyer had a stretch of what ... 9 games, where he threw 5 TD passes and 12 INT. Hoyer was effective early on, then collapsed. That's the absolute truth.

Further, we scored fewer points with Hoyer under Center, with a far better team, than we did with Brandon Weeden under Center in his rookie year. That really does say it all.

Further, Hoyer did not play a game management style of football. He was a downfield passer. Go look at his games, and look at all of his passes that were thrown in that 11-20 yard range. (in the air) Of those, he only completed 46% of them.

He threw a total of 438 passes. Out of that, he threw 265 passes on the "ball control" range of passes behind the LOS to 10 yards down the field. (60%)

Here's the problem with those shorter, ball control passes though. Hoyer, on passes thrown behind the LOS to 10 yards in the air, threw 5 TD passes and 5 INT. That is horrible. Russell Wilson, who threw in a similar type of offense, threw 10 TD and 1 INT in that "air" range. Hoyer also only completed 57% of his passes from 1-10 yards. That is also rather horrible.

Hoyer had no deep game at all, but he kept chucking passes that often had no business being thrown, or that hung up so badly that the receiver then had no chance to do anything with it once the ball finally returned to earth. In those chuck 'em down the field throws, (20+ yards in the air) Hoyer threw 3 TD and 5 INT. He had receivers running wide open, and could not connect.

I am quite sure that the coaches looked at all of that tape, with receivers running 5+ yards off of their coverage, and .... nothing. Even in the 11-20 yard range, we often had receivers running wide open that were missed or ignored.

That is most likely a huge part of the reason Hoyer is not here.

Our offense was based on ball control, but designed to get guys running wide open so we could create big plays in the passing game. Hoyer did that, occasionally. Unfortunately, he also mossed a ton of opportunities.

There is a reason why Hoyer is gone, and why even QB needy teams really didn't try all that hard to go get him.

The stats reflect what happened on the field. Hoyer let too many opportunities fall by the wayside, and he ended the season with a 9 game stretch with 5 TD and 12 INT. At least McCown had the excuse of not having an OC last year, since his was lost for the year do to illness, and he as stuck with a QB coach who had never coached in the NFL before stuck creating gameplans and calling plays.

In other news, damn didnt Manziel look great on Friday!!

This is all I find myself reading on a Johnny Manziel thread:

Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer
Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer
Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer
Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer

no worry. in a month or so all you will be reading is FLIPPER, FLIPPER, FLIPPER.

I will be shocked if a month from now we arent preparing Johnny to start the season. Pet is trying to avoid the media wave and the pressure on Manziel and this team but if he plays like he has this past week, its on.

I hope you are right, because having to start McCown will be just plain suicide.

j/c:

I have been trying to follow my own advice and simply not respond to the lunacy that this thread has become, but unfortunately, I have succumbed to the ignorance of the extremes.

Man! Both sides are so whacked. You make it so black-and-white.

Hoyer's gone and he isn't coming back. He was below average last year. His deep passes were not very good. He started throwing off of his back foot later in the year. It led to some poor passes. He look harried at times. He was good at the beginning of the year, but bad later in the year. He's gone. Not coming back. It's time to let it go.

On the other side, you guys are so hateful. Sheesh! You completely dismiss wins and losses. Then, you got guys making things up about his accuracy. Have any of you considered that Hoyer getting rid of the ball quickly and hitting receivers in stride helped us? Did you forget about those plays or are you just remembering the poor deep passes? You guys are actually worse than the other side in regards to making things up and being hateful. Shame on you!

Just once, I wish people could argue logically and look at both sides. We got guys throwing out stats while refusing to recognize the most important stat, which is wins and losses. It is my opinion that you guys actually make your arguments weaker when you ONLY argue one side. Why can't you acknowledge both the good and the bad? There was obviously a lot of both, but no, you guys only argue one side and it's terrible reading.

Phew...........okay, got that off my chest. You can go back to your nonsensical arguments now.

So I log in and see a bunch of new post thinking good some news.... NOPE, just a troll fight.

Sigh I guess not

At this point steady improvement is all you can hope for, whatever happens I give the young man credit for his change for the better.

He had some really fantatic throws. the back shoulder to Lenz was pinpoint accuracy. The pass that lenz goofed on was tremendously accurate. Feet wasnt bouncing doing the jitterbug in the backfield. Kept his toes downfield and even when he moved he wasnt looking for the big run but loking for the receiver. What we saw on Friday was more than even I expected and thats from one of his biggest supporters lol. I saw him work the pocket and thats something I didnt expect to see for another 3 years down the road.

It could be TRich who you said was a must if the Browns were ever going to be a winner!!!

Game Manager

(I know math is hard for some to understand.)

+1, nice write...What I didn't get drafting Manziel was Farmer stating he liked fast thinker, accurate throwers, etc....JF wasn't that in college, ran/made plays and threw it up to Evans...JF complete disaster last year, BUT so far grown up bunch, learning pro dropback and pocket sense...PLUS Thomas says he could be starter...duh!! I trust that recommendation...time will tell, but THIS YEAR nearly all positives....GO Browns!!!

Johnny is growing up, it takes a lot of courage to admit his weaknesses. I want to see him do good in a Browns uniform, and I think he could be great, we will see! GO BROWNS!