DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Hiroshima: 70 yrs. ago

who perceives us as weak other than you and the party you're in?

certainly not the world.

certainly not myself.

if anything, we've become schoolyard bullies. there was a line between being strong and being a bully, and we crossed that line a while ago.

we got this problem with the U.S and Russia beating our chest over military stuff, while the rest of the planet looks at us like a bunch of steroid ass jocks.

we're only #1 in the world at two things: military and the amount of people we imprison.

awesome accolades.

Rand Paul was not wrong in making the statement he backed away from Thursday night. Every time we've gone into the middle east, we've given rise to something worse than what was there prior.

We armed and trained an Afghan rebel army to fright the Russians and left them high and dry when the job was done. Many of these were the men that we fought a decade later after going into Kuwait, giving rise to al-qaeda. We went back in after 9/11 and took out the only government in the region that was not a theocracy; a regime that, for better or worse, kept Iran in check. This, of course, gave rise to ISIS.

The truth is that we have two options in the Middle East. 1) we put boots on the ground with the understanding that we will fight a never ending war in the Middle East. 2) we use intelligence and black ops to take these people out where we can but leave the region to work itself out. Unless we give them a common enemy, ISIS will eventually become enough of a thorn in the side of Iran, that they will have to deal with it themselves.

And i'm tired of hearing the "we can bomb their facilities".

y'all talk as if they're just gonna LET us bomb them with no consequences. like "hey, we're gonna bomb you guys. no hard feelings, k?"

if we bomb them, it's WAR. get that through your head 40.

well, technically, there is this thing called STEALTH where we could get in and bomb them without them knowing it was us (not to mention cruise missiles and drones).

We could also just give some gear to Israel and have them do it for us. WE don't have to do it.

........no.

everybody and their mama would know it was us who did it.

let's be real here.

and if we give gear to israel to do it, it's still us doing it, just indirectly.

nobody's is gonna fall for that one man. especially since we don't exactly have a track record of being honest with people as well, even though we seem to wanna claim moral high ground on matters.

The Russians and Putin laugh at the US today. They continue to push for Empire. We wouldn't even send defensive weapons to Ukraine.

The Chinese laugh as they expand into the South China Sea, building islands and claiming them as their own. Japan wonders if America will be there for them as China pushes on.

ISIS continues to drive around it million dollar Humvee's as we continue to arm them through Iraq.

Israel and Saudi Arabia are left on their own to deal with Iranian insurgents and ISIS terrorism. The Saudi's and Egypt wanted to send arms to the Kurds to help them in their successes against ISIS but the US nixed it.

Now the US has worked a deal with Turkey to use their bases for our bombing raids on ISIS in Syria. Turkey turned around and launched bombing raids on the Kurds who they hate, threatening the lives of American Soldiers who were there training Kurds and Iraqi's on how to fight ISIS.

Mexico and the rest of South America laugh at the US as they pour their criminals across America's Borders at will.

I grow fatigued.

oh so you mean the people that's always hated us, still hate us?

in other news, the sky is blue.

Horse hockey! Reagan bombed Libya and it wasn't war.
We bomb ISIS and it isn't war.
Clinton bombed Eastern Europe and it wasn't war.

There was no need for boots on the ground in these and other
incidents. You have just gotten used to Zero Leadership in this Country.

Yep! We saw the rudderless ship a long time ago. When you begin wars with no end game, no exit strategy and some misguided and uneducated ideology about that part of the world, that most certainly is zero leadership.

You handle these issues while they are small so you don't have to go to War!

You prop up your allies so they are strong in their own sphere of influence. You give them the trust that the US will be there if needed!

You make your enemies first consideration to be "If we do this, what will the Americans do to us?"

The world has realized after 7 years of testing us that our Commander in Chief is unfit for duty. That is what encourages them to be bold.

Hence, the 'vigilance' part.

I dunno... I'm one of those Americans who isn't as scared of them... and no, my eyes are wide open. I know exactly who and what they are.


Like I said: vigilance. Can't do that with eyes closed.


.02


Wait.... what's this I see?



Your own words... pretty much saying the same thing as those you oppose in this discussion. So- it's was good policy back then, and bad policy now? Hmmm I wonder what the difference could be.

I also like this quote, from even earlier:
"Trust- but verify."

Who on earth could have dropped that wisdom way back when? Some actor, or politician, perhaps?

I laugh the laugh of the damned at vigilance!

We vigilantly watched as North Korea fooled us.
We vigilantly watched as Russia took Crimea.
We vigilantly watched Germany after WWI to make sure they
followed the rules. They were only allowed 100,000 soldiers
for their entire Military. They could build no ships of war.
They could build no tanks.

Well we vigilantly fought them in WWII as they trained those
100,000 soldiers to be officers. All they needed to do was quickly train troops once they had officers!

We vigilantly watched them build the Volkswagen, the Peoples car. Where the people ordered their car, paying in advance and Hitler built tanks instead!

We vigilantly watched as Hitler built a Presidential Yacht for diplomatic use and later unveiled the Bismark, largest Battleship on the planet!

Watch and be Vigilant all you want as the Bad guys laugh at our weakness and do as they please.

We will fight them sooner or later. How many American lives it will cost us depends on how wide your eyes are actually opened.

So you would rather sacrifice 15 or 20 thousand American lives today because the other option is that we MIGHT have to fight them later and it MIGHT be worse?

Sounds like the same pre-emptive strategy that helped create this quagmire.

And Iran is a significantly stronger foe right now than Iraq or Afghanistan.. 15-20,000 lives might be way too low.

Not to mention, I'm pretty sure we would have trouble convincing anybody to join our pre-emptive attack on Iran... so we would be going it alone.

I believe a lot of the reason Iraq was actually targeted by the U.S. was far more of a strategical nature than one of necessity. A weak target to give us a stronger and better presence in the region.

The war had to be packaged and sold to the American people in a more palatable way. But in the end, I feel strategy in the region was the prime motivator.

fear fear fear.

lets be scared of everything, everyone, at all times.


it's getting sickening the about of war mongering and fear mongering we do as a nation.

If that is what you understood from what I said they hold reading comprehension classes at the Community College.

Again, try reading my posts before you screw them up.

Protecting our homeland and our allies has nothing to do with fear.
Fear is when you are willing to accept a bad deal with a known enemy out of fear of standing strong.

That's fear talking again.

You've been conditioned to think everything requires a military solution.

That's ok though.

It is ok for you to be weak and afraid for I am tolerant.

After 7 years of poor leadership it is understandable.

Oh yeah, I forgot when Russia attacked the US. What year ago was that?

Is everybody drunk tonight or what?

You mean when Reagan economically broke them to win the Cold War? RATHER than give an UNTRUSTWORTHY enemy exponential amounts of money?

Reagan didn't really seem to have a problem with funding untrustworthy enemies.

the situations aren't even comparable.

we had tough economy sanction on Iran.

yet they were still producing the material needed to make a nuclear bomb.

adding more sanctions would've did what? exactly, nothing.

the only option other than a deal is War.

dunno bout you, but i've had my fair share of deployments. i don't want this country going through another 10 year war in the middle east.

and for what? it's so hypocritical. once again i'm saying this statement, and watch everybody ignore it:

y'all complaining about Iran and terrorism, yet we are currently in bed with Saudi's, who ALSO have sponsored terrorism and has been directly link to US forces deaths.

but nobody says anything about that. nobody talks about bombing them though.

hide under your beds!! Iran, 3000 miles away and surrounded by US Bases and NATO forces, is coming for your freedom somehow!!! get those bunkers ready!!!

That's a great picture! We're any of those individuals or their fellow countrymen shouting 'death to America' before, during and even after he dealt with them?

...and besides, the two guys center right look a bit like Father Guido Sarducci and Gabe Kaplan!

you realize people have been shouting death to america....forever, right?

There's german people who hate our guts.

should we not buy BMW's, Volkswagens, Audi's, and Benz's from them anymore?

The Iranians certainly were.

Really? Even during the whole Ollie North thing?

Yes, we make some very nice high end vehicles here.

....where?

Detroit.

Yes. I believe a few helped organize a few American deaths

But if Reagan did it then criticism and reality go out of the window and we're left with a fairy tale.

....

where?

Certainly. The specific term "death to America" is traced back to Iran circa 1979.

So who exactly are the people in this picture? Are they from Afghanistan? It' d be one thing if they were Iranians. Refresh my memory, who were we propping up during the Iran/Iraq war?