DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Presidential Hopefuls (part2)

Here's another free one Ytown...

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- Douglas Adams

Come to the Dark Side!

I agree.. but we can't ignore them, they have effectively painted us as the reason for all of their evils... regardless of how true that is.. if we turn our backs on them, it could be a bad idea.


Why?

You have Turkey to thank for that one.

because unlike Israel, they actually assist us in the iraq war. i mean they got down with us forreal bro.

i'm all for helping out allies that actually ride or die for us, not just milk the cash cow.

You're right. We should just fund more factions there. So later they can come back and become our enemy. Just like Bin Laden. We never seem to learn from our mistakes and instead just keep repeating them. We've deposed rulers and set up new regimes. We've funded and fought wars. In the end it always ends up worse than before. Yet people advocate a continuation of those same failed policies.

At the current time, we are using drones to strike strategic targets. Finally someone understands that it's the terrorists we are fighting and not governments or nations. Yet I keep hearing we don't get it now and should return to failed policies.

I'm not for funding any faction in the middle east. History has proven all that will accomplish is giving power to people, who in the end will become our enemy.

Ridiculous!
If Israel had entered the Iraq war, the Arab coalition would have ended as they hated Israel more than Saddam. The US told them to stay out of it so they did.

Wouldn't think a Middle East expert would even suggest such a thing.

poor defenselee israel.

you're right, the arab world just saw us destroy two countries after they destroyed two buildings.

they would've TOTALLY attacked israel at the peak of our revenge stage. /sarcasm

Giving intelligence to groups who ISIS is their enemy as well as ours is not funding anything.

It's a collaborative effort. I'm not saying ship millions of arms, ammo and aircraft to these people like we did with others, but we could at least provide intelligence to them and such. Especially when there are mutual goals, such as the elimination of ISIS.

Intel? I remember the Intel on Iraq.

The problem is, some of those who are against Isis are also against each other. At some point you would have to pick a side on who you share it with and who you don't. Once you do that, you create even more enemies.

As it stands you have several factions fighting Isis as well as each other. Why would you wish to mess with a perfect scenario?

Ha! I know that I have proved that one true!

I actually would like to see a solution for the Kurds worked out ..... but Iraq and Turkey both would fight us tooth and nail on that one.

Bernie Sanders has just replaced Hillary as number one in New Hampshire.

The battle rages.

iraq has nothing to offer at the negotiation table.

This did NOT answer my question.

They wanted no part of the Kurds getting their own country when Saddam was booted ....and while part of that was because the Kurds control some oil producing areas, it also seems to be just a great deal of dislike towards the Kurds.

Pretty sure that's what we said when we established Israel as a nation. We need to stop picking losers and winners on that side of the World. We can do it in South America, where we can keep an eye on it (Can =/= should), but the Middle East is way too tumultuous for this type of shoddy politics.

40 is trying to earn money to buy my jersey!

Jerseys are expensive and I wouldn't want a working man to have to purchase me one.

Ben Carson just did an interview on FOX and I came away really liking the guy. So smart, so in control of himself even with the tough questions.
Impressive.

That's a different type of intelligence. With our drones, inside spies/cooperators, technological advances, cyber warfare advances and various and endless other means - we could provide them key targets, locations and other type of intel. What is the harm in that? Where is the risk of that coming back to hurt us? Why can't Obama do it? The intel you referred to, that ever since New York Times published that article in 2014, is seemingly still up for debate and still unknown about the WMD ordeal but nevertheless, a different type of intel and for different reasons...

As for the second snippet, and in addition to the above about giving them the intel - we'd wipe away the most immediate threat to us and in a more timely fashion and then let them get back to destroying each other as we build and wait for the next ISIS group to form and then the process is repeated.

However I wanted to go out and say Pit that I respect the things you're saying. Most I agree with (especially the funding the part only to come back and wage war against us at a later time) but the whole middle east is a difficult thing for any president.

The middle east hurtful to the United States in more ways than one. The world as a whole would be better if it was nuked and then every foreign linked terrorist proxy linked to the crater that would become of the middle east be sought after and totally wiped away. Unfortunately, that can't and won't happen because not everyone is a terrorist there, just like 90% of them lol!

they may not have immediately attacked Israel but they might not have helped us.

But because the Kurds jumped in to help us fight a common enemy, you think they deserve to have their own country.. where should that country be? Should we take land from Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey to form this nation? What claim do they have to any land by which to form a nation?

If I had my way nothing but corpses and ruble would have been left in those two countries just like those two buildings. America got sucker punched, attacked, or whatever you want to call it. All in the name of Muslim extremist politics... As far as I'm concerned we should have drug a big tarp over the entire middle east and fumigated. They ALL tolerate and harbor the Muslim extremist that would see each of us dead if they had the chance.

I know this is way off my usual political view game but that is one subject that I am very much still Republican about. I hate the wars now, but not the revenge.

They don't all tolerate and harbor the Muslim extremists. They've been taken hostage by them. You cannot tolerate and harbor someone if they're holding a gun against your head. We've heard all kind of stories of small civil resistances throughout the land, but they don't have the equipment to fight off their torturers. Are some complicit? Probably. However, the majority isn't, but they don't know how to fight. But you can't blame a bunch of poor, rural, people to take on a nation without guns, training or education.

sure, why not?

i mean seems like nobody had a problem telling palestine to move over while we gift wrapped israel back to the jews.

so why can't we for the kurds? i'm sure if the price was right, minus syria, turkey and iraq would listen.

I do agree with you that the middle east is a very slippery slope. I will say that we keep getting mixed messages though. I mean, who is it that is the most immediate threat to the U.S.?

I hear that it's Iran acquiring nuclear weapons. I hear that it's ISIS. Yet neither of the enemies have capability to launch a long range attack against the U.S.

ISIS is an ideology and not a nation. You just need look at the Taliban. You can look at Boko Harem, HAMAS, Hizballah, al-Qa’ida and the list goes on.

There's a boogey man at every corner. As it stands, we will simply move from one boogey man to the other with no real end in sight.

The price hasn't even been right for Israel. Are you still suggesting we pick and choose in the Middle East? That is not democracy, that is dictatorship.

everybody supported it with israel. they treat them like they're americans.

why not the kurds?

But that's exactly what we've done for the last 10 years in Iraq.. equipped, funded, and trained them on how to fight... and when it comes time to do it on their own, they give up and run away.

The Kurds so far have been the only ones in that region who have been willing to put up a fight.

You are right I can't blame them all. I don't have a good answer or solution. All I know is that the enemy, the last enemy to attack us and still threatens to attack us in our homes, work and at play... they live, breed and grow among them more than anywhere else.

History tells us that giving Israel to the Jews was not a big problem since the Arab Nations supported the Nazi's during WWII.

Israel is one of the biggest reasons violence has been so widespread. Yes, our allies support us, but that doesn't mean people support us.

i hate all the suck up people do for israel.

i mean they have an all exclusive term nobody else has if you're criticizing israel:

antisemitic.

I wish the GOP would talk about taking care of Americans like they do taking care of Israel and the middle east.

Hardly. We've been training their troops and we still do not believe their troops are able to fight. And why would they? They don't have any of the resources that Americans do. They do not have the firepower that the US commands, nor should they. Every war has winning and losing battles, but don't equate them losing to not trying.

Oh I've heard plenty of Republicans and Democrats talk of
how we could take care of the Middle East.

Only in America do we care about Israel so much. The fact that Palestine is now an observer state in the UN should be enough evidence of that.

When ISIS rolled in to town late last year the reports were that U.S. trained Iraqi military abandoned their posts, and left tons of U.S. military equipment behind: rifles, vehicles, tanks, etc.

How is that not equate to "not trying"?

If you add Kasich as the 4th person on that list then we could agree 100 percent