DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Gilber CB Break Out Season?

damn.. not looking too good for JG... will he be the next McFadden?

Put him on the PS if you are still curious. He is a liability now. Who can do better?

Shelton, maybe?

Ok folks, lets remember yesterday's bad day for Gilbert was nothing but a freaking practice lol. Lets see how he bounces back today.

I didn't see the game but did listen to it on the radio. And, after reading practice reports, I'm wondering the same thing you are.

He's not getting cut.

It's not just the practice yesterday Mour, it's also the mistakes from the washington Preseason game.

I mean, he just doesn't appear to have his head in the game

I don't think anyone questions the physical abilities, but damn, something is wrong between the ears.

I doubt he gets cut this year, but he won't be long for this league if he keeps this up.

Related:

'Signing of Tramon Williams is growing in significance for Cleveland Browns: Tom Reed'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._social_feature

By Tom Reed, Northeast Ohio Media Group on August 17, 2015 at 7:58 PM, updated August 18, 2015 at 6:44 AM

PITTSFORD, N.Y. – On the hottest practice day of training camp, with many key defensive backs nursing injuries, the second oldest member of the Browns' secondary performed with the gusto of a terrier tracking Frisbees.

Tramon Williams broke up three passes in 11-on-11 sessions, got into the grills of Bills' receivers in press coverage and beat just about everything except the 90-degree heat Monday.

"Just going out there and competing, man," Williams said after a joint practice with the Bills in suburban Rochester. "Anytime you get a chance to go against a different team, (it) should light a little fire under you."

The 32-year-old distinguished himself on a toasty morning when the rest of the Browns' depleted secondary struggled against Buffalo receivers. Joe Haden, Tashaun Gipson, K'Waun Williams and Pierre Desir were out. Justin Gilbert was there in body, but his mind continues to get the best of him in the early weeks of preseason.

With each passing day, the decision to sign the durable Williams, a nine-year veteran, appears more prescient. He will start opposite Haden and not force the Browns to play Gilbert until he's ready -- if that day ever comes.

Awarding a cornerback his age a three-year deal worth $21 million ($10 million guaranteed) is eye opening, but his experience, Super Bowl pedigree and knowledge of the position is benefiting the club. Even a Pro Bowler like Haden say he's learning from Williams, a full-time starter for the Packers the past five seasons.

Coach Mike Pettine believes his fitness and intellect allow him to play at a high level when many corners on the other side of 30 are in steep decline. The only Browns' defensive back older than Williams is journeyman Aaron Ross, 32, who joined the Browns on Sunday to combat the spate of camp injuries.

"Just to hear (Williams') conversations with (secondary coach Jeff Hafley and defensive coordinator Jim O'Neil) and the other DBs it is detailed, high-level stuff about routes and wide-outs and things that he sees," Pettine said. "To me, that's so good for our young guys."

Williams also knows what it means to fail at a position as mentally challenging as any other than quarterback. He didn't become a regular starter until his fourth season with the Packers. Seven months ago, he was on the wrong side of a postseason highlight that will be replayed as long as the NFL Network is broadcasting.

Just minutes from a Super Bowl berth, the Packers blew a 12-point lead to the Seahawks in the NFL Championship Game, losing 28-22 in overtime. The epic playoff ended with Williams getting beat by Jermaine Kearse on a 35-yard touchdown. His coverage was good. Russell Wilson's pass was better.

Williams not only has watched the replay ("I like to face my demons face-to-face") but turned the gutting experience into a teaching tool for young teammates.

"I use that example to some of the guys who feel down some time -- I'm like, 'man, c'mon,'" said Williams, who's at ease discussing the most painful moment of his career. "It's one of those things where I've been experiencing this game a long time and one of my strong points is to let that play go. Obviously, if I had another play I would have been a lot happier."

The affable defensive back has shown a willingness to help teammates on both sides of the ball. He's gone out early to practice with Terrelle Pryor so the converted receiver could work on getting off press coverage. He also sends a great message to youngsters with his work rate on days like Monday when so many on both teams looked sluggish in the heat.

Pettine labels Williams "the ultimate professional." The title will be tested along with his legs and fast-twitch muscles. He figures to draw plenty of fire just as Buster Skrine did working opposite Haden. The former Browns corner parlayed a strong season a year ago into a hefty pay raise with the Jets.

Williams, meanwhile, is coming off a statistically trying campaign. He surrendered 10 TDs (including playoffs), according to ProFootballFocus.com, and quarterbacks enjoyed a 106.5 passer rating when throwing his way. That sum had never been higher than 85.0.

Do those numbers suggest Williams' speed and quickness are eroding or he just had a tough season?

Chances are the Browns will groom his replacement before his contract expires in 2017. But given his savvy and the strength of the team's secondary, Williams should be a good fit for this season.

Imagine if the club had not acquired a veteran corner in free agency and needed to roll with either Gilbert or the improving but still raw Desir next month. Maybe Gilbert, the No. 8 overall pick a year ago, begins to figure it out. Maybe Williams is the one who helps him do it.

Right now, though, they need No. 22 more as a player than a mentor. Williams could prove to be the Browns' most significant signing of the offseason.



(end)

I would be surprised if he got cut, I agree. But I wouldn't be totally shocked if he did get cut.

Daman,

skins game, first one to Pierre was miscommunication between he and the safety. It happens. The negative play was the one in which he failed to make the tackle along the sideline. He wasnt flawless but it was a decent showing.

Its easy to pile on the guy right now cause of his stupid flawless comments and his struggles last year but I have seen some really good corners struggle early in their career. Buster probably still has nightmares about the dozen pass plays he gave up in the opener against Hartline a couple years ago.

Moral of the story. Its still a wait and see.

I speculated in May that he could be released, then I saw this. $10.5 million in dead money to drop him. That would be surprising.

So now, when we complain about the team trying to hold out for offset language in a first round pick's contract, we can point to this.

I get what you are saying Mour,,, And I'm certainly not calling for him to be cut. What I'm saying is, he's not impressing me at all. But yeah, it's still early. Let's see what happens.

I always fall back on Troy Palomulo and how bad he was his first year. Then it was like a light went on and BOOM... So things can get better for him. Hope they do.

He's almost lower on our depth chart than the position he was drafted LOL

I think this should be kept in the back of everyone's minds as they watch this kid. There is only one learning curve steeper than DB.. and we all know what position that is.

I think we Browns fans got a little spoiled watching Joe Haden's arc, and want to see the same from JG. I'm as disappointed as anyone else at what we've seen so far, but I still don't see any reason to jettison him now- or even at the end of this season.

If we have enough resources on the field to afford to bring this kid along at a Buster Skrine pace, we could still end up with a very good corner opposite Haden.

.02

I agree with your point about Haden's arc Clem ... we were spoiled in that he could produce and be effective right away.

But I'd also say that Gilbert's career arc looks very similar to CB busts of the past decade (see Morris Claiborne). IMO Gilbert has shown next to nothing as a cover guy. Teams have consistently attacked him and he doesn't have any instincts/toughness/intelligence from what I've witnessed/read

Maybe his role is return man, special teamer, and Dime back

Lets remember that wasn't his only bad practice and performance, too.

He's 5th on the depth chart for a reason.

He could be if some others really step up, but I doubt they will give up after a season and a camp.

We'll know the fortunes have turned and we start seeing the guy featured as a kick returner this season. If he gets that shot and doesn't shine, I'd say next camp is his cut date. Putting aside his draft position and investment made, he is probably better than the last guy on the team.

But yep, the guy is a real head scratcher. He was the top corner prospect as he came out and those guys are usually pretty easy to evaluate compared to some of the other positions. It's not like we reached for some guy with a 5th round tag and snatched him in the top 10. Had we not selected him someone would have shortly. I doubt he would have dropped another 5 picks, let alone rounds.


Go figure?

Agreed, and that is way we traded up from #9 to #8...

We traded UP for him and Manziel????

Gee, what brilliant moves those were.

Ok.....but none the less, my point still stands. No?

I was agreeing with you...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...partner=ya5nbcs


Justin Gilbert injured early in final Browns-Bills practice

Posted by Zac Jackson on August 18, 2015, 7:12 PM EDT


Second-year Browns cornerback Justin Gilbert had quite a day Monday when the Browns and Bills held a joint practice in Rochester.

Tuesday, he had a much shorter day. Gilbert left early in the teams’ final joint practice session after going down and needing an assist from team trainers to get up and head to the sideline.

Trainers placed ice and a protective wrap on Gilbert’s right quad, and he watched the rest of practice from the sideline. After practice Browns coach Mike Pettine told reporters Gilbert suffered a hip flexor.

The Browns were hoping Gilbert, the No. 8 pick in the 2014 draft, would bounce back from a lost rookie season, but he’s struggled in camp and in last week’s preseason opener. The Browns spent $7 million for this season to bring in veteran cornerback Tramon Williams in case Gilbert didn’t catch on quickly, and though it’s early, that looks like a sound decision.

If his injury lingers, the Browns will likely be really short on cornerbacks Thursday when the Browns and Bills play a preseason game in Cleveland. Joe Haden and Pierre Desir, a 2014 fourth-rounder, sat out both practices with the Bills, and second-year nickelback K’Waun Williams also sat out Tuesday.

I can't argue with that. There ARE some similarities.



Agree there, too. What I have seen are individual plays that give me a glimpse of why teams may have rated him for rnds 1-2 of his draft class. But daaaaaang, they are few and far between...



He does play like the game's still too 'smart' or 'fast' for him. I'm hoping that his is a case of "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger"... and that all this heat early in his career tempers him out like a piece of steel. Right now, he just looks like wood- getting torched.




Maybe. That would make him a ridiculously overdrafted 'team body,' for sure. But hey- if that's where he can make a contribution instead of being a walking liability, so be it. Fans can call him a draft bust all they like (and I wouldn't disagree with them), but at least the Browns will have found a role in which he does more good than harm.

I'm still hoping he puts it all together... just because he's one of ours. If he can't- and it becomes obvious by the end of this year- I'd accept his role as you described.... and start paying attention to Ifo Ekpre-Olomu when he returns to the field next year.

I'm sure he's feeling the heat from the Browns, too. They brought in vet Williams (who is impressing early), and took a chance on another promising rookie DB in the draft. Even if he's dumber than a bag of hammers, he's gotta see the writing on the wall: "It's the NFL, son... tick, tock."

A perplexing (and frustrating) case, to be sure.

I guess we'll just have to stay tuned, you know?

Sometimes the most important stat for a player is the wonderlic.

It is not the ceiling to pay attention to, it is the floor.

Someone brought up that the game does not seem all that important to Gilbert, at least when he speaks about his goals, and putting in work.

I have to agree, but with a caveat. Gilbert did work out with Haden in the off-season. I don't now if he also worked with him on tape and such or not, but let's assume not. Regardless, working with Haden shows at least some level of commitment and desire to improve.

Gilbert has made some comments that we take as bad, but maybe he is just being honest. He says that he would rather sleep in that study tape. I bet that a lot of guys feel that way. They push through and study tape anyway, but their preference might be to do anything else, if they really could. Perhaps this is what Gilbert meant, but he phrased it poorly.

Perhaps Gilbert is one of those kids who just gets flustered when he is being interviewed, and when asked questions, and kind of pulls back into himself. He has no idea what to say to questions, so he inevitably says the wrong thing.

Also, many times a guy knows he is struggling, but he tries to deny it to himself, hoping that will help.

Reports from camp are that he has worked hard. He beat his fist into the ground when he felt the hip flexor injury. He sees other guys passing him up, and he knows that he should be doing better, but the more pressure he puts on himself, the worse he plays. He got a shot to redeem himself with all of the injuries,and he messed up on a couple of plays. (in the 1st preseason game) Then he made the unfortunate "flawless" comment.

A part of me hopes that he gets to return kicks, and does well there. He really seems to need something to lift his confidence, and hold it in a range where he feels that he belongs in the NFL. Right now I feel like he is really struggling, and is struggling with his confidence more than anything. Hopefully the team can help him get straightened out so he can be a useful player.

I will not say that it can't happen, because I have seen a huge amount of progress from Manziel this preseason, and most worried that he might implode this year the 1st time any pressure was applied. Manziel gives me hope that Gilbert can get going too. I sure hope so. It does seem like Pettine is a somewhat patient coach. He plays the players he believes are best, but he will hang onto a player who is having problems, to try and get them turned around. I think that he has taken the perfect tact with Manziel, letting him get turned around, trusting him only as he has earned trust, and being willing to let him sit and learn, and develop, maybe for this entire season. Hopefully we'll get a huge payoff for that patience next year.

I do think that the 2 players do show a great deal of insight into how Pettine approaches certain troubled players.

Yep. I agree ... at this point the ball is kind of in his court. Our staff has been patient, yet fair. He'll have his chances here.

Yes we do..according to this source CBs


2014 Cornerback Wonderlic Scores

Justin Gilbert (Oklahoma State) - 14
Kyle Fuller (Virgina Tech) - 11
Bradley Roby (Ohio State) - 25
Jason Verrett (Texas Christian) - 17
Stanley Jean-Baptiste (Nebraska) - 12
Ross Cockrell (Duke) - 27
Aaron Colvin (Oklahoma) - 25

Someone with knowledge please explain to me...

What are all the ramifications (dead money, etc) if we were to cut him?

Can't we cut him due to his injury and provide some type of injury settlement? Like we did with Jason Pinkston and Nick McDonald?

Doesn't matter.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/20...mart-to-succeed

no, $10.5 million dead money. $6.67 million this year and $3.83 million next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/justin-gilbert/

No, difference is Gilbert's money is fully guaranteed.

There's really zero chance that Gilbert would be cut, even though there may be players we ultimately cut who are better. As many stated above:

1.) His contract is fully guaranteed and we'd have to eat all of the remaining money (although we have plenty of cap space to do so).

2.) That was Ray Farmer and Mike Pettine's first pick together, and rumor has it that Pettine had a lot of influence on the Gilbert selection.

3.) Since he's under controllable years, they'll try to stuff him in the back of the depth chart and hope the light bulb comes on in the meantime.

Most concerning with Gilbert, as others have stated, is his perceived lack of work ethic. That's a huge problem for a guy who totally wasted the previous year and has a great opportunity through injuries to rise up on the depth chart. He's not taking advantage, his technique has actually gotten worse, and we're stuck worrying about if he'll actually get any real time this year.