DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Camp Stuff 2015 (cont'd)

Interesting. Perhaps the only way he makes this team is by being the 3rd (or, as someone said), the emergency QB...

To be honest, I'd take Pryor over shaw or Lewis any day

The feasibility of Pryor as your 3rd QB makes him a lot more likely to make the team, since you'd only need to carry 2 QBs on the active roster. I could easily see Pryor in a "slash" (WR / QB) role for us. The bonus would be his spot on the roster could then be justified, and it would give him some leeway and time to develope his WR skills.

nahhh we're gonna cut pryor, his buddy antonio brown is going to convince the steelers to pick him up and develop him, and he is going to destroy us consistently for the next decade.

calling it now.

"Coach Mike Pettine was unavailable for comment pending treatment for uncontrolled laughter. Undisclosed sources report him reportedly shouting "This one's going to kill them. Let's put Johnny's arm in a sling, too!" minutes before the team took the field."

He can't go on PUP. PUP is only for players that were injured away from the team or from the previous season.

Don't forget though that we can put 1 player on the IR/Designated to Return though which is different than the PUP.

I would be very disappointed if we used that on a player like Pryor or Mayle.

I see zip in Mayle so far and I have NO CLUE as to what Pryor can do .. I mean who has seen Pryor play as a wide out in a real game ?

Browns OC John DeFilippo press conference

- August 24 Posted 5 minutes ago

Link

The first-year offensive coordinator talks with reporters before Monday's practice


Opening statement:

“Good to see everybody this morning, appreciate you coming out. I think offensively we’ve made a lot of strides in training camp. I think you’re seeing a lot more explosive pass gains. Be good to get (WR) Dwayne Bowe back, (RB) Duke Johnson back. They’re a major piece in what we want to do. It’s been disappointing they’ve been out for so long. I wanted to establish a run against Buffalo and wanted to test our guys against one of the top fronts in football and see how that goes. I challenged our players the night before the game that ‘ Hey, this is what we’re going to do’ There’s probably a few situations where we got to second and long and I probably would have thrown it in the regular season, but that’s what preseason football is for. I’ve been pleased in the scrimmage and in the first game with our first team offense. Obviously, against the Bills, that stuff happens. Josh tried to squeeze a ball into a tight area. I thought that the DB got there early which would have been our ball still but the call didn’t go our way, they got the ball back. The one we have to avoid is the second one. Those are the ones we have to avoid, the forced errors. There’s going to be times where the ball goes off a receiver’s hands when you’re trying to make a play on third down and the ball is going to get intercepted. I tell those guys: if you’re afraid to push the ball down the field, play another position… play another position. When you’re trying to get explosive pass gains you’re going to put the ball in harm’s way at times, that’s the nature of football. I’m never going to take the aggressiveness away from our quarterbacks but at the same time we have to be much, much smarter with the second pass that (QB) Josh (McCown) threw. Proud with the way our players have handled the change. I think that you see we are playing better. I think you’ve seen us- obviously I’ve been told since I’ve been here, last year they won the jerseys one time and we’ve won the jerseys a bunch of times and that’s what this things about, its competition. Pleased with the way our guys have competed and with that I’ll open it up.”

On what he feels a sense of urgency to get accomplished in the next week:

“The first thing I’m really excited about is we actually get to game plan for an opponent. That’s going to be a dry run for us as a staff. I’m a new coordinator, we have some guys that are here that have never game planned in the NFL before. The cohesiveness of the staff I’m really excited about. Number two I’m really excited to see what Dwayne Bowe and Duke Johnson can do on the field. Obviously Dwayne has shown what he can do in terms of when he was with the Chiefs but he hasn’t done it here, I want to see it firsthand. I think it’s very important that we get those two guys involved. I’m not going to say I’m going to tailor the whole game plan around those two guys but we need to see what they can do. It’s a shame those guys missed as much time as they did because I’m not a big believer in saying ‘Hey, a guy’s been in the league for this many years, he doesn’t need to work on his craft’ a guy need to be on the field in my opinion. It’s like taking a four or five week sabbatical from doing a news story. You’re not going to be as good at it as if you do it every day. I’m a big believer in that guys need to be on the field and practicing, working on their craft every day.”

On if he is concerned about QB Johnny Manziel’s elbow:

“I’m not, I’m not. Johnny’s probably got what 30 to 40 percent of the other quarterbacks in the league have right now, sore elbow, sore shoulders. There’s a lot of wear and tear on those guys in terms of their arm. Those guys have been throwing footballs since they’ve been young guys. I’m not too concerned about it. If Joe Sheehan and the doctors come up to me and say’ Hey, this is something that’s going to be a chronic issue’ then there’s going to be some concern and we have to watch it but I’m not too concerned about Johnny right now, no. He’s doing fine.”

On if rest will take care of it:

“Once training camp is over and the volume of throws goes down usually that has a way of clearing up itself, it really doesn’t. I’ve been around guys before with elbow and shoulder issues that once they get out of camp and break camp after that first week. Your throw count goes down, there’s not as many receivers, you don’t get as many reps in the (individuals), your periods are cut shorter. You have a way of that calming down a little bit in the elbow and the shoulder.”

On if Manziel will practice today:

“I like to leave all injury issues to the head coach, just out of respect. I’m going to leave that to Coach Pettine.”

On if WR Terrelle Pryor has a lot to show to make the team:

“Absolutely. There’s got to be a sense of urgency from Terrell and I’ll be the first person to say that. Terrelle and I have a very special relationship because obviously I was his position coach for two years. Starting out with Terrelle, I’ll be frankly honest with you, I was very skeptical about Terrell’s mindset when he was going to come in here. Just because I know from coaching him for two years how passionate a person he is, how much he cares about his craft. I was really, concerned is the wrong word, but I was really excited to see how his mindset was going to be with a position change because as you know that’s a major change no matter what position you’re at. I’m really, really proud of the way he’s handled this. He has been receiver all the way, working on releases, getting with the DB’s and having them give him some tricks of the trade on how they see him as a bigger receiver. He has been all in at receiver and I- It was a shame Terrelle went down with the hamstrings because I thought he was making unbelievable strides, more so than many other players that I’ve seen that have tried to change positions at this level. It’s hard enough to play this game at this level at the position you’ve been playing since high school but when you go from quarterback to another position, that’s huge change. I’ve been really proud with the way Terrelle’s handled this whole thing.

On if there is risk in RB Duke Johnson sitting out during the preseason:

“Sure. Absolutely. We’re going to limit Dukes plays. We’re not going to throw him in there and have him practice 20 plays the first few days he’s back. We’re going to put him on a pitch count from anywhere from 10-12 plays today I think we have scripted for him. I’ve seen enough from Duke in the spring where I have a feel for what he can do and what the skillset is. At the same time he’s never been in a live situation before. It important to see Duke out there. I just don’t want to throw him out there and risk getting hurt again but yeah, he’s going to have a significant role, I would think, in this game on Saturday night. Now is he going to play 25, 30 plays? I don’t know but I’m hoping when he’s in there he can show us what he can do.”

On why he lasted so long in the draft:

“I don’t know. I know this: I’m glad he did and I think Ray Farmer made a great selection in choosing him. I’m glad he’s on our football team.”

On any players that surprised him in training camp:

“Yeah, there’s a few guys. Up front (OL) Darrian Miller I think has gotten a lot better. I think he’s a more natural tackle than he is a guard. We had him playing more guard in spring, I think he’s a much more natural tackle, that’s what he played at Kentucky. I think he’s playing pretty good and he’s getting a lot better. Emanuel Bibbs (TE E.J. Bibbs) has gotten a lot better, you know in terms of cutting down his mental mistakes. Obviously he shows what he can show when he has the ball in his hand, making guys miss. He’s done a nice job talking about the tight end position. Then the two guys that are playing receiver, Josh Lentz and Darius Jennings just continue to make plays every day on the field and in practice. That’s just all those guys do is do the right thing and make plays. From a young players standpoint those would we be the guys I’m really pleased with and excited about and I’m sure I’m leaving someone out but those are the guys.”

On McCown’s second interception in the preseason game:

“My thing is this though, you have to know how you’re going to play the game each week, to me. Going up against the Bills defense, there’s going to be some weeks where you feel – I’m not saying we weren’t confident or we couldn’t move the ball but there’s some weeks where points are going to be tough to come by some weeks, they just are. When you’re playing against a great front, we don’t have all of our weapons. My thing with Josh on that play is we had Gary Barnidge out in the flat. It would’ve been a bang, bang play at the sticks, I’m not sure we wouldn’t gotten the first down. But my thing is this, I think the ball was around plus 45, I don’t remember exactly what is was. Throw the ball to the flat, let Andy Lee do his job and then when you’re in a game where it’s going to be a 17-14 game a 10-7 game, pin them back and now you flip the field and then hopefully our defense, which was playing lights out too that night, holds them and now anytime you’ve changed the field, to me, it’s a win for us in the grand scheme of things. I think dependent on the way you’re playing the game I think going in we didn’t have a lot of time to talk about that stuff. Our game planning consisted of a four hour train ride back from Rochester. Didn’t have a lot of time to explain ‘Hey, this is how we’re going to play the game’ But that’s, yeah it’s a good question. I know what you’re thinking but my thing is too, I love the offensive lineman but there are five guys out there that can’t make a tackle, right? You’re throwing the ball to a DB and you never know what can happen so just take the flat, we’ll punt it. Andy has done a great job pinning guys inside the ten and let’s play football from there.

On Manziel’s progress from the start of OTA’s:

“I think he’s a new guy, I do. I think he’s a new guy. I think from a preparation standpoint and want to standpoint, haven’t changed since OTA’s but I think you see a different quarterback, I really do. I think his overall understanding of the game and what we’re trying to do has changed drastically. I really think that. He understands protections, he’s making the calls, he understands the sight adjusts, he understands his hots. Twice he’s had- once got documented- we had a substitution issue the other night and he got us into a play without one being called. You’re seeing those types of growth in him which I’m very pleased with. Our mantra with him and I talked about this with him all the time is one day at a time, just one day at a time. Practice after practice after practice together and next thing you know, you’re taking a one day at a time attitude and you put four or five days in a row of good work in.”

On Manziel going through progressions of plays like the throw to Darius Jennings against the Bills:

“Absolutely. What happened is, you take that backside post when the free safety’s going to try to cut the over route. People don’t realize that’s a tough play, rolling to your left, throwing that ball in the air as long as it was. I think it was 37 yards or 35 yards, that’s hard to do, that’s really hard to do. The defensive end bit but he still had a little bit of an angle on Johnny and that’s hard to do. For him to see that, I was very pleased and Darius made a great play for us and it was great to see it. He’s definitely going through his progression, no question. I wasn’t sure, to be honest with you, I went attack, attack which is running the ball after- I wasn’t sure the ball was caught from where I was standing so that’s why we lined up right on the ball. I didn’t want to give Rex a chance to throw the red flag and take away an explosive pass gain.”

On why Manziel hasn’t played against first team defenses:

“I wouldn’t say keep it at bay, I would say again we’re taking the one day at a time mentality with Johnny and letting him grow within himself. I don’t think Josh, to be honest with you, take away the one throw that he threw deep that we already talked about. I don’t think Josh has done anything to warrant the change of reps, I’m pleased with Josh right now. There’s never a thing as a flawless drive but that drive against our defense in the scrimmage and that drive against Washington was as close to flawless as you can get. I’m pleased with where Josh is right now and I’m really pleased with the role that Johnny’s in right now because he’s getting better every day. He’s really getting better every day, he’s into it. Obviously, he’s got some magic to him which we see when he’s on the field and I think we’re comfortable with where he is in his role.”

On what he is doing physically to get better throwing the ball:

“I think accuracy comes with knowing where to go with the football. Your body follows your eyes, it really does in the mechanics of throwing a football. So if your eyes are in the right spot, if I’m going from here to here to here normally your body follows with you. I always equate everything -I always joke around with the quarterbacks- like my golf swing. My heads all over the place I spray the ball everywhere. It’s the same thing when you’re playing quarterback. If I become crazy eyes, if you’ve got crazy eyes and your looking all over the field you’re not going to be an accurate quarterback because there’s a lot of moving parts in your body. I think the number 1 thing is he actually knows where to look right now in terms of his progressions, in terms of is it a half field read , is it a full field read, is it a middle third read. He’s buying into that and knowing where to go with the football. I think that’s what you’re seeing and I made a comment in spring about it, where Johnny needed to be more accurate and I think that’s another area of his improvement is because he knows where his eyes are.”

On what he needs to see from RB Terrance West and RB Isaiah Crowell in the last two preseason games:

“That’s a good question. I tried to find out as much as I could against Buffalo. We threw the ball a little bit to see where the quarterbacks were at against Washington and I wanted to see where these two backs were this past week. I was pleased with the way both those guys ran the ball. Those guys are both really really good players in between the tackles. The things we need to improve with those guys are when we get them outside in pass routes. That’s constant work and improvement and they know that, I’ve discussed that with them. But between the tackles those guys can really run. You saw (Isaiah Crowell) stiff arm, that was a heck of a play. Terrance on the fourth and one just hit it. Those guys between the tackles are pretty darn good. Just continued development and the tackle box a little bit with those guys and knowing where to go and how to run the routes and those things. I’ve been pleased with those guys in terms of when they’re running the football inside.”

On what Manziel can change mechanically to help his elbow:

“Couple things. You see a three quarter release sometimes and that just – I’m a big believer in this: once guys get to this level, you can help them with their lower body from the waist down, it’s really really hard to change from the waist up, it really is. You look at the guys that have been documented in the past in terms of bad mechanic quarterbacks. It follows them throughout their careers because it’s really hard when a guy’s been throwing a ball since he’s been ten years old to change that in an offseason or, especially now with the new CBA when you don’t get these guys in the offseason. You see them three quarters at times and sometimes that puts a lot of pressure on the elbow and on the shoulder. I wouldn’t say it’s the wrong way to throw a football because I’ve seen a lot of successful quarterbacks throw the ball and that’s part of the reason Johnny can get the ball out of his hand so fast. He’s got that whip release but at times that will put a lot of stress on your elbow.”

On his high comfort level with McCown:

“Comfort level. I think Josh gets us into the protections, he really knows the protections, he really knows the offense. I think he’s demonstrated, like I said, minus one pass that he can move the football. I feel like Josh, again, besides that one pass threw the ball well the other night. He’s done nothing to warrant that we can’t trust him to be the leader of this offense, that we can’t score points with him. I think Josh has shown that he can demonstrate all the skills needed to be a starting quarterback in the NFL.”

On if Pryor’s ability to play quarterback is a factor:

“Mary Kay, Terrelle is a receiver. (Laughter)

On paper he is a receiver....he MUST show some good stuff in a real exhibit game IF he makes the team...I hope his hamey is well enough AND he does good....GO Browns!!!!

Found this here. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/08/post_202.html

Vambo posted Flip's opinion on camp surprises, this gives you O'Neils.

Campbell looks like a keeper. He is everywhere in the preseason games.

Browns updated depth chart, as of 8/24/15.

Cleveland Browns at Tampa Bay Buccaneers Preseason Game 3

CLEVELAND BROWNS UNOFFICIAL DEPTH CHART

OFFENSE

WR 16 Andrew Hawkins 18 Taylor Gabriel 85 Vince Mayle 15 Marlon Moore 17 Josh Lenz 10 Darius Jennings

LT 73 Joe Thomas 79 Andrew McDonald 64 Darrian Miller

LG 75 Joel Bitonio 70 Vinston Painter

C 55 Alex Mack 62 Ryan Seymour 65 Eric Olsen

RG 77 John Greco 74 Cameron Erving 63 Karim Barton

RT 72 Mitchell Schwartz 61 Michael Bowie 69 Erle Ladson

TE 82 Gary Barnidge 81 Jim Dray 84 Rob Housler 88 E.J. Bibbs 89 Anthony Ezeakunne [86 Randall Telfer]

WR 83 Brian Hartline 11 Travis Benjamin 80 Dwayne Bowe 5 Shane Wynn [87 Terrelle Pryor]

QB 13 Josh McCown 2 Johnny Manziel 3 Thaddeus Lewis [9 Connor Shaw]

RB 34 Isaiah Crowell 28 Terrance West 20 Shaun Draughn 29 Duke Johnson Jr.
35 Jalen Parmele 49 Timothy Flanders [41 Glenn Winston]

FB 44 Malcolm Johnson [42 Luke Lundy]


DEFENSE

RE 94 Randy Starks 93 John Hughes III 90 Billy Winn 66 Jamie Meder

NT 98 Phil Taylor 71 Danny Shelton 67 Ishmaa’ily Kitchen 60 Jacobbi McDaniel

LE 92 Desmond Bryant 95 Armonty Bryant 96 Xavier Cooper 97 Dylan Wynn

OLB 99 Paul Kruger 48 Nate Orchard 50 Everette Brown

MIKE 56 Karlos Dansby 59 Tank Carder 52 Hayes Pullard III 57 Moise Fokou

WILL 58 Christian Kirksey 53 Craig Robertson

OLB 54 Scott Solomon 91 Mike Reilly [51 Barkevious Mingo]

RCB 22 Tramon Williams 36 K’Waun Williams 43 Charles Gaines 37 Kendall James 41 Aaron Ross [27 Robert Nelson Jr.]

LCB 23 Joe Haden 26 Pierre Desir 24 Johnson Bademosi 35 Joe Rankin [21 Justin Gilbert] [25 Ifo Ekpre-Olomu]

FS 39 Tashaun Gipson 40 De’Ante Saunders [33 Jordan Poyer]

SS 31 Donte Whitner 30 Ibraheim Campbell 38 Landon Feichter


SPECIAL TEAMS

P 8 Andy Lee

K 6 Travis Coons 4 Carey Spear

H 8 Andy Lee

KR 15 Marlon Moore 20 Shaun Draughn 21 Justin Gilbert 29 Duke Johnson Jr. 10 Darius Jennings

PR 11 Travis Benjamin 22 Tramon Williams 18 Taylor Gabriel 5 Shane Wynn [33 Jordan Poyer]

LS 47 Charley Hughlett

*Injured players are in [brackets] at the end

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...a4-fbf5f19a2ac7

Pullard, Campbell, Cooper, Shelton I dont know if any will be a star but all look like they belong.

Not only does he seem to be where he should play in and play out, but dang he's very physical. Love seeing that outta a strong safety, it's almost a "must" to be brutal...

Oneil Presser

Really good listen but I kept thinking to myself, he looks lost without his pal Scoobie Doo

It's funny, they always show Crowell at the top of the depth chart but West always seems to get the first few carries.

Buddy and I had this convo, battles:

Housler and Bibbs for that 3rd TE spot (Housler has much catching up to do. Has only shown up here and there it seems while Bibbs is constantly making himself an option.)

Desir and Williams for that second corner spot(Desir, especially after his hamstring, likely cannot overtake Tramon's spot. There's no reason to think he can snatch it up later in the season.)

Grecco and Erving for that guard spot (IMO, this is a no brainer. Grecco is solid and Erving has been very inconsistent, especially his time @ LT.)

West/Crow/Duke for the starting RB spot (Duke been injured pretty much forever it seems, Crow's stiff arm in the most recent game likely his best and West has done "okay". Noone here has flashed enough (not factoring what they did last year) to consume the starting role, Wilbert would likely grumpily agree.)

Kirksey and Roberston for the ILB spot (here, I don't think either will win or lose and I think it'll be 100% exactly like it was last year - they'll be rotated in and out.)

Orchard, Scott and Mingo for the OLB spot (Mingo injured, imagine that, but likely at 100% still not a lethal rushing threat. Probably more situational player on passing downs than anything IMO at this point in his NFL career. Orchard has looked pretty shaky. IMO, this is a lock and Scott will consume the bulk load there opposite of Paul.

Mayle/Pryor/Travis/Moore/Winn/Smith for the last WR spot (wow, where to even start? Seems like Moore and Travis each will get spots due to their special team abilities. Mayle has been iffy and Pryor hasn't been able to showcase his talents, or lack thereof. Winn (or is it Wynn?) has made some nice plays but his size is so questionable. Smith has size, but never really stands out.)

... outside of those areas/battles - I can't see or think anywhere else where it would be questionable or not a lock. Maybe at the DE spot but honestly, I think it's the same as the Kirk/Craig statement I said and there will be a ton of rotation there.

Thoughts? Additions?

Orchard was shaky in the first game, but was fine in the second. In the end, he only has to do one thing -- get to the QB.

Winn, Wynn, and Kitchen will all be fighting for the last DL roster spot.

Add Desmond Bryant to that list.

My Opinions

WR's Safe

BOWE, DWAYNE CC/KC
Hawkins, Andrew R/Cin
Hartline, Brian CC/Mia
Gabriel, Taylor CF14
Benjamin, Travis 12/4

Fighting for last spot..

Moore, Marlon SF14
Terrelle Pryor
Josh Lenz
Shane Wynn
Darius Jennings

I think Mayle gets cut and we keep another WR

O-line safe

THOMAS, JOE 07/1
Bitonio, Joel 14/2
Mack, Alex 09/1
GRECO, JOHN T/SL
Schwartz, Mitchell 12/2
Erving, Cameron 15/1

Fighting for 2 spots

Darrian Miller
McDonald, Andrew W/Ind
Painter, Vinston P/Den
Joe Madsen
Bowie, Michael W/Sea

Probably cut

Eric Olsen
Barton, Karim W/Phi
Eric Ladson

TE safe

Barnidge, Gary U/Car
Dray, Jim U/Arz
EJ Bibbs

Probably cut

Housler, Rob U/Arz
Menasseh Garner

IR

Telfer, Randall 15/6

QB Safe

MCCOWN, JOSH CC/TB
Manziel, Johnny 14/1

I think we'll keep 2

RB safe

Crowell, Isaiah CF14
West, Terrance 14/3
Johnson, Duke 15/3

I think we'll keep 3

FB safe

Johnson, Malcolm 15/6

We'll keep 1 and Bibbs can back-up

DL safe

Bryant, Desmond U/Oak
STARKS, RANDY CC/Mia
Cooper, Xavier 15/3
Shelton, Danny 15/1
Bryant, Armonty 13/7
Taylor, Phil 11/1
Hughes, John 12/3

Fighting for last spot

Winn, Billy 12/6
Kitchen, Ishmaa'ily W/Bal
McDaniel, Jacobbi CF14
Dylan Wynn

OLB's safe

Solomon, Scott SF14
Kruger, Paul U/Bal
Orchard, Nate 15/2

Might keep Reilly depending on how hurt Mingo is. Mingo could go to IR with possible early return. Could play A Bryant more here too.

ILB's safe

DANSBY, KARLOS U/Arz
Robertson, Craig CF11
Kirksey, Christian 14/3

Fighting

Carder, Tank W/Buf
Pullard, Hayes 15/7

CB's safe

Haden, Joe 10/1
WILLIAMS, TRAMON U/GB
Williams, K'Waun CF14
Desir, Pierre 14/4
Gaines, Charles 15/6

fighting

Gilbert, Justin 14/1
Bademosi, Johnson CF12

Ifo Ekpre-Olomu to IR.Personally, I'd take the cap hit and cut Gilbert.

Safeties safe

Whitner, Donte U/SF
Gipson, Tashaun CF12
Poyer, Jordan W/Phi
Campbell, Ibraheim 15/4

Could get a spot

Landon Feitcher
De'Ante Saunders

LS

Hughlett, Charley P/KC

Punter

Andy Lee

Kicker

Flip a freakin coin cause I'm not sure.

There are a few extra slots to fit some guys in, but not a lot.

You don't think Billy Winn is safe? I don't see any way he is cut.

People who say they would cut Gilbert are short-sighted and reactionary. No matter what you think of him, he is still more talented than most corners in the league. His problems are mental.

Also, I find it funny that people [I am not sure if the poster I am responding to holds this view] are trying to find a way to keep Pryor on the roster because he has potential, but fail to see that Gilbert also has potential (and has played his position in more than zero professional games).

If you aren't willing to keep Gilbert, then should every rookie who struggles after year one be cut? Any player with personality issues? It doesn't make any sense,

On a different subject, both of these kickers seem to be studs. Why wasn't one of them on the team last year when we were running Cundiff out there? Both were available.

Shelton, Big Phil, Cooper, Starks are pretty secure but the rest its anybody's guess. Winn's injury history along with the new additions very well could make him the odd man out. Desmond Bryant has the big contract. I think they like Kichen over Hughes. Meder, Wynn have both been getting some love. I have been hearing Atlanta has been calling looking to make a deel for DL.

I actually like all 3 of them, but we'll only keep 1 possibly 2. I don't think he's as safe as the others above him though.

Yeah Gilbert is a personal thing for me because I think he's a cancer. They won't cut him because of his contract, but he hasn't done a damn thing to earn it, doesn't seem motivated to change, and will be an anchor on the roster for at least another year.

Wait, people think Desmond Bryant could/should be cut? That's insane, he's easily our best defensive linemen.

Also, there is no way they like Kitchen better than Hughes. They signed Hughes to an extension and Kitchen the minimum tender possible.

Gilbert has earned his contract. He was drafted eight overall based on his ability. The contract is required. He hasn't done anything to earn a starting position.

And a guy that out-played him in camp will probably lose his job because of it.

Yes he got a contract because he looks like Tarzan, but he still plays like Jane.

Bademosi out-played him at corner (which is a brand new position for him) and is a much better special teams player.

Even if they decide to keep both of them, that just means a guy like Lenz or Wynn loses a job.

Do you really think Bademosi played well at CB? I sure didn't although I love him on ST.

Not that great, good enough to be the 6th CB, but a hell of a lot better than Gilbert.

You kind a wonder if Steelers are lurking!!

The Titans waived kicker Travis Coons to make room for newly-signed Ryan Succop. From what I've read, he had issues kicking deep on kick-offs. I guess he worked on it!

Philly had a similar issue strength and accuracy with Carey Spear.

Both guys were rookies last year and simply weren't strong enough. I guess a busy off season for both did the trick.

And we stole Andy Lee as well, our special teams could have easily went a different direction.

I agree w/a lot of what you are saying lately and I almost hate calling you out, but man.........

I am not saying we will cut him, but if he weren't such a high draft choice, he would be cut.

I am also questioning your evaluation about him being one of the most talented corners in the league. He is a poor tackler. His hips are stiff. He isn't good at jamming. I think he was overrated coming out of college and we took him too high.

I also think that when your problems are mental, your problems are huge. I hope you aren't insinuating that a poor mental make-up isn't important in football.....or life, for that matter?

I am not a talent evaluator, my basis for saying that he is one of the most talented corners is based off of where most people thought Gilbert should be drafted (first round). That would make him one of the most [physically] talented corners in the league.



Right. The poster I originally responded to had him cut in his projected 53 man roster.

This is one of the most untrue statements I have seen on this board in awhile. Gilbert made one colossal mistake and whiffed on one tackle. Other than that he was fine in the one preseason game he played.

Bademosi was horrendous on nearly every play the ball went in his direction.

If you have information that I don't have access to about how Bademosi is playing in practice as compared to Gilbert then I will concede the argument to you. I will say that I have heard good and bad things about Gilbert and heard next to nothing about Bademosi. Gilbert had one especially bad day during the intrasquad practice with Buffalo, but it was said that the entire secondary got torched that day (and that makes me assume that Gilbert just stood out because he was the shiny object).



Lenz and/or Wynn is not going to lose out on a job because of Gilbert. Teams are not cutting wide receivers at the expense of corners.

Based on what, exactly?

He has had toe, quad, and ankle injuries that have kept him out of training camp and games in his short career.

People want to paint him as a pass rusher, yet he has only 3 sacks in 3 seasons.

Last year Winn had 4 tackles for loss, 4 hurries, and 31 tackles. He had the 2nd most snaps on defense among DL last year, with 501 defensive snaps.

He's OK, but not a "must keep" guy.

I don't have anything to go off of other than I get the feeling the coaches like him and that he does his job adequately. I certainly think he is better than some of the guys currently below him on the depth chart.

If Billy Winn is you starting defensive end, you are probably screwed. But if he is your third or fourth guy you are probably feeling pretty good about your depth.

Can I get some clarification from somebody. These stats get reported a lot. Tackles and tackles for a loss.

So Winn had 4 tackles for a loss and 31 tackles. What exactly does that mean? Did he:

A - Have 4 tackles for a loss and 31 other tackles meaning 35 total tackles

or

B - 31 total tackles, 4 of which went for a loss

Evartime I hear these reported I get confused on exactly what it means.