DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavaliers Off-Season Continues

I wasn't criticizing you, I was asking you a question. Why do you always take personal offense every time somebody questions you? You say you feel like I have a sneer on my face when I respond. What did I type that led you to believe that? Is it okay for me to have an opinion when talking to you?

That said ...



All those are nice and good, but they aren't going to replace a guy of Kyrie Irving's caliber. Mo Williams at least has a few good years in the league, has had an all-star season and put up 50+ in a game this year. Even he isn't going to completely replace Irving. Which is why I asked what did you plan to do? We could trade him, but we're not to get anyone close to his worth right now.




I'm just pointing out that it didn't seem to be much of a concern for you last year when you were adamant that we trade for him. Injuries were one of the major concerns a lot of people brought up when listing the reasons we shouldn't just give up the farm to bring him in. Fair enough that we are a bit thinner at PG than PF right now.

Alright. I apologize and of course you can have an opinion. I actually value your opinion.




I am not talking about trading Kyrie. I considered it earlier, but it's too late now. I am also not just talking about this year. I have concerns about Kyrie's durability, not just this year, but each year moving forward.

I recognize and appreciate Kyrie's talent. I just think that we need to recognize his injury history and look to find a replacement just in case the injuries continue.

I understand that none of the guys I mentioned are as dynamic as Kyrie. I simply think the PG position is very important to the success of the team. I know YTown mentioned LeBron being able to handle the point, but I really don't like him there for large minutes. A few minutes at a time a few times a game is good, but I think we get stagnant when he is at the point. And yes, I do realize he is not really the PG, but he is monopolizing the ball up top.

I really wanted Love after studying Blatt's offense. I thought he was the perfect fit. His spot-up shooting would be a real weapon because we would have great floor spacing and ball movement. I loved his rebounding and his outlet passes. I believed he had the ability to make the 3 against anyone and could post guys up.

I still believe all of that, but we never really ran Blatt's true offense. We ran Le'Bron's offense w/some of Blatt's stuff incorporated into it. If LeBron would ever accept Blatt's offense, we could be deadly w/our current roster.

I also want to clarify something. When I was talking about Kyrie earlier in this thread, I was not just talking about this year. I worry about him always getting injured. Hopefully, that won't happen. And I am NOT knocking the Cavs. They made some great moves over the last couple of years. I am happy w/our direction. I just think it would be wise to have a younger PG on the roster who could be a solid contributor. I would not expect us to find a guy of Kyrie's abilities. That is unrealistic.

I know, that's why I said put together trade with Toronto. Work out sign And trade if it is indeed his desire and its mutual from Toronto

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...partner=ya5nbcs

Apparently TT wants a max deal and nothing less. Was nice knowing you TT.

Just hope Lebron has common sense. If he feels TT is insane, I guarantee TT is gone.

I want to live in Rich Pauls world..must be wonderful there...See ya TT, good luck getting anyone to be dumb enough to give a marginal player the max. Just because you can, don't mean you should.

Its really simple, was TT a max player before lebron, hell no...and sure isn't one now. Not to mention, losing a TT does not make or break our championship aspirations.. Another indicator if he's worth the max.

Rich Paul is going to get a rep of being hard to work with...going to have a hard time getting teams to do business with him. Its not like he represents alot of players, owners can be choosy when it comes to him then.

What's Lebron going to do about it though? Leave the Cavs again? He would be insane himself to irreversibly soil his legacy over giving TT a max deal. And it's not like we're refusing to re-sign him either. $80/5yr is overpaying him as it is.

See ya TT! Thinking he has a little case of the Peyton Hillis syndrome. Good luck elsewhere though TT, no way I see us coughing out a max for someone who's just a tall, high-energy guy thats one real, some say the only one, attribute is rebounding. We already got that, and another large as$ sum of money, wrapped up in our cheerleader Andy!

The biggest thing is you give a average player like TT 94 million, next year you have to give Mosgov a contract as well. For worth to the team by Paul's calculator, mosgovs contract should be about 150million then

Not only that, he would probably be walking into another situation where it will take them 2 years to get to where we are now.. why would he want to do that out of some misguided loyalty to TT? I seriously doubt it.

The goal is to win the Championship. I bet we keep TT.

We'll see.

No one is denying that we should keep Tristan around, he's a great player to have on your bench..

The bench.

You don't give bench players Max contracts.. And any bench player that thinks they deserve the max, is the kind of guy that ends up sucking up cap room on a crappy team...

Ask yourself this ... If Anderson Varejao had stayed healthy for the last few years, would he be worth a max contract? Because he's essentially the same player as TT:



Most people think we overpaid Andy at $10 million a year, even before he got into his injury troubles. He can also hit a shot outside of 5 feet.

thats what I was saying in the beginning, Andy is a much better player than TT when healthy and he only gets 10 million..but somehow TT is worth 20? I'm 100% fine with letting TT walk, you can't give an average player that kind of money, especially when the guy hes backing up is going to get a contract next year too.. If I'm Cavs, I just say we're not giving you a max, so just sign the QO and see how it plays out.

I wonder how much Toronto's GM is trying to manipulate the cap situation of a division rival. I mean, I'm sure they'd love to see the Cavs capped out heading into next year with no possible way of getting better. So, why not tell TT's agent, "Yeah sure, we'll give you a max next year when we have cap room" ... and then hope the Cavs match the bluff.

Why would Toronto want to pay TT twice as much as anyone else on their roster? Because he's Canadian? I agree with you lead. I think they should offer the 80/5 contract they had earlier and the QO and say take it or leave it. I can't see him turning down 80/5 guaranteed on the "hope" that Toronto will actually give him a max next year. Then he could possibly be in for a rough season too. He's going to be battling for minutes with a healthy Andy and a newly signed Sasha Kaun.

We all have our own opinions. I like Andy, but I think TT is a superior player. I also believe he is an integral part of our team in its quest to bring a championship to Cleveland.

Not asking anyone to agree w/me. Just voicing my opinion.

I think alot of this is posturing by Paul, he knows TT's minutes are going to go down, especially if Andy is effective, he's a much better backup to Love then TT is, and Kaun at first glance is a better Center than TT, have to see how that plays out. So they are trying to cash in now, can't blame them for trying, but they are being unreasonable now

Somebody is going to be stupid enough to give Thompson that max contract. With the way the salary cap is going up, some team is going to be left with a bunch of money to spend and sign Thompson (a la Stoudemire in the LeBron/Wade/Bosh year). It's going to happen, we just don't know who the sucker is yet. Apparently it is not the Cavs, which is kind of surprising.

Ya' think????

Gee, that will be the first time that has happened in any negotiation.

Do y'all really not understand how this game is played?

I say he will be back w/us.

Agree or disagree w/that statement. That way we won't have all of the double talk like we did w/the Love situation a year ago.

Let me guess...........most will ignore the question and then act like they knew TT would be back the entire time.

I will say there are a couple of you who have already voted. I seem to remember reading............"see ya, TT."

We'll see.

You can't lose all of the time

i don't think so. He's not a max player in any scenario. He isn't or probably ever will be an all star..8/8 isn't going to get you a max. Could be wrong, might be a sucker, but I really really doubt it.

There are a couple of things to address here:

1. TT and Stoudemire are not comparable players.

2. If you are a bad team or even a mediocre team w/no shot of winning the title w/in the next few years....you should not sign TT. However, if you are a team like the Cavs, w/a legit shot of winning the title, it would be ignorant not to retain TT.

I wasn't comparing Stoudemire and Thompson as players, I was comparing the situations. Traditionally NBA teams will spend money just because they have it available (like when the Pistons signed Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva). That summer the Knicks tried to sign LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and/or Joe Johnson. They whiffed on all four. They were left with a ton of cap room, Amar'e was the last guy left and they gave him the max even though they couldn't even get insurance on his contract.

Some team will be stupid enough to give Thompson the contract he wants. Bad NBA teams always do dumb things.

Vers, it's pretty much a given that TT will be back for us this year. It's not even a question. He's a RFA, so unless he wants to sit unpaid for a year, he's going to be back with us.

The question is will it be for a one year qual offer or a max. If he doesn't get a max, he's threatening to leave in a year. In that case ... see ya (as in next off-season). He's not worth a max, and he'll be an albatross of a contract for anyone who signs up for that.

I get the feeling it's not going to come to that anyway. I really don't see TT taking the QO with the open knowledge that he's going to bail on the team in a year. That wouldn't sit well with teammates and fans. Would he really want to play one more year in a potentially hostile situation where his minutes can easily be taken by three other players who are committed for at least 2 more years? Kind of hard to put up big numbers in a contract year while in a situation like that.

yeah i don't think anyone debates he's here next year...theres just no way around that. I think just about everyone that actually watches the game are in agreement that the cavs are being VERY generous with 80 million. I personally don't think he's worth more than 50-60 for what he does. I think having the haywood chip has allowed the cavs to stand pat..They know they can replace his production with that chip. I think something long term will be worked out closer to camp. But it won't be the max

I thought the Haywood chip was already traded, right? We have a trade exemption now.

And Excl brings up a good point, after announcing you're leaving, it's not going to be easy to drive up or retain his value playing limited minutes. Although, like others have said, some idiot team will offer him a max just because they have the space and need to make a headline.

yeah, thats what i meant...we have resources to bring in 14 million worth of salary

Next year there are much better players out there teams will throw a max out at before TT. Next year is a crazy year for quality FA...another reason Paul is trying to extort the cavs now. Peaple aren't going to line up to throw 100 million at a guy that only averages 8/8 playing with lebron.

Would you give Tristan Thompson the same amount of Money you give Kyrie, or Love?

Is Tristan Thompson a necessity for the Cavaliers, or a luxury? - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bask...ers-or-a-luxury

There is a lot of noise when trying to figure out what makes the Cleveland Cavaliers tick. Obviously, everything begins and ends with LeBron James, but as Cleveland saw in his first stint with the Cavs from 2003 to 2010, and again last year, having the best player in the world isn't enough on its own to bring home that coveted championship. Having the right mix of stars and role players around him is necessary in today's NBA because the competition at the top is too good for one man to do it all.

The Cavs already had Kyrie Irving when they brought James back and they quickly made a trade for All-NBA power forward Kevin Love. In-season, they brought in Timofey Mozgov to stabilize the offense along with J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert to fill out the wings. After that, the Cavs took off and started realizing their championship potential with consistent and at times incredible play. It was during the month of February when you really saw the insane potential of this team, and it didn't have as much to do with Tristan Thompson -- who remains unsigned -- as it seems we're all being led to believe.

Consider that Cleveland's top-producing lineup last season was Irving, Smith, James, Love and Mozgov. It was the ideal combination of stellar defense and impossible-to-defend offense. In 481 minutes (most of any lineup for this team in 2014-15), this lineup scored 116.1 points per 100 possessions while giving up just 96.8 points. That net rating of plus-19.3 was the second best in the NBA -- behind a Golden State Warriors' lineup that put together a plus-19.6 net rating in 813 minutes.

Put another way, no other lineup with at least 300 minutes together on the floor was able to come within 1.5 points per 100 possessions of that Cavs lineup.

You'll notice that lineup doesn't include Thompson, who was consistently good for the Cavs almost the entire season but really became a headliner in the playoffs. In fairness to Thompson, the Cavs were always more effective with him on the floor than they were when he was on the bench -- except for their most dominant stretch of the season. In February, they went 8-3 with wins over the Clippers, Heat (before Chris Bosh had his blood clots scare), Wizards and Warriors. Their net rating that month was plus-8.8 -- higher than any other month of the season.

During that stretch against big-time competition, the Cavs were a minus-1.4 points per 100 with Thompson on the floor and a plus-19.9 with him on the bench. Small sample size? Sure. But when you're talking about potentially giving Thompson a max contract, and trying to determine if he's really that integral to your success, that's a staggering stretch of dominance to just disregard.

Again, it wasn't until the playoffs that we saw just how valuable Thompson could be to Cleveland. When Love went down with a dislocated shoulder in the first round against Boston, Thompson stepped in and owned the next two rounds. The Cavs destroyed Chicago when he was on the floor (plus-12.6) and floundered when he was on the bench (minus-11.4). He outplayed Paul Millsap in the conference finals and the Cavs were 5.8 points per 100 better with him on the floor than off.

In the NBA Finals, the eye test told you he was a big reason the Cavs were able to remain competitive on both ends of the floor -- but the on/off numbers actually told a different story. When the dust settled on the Finals, the Cavs were minus-16.6 points per 100 with Thompson on the floor and plus-17.9 with him on the bench. Again, there's a lot of randomness in that small sample size as well, but can you really turn away from those numbers?

The problem with figuring out whether or not the Cavs should pony up the max contract Thompson is seeking (and reports claim is awaiting him in unrestricted free agency in 2016 whether the Cavs offer it or not) is that there isn't a big enough sample size to fairly judge much of this. On paper, the Cavs should scoff at Thompson's demands for a max deal. After all, they're looking at a difference of nearly $40 million in luxury tax money owed by giving in to the demands of a guy who, again, was not even a part of their most effective lineup.

The narrative has become that Thompson was some kind of savior in the playoffs, and it was that -- along with sharing the same agent as LeBron -- that led most to believe he was getting what he wanted this offseason. But listen, Mozgov is an unrestricted free agent in 2016 as well, and if you look at those same production scales, he could well end up being more important to the Cavs getting that first title than Thompson.

Mozgov was a better rim protector in the regular season (46.6 percent allowed compared to Thompson's 52.2 percent) and that only became more exaggerated in the playoffs. During the postseason, Thompson allowed 52.3 percent at the rim, while Mozgov allowed an absurdly low 38.8 percent.

The question becomes whether or not you believe Love can be healthy enough in the postseason to make Thompson more of a luxury than a necessity. Thompson is the third-best big man on the team and probably has the third-lowest potential of the three options, despite being the youngest of the three. You typically don't pay a backup player $16 million-plus.

Perhaps the best answer is just to pay Thompson and not worry about the money. If the Cavs bring a title home to Cleveland in 2016, Dan Gilbert will be printing more money in Cleveland than he already does. And that extra luxury tax will have been worth it. They do still have to grab that first title though before they can make excuses for the money they hemorrhage in luxury tax payments, and their best chance of doing that may not involve Thompson being on the court.

It's a tough decision for the Cavs to make, but it's hard not to feel like they have the upper hand in all of this. Is Thompson going to leave LeBron? Are other teams dying to pay him max money? Do the Cavs need him to win or is he simply an expensive insurance policy?

"We'll see.."

So looks like TT decided not to take Lebrons "invitation" to come train in Miami with him.. If lebron asks you to come train, you pretty much do it. Everyone else on the team is going. I think that shows what's important to TT and its not winning. The more that this drags out the less respect I have for TT/Paul. Even if he does sign, he's not going to be a fan favorite among clevelanders

The gang's all here ... well, mostly.




Tristan Thompson, out of Lebron's inner circle now?? [/sarcasm]

Tat guy on the left, ( next to the miniature Andre the giant), looks like he is about 12 years old.
damn I am getting old

Yeah I was going to say ... Joe Harris looks like a ball boy they invited over from the play-ground next door.

Looks like a fun crew. Bring home a banner this year.

Thompson out, Love back in....

Yup. This is all I want-

That Lerch in the background? LOL

Youuuuuuu rang

Your also senile for forgetting that you ARE OLD