DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Another Manziel Thread

Bold Prediction:

Manziel goes on IR.

Farmer has publicly accepted responsibility for the two first round picks last year. But no way in hell will I ever be convinced that Manziel wasn't a Haslam pick or that Gilbert wasn't a Pettine "must have".

That's an italicized prediction.



FIFY.

when i read reached out to noted orthopedic surgeon Dr. James Andrews that was my first thought. from what i heard of the guy no one go to him unless its bad.

Former NFL coach Jon Gruden alarmed by Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel’s elbow trouble: ‘I’d be very concerned’

The trouble Browns backup quarterback Johnny Manziel is experiencing with his throwing arm has raised the eyebrows of Jon Gruden, the former Super Bowl-winning head coach and unabashed Manziel fan who has worked closely with the former Heisman Trophy winner.
“Hopefully it’s nothing severe, but I’d be very concerned anytime a young quarterback or any quarterback is on the shelf for arm reasons,” Gruden, now an ESPN analyst, said Wednesday during a conference call promoting Monday Night Football. “I haven’t seen that anywhere else in pro football this year.”
Manziel, 22, hasn’t thrown since Aug. 23 because of soreness in his right elbow and forearm, which he attributes to tendinitis he’s dealt with every season since his freshman year at Texas A&M University, including in his rookie year with the Browns. An MRI on Manziel’s arm revealed no structural damage, and he and the Browns maintain rest should allow him to bounce back.
Manziel has been shut down for the preseason (he didn’t play in the third exhibition game Saturday at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and he’ll be sidelined for the preseason finale Thursday night at the Chicago Bears).
But Browns coach Mike Pettine said Tuesday he and head athletic trainer Joe Sheehan are confident Manziel will be able to throw by the end of this week.
The 22nd overall pick in the 2014 draft, Manziel also said none of the medical experts the Browns have consulted, including noted orthopedist James Andrews, has recommended surgery.
“This is an injury that from everything I’ve heard, no matter what the case it wouldn’t require that,” Manziel said Tuesday. “More than anything it’s just sore, just a little bit of overthrowing and make sure I’m icing and doing what I need to do.”
Gruden got to know Manziel when they spent time together last year in front of ESPN cameras during the filming of Gruden’s QB Camp. Then Manziel reached out to Gruden and visited the former Buccaneers and Oakland Raiders coach in Tampa, Fla., for a couple of days the week before he reported to Browns training camp in late July.
Despite Gruden’s familiarity with Manziel, he was caught off guard when news of arm problems surfaced.
“It was a little bit of a surprise to me,” Gruden said. “I don’t remember hearing about a lot of arm problems until recently. I had not had that brought to my attention, so I would be very concerned. His arm never came up when I met with him.”
Browns offensive coordinator John DeFilippo has said Manziel’s throwing motion — specifically a three-quarter release — is conducive to elbow soreness. Pettine has said the Browns won’t change Manziel’s mechanics at this point in his career.
Gruden acknowledged the way Manziel throws can cause problems.
“He does have a lot of different awkward deliveries that he makes,” Gruden said. “I mean he is almost double jointed at times. He’ll be running to his left, throw the ball against the grain awkwardly, side-armed.”

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/former...cerned-1.620939

His elbow is a problem no doubt.

That's my in-depth analysis. All things considered really though...With this as a legitimate concern. You cant rely on Johnny to be the guy in the future. You can hope, and it's still a possibility, but it cant be a guaranteed observation anymore.

Hope JF gets his package together soon. Tired of the articles that only rehash him.

We get those a bunch. Team is there too. Hope he gets it together.

jc...to add this PFT story.



Gruden is concerned about Manziel’s elbow problems


Posted by Mike Florio on September 2, 2015, 8:09 PM EDT

Former NFL coach Jon Gruden loves him some Johnny Manziel. Gruden doesn’t love him some Manziel elbow tendinitis.

“It was a little bit of a surprise to me,” Gruden said Wednesday regarding Manziel’s elbow problems, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “I don’t remember hearing about a lot of arm problems until recently. I had not had that brought to my attention, so I would be very concerned. His arm never came up when I met with him.”

Gruden met with Manziel for two days in 2014 as part of the Gruden’s QB Camp series, and Gruden then worked with Manziel earlier this year. Gruden knew nothing about a supposedly chronic issue with which Manziel has been dealing for years.

“Hopefully it’s nothing severe, but I’d be very concerned anytime a young quarterback or any quarterback is on the shelf for arm reasons,” Gruden said. “I haven’t seen that anywhere else in pro football this year.”

The elbow problems have prevented Manziel from playing at a time when he was making real progress on the field. And the progress came after an offseason in which it seemed that the Browns were ready to move on from him.

While there’s no specific indication that Manziel may be in danger of not making the team, consider this: He’s owed a total of $3.257 million guaranteed over the next three seasons. If the Browns were willing to let Phil Taylor walk away with $5.477 million in fully-guaranteed salary with no offset for 2015, maybe the Browns would consider cutting the cord on Manziel, who has offset language in his deal.

Before doing that, they’d probably consider trying to trade him. But if he can’t play due to elbow problems arising from the primary thing a quarterback does, it would be tough to get anyone else to take on that commitment.

link

Was Farmer aware of this elbow issue before the draft? Does anyone know?

This is no different then when we drafted Couch. We knew he had elbow issues also. He got tennis elbow every training camp and had to rest it. He was around awhile, and if we gave him a good line he might have been good.

12 oz curls can be painful... takes many many reps to achieve results

Thanks Mac.

EO...maybe you will like this "source" better.


http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/former...cerned-1.620939

Former NFL coach Jon Gruden alarmed by Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel’s elbow trouble: ‘I’d be very concerned’

By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal sports writer

Updated: September 3, 2015 - 09:22 AM

The trouble Browns backup quarterback Johnny Manziel is experiencing with his throwing arm has raised the eyebrows of Jon Gruden, the former Super Bowl-winning head coach and unabashed Manziel fan who has worked closely with the former Heisman Trophy winner.
“Hopefully it’s nothing severe, but I’d be very concerned anytime a young quarterback or any quarterback is on the shelf for arm reasons,” Gruden, now an ESPN analyst, said Wednesday during a conference call promoting Monday Night Football. “I haven’t seen that anywhere else in pro football this year.”
Manziel, 22, hasn’t thrown since Aug. 23 because of soreness in his right elbow and forearm, which he attributes to tendinitis he’s dealt with every season since his freshman year at Texas A&M University, including in his rookie year with the Browns. An MRI on Manziel’s arm revealed no structural damage, and he and the Browns maintain rest should allow him to bounce back.
Manziel has been shut down for the preseason (he didn’t play in the third exhibition game Saturday at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and he’ll be sidelined for the preseason finale Thursday night at the Chicago Bears).
But Browns coach Mike Pettine said Tuesday he and head athletic trainer Joe Sheehan are confident Manziel will be able to throw by the end of this week.
The 22nd overall pick in the 2014 draft, Manziel also said none of the medical experts the Browns have consulted, including noted orthopedist James Andrews, has recommended surgery.
“This is an injury that from everything I’ve heard, no matter what the case it wouldn’t require that,” Manziel said Tuesday. “More than anything it’s just sore, just a little bit of overthrowing and make sure I’m icing and doing what I need to do.”
Gruden got to know Manziel when they spent time together last year in front of ESPN cameras during the filming of Gruden’s QB Camp. Then Manziel reached out to Gruden and visited the former Buccaneers and Oakland Raiders coach in Tampa, Fla., for a couple of days the week before he reported to Browns training camp in late July.
Despite Gruden’s familiarity with Manziel, he was caught off guard when news of arm problems surfaced.
“It was a little bit of a surprise to me,” Gruden said. “I don’t remember hearing about a lot of arm problems until recently. I had not had that brought to my attention, so I would be very concerned. His arm never came up when I met with him.”
Browns offensive coordinator John DeFilippo has said Manziel’s throwing motion — specifically a three-quarter release — is conducive to elbow soreness. Pettine has said the Browns won’t change Manziel’s mechanics at this point in his career.
Gruden acknowledged the way Manziel throws can cause problems.
“He does have a lot of different awkward deliveries that he makes,” Gruden said. “I mean he is almost double jointed at times. He’ll be running to his left, throw the ball against the grain awkwardly, side-armed.”
Nate Ulrich can be reached at nulrich@thebeaconjournal.com.

As usual another Browns regime failed to do its due diligence on a player
I don't think the Browns even attended his pro day.

So reporter calls Gruden and says "is this a concern?"

(Any injury, especially to a QBs arm, is a concern)

Gruden says "yes it's a concern"

Reporter writes War and Peace-ian article.with the bottom line being 'Gruden says it's a concern'

This is, one assumes, the same Jon Gruden of the Gruden's Quarterback Camp which Manzel attended.
Funny he didn't notice any problems or voice any concerns then.
Oh wait....then he was being paid to 'help' quarterbacks not paid to produce soundbites.

Manziel visited Gruden on his own accord this off-season. There were no cameras present (that we know of).

I'm not a Johnny follower, but he is winning me over. He has his head on right, has the skill set, and completely changed his work ethic to become the best QB possible. IMO the game speed has slowed down for him and it shows in his performance...and he's only 22! My only SERIOUS concern is his elbow soreness. But the medics willt get that under control and the Browns will be set.

No, he sucked. He couldn't read coverages. He held the ball too long when he tried to go downfield. He resorted to checking down, like most qbs who can't read coverages. His mechanics were a mess. He didn't understand route trees. He was a spoiled brat that was not very well-liked by his teammates. They were ready to mutiny if KH wouldn't have been named the starter that year when Butch said it was a "gut feeling." I had contacts back then and I guarantee you the gut feeling was because the guys on the team let Butch know how they felt about the situation.

Yeah?
The mutiny should have been against Botch.
Most of the players around him sucked, so screw them. He was a QB type who if just left him to play football, would win. I'll always back couch. He was our QB when the Browns came back, led us to some huge come from behind wins. Especially in December 2002. At Baltimore. Remember that game???

That attitude was so prevalent at the time. Those guys played their assess off and took all the blame for Timid's issues. The guy couldn't even freaking practice responsibly. Joking around. Goofing off. Not listening to the coaches. Not taking drills seriously.

He was a jerk!

Didn't Couch have some sort of screwy bad habit coming out of college... IIRC wasn't it that he threw the ball without using the laces?? I think I remember hearing that Chris Palmer had to teach him how?

He had all kinds of issues. Lack of a playbook was the biggest one.

Oh no . . .



http://www.adaherald.com/Content/News/Lo...sign/2/5/110167

That's not all that unusual in the era of the shotgun.

I was mostly joking.

Baltimore dec 22 2002

Just read manziel throwing at practice

But his arm was more than just sore, Pettine's a liar, Manziel is going on IR because we signed another QB!

Manziel throwing again at Browns' practice

Johnny Manziel is throwing again.


The Plain Dealer reported that Cleveland's backup quarterback was seen tossing the ball during Monday's practice after missing the team's final two preseason games with elbow tendinitis.

Manziel graduated to lobbing the pigskin after spending the past few days launching a mixture of weighted orbs and tennis balls.

Still wearing a sleeve on his elbow -- something Manziel's done often -- last year's first-round pick threw during position drills and also handed the ball off. Mary Kay Cabot of The Plain Dealer wrote that Johnny "put good spin on the ball" and showed no sign of discomfort.

Manziel remains lodged behind veteran starter Josh McCown, but the Browns -- who also signed Austin Davis on Monday -- loom as a lock to roll out multiple starters in 2015. Getting a long look at Manziel still remains a central focus ahead of next year's draft.

His skills > Josh. He is prepared enough to run the offense. Mostly he is hampered by the lack of skill players on this team.

Let him start and take his lumps. We need to know what we have.

I don't want to see Josh and his hero ball any more.

The Browns are not winning more than 4 or 5 games this year. There is zero upside to letting McCown play again. Sink or swim with Manziel and move forward with him or without him in 2016.

i dont think his arm will take being a starter.

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 3m3 minutes ago
#Browns QB Johnny Manziel said problematic right elbow felt good majority of game but would "bite" at times. Said it did that at Texas A&M.

First game of the season, remember 2007 when we get handed our butts by the steelers then went on to a 10-6 season.

Stay calm and stay the course. It's only one game

Are you blind or just... ???

I'll raise you one also...We won't win ONE game this year.

Unfortunately I don't think Pettine will do it.

But I agree we should get him in the game and get him experience. No substitute for that.

might as well. there's nothing to lose really.