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I am just curious how you would react if the situation were reversed, and say maybe the courts decided that abortion was illegal ..... and your job was to sign arrest warrants for those who have ever had an abortion.

Let's say that you needed that job, because your wife was ill, and you absolutely needed the exceptional insurance your job provided, and that you could not hope to find another job paying what that job pays.

I wonder if you would just say "Oh well", and sign the warrants. What if your sister, or mother, or wife was on the list of those to be arrested and prosecuted.

Would you just stand by quietly and do as ordered, or would you refuse, and protest against such actions? Would you then not be a "grown up" ..... would you be a leech ...... or would you be a person whose job suddenly changed to be a violation of your conscience?

I remember a few people who were going to protect their God by killing Romans, but were persuaded to follow the Orders of Rome. I also remember a man who was about to get killed that let Rome kill him. Hardly rebellious acts.

They were also breaking no laws. If you read later in the script a top law expert persuades people not to kill them. They all received floggings that they took willingly and left.

Kinda reinforces the idea of this part: 1 Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. 2 So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. 3 For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.

She took the job of issuing Marriage License's to one man and one woman, then you changed the rules on her and forced her to
commit an immoral act to keep her job. Her signature is needed to approve a Homosexual union.

Now I have no doubt if you were in charge of signing Government orders, back in the day, You would not
have hesitated to sign Jesus's Crucifixion orders since it was your duty at the time.

Civil Disobedience is a long standing, peaceful practice by
Christians the world over.

I and many other Christians will be sending money to pay her
fines and pay for her defense.

Why don't they just fire her?

Because when the government employs people, they have to do it without consideration of race, creed, religion, nation of origin, etc. They would be violating her First Amendment rights of freedom of religion and freedom to associate. They will lose that lawsuit.

Family Foundation Forms Defense Fund For Clerks Refusing to Issue Marriage Licenses


The Family Foundation’s Kentucky chapter has established a legal defense fund for county clerks who refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

Four couples in Rowan County recently sued county clerk Kim Davis because she has declined to issue marriage licenses after the Supreme Court ruling lifted same-sex marriage bans across the U.S. Casey County Clerk Casey Davis is also not issuing marriage licenses.

Kentucky Family Foundation Executive Director Kent Ostrander said no government worker should be forced to do something that’s against their religious beliefs.

“When America was at war and its own existence was in question, America never required the conscientious objector to pull the trigger,” Ostrander said. “In the same way, government should do its best to accommodate all citizens with their religious liberties.”

http://wfpl.org/family-foundation-forms-defense-fund-clerks-refusing-issue-marriage-licenses/

The rules change in many businesses. You are always expected to do your job. Nobody is forcing her to stay at a job that requires her to do something she believes is sinful.



See, this is where the part comes that you really don't wish to discuss or debate things. This is where you resort to being insulting and rude. It's why so many ridicule you. This is not necessary on your part.

It's also easy to see which I would choose to do based on the choices this woman also has. I would resign from the job and walk away. It's really that simple.

All I did was back up what you said about her when you said...

"The lady has a job that requires her to follow the law. Either she can perform that job or she can't."

You, i'm sure, would have followed the law like a good soldier.

Perhaps I misunderstood that time you said you were a Christian. Your posts are anything but.

You bang on the table demanding this woman turn away from her
relationship with God to perform an immoral act in the name
of Caesar. Hmmmm.

jc

I think Kim Davis is free to make her stand as she sees fit, along with the consequences that come with that. We can talk about her being hypocritical and yes it is funny that she was married 4 times, but ultimately people should be able to stand up for their beliefs, whether we agree with them or not. She has a hearing for being in contempt of court soon, and I imagine she will be found in contempt. If that happens then other clerks who wish to follow in her footsteps will know the penalty for doing so. I'm sure she's getting money for this pilot program (40 alluded to it at least) and soon we will see what the penalty is.

I am most certainly a Christian. I understand the government is not Christian. You tried to say I would authorize the death order for Christ. The law of the land and my beliefs are two separate issues.

If at any time my job requires something of me to perform my lawfully required duties of my job that goes against my religious beliefs, I have the option to find a job I can perform following those beliefs.

I don't impose my beliefs upon others. That's their decision. I don't try to impose my beliefs on government policy. My beliefs are between me and God. If you decide to question my beliefs or Christianity, that will be between you and God.

But you demand it of that woman!

Demand what? She has a choice here. The law of the land requires her to perform certain duties. It's not a choice, it's the law. As such, she does not have to do this. She can find a job that does not require this of her. That's her choice that she has every right to execute.

Nobody is forcing her to stay there. When the law requires something of you in the profession that you have chosen, you always have the right to change jobs.

The government law is performed by someone else who is comfortable with following the law and you are not forced to give up on your principals.

If you have been working at your job for many years and feeding your family and paying your bills when suddenly
your employer announces you are required to kill a kitten
each day at the beginning of work, you think you should be
forced to disrupt everything in your life by suddenly walking
away from your job???

I might say no, I won't kill kittens, don't like it? Fire me!

But noooo, you and your followers want to drag her into court
to make an example of her and destroy her life and break her
will.

Gays can go right over to the next county to get that license,
oh, but they won't because they smell Christian blood in the
water.

SHAME!

My followers?



I have nothing to do with it. I didn't make the law nor was I the judge who gave the order to her.

You are a very funny man.

I'm looking at things the way they are now.

Did you feel this upset when companies outsourced many American jobs to China? Or are you only offended by people losing long times jobs based on their refusal to uphold a judges orders?

I agree Pit. I've been a big advocate of giving private business as much leeway as possible in how they run their business... she is not a private business, she is a public employee. Therefore, she has to follow the law of the land. If she doesn't like it, she can step down or face other discipline.

She had the 3rd husbands kid while married to the first husband and the second husband adopted the kid. I think she and Caesar have already been performing immoral acts for some time.

And she repented to God! Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone! Would that be you?

...and she's in jail.

When did she repent? Do they give certificates or participation trophies for that now?

I believe if you look above when you questioned my Christianity, that you may fall under this description. Not sure, but you may wish to check.

Kentucky clerk gets jail time for failing to issue same-sex marriage licenses


Ashland, Kentucky (CNN)—Rowan County, Kentucky, clerk Kim Davis couldn't be swayed to heed a U.S. Supreme Court order legalizing same-sex marriage, so on Thursday a federal judge held her in contempt and remanded her to custody.

During the hearing, one witness told the court that Davis had denied her a marriage license three times, and when Davis took the stand, the clerk explained that she could not issue the licenses because of her religious beliefs.

American Civil liberties Union attorneys argued in a motion filed Monday that Davis "continues to collect compensation from the Commonwealth for duties she fails to perform."

They said they didn't want her to be jailed as punishment, but rather, the attorneys asked the court to "impose financial penalties sufficiently serious and increasingly onerous" to make her comply with the high court's order.

U.S. District Judge David Bunning, however, apparently felt she deserved jail time, but he also told her she could avoid being incarcerated by complying with the Supreme Court order and telling her deputy clerks to do the same.

Celebrations and protests erupted outside the courthouse when those who attended the hearing exited the courtroom with news of the decision.



Davis, an Apostolic Christian who says she has a sincere religious objection to same-sex marriage, has refused to issue any marriage licenses since the Supreme Court decision in June legalizing same-sex marriage.

In court documents filed Wednesday, her attorneys argue that she shouldn't be held in contempt. Instead, they argued, there are alternatives that would allow couples to get marriage licenses in Rowan County without going against Davis' religious beliefs.

Among the options they offered were allowing other officials to issue marriage licenses in the county, distributing marriage licenses at the state level or changing marriage license forms to remove Davis' name.

A seat inside the courtroom was a hot ticket. Before the session began, more than 100 people were turned away from Bunning's courtroom, which holds 300 people. A federal law enforcement source told CNN that because of the controversy surrounding the case, Bunning was provided with a security escort on his way into work Thursday.



'Respect the law; do your job!'


A large crowd, leaning mostly in support of Davis, gathered outside the courthouse before the hearing, many carrying signs. "Jesus Saves" read one, while another pointed passersby to the Bible's Acts 5:29, which quotes Peter and other apostles saying, "We must obey God rather than human beings!"

Lana Bailey of Worthington, about a 20-minute drive northwest of Ashland, brought signs as well, both of which seemed to address Davis: "My gay friends pay taxes which helps pay you... right??" and "Respect the law; do your job!"

"I'm here to support equal rights for all," she said. "It's just called respect. I don't understand why we're having this. Why are we spending money on this? ... If you can't do your job then you need to step down. You need to resign."

Jason Porter, a pastor at Ashland's Gospel Light Baptist Church, spoke for the other side and said he wasn't at the courthouse "to bash people's decisions and lifestyles," but he worried that if people were allowed to continue doing whatever they want to do, "the floodgates will open to other areas of polygamy."

He did not elaborate on how same-sex marriage was akin to polygamy, which is the act of having multiple spouses. Polygamy is illegal in every state.

Echoing those who cited Acts 5:29, he said he felt Davis had a right to refuse to issue the marriage license and, waving his Bible, he told CNN he bore no hatred toward gay couples and is merely standing "for the truths of my God's word."

"I just know the destruction that this brings. As a pastor, I see the background. I see the broken families. I see the AIDS. I see the folks dying of diseases and the brokenness of relationships," he said.


Lawyers: Issuing licenses 'violates her conscience'


Two other county clerks in Kentucky are also refusing to issue same-sex marriage licenses, according to a statement on Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear's website.

Bunning ordered Davis to resume the issuing of marriage licenses on August 12. Monday night, the Supreme Court denied an emergency application from Davis, who asked that Bunning's order be put on hold pending appeal.

In a statement released Tuesday, Davis, a Democrat, said she has received death threats but intends to continue to serve as the county clerk -- a position she was elected to fill in November.

In court papers, attorneys for Davis argued that she is unable to comply with the court orders because issuing same-sex marriage licenses "irreparably and irreversibly violates her conscience."

Finding her in contempt of court, they argued in the motion filed Wednesday, also would "substantially burden Davis' religious exercise."

Related: Court clerk who won't issue marriage licenses has been divorced three times

But some scoff at the clerk, suggesting she's a hypocrite because she's been divorced three times.

Davis said she's a different person now since becoming a Christian four years ago.

"I am not perfect," she said in a statement. "No one is. But I am forgiven."

The ACLU attorneys, who represent two same-sex couples and two opposite-sex couples who want to get married in Rowan County, argued that Davis has no legal basis to avoid performing her duties as a government clerk.

And a federal prosecutor said it's time for Davis and her county to comply.

"Government officials are free to disagree with the law, but not disobey it," U.S. Attorney Kerry B. Harvey said in a statement. "The County Clerk has presented her position through the federal court system, all of the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. It is time for the Clerk and the County to follow the law."

CNN's Alexandra Field, Ariane de Vogue and Jeremy Diamond contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/03/politics/kentucky-clerk-same-sex-marriage-kim-davis/

good.

she works for the government, and as such, the religious crap is irrelevant. she isn't a private sector employee, she works for the state, and must abide by the law of the land, not the law of the bible as it pertains to her job.

Don't wanna abide by the government? don't get paid by them.

JC

A sinner gets what a sinner gets.

First, I have admitted to being a sinner.
Second, as a Christian, I question you for continually claiming to be a Christian and then posting in support of sin as being just fine. You support Gay marriage and never speak against homosexual sex which you know God forbids. You ridicule Christians who take a stand for Christ. You mislead the unsaved into thinking they can continue in sin and be just fine with God.

You think I am just being an arse but I am trying to get you to see the problem in your presentation of God's Word.
Pick one master and serve Him well but first do no harm.

She'll win the lawsuit.

If this is any indicator lol

What the hell - of course you believe that (e.g. in every context involving unions)... I've seen your other posts!

“When America was at war and its own existence was in question, America never required the conscientious objector to pull the trigger,” Ostrander said. “In the same way, government should do its best to accommodate all citizens with their religious liberties.”

Since this topic is basically devoid of facts:

1.) She is an elected official, so she can't be fired, unless she is either impeached by the legislature, or tried and convicted of official misconduct.

2.) She doesn't have to issue gay marriage licenses, she could get out of jail at any point by resigning her office (I fail to see how resigning is against her religious beliefs?)

3.) It was obvious from the start that she was going to lose this case (judges at every level shot it down unanimously, even Scalia didn't waste any breath complaining about it). Honestly, the lawyers telling her to do this are committing borderline malpractice.


I think I'm going to become a quaker and then move to Texas, and get a job issuing gun licenses, and just start turning them down because I'm a pacifist. We'll see how long the religious right supports me then

What I promote is that people aren't discriminated against or persecuted by others. I believe that is a very Christian concept. I have voiced my opinion that I believe gay marriage is a sin. You see this as one and the same. I see it as two separate issues.

Two consenting adults have the right to do as they please in our nation within the law. When the law includes discrimination to interfere with the rights of others, that law is wrong.

The decisions people make will be answered to by God, not the law of man. What the law did was to prevent man from making those decisions legally. what God does is judge the decisions we make. The law never stopped the sin. It only allowed people to discriminate against a certain group of sinners.

Now if you don't understand the difference, that's fine. But using the beliefs you find within the Bible to discredit what I find the truth to be in the Bible is not what I believe lies within Christianity. The Christian faith has many Churches and religions within it. I don't try to say that everyone who does not believe exactly as I do will fall under the wrath of God. What I derive from your posts is that you believe otherwise.

I don't believe trying to force feed people day in and day out to be a constructive way to bring people to Christianity. I don't believe having little to no tact in discussions does anything to support or build Christianity.

As far as you being an arse? I believe you purposefully use degrading and insulting comments in your posts. I don't believe that to help bring people to Christianity or promote good discussion. You can label that anything you choose.

ok

My religion says that I shouldn't wear clothing, and that I must kill a child every Thursday. Should the government accommodate my religious liberty?

Lmao 40 confirmed that he would kill a cat before he quit.

Why should they have to go out of their way because this woman refuses to do her job? And it's not just gays. She's refusing to be issue licenses to straight people. Should the entire county just keep paying her to sit on her ass and leech off the taxpayers, driving out to other counties to get marriage licenses? Furthermore, she's currently stealing a paycheck. She's making $80k a year and refuses to do the job she is paid to do, which is theft. And yet somehow that doesn't strike her as immoral.

More libby lies.

So you didn't just say you wouldn't quit because you had to kill kitties? You would rather be fired instead?

No. I will pray for reading comprehension and posting skills
for you since you can't comprehend what I said and you only
post part of my quote to serve your libby lies.

What I actually said...

If you have been working at your job for many years and feeding your family and paying your bills when suddenly
your employer announces you are required to kill a kitten
each day at the beginning of work, you think you should be
forced to disrupt everything in your life by suddenly walking
away from your job???

I might say no, I won't kill kittens, don't like it? Fire me!

You can also view it like this: She is an elected official who was elected to do her job of helping men and women get married. The actual law has not been changed. The supreme court does not have the authority to write new laws. They can only determine if a law is unconstitutional or not. There is nothing in the constitution that allows for taking away a State's right to determine marriage laws. Nothing.

The people who ELECTED this clerk elected her to marry only men to women. Nothing else. She is doing her job faithfully by performing her duties in the way she was elected to do them.

If they are going to change the job she was elected to do then they need to hold a new special election. If people don't like how she is performing her job they can choose not to reelect her.

If it comes down to it the county can always shut down the office and refuse to fund it if their local community doesn't want to issue these kind of licences for homosexuals.

Either way I think the woman IS doing her job in the manner she was elected to do it. I also think she is being very brave to stand up for her beliefs.

In your scenario, your employer would be requiring you to break the law. You could sue, and you would win, as an employer can't compel you to break the law. In the case of Kim Davis, it's the opposite. She is breaking the law in her refusal to follow court orders. She is being asked to comply with the law, and is refusing to do so.