DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The dreaded, pre-mature, useless 53 man roster prediction

I like it...leaves us light at ILB...Bademosi is a victim of an improving team.

Nelson/James/Poyer...Nelson has been injured and James has flashed. I think 2 of these 3 make it - as do you - but I wouldn't be surprised if Nelson gets one of those spots. Poyer showed me zip in pre-season.

If any of your 'makes' are incorrect, it would be a surprise. Nice work.

That makes absolutely no sense. Those are our two best receivers.

cfrs15 you've been pretty critical of the receiver staff. For the most part, I understand from a statistical viewpoint you are correct.

Yes, on paper, Browns receives are average at best. Yes, you can label it an issue to poor QB play.

In my opinion, I think fans grossly overvalue individuals at same time undervaluing the unit. All good receiving teams have a complete corp built around an individual.

It is sad Gordon ran into trouble last year. I truly believe Browns have a decent cast to showcase Gordon. Bowe is a poor mans replacement for Gordon, and I think Pryor can be a suitable backup.

This season I think Browns will struggle against teams with a good secondary unit. Browns will do well against most teams. Why? There are few teams who can account for both speed and height. If Cleveland can show any kind of run game, teams won't have the luxury dropping LBs into coverage. RBs added to the passing game will also make it difficult. My biggest concern QBs inexperience making legitimate passes downfield. We will see balls thrown but it will be because of blown coverage. Benjamin, Hawkins, and Gabriel are more than capable gaining a step on a defender catching a well placed 40+ yard pass. The lack of this threat limits this offense from being a good passing team.

I LOVE Hawkins and Gabriel, I think they are both great. Hartline is fine. So is Benjamin. My biggest quibble is signing Bowe and [pretty much] ignoring the position in the draft. I also don't have the same view of Pryor as many people on here.

I think we have small, quick receivers by design. DBs can't be as physical as they used to be, this limits their ability to slow down the smaller quicker guys (Gabriel, Hawkins). If our QB was better I would guess that both of our small guys would have 1000 yards or more. They are very good. I think Gabriel can become a legit #1 wide receiver.

Maybe I have been overstating my discontent with the wide receiver group, I am happy with our two best guys.

THIS...legit!! Good observation. Watch DBs lay some some serious wood after the catch.

Good tall receivers are simply hard finding whether in FA or in the draft. I can't argue against Browns needing an upgrade over Bowe. Find any rookie receiver with enough skills to replace Bowe. I think it is why Farmer went with Mayle. If a project, might as well invest a middle round. He did well getting Pryor another high reward low risk project. Simply look how long it took Dez Bryant. Farmer already drafted two tough projects last year. He could be out of work before those two produce!

No they're not. Maybe Hawk qualifies as one of the best two. And, like I said, I'm likely wrong, but it's possible one of them gets cut.

No.

Yeah, an observation that I never would of thought of. I can totally understand how the new rules on the defense and all the jazz would benefit the smaller, faster WRs.

That is a legit observation indeed.

Taylor Gabriel had 621 yards last year as an undrafted free agent. He should have had more, I remember specific plays where Hoyer missed him when he was wide open (a couple of them he dove to catch but they should have been TDs).

Also important, Gabriel is on a undrafted free agent contract. He is making $510000 this year and only $600000 next year before becoming a restricted free agent.

There is a 0% chance either Hawkins or Gabriel gets cut.

I stole it.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...eceivers-in-nfl

The only problem with that observation is that we gained 4 WR's. Bowe, Hartline, Mayle and Pryor. Every one of them is 6'2" plus.

Look at all of the leading WR's in the league. How many are less than 6'2" in height?

Sometimes points look good on paper. But when you look at the facts, it's obvious the entire league prefers taller, more physical WR's. There's a reason for that.

We went one year with Smurfs. After that, this FO added 4 WR's. All were 6'2" or taller. Wonder why? Because you need some variety of size and speed among your WR's.

Antonio Brown (1st), Emmanuel Sanders (5th), T.Y. Hilton (6th), Golden Tate (7th), Odell Beckham (10th), Randall Cobb (11th), DeSean Jackson (13th), and Steve Smith (17th) would all like to have a word with you.

(Those numbers next the receivers names are where they placed in yardage last year. All of them are six feet or under.)

j/c

What positions do you see most likely to get an upgrade from a player not on the team today?

Safety? OL depth? QB?

I just went back and re-read my thread-opening post. Interesting how developments have changed my mind.

Tight end could be interesting. I don't know who will be cut, but Barnidge, Dray, and Housler are not impressive at all.

We could use some offensive line depth.

Overall, I don't see us picking up too many guys from other teams. We are set at a lot of positions (especially on defense). Safety we have four guys who I don't hate seeing on the field (Whitner, Gipson, Poyer, and Campbell).

I would guess that we pick up some other teams young QB and try to stash them on our practice squad. I am not sure Devlin is eligible.

8 out of 20. You do realize that's less than 50% right?

That's exactly why I said you need a mix of both size and speed. Using your own numbers, you can see the mix of size and speed make up the top 20.

it's also 7 / 13, which is more than 50%, so there's that.

Solomon Wilcots just said on Browns radio network that after talking to coaches, Dwayne Bowe needs to deliver tonight to make roster

https://twitter.com/SportsBoyTony/status/639540026443964420?lang=en

Is Dwayne Bowe on the Browns’ roster bubble?

The Browns signed Dwayne Bowe to a two-year deal last March that included $9 million guaranteed. That should, ahem, guarantee Bowe a roster spot despite the soon to be 31-year old wide receiver missing nearly three weeks of training camp with a sore hamstring and not catching a preseason pass from starting quarterback Josh McCown.

But the Browns have a crowded receiving corps despite not having a true No. 1 receiver, and entering Thursday night’s preseason finale there’s still some uncertainty as to which receivers will make the final roster.

Solomon Wilcots, who works for NFL Network but is paid by the Browns to call preseason games on Cleveland television, appeared on the team’s official pregame radio show Thursday afternoon and hinted that Bowe is not a lock to make the roster.

“He needs to deliver (tonight),” Wilcots said. “After talking to the coaches he needs to show up tonight to be a part of the 53-man roster (this weekend).”

Wilcots didn’t say which coaches to whom he’d spoken, but his words at very least make for an interesting discussion. The Browns also have a decision coming on Terrelle Pryor, who’s trying to transition from quarterback to wide receiver but has yet to play in a preseason game.

Pryor is supposed to play in the preseason finale, but Browns coach Mike Pettine said this week that Pryor doesn’t necessarily have to play to make the 53-man roster.

Brian Hartline, another veteran receiver acquired in the offseason, is going to make the team. Andrew Hawkins and return specialist Travis Benjamin are going to make the team, too. Second-year receiver Taylor Gabriel and Bowe probably make the team, but fourth-round rookie Vince Mayle has had a tough camp.

Pryor is the wildcard and Marlon Moore is listed as a wide receiver but last year was a core special teams player. So, that’s eight players for six or seven spots — and seven probably only make it if Moore makes it.

The Browns earlier this week released defensive tackle Phil Taylor despite Taylor having more than $5.4 million guaranteed. Taylor had offseason knee surgery and might not be healthy enough to play this season.

Another expensive cut seems unlikely, but what Wilcots said at least adds a little intrigue to Thursday night’s preseason finale and the roster moves that will come in the 30 or so hours that follow.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/03/is-dwayne-bowe-on-the-browns-roster-bubble/

Ideally you'd like to have a receiver who is big and fast. But the league is turning in a direction that allows smaller receivers to have a lot of success. A team can be fine without having big receivers.

Good find and thanks for posting it. That has me reconsidering my take on "undersized" WRs.

You made an excellent point earlier, but I'm with Pitt on this one. You must have a mix. Teams do have good CBs. Having a mix of height and speed takes advantage of most. Lastly, smurfs struggle in the red zone. I wish I had numbers to back it. Note I didn't say can't "struggle."

Where did I say I only wanted small receivers?

Relax, have a cold beverage, I'm not asking you to agree.

You're leading the charge it doesn't matter. Where did I say you're wrong? I think it does matter. We disagree! I'm sure it won't be the only time!!

PittDawg's "point" was that there are very few smaller receivers on the leaderboard. I proved that he was wrong. As clevesteve pointed out, seven out of thirteen of the top receivers in the league were six feet or under.

I also said that if given the choice, I would take a tall fast receiver or a short fast receiver (given they were equal in most other areas).

You do not need to have a "good mix" to be successful. It is possible to win with short wide receivers.

Having guys on your roster because "size" is a horrible reason. Keep the most talented guys and you should be golden (eventually).

This discussion has not involved tight ends at all, I would like to add that most teams that have smaller receivers also have a semi-successful pass catching tight end. That is something this team currently does not have.

Why not keep Landon Feichter and cut Justin Gilbert.

With Williams, and Williams, and Haden, as pseudo starters, and Desir and Kendall James as backups...

Feichter fits in as another backup just as well as Justin Gilbert.

I cn't take the problems nymore. !

Problems : I would bring in every O Lineman that is cut next week ..lol

I think that Bademosi makes it over Poyer. Pettine has spoken about him in future tense on special teams, so I think he's here.

I think that Bibbs may go on the PS, with Housler getting the spot over him .... but that could go either way.

I think that Winn is gone.

Carder could be on the Bubble if we keep 3 QB on the roster, and keep Lewis. He could also be out if we keep Poyer, and 11 DB instead of 10.

I actually just did a spreadsheet ..... so let me transfer my thoughts ...

Bleh. Didn't work well .... blew out the screen ...... but the essence is here.


Position Total at Position
QB 2 McCown Manziel
RB 4 Crowell West Johnson Draughns
FB 1 M. Johnson
TE 3 Barnidge Dray Housler
WR 7 Bowe Hartline Gabriel Hawkins Benjamin Moore Pryor
OL 8 Thomas Bitonio Mack Greco Schwartz Erving Miller McDonald
DL 7 A. Bryant D. Bryant Cooper Hughes Meder Shelton Starks
LB 8 Dansby Kruger Kirksey Mingo Orchard Robertson Solomon Carder
DB 8 Haden T. Williams K. Williams Whitner Gipson Gilbert Desir Bademosi Campbell Gaines
LS 1 Hughlett
P 1 Lee
K 1 Coons
Total on roster 53


Practice Squad: QB Devlin, TE Bibbs, WR Lenz, WR Mayle, DL Wynn, LB Pullard, DB K. James

After the preseason Bibbs had, there is no way he makes it to our practice squad.

What did other teams really see?

Game 1: 3 catches for 29 yards.
Game 2: 2 catches for 14 yards.
Game 3: 1 catch for 7 yards.
Game 4: 1 catch for 4 yards.

I think that he goes to the practice squad.

On the other hand ..... he might make the team. It depends on what the coaches want at the position. Housler is a Jordan Cameron type TE, with speed to burn down the middle of the field. That is something that none of the other TE have.

In all honesty, i can see it going either way. My gut, which, admittedly, is not having a very good night right now, says Housler makes the team, and Bibbs goes on the PS.

I think Barnidge or Dray is cut and we keep both Housler and Bibbs. We are short on playmakers at the skill positions.

ST 3 spots Coons, Lee, Hughlett

RB 3 Duke, Crow, West
FB 1 Johnson
QB 2 McCown, Johnny
OL 7 Joe Thomas, Bitonio, Mack, Schwartz, Erving and Miller
TE 4 Dray, Barnidge, Housler, Bibbs
WR 6 hartline, Gabriel, Benji, Hawk, Lenz, Pryor

DL 8 Shelton, Desmond Bryant, Cooper, Starks, Hughes, Meder, Winn, Armonty Bryant

LB 10 all make it
DB 9 Haden, truman Williams, Whitner, Kwaun williams, Gilbert, Desirre, Campbell, Bademosi, Gaines

I think Pettine already confirmed Bowe is on the roster in last night's post game comments. Could be wrong.

Other comments:

- Losing Winn would be a dumb move.
- Lenz may push out Moore, who has done nothing at WR. Plus I like Bademosi over Moore in ST.
- Poyer should be cut.

If we keep Bowe it means we cut one of these, Winn, Bibbs, Lenz or Pryor. We will see but seeing how Bowe has given no effort the last 2 weeks. I wouldnt keep him over someone busting their ass. I think we are fine without him.

Pretty sure Lenz made it over Pryor last night, and Painter is probably our 8th best lineman over Miller and company. Bademosi is on, can tell by him not playing, probably over James. Pullard might have made it last night.

Bibbs will be on our 53. Not even worthy of debate. Mayle to PS or cut.

Greco?

Of course Greco. Btw teams don't usually go with 4 TE, do they?

I think as do you, that Lenz made the roster. However, I do not believe at Pryor's expense, rather Moore may be the odd man out...

I included Grecco mentally lol he is one of the 7. Grecco has been our best Offensive linemen this preseason. Miller being a rookie I could see him going to PS and us keeping a vet over him but none of these backups have really impressed.