DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Transgender Students in School Bathrooms

I'd like to remind you all that there are more important things than safety and we all know that.

I mean exactly what I wrote.

Just because it can be done with no one around, doesn't mean it should be the norm.

What I mean is simple. In a public space with people around, in current times, if a man gets up and walks into a woman's restrooms, it will often draw suspicion, and therefore is a deterrent.

If it were perfectly normal every day thing for a man to enter, the women's restroom, then people wouldn't make such notice, and it becomes less of a deterrent.

Consider the alarm at the exit to stores or cars in the parking lot. It used to get peoples attention, and everyone would turn to look who set it off. Now they go off so often that people ignore it when it goes off. Heck, I've seen the store employees completely oblivious to it.

Nothing is a perfect solution to bad things happening, but it makes even less sense to make it easier for evil to carry out its deeds.

Unless we are all willing to be implanted with RFID chips at birth, and that chip will unlock the correct door for us.

/queue the 1984 movie references

I mean, I was more making fun of YTown's stance that we need to keep everyone safe at all time. It's stupid. That's the entire point of the constitution. That's why we broke free from Britain. It's important that we maintain freedom over safety. There's nothing wrong with a transperson going into the restroom. Transpeople will not assault you in the bathroom. It doesn't make sense to. This girl is 17 years old. She's been identifying since as a girl since she was 13. She's been identifying as a girl for 4 years and has yet to assault her classmates. Honestly, it's much safer and easier for a sexual predator to just walk into a bathroom and sexually assault someone. It'd be much easier for the police to find a person in drag than it would be to find a person in khakis and a polo. I'm not sure if commentators in this thread are just letting their imaginations run wild on them or are using this example as a thinly veiled rejection of transgendered people. From a side that uses personal responsibility for their main arguments, who parrot the narrative "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." can't see that a ban on transgendered people in restrooms won't stop someone from sexually assaulting someone else. Transgendered people just trying to pee don't sexually people, sick deviants sexually assault people.

He's a boy. Not a girl. It's neat and all that he "identifies" as a girl, but that doesn't make it so. I identify as a millionaire - but am I?

I agree with you in many way..

But as I asked earlier in this thread.

How do you tell the difference between a transgender and a cross dresser or drag queen.

When the only difference between them being identified as a man is the clothes and make-up, then how do we determine whether or not they should or should not be allowed to use women's facilities?

There has to be a line somewhere. Otherwise anyone can throw on a wig and use the women's restroom, they are much cleaner in most cases.

Any guy could use the woman's restroom. I just did it the other month. Was in a rush, new to a building, dimly lit, and I didn't pay attention to the sign. So I walked in, saw there were no urinals and figured I already came this far (I really had to go); I might as well. Walked out. Washed my hands and left. No one stopped me during any of it. Does anyone see a real problem with me doing any of that? Granted, it wasn't my proudest moment, but I didn't feel entirely wrong about it.

I just peed. That's what people use bathrooms. Including transpeople. There's been zero cases of sexual assault done in bathrooms in many states. This isn't a problem. We just made up a fake problem and now have a rule that makes it muddier for transpeople to operate in life.



It would be like saying that since commercial aircrafts are not equipped in the slightest to fight a dragon that they should no longer be able to be flown.

It works for 40 and Donald Trump certainly lies about his net worth. I'm sure it could work for you.

So you used the womens restroom, big deal, that is not what I asked.

I agreed anyone COULD, and may at anytime, but in a busy public place, that might draw some attention, especially if I'm standing outside waiting on my daughter or wife and see you go in.

See what I am saying?

You went into an empty women's restroom and use it, no big deal. What if a woman was in there? Would you have continued to go about your relieving yourself? How do you think the woman would feel? Think she might be concerned for her safety?

I'm tired of this. Here is a picture of a transperson going into their original bathroom.



He literally goes in there when people are inside. What are you going to say to him(her?) when (s)he goes in there.

This isn't a problem.

I'm going to give him/her your phone number since you keep posting his/her picture, I assume you're infatuated.


Have a good weekend.

Exactly. I point out an exact description of this hypothetical situation you're proposing to me and I get no response. This is my problem. When you still ignore this, it really makes me wonder if these bathroom fights are really thinly veiled transphobia. It's sad to see.


Have a good weekend too. I hope you enjoying opening weekend.

You obviously are not a father of a daughter.

I would never allow my daughter to have attended a school which allowed this. I would venture to say if you ever have a daughter, you would feel the same way. I would never have subjected my daughter to that as a child or teenager.

Once she's an adult, that's her choice. But as a father it would be my job to protect her and to see that she not be subjected to things that would offend or shock her in a public setting.

You're right. I don't have paranoia.

No, where I'm right is that you are not a father to a daughter.

Funny how people on one hand say that people can't understand their plight because they haven't experienced it, then on the other hand can claim they understand a situation they have no experience with.

When you have a daughter of school age, get back to me on her having to face penises in her bathroom at school. Until then, you really have no idea.

"I agreed anyone COULD, and may at anytime," Is exactly what I wrote. I even agreed with you in a post before that. And I explained why allowing anyone of any gender to go into any restroom they wish at any time is not that great of an idea.


I agree that the transgender person is probably not the threat, BUT, where is the line between transgender, cross dress, drag queen or lunatic?

While you accuse me of not answering you, although I did, maybe not in a manner you took it as an answer, but have you answered my question yet?

Actually, you have a point. That guy looks more like a guy than most.

Consequently, I, too, should be able to use any restroom I want. Why? Because I "identify" with having to go to the bathroom, consequently, I should be able to use any restroom I want. If it happens to be the women's room, and they complain, well, THEY are the ones with the problem, right?

See? Take the "qualifier" of transgender out of it.

I was born and raised in Troy, OH and I'm shocked they are one of the 1st to do this considering it's a quite conservative city. That being said this whole gender neutral bathroom is a slippery slope. I think we've evolved enough now to know that people know if they are gay/Trans before they become an adult. Those deserve rights. My only concern is the kids who think they can be shifty and go into the opposite bathroom and claim it's their preference when they're just trying to further their own agenda (if you smell what I'm cookin)

You guys are missing the whole point, have you ever seen the lines
at the ladies room at most gatherings? You want no part of that!
Women would love to use the men's room instead of waiting in those
lines! Save yourselves while you still can!

j/c:

A logical solution can not be found to these situations as
long as the Minority has unlimited Lawyers paid for with
taxpayer money. The school, the business, and even the rest of us do not have the unlimited funds to put up a long fight in
a court of law. We risk losing everything.

The Minority rules over the Majority in this Nation because the Minority has the ACLU and many other taxpayer funded lawyers to fight into eternity for the one, while the rest
of society must fend for itself.

Bingo. While I can understand empathy he is expressing for transgendered people, there is a complete lack of empathy displayed for daughters/fathers. Rather it hovers over to condescension by claiming we are paranoid.

Unreal.

I hope someone will step up to protect the rights of these girls to not be subjected to this perverted behavior. Enough is enough. Not protecting these girls when it's their job is exactly what can lead to mob violence. Fathers will go to extraordinary lengths to protect their daughters.

There is a lack of empathy because there have been 0 problems of this. It's like seeing your neighbor do something mysterious and now you want to stalk him. This all revolves around a hypothetical situation that hasn't happened yet and probably won't happen. If this was a problem then my opinion would change.

We already have unisex bathrooms in some places. You could also take the qualifier of being transgender out of it... But that's what we're debating.

From a strictly visual standpoint, I'm not sure you always can... at least if you're comparing a cross-dresser with a pre-op/pre (or early hormonal) transgender person.

As someone who has known both types of people, I can tell you that there ARE definite distinctions between them.

A cross-dresser is typically a gay male who has no desire to be anything else. He plays the 'dressup' game because he likes the glamour, the attention, as a means of self-expression, etc... but at the end of the day, he's completely comfortable with being a gay male, and lives his life that way- once the wigs, falsies, fake nails and dresses go back into his wardrobe.

The transgender individual is another person altogether. These are people who have been forced to live a life that is in total conflict with the core of who they are. They are desperate enough to be what they should have always been, that they voluntarily sign on for years of hormonal treatments, psychotherapy, emotional counseling, gender-reassignment protocols and more... in an attempt to assume the identity they always felt they should have had. As the transgender male moves through the various phases of his transition, the hormonal treatments begin to separate him from the gay male cross-dresser both visually and behaviorally. It becomes easier to tell the two apart... if you've actually known folks from both groups.

They are two very different things... and are emblematic of just how many (very real) differences truly do exist between them.

In other words: The difference ain't in the junk. The difference is in the identity of the person who's hauling the junk around. One has a Johnson that only points 'True North' when men are around. Women (and girls) in a public bathroom have absolutely nothing to fear from him.

The other is in the process of eliminating his/her junk entirely, because its very presence offends the person who lives at the heart of that conflicted physical shell. Again... women (and girls) in a public bathrooms have absolutely nothing to fear from him, either. There simply is NO physical/sexual danger component in either of these scenarios.

In either case... "Our Wimmin Folk" are in less danger from either of them than they are from us heteromales... on a daily basis. BANK THAT.


There is also something else at work in scenarios like these that not many folks know about:

A committed transgender candidate must not only undergo years of intensive counseling/therapy, but must also commit to living an extended period of time as the gender they wish to assume BEFORE THEY ARE OK'D TO UNDERGO SURGERY. This can be anywhere from 1 to 3 years before they are allowed to take the 'final step(s).' And yes- that means "going to the bathroom," as well as everything else.

I can tell you from a personal friendship I had: these people don't just get up one day, say to themselves, "I feel like a girl" and get an operation 3 weeks later. It's a long and drawn-out process for a reason... because the final results are irreversible.

I don't know what stage this young person is in, nor do I know how sincere he is in making a full transition... but it's entirely possible that he's in the process of 'following his steps'... and this (now public) situation is residual fallout. It could also be that this individual simply wants "their 15 minutes"- and we're all just glomming onto someone's personal ego-ride. If the latter is the case- and he's just another 'post-modern attention-seeker', then h's doing harm to the cause of sincere, committed transgender people.


_________

I've stayed out of this convo until now, because it just cuts too close to the bone for me.

I lost two friends on the same day in June of 2014 to brain cancer: Sandra, who I only had the pleasure of knowing for about 4-5 years... and Stewart, whom I had known since the mid- '90's. Yes... they were one and the same (...but not- do you know what I mean?) I'm still grieving over the loss of a truly wonderful, talented, and loving person... and It's really hard even now to type out this post. The loss still hurts like hell in my soul. I still, very deeply- miss My Friend.

____________

Anatomically speaking, we may never be able to answer the question you asked, My Dawg... but I also submit that that this story is just another example of a bigger question is now being raised in many areas of Life/existence other than just "gender identity":


"Who am I? How (and where) do I fit in the universe?"


It causes confusion and discord... but it's also the essential component behind why we now know the Earth isn't flat. It's painful, but essential... because as a species, we know no other way. It's in our DNA.

The transgender phenomenon isn't going away. It's an established component of our new reality- and we're going to have to find reasonable, 'common sense'-based ways to deal with it. I confess I don't have answers... it's all still new to me, too.

What I DO know is that Human Beings are the most adaptable species that has ever trod this planet to date. They have managed countless changes in the 100K-200K years they've been on the planet... and can adapt to this.

All it will take- is time.

Congrats! You figured me out! I tried so hard to hide the fact that this was about transgenders and bathrooms by titling the thread "Transgender Students in School Bathorooms," posting an article about a transgender wanting to use the girls' locker room, and using the words "transgender" and "bathroom" in every post.

Really, what did you think this thread was about? I've never said it was about anything else. You are the one that keeps going off topic about the abuse of women.

But seriously, congrats! I know it must have been hard for you to figure that out.

You and CHSDawg are the ones that keep bringing up the unrelated topic of threats to girls (like I said, deflecting). That has nothing to do with this...Even if you could prove that kid in this story would never pose a threat to a girl, (s)he still shouldn't be in the girls' locker room when a gender-neutral changing room is available.

That would be fine, if you actually brought up issues that were related to transgenders and bathroom/locker rooms, like what this thread is about. However, you keep bringing up threats to girls, even though it isn't related at all.

It's like me saying (back in 2000 when texting and driving was still legal) "Texting while driving should be illegal," and you replying "But people drive drunk all the time! Why aren't you outraged about that?" You see how that isn't really related to the original topic at all? That is what you are trying to say right now.

Some relevant issues that you could talk about that actually involve transgenders and bathrooms:
Should a biological male who identifies as a girl be able able to play HS sports as a girl?
Why are women's' restrooms usually cleaner then men's restrooms?

See how those actually relate to the topic, unlike the issues you keep bring up?

And yes, it is a pretty simple issue. Threats to girls have nothing to do with it.

So if how you Identify is who you are, why all the fuss over this...

Ex-NAACP leader Rachel Dolezal: 'I identify as black'

Actually I've said time and time again that she shouldn't be allowed in the changing room/locker room. However, the bathroom is another thing.

Locker room, bathroom, its the same thing. Anywhere a young female is exposing her privates is not a place for a penis to be flashed at her against her will. PERIOD.

Wow. Please remind me to never share a bathroom with you if that's what you think is happening in there.

Lol sounds good to me =) I hate using a public restroom to begin with ^^ I guarantee you though I see a man coming out of the restroom my daughters are using that I am calling the cops on his arse if I can restrain myself from beating his arse to a pulp =)

If you feel the need to assault someone after they use the restroom then that's between you, them and your God.

I am almost to the point where I say let him use it... HS girls are ruthless... they would probably do more psychological damage teasing him then he would get anywhere else.... they show no mercy

Anyone who has had a daughter on a cheer squad or a drill team probably has some idea what I mean.

I've seen many uni sex bathrooms.

They are for 1 person at a time. At least, the ones I have seen are.

i would hope you would not need THAT many unisex bathrooms to take care of those needs. Still to put them into a prebuilt school also means probably the elimination of a classroom or two ... so I could see some taxpayers saying too bad and deal with being the way your parents created you ...

No.

I've been separating the girls honor, dignity, etc. as stated in many of the responses in this thread because many of the responses are about whether or not transgenders should be considered legitimate and socially acceptable.

Some have talked about the kid's refusing to use the gender neutral restroom. I understand that frustration. When it was suggested that I was an illiterate liar for stating that religious groups are demanding that even gender neutral bathrooms NOT be provided I posted factual written evidence and the response was I was still an illiterate liar.

A lot of the responses have tried to claim concern for girls. To me that's grasping at straws.

If this event had been left to the girls the kid wouldn't be using their restroom. That's why I don't think this about concern for girls.

If my daughters had ever expressed fear of a boy who thought he was a girl I would have been disappointed. I'm sure those here who have sons would be disappointed also. If the school failed to provide safe and secure restrooms for all of the students I would be concerned.

My girls were taught when to be concerned about boys. Our concern was when they got into a car with ANY boy or even their friends. If they asked to go to an unsupervised party the response was always, "Hell no!". The anxiety wad real when we stayed up by the phone until they got home and we asked how the evening went.

I've consistently suggested that this thread just focus on transgenders because most of the posts were already doing that. I still don't believe the concerns of most who have been vocal, either on this board or the media, have any real concern for the girls.

I've stated if there was real concern then why is it only expressed for this event?

Separate the 2 issues, concern for girls and opinions of transgenders, and see which one becomes a hot issue.

If the transgender thread isn't the longest then it's because people can't grasp at straws claiming concern for girls.

I think that the posters here do have real concern for the girls, and it's eating you up that you can't prove otherwise. Accusing others of grasping at straws is hilarious.

That is the only opinion that really matters. The girls don't WANT a penis in their changing room or bathroom. Period.

Why is that so unreasonable to you? It makes no sense.

Sure there are kids who are messed up with all kinds of mental disorders that we deal with. Transgender is a label for one of them. The simple fact is that you can't accommodate everyone. The girls of a school have a right to not have a penis thrown in their face in a place they should feel safe from that sort of thing. A transgender's mental disorder does not trump the rights of those girls in the school to feel safe.

We can say sorry you feel confused about yourself but because you have a penis you can't go into the girl's locker room. At best we can let you have access to a unisex room if you prefer that over dressing around other boys with a penis. Those are your choices. End of story.

Yep. I don't see why girls should have to dress and shower with someone who has male genitals.

We worry so much about the "right" of one person, that we forget that the rest of the people in that school have rights as well. They made accommodation for this boy to change in private, and he did not want to do so. He wanted the girls locker room, or nothing, to the extent that, when he could not use the girls' locker room, he dropped gym class. That really makes me wonder.

Laugh it up fuzzball!

I still stand by my statements and I think it's easily proved with 2 separate threads.

Maybe what's eating you is that I'm too close to the truth.