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So what if this is a different season? All past sins are forgiven? All character traits developed over the past 4 or 5 years are suddenly absolved........just because it's a "new year?"
That's what I don't get.
Then again, it's worked so well for Gerrard Warren, Ricky Williams, TO, Randy Moss, Mike Vick, Joey Porter, PacMan Jones, and Chris Henry
Now c'mon Toad, be fair...
The character traits you speak of, which affect the Browns (the only that anyone here cares about) have only occurred since BE has been on this team (2 years), not 4 or 5. And do you really think it's appropriate to put him in the same sentence as PacMan Jones, Chris Henry, and Ricky Williams? I know there are a number of people on these boards who have a good amount of respect for your insight, myself included, but don't negate that by embellishing information just to make your case against BE. 
Follow me on Twitter <a href="link" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/CoachA12</a>
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why do you call frye #9? i know that's his number but you only do it for him. just curious.
I usually just refer to him as "The Scrub", everyone has their nicknames for people. 
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He got too competitive and lashed out at the wrong time. He didn't back things up with his play at times. That was last year. This is a different season.
Gerrard Warren, Ricky Williams, TO, Randy Moss, Mike Vick, Joey Porter, PacMan Jones, and Chris Henry
Ricky Williams - drugs
Joey Porter - brought attitude and a Super Bowl
Randy Moss - Haven't heard him speak in a while
TO - 1300 yds and 13 TDs with a broken finger
PacMan Jones - thugChris Henry - Thug
Michael Vick - done nothing
Gerard Warren - spoke
Braylon Edwards, was late to a meeting - got mad because the line suckes (duh). What else did he do again?
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Braylon Edwards, was late to a meeting - got mad because the line suckes (duh). What else did he do again?
Went to the OSU Mich game against the direct orders of the team. Then told reporters that he has an "Injured" thumb to cover up the fact he wasn't starting because he flew to the game and was being punished.
Mouthed off before the pittsburg game, which we lost.
I am sure others will remember all of them.
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So what if this is a different season?  All past sins are forgiven? All character traits developed over the past 4 or 5 years are suddenly absolved........just because it's a "new year?"
That's what I don't get.
Then again, it's worked so well for Gerrard Warren, Ricky Williams, TO, Randy Moss, Mike Vick, Joey Porter, PacMan Jones, and Chris Henry
Edwards has dug his own grave on this one. He has to prove that he's not the guy from the past two seasons. He doesn't get a free pass just because it's a new year. In other words, he has a reputation that he has to disprove.
And before anyone says it, don't bother with the crap about how hard he's worked to come back from injury. That's his JOB.
And before anyone points to his charitable work, none of that means [censored] if he doesn't clean up his act on the field.
Of all those players you listed, how many chances (on average) did each of them get? How many years of constant bull did they throw at their teams before they solidified their reputation of "cancer"? It's so easy to throw out a few names and condemn Braylon with their lot, but what about those individuals that screwed up, made mistakes, then ended up transforming after them (ala Cris Carter)?
Braylon is a third-year player. Last year was the first year that any big character issues came into play in his professional career. As much as everyone downplays it, I'm sure it was incredibly difficult keeping a calm demeanor when you're a passionate player and you watch your teammates go out and suck wind every week (now, from hearing him, I'm glad he lumps himself in among the problems). Note: I'm not excusing his behavior, I'm just saying that if fans all over found ourselves yelling at the TV every week and getting upset just watching the team, I can't imagine what it was like to be a member. Obviously, he should've been more professional about his complaints, but that's something that doesn't come to all rookies right away - that comes with experience; regret and growth comes from making that initial mistake.
He's made his mistake. It IS something that he's going to have to work to erase. However, I'm not going to berate and belittle him until I see improvement - I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. As of right now, I'm not going to give him a clean slate, nor will I give him a tarnished one - this year is what defines that for me.
As I've said before, everyone deserves a second chance without their past transgressions bearing down on them. To me, this is Braylon's.
We're... we're good?
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Braylon Edwards, was late to a meeting - got mad because the line suckes (duh). What else did he do again?
Went to the OSU Mich game against the direct orders of the team. Then told reporters that he has an "Injured" thumb to cover up the fact he wasn't starting because he flew to the game and was being punished.
Mouthed off before the pittsburg game, which we lost.
I am sure others will remember all of them.
Yep, he mouthed off prior to the Pittsburgh game and had 7 catches for 137 yards. We lost because Grantham likes to play prevent D on 3rd and 20 and because the officials cheated, Frasers "penalty" was perfectly legal and clean. Edwards rose to the occasion. So did Frye and Cribbs, Wright and Holly. On top of that, it was one of our strongest games of the year until the officials cheated and took it away after Grantham was dumb and played prevent on 3rd and 20, yet you dare to blame Edwards.
He told the media he had an injured thumb, WHO CARES IF HE LIED TO THE MEDIA! THE MEDIA LIED ABOUT HIM AND WHAT HIS TANTRUM WAS ABOUT!
You let a couple things overshadow the undeniable fact he rehabbed so much that he came back 8 games early off a torn ACL. He, Winslow and Frye worked together in the off-season tirelessly to try and do their part. In this interview - EDWARDS SAID NOTHING WRONG, NOTHING AT ALL.
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Well of course not. In THIS thread,he wasn't interviewed. It's a RAC interview!  
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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He told the media he had an injured thumb, WHO CARES IF HE LIED TO THE MEDIA! THE MEDIA LIED ABOUT HIM AND WHAT HIS TANTRUM WAS ABOUT!
It's not about lying to the media, I could care less. It's about Bray acting like a baby and not wanting to won up to what he did. He knew he was dead wrong, and wouldn't own up to it, and instead lied. Not just to the media, but to us the fans.
He instead wanted to come out looking like the good guy with an "injured" thumb.
The coaching staff could have lied for him and said he was hurt, that's fine. For the player to go against the wishes of the team, then go out and tell everyone a lie to try and cover up his own idiocy is just not acceptable.
If the staff wanted to lie for him, fine. I was watching the game thinking "I wonder how hurt he is", then bam I was duped for no good reason other than to cover his own back.
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I'm stil waiting to hear how what Braylon did fits in the same conversation with the following...
Chris Henry - arrested several times for possession of drugs, DUI, and contributing to deliquency of minors; suspended from league for 8 games.
PacMan Jones - arrested several times, most recently involved in a triple homicide outside of Vegas strip club, suspended from league for one whole year.
Ricky Williams - violating league substance abuse policy, suspended from league for one whole year, failed another drug test, likely done in the nfl.
Michael Vick - involved in alleged dog-fighting ring, investigation pending.
Joey Porter - involved in altercation outside Vegas night club with Bengal Levi Jones; loud-mouthed jerk and apparent homo-phobe.
Randy Moss - walks off field during a game while with the Minnesota Vikings. Moons fans at Lambeau Field during endzone celebration. Has even said on record that doesn't play 100% when he's not happy with team.
Terrell Owens - do I even have to list the things he's done to his respective teams?
C'mon people. While I don't condone the things he's said or done while wearing the Orange & Brown, there is no way in hell Braylon Edwards should be mentioned in the preceding list. What a bunch of BS!!!!
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I am guessing your just clicking me, because I never said he mirrored their actions in anyway.
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I guess. But how come everyone is so quick to jump on someone who posts something ridiculous to support a view opposite of their own, but when someone (Toad) posts something ridiculous that supports your view, it just gets let go. Apparently, Soup (stats aside) and I are the only ones who don't think BE deserves the amount of mud being slung back and forth around these boards about him. I really think they should change the name of this message board to Dawg Haters instead of Dawg Talkers in lieu of recent threads being used as a platform for people to attack current members of the Cleveland Browns organization. It's ridiculous. Three threads have now been turned into Bash Braylon rants because people refuse to get down from their digital soapboxes and concede that people don't always live up to everyone else's standards 100% of the time. Once a guy makes a mistake or opens his mouth, he is forever branded as a detriment to this team. What really gets me is that people say until he proves himself on the field this year, his past actions still apply. But since he really CAN'T prove himself on the field for another couple of months, wouldn't it also be appropriate for everyone to reserve judgment until that time? He can't prove he'll be better, and you can't prove he won't be. End of story.
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Post deleted by Referee00
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He's already proven how he acts during the season. It's up to him to disprove it,not us. You're simply asking people to "accept he's changed without evidence of it".
And some of us want evidence to counter his past actions. What we CAN say is,UNLESS he's changed,it probably won't get better. We are in a "wait and see" mode.
But let him prove he's WORTHY of criticizing others before he does it. And don't expect people to think he's undergone some "miracaleous transformation" untill we see it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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He's already proven how he acts during the season. It's up to him to disprove it,not us. You're simply asking people to "accept he's changed without evidence of it".
And some of us want evidence to counter his past actions. What we CAN say is,UNLESS he's changed,it probably won't get better. We are in a "wait and see" mode.
But let him prove he's WORTHY of criticizing others before he does it. And don't expect people to think he's undergone some "miracaleous transformation" untill we see it.
Not EVERYONE believes he did something wrong in the first place. As long as he keeps leading our offensive productivity I could care less about anything else.
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We are in a "wait and see" mode.
Hey man, that's all I'm saying. I am cautiously optimistic about the '07 outlook for this team, including Braylon. Let's just wait and see what happens. Until then... 
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To be fair to me Kardiac, I have been very consistent about his antics thoughout. Dating back the old board and his steelers rant. He cannot ever disprove what he has already shown. He can however show growth and maturity, which I see people clammouring to say that he has done. I am simply saying him giving to charities does not take away his selfish antics from the past.
Until I see this "Growth and maturity" I will reserve my judgement that he is anything other than what he has shown us.
When you coach has to say "I'll talk to him about that..." or whatever he said. That's not good.
Love him as a player, hate his attitude.
JMHO
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Now c'mon Toad, be fair...
Why should I? 
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The character traits you speak of, which affect the Browns (the only that anyone here cares about) have only occurred since BE has been on this team (2 years), not 4 or 5.
I mention 4 or 5 because he had this reputation while at Michigan. He had the rep of being an aloof player who was an egomaniac. Now I'm going to post a quick pre-NFL scouting report. This isn't designed to emphasize the negative as much as it's designed to validate why I said 4 or 5 years (since you asked  ):
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Negatives: Has shown good maturity as a senior, but was in trouble with the coaching staff previously for taking plays off … Still needs a coach to ride him to get the best out of his ability … Can be a good route runner, but at times will round his cuts and is more of a soft-angle type … Needs to fight for ball better, as you don't see him being a tough receiver on crossing patterns all the time even though he has shown flashes of excelling here (lacks consistency) … Will run some sloppy routes and will cruise when not involved in the play … Has developed a better feel for patterns, but needs to settle and break off them better … Must maintain discipline and effort, as he has been inconsistent doing both most of his career … Not considered a deep threat due to adequate timed speed … Lacks a natural feel for zone coverage and loses concentration at times, especially when he tries to get up field before securing the ball.
That doesn't speak of his immaturity issues, suffice it to say they were out there in force prior to the draft. People here will remember them well.
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And do you really think it's appropriate to put him in the same sentence as PacMan Jones, Chris Henry, and Ricky Williams?
Absolutely, but only in the specific context in which I used them.
I used them to exemplify how players, both old and new, have earned poor reputations because of their actions, and how those same players continued patterns of negative behavior. Remember my point: Patterns of established, negative behavior should not be absolved just because it's a "new year."
I haven't gone off on one of these tangents in a long time, but this is a good time to break out the "No Homers" and "Optimism versus realism versus pesismism" speeches
With each new beginning of the football year, optimism reigns supreme. It's easy to dismiss all past sins because we tend to get giddy for the new season, where anything is possible. The optimistic view would be that Edwards is saying all the right things and will back them up with his actions, despite numerous years of negative behavior both on and off the field.
Now, the pessimistic view would be that there's no way in Hell this egomaniac can possibly change his tune. He's a spoiled brat who's been handed millions of dollars and allowed to get away with more than he should. Because of that, there's absolutely no reason to believe he'll be able to turn the corner, and will continue to be a cancer to the team.
Having gone down those two roads, I'll now go down the road that leads to MY house: Realism Avenue 
Edwards has a history......and yes, it IS a history..........of negative behavior both on and off the field. However, some of that was when he was truly just a kid, and some level of maturity should be expected. While he was allowed to go too far before the team stepped on him, the team DID step on him by letting the media and fans know just how badly he screwed up. In turn, he's saying all the right things. With all that being the case, it's sheer folly to just assume that because it's a brand new year, all his past transgressions should be forgotten.
Even Chris Carter had to be released before he could turn the corner. 
Now, does Edwards deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as those guys? In the exact context to which I used them, absolutely. Remember, I'm not talking about levels of transgressions as much as I'm talking about patterns of negative behavior that were never overcome. I'm speaking to the sheer optimism that suggests his slate is wiped clean because of the unsound ideal that it's a brand new season and all past issues shouldn't play a role in current reality.
Big difference.
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I know there are a number of people on these boards who have a good amount of respect for your insight, myself included, but don't negate that by embellishing information just to make your case against BE.
It's only an embellishment if I stated his actions were as bad as those players. However, as I've continued to note, it's not the severity of negative behavior which is the issue, but rather the pattern of negative behavior that is hard to overcome.
Now, Soup, if you want to play the game, we can play the game, hehehe:
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Soup:
Chris Carter
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Toad:
Antonio Bryant
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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LOL,...very nice
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Oh, well then why didn't you just say all that to begin with.
See, YOU know what you mean to say, but it doesn't always translate in the context that you want it to, no matter how eloquently you present it. But I get you now. And I, too, like to stroll down Realism Avenue from time to time and I just wish more people would stray from the alleyways that run rampant to and fro. I suppose Homer Lane and Hater Street are far more convenient.
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He's gonna have to be a good solid sound football player. If he can do that , I think he lives up to being a No. 3 overall pick.''
Which means he "hasn't done it YET"!
No Pit, what it means is, if he can sustain it... maturation isn't something somebody achieves one day and then never takes a step back.. it's an on-going process. I'm pretty sure in the article Crennel says he has matured SOME... the question is, does he go forward or does he go back...
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On Monday, Crennel smiled and said, "I'll have to talk to Braylon and see where he's coming from with that."
Loosly translated? Shut the hell up AGAIN Leon!
No... that's not "Loosely translated".. that's "Translated according to Pit"..
yebat' Putin
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So you're saying I need to be even MORE longwinded.
The board will hate you later for that one
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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DON'T DO IT... 
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So you're saying I need to be even MORE longwinded.
The board will hate you later for that one
Oh good Lord no...
We're... we're good?
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So you're saying I need to be even MORE longwinded.
Reminds me of an old Miller beer commerical...
"If you've got the time, we've got the beer!"
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I think this goes here... official site Crennel stresses positives at HOF Club Steve King, Staff Writer 05.14.2007 CANTON--Maybe it was just coincidence. Or maybe it was done on purpose. No matter, for the bottom line is that it all fit together like a glove on Monday in suburban Canton, Ohio. Now, if only the 2007 season could go this smoothly for head coach Romeo Crennel and his Browns. As the Pro Football Hall of Fame Luncheon Club put to bed its 2006-07 year, Crennel stressed to an overflow crowd of more than 350 the importance of having a good attitude -- of getting out of the right side of bed. "When you get out of the right side of bed in the morning, you're cheerier, brighter and more optimistic. You see the glass as half-full," Crennel, the featured speaker, said at the club's final regular meeting of the year at the Four Winds Restaurant. "When you get out of the left side of bed, you're dull and you don't want to be bothered. "We want our guys to get out of the right side of bed because you have a better chance to be successful." Obviously, it doesn't matter what side of bed you get out of. You can sleep sitting up, for that matter. But Crennel's point is well-taken: He is hoping his players will have an upbeat mental approach and look forward to the promise of the upcoming season instead of locking back at the struggles of past years. We know B-Easy's on board. And it's easy to do that now. "In Brownstown, everything is pretty positive right now," said Crennel, who set a good example for his players by being funnier, quicker on his feet and more engaging -- by giving arguably his best public speech -- since being hired by the Browns in February 2005. "People are excited about the draft and free agency." Crennel said as soon as the 2006 season ended, the Browns identified their areas of need, one of which was the offensive line. So they went out and signed former Cincinnati Bengals left guard Eric Steinbach in free agency. Then in the NFL Draft recently, they added to that by using their No. 3 overall pick to take Wisconsin offensive tackle Joe Thomas. "We went into the draft realizing that we had no running attack last year and we couldn't protect the quarterback," the coach said. "We said to ourselves, 'Maybe we should draft a lineman.' " Genius!!! "We realized at that point that when we took the tackle, we lost out on the running back, and we also lost out on the quarterback," Crennel said. Then something happened. "Lo and behold, I don't know how it happened. I really don't," Crennel said. But when the Minnesota Vikings at No. 7 (Peterson) and the Miami Dolphins at No. 9 (Ohio State wide receiver/returner Ted Ginn Jr. of Cleveland Glenville High School) passed on Quinn, Crennel said the Browns started working the phones feverishly to see about making a trade to move back into the first round to get the Dublin, Ohio native. "Our next pick was at 36, and we didn't know who was going to be there," Crennel said. The Browns finally found a willing suitor in the Dallas Cowboys at No. 22, and when they pulled off the deal, Quinn was theirs. Crennel was asked during the question-and-answer session with the audience where Quinn was rated on the Browns' draft board. Without hesitation, the coach shot back, "Twenty-two!" Quick thinking by the coach. The laughter from the audience kept the club member from pressing Crennel for the right answer. But the acquisition of Quinn came at a steep cost -- the Browns' first-round draft choice in 2008 and their second-rounder in 2007. The HOF Luncheon Club can be a tough crowd, as evidenced by the fact a member of the audience called the deal "stupid." He said the Browns should have kept the picks and instead drafted an offensive lineman in the second round. But Crennel stood firm on the club's decision-making process. "We did draft a lineman," he said, meaning Thomas. Then he added, before the man could clarify his question, "If the player we got (Quinn) ends up being pretty good, then what we gave up will be well worth it." Crennel also talked about getting highly-rated cornerback Eric Wright in the second round -- "If you haven't noticed, we need cornerbacks," he said -- and signing running back Jamal Lewis, defensive linemen Shaun Smith and Robaire Smith and outside linebackler Antwan Peek in free agency. And as he talked, Crennel was smiling. "By all the things we've done this offseason, we're better on paper," he said. "We're optimistic about things. "Now we've got to be better on grass. We don't play games on paper. We play them on grass." Typical RACspeak. It's only spring now and it's perfectly OK -- almost expected, in fact -- to be positive. LOL!!! That's just crazy talk. That's especially true in the case of the Browns, who are trying to build up all the enthusiasm they can so as to be able to withstand a difficult six-game stretch to start the year. It's a stretch that will go a long way toward deciding their fate as a whole in 2007. Just like the players are now -- and just like Crennel was Monday -- it will be crucial for the Browns to get out of bed on the right side come September. I guess RAC is being a homer.
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So you're saying I need to be even MORE longwinded.
The board will hate you later for that one
Oh good Lord no...
Not even HE can help y'all out of this one
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Crennel also talked about getting highly-rated cornerback Eric Wright in the second round -- "If you haven't noticed, we need cornerbacks," he said NO..I noticed it and keep singing that tune all the way up to the draft..
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The only thing I have to say about Quinn starting from day one is the question:
What recent starting quarterback has started from day one and has been successful?
I'm not saying that he shouldn't, I'm actually genuinely wondering who was the last QB to do so. Was it Manning?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I'm not saying that he shouldn't, I'm actually genuinely wondering who was the last QB to do so. Was it Manning?
How about Otto Graham?
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Braylon Edwards, was late to a meeting - got mad because the line suckes (duh). What else did he do again?
A meeting.....A MEETING you don't have a clue soupy. As for what else he did...... lined up in the wrong spots, ran the wrong patterns, dropped the ball, had gator arms at times, didn't fight for the ball, pissed off his teamates
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848 |
Quote:
Quote:
Braylon Edwards, was late to a meeting - got mad because the line suckes (duh). What else did he do again?
A meeting.....A MEETING you don't have a clue soupy. As for what else he did...... lined up in the wrong spots, ran the wrong patterns, dropped the ball, had gator arms at times, didn't fight for the ball, pissed off his teamates
Show me where he pissed off his teamates (link with proof).
ALL YOUNG PLAYERS MAKE MISTAKES! Winslow did the same so I guess you all hate him too. You probably hate BArry Sanders as well, they showed on a special on NFLN that he would avoid going through the hole on several occasions (aka - not running in the corrct lane). Everyone who actually listened to the interview stated he talked about his route running and lining up mistakes as well as drops and took the blame. So again I ask, what is wrong with him believing success is a 10-6 season?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
Soup, just let it go. No one is going to think any different than they do now until Braylon proves he has changed on the field of play. I, personally, am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Those that don't care for him, I can see their point, but only to an extent. There were times last year that I wanted to grab his jersey and scream in his face. And if I had been on that sideline, I may have done just that. So I guess I'm no better than he is. Hence, I have a hard time understanding why people think these KIDS should be model citizens every waking moment of their young, rich and televised lives. But whatever. Braylon is who he is. I just hope the football player in him matures as much as the philanthropist and citizen hero has. Either way, we'll all be watching if and when it does. Get it done Braylon.
Follow me on Twitter <a href="link" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/CoachA12</a>
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850 |
Quote:
Show me where he pissed off his teamates (link with proof).
I'll show you my butt crack Whats said inside Berea can't be linked. As for your HATE garbage Who in the hell even said anthing about hating the guy
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 373
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 373 |
I don't think anybody on here hates Braylon.
People just want him to shut up until he does something on the field.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869 |
Quote:
I don't think anybody on here hates Braylon.
People just want him to shut up until he does something on the field.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 848 |
Quote:
Quote:
Show me where he pissed off his teamates (link with proof).
I'll show you my butt crack Whats said inside Berea can't be linked.
That's a scary thought, lol. I'm amazed that everyone on this board is inside BErea.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,580
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,580 |
"I'm amazed that everyone on this board is inside BErea."
I have been inside Bea,and I have been inside Rhea,but I ain't never been inside Berea.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,069 |
Quote:
Quote:
Show me where he pissed off his teamates (link with proof).
I'll show you my butt crack Whats said inside Berea can't be linked. As for your HATE garbage Who in the hell even said anthing about hating the guy
.... 
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