DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Frye under Carthon and Davidson

Frye under Carthon this year - 6 games
67.3 QB Rating
1 win
5 losses

Frye under Davidson this year - 6 games
80.1 QB Rating
3 wins
3 losses

Frye game by game under Davidson
vs NYJ - 81.8 QB Rating - (15 of 22) 141 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
vs SD - 72.3 QB Rating - (26 of 44) 241 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
vs ATL - 109.1 QB Rating - (16 of 22) 165 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
vs PIT - 89.1 QB Rating - (17 of 27) 224 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT
vs CIN - 40.9 QB Rating - (18 of 29) 186 yards, 0 TD, 4 INT
vs KC - 131.4 QB Rating - (11 of 13) 122 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

Very nice comparison. WoW

A variety of factors...O-line play, opponents, but the results are clear.

Mo must go...wait <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I knew he had been doing better...but wow...other than cincy hes been doing a fine job post-Mo

Very interesting indeed.

I love posts when I learn something. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

One TD per, is not a fine job. It is tollerable, not fine, unless we win...of course. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

As long as he protects the ball, he won't hear the boo birds too much.

Can't give the KC win to him, that one's Anderson's.

It's like the game was 0-0 in the 3rd quarter.

I would like to see the game by game with MO, as well please.

The game was 14-14 going into the third.

I'm not a math major but I think that 14>0.

therfore, 14 is nothing like 0.

Charlie kept us in it. Without his points I doubt Anderson would put up 31 points in the 4th.

maybe it seems like it to me (ideally hed average 1.5-2td..with.5-1int a game)..because of how bad it was in the beginning of the season. Its my hope that we're finally starting to see the Davidson O...and hes getting more comfortable, because if yesterday was a "Davidson" game..we got ourselves a gem.

[color:"orange"]Of course it has nothing to do with the Defenses we are playing against <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Or for that matter, the blocking, catching, and throwing. It's ALL Davidson and Carthon, hehe.

Just kidding. I thought this was a good post, makes one think a bit.

But I think the QB rating improving is more a product of the offense improving overall under Davidson, not necessarily just Frye. In general, the blocking schemes seem to be better, the play calling is getting more creative, we're running plays that fit our personel, but there also has been a strong effort to keep Frye from making the big mistake.

JMHO.

Frye game by game under Carthon
vs NO - 53.3 QB Rating - (16 of 27) 132 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT
vs CIN - 58.1 QB Rating - (20 of 33) 244 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT
vs BAL - 90.2 QB Rating - (21 of 33) 298 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
vs OAK - 89.6 QB Rating - (22 of 32) 192 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT
vs CAR - 49.9 QB Rating - (26 of 43) 173 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT
vs DEN - 66.4 QB Rating - (19 of 33) 149 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT

Frye game by game under Davidson
vs NYJ - 81.8 QB Rating - (15 of 22) 141 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
vs SD - 72.3 QB Rating - (26 of 44) 241 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
vs ATL - 109.1 QB Rating - (16 of 22) 165 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT
vs PIT - 89.1 QB Rating - (17 of 27) 224 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT
vs CIN - 40.9 QB Rating - (18 of 29) 186 yards, 0 TD, 4 INT
vs KC - 131.4 QB Rating - (11 of 13) 122 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

Why would you bring this up?

I think the only fair way [and even that is flawed] is to compare his numbers against like opponents. Of course, the qb is not the only player on the O, so you should give the production for the entire O for like opponents.

That said......would you care to give us the numbers of how Frye and the team did against the only common opponent...the Bengals?

LOL........I didn't think so.

You are a duh dee duh dee

true true...I'm eternally the optimist..the first half of our schedule had some stout Ds...wasnt really thinkin about that. The Jets, Falcons, and Chiefs...not so much. Even as bad as the Bungals D is...they're designed to force the turnover...and when they are playing good they do it quite well.

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Good information....I don't know that i would chalk this past win up in fryes cloumn.....but since you can use his 1st half stats, i will give it a pass...


But the reality is if any QB won this game, it was Anderson.

We scored a TD on 67% of Frye's Drives
We scored a TD on 40% of Anderson Drives

It's Highly doubtful we would have won if Anderson played the whole game.

I think you get a bit too hung up on the percentages <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

No matter how you or other spin it....Anderson did a good job....not that Charlie didn't...but it is worth at least a bit of a look.

I can't say for everything yet.....but as far as arm....Anderson has charlie beat by a long shot.

I understand that is just one component.....but all being equal, that wins out.

Anderson deserves a look....and i don't want to hear this crap if he does poorly next game......it isn't like Charlie got ripped in one game.

I just don't think Charlie is so superior that he has closed out the competition or locked the spot.

There is nothing wrong if someone proves out to be better than Charlie.

I know that can't be a bad thing.

I think Cribbs would have won this game at QB the way we played. But that means as little as any other assumption about what ifs or maybes. At the end of the day the facts are DA was responsible for the 17 straight points, along with the defining play that put us in position to win in OT. Nothing else counts in the NFL other than what is done on the field. DA was the man in the huddle during crunch time this week and deserves the credit.

I don't think anyone is saying Anderson didn't do a good job, he absolutely did... I think what's being said is that he didn't do anything to be built up as having done anything better than Frye did in that game except avoid injury. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

However...Anderson did lead the team to a come from behind victory...with a good fourth quarter and OT. Something Frye hasn't done since Oakland, last year...

This is the same case I keep arguing about the situation. I'm not all on the Anderson boat yet, but the kid did something that Charlie didn't do, which is come from behind and lead our team to victory in the 4th quarter...

To you and the poster under you. The Oakland game was this year, and we came back from 21 down. How quickly some forget <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" /> That was only in October. Jeez.

He didn't lead the team from a come-behind against Oakland this year?

And wasn't it this year when Frye choked against the Ravens...

How quickly some forget <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

I'm not saying Andersons the answer, but Frye is notoriously known for playing bad in the 4th, and not exactly securing victories or winning games for us, which is something Anderson did this sunday.

Look up your stats...your wrong...

We beat Oakland in '05 with a come from behind victory... Led by Frye. 2006 we led most of the way, not a 21 point come from behind 4 th quarter victory.... It was only in October... Jeez.... <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

What does that have to do with you being wrong in the first place? That aside I would say Frye played an inspired game of ball against the Ravens. That was our game to win. We would have been destroyed if not for his standing tall and delivering the ball that game. He cant make the receivers catch a ball, or hold the RBs, TEs hand and make them pick up the blitz correctly.

[color:"orange"] wow, that's some serious revisionist history there. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

For all you "lead from behind, blah blah's"... Frye lead a come from behind tie it at the half to the tune of the exact same point differential as Anderson.

Frye: 14 points to match KC in the 1st half
Anderson: 14 points to match KC in the 2nd half


Like I said, the only damn difference between the two performances is Charlie got hurt.


If Anderson is the guy, so be it... but let's not be spreading complete b.s. to try to make our points. [/color]

No it wasnt a 4th qurtr comeback, does that make it any less of a comeback? We were down 21-3 in the second qrtr. So my bad, it was only an 18 point comeback. Although we did finish by scoring 3 TDs after that deficit.


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20061001_CLE@OAK

I don't think he is, except being off by 3 points, in 2006, we were at one point down to Oakland by 18 points. We came back earlier, but did not take the lead until 1:40 left in the 3rd, certainly not most of the game.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20061001_CLE@OAK

In 2005, We beat Oakland 9-7. We were down 7-0 and came back, getting a game winning field goal from Dawson as time expired.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20051218_CLE@OAK

~Lyuokdea

frye has looked better under davidson, no doubt...

the interceptions are down, which is the key, you cut your defense a little slack by not giving the ball up like that...

i don't really count the 4 picks in the cincinnati game, because we defended like you know what, and he was interception free in the first half, only throwing that hail mary interception right before half time which shouldn't count in his stats anyways because it was kind of a low risk throw with no time left... the other 3 picks were thrown when the game was decided and charlie was just trying to make something happen... other than that he has been better about protecting the ball and throwing it away when there isn't any other option...

and let's not forget, i know derek anderson was fantastic, and we'll find out more about him on thursday, but charlie was 11-13 with a touchdown and no picks before he left the game with that injury, he was doing very well...

I'm not spreading BS. I'm just trying to make a point that Frye hasn't exactly been spectacular in the 4th quarter, which is a key aspect in looking at a quarterback.

I by no means am trying to say Anderson is our new starter and future QB. I'm just saying, Frye hasn't proved to me that he is going to be our future starting QB. On the other hand, he hasn't proved that he's not going to be either. But you can't just assume that Anderson won't amount to anything because we want Frye to win. You can't overlook the fact that Anderson did lead us from behind, in the 4th and in OT.

Frye has not shown that he is going to be the QB of this team for years to come, so what's the harm at looking to see how someone else plays? Give Anderson a chance, he showed some promise on Sunday.

shhhhh..... this is a QB bashing session, we can't have facts getting in the way.

i agree, i would really like to see more of anderson, curiosity alone has me on that one...

i liked what i saw, i loved the pocket presence, and the arm looked great...

if nothing else we've got ourselves a great option at backup... a lot of teams in this league are pretty horrible with depth at the qb position...

with what anderson did last weekend to rally his offense to a win, i'm pretty excited to see this pittsburgh game, from what i've read, charlie won't play, and he may not return this year...

[color:"white"] Here's the game I was talking about..... [/color]

NFL Game Summary - Cleveland At Oakland

POSTED: 12:52 am EST December 19, 2005

Email This Story | Print This Story

Oakland, CA -- Phil Dawson hit a 37-yard field goal as time expired to give the Cleveland Browns a 9-7 victory over the Oakland Raiders.

With 3:15 remaining in the game, Alvin McKinley blocked a Sebastian Janikowski 46-yard field goal attempt that gave Cleveland the ball back down 7-6.

Driving deep into Oakland's territory, Cleveland running back Reuben Droughns lost control of the ball at the 19 with 43 seconds left, but after a long replay, it was ruled by referee Mike Carey that Droughns' knee was down before the ball came loose. After the scare, Frye kneeled at the Raiders' 20-yard line to set up Dawson's game-winner.


Frye completed 4-of-5 passes to set up Dawson's fourth career game-winning field goal.

"It's why we put in all this time and effort," said Dawson. "When you lose games, you can kind of grow disillusioned pretty quick and all the time you're spending on this thing, but when you win one it reminds you of why you do this and hopefully this can be a spring board and we can go out next week and play well and the following week after that."

Frye got his first win as a starter, finishing the game 21-of-32 for 198 yards with an interception for the Browns (5-9), who snapped a three-game losing streak.

"I think it (the win) shows that we have determination on this team," said Frye. "We're never going to give up, we're going to go out there every time we get the ball, try to move the ball and try to score points. That's the way we look at it every time we take to the field and nobody gives up. Everybody fights hard and that's what I respect and that's why I care about these guys so much."

Antonio Bryant had five catches for 86 yards and Droughns rushed for 53 yards and added five catches for 31 yards in the Cleveland victory.

LaMont Jordan rushed 25 times for 132 yards for the Raiders (4-10), who have lost four straight and six of seven. Jordan also caught five passes for 40 yards.

Kerry Collins was 14-of-30 for 132 yards with a touchdown and interception, returning to action after Marques Tuiasosopo started last week's 26-10 loss to the Jets.

"We're obviously struggling as an offensive football team, and there are things that are making us struggle," said Oakland head coach Norv Turner. "Sometimes it's Kerry, sometimes it's some other things that are keeping us from getting done what we want to get done."

After a scoreless opening quarter, the Raiders took a 7-0 lead late in the second quarter. Collins hit Randy Moss with a leaping 28-yard grab over the middle with a 1:16 left until halftime. Moss' sixth TD catch of the year capped a 15-play, 89-yard drive that lasted nearly eight minutes.

On the ensuing kickoff, rookie Josh Cribbs took the return 46 yards up to the 49-yard line. Frye hit Bryant with a 10-yard pass that set up Dawson's 44-yard field goal, making the score 7-3 heading into halftime.

Jordan led the Raiders in the first half rushing for 66 yards and had two catches for 15 yards.

Cleveland had a great chance to score early in the game on its second possession, but were stopped on fourth-and-one as Droughns was hit short of the goal line.

With 3:57 remaining in the third quarter, Collins was intercepted after his pass deflected off Jerry Porter's hands and right to Leigh Bodden.

The Browns capitalized off the turnover as Dawson kicked a 24-yard field goal with 1:48 left in the third period for a 7-6 game. However, two turnovers in the fourth quarter hurt Cleveland's chances of taking the lead.

With 12:35 left in the fourth quarter, Droughns fumbled a handoff that Terdell Sands recovered at the Raiders' 43-yard line.

After getting the ball back, Frye's deep pass for Corey McIntyre was picked off along the right sideline by Renaldo Hill with 7:48 remaining.

Janikowski had a chance to tack on three points to the Raiders lead, however, his 46-yard attempt was blocked by McKinley's right hand, giving the Browns the ball at their own 37-yard line with 3:15 to go in regulation.

Game Notes:

The Browns have won five of the past six games in the series...Dawson has made 20 straight field goals on the road...Jordan became the first Raider since Hall of Famer Marcus Allen in 1990 to rush for 1,000 yards and have over 500 receiving yards in a season. Jordan limped off the field late in the third quarter after a 26-yard run. He went to the sidelines to get his ankle re- taped and returned to action in the fourth...Oakland still has a 9-6 lead in its all-time regular season series with Cleveland.

Copyright 2005 Courtesy of SportsNetwork.

Great info. It's a shame most on here are going to ignoe it or say something without merit *cough" Vers *cough*. Yeah, opponents aren't alike at all - 5 of 6 in each category are in the playoff hunt. I'll never get what Vers facination with Mo was, it's the most illogical fascination on this entire earth. Stonehenge makes more sense than that does.

In 22 games under Mo we scored 20+ points around 5 times due to the O (26 being the highest total). In 6 under Davidson we've scored 20+ in 3 games due to the O (would have been 4 if Dawson didn't miss the chip shot vs. Atl) and we scored over 30 once. Something Mo never did. End of debate. Great info, it's obvious Frye is developing, we need a real RB and to strengthen the o-line and we'll be good to go on O.

your "choke" comment was my primary reference with the b.s. call..... and it deserved it.

aside from that, I call b.s. on the folks using the 4th qtr come from behind thing as an argument.... it's weaker than Popeye without his spinach.

Finally, if Anderson proved something to you Sunday, but Frye didn't... then I think you should have cleaned your glasses earlier in the afternoon.... or perhaps you just weren't watching as closely because the guy that started the game was familiar... and folks tend to sit up and notice the new guy they know nothing about when he performs better than expected... which is really, IMO, the root of all of this.


Hell, I'd put money on the notion that at least half the people calling for Anderson were also questioning RAC & Opie going with him as the #2 instead of a veteran.

I think it is often a good thing to look at a passers YPA and completion percentage.

Frye game by game under Carthon
vs NO - 53.3 QB Rating - (16 of 27) 132 yards, 1 TD, 2 INT 4.9 YPA 59.3%
vs CIN - 58.1 QB Rating - (20 of 33) 244 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT 7.4 YPA 60.6%
vs BAL - 90.2 QB Rating - (21 of 33) 298 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT 9.0 YPA 63.6%
vs OAK - 89.6 QB Rating - (22 of 32) 192 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT 6.0 YPA 68.8%
vs CAR - 49.9 QB Rating - (26 of 43) 173 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT 4.0 YPA 60.5%
vs DEN - 66.4 QB Rating - (19 of 33) 149 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT 4.5 YPA 57.6%

Frye game by game under Davidson
vs NYJ - 81.8 QB Rating - (15 of 22) 141 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT 6.4 YPA 68.2%
vs SD - 72.3 QB Rating - (26 of 44) 241 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT 5.5 YPA 59.1%
vs ATL - 109.1 QB Rating - (16 of 22) 165 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT 7.5 YPA 72.7%
vs PIT - 89.1 QB Rating - (17 of 27) 224 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT 8.3 YPA 63.0%
vs CIN - 40.9 QB Rating - (18 of 29) 186 yards, 0 TD, 4 INT 6.4 YPA 62.1%
vs KC - 131.4 QB Rating - (11 of 13) 122 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT 9.4 YPA 84.6%

For those who are the familiar with YPA, less than less than 6 is terrible, 6-7 is below average, 7-8 above average, and above 8 is very good.

Under Carthon there were 3 of the 6 games were under 5, and only 1 good gave (Baltimore)

Under Davidson 0 of 5 games were under 5. and 3 of the 6 games were above average or very good.

Completion percentage is pretty good in both cases.

So, this basically says that Carthons approch to offense resulted in a lot of short passes.

[color:"white"]

If I'm not calling for Anderson, but did question him as the #2 (and still do) does that put me in the other half? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> [/color]