DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Should We Tank The Season?

dunno why anybody is acting shocked.

since 99, we've only had 2 winning seasons.

we've been tanking since the return. this isn't anything new.

... and it hasn't worked yet.

Indeed it is...Absolutely unthinkable.

In the past 20 years or so there have only been maybe 3 years where tanking was worth it.

In each of those years there was a surefire franchise QB or at least value in trading (Eli Manning) him.

I thought we made a big mistake in winning those extra few games the year Luck came out, but other than that there hasn't been a guy with such high odds to succeed.

In fact, how many #1 overall QBs are still around as top QBs right now?
Manning, Manning (but signed as FA for current team), and Luck.

We had our chance at many good QBs. I wanted Roethlisberger the year we made the terrible choice of KW2.

Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Russel Wilson, Andy Dalton (ok lol on this one), Flaaco.

I'm not cherry picking here, the list goes on and on. In this day and age college success doesn't really reflect onto NFL success so good scouts and good picks are the best way to find your QB of the future.

What a ridiculous question heading into opening week! You are certainly no fan of the BROWNS and certainly no fan of mine. Please find something else to do on Sundays because certainly You have not a CLUE!

No, never.

No.

However I find myself wondering how we take the next step if we keep going at this pace of 4-7 wins.

People argue about where you need to find a quarterback, and there's no definitive answer. I tend to believe that if you heave a healthy stable environment, that it's much easier to bring in a quarterback and raise him. There has to be a happy medium between switching coordinators every other year and keeping a coach around for the sake of stability.

Let's say this team does tank, or maybe they just win games because that's how it went down. You draft Cardale, but again, you have a new coach, with new assistant coaches. Certain players will be cut so the new coach can make room for the scrub players that are available from the team they were just hired from. That's just not healthy either.

The other thing about Cardale, is that he's still very raw. He's not polished at all. He needs a lot of coaching to be able to start at the next level. He will have a lot of the same challenges that Johnny has. Sure, his natural talent, and size will help him get by easier than Johnny but he needs to be developed. I really wish the organization, media, and fan base would embrace the thought of developing a quarterback.

It's so easy to just ask why we don't play Johnny right now, so that you either get a pass/fail from him, and will either be rewarded with Johnny Manziel being the guy or on the flip side, Johnny struggling so much that you end up with a top pick.

I would really like to see this team continue to build, maybe start actually targeting skill position guys, and just somewhere along the line draft a quarterback, and commit to developing him.

If people think Cardale Jones is worth tanking a season for purposely, why not just package current and future picks in a trade to secure him ala Washington (though we saw how RG3 panned out which ironically we can get if we wanted)?

Another RGIII-like trade scares the poopy outta me... heck I would be scared even if it were another team making a trade like that again!

Bill Polian was fired after the season.

Usually teams that are in the position to receive multiple picks for a QB also need a QB. Therefore, they don't give trade the pick.

The Rams/Washington trade was a unique circumstance.

For example, let's say Buffalo finishes with the worst record and there is a franchise QB available in the draft. Is there any amount of picks they would take to not pick that player?

I've given up on this team getting anything right, we'll win just enough games to have a mediocre draft pick and do it all over again next year.

All we had to do was lose 3 more games in 2011 and this fan base could possibly be in jubilation right now.

He speaketh the truth.

Lighten up, Francis.

This is my generally my thinking as a whole, build the team, stabilize the environment, then get the QB. I'm hoping Haslam will tough it out while this happens.

Someone, not saying necessarily Cardale. But this would be my approach, I do think we are at a point that we can afford to go after a guy, (by giving up picks,) if there is one there that can be our franchise QB.

As stated earlier, I don't think Pettine or the team would do it. I believe they believe they can win this year. We'll see... If we're 2-10 heading into the last two games, I would hope they would know when to quit. That certainly hasn't been the case in the past though.

lol... New running back?

I can't speak as a GM, because I'm not one- even in Madden (never played the game).
I can't speak as a NFL tactician/strategist.
I can only speak as a fan... an 'Old School fan,' at that.

Let's say The Browns actually pull off a 'tank' season that lands them that difference-maker at QB, and 2 years later win it all. Heck, while we're at it- let's take another puff of the pipe, and say it creates an 8-12 year 'dynasty' that places them routinely in the playoffs...

...this fan would always have to look at that segment of Browns history with an asterisk attached to every record dating back to the season before the draft day when everything changed. That 1-15 year would taint everything that came afterward, for me.

I would never be able to feel 100% good about anything they'd accomplished in that span of time... and I'd HATE carrying around "that little sliver of shame" everywhere I went. Sorry, Cal- that's too much of a weight to carry for me. It's just how I was raised, you know?

Yeah, I'm definitely 'Olde Schoole'... but I still think there's more dignity in losing with honor than to win by cheating.



WHEN this team finally hoists the Paul Brown Trophy (I'll never accept that it's called the Lombardi), I want to know- in my heart of hearts- that it was 100% EARNED. It's the only way I'll ever be able to feel total satisfaction for my lifelong commitment to this team.


just my .02,
Clem

Fail for Cardale, Back off for Goff, or By Hook or By Crook for Cook.

I get it, Clem. And I'm not advocating it, simply posing the question because it's out there, and there is precedence (IMHO). However, if we were to legitimately end up with the first pick in the draft and take a franchise guy, I'd be all

You certainly have a knack.

Absolutely not. Start strong, try to build momentum, see how many games you can win.

Now if we do that and still at some point we are 1-7 or 2-8 or something like that... ask me again.

I'm not in favor of tanking a season.. however winning a meaningless game in week 16 or 17 to go from the #1 or 2 spot in the draft where you can have your pick of QBs to 5 or 6 also sucks.

OH I am not saying tank the season. I think you know me better than that bro

We suck so much, it will be hard to tell if we tanked on purpose or not...

The problem with that is there is no patience with anyone when it comes to the Browns, and going that route requires unbelievable patience. You have to trust your coaches, scouts, front office people... Yup, Ray has whiffed on some picks, but I think we need to stick it out with him. I think Mike Pettine should be around until he does not do well with better QB play and better skill positions added.

I've said it before, but I would love to see the Browns built strong enough to the point where if they felt that Mike Pettine wasn't the guy, or that Ray Farmer was not the guy, that they would be stable enough to replace those guys from within. You would have a new voice, but the ideas and philosophies would remain the same, and you don't have this giant wave of turnover where that almost always spells 2-3 years of "rebuilding"

I don't know if that's possible, but it's just something I would like to see. I also think doing that weeds out all these power hungry guys who put way too much on their plate, when it comes to picking out your new coach.

Screw that.


I will root for a loser that fights hard, like Chuck "Rocky" Wepner. I won't root for a team that rigs games and loses without trying to win.

Fun fact from Thursday Night Football:

Bill Belichick: 16 years NE Head Coach
Mike Tomlin: 9 years PIT Head Coach


Brown fans have the patience of a 4 year old... which by the way, is the excat same number of years as the longest-tenured Browns HC in 16 years.

This has been beyond insane.

Yes...let's win 5 games instead of 2...because that accomplishment is such a great source of pride for Browns fans everywhere. Meanwhile, we can't find an NFL QB with 2 hands, a flashlight, a map or anything else.

Does anyone really care if we "fail" and win 2 games or "try" and win 5? I've had enough of crappy football in the last 15 years. I'll gladly ride out one last 2 win season for the chance to get a guy who actually makes the Browns competitive for a decade.

Breaking Down the First Round Quarterback Draft Picks Since 2009

Link

Quarterback is the most important individual position in the NFL. The 2013 Seattle Seahawks proved that a dominating defense can lead the way to a Super Bowl title, but their quarterback, Russell Wilson, is proving he is far more than just a game manager. In fact, you would have to look back all the way to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers Super Bowl XXXVII winning team to find a Super Bowl champion that wasn’t led by a franchise quarterback. Furthermore, 20 of the last 22 Super Bowl winning teams were lead by franchise quarterbacks. Given these overwhelming statistics, it should come as no surprise that the quarterback position is a major emphasis in the NFL Draft league-wide.

Since the 2009 NFL Draft, 17 quarterbacks have been taken in the first round. Given the importance of quarterback play and the emphasis coaching and player personnel staffs place on the position, one would think that the time and money invested into finding the next great quarterback prospect would yield higher returns. In compiling this list, it was somewhat surprising to see how many first-round quarterbacks have been busts in the last five years alone. Here is a look at the 14 quarterbacks selected in the first round of the NFL Draft since 2009 that have at least one full season of NFL experience.



2009 NFL Draft
Matthew Stafford — 1st Overall Selection, Detroit Lions

Stafford is in his sixth year as the starting quarterback for the Lions where he has developed into one of the top quarterbacks in the NFL. His life has been made easier by having Calvin Johnson as his main target, but there is no denying Stafford is one of the more gifted pure passers in the league.

Career Stats: 67 starts, 59.7% completion rate, 19,049 yards, 116 touchdowns, and 77 interceptions.

Mark Sanchez — 5th Overall Selection, New York Jets

Although Sanchez quarterbacked the Jets to AFC Championship games in his first two seasons in the NFL, he is still widely considered a bust. In fact, the Jets’ success with Sanchez at quarterback was more of a success despite Sanchez situation. He was the beneficiary of a solid running game and one of the league’s premier defenses. While he did have some success and is still in the league (he is the backup in Philadelphia), his play has yet to, and probably never will, reflect his draft status.

Career Stats: 62 starts, 55.1% completion rate, 12,092 yards, 68 touchdowns, and 69 interceptions.

Josh Freeman — 17th Overall Selection

At one point, Freeman looked like the long-term answer in Tampa Bay. Now, he falls into the bust category. In 2010, he was a Pro Bowl alternate and had another strong season in 2012. That’s where things took a turn for the worse for Freeman. Off-field immaturities and a clash with head coach Greg Schiano led to his mid-season release in 2013. He was signed by the Minnesota Vikings for the remainder of the 2013 season, but started only one game. He is currently a free agent, and at this point, his NFL future looks very bleak.

Career Stats: 60 starts, 57.6% completion rate, 13,724 yards, 80 touchdowns, and 67 interceptions.

2010 NFL Draft
Sam Bradford — 1st Overall Selection, St. Louis Rams

Bradford has battled injuries throughout his entire career dating back to his college days at Oklahoma. He has played well at times and shown that he has the ability to be a franchise quarterback when he has been on the field, but he is currently on the Rams’ Injured Reserve list for the second season in a row. At this point, it is likely that the Rams will begin looking for a new face of the franchise at quarterback going forward.

Career Stats: 49 starts, 58.6% completion rate, 11,065 yards, 59 touchdowns, and 38 interceptions.

Tim Tebow — 25th Overall Selection, Denver Broncos

Tebow’s NFL career has been well-documented ever since the Broncos shockingly took him in the first round of the 2010 NFL Draft. While he was a fiery leader and fierce competitor during his time as a NFL quarterback, there was no hiding or denying that he was an awful pure passer and could not successfully lead an offense playing from the pocket, something that is critical to long-term NFL success as a quarterback. Following a wild run with Denver in 2011 where the Broncos won several games in improbable fashion, Tebow was traded to the New York Jets where he never really saw any significant time at quarterback. He was released following one season with the Jets and eventually signed with the New England Patriots who released him during training camp. Without a position change, Tebow’s NFL career is likely over, making him another first round quarterback bust.

Career Stats: 16 starts, 47.9% completion rate, 2,422 yards, 17 touchdowns, and 9 interceptions.

2011 NFL Draft
Cam Newton — 1st Overall Selection, Carolina Panthers

Newton is the face of the Carolina Panthers and is on the verge of signing a massive contract extension with the team. He has started every game for the Panthers since being drafted and led the Panthers to the playoffs in 2013. He has been named to two Pro Bowl rosters and was the 2011 NFL Rookie of the Year.

Career Stats: 53 starts, 60.0% completion rate, 12,566 yards, 71 touchdowns, 44 interceptions with 2,181 yards rushing, and 29 rushing touchdowns.

Jake Locker — 8th Overall Selection, Tennessee Titans

The jury is still out on Locker as he has battled injuries and seen limited starting action in his career to this point. He was drafted as a raw but gifted athlete with a lot of developmental potential. His development may have been hindered due to coaching changes and uncertainty in Tennessee. He is currently the Titans’ starter, but again has been battling injuries in 2014.

Career Stats: 22 starts, 57.3% completion rate, 4,738 yards, 26 touchdowns, 19 interceptions with 609 yards rushing, and five rushing touchdowns.

Blaine Gabbert — 10th Overall Selection, Jacksonville Jaguars

Gabbert has been a bust up to this point in his career. After three unsuccessful seasons with the Jaguars, Gabbert was traded to the San Francisco 49ers for a 6th round draft pick. He is currently the backup quarterback for the 49ers and will likely never again be a long-term starter in the NFL.

Career Stats: 27 starts, 53.3% completion rate, 4,357 yards, 22 touchdowns, and 24 interceptions.


Christian Ponder — 12th Overall Selection, Minnesota Vikinga

Ponder is still in Minnesota, but there is no doubting that he hasn’t lived up to his draft status. Teddy Bridgewater was drafted in 2014 and is now the future at the quarterback position for the Vikings. Ponder may be able to stick as a backup in the league, but will likely never be in the long-term plans of a NFL franchise again during his career.

Career Stats: 36 starts, 59.8% completion rate, 6,658 yards, 38 touchdowns, and 36 interceptions.

2012 NFL Draft
Andrew Luck — 1st Overall Selection, Indianapolis Colts

In his third NFL season, Luck is a legitimate MVP candidate. Enough said.

Career Stats: 38 starts, 58.6% completion rate, 10,183 yards, 63 touchdowns, 34 interceptions with 725 yards rushing, and 11 rushing touchdowns.

Robert Griffin III — 2nd Overall Selection, Washington Redskins

RG III’s rookie season had everyone in Washington thinking that they had found their long sought after franchise quarterback. However, Griffin was injured late in the 2012 season and played most of 2013 injured, and his play reflected it. He was completely healthy heading into 2014 before suffering a dislocated ankle. Kirk Cousins has stepped in and played well enough that RG III may be continuing his career with another team.

Career Stats: 30 starts, 63.3% completion rate, 6,708 yards, 36 touchdowns, 17 interceptions with 1,328 yards rushing, and seven touchdowns.

Ryan Tannehill — 8th Overall Selection, Miami Dolphins

Tannehill has started every game for the Dolphins in his NFL career and has had mixed results. At times, he looks like an elite NFL quarterback, and at other times, he looks like a guy who is in over his head playing in the NFL. He hasn’t received the strongest vote of confidence from the Dolphins’ coaching staff in 2014, but will likely get more time in Miami to develop.

Career Stats: 37 starts, 59.6% completion rate, 8,340 yards, 44 touchdowns, and 35 interceptions.

Brandon Weeden — 22nd Overall Selection, Cleveland Browns

Weeden is no longer with the Browns and is now the backup quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys. He struggled during his two seasons in Cleveland and a coaching change combined with a general manager change ultimately ended Weeden’s career in Cleveland before it ever really got going. He is likely going to be a backup for the rest of his NFL career.

Career Stats: 20 starts, 55.9% completion rate, 5,116 yards, 23 touchdowns, and 26 interceptions.

2013 NFL Draft
EJ Manuel — 16th Overall Selection, Buffalo Bills

Manuel was recently benched by the Bills in favor of Kyle Orton. Manuel remains a part of the Bills’ long-term plans but needs to make serious strides both mentally and physically. He is physically gifted, but continues to struggle with certain throws and fully grasping head coach Doug Marrone’s offense.

Career Stats: 14 starts, 58.6% completion rate, 2,810 yards, 16 touchdowns, and 12 interceptions.

j/c:

I wasn't going to respond to this thread because I thought it was stupid, but after contemplating Farmer's moves, perhaps he really is tanking the season on purpose?

The problem with Ray is that his moves may very well put the Browns into a top 5-10 draft slot in 2016, and he might be sitting there staring at the next Ben Roethlisberger or the next Julio Jones, but he will use the pick to draft another NT.

IMO, the guy just has no "feel", or respect, for the offensive skill positions.

Look, I've already made it clear that I don't want to tank the season. I think the whole idea is silly in the NFL. I'm just not opposed to the idea if the situation warrants it-- for example, if the team was out of playoff contention, in running for a top pick and especially if there was an exceptional prospect.

With that said, I'm not sure what the idea is behind listing all the #1 picks is, unless it's to show how much more likely it is for specifically the #1 overall QB to succeed than it is for any other single QB. The whole idea is to get the best one. Not the 2nd or 3rd or 4th or 5th best.

The idea is to get Matt Stafford, not Mark Sanchez or Josh Freeman.

Get Sam Bradford, not Tim Tebow.

Get Cam Newton, not Locker, Gabbert, or Ponder.

Get Luck, not Griffin, Tannehill, or Weeden.

A lot of studs get drafted #1 overall, I know it's not a guarantee by any stretch and some will bust (yet another reason why tanking the whole season is silly), but it's a whole heck of a lot better than drafting at #6 or #7.

Not trying to pick nits, but I believe your premise is false. Browns fans don't hire and fire people. Every team who has been losing for very long have unhappy fans that want a winner. I find it quite odd when people try to place the blame on Browns fans because of our woes. Our fan base has sold out their stadium again and again. Should we be happy with losing?

They won't need to tank the season. They will lose the old fashion way...by earning them. The tough schedule along with the worse group of QBs the NFL has ever seen. Losing will come naturally and easy.

UCanFindAnotherTeam

JC.. Lets not fail for Cardale please.. I just watched him. He clearly needs more time to develop his game.