DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Frye under Carthon and Davidson

I had this discussion at work today. Everyone talks about you need the vet to come in let the rookie sit for a few years learn the system etc. Then Frye is tossed in and everyone says they need the vet so frye can sit and learn etc.
Well DA has been sitting for 2 Years this being his 3rd. Perhaps thats why he looked so good. Hes ready Hes put in his time so to speak sitting on the sidelines charting plays learning the system. Perhaps he is our Brees and Frye is our Rivers we just had them mixed up in the order they should start.

[color:"white"]2nd. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And he really didn't look that good. He certainly didn't look any better than Frye did in the same game, at least not to my eyes, and I'm not exactly in Frye's corner.

From where I was sitting, I saw two balls that Anderson either had picked or should have had picked. He made a great run at the end, but nearly blew it at the end of regulation. He had the kind of time that Frye really hasn't had all year. I just don't see how two decent but far from great quarters suddenly makes him worth the look, but that's just me. I'd rather let Frye get the desperately needed experience that he'll have to have in order to get better. That way, the picture of whether or not he's the guy becomes clearer, quicker.[/color]

I am not going to get into the comeback stuff......I am not saying Charlie didn't do well.

What I am saying is Anderson did well enough....especially considering it was his first NFL action to at least give him more looks. For the longest time we have heard Charlie needs time, the game hasn't slowed down for him yet.....I would think the same thing applies to Anderson.

When you consider what he did and then consider the amount of action he has seen thus far in his career, one has to wonder what he will be like when he gains some experience.

Charlie has a full season of games under his belt...Anderson one half of one game. That one half doesn't make him equal to Charlie....Charlie is our starter.....but that one half was good enough that maybe we need to pause a bit and take a look.

My question is this....Is Charlie so good we need not look at other players?? A simple yes or no answer is all that is needed.

.....Which game was it where Frye threw it across his body in the endzone and it got picked...?

The more I think about it, I don't think that was the Ravens game. The Ravens game was when Frye was hit from behind and the ball was picked, right?

well, we can see that the results under Davidson (3-3) have been better than under Mo (1-5). i was clearly wrong in thinking that he wasn't a significant part of our problem. however, i think these stat differences should be left at the OCs...

Mo was more aggresive in his playcalling, especially towards the end of games...that led to Frye's numerous late INTs and lower completion %, IMO. also, it is interesting to me that Mo's offense was more short pass-oriented, yet Davidson's offense has proved more conservative...kind of quirky.

the point is, i think that lauding Frye is misplaced...Mo did not protect our young (and currently below avg.) QB...Davidson HAS protected him. that's where the different stats come from, IMO...

TI84...

you're correct...Baltimore game he was hit by an untouched blitzer, and he missed Braylon on a slant...the Oakland game was the across-the-body duck he tossed...

Thanks dnadawg. Was having a complete brainfart last night i guess.. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Since we're doing 2005 - 2006 comparisons...

2005...first 10 games...Dilfer

Record 4 -6
Everyone upset with record.
Game 11 - Dilfer played first half of game...got injured.
Fryed played second half...didn't look too good...1st NFL game.
Fans make excuse of first game, no experience, give the kid a chance because the season is lost...etc.... and want to see what Frye can do.
Fans felt that Frye should finish the year <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

2006...first 10 games with Frye
Record 3-7
Everyone upset with record
Game 11 - Shutout by worst Defense in League
Game 12 - Frye injured
Anderson played second half
Played good game...comeback victory in first NFL game.
Fans believe Anderson is NO GOOD and doesn't deserve a chance. Only want Frye to play QB....and do not want to see what Anderson can do... <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
?????????????????????

Difference in circumstance....?

Frye is local boy and, as such, is a fan favorite. Anderson is not local and therefore, is not a fan favorite. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I don't really care who plays, as long as the Browns win. I do think that Anderson deserves a look and a chance to show what he can do...just as Frye did last year....and Anderson should also get the same opportunity, with the same excuses that people have given for Frye's play all year....

Nice revisionist history

Now the REAL FACTS

2005
Game 10 - Frye's first game - We rotated Frye and Dilfer throughout the game
Game 11 - Frye played ONE play - Not half the game like you LIED above
Dilfer was dinged up badly in game 11 and had almost zero mobility by games end. His 30+ year old knee's where barely holding him up.
Game 12 - Frye's 1st start

Do I need to revise the rest of your post or do we all get the clue that you just made up a bunch of stuff. I noticed you like to revise history, and make stuff up. Why is that?


Sometimes I wonder if you are even a Browns fan. You know so little about the team.

i think the deal with cleveland fans not being too high on anderson is that the image of kelliy holcomb isn't quite far enough away...

the thing is, this is a young kid, 23 years old, he has his entire future ahead of him, he saw an opportunity and made the best out of it...

i really want to see what he can do, but one half of good football isn't about to make me shut the door on charlie..

he did make a crucial mistake late in the game (after we tied the game and forced the trent green fumble, he gave it right back to them) and i don't know if the defense was prepared for anyone but charlie, there was no book on anderson...

if derek gets another chance on thursday, and does what he did a few days ago, i think we may be onto something...

I was a Browns fan before you were ever born kid. I'm a BROWNS fan...not the fan of one player...spouting off the stats of my high school locker room buddy every time someone critcizes him....

I post on a lot of things, other than Frye. Something I've noticed you seldom do. If Frye were to be traded...or were to decide to go off as a FA to another team...I'd still be here...rooting for the Browns...You'd probably run off and become the Charter member of the Baltimore Raven's Frye Backers Club... I'm not a HOMER...I root for the Browns... too bad you can't say the same thing...

What was so wrong about what I posted???

Was Dilfer's record of 2006 wrong? No
I gave Frye credit for playing a half a game in game 11 of 2005..OK...I was wrong...Big Deal....

I said Frye started game 12...in 2005...you said he started game 12....in 2005 Hmmmm

Was Frye's record for this year wrong? No
Was my 2006 game 11 comment of Frye being shut out by what was, then, the # 32 ranked defense in the league wrong? No
Was Frye injured in game 12? Yes
Did Anderson come in at half time in game 12...as well as a series in the 1st half? Yes
So did I make up a bunch of stuff? No

Are you a Browns fan...or a Frye fan? If the Browns were to win with any other QB other than Frye...would you advocate Frye taking over again? I just want to see the Browns win...whoever the QB is. If Frye wins...which he hasn't done consistantly with the Browns...I would be happy. If the Browns lose...whoever the QB is...I'm unhappy. I guess that makes me a Browns fan.... not a fan of any particular player.

Why is it that you do not want to see Anderson get the same opportunity...in almost identical circumstances to the ones that gave Frye his first start last year? Didn't you think Anderson did a good job Sunday? How about at least as good of a job as Frye did in his first action last year? I'm not saying that Frye has lost his job, or that Anderson has taken the job away, but I'm saying that Anderson did well enough to deserve another look....after all, the Browns have been 3 - 8 in games that Anderson hasn't played more than 1 play (wanted to cut off any comments about Anderson playing 1 play, in 1 game earlier this year) and 1 - 0 in the only game where Anderson has had any extended playing time....not revisionist history....just fact.

Half

You gotta remember...Anderson has been in the league for 2 or 3 years as well. Now am I going to defend Frye to the death? No. Am I going to say that Anderson deserves a shot to start Thrusday? Only if Frye isn't healthy.

As the saying goes, "You can't lose your job due to injury".

I won't argue that you shouldn't lose your job due to injury, but it happens. Frye got his shot last year, according to Carthon (and ETF) because of the banged up nature of Dilfer's knees.... Frye played and did well enough to warrant a longer look.... and Dilfer never played again....

Rothlisberger got his chance due to injury....as did Brady... and the starters never came back again for their respective teams... except as backups....

I'm not saying that Anderson should take over....but I'm curious to see what the guy can do. Dilfer was traded and the QB job was given to Frye, with no competition and no questions. Since then, the whole emphasis has been on getting Frye the reps and experience necessary to determine if he is the QB of the future. With a 5 - 11 overall record in games that Frye has started and finished (3 - 8 this year), what's wrong with opening up the job to competition? It's not as though we're going to the playoffs....

My only comment about DA is that he does not have the accuracy of Frye, and he tends to miss the "wide open" reciever. Maybe its an emotional thing, but I saw that a couple of times in pre-season and once to Edwards last week.

I think he would be prone to more ints than Frye.

Chargerdawg:

You may very well be right. I'd just like to see what Anderson can do. Is he a potential starter, a backup, or someone that we should drop in favor of a FA or draft pick? I know that we're still trying to find the same things out about Charlie Frye, but with the season coming to a close, and the Browns being out of playoff contention, we need to see what some the young guys can do in game situations.

To me, Romeo actually sounded pleasantly surprised that Anderson had a good game the other day. Could it be because the emphasis has been so much on getting Charlie up to speed, and finding out what Charlie can do, that everyone else has been getting very few reps and lost in the shuffle? I know that backups get very few reps with the starting unit anyway, but given the team's perceived underachievment, and the change in offensive co-ordinators, maybe the backups have been getting less time than normal. I don't know...just a thought.

'Cutt will probably be leaving for Free Agency after this season. Wouldn't you like to see if Wilson is capable of taking the job. We've got problems on the O-Line and Sowells has been noted as being a possible replacement, but no one has seen him play.

The Browns have been having a bad season and the emphasis has undoubtedly been on improving the starters, and getting those same starters on board, in mid-season with Davidson's new system. That could mean very little time or practice reps being given to the backups.

What I'm saying is...We're coming to the end of a losing season...with no playoffs in sight... That gives us an opportunity to find out who, on the current roster, is capable of helping the Browns move to the next level....and see it in real game situations.

[color:"white"]Here's the tough part of all this: We need to see both guys play to see what we have in them. If one goes by that premise, then starting Andeson at some point isn't a bad thing. However, the other side of the coin is that Frye still needs time under center to learn, to grown, to gain experience, and most importantly, to let the team know if he's the starter or not.

The pecking order right now is very clear. This is Frye's team. That means he's going to start. The moment he's a healthy scratch and Anderson starts is the day that the white flag goes up on Frye. I don't believe the organization is at that point.

On the few occasions where Frye has actually had time, he's looked pretty good. Yet on the occasions where he's had to come from behind late in games, he's looked pretty bad. That's where the open window comes in for Anderson, but it's not open enough yet <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I think the so-called "solid game" he had isn't all it's cracked up to be.

My own personal feeling is that we don't need to see Anderson at all this year as the starter. A QB in this league can learn a ton by sitting and learning. Frye did that and is now the starter. We need to see if he's the guy or not, and we can't find that out if he's on the bench. Now his wrist is most likely going to keep him out. That means everyone will get to see what Anderson is made of. He's going to make mistakes against Blitzburgh, but the things to look for will be pocket presence, decision making, and accuracy. He's going to get a TON of heat, so if he's got the goods, we'll see glimpses of it. That's all the folks that want to see Anderson could really ask for. [/color]

Just gonna chime in real quick...

It's Anderson's 2nd year in the league as well. He was a rook last year.

Halfback,

When did I say I do not want Anderson to start? I've already posted on this site that I think Anderson should start Thursday because Frye is too dinged up to be effective. I want Anderson to start because Anderson at 100% is better than Frye at 60%.

I was a Browns fan long before Frye was a Brown, and I'll be a Browns fan long after Frye's career as a Brown is over.


Frye's first NFL start
136.7 QB Rating (13 of 20) for 226 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs

But, I'm sure if Anderson puts up half those #'s in his first start you'll be on here saying he's the best thing since sliced bread.

I will give you credit.....you sure know how to bring up the stats.

I have never been one to say stats are useless, but I do think one can take them a bit too far.

Are you a actuary for a insurance company or something?? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

QB Rating of QB's in their last 6 starts
108.8 -Carson Palmer
105.3 - Tony Romo
101.4 - Drew Brees
96.9 - Peyton Manning
93.7 - Steve McNair
91.0 - Philip Rivers
86.6 - Tom Brady
84.1 - JP Losman
81.7 - Marc Bulger
80.1 - Charlie Frye
77.5 - David Carr
76.6 - Jon Kitna
75.7 - Jake Delhomme
75.6 - Mike Vick
74.2 - Joey Harrington
72.6 - Chad Pennington
72.4 - Ben Roethlisberger
70.0 - Vince Young
69.8 - Brett Favre
67.1 - Matt Leinart
66.6 - Eli Manning
63.4 - Alex Smith
62.3 - Brad Johnson
61.2 - Rex Grossman
59.2 - Bruce Gradkowski

ETF...

You've made a habit of being Frye's number 1 supporter and attack dog on the board. The impression you give with your posts, your attacks and name calling are that you only around here to support Frye and for no other reason. It's just the impression your posts give. I have supported Frye in the past and will undoubtedly do so in the future. I've stated this in this thread and in others that all I want is for the Browns to win.

The last time I saw the Browns League Championship, I was 12 years old and the year was 1964...Repeat...I saw the Browns Championship in 1964...I wore Orange and Brown (not the blue and white of the Baltimore Colts). Needless to say, the years of frustration are definately there for me. To have anyone accuse me of not being a Browns fan is both insulting and disgusting.

[color:"orange"]As I'm sure you questioning his fanhood was insulting to him...

Nothing wrong with differing opinions, everyone here wants the same thing. [/color]

I know that MAV... I didn't question his fandom ... until after he made the comments about me.

Everyone on her needs to understand we all want the Browns to win. Many of us disagree with how the Browns need to go about doing it...coaching staff, FO, players, schemes, Draft vs. FA, etc. That's what makes the board interesting. Attacks and name calling against the people you disagree with have no place on the board....

Since you are the originator of this thread,as much as I hate to do it,I have to ask;

Frye's first NFL start
136.7 QB Rating (13 of 20) for 226 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs

was that the week Mo was on vacation?

[color:"orange"]I think that was the "Derek Anderson" performance from Frye. [/color]