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My mom, while she didn't have an assisted death, chose not to undergo kidney dialysis to keep her alive. She had fought with diabetes, heart disease and general terrible health for years.
My brothers and sisters begged me to talk with her to change her mind. I did talk with her and informed her of just how long her life could be prolonged through dialysis. She answered this way, "Son, I've had a blessed life by having my wonderful children. They are all grown and on their own now. I've fought my health issues for so long now, I'm just tired. I know you may not like my decision, but it's mine to make."
With that, I didn't argue with her or carry on about it any longer.
My Mother just told me the other day pretty much the same exact thing. 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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Then allow me to suggest something else for your consideration...
If a person really needs a Doctor to put them down like a dog, they really haven't put much thought into ending things, now have they? I think the goal is to die with dignity, not to live like a dog chained in a dirty garage with maggots and mange. Not sure how the comparison to dogs was necessary.
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Then allow me to suggest something else for your consideration...
If a person really needs a Doctor to put them down like a dog, they really haven't put much thought into ending things, now have they? I think the goal is to die with dignity, not to live like a dog chained in a dirty garage with maggots and mange. Not sure how the comparison to dogs was necessary. Comparing sick people to a chained dog in a dirty garage with maggots and mange is not at all necessary. 
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My mom, while she didn't have an assisted death, chose not to undergo kidney dialysis to keep her alive. She had fought with diabetes, heart disease and general terrible health for years.
My brothers and sisters begged me to talk with her to change her mind. I did talk with her and informed her of just how long her life could be prolonged through dialysis. She answered this way, "Son, I've had a blessed life by having my wonderful children. They are all grown and on their own now. I've fought my health issues for so long now, I'm just tired. I know you may not like my decision, but it's mine to make."
With that, I didn't argue with her or carry on about it any longer.
My Mother just told me the other day pretty much the same exact thing. That is sad.
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My Mother just told me the other day pretty much the same exact thing.  It's very hard to hear and accept those words. You want to try to force their hand in the other direction. I fully understand where you're at and what you're going through. My thoughts and prayers go out to you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Thanks for responding, 40. I appreciate it.
I'll give your words some thought. Maybe I'll find some comfort in them... and maybe they'll help me find a better place than the one I'm in right now.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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I can understand the idea of refusing treatment and leaving it up to God or letting nature take its course. Some might view that as suicide but I don't. However, having your last act in this life be to murder yourself just doesn't seem right to me.
My uncle Rocky did that and God decided to cure him of an incurable disease. He had degenerative joint disease that was fusing his bones together. He was in EXTREME pain and there was no real way to relive it since the pain was deep in the bones. One day he went to a charismatic healer and the next day he woke up with no sign he has ever had the disease. A flat out miracle that caused several of his doctors to rethink their lives.
Yet, how often does that happen? You certainly can't expect it. Still it does happen from time to time. I just think killing yourself is wrong and in many cases cowardly. Yet, I can understand and sympathize with those suffering too. I just don't want the government involved one way or the other because it can lead to very nasty paths of abuse and lack of concern for life.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I am saying that I would not do so for myself, and would probably vote against such a measure. While I can understand that people don't want to suffer, it happens sometimes. How unfortunately, some people do suffer as the result of a terminal illness, and that can, in most cases, a least. be made comfortable. How can you allow yourself to interfere into someone else's beliefs? This is why even the idea that Christianity is under attack is totally implausible. When Christians act to force society to accept their doctrine then it's Christians who are on the attack. Not being able to force your beliefs does not mean you're under attack. In the issue of assisted suicide the condition of your life is totally unaffected except for your beliefs. Your beliefs aren't even affected. You're still free to believe what you want, except for the part where you believe others should not have the right to act on their beliefs and that you should be an active agent in preventing others from exercising the freedom of following their beliefs. You are the attacker. I explained why I feel that way I do, but evidently you ignored it. Also, when it comes to laws, we all want ones that reflect out beliefs. Shocking!
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You know 40, actually our personal beliefs on this subject are very similar to a point. I believe it would be wrong of me to make such a decision. It's simply not a part of my belief system to end my life that way.
Yet at the very same time, I do not believe it's the right of laws or man to subject others to that same belief system. I think that's really the only point at which we disagree. I couldn't have said it better myself buddy 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Then allow me to suggest something else for your consideration...
If a person really needs a Doctor to put them down like a dog, they really haven't put much thought into ending things, now have they? I think the goal is to die with dignity, not to live like a dog chained in a dirty garage with maggots and mange. Not sure how the comparison to dogs was necessary. Comparing sick people to a chained dog in a dirty garage with maggots and mange is not at all necessary. I'm surprised that you agree.
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I explained why I feel that way I do, but evidently you ignored it.
Also, when it comes to laws, we all want ones that reflect out beliefs. Shocking! I didn't ignore your explanation. I understood it perfectly and addressed it directly. You would choose to take action to deny others the right to follow their beliefs. I also stated that is one of the major reason the "Christianity under attack" claim is totally bogus. In reality we have endured the consistent attack from fundamentalists trying to conform our society to their beliefs and they've claimed to be victims the whole time.
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I've always been surprised that this was even an issue, going back to the days of Kevorkian. This is a free country. If one is terminally ill, and at peace with the end, they should be free to choose. The idea of forcing someone to stick out the painful end for absolutely no good reason is just odd and cruel.
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You vote according to your beliefs and morality, and I do the same.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Why do you keep forcing your beliefs on the rest of us? Why so selfish?
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quote above from "Right to Die" article:
"The state Assembly approved legislation Wednesday that would allow terminally ill patients to legally end their lives after an emotional and deeply personal debate..."
Why does the terminally ill person have to have an "emotional and deeply personal debate"?
"I only have 6 months to live. Boo hoo hoo... I wet my pants... Why don't you vote Democrat? You know Democrats are always right."
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Trust me, they won't be killing Democrats.
On the other hand, Democrats still vote after they are dead.
Hmmmmm
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~ Legend
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Why do you keep forcing your beliefs on the rest of us? Why so selfish? What is being forced on you?
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40:
I believe that is the "Right to vote after death" legislation.
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Trust me, they won't be killing Democrats. Read the first word of the thread title.
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Why do you keep forcing your beliefs on the rest of us? Why so selfish? What is being forced on you? You continue to force your beliefs that people should be treated like dogs on the rest of us. Ask the Clerk lady what beliefs you forced on her! So selfish. Do you Libs have any solutions to problems in life besides killing someone? I THINK NOT! We are witnessing the slippery slope of The Culture of Death expand. Problems, Kill it!
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40:
I believe that is the "Right to vote after death" legislation. Executive Order of course.
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~ Legend
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Why do you keep forcing your beliefs on the rest of us? Why so selfish? What is being forced on you? You continue to force your beliefs that people should be treated like dogs on the rest of us. Ask the Clerk lady what beliefs you forced on her! So selfish. Do you Libs have any solutions to problems in life besides killing someone? I THINK NOT! We are witnessing the slippery slope of The Culture of Death expand. Problems, Kill it! Nothing was forced on these people? What do you mean, man? Don't you believe in the death penalty?
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Ask the Clerk lady what beliefs you forced on her! The next time a traffic judge says I have to pay a speeding ticket, I'm going to try and tell them that they're "forcing their beliefs on me".
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My religion says I can smoke and drive.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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My religion says I can smoke and drive. And you can - although it's not your religion. But, if you get busted, you'll have to deal with it. Smoke and drive and hurt my wife or kid, or me, I'll break your jaw. 
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Why not?
The church of Swish says I can break the law if I don't agree with it.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Why not?
The church of Swish says I can break the law if I don't agree with it. Is the church of swish registered? If so, fine. But if so, or if not, you hurt me, my wife, my kids, or anyone else, I'll jack your jaw so hard you poop teeth. Plus, you'll still have to deal with the law of the land. So, you'd be pooping teeth in prison. 
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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~ Legend
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Why not?
The church of Swish says I can break the law if I don't agree with it. Plus, you'll still have to deal with the law of the land. So, you'd be pooping teeth in prison. The United States needs to stop forcing their laws on Swish's beliefs. He just wants to be a good guy and go to Heaven!
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Thought of this scripture in regards to you.. I love reading your posts.. You and I think a lot alike.. I do not post much as I don't have a lot of patience for some comments and leave well enough alone. Anyway here it is, hang in there and keep fighting.
2 Corinthians 12:5-11 (KJ2000) 5 Of such a one will I boast: yet of myself I will not boast, but in my weaknesses. 6 For though I would desire to boast, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he sees me to be, or that he hears of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. 8 For this thing I besought the Lord three times, that it might depart from me. 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for you: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather boast in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. 11 I have become a fool in boasting; you have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended by you: for in nothing am I behind the very chief apostles, though I be nothing.
Last edited by Moxdawg; 09/12/15 09:58 PM.
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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My religion says I can smoke and drive. And you can - although it's not your religion. But, if you get busted, you'll have to deal with it. Smoke and drive and hurt my wife or kid, or me, I'll break your jaw. Now this is funny!! Carried over and flipped around from the other thread
Last edited by Moxdawg; 09/12/15 10:01 PM.
The Views Expressed By Me Are Not Necessarily The Views That You Will Agree With, I'm In My Own Little World But They Know Me Here.
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Why not?
The church of Swish says I can break the law if I don't agree with it.
------------------------------------------------------ Roll it up, light it up, have a puff, Ironic.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Thank you.
That is a great selection. Thank you for posting it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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J/C I usually don't get involved in the political,or religious debates you guy squabble about,but this one hits close to home. I had to make that decision for my son,it was hell,but it was the right thing to do. I asked for god's help and guidence many,many times during our ordeal,he must have been on an extended vacation. I would guess that not all people who are suffering should be allowed to end their lives,as a few may well recover,many more probably will not.Doctors should have the legal right to make a decision on which will and which will not.That call should not be left up to some boogey man in the sky.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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A vote to allow assisted suicide doesn't affect you at all. If you don't want one don't get one. Problem settled for you. You have provided a perfect example of, "No, we're the victims under attack!".
This issue is the same as gay marriage. Why do you want to prevent others from something you would have nothing to do with at all?
My guess is because of your religious beliefs and your mission to convert others against their will.
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I just get a little hinkey when I know what God wants from reading what He said and then people rush off to make the exact opposite the law of the land. It's kinda like when an out of control car is heading for the sidewalk full of people, it makes me hinkey so I yell "LOOKOUT"!!! The horror of having those people yell back at me, "WHY DO YOU FORCE YOUR BELIEF'S ON US"? just before they turn to mush, is somewhat disconcerting. But Meh, your choice. 
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I just get a little hinkey when I know what God wants from reading what He said and then people rush off to make the exact opposite the law of the land. It's kinda like when an out of control car is heading for the sidewalk full of people, it makes me hinkey so I yell "LOOKOUT"!!! The horror of having those people yell back at me, "WHY DO YOU FORCE YOUR BELIEF'S ON US"? just before they turn to mush, is somewhat disconcerting. But Meh, your choice. Completely irrelevant analogy, but I like the part about you yelling, "LOOKOUT!!!". That's ok with me. If you get "hinkey" about the government telling you not to smoke or how much soda to drink or how much emissions your car can have then I'm surprised that you want to make an exception about something that doesn't change your life in the slightest. Not only would I not want the government to decide how long I should dwindle in needless pain, unaffordable medical bills and grief that would ruin my family as well as the thought that the unbearable pain and ability to participate in nothing life offers is only eventually going to lead to my death anyway, I sure wouldn't want the reason to be to appease your religious beliefs. BTW, can you name anything that has been forced on you by the government that has limited your right to worship?
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Much of the controversy today is not precisely about religious freedom but is instead over matters of fact and truth. Abortion, homosexuality, genetic experimentation, and euthanasia are not primarily “religious” issues but rational ones. On these life issues, not a few religions have come to embrace what are, in effect, irrational “rights” that contradict reason. Therefore, “religious freedom” is really, at bottom, a philosophical and political issue because it pertains to what a reasonable politics can rightly allow. Though religious freedom, in its American form, was almost unique in the world when it was first established at the nation’s founding, this liberty had been almost taken for granted in this country until recently. Now its erosion is suddenly well-advanced. Its very meaning is in doubt. The belated realization of this change in understanding of religious liberty has alerted some few, perhaps too few, to the seriousness of the issue. Indeed, the change extends beyond American borders since our government often seeks to require its new understanding of religious liberty on others as a requirement of any aid or help. Religious liberty is still, however, the reason why many believers leave their country of origin in search of another where their beliefs are welcome. This emigration today is especially from Muslim countries, where “religious liberty” means, basically, that everyone should be Muslim, or if not, agree to second-class citizenship. Any valid theory of religious liberty would allow major religions to hold that its position is true, provided it was not imposed by force or coerced in some other way. Every January 16 since 1996, the American president has issued a proclamation setting aside that day as Religious Freedom Day. The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom keeps extensive files on religious freedom in most countries. While most declarations retain the phrase “religious freedom,” it has been noted that around 2010, the phrase, “freedom of worship,” rather than “freedom of religion” sometimes appeared. If we understand “freedom of religion” to mean “freedom of worship,” does it make any difference? Small errors in the beginning lead to huge errors in the end, as Aristotle long ago remarked. Freedom of worship, at least in idea, seems to be designed to distinguish or separate religious freedom from freedom to worship. Even when the term “freedom of religion” is used, many of the actions of the current U.S. government, such as those forcing religious believers to support government programs contrary to their faith, indicate that “freedom of worship” is meant. The distinction thus conveniently backs up the Obama administration’s moves to place all health, education, and charitable organizations under the umbrella of state control. Consequently, I am “free” to believe or say what I want within the walls of a church or place of worship. This view implicitly takes all religious people out of the public realm if their religious or philosophical view is contrary to that of the state. This position is the modern version of the political views developed by Marsilius of Padua and Thomas Hobbes. Religion must be solely internal with no public effects. The state controls all external actions. This exercise of control is what the change in wording was designed to accomplish. http://www.crisismagazine.com/2014/obamas-right-to-worship-ushers-in-new-state-religion
Last edited by 40YEARSWAITING; 09/14/15 02:26 PM.
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Abortion, homosexuality, genetic experimentation, and euthanasia are not primarily “religious” issues but rational ones. I would love to hear a rationality-based argument as to why the government should ban same sex marriage or euthanasia.
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... California lawmakers approve
right-to-die legislation
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