The interviews ....... - DawgTalkers.net

yea....

It's the GOOD LIFE!!! Couldn't get any easier IMO. And you have better job security for the most part as well.

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j/c

Like many have said, if getting Pioli means hiring Ferentz as our HC than I want nothing to do with him.

i want to chime and agree with this too-very few college coaches have made it in the NFL

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i want to chime and agree with this too-very few college coaches have made it in the NFL

very few? give me ONE....

JUST SAY NO!

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very few? give me ONE.... JUST SAY NO!

Dick Vermiel and Barry Switzer

Both started out as college coaches and both have superbowl rings...

Jimmy Johnson has 2 superbowl rings.

How could you ever forget Paul Brown....

There is four without even thinking about it..

Jimmy Johnson didnt do to badly

Well I'm 25.. lol... I remember Jimmy Johnson for sure.... but the other guys.... before my time I guess.. lol.

Paul Brown was before your time,,but your a browns fan I think... I would hope you did some research on your on favorite team..

Vermiel just won the Superbowl in 98 or 99.. I think 99 with the Rams.. Switzer won the superbowl with the Cowboys in 95 or 96. not sure which without looking it up and I don't feel like it..

J/K

Been doing some reading and it seems that the Boston Globe has been putting out some stories that are not factual.

...such as the idea that Pioli was given a timeline and he "had to" tell Lerner today whether he would take the Browns job or not....it's not true according to the Plain Dealer web page

Another claim we are hearing that may not be factual is the idea that Pioli and Ferentz are a package. Ferentz is trying to knock those claims down web page

As I attempted to explain earlier, we are going to hear a lot of "stuff" and to be honest, we won't know if it's true or not unless someone addresses each and every rumor to our satisfaction.

Try to be patient...

Well shoot YTown, I'd be happy to secondguess you if you need a hand. Proof will be in the pudding. Hope springs eternal in Cleveland; after all, there is always next year, right? Just kidding!

Call me crazy Mac, but isn't that what I've been trying to say for a day now.. reports just aren't going to be factual,,, Until they are... till then, it's all guess work by the reporters... by the way, different agenda equals different guesses. Funny how that works isn't it

Of course it is...what's new??

Reports come out....some based on actual information, some based on supposition based on the prior report.

People try to connect dots.

Somewhere in there we are left to sift through.

So...while sifting...here is my take....

Lerner wants Pioli.....pretty self evident

Pioli wants Ferentz....makes some sense as they go back many years to the Browns

Lerner wants Mangini....just guessing here

Pioli won't work with Mangini....makes sense again considering Spygate

Other guess on my part.....The herald article may have been accurate when it came out, and now the PD article is correct....things change...and they can change quickly.

To Ferentz...I don't know he would be a bad coach....he has coached in the NFL...think he started under Marty as O-line coach.

To Macs article of research on Ferentz...all he is saying is things are premature...he isn't denying anything ...and that could be a real honest comment...he has to wait for Pioli to get hired before anything with him could be finalized.

I think there is enough smoke to give some credence to the Pioli/Ferentz connection.

In the end, either Lerner is going to have to come off some of his ideas or we can forget Pioli...and the way this is playing out, it might be best if we did...I would rather have someone who is eager to be here and not someone who feels right off the bat he has given something up, or a owner who feels like he gave up too much.

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Dick Vermiel

Vermiel was in the NFL for over 20 years before he won the SB. I dont think Browns fans have that much patience

Only 2 coaches ever won the college National Championship and the SB- Switzer and Johnson

How many of those teams have experienced top notch coordinators?

I believe that the OC and DC are just as important as the HC. Crennell had hamburger for coordinators we need some prime rib.

Balt - Rex Ryan and Cam Cameron
Pitt - Dick Lebeau and Bruce Arians
Miami - Dan Henning and Paul Pasqualoni
Atlanta - Mike Mularky and Brian VanGorder
Minnesota - Leslie Frazier and Darrell Bevell
Carolina - Mike Trgovac and Jeff Davidson
Arizona - Clancy Pendergast and Todd Haley

If you ask me, that's a pretty stellar group of coordinators.

Didn't we run

Arians & Davidson out of town ?

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Didn't we run

Arians & Davidson out of town ?

Heck, let's pair them with Bill Bellichek who also got rode out of town!!

Add Romeo on the D-side of the ball and you have what 12 rings between them?

That's what I was thinking looking at Aerians and Davidson's names on there. It's all about circumstance and personnel.

Arians walked into a good O...a caveman could run a good O in Carolina with Stewart and DW running the ball.

Problem with star Cords - they leave. That's why you usually see a former head coach as one cord and an up and comer as another....the league splits between the old school guys and the new ones.

At this point I'm so frustrated with the Browns, I'm just going to close my eyes and wish they get it right sometime. I texted one of my Raiders fans a thank you for his 5th pick by them winning and his response....where we pick doesn't matter because we will pick the wrong guy anyway.

That's how I feel we are going. Savage was supposed to be the prized up and comer scout...we've had better but not stellar picks. Butch was a can't miss, next Jimmy Johnson following from Miami and the Cowboys SB linniage. He was a flop.

Palmer was an up and comer...he flopped.

Romeo was supposed to be the stable, experienced coach that had been coaching so long he couldn't fail or not be get his players ready or fail at game-time adjustments and clock management....FLOP.

We've gone the star cordinator route twice - FLOP.
We've gone the college guru once - FLOP.

Then we look at all the new coaches this year without success and it sickens me to think we missed and are back on the road of hiring a guy we are just going to fire in 2-3 seasons.

Cowher would NEVER work here because the Rooney's got a ring out of him because they waited. Just like Marty was run out of town. We just aren't a patient group of fans.

Lerner, I don't care who, how, what title or what you gotta pay...just for the Love of God, GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME!!!!

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Cowher would NEVER work here because the Rooney's got a ring out of him because they waited. Just like Marty was run out of town. We just aren't a patient group of fans.

I remember most fans being upset by Marty being fired. Everyone just forgot because Bud Carson came in and beat Pittsburgh 51-0 in his first game. This is when most fans I knew started to turn on Modell. We didnt have message boards back then to get wider range on what the fans want.

But your right, I was thinking the same thing earlier. If Cowher was in Cleveland under Modell, he would have gotten fired before he won a Super Bowl because he did lose a lot of big games. Im never in favor of firing a coach after finishing 12-4.

Were not the only impatient fans. I remember visiting family around Pittsburgh when they werent doing so good and I did hear alot of people at the bars wanting a new coach. Luckily for them the Rooneys are smarter then they are, dont care what the fans think, and kept him around

Im not saying the vast majority but I did hear it enough.

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Vermiel was in the NFL for over 20 years before he won the SB. I dont think Browns fans have that much patience

Only 2 coaches ever won the college National Championship and the SB- Switzer and Johnson

SO,, that wasn't the question I was answering.. whoever it was wanted to know if anyone could name just one coach that was successful as a college coach and then successful as an NFL Coach.. within seconds, i was able to name 4..

What difference does it make when they were successful or what level they reached in either college or the Pros.. that wasn't the question.

But to your point about vermiel,, yeah, it took him from 1976 with the eagles to 1999 with the rams to win the superbowl.. But he got the Eagles to it in 1980.. And if you are going to point out the number of years, you should probably point out that Vermiel was out of coaching for about 16 years between stints with the eagles and rams... take that out and suddenly, you can see that in maybe 7 or 8 years of actual NFL coaching, he went to the superbowl 2 times and won once.

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Of course it is...what's new??

Nothing is new.. that's why I pointed it out to begin with

j/c

MEL TUCKER TO TALK TO JETS

Browns defensive coordinator Mel Tucker is suddenly a man in demand.

A league source tells us that Tucker will interview with the New York Jets for the team’s head-coaching position.

On Wednesday, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that Tucker will interview with the Browns for the job held most recently by Romeo Crennel.

Tucker, who is African-American, would permit the Jets and the Browns to satisfy the league’s Rooney Rule, which requires at least one minority candidate to be interview for every head-coaching vacancy.

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MCKAY CAN’T TALK TO BROWNS UNTIL FALCONS’ SEASON ENDS
Posted by Mike Florio on January 1, 2009, 9:02 p.m.

Though Falcons president Rich McKay still might interview with the Browns for their General Manager position, we’ve learned that the Browns can’t request permission to interview him until the Falcons’ playoff run ends.

Tony Grossi of the Cleveland Plain Dealer originally reported on Tuesday that McKay would be interviewed this week. Grossi explained that the Browns are “able to interview McKay while the Falcons are still involved in the playoffs because club executives are not subjected to the same league restrictions as coaches.”

The reality, however, is that front office employees are off limits until their current teams’ seasons end.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello quoted the rule for us on Tuesday, and he reiterated its general application to all front-office employees in an e-mail exchange today. (We had promised Greg that we wouldn’t bother him on New Year’s Day. So much for the New Year’s resolution that, moving forward, we will always keep all promises.)

As Aiello told us on Tuesday: “There is a general prohibition on contacting a club about one of its employees during the season. It states: ‘Unless otherwise provided for in this Policy, no club may request permission to discuss employment with a non-player, non-coach employee of another club, whether or not that employee is under contract, during the employer club’s playing season, defined as the period from the opening of preseason training camp through the club’s final game of the season, including postseason if applicable.’”

Though Aiello declined to comment on the application of the rule to specific employees and/or teams, the rule is clear. Even if the Falcons are anxious for McKay to leave, the interview cannot happen until after the Falcons’ season ends, because the Browns cannot request permission to speak to him.

In this case, it appears that the Browns did request permission prematurely, in violation of the rule. However, the league typically imposes a penalty in situations of this nature only if the team victimized by the violation pushes the issue. Thus, our guess is that someone at the league office politely reminded the Browns and the Falcons that the interview could not proceed until after the Falcons are out of the playoffs.

As a practical matter, the rule could remove McKay from consideration. If, in a wide-open NFC playoff field, the Falcons string a few wins together, the Browns might not be inclined to wait for McKay to become available for an interview.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/01/mckay-cant-talk-to-browns-until-falcons-season-ends/

Thank's for the read.

I always thought that rule only pertain to coaches.

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MCKAY CAN’T TALK TO BROWNS UNTIL FALCONS’ SEASON ENDS

Go Cardinals!

The more I read about PIOLI and McKay, I am leaning to McKay. Because I think Pioli is playing us. Which I think is BULL!!!!

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j/c

MEL TUCKER TO TALK TO JETS

Browns defensive coordinator Mel Tucker is suddenly a man in demand.

A league source tells us that Tucker will interview with the New York Jets for the team’s head-coaching position.

On Wednesday, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that Tucker will interview with the Browns for the job held most recently by Romeo Crennel.

Tucker, who is African-American, would permit the Jets and the Browns to satisfy the league’s Rooney Rule, which requires at least one minority candidate to be interview for every head-coaching vacancy.

web page

This is so wrong it's funny.

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Cowher would NEVER work here because the Rooney's got a ring out of him because they waited. Just like Marty was run out of town. We just aren't a patient group of fans.

Lerner, I don't care who, how, what title or what you gotta pay...just for the Love of God, GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME!!!!

I was wondering and I haven't seen this discussed...We approached Cowher about the HC job, and we are pretty sure Lerner would like to have a GM and a coach as two seperate entities. Cowher said he didn't want to coach in 09, but did we approach him at all about just being a GM, like Ozzie Newsome. You state to "GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME!!!!", His initial and first priority was Cowher, which I think is the right choice. I would do whatever it is to get the right choice ...well - right this time. Anything else is a crapshoot and it has to burn Lerner deep inside that in 4 years or less he could be doing this all over again. I'm sure he is an odds man and hates the fact that the odds are not in his favor and it looks as though we are in the same position we seem to be in every four years. When he thinks of McDanials or Pioli or Mangini or Ferentz do you honestly think he thinks they are the answer? Do you think he would sleep soundly after making a decision on one of them? He probably has visions of Savage or Butch or Romeo in his head. I bet the only way he would feel in good hands and sleep well is if he had his first choice and that won't happen.....unless he makes it happen. People change their minds, they just need some help sometimes. I couldn't picture Cowher anywhere else but the AFC and the North in particular. It is all he has ever known and the history and the Rivalry. I could see him in Tennessee(Houston), but I don't see Fisher leaving...

I am to the point now, where I would rather see Marty Coaching here again as option B, with a Mckay as GM. After that I would like a Spagnola or Schwartz. Those guys they have flat out are motivated. Something is driving them to perform at a high level and someone is behind it... If you put Justin Tuck on last years Browns team...you would have a Wimbley clone. All the potential and physical skills...but no drive. Yes he plays....but do you think he is highly motivated? A pass rusher should be able to get 4 sacks on accident a year...Wimbley simply slipped because he was allowed to slip.

Looking for a Browns coach

By Steve Doerschuk
CantonRep.com staff report

Last update Jan 02, 2009 @ 12:46 AM

Browns owner Randy Lerner is tired of the Browns partying like it’s 1999.

In an attempt to get the expansion era off the ground, Lerner rang in the new year scrambling through general manager and head coaching options.

Pending his hiring of a general manager, the following shaped up among the most serious coaching candidate. An analysis:

Josh McDaniels

Lerner might like

* As offensive coordinator at New England, indications are Bill Belichick has trusted him with a lot of rope. He’s at the controls on Sundays, not a puppet.

His 2007 New England offense set NFL records for yards and points.

* His 2008 offense proved he’s resilient, ranking among league leaders in rushing offense despite key injury losses and among the passing leaders despite using a quarterback who hadn’t started since high school.

* He has coached both defense and offense at New England and has a strong sense for special teams, having been a place-kicker at McKinley High School.

* He’s bright and likable and would have a good chance to connect to the public. There is ample evidence his players learned to overlook his youth and embrace his ability.

Lerner might worry

* No matter how you slice it, 32 is an alarming age for a first-time head coach. Pittsburgh’s Mike Tomlin turned 35 shortly after the Steelers hired him, but he had a safety net, with seasoned coordinators Dick LeBeau and Bruce Arians remaining in place.

* Romeo Crennel might help if he stayed, but it would have to be weighed whether Crennel, who had McDaniels on his New England defensive staff as a low-level assistant just five years ago, would embrace calling the kid “boss.”

Mike Shanahan

Lerner might like

* No one else on the market has Shanahan’s combination of relative youth and NFL head coaching experience.

* At 56, he’s five years younger than Crennel.

* In 15 years as Denver head coach, his record was 139-82, with two Super Bowl wins and a trip to the AFC finals as recently as 2005.

Lerner might worry

* Ten seasons have passed since Shanahan was in a Super Bowl. His only playoff win since then was in 2005 (27-15 over New England).

* In his only other playoff seasons during that span, he was one and done in 2000 (21-3 loss to Baltimore), 2003 (41-10 loss to Indianapolis) and 2004 (49-24 loss to Indy).

Rex Ryan

Lerner might like

* Ryan’s father, Buddy, is regarded as one of the top defensive minds in NFL history, and the apple seems not to have flown away from the tree.

* Rex Ryan’s Baltimore defenses have been typically superb. This year’s unit ranked second in the league overall and gave up half as many rushing yards as the Browns.

* Insiders say Ryan can communicate well with players and the public.

* At 46, with 12 years in the NFL, he could be at the right time of life to hit the ground running as a head coach.

Lerner might worry

* Baltimore found reasons to bypass Ryan and instead hire John Harbaugh as head coach in 2008.

* He might not trust Lerner, depending on what his longtime Baltimore associate Phil Savage tells him.

Eric Mangini

Lerner might like

* He might have been too young to be a first-time head coach, but now he has three years of experience with the Jets and will turn 38 in two weeks.

* He could keep Crennel on the staff in a capacity that suits him better than head coach.

* When Crennel became defensive coordinator in New England in 2001 and needed a place to stay, Mangini reached out and took him in. They have been strong friends ever since.

* Mangini and Crennel were key men on Patriots defenses that won three Super Bowls.

* Mangini inherited a 4-12 Jets team in 2006 and led it to a 10-6 playoff season.

Lerner might worry

* Crennel was cheerful but not insightful or skilled in his communication with the public. Mangini tends to be humorless and bland, and not just in public. He struck some of his Jets players as too emotionless.

* Whereas he fashioned two 10-6 seasons with the Jets, his middle season was a disaster. Browns fans have suffered way too much to swallow a 1-8 start, which is where the Jets stood at one point in 2007.

* Mangini ruffled some feathers inside his former team, the Patriots, and raised some eyebrows elsewhere while becoming perceived as a Spygate snitch.

Jim Schwartz

Lerner might like

* He’ll definitely like the fact this Titans defensive coordinator has hung around Jeff Fisher the last 10 years. Lerner is a big fan of Fisher.

* Fisher coached the Titans for five years before breaking through to the playoffs. That coincided with the arrival of Schwartz in ’99, when Tennessee contained and almost beat the mighty Rams in the Super Bowl.

* Coached in the playoffs in four other season, and is there as a No. 1 seed this year.

* Schwartz, 42, not only coached in Cleveland (1995) but is perceived as having an affinity for the region. He combines youth and experience.

Lerner might worry

* Working with Fisher doesn’t make a man Fisher. Schwartz would be a young first-time head coach.

* Schwartz strikes some as being bright to a fault. He thinks so much of his own opinion that he tends to ignore others, a trait that can doom first-time head coach who must learn to delegate.

* The Titans’ had a top-five defense this year, but Schwartz’s side of the ball was no Music City Miracle for quite a while. From 2002-04, Butch Davis’ Browns allowed fewer points than the Titans.

I don't know who is good for us....

Yeah, there are a few good options for us...I think Mike Shanahan would be good just for the simple fact of how well he works with QB's, and I'm curious if his running game is his system, or the actual players he always plugs into it....I also like Marty, who he didn't put on the list....but I'm not sure if Marty can play well with a GM.....

And Turk, feel the LOVE rolling outta the stands, week in & week out! Line up to pat your back, compliment your mama, it is all sweetness and light in the Bigs! Step right up coach!

I will help him pack, and he has 20-20. Right up there with the Favre move IMO. I wish him a safe trip. Maybe if he is allowed or told to run a real defensive scheme, he might be a DC, not a placeholder. Our secondary sucked mightily, despite all the official noise about youth and improvement and a few plays here and there. Stoopid sets, covers, no blitz help, and seldom got themselves off the field. Gone.

Josh McDaniels

Mike Shanahan

Rex Ryan
Eric Mangini
Jim Schwartz

Shanahan has the best football mind out there of the bunch..he'll find a way to beat you.

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Eric Mangini

Lerner might like

* He might have been too young to be a first-time head coach, but now he has three years of experience with the Jets and will turn 38 in two weeks.

shep...thanks for the post

...Concerning Mangini...it bothers me to hear the Jets players talking of a locker room split concerning Brett Favre and now so openly taking to the media now. It's obvious that the Jets players don't want Favre back.

A good HC would have noticed the problem and addressed it and not allowed it to fester to this point. Then again, it appears that no one is in charge in New York now?

It makes one wonder, who made the decision to bring Favre in.

It's looking like the Jets are a horribly run franchise, worse than the Browns.

I've not warmed up to Mangini and the more I hear from the Jets players, I believe he's wrong for Cleveland, in any capacity.

I tend to agree Mac.....the vibes are all wrong, and the reports coming out of NY display that it was a team in obvious disarray.

I would hope we go with Shanahan or even Dan Reeves. Kinda leery of going the Ferentz route........just in wait and see mode, not gonna clamor too much about it because it will do no good. *shrug*

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I've not warmed up to Mangini and the more I hear from the Jets players, I believe he's wrong for Cleveland, in any capacity.

Not for nothin, but this jones guy for the Jets says that Mangini isn't the reason for the team failures.. he puts it all on Favre.. at least that's whats being said on ESPN..

Like I said, Not for nothin... but maybe Mangini isn't the culprit the Jets managment would have you believe. Still, there is something about him that doesn't exactly warm my heart either. Can't quite put my finger on it.

Maybe it's the emotionless comment.

jk to add this...

Cleveland Browns like Eric Mangini, Scott Pioli, too. Can they get them both?

by Mary Kay Cabot, Plain Dealer Reporter
Friday January 02, 2009, 6:11 AM

The Browns' strong interest in fired Jets coach Eric Mangini could impact their search for a front-office executive, a league source with knowledge of the situation said Thursday.
The Browns interviewed Mangini on Tuesday night and were impressed with him. They interviewed Patriots Vice President Scott Pioli on Wednesday and liked him, too.

But it's unknown if the two would be willing to work together after the Spygate scandal, so for the Browns, it might come to this: Do they hire the coach they love or the general manager they love?

If the Browns hire Mangini, knowing there is evidence that the coach is the biggest indicator of a franchise's success, he'd probably already have his own right-hand personnel man in mind. If they hire Pioli, he'd undoubtedly be given the authority to hire his own coach.

One thing is certain: The Browns want their coach and GM in complete synch this time, so they'd let each man choose his partner. Pioli and Mangini were once close, but it is unknown exactly where they stand after the yearlong controversy over the Patriots' taping of the Jets' defensive signals.

Pioli left his meeting with the Browns still intent on going through with his scheduled interview with the Kansas City Chiefs. A source told The Plain Dealer on Thursday that the two sides parted ways with no timeframe for a decision from Pioli. The source said a report in the Boston Herald that the Browns gave him a deadline of Thursday was untrue.

The Browns were scheduled to interview Falcons President Rich McKay on Thursday, but the interview was postponed because McKay wanted to focus on Atlanta's playoff game Saturday in Phoenix against the Cardinals, a source said. Foxsports.com's Jay Glazer also reported Thursday that McKay and the Browns talked but "McKay informed them he is happy where he is and did not want to interview for the job or consider it until after the rest of the candidates had run their course in Cleveland."

Perhaps McKay sensed the Browns were going in a different direction, and that direction would be either Pioli or Mangini.

The Browns continue to interview other head coaching candidates, but it could be difficult for any of them to trump Mangini. They interviewed Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo on Thursday and will meet with Titans defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz on Saturday. They've also received permission to interview Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels and will interview Browns defensive coordinator Mel Tucker over the next couple of days.

Tucker also will interview for the Jets' head coach vacancy, profootballtalk.com reported Thursday.

If none of those candidates outshine Mangini, the Browns - who want to act fast - could offer Mangini a contract soon.

But the Browns also were of the mind that things could change quickly and that Pioli could be ready to leave New England. A source said Pioli had things to work out before making up his mind on what he wanted to do.

Spagnuolo also interviewed with the Lions on Thursday and will meet with the Jets on Saturday. He's believed to be the Jets' No. 1 candidate. McDaniels also is being wooed by the Broncos, ESPN.com reported.

The Browns are still interested in talking to fired Broncos coach Mike Shanahan, but he is not expected to be a top candidate.

Meanwhile, Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz, who would reportedly be on Pioli's short list of candidates, said Thursday after the Outback Bowl: "Scott's a great friend of mine and I think it's a mutual thing. I think it's presumptuous to think anybody knows what he's doing right now. He and I haven't talked in three weeks. We've both been doing our jobs. I've got a great job at Iowa. I've said that many, many times. The people are fantastic and I just feel very fortunate."

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:
mcabot@plaind.com, 216-999-4670

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What would you rather have?

An experienced GM and a rookie coach, or an experienced coach and a rookie GM?

I'm not certain about either guy. (Pioli & Mangini)
ANYBODY that worked with Bill Belleyache as a GM or defensive guy is suspect to me. Bill had final say in selecting draft players and is the REAL defensive guru.

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Eric Mangini

Lerner might worry

* Crennel was cheerful but not insightful or skilled in his communication with the public. Mangini tends to be humorless and bland, and not just in public. He struck some of his Jets players as too emotionless.

Sounds a little like Bill's stint in Cleveland. Bill learned from it - has Eric and is the same potential there?

X/O Coaching potential, player management skills, chemistry with GM, public perception - almost none of the primary factors for considering a coach are truly quantifiable and all are most are subject to change over time.

I don't envy the position Lerner is in. Focus on the GM and let him choose the coach. Lerner has a better chance of making the right pick there than dabbling in the coach selection process.

An experienced GM and a rookie coach, or an experienced coach and a rookie GM?
A experienced GM and a experienced coach..and it is available to the Browns..

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A experienced GM and a experienced coach..and it is available to the Browns..

Yeah, it is......there are a number of options out there.....it just takes money...I would think that Lerner has learned (lol, that's funny...Lerner has learned) his lesson....look at the past Clevelnad coaches since he brought them back.....Chris Palmer...Butch Davis...Romeo Crennel....none of which had any head coaching experience.......and maybe a handful of winning seasons between all of them...if that.....I would not take that chance again.....you got some really good coaches out there.....pair them up with a good GM and be done with it......that way your not rebuilding the staff every other year as well as the team.....

Have we interviewed anyone besides Pioli and McKay for the GM job yet?

I don't think so........not real sure.....

Quote:

Have we interviewed anyone besides Pioli and McKay for the GM job yet?

To my knowledge, Pioli is the ONLY GM candidate we've talked too.. McKay isn't available to us (as we've recently found out) until the Falcons are out of the playoffs...

The HC candidates we've talked to so far have been Cowher, Mangini and Spags.. maybe McDaniels, but no confirmation on that yet. (not that I've seen or heard anyway)

Of those that Lerner is planning on interviewing for HC, I know of only Shanahan and Schwartz and maybe Rex Ryan from Balto. At least that's the reports we've all seen in the various articles on the subject.

I've not heard even ONE WORD about him talking to Marty Schottenheimer which just amazes me to no end.

j/c

Didn't see this posted (latest thoughts from Pluto)

Scribbles in my Browns notebook
by Terry Pluto, Plain Dealer Columnist Friday January 02, 2009, 12:15 AM

Don't be surprised if Eric Mangini becomes a major figure as the Browns look for both a coach and a general manager. The former New York Jets coach met with the Browns on Tuesday, and they came away impressed. The Browns want a different-type coach from Romeo Crennel, with more emphasis on discipline and organization, and they think Mangini could be the guy.

The Browns prefer not to hire a rookie coach. They have done a ton of research and believe a coach in Mangini's position -- having spent a few years with one team, then fired -- often is much better the second time around. Tony Dungy (fired by Tampa Bay, Super Bowl in Indianapolis) and Bill Belichick (fired by Art Modell, Super Bowls in New England) are two recent examples. Mangini spent three years as the Jets' coach: 10-6, 4-12 and 9-7. He will be 38 on Jan. 19.

Based on their research, the Browns believe a new coach's most important hires are the offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, offensive line and defensive back coaches. The research also shows rookie head coaches often swing and miss in two of those key four hires -- whereas experienced head coaches have more success building a staff that works well together.

Yes, the Browns will talk to some assistants who have not been head coaches before, but it does not seem to be the direction that they want to go now.

Looking back to 2005, Randy Lerner was a rookie owner who hired a rookie GM in Phil Savage and a rookie head coach in Crennel. The two coordinators -- Todd Grantham and Maurice Carthon -- also were rookies. The Browns don't want to get through all that again.

The Browns are not sure where they stand with New England Vice President Scott Pioli. Kansas City is also courting him and it would not be a shock if he decided to stay in New England for another season. Like Bill Cowher, he can go on the market after the 2009 season and still be a hot item. I sense the Browns would love to put together Pioli and Mangini. Supposedly, the two with Belichick roots still get along despite Mangini turning in Belichick on the Spygate charges.

Leadership, communication skills and creating an identity for the team remain on the top of the list as the Browns interview coaches and executives. After firing Crennel and Savage, they targeted these three experienced football men: Mike Holmgren, Cowher and Pioli. Holmgren and Cowher say they will sit out 2009. They did interview Pioli, but realize they have to find other candidates. When Mangini was fired Monday, the Browns were immediately intrigued because they like his leadership skills.

What about the Jets' collapse? Mangini had them off to an 8-3 start, then they lost four of five to miss the playoffs. There were problems, but the biggest was the arm injury to Brett Favre. In the 8-3 start, Favre had 20 TD passes and 13 interceptions. In the 1-4 decline, it was two TDs and nine interceptions as Favre was playing with a torn bicep.

Quarterbacks can make or break coaches. Derek Anderson's hot start saved Crennel's job in 2007 and helped the coach to a contract extension. The Jets thought Favre had a better chance of staying healthy than Chad Pennington, whom they cut. Pennington went to Miami, didn't get hurt and made team president Bill Parcells look like a genius as he had 19 TDs compared with seven interceptions.

If the Browns do hire Mangini, they must pair him with a GM who is committed to the coach. Part of the Browns' problem in 2008 was a huge split between the front office and coaching staff over several players. That led to finger pointing from both directions. The Browns see how the Indians and Cavaliers stay not just on the same page, but even in the same sentences when their GMs and head coach/manager appear in public.

As for Mike Shanahan, the Browns might talk to him. But the former Denver coach has won only one playoff game since 1999, and is .500 over the past three seasons. As of now, he does not appear to be at the top of the list. Nor is Marty Schottenheimer in the current picture. Everything is subject to change, but Mangini is in the center of conversation right now.

Pluto scribbles article

"very few? give me ONE..."

Well maybe you might remember another...Bill Walsh, HC of Stanford prior to getting his stint with the 49ers.

Look I think that most big name college coaches in the present era fail cause to get lured away they want and get FULL CONTROL.

In this scenario Ferentz would not. He could concentrate on ONE HAT...Team organization in preparation - Coaching.

Also what I do like is that his NFL experience was with us as our OL COACH

and so many who worked with him saw him as some sort of SURE THING future HC....Ozzie in Balt. Savage, Pioli. All three had similar roots but have very different Football directions...but all three like Ferentz a lot!

If Pioli is hired...I'm buying in with the Ferentz thing

JMHO

Agreed EO

j/c link

THURSDAY GOES, AND PIOLI REMAINS A CLEVELAND CANDIDATE
Posted by Mike Florio on January 2, 2009, 11:16 a.m. EST

One of the more bizarre developments of New Year’s Day arose in connection with the ongoing courtship of Pats V.P. of player personnel Scott Pioli by the Cleveland Browns.

The Boston Herald trumpeted that the Browns had given Pioli a deadline of Thursday.

The Cleveland Plain Dealer responded by reporting that no such deadline applies.

So it’s now Friday, and Pioli has yet to accept the job. And the Browns have yet to pull the plug on the discussions.

So the Herald was wrong. And, amazingly, the Friday item from the authors of Thursday’s piece, Ron Borges and Karen Guregian, fails to acknowledge the fact that the Thursday story was flat-out incorrect.

Instead, they speculate that the postponement of Falcons president Rich McKay’s interview is a “telling sign” that Pioli and the Browns are “continuing to iron out differences and forge a union.”

Um, no. The reality (as we’ve pointed out twice now) is that McKay can’t interview with the Browns until the Falcons’ season ends, since McKay is a high-level employee of the Falcons.

Why did the Herald famously retract its February 2008 report of Patriots spying at Super Bowl XXXVI but then ignore its more recent error? Well, the last time around, they faced real and substantial legal liability. This time, they only face embarrassment — if, of course, anyone realizes that the Thursday report was so grossly wrong.

So that’s the lesson, kids. Only admit you were wrong when necessary to do so in order to avoid being sued. In every other instance, shut up and hope no one notices.

Meanwhile, the folks who pound the keys at ESPN.com continue to perpetuate the notion that the Browns have given deadline, via this headline: “Report: Browns want Pioli decision soon.”

And yet there’s no reason to disregard the Plain Dealer report that the Browns have not imposed any deadline, whether it be Thursday, Friday, February 1, or the vague notion of “soon.”

Meanwhile, there’s growing speculation in league circles that misinformation regarding Pioli’s status and his supposed demands is coming either from Browns employees who fear losing their jobs — or from Patriots executives who fear losing Pioli.

Oh, so good to see PFT get something right... and then pat themselves on the back for it. By the way, Go Cardinals!!

I have asked the " Why not Marty Question " several time ???? Just curious why Lerner wouldn't at least sit down and have a pow-wow

.. Lerner just might Learn Something

As far as HC. goes >>> There are several names I like , both new and old.. The one name I don't want to hear is Mangini ...

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As far as HC. goes >>> There are several names I like , both new and old.. The one name I don't want to hear is Mangini ...

I'm with you on that...I can't think of one good reason at all to hire him....

Quote:

Quote:

As far as HC. goes >>> There are several names I like , both new and old.. The one name I don't want to hear is Mangini ...

I'm with you on that...I can't think of one good reason at all to hire him....

Then you can't be thinking VERY hard

Unless you don't count his experience for anything, or his commitment to discipline and organization. Yes, if you don't like those three things it mihgt be hard to THINK of one good reason to hire him...

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I'm with you on that...I can't think of one good reason at all to hire him....

So let's hear all the good reasons to NOT hire him. Aside from the fact that he was just fired from the Jets.

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I'm with you on that...I can't think of one good reason at all to hire him....

So let's hear all the good reasons to NOT hire him. Aside from the fact that he was just fired from the Jets.

He was just fired from the J-E-T-S.....lol.....

I forgot one other candidate that is scheduled to interview for the GM job...

TJ McCrieght (sp) I think his current title is Dir. of Player Personnel for the Browns..

he's got a decent resume.. not like McKay or even Pioli.. but decent..

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T.J. McCreight
Director, Player Personnel
T.J. McCreight is in his fourth season with the Browns and was elevated to the position of Director, Player Personnel in 2007 after serving the previous two seasons as Assistant Director, Player Personnel.

McCreight’s duties with the team include assisting in pro scouting, advance scouting of upcoming opponents, unrestricted free agency and assisting the college scouting staff in preparation for the NFL Draft. McCreight also assists with contract negotiations with some draft selections.

McCreight spent the previous eight seasons (1997-2004) in the Baltimore Ravens personnel department, including his last two seasons with the Ravens’ as the club’s national scout. McCreight spent three seasons with Baltimore as the East area scout and was then assigned expanded coverage to scout players throughout the United States.

McCreight gained his football experience in the college ranks both as a player and a coach. He was a tight end at Liberty University (Lynchburg, Va.), where he played under former Browns head coach Sam Rutigliano. McCreight graduated in 1992 with a degree in marketing.

McCreight’s college coaching resume includes defensive line coach at Delaware State University from 1994-97 and receivers coach at Oberlin College in 1993. He and his wife, Linda, live with their son Matthew, 7, and daughter, Maggie, 5, in Bainbridge, Ohio.

It's really kinda funny when you read how these guys are evaluated.

Shanahan, who IMO is the best one out there, has won 2 SB's but hasn't done much lately,....OK then , I guess he kinda sucks now,..right? He's not on the top of our list? GMAB.
I'd take my chances with Shanahan in a minute.

Mangini has coached now for like 3 seasons, he must be good because when young coaches get fired they're usually better the second time around?

Ferentz?, A college coach that has never coached in the NFL would be good as long as we don't ask too much of him and give him very limited control. How silly would we look if this EXPERIMENT failed us again.....no thanks

If Lerner wants as close to a sure thing as he can get,..Shanahan should be a no brainer. To me, the coach is the most important piece. If we can't find a GM that would want Shanahan as their HC,.. I don't want him here..

I want a a proven NFL winner and there's only one available right now.

McCreight isn't going to get, no more than Tucker would actually be considered for the HC job.

If Pioli/McKay balk..then watch for Floyd Reese..

I could see McCreight staying on in some capacity, but I'm with you Attack. I doubt we'll *seriously* go after him for a GM job.

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I have asked the " Why not Marty Question " several time ???? Just curious why Lerner wouldn't at least sit down and have a pow-wow .. Lerner just might Learn Something

As far as HC. goes >>> There are several names I like , both new and old.. The one name I don't want to hear is Mangini ...

Why not Marty? Hmm, as GM, you can look at his past personnel decisions and there are many that are suspect.....as a HC, look at his playoff record, terrible.

How do you know there hasn't been any contact with him?

I'm still waiting for a real reason that Mangini is so terrible of a choice. He had 2 winning seasons out of 3. He is very disciplined. He has had success as a DC as well as HC. He has shown he isn't afraid to stand up for his team regardless of who he angers (spygate). He has ties to he Browns as a previous coach here. The only thing I've seen for a reason is that....well, haven't seen one, actually.

Listening to Floyd on ESPN makes me think he's not too bright...

Overall, I'm not sure I have a good feeling about what is about to end up happening to us....maybe that is a good thing as I liked bringing in Botch and Savage, but egos got in the way with those two.

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Well maybe you might remember another...Bill Walsh, HC of Stanford prior to getting his stint with the 49ers.

In this scenario Ferentz would not. He could concentrate on ONE HAT...Team organization in preparation - Coaching.

Also what I do like is that his NFL experience was with us as our OL COACH and so many who worked with him saw him as some sort of SURE THING future HC....Ozzie in Balt. Savage, Pioli. All three had similar roots but have very different Football directions...but all three like Ferentz a lot!

If Pioli is hired...I'm buying in with the Ferentz thing JMHO

Go ahead and buy into the "handfull of College coaches" who have actually had success over DECADES! Not in the past decade, but the past FIVE DECADES!

Your odds are slim to none and none is leading coming into the home stretch!

I kind of expect that from someone who can basicly write a 500 word essay on the positives of a game where we lose 31-10, but not everybody is the eternal optimist on very unlikely scenarios.

Don't get upset eo, but you do try to find the silver lining in every storm cloud. Unfortunately, we are in HUGE disaray right now. We're not the Cowboys when JJ came in.

And this isn't just a storm cloud. It's a full blown hurricane. And we saw the last time that a hurricane isn't an easy thing to deal with. We need experience. Experience is available.

No excuses for anything less. If Pioli is stck on Ferentz? Sorry, but I wouldn't even rent it, much less buy it.

Are you looking for flood land in Florida? I mean if you're buying into long shots, I might as well gain from it too.

Lerner... Bring Shanahan in here.... Let him come to a real AFC conference.

LET's DO IT!!!

Jets players sad to see Mangini go

Dave Hutchinson/The Star-Ledger
Monday December 29, 2008, 2:30 PM

Of Eric Mangini's firing, Jets' WR Jerricho Cotchery said, "We all played a role."The firing of Jets coach Eric Mangini was met with shock and surprise by players Monday as they bagged their belongings and headed off into the offseason.

Almost to a man, players said they didn't see it coming and insisted they Mangini didn't lose the team. Several players said off the record that quarterback Brett Favre, not Mangini, is most responsible for their epic collapse.

Favre, of course, threw two touchdowns and nine interceptions in the final five games, four losses.

What's more, players said privately that the organization is simply trying to make a big splash with a high-profile coach as it prepares to enter their new stadium and Mangini was the sacrificial lamb. The organization, players said, wanted to act quickly so they could go after Bill Cowder before another team grabbed him.

Mangini addressed the team briefly at noon.

``Certain things you don't see coming and it catches you off guard,'' said cornerback Ty Law. ``It's unfortunate. Eric is a great coach. He deserves better, especially from us as players. ... No, he didn't lose the team. The guys were behind him 100 percent. To say he lost the locker room, no.''

``I'm surprised. I didn't see it coming,'' echoed tight end Chris Baker. ``The way this business is, you have to expect the unexpected, though.''

``Eric and I are good friends,'' said cornerback Darrelle Revis. ``I''m sure he's going to be somewhere else next year.''

Safety Kerry Rhodes pointed to the Jets' effort in their 24-17 loss to the Dolphins on Sunday as proof that they didn't quit on Mangini.

``We came out and we still fought,'' said Rhodes.

``Everyone played a role (in Mangini getting fired),'' said wide receiver Jerricho Cotchery. ``We should've done better as players. I could've done a better job of making plays. Eric is a good guy. It's tough to see him go.''

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2008/12/jets_players_sad_to_see_mangin.html

Teammates taking shots at Favre

Daily News Wire Services

Brett Favre was a "distant" teammate who should have been benched for the good of the team, according to two New York Jets players.
One of the players, quoted anonymously, told Newsday that when Favre was at the team's practice facility, he spent his down time isolated in an office specially designated for him.

"There was a lot of resentment in the room about him. He never socialized with us, never went to dinner with anyone," the player was quoted as saying.

There was nothing anonymous about running back Thomas Jones' comments Tuesday on New York Hot 97 FM radio. While the Jets went 1-4 down the stretch, Favre threw nine interceptions against just two touchdown passes.

"We're a team and we win together . . . but at the same time, you can't turn the ball over and expect to win," Jones said.

"The other day, the three interceptions really hurt us. I mean, that's just reality," Jones said, referring to the Jets' season-ending loss to Miami. "If I were to sit here and say, 'Oh, man, it's OK,' that's not reality . . . I don't like it, I know everybody else on the team doesn't like it."

The Jets' finish led to the firing of coach Eric Mangini. The interviews for his replacement begin today with internal candidates Brian Schottenheimer (offensive coordinator) and Bill Callahan (assistant head coach/offense).

Jets owner Woody Johnson has said he wants Favre to return. But Favre, who played with pain in his right shoulder that could be repaired arthroscopically, might wait until Mangini's successor is in place before deciding his future.

Said safety Kerry Rhodes: "If he's dedicated and he wants to come back and do this, and do it the right way . . . and be here when we're here in training camp and the minicamps and working out with us . . . then I'm fine with it. But don't come back if it's going to be halfhearted or he doesn't want to put the time in with us."

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/playbook/20090102_Teammates_taking_shots_at_Favre.html

We gotta GET that GUY!

Can you see the picture a little clearer now?

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I'm with you on that...I can't think of one good reason at all to hire him....

So let's hear all the good reasons to NOT hire him. Aside from the fact that he was just fired from the Jets.

Well, I will start with this season....you are starting to hear the truth come out about what was REALLY going on in the locker room..with Brett Favre, and how the players were upset with him.....with that being said, I'll tag that as reason #1....has trouble with maintaining control / leadership skills...

..

reason #2.....without knowing exactely how the GM / coaching situation is with the Jets, I will assume that Mangini has at least a say so.....with that said....getting rid of Chad Pennington for Brett Favre....that has got to be one of the dumbest moves ever.....and I think they got exactley what they deserved...getting put out by Chad.....the only reason they went 8-3 at first is because of Thomas Jones and the defense....Chad has always been picked apart because of his questionable arm strength......but he still manages to win...still manages to have one of the most acurate percentages in the history of the NFL..he has made other questinoable moves also, but I'm just trying to give the short version.so I would call this reason.....unable to notice talent if it slapped him in the face......

......

reason #3.......he is off of the Bellichek tree ........that pretty much says it all...without Bill pulling the strings, he is just another puppet..

...Bill is the mastermind in NE, and it is just silly for Cleveland to try and go back to that well....

....that is what scares me about Pioli as well.....

Again, just my opinions......

......

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I have asked the " Why not Marty Question " several time ???? Just curious why Lerner wouldn't at least sit down and have a pow-wow .. Lerner just might Learn Something

As far as HC. goes >>> There are several names I like , both new and old.. The one name I don't want to hear is Mangini ...

I gotta believe they are talking about Marty. Kosar has a history with both and has got to have Randy's ear about now. As to WHAT they are talking about and if Marty is even interested remains to be seen... I think we actually know VERY little about what's going on with the discussions and conference calls behind the scenes. Just because we don't see Marty ( or someone else) flying to NY to meet Randy doesn't mean much to me.

j/c

I may be in the minority here, but really I could care less if a coach or players for that matter have ties to Cleveland. This shouldn't even be a factor. We are a totally different organization then we were when most of these "Cleveland ties" came about.

I am hoping we interview Shanahan soon. I amnot totally against some of these assistant promotions, but I don't like the idea of Ferentz. Just a gut feeling I guess.

While you favor Macaroni...I would like to see Shazam in here...

I'm not against Ferentz....I think in the right situation, with the right assistants, he could win. I think he holds people accountable, is a really good man, and can flat out coach. Let's think of the most recent college to pro flops:

Butch Davis: Had full control of the organization, often went against the advice of his scouts, HUGE EGO
Steve Spurrier: Never an NFL assistant, tried to bring his video game offense to NFL, HUGE EGO
Nick Saban: Snake oil salesman, large say in personnel matters, HUGE EGO

Now, the important thing in those three are the egos they brought to the NFL. I think Saban and Davis are still great COACHES, but they tried to do too much. Spurrier is a great college coach, but that hiring was typical Dan Snyder big name hire.

The biggest thing for a head coach is to hold people accountable, maintain strick discipline, play no favorites, time & organization mgmt and respect his players. I think MOST of the coaches know there x's and o's, know game management, but it's the "soft" skills that they lack.

Is Mangini a better x's and o's coach then Ferentz??? Doubtful....probably as good....It's the other intangibles that are the most important. If Pioli comes in and thinks Ferentz is the best coach for him and they'll have mutual respect for each other and work as a TEAM, i'm all for it. I'd rather have that then Pioli and Mangini be on seperate sides and have a lot of tension in the room.

I have one main concern about that ATTACK or I might be leaning that way as well.

IF Shanahan would not demand full control and be willing to work under a GM, I'd be on your side. But for some reason, I don't see that happening. And that scares me.

I mean when he was in control in Denver, he took every crappy cast off from our D. And where did that lead?

So IF he was willing to come in as strictly the HC, I agree.

But what are the odds of that?

So I'm going with what I percieve to be the best "logical" candidate that would not want to wear all the hats at one time and that has shown GREAT potential as an NFL HC.

JMHO

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Go ahead and buy into the "handfull of College coaches" who have actually had success over DECADES! Not in the past decade, but the past FIVE DECADES!

I don't like the premise of that one...

College coaches???

1) Come to the NFL as HC with NO PRIOR NFL Experience...Full Control or Not...BAD...

2) Come to the NFL as HC WITH prior NFL experience...And gets full control...BAD...

3) Come to the NFL as a HC ONLY...WITH Prior NFL Experience in any shape or form...WHY NOT???...

3)

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I have one main concern about that ATTACK or I might be leaning that way as well.

IF Shanahan would not demand full control and be willing to work under a GM, I'd be on your side. But for some reason, I don't see that happening. And that scares me.

I mean when he was in control in Denver, he took every crappy cast off from our D. And where did that lead?

So IF he was willing to come in as strictly the HC, I agree.

But what are the odds of that?

So I'm going with what I percieve to be the best "logical" candidate that would not want to wear all the hats at one time and that has shown GREAT potential as an NFL HC.

JMHO

Completely agree!!! Shanahan as GM is horrible....he also took a lot of deadbeats with known issues (clarrett for one) besides his overall lack of talent brought in.

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3) Come to the NFL as a HC ONLY...WITH Prior NFL Experience in any shape or form...WHY NOT???...

Because right now? There are MUCH better choices available!

If we were in a situation where we were forced to do so because of a lack of experienced HC's on the market, maybe.

But that's simply not the case.

So with so much experience available........Why?

I'm only prompting Shazam as a HC..not a GM...if I were Lerner I'd get a face to face with Shazam ..
I wonder if this is the sticking point woth Pioli..he probably wants Ferentz..and Lerner wants a experienced HC..

I buy that and agree...

Shanahan and Mangini are my 2 choices...

IF we brought Ferentz here with full control???...NO WAY...Hell...Shanahan with full control is a NO WAY too...

With Pioli???...No reason to freak out...

Let's do an experiment Pitt, because I've always had the same belief that you do, but I would like to know if the numbers back up our thoughts. Let's make a list of coaches who have come from college and failed.........

1. Petrino
2. Spurrier
3. Botch
4. Erickson
5. Saban (this one is debatable, because he was begining to turn that around before he quit them. However, he did quit because he didn't like the NFL)
6. Lou Holtz

I can't think of any more, but feel free to add to the list

Now let's look at coaches from college who've had success in the NFL.....

1. Jimmy Johnson
2. Barry Switzer (and yes Pitt he won a SB that counts no matter who's players they were)
3. Bill Walsh
4. Paul Brown
5. Tom Coughlin
6. John Robinson
7.Dick Vermeil

Again if I left anyone off the list feel free to add to it.

Now let's look over the last 20 years of the NFL and look at the statistics........

Failed......

1.Spurrier
2. Botch
3. Petrino
4. Saban (going by previous conditions)

Success.......

1. Coughlin
2. Jimmy
3. Switzer

From these numbers, and again there might be some left off of either side, it seems that the success rate is about 50 percent regardless if we look over the past 50 or the past 20.

I hate to say it Pitt, but that is probably in line with hiring a coordinator or a retread as far as success percentages go. I think the whole college coaches can't make it in the NFL thing might be a media/fan creation, based on the recent failures we've seen............that seems to be what these numbers tell us.

Good point on the full control thing. Looking at the recent failures, all but one of them (Petrino) had full control. So was the failure a result of one man with too much power (and we've seen that universally regardless if it's a college/NFL experience coach), or a college transition problem. I tend to think it's the former.

I have no problem with Farentz after looking this up bro, as long as Pioli is calling the shots. i would actually have more of a problem giving Mangini full power, becuase I think those numbers of failed HC/GMs is much higher than failed college coaches. I just think if guys like Holmgren and Shannahan can't handle it then it's probably a fairly hard thing to do.

Wonder where USC's Carrol would fall into this catogory

USC has more talent than a pro team, probebly pays them better, but Carrol failed misurably in NE, so is he pro or is USC still considered college ?

I don't know...lol. For the purposes of this argument, I went by college coaches who've then proceeded to the NFL, and not vice versa. I mean by that argument you stated we'd have to put Bill Calahan as a success to. I just don't think those 2 apply.

I think the whole college coaches can't make it in the NFL thing might be a media/fan creation, based on the recent failures we've seen............
Because I think if you look at the situations they were hired in..they were mostly on losing teams..which doesn't bode well.

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Because I think if you look at the situations they were hired in..they were mostly on losing teams..which doesn't bode well.

True that....but any time a team hires a new coach, it's usually because the team is in trouble...Not after they made it to the playoffs the season before....usually that is......

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I think the whole college coaches can't make it in the NFL thing might be a media/fan creation, based on the recent failures we've seen............
Because I think if you look at the situations they were hired in..they were mostly on losing teams..which doesn't bode well.

Agreed, Many of them are successful because they recruit the players they want to fit thier system, in the NFL, your stuck many times bringing in your system you believe in but dont have the players to fit it, and many times the coachs dont get a chance to pick drafted players, they normally have to work with a GM who picks them, thus leaving you with a stsyem and the wrong players in it. Sometimes it works many times it dosent, Regardless I'm in favore of not trying it again.

I think it's becoming clear what Lerner wants to do. He wants to get a top head coach and let him pick his own personnel guy so there won't be the disconnect like there was between Crennel and Savage with picking the team in free agency and the draft. I heard he also would like Mangini b/c lots of coaches who win on other teams get run out of town and win elsewhere like Dungy, Shanahan, Belichick, etc. Sounds like a good plan to me. Getting a guy like Mangini or Shanahan or Spagnuolo would bea good move, and then letting them bring some of their own people in to pick the roster so we'd have harmony within the organization would be wise.

Agreed, but some of the success came into losing situations as well (JJ, Coughlin, Vermeal, etc.).

I just think that 3 out of the past 4 have been really bad, and it's created a perception that college coaches can't make it in the NFL. Sorry, but the evidence doesn't support that when you look at the numbers over the long term, or even intermediate term (20 years). I honestly think DnD is on to something when he talks about full control for a coach.........it's been a death sentence to the college coaches.

I hate to admit I was wrong, but when the facts stare you in the face it's hard to dispute. College coaches have just as much success in the NFL as any other coach hire statistically I would imagine.

"Go ahead and buy into the "handfull of College coaches" who have actually had success over DECADES! Not in the past decade, but the past FIVE DECADES!"

I know silly me...The two most successful dynasties over the last 30 years were put together by coaches who came from College HC jobs.

But we should put all considerations aside in some stereo type of College coaches.

I don't see the rule. I'm trying to think who recently came up that way??? Kiffen? who knows what kind of coach he would have become? But then again he wasn't even a college HC

I'm thinking of Butch and Spurrier...so all have to be duds??? Both were given full control and I think that factor spelled their failure more than anything. Butch with a strong GM actually might have been pretty good if you ask me.

Spurrier - forget about it...his ego is just too big.

but actually what coaches have failed....fact is most HC's come to the NFL via being an assistant rather than from the college ranks.

Its not like there is a ton of data of failures.

But there were 3 dynasties in the more modern Era...49ers, Dallas and Pats.

I find it quite HUMOROUS

that 2 of the 3 happen to have been hires from the college HC ranks. So be careful what you choose to laugh at. Using the icon and glomming it to my opinion don't make it foolish.

Actually out of that exchange one of us came out of it looking a bit foolish and it wasn't me

"I kind of expect that from someone who can basicly write a 500 word essay on the positives of a game"

And just what makes you feel superior by insulting me on a matter that has nothing to do with this subject...Does that make you feel better insulting my weekly Game Day thread What I Saw??? It bothers you so much that I do so and if you didn't have a reading disability I don't just do positives I do what I saw...I don't pursuade anyone else from putting in a negative. I am pretty consistent in what I ask. GO ahead Positives or Negatives...but share the insight with something that actually happened rather than a generalization...describe it in detail as YOU SAW IT.

Why the Insult to prove your point - and what exactly is your point??? That you know more than me...your opinion is better than mine

yeah real impressive.

"Don't get upset eo, but you do try to find the silver lining in every storm cloud."

Like wise...don't get upset cause you don't know jack about the subject matter at hand?

What a dumb statement...you insult me. You take offense that I do a weekly thread and people enjoy participating in it. And then you say - don't get upset.

Where am I projecting a silver lining.

Where am I being overly unreasonable...debate me with the subject but no you wish to prove you are correct and My thinking process is wrong by insulting me with no substance at all. I can understand how you would be afraid to debate me in actual football terms cause you would lose out. But just for fun give it a try

You might just learn something instead of insulting maybe you can actually become football educated and have meaningful discussions.!

OOOOoooo its not a storm cloud its a full blown Hurricane...ooooooo watch out its Armegeddon....

Its nothing compared to what we went through at the end of 2004! Nothing. And yet we survived and moved forward.

Championship team??? No we didn't get there....but we are going to start on a much more enviable position than before...how soon people forget the state of the Browns at the end of 04? Nothing close to the same. We have a team here that somebody can come in and tweak to their own and make them a winner.

Hmmm...lets see who has known and made a connection with Ferentz....Randy? Has he even spoke to the guy? Interviewed him?

From that era of young Football minds grew 3 very talented people. Ozzie, Pioli and Savage...you don't find it remotely odd that all three came away with the RESPECT they have of Ferentz...I mean ok one of them might be wrong. But ALL THREE???

Oh wait....Ozzie, Pioli, Savage - --- - or Pitdawg.
oh geeesh what am I thinking about - it must be Pitdawg who knows better???

Come on Pit- don't be foolish.

Because you cannot debate me don't come with that garbage about how REALISTIC you are and so is your opinion. While me I wish to see some positives that you LOSERS do not...and yeah every loser I ever met had that attitude - WE'RE DOOMED!!! Every one a LOSER. And you want me to follow that MANTRA. And you got to put down any positive thought of the situation?

The more I read and learn about Ferentz - the more I like about him.

I also think OL coaches in the NFL have a leg up on other asst. coaching jobs. Cause its like running a mini TEAM. Nobody tells you what to do...you take the scheme and the MINI-TEAM is the OL...they traing to YOUR PROGRAM, Conditioning, Technique, Practice, All separate from the team. Ferentz...Browns OL coach - young and considered very bright in the industry!

Yeah I know Pitdawg thinks he will be bad --- so bad that if Pioli dares to think otherwise...he is Dog meat?

I hope Pioli is our GM...I hope McDaniels or Ferentz is our next HC if that is who Pioli wants.

JMHO - if it doesn't work out that way (the way I want) guess what? We are not doomed - I actually have an open mind and there are other possibles. Reese with Spagnola or Mangini??? Who knows But doomed we are not. We are moving onto the next stage and the future is bright. Not cause I'm a die hard Browns fan and Unrealistically think so. I feel its bright for several reasons.

Quinn, BE, KW2, DA, Joe Thomas, ES, Dawson, Zad, JJ, Rogers, Corey, Robaire, DQ, EW, McD, Pool
along with many starters in place that are here but can be upgraded. Shaffer, Fraley, Shaun Smith, Harrison, Lewis, Wimbley, Stallworth.

No other regime coming in had this much talent to work with from the beginning. Turnover....sure there might be turnover. But lets say we don't like Rogers like the past regime didn't like Warren. Warren got us a 4th round pick...Rogers will get us a 1st rounder worst case if we wanted to get rid of him a 2nd rounder. Big big difference to help build the new team... Of course we are keeping Rogers

But attack me with Football not this personal garbage....and then say DON'T GET UPSET...how silly is that!

The thing is you want a experienced GM in place who knows what the team needs..and then hammer it out with the new coach..we suffered from a inexperienced GM trying to make decisions for a inexperienced HC..both were over their heads..

Can't we all just get along.......

......LOL

"I may be in the minority here, but really I could care less if a coach or players for that matter have ties to Cleveland. This shouldn't even be a factor. We are a totally different organization then we were when most of these "Cleveland ties" came about."

sorry for laughing I just thought that statement was very funny coming from a guy with a OSU banner and Pimping Wells

A must??? No, but not a bad thing. Look this team needs an Identity...Savage started to hit on it and then maybe got side tracked. But making the Browns into a Cleveland...Ohio football type of Identity is not that bad. Mainly cause so many freakin good football players have come from that hotbed!!!

JJ, Z and even Bentley, also others expressed some desire to come here. In Savage's first two years he spent a lot of extra scouting in the area. That is how we got guys like Cribbs, Sanders, then he sort of went away from it.

But also buying into the system is infectious. And if your coaching staff permeates a distinct LOVE for the TEAM. A bleed Brown n Orange attitude it rubs off. And if there is a good nucleus of players with the same attitude all the better. And if you draft kids coming from college who had that frame of mind which most do about their college and now can fill that void or create room in their hearts for a team as they did from HS to College...now NFL its good.

So ties with Cleveland is important but what it might be important for. Is a special person lets say Pioli who has refused to consider leaving the Pats for any other team but MAYBE THE BROWNs....how many come to us for interviews but only for leverage cause their first choice is Else where. Well these are talented Young Football Minds that WANT TO COME HERE as their dream job!

Its good not because that makes them smarter. Its good cause they might be the SMARTEST!!! and we would normally have no shot at bringing them here with other NFL teams wanting them...But we CAN

I know I'm just being UNREALISTIC and not dooming enough of the situation. We are the Scum of the earth and any one with ties to us must also be scum...that's directed to those who say my opinion don't count cause I'm too positive

JMHO

Agreed. I think I am more afraid of Lerner giving Mangini full power than I am of Pioli hiring Farentz at this point. I just don't think it's wise to give a HC full power, and not have a GM type calling the plays.

Why do you think RL would give Macaroni full cooking utensils?
I don't ...I think he wants both Pioli/Mangini ...

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McCreight isn't going to get, no more than Tucker would actually be considered for the HC job.

If Pioli/McKay balk..then watch for Floyd Reese..

yeah, I know,, but I remembered it after I wrote the other post answering someone elses question.....

I feel like I have a handle on Most of the HC's that are being talked about .. But not really a lot on McDaniels , the OC from New England .. Help a Dawg out ! .. You and I lock horns from time to time

but I could use our Opinion on this guy ???

Like most , I don't want to see a problem between GM and a HC. this time around ..

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McCreight isn't going to get, no more than Tucker would actually be considered for the HC job.

If Pioli/McKay balk..then watch for Floyd Reese..

yeah, I know,, but I remembered it after I wrote the other post answering someone elses question.....

Actually .... there would be no good reason to interview McCreight if he wasn't a serious candidate for GM. I am starting to think that he might be the guy, paired with Mangini. Mangini would be consulted as far as his preferred personnel guy ... and could bring in his preferred assistant coaches. (which would probably include some Jets assistants)

I'm starting to get a little worried.

I don't think Pioli is going to take the job and McKay has already said he's staying in Atlanta.

So like you said watch for Floyd Reese. I don't know how I feel about that. Basically we are bringing in the the 3rd guy on our radar and I don't even know if he's even on our radar. I haven't heard anything.

I'm starting to get the feeling that nobody even wants this job. I'm starting to get a bad feeling about this whole situation.

Don't forget about Parcells.........

When did McKay say he's staying?
U have link?

It may just turn out like that Ytown...One thing to think about is McCreight prefers Jim Schwartz from the Titans.....

nordawg

Lemme see if I can find it, I read it somewhere.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/01/01/rich-mckay-isnt-interested-in-browns-gm-job-this-is-good-new/

Good News, Scott Pioli: Rich McKay Isn't Interested in Browns' GM Job
Posted Jan 1st 2009 7:15PM by Ryan Wilson (author feed)
Filed under: Browns, Falcons, AFC North, NFC South, NFL Fans, NFL Coaching, NFL Rumors

Last offseason, Falcons owner Arthur Blank stripped Rich McKay of his general manager duties, although he retained the title of team president. Thomas Dimitroff took over as GM, had a lot to do with bringing Matt Ryan to Atlanta, and some eight months later, the Falcons are headed to the postseason. Along with the Dolphins and Lions, it's easily one of the most amazing stories of 2008.

Despite McKay having no say in personnel matters this season, he was Atlanta's general manager from 2003-2007, and earned a Super Bowl ring during his nine-year stint with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in that same role.

And now, the newly GM-less Browns are interested in talking to McKay. According to FOXSports.com's Jay Glazer, however, McKay is quite content with his current set-up.
... [D]espite reports that the Cleveland Browns will interview ... McKay, FOXSports.com has learned that McKay has rebuffed Cleveland's overture. McKay is slated to fly to Phoenix with the Falcons and not New York to meet with Browns owner Randy Lerner.

There were talks between the two sides, but McKay informed them he is happy where he is and did not want to interview for the job or consider it until after the rest of the candidates had run their course in Cleveland.
After surviving (figuratively, not in the dog-fighting sense) the Michael Vick melodrama, I'm guessing McKay wants to enjoy Atlanta's resurgence. Whatever the reason, this is good news for Patriots vice president Scott Pioli.

This morning, the Boston Herald reported that Browns owner Randy Lerner had given Pioli till the end of the day to accept the GM job. Depending on who you believe, that might not be true. Via the Cleveland Plain Dealer's Mary Kay Cabot, Pioli doesn't have a deadline, and that "no timeframe was placed on the decision."

Which means that Pioli, who allegedly made "impossible" demands when meeting with Lerner about the Browns gig, now has even more leverage. Assuming, for the moment, that any of this is true, Lerner has to decide if Pioli is worth it.

The guy has three Super Bowl rings (I know, so does Romeo Crennel, but unlike Crennel, Pioli had a hand in building those championship teams), and if he can do for the Browns what Dimitroff and Mike Smith did for the Falcons, well, I say give him whatever he's asking for. Of course, it's not my money; I suspect Lerner might feel differently.

I think you'll find that was a misquote..

The Browns were scheduled to interview Falcons President Rich McKay on Thursday, but the interview was postponed because McKay wanted to focus on Atlanta's playoff game Saturday in Phoenix against the Cardinals, a source said. Foxsports.com's Jay Glazer also reported Thursday that McKay and the Browns talked but "McKay informed them he is happy where he is and did not want to interview for the job or consider it until after the rest of the candidates had run their course in Cleveland."

See..it's contradictory..if you're not interested then you're not, regardless of who else comes in for a interview.
The writers don't know..

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Don't forget about Parcells.........

I would love to get Parcells in here either as a coach or GM, there is a clause in his contract with Miami that if the team is sold he can get out of his contract, and it looks like Miami will be changing owners...Parcells would be amazing

Thats not the article I read but i'm sure it somehow derived from that statement. Who knows.

I just read that he turned us down and was happy where he is.

On a side note I guess the OBR is reporting that the interview with Spags went extremely well.

Few other coaches who couldn't quite make the jump from college to the NFL and not be successful:

June Jones
Jack Pardee
Mike Nolan
Dennis Erickson
Dan Henning
Pete Carroll

and I am sure others throughout the years.

The way I see it personally and feel is that college coaches struggle with the rich millionaire players whose ego's take over. Most college coaches make good money get to keep building yearly and many gain from this in many ways and they can enjoy coaching where the NFL is a totally different beast since it is a 365 day a year job. Overall your better off with someone who has experiance in the NFL and ex HC who only had one shot are viable options since they do work, a couple off the top of my head that 2nd stint guys worked: Dungy, Gruden, and I am sure others, but no matter the route their is always a gamble, and when I gamble I like to better my odds if possible and I feel the odds are better for someone with NFL head coaching experiance then a guy coming from college and I think the more failures lately are due to them wanting and gettting more then they can handdle in terms of responiblilty and can't control the NFL player's ego unlike he can a college kid, so I would rather go the route of someone who already understand the NFL then a guy that is gonna have a longer learning curve.

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"I may be in the minority here, but really I could care less if a coach or players for that matter have ties to Cleveland. This shouldn't even be a factor. We are a totally different organization then we were when most of these "Cleveland ties" came about."

sorry for laughing I just thought that statement was very funny coming from a guy with a OSU banner and Pimping Wells

A must??? No, but not a bad thing. Look this team needs an Identity...Savage started to hit on it and then maybe got side tracked. But making the Browns into a Cleveland...Ohio football type of Identity is not that bad. Mainly cause so many freakin good football players have come from that hotbed!!!

JJ, Z and even Bentley, also others expressed some desire to come here. In Savage's first two years he spent a lot of extra scouting in the area. That is how we got guys like Cribbs, Sanders, then he sort of went away from it.

I see what you are saying but, I would say Florida is probably the hottest bed for talent. It is nice to have guys that know the tradition and were fans growing up but, when it comes down to it I want the players and coaches that are the best and if that means passing up a "native die-hard" for someone that is better than so be it.

Not taking anything away from the local guys we have because they are good and I like them. Funny you mention my sig because I am a huge OSU fan but I wouldn't want any of the coaches there to come to Cleveland over someone more qualified. (like i think a Shanahan is) I like Wells and would love to have him but I know we have more glaring problems. It was just me playing around with a photo program.

Erickson was on my list, and June Jones and Pete Carrol went to College from the NFL, and were both OCs when they were hired for NFL gigs so I didn't include them. I would disagree about Jack Pardee, because I actually thought he was pretty successfull with the Oilers if you look at his record, but yeah I forgot about him. I also didn't know Nolan or Henning came from the college ranks.

So BigW...what combo do you want?

I'm all for Marty and any GM that will work with him........I also like Mckay / Shanahan.......

McKay/Shazam popped in my mind also..I get a certain feel for those two..

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I get a certain feel for those two

Whoa! Let's keep this PG folks!

AAAAAWWWWW!!!

My bad on missing the guys you mentioned, but that really wasn't my main concern because you can do a list and debate the success/failure, I just really feel that with they way the NFL is right now, teams are better off with someone already affiliated with the league.

The league has and will continue to change, and right now college coaches have seem to struggle more.

j/c

Well, maybe if the Pioli/Mangini/McKay/Whoever thing doesn't work out, we can try this route....

BRONCOS INTERESTED IN PACKAGE DEAL WITH SPAGNUOLO?
Posted by Josh Alper on January 2, 2009, 2:21 p.m. EST

Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo is set to have dinner and an “informal” conversation with the Broncos on Saturday night about their head coaching job. The Broncos also have an opening at general manager and, according to Tom Rock of Newsday, may be interested in discussing the possibility of a package deal involving Spagnuolo and Eagles G.M. Tom Heckert.

The two men worked together before Spagnuolo left to join the Giants, and Heckert has been linked to other G.M. openings over the last couple of seasons. Andy Reid has final say on personnel decisions in Philly, which would turn what’s nominally a lateral move into an upward one for Heckert. The Lions targeted him for a position assisting Martin Mayhew, but Heckert wasn’t interested.

With so many teams interested in Spagnuolo, the chance to work with a trusted friend may be a deciding factor on where he winds up.

link

j/c

Did anyone see if RAC has been asked to interview anywhere?
I haven't even seen a rumor of an interest, but the Jets are looking to interview Mel Tucker, some might say it is a Rooney rule interview, morelikely he is really on the top of the Jets list as a contender, Notice they overlooked RAC altogether...maybe RAC really is that bad of a HC?

Eotab,the question I have is when the new GM and coach comes in,how are they gonna judge the current Browns 53 man roster?
Are they going to evaluate the Browns on what they strictly did in 2008,or look at 2007 also?
Don't forget this team played uninspired football for the majority of the 2nd half of the season.
When you are winning,everything for the most part is harmonous.
But when you are losing and spiraling down,it truly reveals character.
In the last 6 games of 2008,the Browns were outscored 129-31.
Whats that old saying,"its not how you start,its how you finish sometimes"
Theres no doubt,there is talent on the Browns roster.
IMO though,there are very few untouchables on the roster.
Joe Thomas,Shaun Rogers,Brady Quinn and Eric Steinbach are locks to be on the 2009 roster. The young CB's will be here,but will the new regime draft a Malcom Jenkins?I have seen mock drafts where he's going to the Browns at #5.
Rubin could be a sleeper in 2009.
Whats going to happen to Wimbley..it looks like the experiment at LB as failed.
Braylon Edwards will be here,but does he truly want to be a Brown for the long run?
the right side of the o-line is shakey.
There will be turnover,theres no might about it. 24-38 and no playoff appearance constitutes more than a "tweaking"
Phil Savage didn't do any better than Butch Davis. Butch Davis did
"more" with less.
Davis had a harder uphill climb in rebuilding the Browns. Savage contrary to what he percieved,he talent to work with in 2005.
There are players off that 2004 Browns team,that are still producing in the NFL.
When had the season the Browns had in 2008,the new regime will leave no stone unturned. And the new GM,unlike Phil Savage, will value others input.

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Let's do an experiment Pitt, because I've always had the same belief that you do, but I would like to know if the numbers back up our thoughts. Let's make a list of coaches who have come from college and failed.........

Okay. As long as we look at the circumstances involved in each of these cases.

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1. Petrino
2. Spurrier
3. Botch
4. Erickson
5. Saban (this one is debatable, because he was begining to turn that around before he quit them. However, he did quit because he didn't like the NFL)
6. Lou Holtz

For the sake of this debate and the very point of view from my perspective, I won't object to this list being adequate.

Look at each of the situations these men waled into. Fledgling franchises. Teams on the rocks that needed to be turned around. At least for the most part. One or two at best had good franchises walking in the door. But even at that, their teams were in total disaray.

Failure was pretty much the results in everyone of these cases. And most of these teams were pretty much in the same boat we're in right now.

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I can't think of any more, but feel free to add to the list

No, this will be fine.

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Now let's look at coaches from college who've had success in the NFL.....

And their circumstances that I believe you must consider that simply do not exist here. Firstly, while your list of failed college coaches who you listed goes back over a period of "very recent history", you use examples such as Bill Walsh and Paul Brown. in your list of one's that did.

So while I accept your college coach list as accurate in very recent history, I in NO WAY feel it's inclucive to the overall "big picture". Here's my point...................

Do you have any idea of how many college HC have failed since the days of Paul Brown? How about since Bill Walsh?

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1. Jimmy Johnson

That's a given. There's not doubt he's one of very few you can say that about.

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2. Barry Switzer (and yes Pitt he won a SB that counts no matter who's players they were)

Now, we looked at the formula and circumstances of the college coaches that have failed. If you don't believe that the environment and talent should be considered into the eqqasion, then we're certainly not going to see this the same. And that's okay too......

Switzer was handed over the reigns of a Super Bowl caliber team. All the talent was already there and their W/L record was great when he came through the door. So I give him the fact that he was able to take a great situation and win with it.

But how does that compare with our situation? Our situation is much more the above "failure scenarios" at best. And how long was Switzer able be succeeed? Didn't he regress rather than progress? How much of a long term soltion did he pan out to be for the Cowboys?

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3. Bill Walsh

Once again you are very correct about Walsh. But once again, look at the timeframe. I don't believe your college coaching list does the same. But I just don't like looking up that much history on the subject.

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4. Paul Brown

And once again, how long ago was that? Do you really believe your list includes even close to the college coaches that have failed since the fourties? Come on now........

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5. Tom Coughlin

Firstly, He certainly fits the list of successes. But if you look at the situation, it paints a picture that may not be as pretty on the surface. Yes, he made it. But let's look at that.

Instant hit with an expansion team. Then falls off. So much so he loses his job in Jacksonville. Gets hired in NY. Has measured success and turmoil surrounding him. Then, after a while gets it going has final success. But yes, great success.

But look at the tmeframe it took to accomplish it and the fact it was his second job where he reached that success at the NFL coaching level?

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6. John Robinson

And I'll agree with you there as well.

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7.Dick Vermeil

I'll agree with you there as well.

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Again if I left anyone off the list feel free to add to it.

Like I said, I'd bet you a small fortune that a LOT more college coaches have failed since Paul Brown!

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Now let's look over the last 20 years of the NFL and look at the statistics........

And the overall circumstances that were involved.

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Failed......

1.Spurrier
2. Botch
3. Petrino
4. Saban (going by previous conditions)

All entering circumstances very similar to our current situation. Which IMO is key to formula of failure in our situation.

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Success.......

1. Coughlin
2. Jimmy
3. Switzer

Out of these three, only one came into a situation that was in any way near ours and turned a team around and lead that team to a SB. Only one. Jimmy Johnson.

Coghlin didn't succeed his first time around. It was well into his career and with his second team for quite some time. Does that seem like something we're looking for here? I mean does that seem realistic?

And Switzer? Did we just win the SB or something?

He inherrited a great team. And he made that work "once". And how did it go after that? Was it a long term solution for Dallas? Do we have that kind of talent assembled to compare to the Switzer inherritance for a college coach to walk into?

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From these numbers, and again there might be some left off of either side, it seems that the success rate is about 50 percent regardless if we look over the past 50 or the past 20.

When you break it down into each situation, you portrayed a picture where you can only point out "one college coach" who actually came into the NFL, and with his first NFL HC position, actually "built a winning SB team" in the past 20 years. Only one.

And you also pointed out very accurately how one of these guys had talent so loaded walking into it, that our situation in no way resembles your example in any way. Purely apples to oranges And Switzer degressed as a HC, not progressed. Is that something you are promoting by your examples?

And the last 50 years? I'd hate to see the list of college coaches that never made it since Paul Brown. But I'm sure most people have forgotten more of them than you have on that list.

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I hate to say it Pitt, but that is probably in line with hiring a coordinator or a retread as far as success percentages go. I think the whole college coaches can't make it in the NFL thing might be a media/fan creation, based on the recent failures we've seen............that seems to be what these numbers tell us.

And I say that numbers can be a part of any equasion, but do not in and of themselves show any degree of accuracy given many variables much as I've described above on many occasions including this one.

We are in a situation the needs developing new talent. A young team that has underperformed. To be able to install a whole new game plan and have the players respect from day 1. We want our next HC to be a long term solution. And you gave a nice list of how that almost NEVER happens!

So when looking at these situations as a whole, I think your lists were just fine. With the acception of the fact that if you feel you acurately depicted college coaches who have failed in the last 50 years in this eqausion? We strongly disagree and those numbers wouldn't even be in the same ball park.

JMHO

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McKay/Shazam popped in my mind also..I get a certain feel for those two..

Sounds nice except that by all accounts, Shanahan wants total control,, do you think that mckay will go for that?

I want to hire a head of football operations, and then let him pick a guy who he is comfortable working with as a HC. I think this is the best formula for success, and avoids the mistakes that were made last time with the RAC/Opie situation.

As far as who those HOFOs/GMs would be?? I like Pioli, Mckay, and Parcells. I am not high on Reese at all, but he wouldn't be a terrible choice. I can live with any of those 4, and would be fine with any HC that they hired.

I am not picky about the people (within reason, and I would prefer the 1st 3 to Reese), but I am picky about the process, because we've screwed it up every time we've done it.

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June Jones
Jack Pardee
Mike Nolan
Dennis Erickson
Dan Henning
Pete Carroll

Suddenly the list gets longer?

And I think it just goes to help bolster my above post. This is a far too risky proposition to get roped into right now with all of the proven merchandise on the market.

JMHO

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Again if I left anyone off the list feel free to add to it.

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Like I said, I'd bet you a small fortune that a LOT more college coaches have failed since Paul Brown!

I'll bet you that a lot more coordinator hires fail than go on to great success too.

90% of the time, the cards are stacked against any new head coach whether they come from college or from within the pro ranks because most of them are inheriting 2 win, 3 win, 4 win teams with marginal talent at best and a poor attitude... A lot of things have to come together to turn something like that around quickly and the odds are against it.

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And I think it just goes to help bolster my above post. This is a far too risky proposition to get roped into right now with all of the proven merchandise on the market.

There you go,, the right reason is right there. if there were no Mangini, Shanahan, Schottenhiemer, Reeves (yeah, just read that Dan Reeves would like to come back to coaching) then,, perhaps a college coach is a good move.

But even then, before I go the college route, I gotta look at some decent and successful coordinators. Like Spags, McDaniels, Schwartz etc etc..

But that's just the way I'd do it...

I'll go with this most recent post 1st........

Jack Pardee wasn't a failure and made the playoffs numerous times with Oilers........doesn't count.

Pete Carrol, Mike Nolan, June Jones, were all coordinators when they got hired in the NFL...not college coaches. So you want to add Bill Calahan to the list of successes too??...lol. It's kind of apples and oranges.

Erickson was on my list.

The only real name is Henning, and I honestly didn't know about that one.

Ok Daman, let me pose this question and anybody else who wants to answer can chime in....

We all, by now, are pretty familiar with the candidates (coaches and GMs) and their resumes... so you get them into Daman's big office for the interview... What do you ask them? What are you looking for? What is it you want to hear that makes one candidate better than another?

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Look at each of the situations these men waled into. Fledgling franchises. Teams on the rocks that needed to be turned around. At least for the most part. One or two at best had good franchises walking in the door. But even at that, their teams were in total disaray.

You also forgot to mention that these guys (except Petrino) were given full control. So is it a matter of a losing franchise or giving a HC too much control??? Seeing as I think your never usually going to see a new HC hire unless it's a crappy situation I tend to not omit the later as quickly.

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So while I accept your college coach list as accurate in very recent history, I in NO WAY feel it's inclucive to the overall "big picture".

First of all Brown, and Walsh weren't on my list of "recent history", but rather the long term.

But let's look at the list and see what situations they inherited...

1. Johnson.......no need to debate.
2. Switzer........again a good situation no need to debate.
3. Coughlin......Ok bro, so going to the AFC Championship game with a 2nd year team isn't a success??? BS. You know it was a success in Jacksonville, but you don't want to admit it.

Your basic arguments against hiring a college HC if I have read right are........

1.They don't fair well coming into losing situations...lol......well duh who does. However, you totally forgot about Jimmy Johnson and Coughlin.....both inherited a mess and both did it within the past 15 years. Now let me ask you a question.......how many coordinators or retreads have come into a mess and failed over the past 15 years??? Break it down by percentage and see what you come up with........I bet it's pretty simular to the failure rate of college coaches.

2. The recent coaches have failed due to a change in the game. This is a legitimate argument, and you might be right. However, don't forget that alot of these guys were also made head of football ops and given full control of player personnel. So do you think maybe some of these guys might have had success if only made the HC only?? I mean I always thought Botch the GM killed Botch the coach.......how about you??

I am not endorsing signing a college coach, but what I am totally against is telling a GM who he has to hire for his HC, or giving a HC full control. Imo those have been tried here and have both failed miserably. Lerner needs to decide who he wants to be GM and then let him pick his guy, and stay the hell out of the way.

Mangini with full control scares me alot worse than Farentz with a GM.

I'll play...

First, it obviously depends on who you are interviewing. The GM will get a different set of questions than the head coach. If it's the GM, I'm asking what role(s) he sees himself playing before I outline my vision for him. Then, I'm asking about the acquisition of talent. Philosophy? How to get it? Where to get it? When to get it? Most importantly, in the case of the Browns, I'm asking about relationships. The GM's relationship with the HC and his staff, with me the owner, and with the fans. What will those be like and how do you foster each successfully?

If I'm interviewing the HC, I'm asking about schemes and personnel. Aligning one to fit in with the other. I'm asking about preparation. I'm asking about management, in-game, pre-game, post-game. I'm asking about leadership. How are you going to get the best from Braylon Edwards or Kellen Winslow? What would you do with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn? Make it as specific to our situation as possible.

And then just pray to god you get it right this time Randy. Because this is the last chance for you to give this town a winning team. No one is going to put up with another losing campaign.

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Ok Daman, let me pose this question and anybody else who wants to answer can chime in....

We all, by now, are pretty familiar with the candidates (coaches and GMs) and their resumes... so you get them into Daman's big office for the interview... What do you ask them? What are you looking for? What is it you want to hear that makes one candidate better than another?

What's your motivation behind wanting to be the HC/GM/Coach/whatever for this storied franchise?

Answer: I want to be the man that leads this team to a Super Bowl..for you, for ALL the fans...the one who are passed, the ones who are in the seats now and the ones yet to come. I want to win for this whole city! I'm the man
that can restore respect and honor to the Cleveland Browns!

I won't go into the questions but here's what I want to hear: I want to hear how they're going to give the Browns an identity. I want to hear how they're going to work with the Head Coach/GM. I want to hear how they are going to instill discipline into the players. I want them to have a plan.

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What's your motivation behind wanting to be the HC/GM/Coach/whatever for this storied franchise?

Answer: I want to be the man that leads this team to a Super Bowl..for you, for ALL the fans...the one who are passed, the ones who are in the seats now and the ones yet to come. I want to win for this whole city! I'm the man
that can restore respect and honor to the Cleveland Browns!

HOW?

Let me just say that I am not a fan of the HC having all the control.

However, if we want to guarantee that the HC is getting the players he wants, wouldn't it make sense if he was the one calling the shots?

Get someone in here to run the business side of things, including salary cap, contract negotiations, etc. But, when it comes to getting the players, let the HC decide who he wants.

The problem I see, though, comes with free agency. Yeah, you build through the draft, but you can get those last few players you need in FA. For example, Rogers. He's a proven commodity and fills a big hole for us. That lets us concentrate on other areas in the draft.

I'm not sure a HC who calls all the shots would pursue guys in FA really hard. I have no proof of that, but it's JMHO. I guess that goes to why having a HC in control of everything doesn't work. He doesn't have the time necessary to concentrate on every aspect.

You don't have a HC who is also both the offensive and defensive coordinator, and only a select few can pull off being HC and one of the coordinators. If you surround yourself with people you can trust and who have the same sets of beliefs as you, that's what leads to success.

JMHO

Technically,Henning was a pro OC before he become HC,so he shouldn't be on your list.I also think he was an NFL HC before he was a college HC.Anyway,he wasn't a good HC anywhere.
Jack Pardee was a HC in the NFL and the USFL long before he was a college coach.I don't think he ever went back to the NFL after college,so he should n't be on any list.

It's a losing proposition hiring a 1st time HC from anywhere.Stay away from the "hot commodities" go with someone who has been sucessful over a period of years and you'll increase your odds of success.
Ferentz fits that profile,and to a lesser degree so does Mancini.

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There are players off that 2004 Browns team,that are still producing in the NFL.

Like who? Ross Verba at Left Tackle? Lee Suggs and William Green at running back? Gerrard Warren?

Over half of the players on the 2004 team are no longer in football anymore anywhere and the 2007 team rewrote much of the historic Browns record book:

4 Phil Dawson, K 5-11 200 1/23/75 6 Texas
5 Jeff Garcia, QB 6-1 200 2/24/70 6 San Jose St.
5 Josh Harris, QB 6-1 238 9/9/82 R Bowling Green
8 Derrick Frost, P 6-4 210 11/25/80 1 Northern Iowa
10 Kelly Holcomb, QB 6-2 212 7/9/73 8 Middle Tenn. St.
12 Luke McCown, QB 6-3 212 7/12/81 R Louisiana Tech
19 Frisman Jackson, WR 6-3 220 6/12/79 3 Western Illinois
20 Earl Little, DB 6-1 205 3/10/73 7 Miami Fla
21 Lewis Sanders, DB 6-1 210 6/22/78 5 Maryland
22 Michael Jameson, DB 5-11 205 7/14/79 4 Texas A&M
23 Adimchinobe Echema, RB 5-10 226 11/21/80 R California
24 Robert Griffith, S 5-11 200 11/30/70 11 San Diego St.
25 Chris Crocker, DB 5-11 194 3/9/80 2 Marshall
28 Leigh Bodden, DB 6-1 200 9/24/81 2 Duquesne
31 William Green, RB 6-0 215 12/17/79 3 Boston College
33 Daylon McCutcheon, CB 5-10 190 12/9/76 6 USC
34 Michael Grant, DB 6-1 205 7/10/80 R Mars Hill
35 Dyshod Carter, CB 5-10 195 6/18/78 2 Kansas St.
37 Anthony Henry, CB 6-1 205 11/3/76 4 South Florida
39 Mike Lehan, CB 6-0 190 11/25/79 2 Minnesota
40 Ben Miller, RB 6-3 265 8/18/79 1 Air Force
42 Terrelle Smith, FB 6-0 255 3/12/78 5 Arizona St
44 Lee Suggs, RB 6-0 210 8/11/80 2 Virginia Tech
48 Sherrod Coates, LB 6-2 242 12/22/78 2 Western Kentucky
49 Keith Heinrich, TE 6-5 260 3/19/79 3 Sam Houston
50 Jeff Faine, C 6-3 303 4/6/81 2 Notre Dame
51 Chaun Thompson, LB 6-2 250 5/22/80 2 West Texas A&M
52 Brant Boyer, LB 6-1 240 6/27/71 11 Arizona
53 Mason Unck, LB 6-3 235 9/7/80 1 Arizona St
54 Andra Davis, LB 6-1 255 12/23/78 3 Florida
55 Barry Gardner, LB 6-1 245 12/13/76 6 Northwestern
56 Eric Westmoreland, LB 6-0 233 3/11/77 4 Tennessee
57 Warrick Holdman, LB 6-1 235 11/22/75 6 Texas A&M
58 Ben Taylor, LB 6-2 245 8/31/78 3 Virginia Tech
59 Kevin Bentley, LB 6-1 240 12/29/79 3 Northwestern
61 Gerard Warren, DT 6-4 325 7/5/78 4 Florida
62 Craig Osika, G 6-3 318 12/4/79 3 Indiana
63 Kelvin Garmon, G 6-2 350 10/26/76 6 Baylor
64 Ryan Pontbriand, C 6-2 255 10/1/79 2 Rice
65 Kirk Chambers, OL 6-7 313 3/19/79 R Stanford
66 Paul Zukauskas, OL 6-5 320 7/12/79 4 Boston College
67 Melvin Fowler, OL 6-3 305 3/31/79 3 Maryland
70 Enoch DeMar, OT 6-4 320 9/7/80 2 Indiana
72 Damion Cook, OT 6-5 335 4/16/79 3 Bethune Cookman
72 Ryan Tucker, OT 6-6 320 6/12/75 8 TCU
73 Joaquin Gonzalez, OL 6-5 315 9/7/79 3 Miami Fla
74 Nick Eason, DT 6-3 301 5/29/80 2 Clemson
75 Javiar Collins, T 6-6 322 4/13/78 4 Northwestern
75 Sterling Harris, OT 6-5 305 8/17/81 SMU
77 Ross Verba, OT 6-4 305 10/31/73 8 Iowa
78 Tyrone Rogers, DE 6-5 280 3/9/74 6 Alabama St.
80 Kellen Winslow, TE 6-4 250 7/21/83 Miami Fla
81 Antonio Bryant, WR 6-1 192 3/9/81 3 Pittsburgh
82 Steve Heiden, TE 6-5 265 9/21/76 6 South Dakota St.
83 Aaron Shea, TE 6-3 255 12/5/76 5 Michigan
84 Andre King, WR 5-11 195 11/26/73 4 Miami Fla
86 Dennis Northcutt, WR 5-11 175 12/22/77 5 Arizona
87 Andre Davis, WR 6-1 195 6/12/79 3 Virginia Tech
88 Chad Mustard, TE 6-6 288 10/8/77 3 North Dakota
89 Richard Alston, WR 5-11 215 11/20/80 1 East Carolina
90 Corey Jackson, DE 6-6 255 11/6/78 1 Nevada
92 Courtney Brown, DE 6-4 290 2/14/78 5 Penn St.
93 Michael Myers, DT 6-2 300 1/20/76 7 Alabama
94 Amon Gordon, DT 6-2 305 10/13/81 R Stanford
96 Kenard Lang, DE 6-3 280 1/31/75 8 Miami Fla
97 Alvin McKinley, DT 6-3 310 6/9/78 5 Mississippi St.
98 Ebenezer Ekuban, DE 6-3 275 5/29/76 6 North Carolina
99 Orpheus Roye, DT 6-4 320 1/21/74 9 Florida St

That list actually made me throw up a little in my mouth.

I want to hire a head of football operations, and then let him pick a guy who he is comfortable working with as a HC. I think this is the best formula for success, and avoids the mistakes that were made last time with the RAC/Opie situation.

Yeah..but I think we all know where this is going..Pioli+Ferentz..I don't think Lerner wants that.
He seems to want the experienced HC..
In some ways I agree..on one hand I want the GM to hire the coach..but the GM better know what that HC is capable of doing..on the other hand we've seen what inexperience can result in.
And let throw this out there...if Pioli were to hire Ferentz and the Browns still flounder because he's inept..what is everyone going to scream?
That Lerner should have never allowed the GM to hire that guy...

I didn't ask him how...that'd come in the interview.

As an owner that's the first thing I'm looking for.

I first want a guy who "gets us" so to speak, knows the pulse of this city, this teams history.

Everone will say "I can do it"...he better show he undrstands the Browns history and how important it was/ is and what was accomplished here, by fans after our team got sold out from under us.

Basically, you're not winning for "you're" glory...you're winning for Clevelands.

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I know silly me...The two most successful dynasties over the last 30 years were put together by coaches who came from College HC jobs.

But we should put all considerations aside in some stereo type of College coaches.

Two out of how many? Buy what you're selling. That's fine with me. But this thread has shown how it's worked over the past twenty years. It's only obvious Bud.

I agree and disagree...lol.

A HC should definitly have input on what type of player he wants to fit his system. If the organization is set up correctly (see Pukesburg) then the HC and GM are on the same page anyway, and the GM already understands what type of player his team wants. What I don't want is a HC who is picking the players without any checks or balances from other people............way too many responsibilities to all of them well.

So if you set up the organization the right way (let a GM bring in his guy) you don't have to worry about conflicts in philosophy OR one guying trying to do too much. This is why I say it's the best way to go............pick a GM and let him pick his HC.

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we all, by now, are pretty familiar with the candidates (coaches and GMs) and their resumes... so you get them into Daman's big office for the interview... What do you ask them? What are you looking for? What is it you want to hear that makes one candidate better than another?

First off, the only ones that make it to my BIG office are the final candidates.. one for GM and one for HC.

I put them in the room,, ask them to talk to each other about their plans. What they would like to see.. how they view building and sustaining a winner.

Then I shut the heck up and listen.

if I come away feeling that these two guys are on the same page, Then I wouldn't let either leave without an offer in thier hands and an acceptance in mine..

You see, as the owner and not a Football guy (as I think it's safe to say, Randy) the only think I can go with is what I see in the interaction between the two principle football guys.

What I think the Defense should be doesn't matter, doesn't matter if I think we should be in the WCO... that's for the FOOTBALL guys to decide.

And if they come to agreement on how the team should be run and if they seem to have a feasible plan to put in place to make it happen, then that's all I need to or should care about.

that and I have to believe them... I have to have a feeling that they can make whatever they, together, think should be done.

So me asking questions,, means nothing..

O.k..lets put this out there..lets say that the sticking point is Pioli/Ferentz..

Is anyone going to pop RL if Ferentz should fail ?

I agree the GM should pick the coach but he shouldn't immediate hire his good buddy..he needs to look at other candidates as well...I would not let Shanahan just walk without talking to him if I were a GM..

Kardiac, I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum.. I wouldn't ask a single specific question like what would you do with DA and Quinn... as the coach in the interview, that would lead me to believe you had a preference and if I picked the wrong one I might not get the job... as the coach I'd answer it this way... "I can't tell you off the top of my head, they both look like talented QBs, I'd have to get into some film and meet with them and go from there." That's all I'd give you and for most of these guys, that would be the truth.

I don't want to hire the coach of the 2009 Cleveland Browns, I want to hire the coach for the next 10 years so I'd keep it very general and my questions for the GM would be very similar... What do you think successful franchises do different than unsuccessful ones? How do you instill a winning attitude in a team that hasn't had much success in recent years? I'd also have my staff do some research so I could ask them specific questions about their own successes and failures and how they did certain things and what they learned from their failures and how they corrected it. I'd ask them about various other people they worked with and how they dealt with it (especially any difficult relationships they had like if they ever had to sit a player for disciplinary reasons). I'd ask them about division of responsibility and who they think should have the final say in drafting/roster/FA acquisition, etc. And then I'd watch all the body language and voice inflexion and everything else. I want a guy that walks like a winner, talks like a winner, sits like a winner, and just oozes that confidence that is unshakable even in the worst of times. I'd ask them about the staff they plan to assemble and that the personnel here is geared toward a 3-4 and stuff like that but I would stay away from specifics... If they are on OC or a DC I'd ask them how involved they plan to be on that side of the ball or if they will delegate full authority to somebody else.

What about Russ Grimm?

Haven't seen him even mentioned? Granted I didn't read the entire thread.

If Pioli indeed comes with the demand Ferentz be hired and we look no further
then he flat out doesn't come here!

That's the thinking that got Savagae fired!

Ferentz may well be worthy of an interview but to be held hostage wouldn't happen to me and I'd bet the farm Lerner either.

Good point. So if Pioli is indeed wanting to just hire SF without going through the process then good for RL for not going that way. That is bad managment to not want to interview all possible candidates. However, if the rift is about RL wanting Mangini, or wanting to pick Pioli's HC then we are in trouble bro, becuase RL still doesn't get it.

I hope you might be on to something, and the rift is about Pioli not wanting to go through the interview process, and just hire Farentz. If that's the case than RL is doing the right thing. If it's the other though we are screwed.

It is why I think the Pioli deal isn't all that near...there are some obstacles in the way that may be hard to remove.

I myself would rather have a good, solid coach first and foremost. and agree it should probably be a veteran guy...Mangini or Shanahan makes sense for us...then find a GM who can work with them..and if you can't find one, don't hire one until somewhere down the road.

I agree, if and I highlight, IF, Pioli is demanding Ferentz without going through the process.. then as Lerner that would sound more like nepitism toward his old buddy than actually finding the right guy.. that would scare me. There are a lot of good football people out there, this isn't "hire your buddy" time.

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Jack Pardee wasn't a failure and made the playoffs numerous times with Oilers........doesn't count.

Just for the heck of it, okay.

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Pete Carrol, Mike Nolan, June Jones, were all coordinators when they got hired in the NFL...not college coaches. So you want to add Bill Calahan to the list of successes too??...lol. It's kind of apples and oranges.

They were ALL "first time NFL HC's". Which is the subject unless I'm mistaken. And they were hired in the capcity of NFL HC based in large part from thier success as HC's in the college ranks.

You wish to sub categorize it after the fact? I don't want ANY rookie NFL HC. OC/DC OR college! So you're talking to the wrong guy there. Too much available talent to experiment, period IMO.

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Your basic arguments against hiring a college HC if I have read right are........

1.They don't fair well coming into losing situations...lol......well duh who does. However, you totally forgot about Jimmy Johnson and Coughlin.....both inherited a mess and both did it within the past 15 years. Now let me ask you a question.......how many coordinators or retreads have come into a mess and failed over the past 15 years??? Break it down by percentage and see what you come up with........I bet it's pretty simular to the failure rate of college coaches.

2. The recent coaches have failed due to a change in the game. This is a legitimate argument, and you might be right. However, don't forget that alot of these guys were also made head of football ops and given full control of player personnel. So do you think maybe some of these guys might have had success if only made the HC only?? I mean I always thought Botch the GM killed Botch the coach.......how about you??

I am not endorsing signing a college coach, but what I am totally against is telling a GM who he has to hire for his HC, or giving a HC full control. Imo those have been tried here and have both failed miserably. Lerner needs to decide who he wants to be GM and then let him pick his guy, and stay the hell out of the way.

Mangini with full control scares me alot worse than Farentz with a GM.

I spent like 5 hours one night researching the best pools of college coaches in terms of success.
Broke them up into, College HC's, coordinators, previous HC in NFL, Previous HC appearing in a superbowl, previous HC's in multiple superbowls.
And the farther i dug into the History of NFL coaches the more i realized I NEVER want to see my team get another college coach, they are by far the biggest crap shoot out of them all, besides couglin, Jimmy Johnson, and Dick vermil, and agruably switzer (who bombed after inhereting a winning team) there is epic falure all around.

Conversly, you can guess which pool of coaches was the best pool to pick . . . Coaches that went to superbowls then on to other teams had generally good success with a few flops, but less failure than previous coaching pools. But, . . . The list of coaches who have been to multiple superbowls is like the who's who of coaching, and throughout NFL history. coaches that have been to more than one superbowl have done no less than brought teams to respectability with thier next franchises. Even J.Johnson took the dolphins into the post season.

since cowher is evidently off the list . . . and if it was because he couldn't have control of personel we should all be pissed.
1. Billick
2.Shanahan

Giving the coach the last say on WHO they get to coach is nessisary and logical. Beacause we had Butch davis? another faild college coach? That is exactly like giving a 16 year old a 500hp supercar and a learners permit and saying, have fun and be careful. A recipe fore disaster. Giving those keys to a Proffesional racecar driver and do you expect the same outcome? No.

It'll come out what the problem is..and I doubt it's anything we haven't thought of ..

What's wrong with college coaches? We know what we're doing. In fact, I have been waiting for Lerner to return my cal to set up an interview. The only problem is Pioli and I aren't as tight as McKay and I are, so it looks like I'l be waiting until the Falcons are eliminated.

For our situation, I'm in favor of Mangini, Shanny, or Holmgren. The problem with Holmgren is that while there was expressed interest from both sides, there is so many reports about Holmgren being steadfast in taking a year off, that it might have cooled Lerner.

I don't think we can point to college coaches as failing so often and include in that list coaches that spent time in the NFL before becoming HCs. The reason is that almost all coaches in the NFL have coached at the college level at some point and were first time HCs in the NFL at some point. It makes for a circular arguement.

I will say that college coaches that are given full control is a recipe for disaster no matter the situation. No matter how well he may be able to coach, you are giving someone used ot having 80 some first round draft picks every year total control of a situation where he isn't going to be able to draw every top player. It's also easier to hide a miss at the colege level with the rosters being bigger than in the NFL, so missing isn't as damaging as it is at the NFL level.

Any more questions will have to be deferred until Mr. Lerner and I conclude our interview.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3806359

Pats' McDaniels is third to interview with Browns

Associated Press

Updated: January 2, 2009, 4:57 PM ET

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CLEVELAND -- New England offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels has interviewed with Browns owner Randy Lerner about Cleveland's coaching vacancy on Friday.

The Ohio born and bred McDaniels just completed his third season overseeing the Patriots' offense and coaching quarterbacks. The 32-year-old former college quarterback was credited with transforming backup Matt Cassel into an effective starter after Tom Brady was lost for the season after injuring his knee in the opener.

McDaniels is the third candidate to meet with Lerner, who spoke with fired Jets coach Eric Mangini on Tuesday and Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo on Thursday.

Lerner is also scheduled to meet on Friday with Browns defensive coordinator Mel Tucker.

I didn't know he was only 32... that concerns me and intrigues me at the same time...

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What's wrong with college coaches?

Not nearly as much in the right situation.

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For our situation, I'm in favor of Mangini, Shanny, or Holmgren.

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I don't think we can point to college coaches as failing so often and include in that list coaches that spent time in the NFL before becoming HCs. The reason is that almost all coaches in the NFL have coached at the college level at some point and were first time HCs in the NFL at some point. It makes for a circular arguement.

Which it is to a degree. It's simply the angle he was approaching it at, so I responded in kind. And as you'll notice, most everything I addressed pertained to "our situation". Which if I had to guess is a contributing factor as to who you feel has the best odds of success here as well. When you've been dysfuntional for a decade, nothing beats experience to right the ship.

The DC's and OC's just have a bit of a head start at the pro level. But to straighten up a mess? I think we both agree that better odds are gained via experience.

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I didn't know he was only 32... that concerns me and intrigues me at the same time...

I know a lot of people were worried about it in November.

It concerns me more than it intrigues me at 32.

JMHO

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I didn't know he was only 32... that concerns me and intrigues me at the same time...

It concerns me as well; I am somewhat less intrigued by it though. We'd have to add another assistant coach to the tree just to wipe behind his ears.

And if the rumors are right about Pioli wanting Ferentz or McDaniels, we may not be the only one's concerned.

Maybe Randy has it right and not Pioli.

Just a thought.......

I was thinking of guys like Jeff Garcia, Chris Crocker, Anthony Henry, Kevin Bentley, Antonio Bryant, Dennis Northcutt,Orephous Roye,Chaun Thompson..there could be more like Micheal Lehan and Melvin Fowler,I'm not sure...
Of course there are guys no longer playing in the NFL on that 2004 team.
Roster addition and subtractions are part of shaping a roster in the NFL.
But the truth is,Phil Savage did a poor job as a GM.
If Savage did such a great job as GM the Browns wouldn't be looking for a new GM as we speak.
Savage was a kind of "live for the moment" GM. He mortaged future draft picks for the present.
He wasn't as bright he thought he was.....Ozzie Newsome duped him good on Draft Day a couple years ago.
The 2009 regime is going to find starters that finish plays and put the team before themselves.

It both concerns and intrigues me as well, but I kind of see it as a positive.

Might be the only one who feels this way, but I want a young coach.

I like what Mcdaniels has been able to do with his qb's and my initial thought is that the guy must be a pretty descent coach.

If we can get a solid GM in here to pick up some talent and get some good coordinators in here I really wouldn't mind giving McDaniels a shot.

I don't know I tend to flip flop everyday. I just wish he would hire some people already, the suspense is killing me. And i'm really tired of watching the same stuff over and over again on ESPN.

Mangini is young. But 32? How young is too young?

Especially having no NFL HC experience to boot?

I agree, it's frustrating. I'm at a point where I really don't care...wake me up just after pick 4 in March and I'd be happy.

You can't help but wonder how someone who's only 32 would be able to handle the team while at recess.

I said it somewhere on here a few days ago, but if i was going to interview college coaches, I would talk to Houston Nutt...that guy is one heck of a coach...wins wherever he goes, and might be as good at in game adjustments as any coach I have ever seen.

His Ole Miss team just pummeled Texas Tech, and that was after going down early. I am sure people were thinking blow out....but not Ole Miss being the one to do it.

Texas Tech got punked.

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Mangini is young. But 32? How young is too young?

Especially having no NFL HC experience to boot?

Give me a fresh excited guy over some of these older guys.

I'd love a young coach to come in here and take this team to a SB and stick around for 15 years!

This kids been around football all his life and must know something to be an OC in his early thirties!

32 is very young. Doesn't mean he can't coach, but I just don't know.

Something bugs me about Mangini. Don't ask because I don't know what it is, the guy just rubs me the wrong way.

I just want a fairly young coach to come in here and be the face of this organization for the next 15 years. That means he's gonna have to win but that's what I hope for.

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I was thinking of guys like Jeff Garcia

You were thinking of average QB's?

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Chris Crocker, Anthony Henry

Two decent secondary players?

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Kevin Bentley

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Antonio Bryant, Dennis Northcutt

A good WR and one that couldn't consistently catch?

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Orephous Roye

Fairly certain he retired.

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Chaun Thompson..there could be more like Micheal Lehan and Melvin Fowler

Lehan? Does he even play anymore? I think Fowler starts for Buffalo, when healthy. Thompson, I believe we miss him major on ST.

You're not alone. I want a young Head Coach, but I am torn between that and experience. As you can tell from my sig, I want McDaniels.

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You're not alone. I want a young Head Coach, but I am torn between that and experience. As you can tell from my sig, I want McDaniels.

If Bill B. sees something in you at 30 to make you his OC I figure you have something going for you!

This is true.

But Billy Boy calls his own plays.

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This is true.

But Billy Boy calls his own plays.

Do we know this for sure?

A while back everyone said it was Bill rather than RAC running the and now
some have posted it was RAC calling the shots.

Heck if it's all Bill and I'm Kraft I'd fire my coordinators and save some money!

Russ Grimm has interviewed for several HC jobs, and he's never been offered a position. He interviewed with the bears, steelers, and I think the vikings. I do believe he also interviewed in Cleveland once. I know he's a good OL coach, but no one has the confidence in him to hire him for HC. I guess he interviews badly.

Bill calls the offensive plays.

As a matter of fact the following season after chubby went to Notre Dame they didn't even have an Offensive coordinator.

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Bill calls the offensive plays.

As a matter of fact the following season after chubby went to Notre Dame they didn't even have an Offensive coordinator.

McDaniels is also the QB coach, and I believe has to get some credit for Matt Cassel.

I mean, Bill Bellyache is a good coach, but we can't give him credit for everything. He isn't God.

I'm not knocking McDaniels cause in his own right he is a good coach and does deserve some credit for developing Cassel.

However if you have ever watched Inside the NFL and they showed Patriots practice Bill has a huge hand in developing the QB's.

I'm not saying he is god but the man knows football. He studies the game like no other coach. Him and his dad studied football forever, the guy has a huge library of books about nothing but football. Watched a special segment one time about the guy, came away pretty impressed.

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I'm not knocking McDaniels cause in his own right he is a good coach and does deserve some credit for developing Cassel.

However if you have ever watched Inside the NFL and they showed Patriots practice Bill has a huge hand in developing the QB's.

I'm not saying he is god but the man knows football. He studies the game like no other coach. Him and his dad studied football forever, the guy has a huge library of books about nothing but football. Watched a special segment one time about the guy, came away pretty impressed.

Bellyache lives in the film room, never said anything other wise.

One of these days, someone is going to succeed away from Bill. Personally, I think Mangini has already succeeded away from him, but I think McDaniels has a very bright future as well.

You certainly cannot compare either Mangini or McDaniels with Weis or Crennel.

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Bill calls the offensive plays.

As a matter of fact the following season after chubby went to Notre Dame they didn't even have an Offensive coordinator.

Heh...chubby...hehe...I instantly thought of Chubby of Little Rascals fame roaming the ND sideline.

Yeah but the first time someone succeeds away from Bill it's going to be because he worked under Bill.

LOL, theres no getting away from it.

But I do think McDaniels should get a shot. But only an I mena only if we get a bonafide general manager in here.

If Pioli comes aboard (I don't think he will) and he brings in McDaniels then i'm on board. But in reality if he's gonna succeed he's gonna need some descent coordinators. You show me one great coach and i'll show you a great coordinator or two. (unless he calls his own plays) hehe

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So you want to add Bill Calahan to the list of successes too??...lol.

get outta here? seriously??? he couldnt even win at nebraska?!

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Russ Grimm has interviewed for several HC jobs, and he's never been offered a position. He interviewed with the bears, steelers, and I think the vikings. I do believe he also interviewed in Cleveland once. I know he's a good OL coach, but no one has the confidence in him to hire him for HC. I guess he interviews badly.

The guy has a long stellar career as an OL coach. I would think a guy with his experience and success would at least get a look, but not recenlty. I would probably be an advocate of hiring him with the right GM.

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Russ Grimm has interviewed for several HC jobs, and he's never been offered a position. He interviewed with the bears, steelers, and I think the vikings. I do believe he also interviewed in Cleveland once. I know he's a good OL coach, but no one has the confidence in him to hire him for HC. I guess he interviews badly.

The guy has a long stellar career as an OL coach. I would think a guy with his experience and success would at least get a look, but not recenlty. I would probably be an advocate of hiring him with the right GM.

This may be because everytime there's an opening everyone screams for the "experienced" coach!

This creates the perpetual retread carousel

Seriously, there must be thousands of excellent HC's who never got their shot through the years!

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Seriously, there must be thousands of excellent HC's who never got their shot through the years!

I seem to recall that being the battle cry for RAC.

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Seriously, there must be thousands of excellent HC's who never got their shot through the years!

I seem to recall that being the battle cry for RAC.

Maybe, but the flip side is the tens of thousands that bite the big one!

j/c
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/

CLEVELAND -- New England offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels and Browns defensive coordinator Mel Tucker interviewed for the Browns' head coach position with owner Randy Lerner on Friday.
Also, Browns director of player personnel T.J. McCreight was formally interviewed for the position of general manager.
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So, we're covered with the Rooney rule now. We can do anything we want.
The question is....what do we want to do?

I think I like the fact that Mr. Lerner isn't rushing into anything.

So what happens if we don't land Pioli or McKay? Is there another choice outside the organization or does Lerner give the job to McCreight? Or does he go ahead and hire a coach to make sure he gets who he wants and then fill the GM job at a later date?

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Yeah but the first time someone succeeds away from Bill it's going to be because he worked under Bill.

LOL, theres no getting away from it.

But I do think McDaniels should get a shot. But only an I mena only if we get a bonafide general manager in here.

If Pioli comes aboard (I don't think he will) and he brings in McDaniels then i'm on board. But in reality if he's gonna succeed he's gonna need some descent coordinators. You show me one great coach and i'll show you a great coordinator or two. (unless he calls his own plays) hehe

Could be the reason RAC is willing to go to DC to be that experienced coordinator under a new coach. RAC may not be cut out for a HC spot, but he's a great DC, IMO.

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So what happens if we don't land Pioli or McKay? Is there another choice outside the organization or does Lerner give the job to McCreight?

I think it's safe to assume that he's at least got a fall back option for GM.

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Bill calls the offensive plays.

As a matter of fact the following season after chubby went to Notre Dame they didn't even have an Offensive coordinator.

Entirely untrue.

I watch football with a Pats fan every week. McDaniels has been calling the offensive side for quite some time...he was even calling plays when his title was just QB coach.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/09/06/patriots_plan_to_adjust/

With his success at such a young age, sometimes it's easy to forget McDaniels is still growing, too. Yes, McDaniels, who officially became the team's offensive coordinator in 2006, has been the primary play-caller since 2005, but he is only a year older than Moss and quarterback Tom Brady.

Still, he is the unquestioned boss of the offense.

"Everybody knows that on our side of the ball he runs the show," said Gaffney. "That's him. He's the man. No questions, no doubts with his age or anything. We know when we come in here and open up our game plan to see what we have going in for that week that he's put in the time to put in the right plays for us whoever we're playing."

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So what happens if we don't land Pioli or McKay? Is there another choice outside the organization or does Lerner give the job to McCreight? Or does he go ahead and hire a coach to make sure he gets who he wants and then fill the GM job at a later date?

I have a creeping feeling we are going to end up with McCreight at GM and have to hire an inexperienced head coach.

The other article that claims the disfunction is why Cowher didn't take the job is looking more and more correct. First Cowher says no, then we haven't signed Pioli yet, McKay reschedules for later. It just seems more and more like we are not the destination of choice for those with other options, whatever the reason may be.

Don't sell Garcia short. The last 3 years his average QB rating is over 90.
His TD to INT ratio has always been what you'd want out of a QB.
Garcia is a better QB than Anderson and Brady Quinn is wait and see.

Anthony Henry has played decent for the Cowboys as he switch from S to CB.
Chris Crocker has been reborn in Cincinnati....he's played a factor in the Bengals defense going from 27th to 13th this year.

Kevin Bentley is a special teams starter for the Texans and backup LB..he's no worse than Andra Davis.

Antonio Bryant was as well as any WR in the 2nd half of the 2008.
Dennis Northcutt became one of David Garrards go to guys this year.

Orephous Roye came off the bench for the Steelers this year.
I thought Lehan was on the Dolphins.

Look theres several of Savages draft picks that are already out football or close to it.

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Don't sell Garcia short. The last 3 years his average QB rating is over 90.
His TD to INT ratio has always been what you'd want out of a QB.
Garcia is a better QB than Anderson and Brady Quinn is wait and see.

Anthony Henry has played decent for the Cowboys as he switch from S to CB.
Chris Crocker has been reborn in Cincinnati....he's played a factor in the Bengals defense going from 27th to 13th this year.

Kevin Bentley is a special teams starter for the Texans and backup LB..he's no worse than Andra Davis.

Antonio Bryant was as well as any WR in the 2nd half of the 2008.
Dennis Northcutt became one of David Garrards go to guys this year.

Orephous Roye came off the bench for the Steelers this year.
I thought Lehan was on the Dolphins.

Look theres several of Savages draft picks that are already out football or close to it.

And how many of those guys have gone to a pro bowl since they have left the Browns?

This team right now would wipe out the 2004 team...if we had a healthy QB.

You know this is the honest truth..I remember on this board,when the majority that post on here,thought going to a Pro Bowl was POPULARITY contest.
All of a sudden,a couple Browns go and the perception has changed.
Shaun Rogers is the only Brown really worthy of a Pro Bowl appearance this year.
Debating if the 2008 could destroy the 2004 is pointless.....
I know this much,despite the adversity the 2004 unit faced with Davis resigning and going thru 3 QB's,it played harder than the 2008 team.
By the ways heres some of Phil Savage's drafts picks that are either out of football or on a non active list.

Travis Wilson
DeMario Minter
David McMillian
Antonio Perkins
Jon Dunn
Andrew Hoffman
Nick Speegle
Charlie Frye
Issac Sowells

I was wrong about Sowells,he's still around with the Browns

Dude who really cares.........Savage and Botch are gone. We identified the problem and moved on......to bad the Bungels can't do the same thing.....oh wait he's the owner.

I would be stunned if Botch's drafts didn't have, at least as many amount of players on that list.

Look, this isn't the 64 Browns vs the 88 Browns. These two teams suck something fierce, but to argue that the 2004 team had more talent is just wrong. The 2004 team did not have anyone near the talent of Rogers on defense, nor did they have a running back even close to Jamal Lewis, not to mention that however bad this year's line was, the 2004 line was had the anchor of Melvin Fowler, an injury prone Faine and Ryan Tucker, who is still on this team.

Please do us a favor Impact,,, don't even thinki of comparing the 2004 team to the team that exists today...You aren't going to get many folks to buy you line on that one. we have WAY better talent now...

just clickin'

The arguments against hiring a coach out of college are without much merit - or at least good supporting evidence. For every Spurrier, I can give you a Bugle. For every Nick Saban, I have a Rod Marinelli. I've got some Rod Rusts, Richie Petitbons, and Richie Kotites to throw at you too. So, let's just agree that there is little evidence to support one side or the other, because until I see some valid statistics to support the argument against college coaches making the jump, I will leave my mind open to any candidate making the jump to NFL HC. If anyone wants to argue against a college coach - or anyone associated with the Patriots for that matter - as a poor candidate, just be clear that there is no basis for that opinion other than your gut feel.

Until Randy makes his decision, all of this is idle speculation. So far, he seems to doing the right thing, which is interviewing as many viable (and interested!) candidates as possible. (I haven't heard that Shanahan is interested in coaching this season, especially after the difficult "break-up" - all I have heard is that he is taking a 2-week vacation. I guess we will learn more over the weekend when he speaks on NFL Network...)

Ummm, Charlie's not out of football. He's with the Seahawks.

So, what's the point? Savaged missed on some? Really? Tell me one GM that hasn't missed on picks in the last 4 years. The problem with Savage was that he didn't draft for the schemes, but rather went for the more "versatile" player.

Aside from Frye and Wilson, most of those guys were picked in the 5-7th round. I'm sure you could find more teams with even more late round busts than the Browns.

I stand corrected.

I've seen Belichick on the sidelines with a headset on and a play sheet in his hands calling in plays. Maybe not this year cause I haven't seen but one or two games they have played but I could swear it has been in the last year or so.

Does Mcdaniels call in the plays to Belicheck and he relays them to the QB and have the power to change them?

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Please do us a favor Impact,,, don't even thinki of comparing the 2004 team to the team that exists today...You aren't going to get many folks to buy you line on that one. we have WAY better talent now...

That's right,the 2008 team won 4 games,while the 2004 team won,aw who really cares,they both sucked.
You,as a Bengal fan,should be readily able to spot a sucky football team.I'm surprised you even started this nonsense.

OOps,sorry Daman.I meant to reply to the Begal fan.I should lay off the booze.

Daman, I know this much about "talent"..a football team cannot ascend on talent alone.
You need 53 guys and a multitude of coaches on the same page with the same agenda
For all the talent on the current Browns roster,how come the Browns have underachieved in 2008?
The Browns have "talented" players..but how many had that desire to the best?
How many guys were just out to collect a paycheck?
The proof is on film.
And in actuality,you can compare both teams..they both finished 4-12 in the last years of their respective regimes.

is that the best reply you can produce? Turn into a response about the Bengals?
I'm aware of the Bengals 2008 shortcomings.And just like the Browns,it can be turned around in 2009.....we aren't the Lions.

What happened to the "interview" thread?

Well coach, for 4 years I have been saying Phil is acquiring talent for the Ravens scheme not Romeo's scheme. Romeo still sucked as a HC but that is for a different argument.

What Randy has to do is learn how to identify leadership. This team needs a leader more than anything else. Maybe thats Piloi, maybe thats McCreight. Pioli has had more responsibility but that doesnt make him a leader.

Just like Josh McDaniels being a good OC doesnt make him the leader this team needs. Spagnuolo has that rep of being a solid leader, so does Rex Ryan but you really dont know until they get to be THEE guy.

I actually like the leadership I have seen in camp from both Chud and Tucker. I think Tucker probably would make a better HC than DC lol. Chud has that natural confidence in his ability. Tucker has that talent for talking confidence into people.

its a big decision, I am glad Lerner is taking his time.

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Daman, I know this much about "talent"..a football team cannot ascend on talent alone.

Honestly impact,, if you were just being obstinent,,, I'd understand... but what really scares me is that I think you actually believe what your saying.....that's really scary

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What happened to the "interview" thread?

Very good question. Let's hope the actual interviews are more focused than the discussion in this thread.