Browns Sign Brian Hoyer - DawgTalkers.net

Wasn't Hoyer slated to start in Arizona before they traded for Palmer? Man, there is some crazy stuff going on in the NFL.

Oliver Luck was a huge Browns fan. I don't remember any such talk about Andrew Luck being a Browns fan.

I feel Hoyer would have been signed here no matter who our Qbs are.
Its funny how 2 different people can see something totally different because I though Lewis looked OK but nothing that would make me think anymore. People become! enamored with the options that open with a qb that can scramble. It has become the rage and IMO won't last long. It always comes back to reading defenses and making tight throws. Lewis hasn't much upside from what I saw.
I'm not saying Hoyer does because I haven't watched him but from what I have read he has all the tools. We will just have to see.

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i remember reading or hearing somewhere that [Lombardi] likes him allot. I think he will beat out Lewis for the number 3 spot

This is true. He was always on the B.S. Report talking him up and his buddies at NFL Network always talked about how much he loved Hoyer. He was signed to be more than a third QB, he will compete with both Weeden and Campbell.

I'm not sure what Lombardi saw in Hoyer that makes him like him so much. From what I have seen, he is exceedingly average, and folded like a cheap folding chair under pressure in college. He was a moderately talented kid, and a hard worked, but the fact is that he's been dumped by 2 organizations in the past year .... one of those teams being desperate for a QB.

Hoyer has always been an awful QB under pressure. Honestly I don't see anything "special" or even "good" about his game. I'm not saying he's awful, but I don't see him as anything but a career backup.

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I know nothing about Hoyer, but I liked what I saw of Lewis in that last game. He looked a heckuva lot better than Weeden.

i couldnt agree more, he looked better than McCoy too-why he is not playing more in practice, or least traded for somebody if they really dont like him, is beyond me. He has talent.

Meh. Hoyer has modest talent, and many flaws. However, he's the new shiny QB ..... so many people will go nuts for him.

J/K

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2012 Cardinals offense. He has also played for the Steelers and Patriots.

Common, lets stop and think about this, Brian's played for 3 other teams, what makes you think he's gonna come in here and WALA....Answer to all our QB problems for the last 10 years, Were gonna crack the nut to let all his talent out and shine in the NFL...Common lets be real, Brian is a back-up QB in the NFL thats what he's brought in for, it's also a nice feel good story to keep the press busy for the next three- four months, and he's another arm for camps....and if he sticks than great if not were not worse off than when we started. ..Lets not go over board with this signing.

I'm not going to disagree, although I'm not sure that Hoyer is any better than Lewis. Just more bodies to compete for the job.

Probably nothing more than to see what Hoyer has by comparison with what the Browns other QBs have.

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Its funny how 2 different people can see something totally different because I though Lewis looked OK but nothing that would make me think anymore. People become! enamored with the options that open with a qb that can scramble. It has become the rage and IMO won't last long. It always comes back to reading defenses and making tight throws. Lewis hasn't much upside from what I saw.

That's funny because I saw a guy who made much quicker decisions than Weeden ever did. He went back, made a read, and threw the ball. Unlike Weeden who held the ball, held it some more, and held it until he was pressured into making a stupid throw.

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Meh. Hoyer has modest talent, and many flaws. However, he's the new shiny QB ..... so many people will go nuts for him.

And many others will knock him w/out seeing him play in this offense because they are more concerned w/supporting Weeden than seeing the best guy play. After all, it would be terrible to be "wrong."

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Browns sign Brian Hoyer

Add another name to the Cleveland Browns’ quarterback depth chart.

Brian Hoyer, who was released by the Cardinals this week, has agreed to a two-year deal with the Browns, according to Adam Caplan of SiriusXM Radio.

Hoyer got the first start of his NFL career in a Week 17 loss to the 49ers last season and played fairly well, at least by the standards of the 2012 Cardinals offense. He has also played for the Steelers and Patriots.

From all indications, Brandon Weeden will be the guy for the Browns this season, and Hoyer will compete with Jason Campbell and Thaddeus Lewis for the No. 2 spot.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/16/browns-sign-brian-hoyer/

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2013/05/a_few_thoughts_on_the_arrival.html

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
Follow on Twitter
on May 16, 2013 at 9:47 PM

Brian Hoyer is an interesting addition, but figures to be nothing more than a backup, says Terry Pluto.AP file

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A few thoughts about St. Ignatius product Brian Hoyer signing a two-year deal with the Browns:

1. He was a backup quarterback in New England for three years (2009-11). He was 27-of-43 passing. Played little.

2. Was with Arizona last season, had a start against San Francisco (27-13 loss). He was 19-of-34 that day, one touchdown, one interception, 73.8 rating. That's his only pro start.

3. Hoyer's pro stats are very limited: 57-of-96 (56 percent), two touchdowns and three interceptions, 72.2 rating.

4. Hoyer is 27; he played at Michigan State. It is a bit of a concern that Arizona (hurting for a quarterback) saw him as little more than a backup. The Cards cut him after trading for Carson Palmer.

5. With the Browns, I see him as an upgrade over third-stringer Thad Lewis, but I doubt he jumps over Jason Campbell to compete with Weeden.

6. In December 2011, Michael Lombardi was working for the NFL network. He said this about Patriots backups Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallett: "I think Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallett are starters. I've said this many times: If I would have taken the GM job of the 49ers, I would have gone after Brian Hoyer, because I think he has all the traits and characteristics. If I were the Cleveland Browns, I'd rather have Brian Hoyer behind center than Colt McCoy. I think he's got all the traits you need, in terms of leadership, toughness, the arm strength, the ability to move the team."

7. That was two years ago, and Lombardi loves Bill Belichick and most of the Patriots. Does he still see Hoyer as a starter? Hard to know. But he still likes Hoyer, or else why would the Browns have signed him? At least the Browns do have three interesting quarterbacks. If injuries hit (as they did in 2010 when Jake Delhomme, Seneca Wallace and McCoy all were hurt), the Browns do have options.

8. My guess is Weeden starts and if anyone takes his job, it will be Campbell.

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I'm not sure what Lombardi saw in Hoyer that makes him like him so much. From what I have seen, he is exceedingly average, and folded like a cheap folding chair under pressure in college. He was a moderately talented kid, and a hard worked, but the fact is that he's been dumped by 2 organizations in the past year .... one of those teams being desperate for a QB.

Hoyer is similar to Matt Barkley coming out of college. Both QB's had strong junior years having good talent around them. They both suffered after talent left.

As for the "dumped by two teams" thing I wouldn't put to much into it. I forgot where I read it, but Hoyer was due a bonus in Arizona, and they tried renegotiating his contract. When Arizona landed Palmer, Hoyer fell out of favor. Arizona's plan is to bring in up and comer QB.

I believe Pittsburgh was playing protect a roster guy and lost Boyer. I don't know how true, but it was rumored Steelers were trying to get Hoyer back.

To me, Lewis is a good QB, but he doesn't fit this offense. Lewis is WCO type. Boyer is a better fit. Let's see whether Lombardi can trade Lewis to the Eagles.

I see Boyer as more the same compared to Weeden and Campbell. It is still Weeden's to loose.

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Of course the media right away saying Weeden now has competition for the #1 QB spot...lol Bozos

Really!!! I have not seen or read this anywhere, where have you... Really!!!

Interesting quote by Lombardi. We're not carrying 4 QB's so it will be interesting to see who they cut.

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Interesting quote by Lombardi. We're not carrying 4 QB's so it will be interesting to see who they cut.

Well, if we went to the trouble to sign Hoyer to a 2-year contract, I'd be surprised if Lewis makes the cut (maybe PS?). I'm thinking it'll be Weeden, Campbell and Hoyer.

First of all, what makes you think I was referring to you? LOL------lighten up. I was yanking your chain because your tone came across as superior.

I never said anything positive about Hoyer. I said I don't know anything about him.

You say we've seen him play. Have we? Or, is "seeing him play" actually just trotting out his preseason stats? I also have never liked the competition argument. If he was playing against "guys who are bagging groceries" than he was also playing with "guys who are bagging groceries." And it is a heckuva lot easier playing defense than offense when the chemistry is not there.

I am not defending Hoyer or proclaiming that he will challenge for the job. I simply didn't like how you belittled posters who are hoping for an improvement at qb. The fact of the matter is that Weeden was terrible last year.

I've mentioned this before, but only one person replied to it: Many people are assuming that the change in offense will work wonders for Weeden. It may help him, but on the other hand, this vertical, attacking offense could lead to a barrage of interceptions.

It's no secret that the Browns had to dummy down the offense last year for Weeden. I hope it doesn't come true, but the guy could be an interception nightmare if he is asked to make more big plays.

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I was yanking your chain because your tone came across as superior.

You would know LOL

Perhaps it's because you quoted me and then responded in a superior, smart Alec, manner.

I am not going to pretend that this former UDFA, who did little in college, and has done almost nothing in the NFL is somehow going to be the answer.

Nice football post, Da Man's hot.

YTown, I was just giving you a taste of your own medicine. Don't be offended, man.

I am curious about what you think about my theory that opening up the offense could lead to a slew of interceptions? Seriously, I like reading your posts. You are an intelligent poster who brings a lot of insight to the board. Talk to me.

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where have you... Really!!!

I don't see why all have a desire to not just disagree or question me but feel a need to insult me with the silly say what crapola

1. I don't make up stuff. It was like One minute after the signing the guy with the Big Ears on NFL Network made that as part of his declaration of us signing Hoyer pretty much right before or after they did a piece on Weeden taking the #1 reps.

But to answer you YES REALLY!!!

Lombardi - quotes from 2 years ago? More his admiring of BB then Hoyer I would think.

Lombardi also admonished the Browns for taking Weeden claiming it was a desperate move - which actually in after thought I agree with that evaluation. It doesn't reflect on his evaluations of Weeden now n in this Offense.

At this moment...Its Hoyer vs Lewis.

As for some possible over evaluations of Lewis on this board. He looked most comfortable in our offense - I agree with that evaluation 100%. But what is being overlooked. Is last season was his 3rd...ALL being under ONE SYSTEM since coming into the NFL as a rookie. ALL in SHURMUR's Offense. Talent vs. comfort in a system compared to a Rookie not a good match for the system n Colt who failed as well. I am actually surprised he hasn't followed Shurmur to Philly???

Chud n Norv are excellent coaches n good evaluators. And yet at this point they have Lewis #3 n now fighting for a roster spot. We still have a lot of evaluating (we = coaches) still to come - stuff we don't see. Heck they breakdown film on practices we get a blurb here n there about a series or so. So all I got to go on is the big guns. So far they got Lewis at #3.

On the Luck thing??? Just what I burnt in my memory from something I read after he was drafted...it left a mark cause I had no prior knowledge of that n was a little disappointed he couldn't end up here. Prior I just knew NO WAY here as in what can you do. Wrong or right...I wrote that as a JOKE you really thought I was hoping for Luck to get released and come here??? Come on dawgs. My point was more on HOYER not LUCK! Correct or not about LUCK...ok I would like to be educated than wrong. Was I correct at least about Hoyer being a fan?

JMHO

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Lombardi - quotes from 2 years ago? More his admiring of BB then Hoyer I would think.

Since they were both mentioned in the same breath, I would think he meant both of them. Not one any more than the other.

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Lombardi also admonished the Browns for taking Weeden claiming it was a desperate move - which actually in after thought I agree with that evaluation. It doesn't reflect on his evaluations of Weeden now n in this Offense.

Really? All I heard him say was it was a desperation move. I didn't hear him specify anything about a scheme. Do you actually believe he's changed his mind about Weeden? I believe his comments were about Weeden the QB.

I simply don't feel he believes Weeden has the goods to be a high caliber NFL starter. So far we haven't been shown that he will be. So why would you think someone that questioned him being drafted as high as he was would suddenly change their minds?

I'm glad Weeden is getting this year because I really didn't#see any other viable option. But I don't believe Lombardi cared for Weeden as an NFL QB then and I haven't seen Weeden do anything that would change his mind to this point.

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Chud n Norv are excellent coaches n good evaluators. And yet at this point they have Lewis #3 n now fighting for a roster spot. We still have a lot of evaluating (we = coaches) still to come - stuff we don't see. Heck they breakdown film on practices we get a blurb here n there about a series or so. So all I got to go on is the big guns. So far they got Lewis at #3.

I keep forgetting how getting Hoyer HAD TO BE a "consensus".

I guess everyone on the coaching staff and the FO must have agreed with what Lombardi had to say about Hoyer or he would never have been signed.

I do think that it's a possibility. No one really knows how Weeden will perform in this offense ... although it does appear to fit his abilities and skills far better than Shurmur's offense did. Will Weeden be able to adapt, grow, and learn beyond the abilities that led the former regime to draft him? That is always the question that must be asked of a 2nd year player.

One thing that encouraged me about last season was the way we drove the field to score. We may not have thrown the ball in, but we used th pass to get down the field. Trent ran in a lot of short opportunities. We improved our scoring tremendously from the year before, and we also improved the number of big plays in the passing game. Many of those were shorter passes that went 20+ yards, but that's what is supposed to happen, and it is something we lacked desperately the year before.

I thought that Weeden showed decent, though spotty pocket awareness. I do think that he got confused as the year progressed and he received more "coaching".

I think that Weeden has work to do. I think that he needs to work on his secondary reads. I think that he needs to work on his footwork. (which supposedly is much improved in this year's camp) His deep ball has been a strength in college, yet it wasn't last year. I do think that working with almost entirely inexperienced receivers worked against him. The WCO requires the QB and WR to be in sync on every play. It was said that Gordon was lazy in many of his routes. I don't know that this is the case, but it is possible that at least part of Weeden's confusion confusion could have been because Gordon wasn't where he was supposed to be. The WCO is a precision offense. Weeden seemed more comfortable early on than later in the year. (outside of the 1st horrible game)

I think that Weeden is a fairly accurate QB, and has a strong arm compared to the NFL average. I think that there are more accurate QBs, but I think that this part of his game is strong enough to be a winning QB.

I think that defenses really started throwing a lot at him trying to confuse him, especially later in the year. I think that he did get confused. I have often talked about the need of a young QB to adjust to the adjustments defenses make to take away his strengths. Weeden has to make this adjustment.

So, in short, this is how I see Weeden:

Arm: Good. I think that he has the arm strength to make any NFL throw.

Accuracy: Decent to good. I think that issues with "arm strength" were due more to inconsistent reading of defenses than insufficient strength.

Ball placement. I think that he was better than the previous QB, but I think that he can improve here.

Completion percentage: I think that he had a solid completion percentage. His 1st game really skewed his stats badly.

Ability to throw in tight windows: I think that he has the ability to complete pases in tight windows.

Footwork: TBD, Inconsistent at best last year

Pocket Awareness: Fair, He can be better here. He was better than the previous year's QB in this regard.

Leadership: Solid. I think that he can lead the team effectively.

Ability to learn: He managed to learn enough of the WCO to start game 1 last year, despite never having played in anything resembling it before. He struggled at times, but I do think that part of his struggles involved having a young and inexperienced team around him. He seems to have caught on to this new offense from what camp reports say. Hopefully he has this ability to learn, because it is vital.He'll have to learn a new offense, so this will be a vital area.

Willingness to improve: He has reportedly been working with Bess on reads, staying after to work independently with him. That shows a willingness to improve.

Work ethic: He seems willing to do the work. He has worked on game tapes at home, and has said that he has given up golf, going out to dinner, and things liek that to work on his craft. That shows a work ethic to me.

Ability to handle pressure: We'll see. He was up and down to some degree in this regard last year. However, he had as bad a debut as any QB in the Eagles game, and he managed to bounce back. That was encouraging.

Size: I think that he has the size to play the position, and that this is a plus.

Decision making: I think that he has room for improvement here. I think that a more familiar offense will help here. The WCO was a very precise offense, and a receiver out of position could screw up the whole play ... especially for a rookie QB. We'll see how he does in this offense, which should have simpler play calls, and simpler reads.

Overall, there are a lot of question marks about Weeden. Are there any problems that cannot be fixed? I don't think so. Will he be able to become proficient in enough areas he struggled in to become an effective starter? I think so. However, he still has to do it on the field.

OK, I went off on a tangent, which I am often wont to do. As far as interceptions ..... it's possible that he could have a lot of them due to the downfield passing game. On the other hand, he could find his comfort zone. We'll have to see.

Of course he will throw more INTs in an Offense like that, but who cares as long as the TDs go up even more....and an INT in this Offense is like a punt if it's caught downfield.

Rivers started 8 years in this Offense and still threw 35 INTs the past 2 seasons, but he also threw 53 TDs

I expect 19-25 TDs and 16-22 INTs and yes, I consider a 22-18 TD-INT season a big improvement

Do you feel that would be enough of an improvement to prevent this FO from going after a franchise QB in next years draft?

I really don't.

Campbell outperforms Weeden in OTA's:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000...-brandon-weeden

It will not matter. And Hoyer will be the third stringer. Lewis will be cut.

Weeden will be the quarterback. Just the fact that they did not draft a QB for the most part gives Weeden the job. All the other talk about Campbell getting a fair shot is just that - talk.

Weeden is a first round pick and they want to find out if he can improve under Chud and Turner( even though he was not drafted by this regime). He will have to totally bomb or get hurt for Campbell or Hoyer to play.

I wouldn't put any extra stock in Hoyer over Lewis folks. His contract doesn't mean anything unless he makes is out of Training Camp to Week 1.

As for Campbell out-performing Weeden.... this early in the game, I'd hope he should. He, by far, has more experience.

None of it matters until the pads go on.

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Weeden is a first round pick

So is Campbell...

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Weeden is a first round pick

So is Campbell...

And they're the same age!

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And they're the same age!

Ouch!

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I know nothing about Hoyer, but I liked what I saw of Lewis in that last game. He looked a heckuva lot better than Weeden.

I agree 100%

Thad makes such quick decisions compared to Weeden or Colt. I really was impressed by him.

That being said he might not have a big enough arm to play in Norv's system which is a shame because I think on the right team he could have been a stud.

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Do you feel that would be enough of an improvement to prevent this FO from going after a franchise QB in next years draft?

I really don't.

Depends, they're only stats....if he throws half his TDs in garbage time, then not. If, like last year, he gets his team inside the 5 often and TRich bangs them in (TRich got a lot of his TDs giftwrapped by the passing game), and he throws desperation INTs when we're 2 scores back? then I could be happy enough with a 21-19 TD/INT.

Folks, Eli Manning had 24/17 and a 76 QBr in his 2nd season...if Weeden gets in that range and we win 7+, then I think he could get a 2nd season in this system, but we're far away from that discussion. Let's see how he starts this season and go from there

The completion % needs to come up (same number of completions for the season, but on fewer attempts would be nice).
The number of TD needs to increase dramatically, and the INT numbers need to come down a bit. I don't think that will be too hard for him, however, because games like that Week 1 debacle just shouldn't happen this year.

If you wanted to sugar coat it a little... the completions # and the total yards numbers were pretty good. It's just the lack of efficiency with which he got to those numbers that is at issue, hehe (please don't take me too serious on that one folks, I know how absurd it is, thanks

).

In any case, it'll be a curious thing to watch.... not a rookie and in a system that is a better fit for his abilities.

Ya know, thinking about this roster and the team in general real quick... I don't think that we've entered a summer with as many question marks on this team since Crennel's first season and our original experiment with the 3-4.

14 Seasons and counting with a QB Deadbate.

Since weeks 2 Weeden had a 14/13 TD/INT, a 6.8ypa and a QBr around 78

As for his TD number, he should have had at least 16 or 17 TDs....remember that game where twice his WR was stopped exactly at the one yd line? That stuff happened a lot to him and from there TRich got most of the TD tries...2 or 3 of TRich's TDs really belong to Weeden as he did nothing to get them...

it's simple math deviation at work here: a 3.5ypc RB with 12 TDs? Sounds like a GL-FB and a 3,300+ yds QB with only 14 TDs? Looks like some bad luck. Sure, Weeden had trouble inside the 5 or 10yd line and that didn't help his stats, but even 16 or 17 TDs is not much for a QB with so many yds....add to that Gordon's drop vs Indy and the stupid Obi-line up penalty on a short TD pass (forgot against who, close game we lost because of it, lol). Also, Shurmur was extremely conservative with Weeden once in the RedZone

Since week one is long gone, those are the stats Weeden will be measured against....can he elevate his yds/PA from 6.8 to 7.2+ and better his TD/INT ratio from a flat 1 to 1.2? We will see

He should have had more TDs, huh? What about picks? He had all kinds of stupid throws that the defenders dropped. Your argument is lame.

Thanks for responding. Excellent post. I don't agree w/everything you said, but you argued w/logic and reason. I like that. It's real football talk. It sucks your post is the very last on the page because some people will miss it. I almost missed it, myself.

Look, I agree w/a lot of what you say. I will skip those items and address the areas where we disagree. I am pointing that out because I don't want to think that I am just categorically disagreeing w/you. And please note that I don't think my word is gospel and I am right and you are wrong. There are a lot of questions to be answered. We can make educated guesses on how he progresses this year, but we really can't say anything for certain at this point.

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Accuracy: Decent to good. I think that issues with "arm strength" were due more to inconsistent reading of defenses than insufficient strength.

I was disappointed in his accuracy. I kind of expected it because almost all Spread QBs put up great completion percentage numbers in college. I will say that he made some very accurate throws. He threw a lot of great crossing routes and slants. He also was accurate on some intermediate out patterns. On the other hand, his deep passes were not nearly as accurate as I thought they would be. He wasn't good on post patterns. He sailed too many throws and threw a bunch in the dirt. I would say he was below average.

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Pocket Awareness: Fair, He can be better here. He was better than the previous year's QB in this regard.

This is the second time you mentioned he was better than the previous qb. So what? Colt is gone and should be a non-issue. It's all about how Weeden played. I think his pocket presence was God-awful. He held the ball forever and then seemed shocked when a rusher came at him. I really didn't see him stepping up in the pocket on a consistent basis, but to be fair, he did do it on occasion. I think he has a long way to go in this category.

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Leadership: Solid. I think that he can lead the team effectively.

Solid? Why? I did not see him as a good leader. Never saw him step up. I understand he was a rookie, but I don't get the solid comment. I think he was lacking in this area, but it is hard to say w/any certainty---either way.

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Ability to learn:
and
Willingness to improve: /quote]
Neither of us know for sure, but comments have come out from several people that make me question his intelligence and work ethic. Hopefully, those comments lit a fire under his butt and he works hard this year.

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Decision making: I think that he has room for improvement here. I think that a more familiar offense will help here. The WCO was a very precise offense, and a receiver out of position could screw up the whole play ... especially for a rookie QB. We'll see how he does in this offense, which should have simpler play calls, and simpler reads.

I know you didn't praise him, but I think his decision making was terrible. I think he couldn't read coverages. He was confused way too often and held the ball, held it some more, and held it even more. Than he would check down when we clearly had open receivers down the field. I haven't seen a qb in Cleveland not see the field as poorly as Weeden did in a long time and that is saying something w/all the bums we have had here since '99. I went to 3 games and it was irritating to see how awful he was. I think this is a weakness of his.

You left out a couple of things that I feel are important:

Anticipation: He showed zero anticipation. Not zero, but hopefully you get the point. He doesn't throw guys open. He doesn't understand when the FS is baiting him. He doesn't get what the coverage LBer might do. It's a HUGE weakness and it is not teachable.

Reading Defenses: This comes pre-snap. I really didn't see him audible. Perhaps he was not allowed to, but right now, that has to be regarded as a weakness. You can get better at this if you do a lot of studying of the opponent's defenses, but it takes a lot of work and you need a football brain.

Reading Coverages: This is post-snap. Most people, including reporters and analysts call this reading defenses, but they are wrong. Weeden was totally inept at reading and understanding coverages last year. It is the primary reason why he held the ball so long. He wasn't sure what the heck he was seeing. You can improve in this area, but it's pretty much an innate gift. Guys like you and I would stand back there and see only a blur. The best QBs somehow see it picture-by-picture. Other guys---like Weeden--struggle because the game moves too fast for them. This weakness is going to be very hard to overcome.

Again, thanks for responding and I really enjoyed reading your post. I agreed w/a lot of it. And I am not saying you are wrong and I am right. I think it's fun and educational to have a debate like this. We can learn and I know there are others [from PM's I get] that enjoy learning too.

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.... it's fun and educational to have a debate like this. We can learn and I know there are others [from PM's I get] that enjoy learning too.

Yes, it is....particularly when done analytically and not emotionally.

You should go and view the argument I am having w/The Almighty Talent Evaluator Helddawg. No emotion there.

That is precisely why I enjoy a good debate w/a guy like YTown. Sound arguments. Not some fabricated BS!

2013 will be about Brandon Weeden at the QB spot. If he is beaten out by Jason Cambell the QB will be our #1 priority next offseason. Jason Cambell is a game manager. Which is exactly what a team needs as a back up QB. Someone that can come in and manage the team until the starter comes back. Win a few games and then take the clip board again. Chud has mentioned the word attack over and over again about both his offense and defense,

With an attacking style offense he needs a strong armed QB that will attack a defense down the field opening running lanes for Trent Richardson. Weeden will throw some picks sure but he will need to be close to 2 to 1 TD's to INT's to be considered successful.

I do not think the new coaching staff and FO will have kid gloves on concerning Weeden. Their expectations for him will be high and their evaluations of him will be to meet those lofty expectations. This staff wants to win and they want Weeden to be a gunslinger. He has the physical tools, he has the offensive weapons, and he has a strong offensive line. Time to take the kid gloves off step up.

Nothing more than a dangerous QB that attacks the whole field will do. I like Weeden but there are no excuses he needs to have a big season plan and simple. His age just does not allow for a long development period. Jason Cambell in my opinoin was not brought in to take the starting QB job but rather as a perfect #2 QB to manage a team. This move to sign Brian Hoyer is to bring in another veteran presence around Weeden to help his mental game.

2013 Brandon Weeden's put up or shut up season.

I don't know how much the QB can audible in Shurmur's offense. McCoy did almost none the year before, and Weeden did almost none last year.

One reason I am willing to cut Weeden a small amount of slack is because there were reports that Benjamin and Gordon both struggled with running their routes properly last year. Whether this is true or not can be debated, but given that Weeden went from some degree of competence of reading the defense earlier on, to struggling mightily later in the year, would lend some credence to the theory. I do not think that Weeden knew the offense well enough to know how to correct every route. He was a rookie. It would also make sense as to why Banner would call out both the QB and the WR in some of his comments.

I did forget about anticipation, and he was quite spotty with regards to anticipation. Sometimes he was decent, and other times he was far less. Once more, in many ways it seemed like he got worse in this regard as the year progressed.

And y'all all come to this conclusion on Lewis by watching him in 1 game???
Let's give a team a game or 2 of film on him and I would be pretty darn sure he would start holding the ball and be indecisive with throws and then his average accuracy would look horrid.
Come on guys....really???? One game and you can come up with that. Funny!!!!

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You should go and view the argument I am having...

Oh, I've been watching. My level of knowledge allows me to spot the difference in footwork between Fred Astaire and the Incredible Hulk, but for finer differences, I readily admit to being technically challenged...

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I don't know how much the QB can audible in Shurmur's offense. McCoy did almost none the year before, and Weeden did almost none last year.

I seem to recall none were allowed. You ran Rat's play no matter what.

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And y'all all come to this conclusion on Lewis by watching him in 1 game???

I probably wasn't very clear.

All I meant to say that Lewis did not hold the ball forever like Weeden did. A lot of people blame all of Weeden's problems on the coaching, but a nobody qb came out and did not hold the ball. He got rid of it ion time.

I can't stress enough how much of a problem holding the ball too long is for your offense.

Hey V
There was a few games that Weeden got rid of the ball on time and looked like he was making progress then he would have several games where he looked lost. Thats all im saying. One game on Lewis is no where near a factor on him being more decisive etc. than Weeden.
Most rooks do what Weeden did there first year. We have just been spoiled in the last few years with some rookies doing things that have in the past been only been seen after playing a few years in the league. Had Weeden had the year he had this year back 5 years ago most on here would be estatic!!!!
Im not sold on Weeden but im smart enough to know you cant judge him in one year and one DEFINATELY cant judge Lewis in 1 game.
On Hoyer...Lindys pimped him pretty good in last years mag. It wasnt only Lombo that liked him.

I always wondered the "flow" or "process" that Brad and the Rat did to get a play-call in. I mean whatever the process was seemed to take quite a bit of time. The Rat would always give the run-around when Grossi use to try to drill him to get that answer.

Thankfully it is now a moot point, and we don't ever have to witness a Cleveland team being operated by Pat and hopefully, noone ever again like Pat.

Lol go figure, Jets "really wanted" Hoyer:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/19/report-jets-were-interested-in-brian-hoyer/

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Nice football post, Da Man's hot.

YTown, I was just giving you a taste of your own medicine. Don't be offended, man.

I am curious about what you think about my theory that opening up the offense could lead to a slew of interceptions? Seriously, I like reading your posts. You are an intelligent poster who brings a lot of insight to the board. Talk to me.

LOL,, Just givin what I get little buddy

In all seriousness, I'm not sure why this signing is significant? I mean other than he's a local product.

Haha well if the Jets wanted him then we must have gotten a STEAL!

While they "really wanted" Hoyer, they also "really want" every QB.

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While they "really wanted" Hoyer, they also "really want" every QB.

We should see if we can trade them Brandon Weeden for their first rounder next year.

Lmfao, I would marry Lombardi if he could pull off that deal hahahaha

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LOL,, Just givin what I get little buddy

I didn't say a word to you. You jumped in and insulted me. I typically don't respond to you unless you ask me one of your jaded questions or insult me.

Btw---I am not all that little and I don't think we are buddies.

Why are you so hostile?

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Why are you so hostile?

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Lmfao, I would marry Lombardi if he could pull off that deal hahahaha

Do you think we could get Pastor to officiate?

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Lmfao, I would marry Lombardi if he could pull off that deal hahahaha

Do you think we could get Pastor to officiate?

I just did a marriage this morning, they were male and female, if thats the case then yes ...

I see this thread going in a very different direction...

j/c

Did the Arizona Cardinals Make the Right Move by Cutting Brian Hoyer?

The Arizona Cardinals cut veteran QB Brian Hoyer on May 13th after deliberating whether he or second-year quarterback Ryan Lindley were the lesser of evils. Apparently the Cardinals brass believes that Lindley has more of an upside going toward the future.

Now, I believe that Hoyer has more talent and smarts than Lindley, but he doesn’t have the size or the arm strength to push the ball down field the way Bruce Arians wants his quarterbacks to.

The smart thing to do for the Cardinals offensive system was to let go of Hoyer and keep the young, strong-armed QB that fits the playbook. Let’s keep in mind though, that they were each set for the third spot on the depth chart, so what does it matter if the guy perfectly fits in the offensive scheme if, barring catastrophic injuries to the other QBs, he’ll never see the field anyway? Either of them would’ve just been destined to hold the clipboard the entire season.

Hoyer is a great game manager and is a perfect option for the third spot on the chart. If somehow the top 2 quarterbacks really did get hurt at the same time, he could come in and do exactly what Kevin Kolb did until he was injured last season, manage the game. He would’ve been the better option for the Cards to keep.

Lindley is good in his own respect, but I don’t think he can manage a situation as well as Hoyer. On top of that, he doesn’t have the experience to handle that sort of thing, and that showed last season when he came into the game to replace John Skelton and could hardly even complete a pass.

Granted, the offensive line was in shambles, but by the time Lindley had taken the reins of the offense, the line was vastly improved from the beginning of the season. Even with the offensive line that was better than what Kolb had to deal with, Lindley went 9/20 for only 64 yards in that game. That’s just a 3.2 yard average. In the words of the great Charles Barkley, that’s just terrible.

Oh, and his passer rating for the year was 46.7, which isn’t too good.

Nobody will tell you that either Lindley or Hoyer are starting-quarterback caliber. However, one is a “serviceable” backup whilst the other is a fully capable backup/game-manager.

Being able to step up in the case of an injury and control the chaos as much as possible is exactly what Hoyer is good at. He can do whatever you ask him to on short notice and has great spacial awareness for somebody who doesn’t warrant the starting grade. With the Browns needing a quarterback, it would be realistic to expect Hoyer to see the field a bit there.

Everything the new regime has done thus far has been great, up until now. Cutting Hoyer and keeping Lindley was a bad move. Let’s just hope it doesn’t come back to haunt the Cards.

http://raisingzona.com/2013/05/24/did-th..._medium=twitter

If cutting a competitor for your 3rd string QB spot "comes back to haunt" a team, then they have far more problems than the QB spot.

Did you say the same thing on the T. Lewis thread?

Checked for myself. Not a peep from you even though guys like mac were ripping our new FO for cutting Lewis and keeping Hoyer.

Interesting, at the very least. My guess is that it is also very revealing.

Vers.....you worry too much about Mac. Even his friends who aren't many, don't align all that close.

Every now and again Mac makes a soild point and when he does I make it a point to agree and comment on it, just so he knows I am not targeting him in some way.

Maybe aging has allowed me to chill a bit over the years.

I still get in to fights, but time has told me to do a better job of picking and choosing.

We go back a long way and for probably 85% of that we have agreed on most topics, but from friend to friend, it doesn't hurt to just let some things bounce off.

Some fights aren't worth fighing. Pick and choose. Then you get a little wiggle room if you stretch the rules a bit. I have skated the edge a few times, but usually after a few prods along the way, so I get a little slack every now and then.

I have also learned I am a WAY better poster at 5:00AM over 7:30PM for reasons I'll hold near....those who know me know it isn't all that close....let's just say I am better off going to bed at 8PM over posting on a message board because somebody is going to post something that is going to tick me off and I am going to be less restrained in telling them what I really think.

....which in the message board world isn't usually smiled upon by the refs, not to mention the other poster.

I sure get a lot of advice on how to post around here.

Don't say this. Don't say that. Chill. Let it go. Ignore that guy. Ignore this guy.

If only I were as smart as all of you....

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I sure get a lot of advice on how to post around here.

Don't say this. Don't say that. Chill. Let it go. Ignore that guy. Ignore this guy.

If only I were as smart as all of you....

Geesh man....sorry I made the comment.

I am not telling you how to post. Sorry you took if for more than it was intended.

Sorry peen. But, you would not believe how many pms I have gotten telling me how to post.

I got guys on here ripping on me and if I say something back..........I get advice on how to post properly.

Please!

I get what you are saying, but do you remember when it was you and I against everyone on the Timid issue? It was brutal. But man, it was worth it because it turned out they were all full of crap! The guy never won another job in the NFL and ended up taking roids. I'll never forget the "Open Apology Letter to Tim Couch" thread. LMAO.

You may have changed, bro.............and I have mellowed some.........but I will still stand up for what I believe in and call out people I think are full of crap. I realize that irritates a lot of people, but I think my track record speaks for itself in regards to right/wrong.

I remember....I was happy when you showed up....same with Collins. Nobody wanted to hear that possibly Collins had a point and maybe Savage wasn't very good.

All's good bro.

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Checked for myself. Not a peep from you even though guys like mac were ripping our new FO for cutting Lewis and keeping Hoyer.

Interesting, at the very least. My guess is that it is also very revealing.

How many times do I even respond to mac at all? I think that I have responded to something he has posted 1 or 2 times in the past month. Frankly, most times I don't even read what he posts, and almost never reply to him. It is a pointless exercise in futility, because he will never admit to ever being wrong. Ever. It gets old. He gets a position in his head, and no matter what evidence if presented to the contrary, he won't even think about changing his position. He's right, the sky is purple with green polka dots, even if it's a lovely shade of blue.

As far as the front office, I have been one of the more vocal proponents of giving the new front office time to see how they actually do before ripping them.

Anything else to complain about? Geesh.

No, that's it for now.

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Maybe aging has allowed me to chill a bit over the years....I still get in to fights, but time has told me to do a better job of picking and choosing.

Well 'peen, I find myself the opposite. With aging ( and soon I will be a great grandfather), I find myself running out odf time, and as such, I really don't give a hoot (with the exception of a select very few posters) what my fellow posters think of me. I try to post quality and inject some humor on occasion, and if I can leave one poster with something to think about, then I have added value to the board.

I don't get into tit-for-tat as I really don't care, but I do try to bring back the whacko posts to Ground Zero if I can. Over the years on the Browns board, I have gotten into some "sessions" with a poster or two (ya, you Vers, my friend), but we have always remained on good terms. Life is too short to cut meaningful ties even though we have never met.

I ask all you guys to do all the

you wish, but stay close as we are all on the boat, just seated in different places. I respect you all whatever your viewpoint, but please keep in mind that that this is OUR team and wish for the same goal. Respectfully submited...

j/c

I just watched Hoyer's interview on the Brown's website. First time hearing the kid speak. I liked what I heard, very softly and honest speaking kid. If anyone hasn't heard it, I would recommend it. Link here:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...1a-8352ffb1ac3b