https://twitter.com/rand_getlin

Not gonna complain about that, now if he can stay on the field for an entire season that would be an added bonus.

daaaaaaaang that's a lot of dough.

Well, glad to have him back.

Shocked he's back, but I like it. It's a short term deal that lets us see if he can maintain his health and stay on the field.

Cameron is a very good receiving threat. He may not be a great blocker, but this team needs weapons, and JC is just that if he can stay healthy.

Seems like he didn't have a market elsewhere ... it's pretty much about what I'd offer him as well

We'll see if he has incentives or if all $15 mill are guaranteed

I'll be surprised if this is true.... definitely going to wait for confirmation before thinking much of anything of it.

"But, but we have to spend $35M this year!!" j/k

Actually, I think it is a bunch of money too. I think the Browns got a little nervous with the allegedly already existing offer sheet from Buffalo and the rumors of the Dolphins trying to sign Clay long-term.....jumped on the sure thing.

Hopefully he can stay healthy and I would not rule out another TE in the draft.

Not trying to be a Negative Nancy, I'm very happy to have him back... but - I hope there are incentives in that contract that would be mindful of his health.

I hope Josh McCown or whoever the Hell we'll have back there is also mindful of his health and don't launch the ball when he's in heavy traffic and open to destructive hits. Hoyer was not.

Oh great, the only players we can sign are ones that always get hurt..

I'm surprised, but happy to see it. Don't think the Browns were going to be able to sign Clay, and not many other TE options out there.

Now if we can sign Cameron Jordan, this will be great. I'm okay with the signing until he misses most of training camp with concussion-like symptoms and the same hold true four weeks into the season. But, one can dream....

That is pretty much in line with the offer the Browns made to Jordan in Jan. It was reported that Jordan turned down the Browns offer of 6-7 mill per yr.

If he can stay healthy, it might be a good move by the Browns.

As many bad moves this FO has made or should I say hasn't made, this is a good move. They have to spend that money somewhere and Cameron can be a stud when healthy. Just a crying same we have absolutely nobody to throw him the rock.

You better go to a different thread and start bashing the FO again..

Get all that positive stink off of ya..

I had more faith in Gordon not getting popped for being stupid this time last year than I do in Cameron staying healthy right now.

Fingers crossed...

I am glad he is back, he is a talent when healthy, I still think we will draft another TE ...

Well, one thing for sure.........the tone of the posters sure has changed since we kept him.

He may have gotten injured while attempting to sign his name on the Miami contract.

that...I think I will stay right here and bug the hell out of you... ...

..I call them as I see them..dont like it, your problem, not mine.

Somebody needs to block for him. Take that a few ways. Welcome back.

This is who I thought we signed when I first read the title.

Oh well, I'll be in the minority on this one. I didn't want him back. I wasn't happy with the amount of time he spent in the trainers room. Here's to hoping that was only a problem in 2014.

I'm just glad you don't call me "osu" anymore.. *shudders*

Now lets get busy and sign some of the positions that will make us stronger: OT DL/DE OLB/ILB CB and S and another WR

He is one more concussion away from being done in the NFL. Hope he can stay healthy

The money isn't ridiculous, maybe Vernon Davis type of money, but the question becomes how many games will he play to earn that money?

That's why I look for us to draft another pass catching TE in rd. 2-3, I would have thought rd. 1 before we re-signed Cameron ...

Way too much for a one dimensional TE, who's had multiple concussions and is coming off a bad season. This was probably a standing offer from the Browns and his agent probably quickly told him that no other team would go over 5mil per.

Cameron now makes 500k less than Jimmy Graham and 1mil less than Gronk. Good for him.

Ouch.

Hmmm...That...That osu...thatosu...I like that...good name for a michigan man...lol..

I hope it has a protection clause in it, like if he misses so many games then the $$$ get bumped down.

Not true according to this:

Link

The worst part about it: what kind of message does this send through the locker room?

Cameron played terribly last season and gets 7.5mil. He always was and is a "low effort" player.
Otoh, guys like Rubin, Skrine and Sheard, while also struggling, at least gave 100% all the time and overall had better seasons. Yet, those guys get shown the door and sign for much less elsewhere. What kind of message is that? Retaining and overpaying the "relaxed" surfer dude over guys who actually "played like a Brown" for their entire rookie contract.

Just further proof that these guys are absolutely clueless. Total disconnect to the locker room. They don't have a plan or it's really a bad one.

I can't even find him on there. Please elaborate.

At least get your numbers right, he's not making anywhere near Gronk or Graham money, more like Davis, Olsen or Whitten.

See above.

Man, I hate agreeing w/you.........LOL

....and, I really do want to give these guys a fair chance, but I am not getting their decisions.

I work all day and come on here really hoping for good news, and then I read these confounding moves.

I'm beginning to think Farmer is an idiot. I am not sure that he is and am willing to change my mind. I just want him to show me something...........anything......that would lead me to believe he has a clue.

And true according to this:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/tight-end/

Could be that the annual AVG is different. Just looked it up. He's even higher up when you list per AVG salary:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/tight-end/

4th highest TE salary tied with Olsen, just 1.5mil less than Gronk, 1.7 less than J.Thomas and 2.5 less than Graham.

Still those other 4 guys have played at the highest level for years. Cameron had one strong season surrounded by a lot of nothing and concussions. He's becoming the Braylon Edwards of TEs and we just paid him like a top 5 player at his position.

Per PFF he rated as the 3rd worst FA TE out of 35 or so. Browns are raiding the PFF scrub FAs, as Hartline and McCown were among the worst at their positions. So sad

So, this is false?



Not being snarky. Just asking. I appreciate the knowledge.

This is funny. Several hours ago people were moaning we didn't do enough to sign our players, now many are complaining we might have paid too much and hope there are incentives.

LOL....had the guy signed elsewhere people would have been bitching how we didn't want to spend money and let a good player walk.




And the beat goes on....and the beat goes on

and on and on and on ...

That's not exactly true, bro. Go back to the Cameron thread and read it. Most people wanted no part of him.

Check it out.

I have to disagree with your assessment that Cameron is a low effort guy. That is simply not true.

Does he have a history of injury yes. But, just look at the play he got hurt last season. He flat laid out for a ball over the middle against the Raiders and got rocked by a safety. Guess what he held on to the ball.

If you want to question signing him for 15 mil because of injury history fine. But he is not a low effort player.

I wanted clay a LOT more ... sigh

I don't think Ballpeen was talking about this thread alone, and I agree with him some people are never happy unless they have something to complain about, over an over and on and on and on ...

I don't need to....or maybe want to. My point isn't so much about Cameron as it is the constant moaners who really have nothing better to do but complain about everything the team does.


I am sick of it.

Your not alone +1

I agree w/that.

There are so many people that complain over and over and over and over about anyone who doesn't say that the Brown's FO is really doing a great job.

They make sarcastic comments in purple, as if people are too stupid to recognize sarcasm. LOL.........if you have to tell people you are being sarcastic, the effect of brilliant sarcasm is actually lost. The beauty of sarcasm is to say it w/a straight face.......or in the case of message boards......do not use purple font.

Back to your point..........someone questions whether or not it is a good move to sign a guy like McCown.......and 20 people COMPLAIN about how someone dare question Farmer. Meanwhile, they are the same guys who had "The Three Stooges" in their sig or referenced that term over and over and over and over and over again just a year ago.

Ironic, isn't it.......Pastor?

Didn't think you were. Depends how you look at it, annual average or 2015 salary, but either way it's not top tier money, average he's 5th, 2015 money he's 8th.

It's not a ridiculous contract. The question still remains, how many games will he play in those two years?

Okay..........thanks again for taking the time to look things up and trying to explain. I appreciate it.

I would've much rather overpaid to retain Sheard and Skrine than Cameron.

I see no other plan on the horizon than to tank this season in the hopes of landing a QB.

I'm not trying to say the sky is falling, nor am I complaining about a lack of signings...this is just par for the course, and it's not the worst idea in the world. I've been through enough rebuilds to become numb to it.

I would've been content with re-signing Skrine and Sheard and maybe bringing in a few role players. That would've at least indicated an attempt to move forward. But don't be fooled - we're planning to lose next year.

Cutting bait on Manziel and looking to the future is our best course of action right now.

Cameron would've been best served to go to a contender.

Non-blocking receiving threat at TE is a luxury for high octane offenses. Square peg, round hole with us.

Wow putting that way it's not too great, but when you are the Browns you will have to pay more bottom line. I just wish we could see what he could do with a real QB, but we'll never find that out.

Why are we signing and resigning bums, yet letting go productive players?

Cameron's one good year involved Gordon getting doubled and tripled covered.

Sorry, but consistently, Cameron has been trash. on top of he can't even stay on the damn field. and he can't block.

Swear to god we keep digressing.

We lost Sheard and Buster, who by the way we should've resign BOTH, because Mingo is trash and Gilbert and Desir showed jack crap.

We signed a #2 WR when we already had plenty of those on the squad already. Great, Hartline has good hands and runs good routes. So does Austin, Hawk, and Gabriel.

I can see and understand building through the draft. But we are CONSTANTLY creating holes to this point: Has anybody else came to realize that we always end up needing the SAME positions every. single. year?

Now, once again, we need another CB.

now, once again, we need another OLB.

now, once again, we need another QB.

And now, once again, we need another TE. We could've went after some good TE's in FA, made that our one big FA signing, and called it a day and went into the draft.

I swear my receding hair line is strictly because of the Browns.

Vers isn't the reason I complain. I agree with him way more then I don't. I am hurt he felt I was directing my comments at him in a straight line way.


I liked Banner. I liked Mangini. When the SHTF between Savage and John Collins, I took up for Collins. He was right.....and the results show that he was right.


Vers....you really think I would be like Mac and simply make some snide remark to you because I disagreed with your opinion?


Please, jump off that horse with me. I think you know me well enough I am not going to take that approach. I like to think I am good enough to express my opinion and take on the issues point by point. Heck, I don't even see where we disagree other than maybe on Manziel and possibly Farmer.

It is.

He's tied for 4th in annual salary with all but 1600yds, 10 TDs through 4 seasons. That's not the kind of track record to warrant such a deal...and that's not even considering his numerous concussions. A player that is one concussion away from his career end, normally has not much leverage in contract talks. And then he's coming of a bad season....he had zero leverage for such a high deal, thus it IS ridiculous

Money aside. The message this sends is simply horrible. That's the bigger issue I have with this re-signing. Cameron didn't improve his blocking and was indeed a low effort guy doing it. He's always been more of a finesse, receiving TE. A good one when everything went right, but still limited due to lack of physicality.

Oh well, hopefully he stays healthy and has a monster season. He gets paid like a top TE, so he better produce much more than last season

Cameron had a decent 6 game span in 2013. since then he's done very little even when healthy.
horrible run blocker who gets stood up and pushed back.
Not a kind of guy thats gonna drag a defender either.
He's one more concussion away from retiring.
The Browns over paid for him.
But I see why he signed.
The Browns are desperate for targets and the demand for Cameron was low.

overpaid?

Nah peen, I don't think that.

We're good. I just want you to remember back to the day that no matter what you said was ridiculed by the masses. It got old, didn't it? I was there w/you.

Look man, I ain't bad-mouthing the moves because I hate the FO. I just am offering my honest opinion and I HATE when people act like I don't have the right to voice it.

Then, I got some so-called holy man saying I am filled w/the devil because I didn't agree w/him.

Agreed

I'm a little bummed we didn't keep Skrine. I'm glad Cameron is back. I'm indifferent about Sheard. I'm glad we don't have to use a top 50 pick on a tight end. We have flexibility to get Malcom Brown at 12 and Xavier Cooper or Carl Davis at 43 and really beef up our line if we want. Opens up the possibilities anyways.

It's not my money, I couldn't care less what they pay him. The Browns have to spend it somehow...

I'd rather have him on the team, who seems to be well liked in the locker room and DOES give effort on his routes/catches (ok, his blocking blows), rather than just about any other available TE on the market.

When healthy, he's a top 5 TE. Why not try to keep him on the team?

He's worth more at that price than Buster "$1 million per pass interference penalty" Skrine.

Now I'm reading he signed with the dolphins

wtf

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 54s54 seconds ago
#Browns never confirmed agreement had been struck with Jordan Cameron and now @CharlesRobinson reports Cameron is signing with #Dolphins.

Unbelievable.

Cameron signed with the Dolphins not browns

Is this Stooges worthy or what?

This Fo is like the pants down joke. I mean really, that's pathetic, sorry. Can the NFL just step in? Please?

On the bright side, the guys that just said this was a good move to keep him----after saying it was a bad move to keep him.........will now say that it was a good move by the Browns to let him walk.

Of course I remember, but I can't say I didn't like it. Not saying I did, simply saying that I really didn't care all that much.


I didn't like having to go back and restate my issues because some Yahoo joined mid conversation and started things from the beginning that Diam and I had going on for hours or days and then had 6 arguments going on at once. That got old, but no, I don't forget. My recall for conversations and positions is still pretty strong.

That's why I said it would take a heck of a lot more than this to chap my ass to the point I didn't consider you a friend.

I have been away for a while. Earlier today I was looking through my account and found 36 pages of private conversations. I guess they pulled up when the site made some changes. So I started deleting them. They went back to 06. Several times I would pull one up and every time could recall almost to the word the reply. Shoot, I had a 4-5 question/reply with Danglet in 06 in one, and it seemed like a converstaion we had 5-6 hours ago.

j/c

Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo
Reports of Jordan Cameron's agreement with the Browns were news to the Browns, who hadn't heard back on their offer.

Link

If he signs with Miami then I doubt they match an offer on Clay

Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot 3m3 minutes ago
In a post that's been up since 6:15, I wrote:"A source told Northeast Ohio Media Group that an agreement hasn't yet been reached'' w/Cameron

Good. Cameron is trash.

Good grief.....these guys are truly a walking joke at this point. They freaking leaked it to their beat writers for goodness sakes. How can you do that unless you KNOW it's a done deal. Would love to know the collective IQ of Haslem, and the FO....betting doesn't break 180 collectively.

Silly season continues.

According to ProFootballTalk, the Dolphins signing Cameron means they'll likely remove the tag from Clay.

LINK

And the Browns will still have to outbid Buffalo for Clay.

Maybe it is an article but from MKC tweets, she never says that. Anyways, if this happens this way, it looks rather embarrassing.

It is good comedy, though.

And it's even more entertaining watching the guys who play Regime Wars flip-flop like a carp out of water.

The tweet said the Browns didn't confirm they signed Jordan. How's that bad on the FO?

You bag on the FO for signing the guy (per a bogus report), and now you're bashing them because they actually didn't sign the guy? Isn't this where someone yells 'AGENDA!"

Vers, this is why people sometimes bash a reporter when stuff comes out about our team. You're taking a lot of heat right now, so I want to be clear I'm talking about one specific thing you tend to say. Some of these reporters are trash, and think that if they put "per a source" anywhere in their article that makes it legitimate reporting. This is why people question the reporters before believing their (usually damming) "report".

Hehe, and say that'S what they said all along. It always works

If true, how would this be an embarrassment for the Browns? They make an offer, someone else reports he's signed it, and then he goes to the Dolphins. Big whoop.

And good, I didn't want him back anyway.

In an attempt to get this back on track, I'm glad Cameron is, apparently, going elsewhere. In a run-heavy system that we're supposedly running, his strengths are minimized, and his weaknesses are greatly magnified. I think our TE will be found early'ish in the draft.

How is Clay's blocking. I was under the impression that he's also less than stellar in that department.

Lol this is so the Browns. ....what's next

Cameron reportedly now to the Dolphins. Heard it on the radio


Yahoo" Sports' Charles Robinson reports free agent Jordan Cameron will actually sign with the Dolphins.
Initial reports had Cameron signing a two-year, $15 million deal to re-up with the Browns. The deal was reportedly done, but the Dolphins jumped back into the mix at the last minute and appear to be stealing Cameron away from Cleveland. It's a sign the Dolphins are prepared to lose transition player Charles Clay.

No, because those are two different situations. I still don't want Cameron, but that implies that for competence's sake I hope neither does our FO. But they obviously DID offer that 2y/15mil deal, so they wanted him and thought they had him and leaked it. That's simply embarrassing and they deserve to get criticized TWICE in ONE non-move, whici is probably a new pants down low, even by Browns standards.

My opinion in this entire sketch hasn't changed. I ciriticzed the FO for wanting to re-sign Cameron, especially over more deserving guys. How can you sell "play like a Brown" and then fire all the soldiers and keep the sunny boy? Shows once again their hypocrisy.

Anyway, our minions thought they had him and prematurely celebrated. Mr Hee Haw Haslam probably was drooling over some much needed PR love getting his way. Amateurs

After many of the comments, people should be relieved after this latest report!

I'm late to the party, but great news.

Better read the whole thread lol

So they came in and stole him from us? Ah well, not really a big deal to me.

Does anyone know if Charles Clay can block?

Which news? That we signed him or we didn't?

I don't care if a TE can block. I want a guy who can catch the ball and stretch a D. If you want blocking, stick a reserve lineman in there and call him eligible.

Here's a string of Tweets about it. Looking like this deal aint done, people.

LINK

PFT

lol, spoke too soon...possibly lose again. Que sera sera. Can't make this stuff up.

We're now Oranger and BROWNER than ever.

What a range of emotions.

I like Cameron and was happy we re-signed him. . . only we didn't actually re-sign him.

I guess it's true, he wanted to be on the West coast. Never mind....


Nathan ZeguraVerified account
@NathanZegura
And there it is RT @CharlesRobinson: NFL source tells Yahoo Sports it's done: Jordan Cameron has signed with the Miami #Dolphins.

Tweet

I will be ROFLMFAO when clay signs with Rex Ryan

LOL HAHAHA

j/c

What is the chance Browns snooker both Cameron and Clay?

Man the Browns need to fire whoever leaked to MKC that this was done when all they had was a verbal agreement....problem is it was probably Jimmay....haha. On a side note, has anyone ever seen this many guys back out of verbal deals (Gore, Cole, Cameron etc.). I understand that nothing is done until it's inked, but you would think agents would shy away from this stuff to avoid future conflict with teams.

Cole didn't back out of anything.

So he took the same deal with Miami as he had in place with Cleveland

Going off a rumor that the Browns felt they had a deal in place when he left for Indy....shouldn't have included him because it's a rumor. My bad on that one.

And for added fun....

LA - theOBR
@LaneAdkins
Cameron agrees to same deal in MIA

Tweet

I'm thinking there was a miscommunication somewhere along the line.

Never mind!

so...

his one color is orange. and the other color... will be

teal or brown?


will Miami steal two players from us?

I doubt the Browns FO leaked anything, when they were asked about it their statement was that was the first they heard of the signing and that they still had an offer out to him. My opinion is Cameron's agent leaked a bogus story the Browns signed him just to get what they wanted from the Dolphins or one of Cameron's reps, etc. Just my .02 though who knows what happened.

With no state income tax in Florida, it's not really the "same deal". But that's a minor point.

I'm actually happy he's going to the Dolphins. I'd rather spend a mid round pick on a TE.

And the plot thickens...again

Why couldn't you have done both? It was only a supposed 2 year deal. I mean, unless we're trying to win the 'most cap space retained' award.

More like, 'The End.'

Exactly

Oh well, there's still hope to sign Clay and then maybe spend a mid rounder on a TE or even Maxx Williams at 19 or if they trade down a bit in the first round and grab him with a later pick.

Prediction:

We aren't signing Charles Clay.

Lol! In all honesty I have the worst vibes from this off season.

Pretty sure that feeling is contagious at this point of the off season.

Josh McCown as our starting QB is all it takes.

My guess about retaining Cameron and drafting another TE is we don't need two "flex" TEs. We have two guys who are blockers first and we had one flex/move guy in Cameron. We only need to retain or replace the one guy with this skill set we are losing.
I understand keeping Gray an Barnidge. They help in the run game. They can give you some offense and they are important on special teams.

j/c

Pfh... Wow.

Link

Haha thanks guys for the peer support I feel better knowing I'm not the only one stressing about things...I have no agenda against the team or ownership, however coming off our 7-9 season (which sadly is like a pinnacle season for us Browns fans) ...I was hoping wed be intent on upgrading our team and adding at least a couple impact players...With the on going saga here, it really looks to be taking its toll that incoming FAs and even our own FAs try avoiding us at all costs...

I used to wonder why SpiritBro felt so much disgust...its March 12th and in all honesty we shouldn't feel this bad about our team until 4pm on opening day hahaha

I'm not upset that we aren't keeping Cameron.

I will say that it appears we look foolish, once again.

I have never seen an off season w/so many negative issues as this one.

I do realize that there were off seasons where the moves were more harshly criticized, but I have never seen an off season w/so many "real" disturbing events as this one.

Just did the same.

I was about to hit submit on a post of jubilation...

Then I realized my dyslexia.

Are you asking why the Browns didn't do both?

1. They tried signing Jordan. They made an offer they felt comfortable with and he chose the higher deal (assuming he's saving ~3% in state income tax).
2. I can't comment on what the Browns will plan to do in the draft.

My comment was letting Jordan walk and draft a TE in the mid rounds (3rd-4th). I like our current TEs but wouldn't mind a more balanced TE to grow.

We made a solid pitch and Cameron took it to the opposite field.



That's baseball.

Why not...Because Carucci says so!!BS

The Browns have WAY more Cap to burn than Buffalo & Miami at this point.

They can easily front load the tender ( say 15 Million )in the first two years, guaranteed, say on a 5 yr. deal & both teams would be very hard pressed to match.

Buff & Miami would put themselves in Cap hell for the rest of season with very little financial room.

What we can do and what we will do are two different things.

Dolphins dont intend to remove Clay's transition tender

Your comment came across as an either or scenarios when you said "I'm actually happy he's going to the Dolphins. I'd rather spend a mid round pick on a TE."

Therefore, I was essentially asking, why could we have not done both. I took your comment as if one precluded the other.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/03/jordan_cameron_miami_dolphins.html#incart_m-rpt-1


EVELAND, Ohio -- Guess who else is taking his talents to South Beach?

In a bizarre twist of events, former Browns Pro Bowl tight end Jordan Cameron signed with the Miami Dolphins instead of returning to the Cleveland Browns.

Despite reports by several national reporters that the Browns had reached an agreement on a two-year deal with the Cameron, the two sides had never actually finalized the agreement, and the Dolphins swooped in.

Within a couple of hours, at about 8:45, he signed with Miami, leaving the Browns short on options for a premier tight end.

When reports first surfaced at about 6 p.m. by Yahoo Sports, NFL Network and ESPN that the Browns had reached agreement on a two-year deal with Cameron worth $15 million, a source told Northeast Ohio Media Group that no deal had been struck at that time.

As the evening wore on, Charles Robinson of Yahoo reported that not only did the Browns not have a deal, but that the Dolphins were close to finalizing a contract with Cameron.

It was a dramatic turn of events after the Browns thought they had reached at least a verbal agreement with their former Pro Bowl tight end.

Well, this is a weird situation.

I'm not that upset about this. I still think that Barnidge and Dray will do fine.

So they're going to tie up almost 15mil in tightends? After the Suh contract? They can't intend to carry both into the season. They want someone to over pay, which might happen. I would rather have Clay than Cameron.

If by fine you mean about par for the Browns which means below average than yea, they'll probably do fine.

Well, they need someone to play after Cameron gets another concussion.

We have to start winning or we are going to continue to lose good players and not get good players. I know Cameron is a risk with his concussion history, but every player in football is an injury risk. It's not hard to understand why guys leave or why they don't want to come to Cleveland. No one wants to play for a loser. The Browns really have their work cut out for themselves.

I think Cameron is soft and I am happy he got 7 mil a year for Miami. We will probably get a 3rd or 4th out of him in next years stacked draft. Yay us. I would not trade dray or Barnidge for him. I think Farmer was dumb to offer 7 mil a year to the guy.

Haha. Or wait, is this a sad commentary?

Well, maybe this is a blessing. Who knows, we could get a diamond in the rough at TE if our luck changes. Sorry, but I'm the eternal optimist. C'mon Browns , make some noise.

Good luck to the Fins.Jordan can't stay healthy.

I'm thinking we should throw an offer sheet to Clay. Something like 5 years 30 mil with 15 guaranteed - 0 signing bonus and 10m fully guaranteed first year salary, 5m roster bonus and 2m salary year 2, 3m salary year 3, 4m salary year 4 and 6m year 5 - assuming we're allowed to do that.

Reasonable for the Browns over the life of the deal, and makes it difficult for Miami to match it because of the cap hit year 1.

Good post club...also do we owe Miami a draft pick if we do indeed sign Clay? I know he was tendered, but unaware at what rate

What a original idea.

I wish I would of thought of that.

transition tag meaning he will get about 7 mil for one year if he signs with them but if he signs somewhere else they have the right to match but they wont get a pick from it.

I just read 18 unbelievable pages.

My conclusion is the Browns owner, the "texting" GM and the team still SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope, he's transition tag, just like Mack was last year. If he signs our offer, Miami has 7 days to match. If they do not, we get him without surrendering any picks. If they do, then they have to agree to the identical terms we offer him.

Didn't read every post.



edit: wow, that was pretty darn close to what you said with just more detail. I'd say great minds think alike, but I'm not often put into that category

We wouldn't match Skrine's offer, but now we are going to break the bank on an above-average tight end? That makes no sense. If we do that, it is a panic move. Stick to the plan (if there is one).

No argument. The only two things that makes me think that we may do something with Clay is that I read (I'll try to find it and post it) that (a) Clay has been one of our main targets and (b) maybe the FO believes we're in better shape with our DBs than with our TEs

edit: heres one:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_...rget-for-browns

"If there is one" being the key point.

If there is a plan, it will be news to me.

Glad I don't believe every little peep that flows across the Twitterverse.

Nothing is ever really done until it has been announced by the team... not some schmoe on the internet.

I never rely on MKC, that's for sure.

We don't know if there is one or not. We definitely shouldn't try and guess what it is after two days.

I understand we are only two days into the new year. I get that it's too early to panic and I'm not panicking; I'm merely stating my doubts that Farmer has a clue as to what he is doing. I hope he proves me wrong. But I'm not signing up for season tickets, I'll say that much.

I'm not signing up for season tickets either.

We lost what? 3 or 4 decent starters from last years team with no one replacing them? All we have to show for it are 2 horrendous free agents and a slot WR. I'd say it is time to panic.

Ideally we have the replacements for Skrine and Sheard in house. Cameron being gone leaves a gaping hole on offense. We have no big time threats at receiver.

I hope the "texting" GM has something cooking. I think he is being schooled. So now, I feel like becoming and Eagles fan.
That wasn't easy to type...

They are looking good and I still think Chip intends on getting Mariotta.

Doesn't look that way, SB:

'Kelly: Mariota trade price too steep'

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/124615...-marcus-mariota

Blurb:

"Let's dispel that right now," Kelly said. "I think that stuff's crazy. You guys have been going with that stuff all along. I think Marcus is the best quarterback in the draft. We will never mortgage our future to go all the way up to get somebody like that, because we have too many other holes we have to take care of.

"We're not mortgaging our future for any particular player. That's just not philosophically what we think is the right thing to do, that you're going to package 20 picks to move up from 20 (in the draft) to some other spot. We have not had any discussions (about such a trade)."


(...end of blurb...)


I guess I missed a lot yesterday afternoon, when I went to bed.... First Cameron resigned with the Browns, then he didn't and signs with the Dolphins!

'Jordan Cameron signs with Miami Dolphins, not Cleveland Browns'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._social_feature

I think he is one concussion away from hanging it up anyhow, so... Honestly? Whatever.

I hope Jordan Cameron gets everything he deserves =)

All of this happened after I went to bed. I saw an article that said he signed with Miami. I opened it up to find the Browns stuff in there... lol

Panic?? About what?? We might not make the playoffs next year?? That's par for the course.

Not a rap on you, dude. I'm just slipping into my usual off-season despair ...

So Cameron gets an offer from us then MKC announces it to the world and within hours the deal falls apart and he signs with Miami for the exact same money? After thinking about that I wonder if his agent and Miami didn't just do that to set the price and make Farmer look bad in the process. If so, it worked! Thanks for your great reporting MKC!

I think Cameron saw his options were closing off and leaked the offer the browns made a few months back to pressure the Dolphins into signing him now instead of later. I am willing to be our NEW offence doesn't pass to the TE very much.

Good, glad he's back. Hopefully he can stay injury free.

I mean in an offense where the primary goal is to run the ball...yes, I'm fine. On the oppisite side of the house, people seem to think that Dray and Barnidge cannot catch and have horrible hands. That is not true. Do I think we will bring in a guy with hands in the draft? Sure, but at this point to cry about losing a guy that could not stay on the field last year is moot.

I was thinking about the 10 year old kid wearing his Browns #84 jersey last night after hearing they had re-signed his hero. Welcome to C-town sports, kid.

Did Cameron pull a "Boozer" on the Browns (makes verbal agreement, then bolts), or did Mary Kay jump the gun? The social media era certainly is a mixed blessing, idnit?

If I were to make a guess, I'd say that Cameron's agent conveniently leaked an agreement with Cleveland (that was probably just an offer) in order to force Miami's hand.

Obviously Cameron wanted very little to do with Cleveland unless he absolutely had to come back ... and we probably offered him out of desperation ... and they used it to their advantage.

Typical.

Tight end Jordan Cameron appeared to be headed back to Cleveland on Thursday afternoon right up until the moment things took a sharp turn in Miami’s direction.

Posted by Josh Alper on March 13, 2015, 7:02 AM EDT

His reported two-year, $15 million deal with the Browns became a two-year, $15 million deal with the Dolphins instead in a change of course that feels like par for the course as the league seems to be specializing in curverballs and changes of heart this offseason. Cameron spoke to his new team’s website after reaching agreement on the deal and said that the presence of quarterback Ryan Tannehill helped sway him.
Jordan Cameron: Playing with Tannehill a “big part” of decision

“He’s young, he’s willing to work and he puts the hours in. They were singing his praises today. It was definitely a big part of my decision,” Cameron said.

There were surely other reasons, the lack of state income tax and a warmer climate come to mind, but the certainty at quarterback in Miami has obvious appeal when compared to both the current Josh McCown/Johnny Manziel situation in Cleveland and the overall lack of direction at the position that Cameron has dealt with during his Browns career.

link

Ouch...this is especially painful because many have questioned the Browns moves at the QB position.

Obviously, the players themselves are questioning the moves Farmer and Haslam have made.

I wonder what the real story behind the story is, concerning the report that the Browns had resigned Cameron only to see Miami sweep in and sign him for real.

Anyone know?

This story was updated a few minutes ago...
link

Jordan Cameron signs with Miami Dolphins, not Cleveland Browns


By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group
Follow on Twitter
on March 12, 2015 at 9:20 PM, updated March 13, 2015 at 7:52 AM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Guess who else is taking his talents to South Beach?

In a bizarre twist of events, former Browns Pro Bowl tight end Jordan Cameron signed with the Miami Dolphins just hours after multiple national reports that he had agreed to terms with the Browns on a two-deal worth $15 million.

Instead, he inked the same deal with the Dolphins, and will now be a deep threat for Ryan Tannehill instead of Josh McCown, Johnny Manziel or whoever else the Browns might start at quarterback over the next two seasons.

"There's a lot of stuff they're doing, state of the art things that not a lot of teams are doing,'' Cameron told the Dolphins website. "They've got a young squad and I'm excited to see where they're going. They got (Ndamukong) Suh obviously yesterday and he's a big deal and Tannehill's making strides. I'm excited to be here and it's going to be a good thing.''

Cameron stressed that Tannehill, the No. 8 overall pick in the 2012 draft whom the Browns also considered that year, was a determining factor. In 2014, Tannehill threw 27 TD passes against only 12 interceptions and earned a 92.8 rating. Meanwhile, Johnny Manziel is still in treatment and the Browns don't know if he'll ever live up to his first-round status.

"(Tannehill) is young and he's willing to work and he puts the hours in and they were singing his praises all day today and it's definitely a big part of my decision,'' said Cameron, a fourth-round pick of the Browns in 2011 out of Southern California.

Things got crazy around 6 p.m. when reports surfaced from Yahoo Sports, NFL Network and ESPN that the Browns had reached agreement on a two-year deal with Cameron worth $15 million. In response, a source told Northeast Ohio Media Group that no deal had been struck at that time. As the evening wore on, Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports reported that not only did the Browns not have a deal, but that the Dolphins were close to finalizing one with Cameron.

The Browns headed into free agency with the idea of letting Cameron test the market and set his price instead of placing the transition tag of $7.017 million or the franchise tag of more than $8 million on him. If he was willing to sign with them at the right price, they were in.

He spent the day in Miami on Thursday, and the two sides apparently discussed numbers. But suddenly, the national sites reported he was heading back to Cleveland for an average of $7.5 million a year -- one that would make him the eighth-highest paid tight end in the business. With the Browns deal not finalized, the Dolphins apparently got back in the game -- or were never really out of it -- and reeled in their newest Dolphin.

Meanwhile, the Browns are left with dwindling options for a premier tight end. According to the Buffalo News, the Browns entered free agency very interested in Dolphins tight end Charles Clay, 25, who received the transition tag from the Dolphins last week, the one-year tender worth $7.017 million. Clay, a converted fullback, caught 58 passes for 605 yards and three touchdown passes last year despite a few nagging injuries.

But the Bills were equally intent on landing Clay, who visited Buffalo this week and even looked for houses there. Clay returned Thursday night to Miami, and the Dolphins had no immediate plans to take the transition tag off of him so he could become an unrestricted free agent.

The News reported that the Bills were still planning to make Clay an offer, one that the Dolphins will have seven days to match. The paper also reported that the Bills do not perceive the Browns as a threat to those plans.

The Browns also expressed interest in tight end Ed Dickson, who re-signed with Carolina, and former Bengals tight end Jermaine Gresham, who visited the Raiders but has no immediate plans to sign there. Gresham was not a top priority for the Browns at the start of free agency, but could be a plan B.

Cameron is the latest Browns' unrestricted free agent to sign elsewhere: Brian Hoyer signed with the Texans, Buster Skrine joined the Jets and Jabaal Sheard signed with the Patriots.

Meanwhile, the Browns have expressed interest in eight-year Chiefs veteran receiver Dwayne Bowe, who was released this week in a salary cap purge. Bowe, who spent six years in Kansas City with Browns general manager Ray Farmer, caught 60 passes for 754 yards and no touchdowns last year.

In addition, free agent cornerback Perrish Cox visited the Browns on Thursday, but is headed for a visit with the Titans on Friday.

Browns Haunted by Their Reputation as Jordan Cameron Spurns Former Team

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/23949...rns-former-team

Still upset this morning that Cameron is gone. Don't know why we didn't at least transition tag him. This non-move was stupid. The contract offered by the Browns was at the same level as the tag.

What's even more upsetting, whether true or not, is the public perception, in all media outlets today. It's the same old stuff. Very depressing.

I agree.

Someone had to notify these news organizations that Cameron was signing with the Browns.

Who was the source for those reports from Yhoo sports, NFL network, and ESPN ?

Rand Getlin of Yahoo and Ian Rapport of NFL network were first to report Cameron had signed w/ the Browns.

Link

milk..the question is, who notified those news agencies that Cameron signed with Cleveland??

Label me the A-hole here, but I think by middle season after Jordan is riding Miami sidelines, we will look back and be thankful this deal never went down.

Not sure why they didn't tag him either Memphis... It doesn't look like we are getting Clay or Gresham either so I'm not sure what their plans are... which isn't any different than yesterday, a week ago, or months ago who knows if they even have a plan.

I wouldn't dream of telling people how to feel, but I personally do not care at all about "public perception" across the country when it comes to the Browns in particular, or Cleveland in general. I think most of the country already thinks we all live next door to an abandoned factory, alongside a river that burns, in some Mad Max post-apocalyptic wasteland. Those of us that live here know about Cleveland's warts, but we also know all the good things it has to offer too. The truth is that people on either coast already think of places like Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, etc as "flyover country", and nothing our sports teams do is going to change that. I used to care about what New York and L.A. and Chicago thought of Cleveland, but now I only care about whether our team kicks their team's ass. I want the Browns to get back to where teams dread coming in here to play our team because, win or lose, they were gonna get bloody. Right now, we get circled as a "W" when we are on someone's schedule, but that is going to change when we get headed in the right direction. They may not like our city, or us, but they are going to respect us. And I'll be damned if I'm going to lose any sleep about whether some sock puppet on Sportscenter says something snarky about my team, or my city.

Try it, its liberating.

/Sermon

We'll likely never know. Possibly his agent in an effort to push Miami into a deal?

My thoughts on Jordan Cameron....

#1- Very talented guy; match up nightmare with good speed and size.
#2- Below average blocker and that's being polite.
#3- Can't beat press coverage of any kind. Disappears in games.
#4- One concussion away from possibly having to retire.
#5- Was here four seasons, stayed healthy only once.
#6- Injury prone, not overly tough.

Add all of this together? You get a replaceable tight end.

With that being said....

Last night stung.

I hated hearing he re-signed (cause I was excited) and then having the rug pulled out from under me.

I sincerely hope we can make an aggressive offer for Charles Clay and Dwayne Bowe (like rumors are saying we could). We're getting desperate for weapons here and I'm not sure we can depend on a handful of rookies to contribute from the word go (as we'd be forced to draft offensive help in the mid-rounds).

Are we really that far off and desperate now? Last season Barnidge and Dray took over for TE and was productive. Jordan was sidelined and even when he was on the field, it was as if he was still sidelined as he wasn't productive at all. Not sure losing him is such a big hit. He had one solid season under a very TE friendly, pass happy scheme.

Same thing with Josh, sidelined majority of the season and again, when on the field was unproductive.

Biggest hit to us was losing Austin, which was replaced by Hartline. I'm not saying we have all the elements, still need a real #1 WR, but just suggesting we aren't as *f'ed* as some may think.

That pretty much sums it up.
He's a phenomenal athlete that is a super tough matchup for most any defense, but he's fragile and can't block and can get taken out of the game by physical defenders all too easily (hence, disappears).

And on the can't block note - I bow to OverToad on this as years ago he stated flat out that Cameron could not block, and I asserted heavily that "could not" was a poor choice of words and it was just something that Cameron needed to work on.... well, I was wrong as Hell. He cannot block.

Very replaceable by anyone that might be less athletic, but can block and doesn't disappear quite so easily - which is why Barnidge & Company showed up so much last season.

Completely fair and I definitely appreciate where you're coming from. I guess I am not there yet. I want people to look at Cleveland, not just it's sports teams, but also the city, in a much better light. It deserves it. The residents deserve it. Whether right or wrong, but sports have now become the largest platform for regional perception. And often times, that trickles into city value or exacerbates long-standing generalizations-- like your aforementioned burning river, rustbelt warehouses, factory of sadness, etc., etc., etc.

That aside though, it's not just NY, LA, CHI media...it's our own writers. And I don't mean Grossi or MKC. There are much better people than that who are continuing to add fuel to the ever blazing fire. I guess that is what is doubly depressing to read...the optimists are even running for the hills.

Frustrating is all.

Not yet, Memphis (although I guess you are meaning the media)...

milk...the same thought crossed my mind.

I am referring to the media. It's when Eotab runs to the hills that we know something is really wrong.

Eotab would NEVER run to the hills, although I guess if things went into the dumpster, he might walk slowly backwards. He is the epitome of a loyal Browns fan...

This is my thought to the "T" with losing Cameron and Gordon for the year. I don't understand this "sky is falling" mentallity when you look at Cameron, he had 1 tremendous year in 2013 and was average at best in the other year's he was a Brown. I apprecieate his athleticism, but I would rather have a traditional TE who can not only catch, but block real well too. I'd take a guy in the mold of Watson over Cameron any day.

Mac,Milkman, My thoughts also,but change possibly to most likely/probably. Never deal with attys verbally only with agreement in writing with their signature attached in ink. And you you have either original or copy in your hand.

I'm not overly sorry to see him go but has there been any information on what actually happened? I read something about Tannehill getting involved.

Hew has it right..... athletically gifted guy but not a complete tight end and not close to an "elite" tight end a la Graham, Davis, Gates, Gonzalez.

Jordan Cameron gets $5 million guaranteed on two-year deal

Tight end Jordan Cameron has had three concussions in his NFL career; before he truly cashes in, he’ll need to prove that those issues are behind him.

His new contract with the Dolphins pays him handsomely to do just that.

Per a source with knowledge of the deal, Cameron will receive $5 million fully guaranteed on his two-year, $15 million contract, with $4 million to sign and a $1 million fully-guaranteed salary in 2015. The rest of his compensation for 2015 is tied to per-game roster bonuses.

It’s a whopping $2.5 million, earned one game played at a time in the amount of $156,250 per game.

So if he’s able to play, he cashes in — and the Dolphins become more likely to keep him around in 2016 at the other $7.5 million he’s due to be paid.

Meanwhile, the Browns apparently are miffed that Cameron didn’t sign a similar (but not identical) offer to stay in Cleveland. But a deal isn’t a deal until it’s a deal (profound, I know), and Cameron is hardly the first player or team to back out of a contract before it was finalized.

Besides, the Browns had plenty of time when they enjoyed exclusive negotiating rights to Cameron. If they wanted to sign him to a new contract, they should have done it then.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-two-year-deal/

Details on Cameron's contract...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-two-year-deal/

Basically the more games he plays the more he makes. This is screwing Miami's cap for next year even more, as the bonuses for each game he plays in that he didn't play in last year is a NLTBE bonus and therefore counts against 2016 cap. What are they doing?

I agree. I feel JC is not a complete TE not to mention he is 1 good hit from being on the DL or worse. I hope this does not happen and I do wish him well.

The only thing I'm not happy about is how this whole thing went down, and I'm not ready to hang that on our FO. I'm sorry, but to say this whole thing is because of a fumbling bumbling FO just doesn't seem to jive with the info out there. If I had to guess, Cameron wanted to bolt for a place with a better QB/offense situation, and so his agent leaked the offer. Maybe I'm biased towards giving our FO the benefit of the doubt all the time, but I just think agent and media shenanigans is the more logical explanation here.

As for not bringing him back, I'm 100% fine with that. In the spectrum of who I'm most bummed about not bringing back, Cameron is all the way on the edge of 'not bummed', with Sheard and Hoyer in the middle and Skrine somewhere on the other side. Assuming the guy is magically 100% healthy and won't ever get another bump on the head, he's not fit for a system that features a strong running game. It's been said 1000 times already, but if Norv Turner were still here running his Air Coryell offense (or the offense was even going to shift more in that direction), vs a run-heavy offense that we will supposedly be going with this season, then I would feel completely different.

He sucks at blocking and we need our TE to run-block. End of story. Have fun in Miami, Jordan.

Anyway ... time to update the title in the thread.

The more I think about this, the more I am torn.

2 years ago, we saw the huge potential that Cameron has. He has rare speed/quicks for the position, and can burn the middle of the defense. He is a big receiver, with soft hands.

That said, he also has inconsistent hands far too often. He is absolutely more receiver than rounded TE. Blocking will never be a strong point for him, but he can learn, as Ozzie did, to kind of get in the way of a defender. He also is hurt a great deal. The 3 concussions are a huge concern.

I am still torn on him leaving. He can be a very useful weapon, and this team needs weapons. However, to be valuable, he has to be on the field.

I do hate the way things like this make the Browns look. Hopefully, though, it conveys a message to Haslam, and shows him that the stupidity has to stop. He has a well respected coach, and that is something to build upon.

I do not want to overstate what these individual players mean though, especially before we see the final product we wind uo with on the field this coming year.

I dunno. I am torn and keep going around on this stuff.

Looks like Cameron wasn't a fan of Johnny, huh?

I wasn't a huge Jordan Cameron fan, but why do I feel like him, Skrine, Hoyer, and Sheard all leaving feels like rats fleeing a sinking ship?

Shots fired!

Just got done reading many posts here. Ewww boy. LOL

I read it that way as well.

Brian Hartline: "What the hell is going on here?"

Several have said it, in addition to me, and I'll continue to beat this drum.

Cameron was/is good in a system like Norv Turner's, which along with throwing the ball a ton, also features a pass-catching TE. It's not a coincidence that Cameron's only good year coincided with Norv's time here.

With us being a run-first team, where a TE is tasked with staying in to block more than running routes, ponying up for a guy like Cameron doesn't make sense.

Draft or sign a guy that can block and will catch passes thrown to him. When I think of my ideal TE, I think of Greg Olsen. He blocks well, and has great hands. He's NOT going to torch linebackers down the field, like Cameron can.

Cameron is great when you're playing the matchup game with him. He outruns any LB and out-muscles any CB. If that's not your gameplan, he loses all of his value.

Considering that most NFL teams carry 3 TEs, I don't know why you can't have both. You are not likely to have 3 who can all catch well and block well. Having one that is WR/TE hybrid, tall in the redzone and can split the seam with good speed is a good thing to have.

I would have preferred that he stay here but truth be told, he's a boom or bust kinda guy. Not because of talent, but because one good hit and he could be done.

He's a guy that should consider retirement for his own good. But I wish him well.

He said a positive thing about his new QB.. what did you expect., That doesn't mean he wasn't a fan of Johnny!

Let's look at each guy that left:

Skrine, wish we could have kept him but he went for $. Can't blame him at all.

Hoyer, I thought he was a better option than McCown but then again, he wasn't the answer anyway.

Sheard, Again, I'd have like to keep him, but it didn't seem as if he was a fit with what we do now. Listen, if you have a chance to join a team like the Pats to play in a system that fits your skills and get a bunch of doe to boot, you gotta do it. Don't blame him.

Cameron, would have preferred him to stay, but again,like I said, he's one good hit away from never playing. By all accounts, he doesn't fit what we do now.

They may be rats, but the ship is still sailing. Look who we let leave: Hoyer wanted to be the starter, I don't think he wanted to battle it out with JM for the spot. And for whatever reason we really did not want him back. Best that we parted ways. Sheard...Looks like he just did not fit our D. Can you blame the FO for not trying to pound square pegs into round holes? If they did keep him how many would be saying exactly that? I thought we were trying for yrs. to quit pounding square pegs into round holes? Now it's a problem?

Skrine was good and then he wasn't. Middle of the road guy. Can be replaced. Not like we lost JT or JH. We are keeping who we think are the best fits. Then we'll add some more in the draft. We just need to weed out the "rats" and keep the ones who want to be here. Nothing wrong with that.

Daman,

I'm not usually one to try to read the media-speak, but that seems like a skillfully placed compliment to Tanny. It meshes too well with those reports on Manziel not taking his job seriously and not putting in the work. The simple reality is that he's a pass-catcher, and their pass-throwing situation is miles better than ours. We can get into the drama all we want, but they have a guy that throws the ball better than we do, period.

Agreed on Sheard. I would have loved to keep him, as he has enough talent. I think him playing within a developed, single system will allow him to really grow into the player that many of us thought he'd be. This one could end up hurting the most after a year or two. As of now, though... he's not the best fit for what we're doing.

Skrine is the one I'm probably the most worried about. A cursory look at his contract numbers have me scratching my head. Other than Gipson, this guy was the most important guy we were to keep. Pettine loves and needs good CBs, and Skrine is young and showed steady improvement throughout his time here. All of the requirements were there to keep the guy, and he goes and signs a very reasonable contract with someone else (and that someone else is also in the middle of a rebuild with just as many question marks throughout their team and org as we do). I've been laughing at the doom-and-gloomers this offseason, but I'm not laughing about Skrine deciding to leave (and that's with an understanding that we have a good shot at landing a FA that would fill this void).

Again, I think it depends on who wants to be here. If for whatever reason, he didn't then onward and upward. Maybe bright lights big city was to much for him.

j/c:



https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer

This had been my hope from the beginning. Not necessarily including Clay but that kind of TE setup.

And to me this is something people are missing. I'm not really too disappointed that Cameron is gone. With the concussion issue, I'm very worried about his durability. When you miss five weeks due to a concussion, that becomes a very real concern.

But the bigger picture is the reality of what this FO thought. No matter what we as fans think, this FO didn't offer him a 15 mil. contract because they didn't want him. They didn't offer him more than both of our other TE's combined make because they felt he didn't fit into their plans.

They offered him that big deal because they do want a TE that is a true threat and obviously felt he was such a TE. Otherwise, you don't offer him that contract to begin with. That's an obvious swing and a miss no matter how people try to spin it.

So you believe that this FO offered Cameron 15 mil. because he didn't fit what they wanted to do? Because he wasn't the kind of TE they wanted here?

When you put it like that. . .

One TE to keep in mind, and is available as an UFA, is Rob Housler of the Cardinals. He is 26, 6'5", and fast for a TE. Similar to Cameron, he is not much of a blocker...

Unlike Cameron, he has never been any good.

It seems like the Cards let him walk as he doesn't fit Arian's scheme. Sounds familiar...

jc...

This front office is not doing Pettine and his coaching staff any favors. Every player the Browns lose, is another player/position that Pettine and his staff must develop,if the Browns are going to be competitive.

The Browns obviously wanted to resign Jordan and the front office blew it.

They blew it in several different ways. First off, he should have had an extension before the season even started. Second, if an extension was not possible they should have transition tagged him. Third, the contract details leaked before he signed and the Dolphins gave him the exact same deal.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying Cameron wasn't a fit? If so why did we try and re-sign him? And if Cameron wasn't a fit, why would we sign Housler (who you say is similar to Cameron)?

I still feel that the Browns will make a play for Clay.


- The Browns are on record to be interested in Clay. He fits the H Back/Tight End/ blocker they want in this offence.
- The transition tag is still active
- Miami has very little cash at this point. It will tough to trade Wallace (9.85 Cap ) & if he's cut, approx. 7 million in dead money.
- Buff. is now very low on cash after signing Harvin. A front loaded tender will put them out of the mix.
- His team went out and paid 15 million for another tight end, I don't think that could sit well with the guy.
- Plus don't you think the Browns would like to stick it to Miami, I sure would!

Sure I would have liked to have Cameron back, but in my opinion he is one good hit to the head from being out of the league for good. If we don't sign Clay, which I don't care either way, we draft Maxx Williams at #19.

If Clay is still unsigned in a week or two, I think we will have a chance of signing him. Right now? No.

I didn't say or mean to imply that Cameron wasn't a good fit here. My intention was to point out that Housler sounds like a similar player to Cameron. Perhaps I expressed my intent poorly...

It amazes me the things Django criticizes this front office for. He would absolutely H-A-T-E being a Seahawks fan.

This IMO simply isn't true. If Pet wanted JC bad enough, then they would have tagged him. Health was the concern here. Like I said before, one good hit to the head, and he's spoon fed. He had a hard time staying on the field anyway, we won't miss him. We have not really lost anybody that can't be replaced with equal value.

You don't offer a two year 15mil. contract to a guy you don't want to keep.

Who says they offered it? It was rumored to be put out there by JC's agent. And even if they did, they could have tagged him and been done with it. No, if they wanted him bad enough they would have done so. Then again like I said, if you don't want to be here, seeya, we'll find someone who does.

I'm not saying they wanted him at all costs. What I'm saying is they did want him and targeted him with a good offer. It's not like they didn't care or didn't try.

A quick recap seems to be this:

We don't know who leaked the stories - we don't know how much truth if any there is to any of the stories.

The posters who have decided that Farmer and the FO and the Browns as an organization stink and are incompetent regardless what they do said it was a terrible signing. Too much money to a TE often injured, with only a small track record of being consistently good, and a concussion or two away from being out of the game.

Same posters who then find out that he didn't sign for the Browns - and who assume therefore that it must be some fault of the Browns - then decry what an absolute failure it is that we didn't sign him.

Again - to repeat the first part of this, no proof anywhere on what happened, what was offered, what the Browns thought they did or did not have in place verbally or otherwise. . . . but somehow these limited "facts" get twisted to stick a knife in the back of the F.O regardless of which event we are talking about (the signing or the non-signing.)

Yeah that says all you need to know about 4-5 posters on this site. And I have no idea why anyone tries to debate them. They talk about sticking to football and then all it comes down to is bashing the regime and team any way they can.

That's about it, in a nutshell.

Who the hell are you to tell Pit to take a walk. He's been around longer than you.

Mind your own freaking business in regards to who is a fan and who isn't.

For my 2 cents - I don't think he was worth the contract as he was too big a risk to stay healthy or perform at his best. . . At his best he would be worth the contract, but there are just too many question marks about the chances of this happening.

Flip has stated somewhere that a pass catching TE is a major feature of the offense he wants to run... I can't site the report where I read this but it's within the last 2-3 weeks. I would love to sign Clay to a deal Miami can't match. He seems to be the last TE that would be in the 'very good' category. But who knows. Dray and Barnidge both stepped up and did great in spells, but I wouldn't feel great about them being 1 and 2 on the roster come opening day.

Geez, jump to conclusions much?

He wasn't telling Pit to leave. He was saying if Cam didn't want to be here, fine - leave.

Come on man - re-read the post you responded to. (in a level headed manner.)

Go away, arch.

Yeah, I was looking for what Vers was responding to and couldn't find it. Figured it was on a previous page.

Why? You got all over bleed over something he never said (in regards to pit). Comprehension. Try it.

Why? Because I think you are the worst sort of poster and I no longer wish to talk w/you.

Go bother someone else to get your fix of superiority. I'm done w/you.

j/c

Dolphins just traded away Wallace.

Opens up $ if they want to sign Clay.

Who was dumb enough to trade for Wallace?

Please don't tell me it was us.

You're in luck. It was your new favorite team.

Who is that? Green Bay? Why would they want Wallace?

Nice. I might join you on that.

I wonder what it would be like to have a decade great QB, then when he leaves, have another decade great QB waiting to take his place.

Rumor is the Rams put in their relocation request today. Why can't the Browns move instead? Then we can all be free to go with the team of our choice.

I like the sound of that.

LOL.............you're really not going to tell me who he went to?

That's cold, Rish.

And btw.........guys like you and I are too loyal/dumb to go root for another team. We'll always be Brown's fans. I just like how GB goes about things. Small market. Tradition. Great qb. History. Rabid fans. Cold weather. Class. They are my second favorite team.

But, I don't get why they would want Wallace?

Vikings.

Nope, it is a curse.

Ahhh............now I get why you said that.

Don't like the Vikings. They have very little talent. They better get some in a hurry or they are going to ruin Bridgewater.

As far as Cameron goes, I didn't care if he stayed or left. He wasn't on the field much last year, and I truly believe he didn't, and hasn't wanted to play here for quite some time.

He was a legit target, and show some good stuff at times. But IMO if a player is just biding their time in a place they don't want to be, I have to question their effort.

I think the guy is a warm weather person, and I don't think it was all about the team.

Anyway, I think he can be replaced. Not that he is not a good player, just that I think one thing spread offenses in college to, is create guys like him. Pass catching big guys, with speed. I never saw him as elite, and believe scheme had something to do with his big season.

You try so hard to look for things that you see things that simply are not there.

You owe bleed an apology. He was talking about a player not wanting to be here. It was as plain as day. Geesh.

Vers: I think you mis-read bleed's post to Pit.

I think his lack of quotation marks may have misled you.

As I interpreted his post, bleeds was speaking from the team's perspective. as in: "If you don't want to be here, we'll sign someone to replace you."

I really don't think he was trying to diss Pit. I think he was writing the way we speak to each other from across the table. Do yourself a favor- go back and re-read bleed's post. When you get to the part you found objectionable think: "Browns address Cameron with this sentiment...."

I could be wrong, but that's how I read his post.

___________________

My own personal writing style here is much more formal than many posters for this very reason... I'd rather use more words up-front, and not be misinterpreted, than have to come back later, and explain what I meant. Written word is a poor substitution for face-to-face conversation, you know?

You can always ask him what he meant, too... just for clarity's sake.

What sums up can leaving is not enough warm beaches hot sand babe's in bikinis and ocean breeze. Surfer boy always hated Cleveland so I don't care if the door hits him in the ass on his way out

That's the way I see it too.

Isn't this exactly why we never allowed twitter as a source before? It is often reported before being confirmed in the rush to be first.

As to perception. I think much of that is created by the media. They have to have something to jump on.


My feeling on Cameron is maybe we really didn't want to bring him back, thus, no tag. Maybe our medical staff has the feeling the guy has some serious problems concussion releted and it would be better for us to wash our hands of that.

That's just me thinking out loud here, but once a player starts dealing with concussion after concussion, that problem doesn't get any better with time.

I hate to be late to my own butt-ripping, but.....

Sorry man, but I did not tell ANYBODY (on here) to take a walk. Arch & YTown are right, I was talking about the player. If JC does not want to be here, (and that's the way it sounds) then don't let the door hit ya. As far as Pit goes I like him, we just don't see eye to eye on somethings, I know he's right more than he's wrong.

I've been around on all these different boards since '01 so I've been around myself. I just stated what I felt about JC that's all. Back to black now.....

Not to mention, as much as i hate to say it or think it, he's a marked man.

What I mean by that is everyone knows his problem, and all it takes is one cheap shot and he's out.

I suppose there could be some element of that, but I don't think it would be that widspread. I at least hope not.

You are right. I was wrong. I apologize. Sincerely.

Yes, that is why I was strongly opposed to Twitter being allowed and am still of that mindset

I like to know stuff fast also, But I'd much rather know the facts fast. Knowing Bull fast is not worth the time. and look at the stir it caused.

Geez- uuusss. Elf! I would hope that that would not be the case. I would hope that all of these guys realize how fragile their careers are at this level and would not stoop to those kinds of tactics to win. As much as you may be right about one hit ending his career, I hope you are wrong about how it might happen.

People realize that stories posted online through credible media sources also get things wrong from time to time, right?

Also, I wasn't the least bit upset about losing Cameron.

1. The injuries worry me

2. We run the ball like crap when he's on the field. Until we have a real QB we are going to be dependent on running the ball to get any sort of QB play.

I was hoping we would draft a TE somewhere anyway.

its ok if you use it in a tread already active. just can not believe anyone would be stupid enough to start a thread with it. its not like it was not talked about for a year how the guy wanted out of here.

Report: Browns offered Jordan Cameron to Seattle for Percy Harvin

Last season, the Seahawks stunned many by dealing wide receiver Percy Harvin to the Jets.

However, it appears the Jets weren’t the only club to make a play for Harvin.

According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Browns tried to acquire Harvin from Seattle in exchange for tight end Jordan Cameron.

Ultimately, Harvin ended up in New York, and Cameron stayed in Cleveland. Since then, Harvin has signed on with the Bills, and Cameron has joined the Dolphins after seemingly being set to re-sign with the Browns.

Nevertheless, a Cameron-Harvin deal is fun to ponder after the fact. Cameron — who later missed five games with a concussion — would have given Seattle a proven pass catching threat at tight end. And a Harvin-Josh Gordon-Andrew Hawkins-Miles Austin receiving corps would have been quite a formidable one for Cleveland for the stretch run.

Alas, it was not to be.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...r-percy-harvin/

no doubt about it. Percy Harvin plays like a brown.

Percy Harvin is a really bad guy.

So, why didn't we sign him when he became available?

I don't believe everything I read.

you mean those 3 days he was on the open market? lmao farmer waited until the last minute to try to sign cameron. think he can move that fast?

How Jordan Cameron signed with the Dolphins instead of the Cleveland Browns

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns thought they had a deal with their Pro Bowl tight end Jordan Cameron Thursday night -- until news was leaked to the national media that they had already re-signed him and the deal blew up, a league source told Northeast Ohio Media Group.

The Dolphins jumped in and matched the Browns' offer, and Cameron signed with Miami instead of Cleveland for essentially the same amount: two years for $15 million, but with a different structure.

Granted, nothing had been finalized with the Browns by Thursday evening, but Cameron's new agents, Tom Condon and R.J. Gonser approved of the terms of the deal and things were headed in the right direction.

If all went as planned, Cameron would agree to terms Thursday night and sign the Browns' deal soon after.

Instead, someone -- presumably in Cameron's camp -- leaked the news shortly before 6 p.m. to three respected members of the national media that Cameron had re-signed with the Browns -- not just agreed to terms. The tweets, by Ian Rapoport of NFL Network, Rand Getlin of Yahoo Sports and Adam Schefter of ESPN, all came within four minutes of each other: at 5:55, 5:56 and 5:59.

" Ian Rapoport ✔ @RapSheet
Follow

Jordan Cameron done w/ Cleveland, 2 yrs $15M, source says #Browns
5:55 PM - 12 Mar 2015"

" Rand Getlin ✔ @Rand_Getlin
Follow

TE Jordan Cameron has signed with the #Browns. It's a two-year, $15M deal, per a source.
5:56 PM - 12 Mar 2015"

A few minutes later, a source told Northeast Ohio Media Group that an agreement had not yet been reached despite the national reports. The feeling was, however, that something could happen soon.

When reports broke that Cameron was back with the Browns, he was actually still sitting inside the Dolphins facility, apparently hoping to sign with Miami. He had spent the entire day there and loved the organization. He was excited about quarterback Ryan Tannehill, the signing of Ndamukong Suh and all the things he heard during his visit.

The Dolphins, who placed the transition tag on their own free agent tight end Charles Clay and planned to sign him to an extension, sprang to action when they saw that Cameron had re-signed with the Browns. They called his agents and discovered that the deal hadn't actually been inked yet -- that there was still time to swoop in and snatch him away from the Browns. They hadn't made an offer to that point -- but quickly improved on the Browns' deal.

The tug-of-war for the Pro Bowler was played out on twitter.

At 7:47 p.m. Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports tweeted that "contrary to reports, tight end Jordan Cameron will be signing with the Dolphins, not the Browns. Contract details are being finalized now.''

" Charles Robinson ✔ @CharlesRobinson
Follow

Contrary to reports, tight end Jordan Cameron will be signing with #Dolphins - not #Browns. Contract details are being finalized right now.
7:47 PM - 12 Mar 2015"

At 8:35 p.m., Jason LaCanfora of CBS Sports tweeted that Cameron had a verbal agreement with the Browns for two years, $15 million.

Twelve minutes later, Robinson tweeted: "...It's done. Jordan Cameron has signed with the Miami Dolphins.''

At 9:16, the Miami Dolphins proclaimed: "We have signed Jordan Cameron!''

" Miami Dolphins ✔ @MiamiDolphins
Follow

Welcome to Miami! We have signed Jordan Cameron! #StrongerTogether
9:16 PM - 12 Mar 2015"

The Dolphins jumped in and matched the Browns' offer, and Cameron signed with Miami instead of Cleveland for essentially the same amount: two years for $15 million, but with a different structure.

Granted, nothing had been finalized with the Browns by Thursday evening, but Cameron's new agents, Tom Condon and R.J. Gonser approved of the terms of the deal and things were headed in the right direction.

If all went as planned, Cameron would agree to terms Thursday night and sign the Browns' deal soon after.

Instead, someone -- presumably in Cameron's camp -- leaked the news shortly before 6 p.m. to three respected members of the national media that Cameron had re-signed with the Browns -- not just agreed to terms. The tweets, by Ian Rapoport of NFL Network, Rand Getlin of Yahoo Sports and Adam Schefter of ESPN, all came within four minutes of each other: at 5:55, 5:56 and 5:59.

A few minutes later, a source told Northeast Ohio Media Group that an agreement had not yet been reached despite the national reports. The feeling was, however, that something could happen soon.

When reports broke that Cameron was back with the Browns, he was actually still sitting inside the Dolphins facility, apparently hoping to sign with Miami. He had spent the entire day there and loved the organization. He was excited about quarterback Ryan Tannehill, the signing of Ndamukong Suh and all the things he heard during his visit.

The Dolphins, who placed the transition tag on their own free agent tight end Charles Clay and planned to sign him to an extension, sprang to action when they saw that Cameron had re-signed with the Browns. They called his agents and discovered that the deal hadn't actually been inked yet -- that there was still time to swoop in and snatch him away from the Browns. They hadn't made an offer to that point -- but quickly improved on the Browns' deal.

The tug-of-war for the Pro Bowler was played out on twitter.

At 7:47 p.m. Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports tweeted that "contrary to reports, tight end Jordan Cameron will be signing with the Dolphins, not the Browns. Contract details are being finalized now.''

At 8:35 p.m., Jason LaCanfora of CBS Sports tweeted that Cameron had a verbal agreement with the Browns for two years, $15 million.

Twelve minutes later, Robinson tweeted: "...It's done. Jordan Cameron has signed with the Miami Dolphins.''

At 9:16, the Miami Dolphins proclaimed: "We have signed Jordan Cameron!''

It wasn't exactly LeBron James taking his talents to South Beach, but it was still a punch in the gut to Browns fans needing some good news. Inside the walls of Berea, however, the Browns were not devastated by the departure.

In fact, they had tried to trade Cameron to the Seattle Seahawks last season for Percy Harvin, who was ultimately dealt to the Jets, a source told NEOMG. Cameron was looking for long-term deal worth about $8 million a year before last season, and the Browns weren't prepared to pay that much. Talks broke off and didn't resume until the season was over.

Cameron was not even the Browns' top priority tight end in free agency, according to sources. In fact, they really wanted to sign Clay, who received the transition tag of $7.017 million, which hasn't yet been removed despite the fact the Dolphins have signed Cameron.

But when it became apparent that the Bills were more likely to land Clay, the Browns' interest in Cameron perked up. For Cameron's part, he was prepared to move on if necessary, thinking a fresh start might be good for him. In his four seasons with the Browns, he had been through three different coaching staffs and countless quarterbacks.

The Bills are still in hot pursuit of Clay, and will likely make an offer within the next few days. With Cameron under contract, it's highly unlikely the Dolphins will match. Clay, who is not believed to be an option for the Browns, spent three days in Buffalo this week, even looking at houses. The Dolphins wanted to keep him, but brought Cameron to town on Thursday when it appeared Clay would be lost to the Bills.

The Browns, meanwhile, liked Cameron, but only at the right price, and decided not place the transition or franchise tag ($8.347 million) on him. Like other teams, they were somewhat concerned about the concussion history, which included three concussions in the span of about two years.

Their mindset was to let him hit the free agent market and set his price. Meanwhile, they expressed interest in a few tight ends, such as Cincinnati's Jermaine Gresham, who's still on the market, Panthers' tight end Ed Dickson, who re-signed with Carolina, and former Eagles tight end James Casey, who's also still available.

During his introductory press conference on Friday, Cameron stressed that he never had a verbal agreement with the Browns, or any kind of agreement on a deal. Nevertheless, someone -- presumably in his camp -- told three powerhouse news outlets that he had re-signed with the Browns, and within hours, he had a similar deal with Miami.

One source said, however that Cameron's contract with the Dolphins might not be as good as it sounds. It includes $5 million guaranteed -- and up to $2.5 million in bonuses for 2015 that are dependent on him being on the gameday roster. If he plays, he gets an extra $150,000 or so per game. His $7.5 million salary for 2016 is not guaranteed, meaning the Dolphins are off the hook if he can't stay healthy. At worst, it could be a one-year deal worth anywhere from $5 million to $7.5 million.

As for the Browns, they're still in the market for a tight end, and might now have to look for one in the draft.

Link

j/c...Thought it was funny ready the first page or so many disappointed we signed Cameron thought there would be more relief from him signing the Dolphins then were posted.

I was a big ehhh when we signed him, Glad a Brown stayed a Brown thought the price was too high and we all know he is a hit from retirement.

Vers...I thought Wallace signed with the Vikings and then they released Jennings today. Know I heard that on NFL Total Access.

Well big money should be done, now we will see a lot of one year Show me contracts I guess.

I hope all noticed how our entire Division were not messing with this signing. We have a lot of in house talent to keep here. More signings like Hughes going to get done the next 2 years. We liked a few - some might not of wanted to come here cause we don't have an established QB and our history of a lack of continuity.

Pettine will be here for a while...Winning will come - We just got to get that dang QB thing. Manziel is still our best shot, he has talent we are going all in I think - Next season will be a good QB draft class. To reboot on the QB hunt. Our D and OL is too good to be picking in the top 10 let alone top 5.

Eagles seem to be going all in - Wonder if Chip has something big coming up in college in 2016? Hope he fails for the simple reason I do not like the Eagles.

I heard that if we sign Clay Miami will not match...if the Bills sign him they will match.

Was wondering if that was the case Bill sign...Miami Matches...would they be able to trade him to us? Just curious.

Any news on Gresham...man I thought that kid was going to be the next great TE evidently his agent thinks he is?

I'm good with the small signings. I know Ozzie is a Hero to Farmer and he wants to model himself after him.
Its interesting with this compensentory stuff - thought it was bs at first. But its obvious and not that bad if you think about it.

Well Jennings was released from the Vikings, does he have gas in the tank?

QB, Left Tackles and Elite Edge Rushers - Three of the Parity breaking positions. Just don't reach the FA Market. Got to get them through the Draft.
CB for some reason the 4th of the Parity breakers reach the FA Market. Silly money spent on them also and most don't turn out well.

The guy I wanted actually was Vareen - guy is an excellent Receiving RB.

Well just popping by when I can - again it was funny - go read your posts.

jmho

Two words:

1. James
2. Harrison








I'd like to believe as you do... but they're out there.

At least Cabot is owning up to her mistake.

I for one am glad Cameron is gone. He is overrated to say the least. Good luck staying healthy in Miami.
I like Barnidge and Dray. When they are called upon, they produce, plus they can block. If you don't want to play for this organization,(I can understand not wanting to)see ya.........

When I read the thread's original title, I was surprised- but not really all that elated. When it was corrected to reflect the new info, I was like: "meh. OK- I guess."

He was exciting to watch in Norv's O, and made some great plays.

HOWEVER: I kinda got used to him not being on the field last year, and enjoyed watching Dray & Barnidge play pretty well in his absence.

I'm going to find it hard to really miss him, since I feel like we only 'sorta' ever had him in the first place.

I was more bummed to see us lose Buster.... as I enjoyed watching him learn the game throughout his first contract. I had a li'l bit of an emotional investment in his career, because so many fans called him 'trash' right out of the gate. He turned around a good number of opinions on this board, and it was fun to witness. I really think that he hasn't yet hit his ceiling, and could become a top-10-15 DB if he ever stops being so "handsy."

Oh well... that's why we have a draft every year.

.02

I liked Skrine too, but its seems like 2 or 3 times a game I would be yelling "turn around" at Buster trailing a WR. So many completions against him that should have been picks if he had only played the ball, instead of the receiver. I think he might learn that, and if he does he'll be very good CB because he has such an exceptional closing burst.

I wouldn't say I am "glad he's gone" but I will say I am not going to lose the slightest bit of sleep that he is gone though. I just don't understand the widespread panic that losing Jordan has seemed to generate with a few people. This dude at work feels like the sky is falling. Heck, losing Buster was a bigger hit than Jordan.

Maybe if we had Norv Turner's offense and pass-happy play calling style here, then yeah it would have been a bigger hit. But we don't and for Miami to say the concussions weren't a concern to them is either a huge lie, or a huge pile of stupidity.

You can say that again.He should get the "Shawn Lauvao" Award for being the most over rated.
I hope Dolphins are ready for a cupcake at TE who won't block and won't bulldoze LBs.
Wow Heckert really talent cupboard dry for Farmer.

IMO, any player that agrees to a contract with his team, and then at the last minute signs elsewhere for the same money is a scumbag.

The browns drafted him and put him on the map. They stuck with him although he missed many games. Screw him I hope Miami gets a little of his missed time, so they can see him for what he really is. A piss poor blocker, and a missing in action player. He has some talent, but he is not close to being a Gronk type player. IMO, there will be guys like him coming out at a dime a dozen.

Candlelight Cameron, can light it up when he is on fire but just a little blow is all it takes to put out his light.

As long as you stick to Schefter, Clayton, etc.. Twitter is still right far more often than it is wrong. They are both pretty good about being clear about when something is fact, and when it's just something they heard. Somehow this one got all messed up, not a real good reason to completely disallow a pretty reliable source. For the record, there were entire news articles run based on Cameron back to the Browns.. they also would have been wrong but would have been allowed.

Which tight ends besides Witten and Gronk block and are excellent receivers?

Panthers' Greg Olson is supposed to be a pretty good blocker - I know he's a good receiving TE.

Okay, so there are three guys in the league that block and are really good receiving threats?

My point remains the same. You don't have players like Jordan Cameron on your team because they are great blockers. You have them to catch passes.

Heath Miller used to be pretty good. He's up there in age now.

j/c

I thought this was interesting.

Reported by the Miami Herald:

With Suh's deal, there could be many cap casualties next year.

the real reason I was hoping we'd sign Cameron was so that we wouldn't feel forced to draft a TE with a high pick

That's one problem paying a guy like Suh that much money.

The other problem, in this case anyway, is that you get a guy that has issues being an idiot on the field. I mean, it really looks as if he TRIES to injure people. he's heading for a longer suspension.

I don't think they are forced. Cameron fits more in Norv Turner's offensive scheme. Pettine is wanting a hybrid, h-back/TE. I think that is why Jeff Heuerman is thought to be a good fit.

Cameron came from Californa, if he had a shot at getting out of the cold and playing for QB with some talent without losing money, he was gone...he got those things....don't miss him because he was hurt lots and next concussion, which will happen might finish his career....thanks for his efforts....glad he's gone....NOT FOR LONG....we need healthier TE....GO Browns!!!

well my point was not that they are forced to draft one in the 1st/2nd round, but getting Heuerman would still constitute us "wasting" a 3/4/5 rounder on a TE