Browns offense busy forming new identity

Kevin Jones Staff Writer

Cleveland Browns wide receiver Brian Hartline left his first meeting with his new team nearly awestruck. Quickly and with precision, offensive coordinator John DeFilippo installed nearly 100 passing plays on the second day of offseason workouts.

Coach Mike Pettine, who has embraced a more involved role on the other side of the football, sat quietly in the back of the meeting room taking notes, soaking in the often animated and compelling presentation.

“It would be difficult to doze off in one of his meetings,” Pettine said last week at his press conference after DeFilippo’s first time addressing Browns players. “I’ll put it that way.”

As much as Pettine and the culture change was a selling point to incoming free agents last month, so was DeFilippo’s creativity. From the moment he was hired, the 37-year-old play-caller has reiterated Cleveland’s offensive identity will be loose and fluid with the main objective of getting playmakers the football in space and scoring more touchdowns.

While the creativity will be ever-present, DeFilippo is practical, too. Instead of scrapping what the Browns did on offense in 2014, the coordinator has kept a hefty portion of the terminology the same and also adopted Cleveland’s zone-running system.

“The terminology is great,” Hartline said. “I’ve been around systems that are similar. At this point, I think everyone is just trying to grab their bearings because no one really has a leg up. When a new offensive coordinator comes in, everyone is learning from scratch.”

During phase one of the NFL’s offseason program, players are only required to be in the building for four hours at a time – with a mixture of classroom work and conditioning.

That’s why this time in April, May and June is so critical for the Browns’ offense. Players are obviously encouraged to dive deeper in their preparations at their homes. But the complexities and nuances of each play have to be hammered out in the classroom during the spring for improvements on the field to be seen once September rolls around.

“It’s about being good on that day and learning how to maximize our time here,” quarterback Josh McCown said. “Let’s leave this building every day getting a little bit better.”

Hartline later told reporters DeFilippo has required McCown and each of the other quarterbacks to stand up in front of the entire classroom and highlight the key points of each play.

“He hit it out of the park,” Pettine said. “I told the players in the team meeting that, ‘I can tell you why I hired the guy, but when you have your first meeting with him you’ll see why.’ To me, it comes down to it’s passion and it’s energy. He was great.”

Hartline simply called DeFilippo “awesome.”

“He and coach Pettine are reasons why I wanted to be here,” Hartline said. “Coming in and talking to those guys and really being on the same page and understanding football the same way and talking football in the same kind of language.”


Lnk

Question for any of you who have actually played or coached football: How smart is it to install almost 100 plays in day?

LOL........they never cease to boggle my mind.

After reading the article I just had to hit the link. I almost knew 100% where it would take me. And I was right. A "hired hand" writer.

Is it possible to install 10 plays? 5 receivers. Different routes depending on coverage. And then call that "100 plays"?

It's obviously possible since they accomplished that.

I just never believed in that type of philosophy.

I think you learn a play and master that play before moving on. I believe in quality over quantity. I think teams/classrooms get sloppy when you overwhelm your players/students w/an abundance of information at one time.

It's a process. Teach/learn one play at a time. Master it. Move on to the next play after that and then run the first mastered play every 4th or 5th snap while learning the second play. Then, introduce the third play. While mastering it, run the first and second play once every 8 or 9 snaps. Etc.

Overloading the brain is typically not successful. Take care of the small things and the big things will fall into place.

Btw--------I didn't invent that philosophy. I borrowed it from many, many great coaches.

By installed the writer means downloaded to their iPads, I hope.

100 plays in four hours does seem a bit excessive, though if that was all the base plays in the entire playbook and he was giving a general overview maybe that'd make sense.

I hate offseason articles, I'm ready to see action on the field.

We need to go 6 plays, Remember the Titans (movie) style.

"I run 6 plays, split veer. It's like Novocaine"

Agreed, for the most part.

My point was the "installed 100 pass plays" may just be 10 pass plays with 10 different possible routes on each play.

And, with 5 receivers, that's only 2 different routes per receiver per play, depending on what the d shows.

That's very, very possible. The article makes it sound like they learned 100 different plays, when I would guess they learned more like 10 plays - with different routes.

Mike Leach installed his entire offense in 3 days. He never had a problem with his offense.

That said, he could do it because of the amount of players he had, not because his students were extremely great at memorizing.

i think i get what your saying but.... doesnt that mean the QB has to learn all of them?

Not a fan of Mike Leach. But again, we all have our own philosophies of how things should be done.

my guess is with the limited player contact in the off season, the coaches want to expose the players to as much info as possible. And then the players are expected go home and study and learn the plays and the terminology between now and the OTA's. I would rather the players come back knowing 100 plays vs 10 plays.... this is a job and I think its just part of holding the players accountable.

I would also speculate that in these plays, there are similar if not the same terminology for a certain pattern or route- the repetition in a "new" play actually will help learn the terminology. Once the basic terminology is learned, then the number of plays just mushrooms exponentially by calling out the different combinations... before you know it, there aren't just a hundred plays, but an entire play book.

Again..............different philosophies.

We'll see how well it works out for this offense.

But leach didn't go into much detail in his offense.

Heard the Connor Halliday interview by Pat Kirwin. One of the things he said was rht Leach installed a passing play. Halliday asked what the footwork was, Leach replies what do you mean. Well is it a 3 step drop or a 5 step drop. Leach comes back with you figure out what works best timing it up with the receivers.

Absolutely. The qb has more learning to do than any other offensive player.

However, saying "100 pass plays were installed" does not mean "100 pass plays were perfected". To me, it means ...say...10 pass plays were installed, with a combination of 100 different plays.

And no where did it say "100 pass plays were perfected."

Installed and perfected are 2 different things.

Installed and being able to run them are 2 different things.

I think that's a bit unfair. The Air Raid is suppose to give QBs almost-ultimate freedom. The offense just didn't need to detail the drop back. That said, he really systematized the Air Raid. You would either be a Receiver X, Y, or Z and the routes you needed to memorize was based on all of that.

So instead of learning all the routes on any given play you just had to know one. I think the results speak for themselves.

General thought.

Just make sure they get the ball downfield. Please!
Pass plays for a short gain really hurt.

Just pointing out that Leach installing 100 plays would be significantly different than an NFL team installing 100 different plays

Its the Al Saunders/Coryell offense. 700 pages of dynmic offense. Which i am sure Flip has his own version but I am curious to see how it works.

j/c

When he became the offensive coordinator in Washington last year, commanding a three-year, $6 million salary, Saunders caught some heat for the complexity of his 700-page playbook. Critics said it was too hard for the average football player to digest.

Truth be told, the size estimates were inaccurate.

"If you took all of Al's playbook, it's a hell of a lot more than 700 or 800 pages," said Dick Vermeil, who won a Super Bowl with Saunders in St. Louis and racked up offensive records in Kansas City. "But it's not all in [the players'] book.



Link

It says he has the QBs stand up and talk about the highlights of each day. When it says installed, I think it means he went through a set of plays with a common theme and the idea was to understand the concept, then go home and study the exact aspects of each play.

It's like having a history teacher talk for an hour and fifteen minutes in a lecture on WWII.. you can cover a tremendous amount of information but if you don't go home and study, you aren't going to actually learn it.

It's probably 25 plays with various options. Man in motion or not becomes 50 plays. Play action or not becomes 100.

Why do we need a NEW identity?

I REALLY enjoyed that no huddle, zone running, play action based offense that we ran to perfection the first five games of the season last year.

Can't we PLEASE just stick to that!?

Crowell & West can collectively carry this offense.

I coach a little defense.. on the first day of the install
the DL learns four formations and two slants on the snap
the LB learn four formations ( depth and width)
the safeties four
the Corners three

So technically they learn 288 plays ( actually more but who has time to count ALL the variations possible)

Did I mention they are 3/4 graders?

later we add a few other formations and all the blitz packages

Depends on counting. If right and left count as two, then it is 50. Or mirrored sets. If it is a route tree, then each route is a "play" in a mix. If it is 100 different plays, never a good thing unless you coach the Wallopin' Einsteins, then maybe. Not sure I would crow about this.

Reminded of a D-2 team, believe they won the playoffs. They only had 3 plays, run on either side, and 2 or 3 pass routes. They ran the devil out of them. And won.

"Wrinkles" if counted, variations on the same play, could be jacking that number. Sounds like if our games are played in that room with enthusiastic coaches, we will be fine. Glad they are getting after it hard. But while gushing about this off-season stuff, homer journalism cannot lose track of the real important stuff.

This offense has never had an identity. If we ever keep the same scheme for more than two years, I'd like to "think" our identity would be a hardcore, smash mouth run first team.

If we have a choice, I'd like our identity to be "Scores a TD on every possession"

The use of "new identity" definitely didn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy. To an extent, I suppose every season has a new identity with players coming and going and the natural evolution/expansion of the playbook, but I would love to see more consistency. I like Mike Pettine's hard nosed attitude and hope we stick with a run heavy, play action based offense. I'm curious to see how Flip's getting playmakers the ball in space plays out. If it's within that heavy running, play action framework, great. If not, count me a little concerned. Only time will tell.

I do like the vibe and mesh of the team that I'm getting, but it's easy to feel that in the offseason. I want to see it hold up through the rigors of the season.

I really like that DeFilippo is trying to incorporate terminology from our last system to help make the transition easier.

I like that he's having the players "drink from the fire hose" right now. I think he will slow things way down when training camp comes around in order to start mastering plays. Keeping major elements from the previous offense (specifically, the stuff that worked like the ZBS) will also help a ton.

There's not much to get too excited or angry about as far as what we're going to be like next season, but a coordinator that can implement his own offense while having the flexibility to keep what worked really well last year is a plus.

Dang Bard, that's funny!

j/c: Personally, I think it is ignorant to force feed a bunch of plays on players at one time. You guys seem okay w/it. Kinda figured you would be.

I think it is like math. You don't teach a kid how to understand place value, add, subtract, multiply, divide, do all of those operations w/decimals and fractions, solve equations, measure w/a ruler, use a protractor, solve elapsed time, plot coordinates on a graph, understand slope, algebra, data analysis and probability, and geometry at once.

It's a progression and one thing leads to another. Things build off of the the previous unit of study.

I imagine music is similar. I doubt that young musicians start off by playing complex pieces. They probably learn at slow and steady pace that is designed to build off of the previous experience.

And I think if you move on to a new play before you master the current one, than you are doing your team a disservice.

Take care of the little things and the big things come together.

I kinda get what you are saying Vers, but I don't think the analogy really holds. These aren't peewee football players. These are professional football players who have spent most likely half their lives honing their football craft. They are new plays, but it's still football and familiar concepts. I think as far as the learning part (as opposed to the execution phase which I'd want much slower), it's more like giving them new problems, but they already know the formulas to use to solve them.

This isn't the perfecting stage, we're still in the early going. Hopefully we're all getting on the same page with terminology and basics of the play calls rather than the "graduate level details." Sort of a this is more or less what we want to do so everyone can start to get comfortable with it.

We can disagree. No problem.

I get that they aren't little kids. But they are not exactly the smartest guys in the world either. Most are here because of their athletic talent, not their mental capacity.

I still think it is a mistake to move on [no matter what level] to a new play before mastering the prior one.

I think it is a simple concept, but apparently most people don't think that way.

I'm not an apologist for management or the coaching staff, I think for myself, period. I also can't get worked up based on unconfirmed second hand statements about what is taking place in Berea. Whatever is or has taken place in the classroom has to have some order, purpose and logic. Absent any concrete information to the contrary I have no basis for criticism. If any of the above elements were missing then it's on Pettine to make Flip aware of his concerns. The reports says he was in the room while Flip was leading the class. I didn't sense any bewilderment by Hartline in his remarks. He seemed impressed by Flips intensity and passion.

I can only speak for myself. Some of the best classes I've ever had were taught by people who were passionate and energetic about the material they were presenting.

It's not even that we disagree, I agree that we want to master a play before moving on to the next. However, I don't think we're at that stage yet. Players can't even get on the field with coaches yet. I look at it like if the season were a semester, "installing 100 plays" is like being handed the syllabus. It's most likely a poor choice of words by the Browns' staff writer. You're not going to perfect a play in a classroom, Athletes learn plays on the field through performing them in my experience.

Are you saying that you can't be passionate when teaching one play at a time?

Good point.

I think "installing" 100 plays, is a poor choice of words, and probably used by the writer to build a good vibe with the fans.

IMO, at this stage, the players have been "exposed" to 100 plays. I doubt highly anyone knows them all. But most football plays are based on the same concepts. I mean, I've seen the pros run plays that 8th graders run. They are probably taught more in depth, but basically they are the same play.

I think the were shown 100 plays, and now have them in their playbook to study. The mastering will probably be done more on the lines of Vers philosophy. One at a time, once they hit the practice field.

Also, I'm betting there are many plays that are the same as last year.

jc
I believe a lot of the terminology is the same from last year too.

If DeFilippo is to be believed, yes.

No, If I were saying that, I would have said it.

What I am saying is that this is an argument about very little. There are numerous productive ways that material can be presented. I'm also putting the unconfirmed "100 installed plays" remark in context with the entirety of Hartline's comments. When I read Hartline's remarks I didn't sense any confusion, frustration or uncertainty. What I took from his overall statement was excitement, enthusiasm and readiness to get things going.

Ultimately what I'm care about are results on the field. If I start hearing that guys are confused about their roles. Play calls are too long and complex or how the old scheme was better or easier to understand, then I'll have a reason to be concerned. It will take more than three words to set my hair on fire.

Nothing personal, I absolutely understand your concern and I do agree with it, but I think those concerns at this juncture are lacking context.

We have a new first time OC, Manziel is back, its year 2 for Pet who just led us to 7-9 (and with consistent average QB play likely the doorstep of the playoffs), its a new season, etc etc... there's a lot of excitement and the author is paid to help whip that up. I think saying a 100 plays while has SOME basis in truth, I also think its likely a bit of an exaggeration to portray BIG things are going on.

I mean honestly, if the headline read: Mike Pet's New High Energy OC Flip installs 5 plays on First Day... don't you think most people would find it rather underwhelming?

The biggest problem IMO is that the author used the term "installed".

I don't have a problem with installing 100 plays in a day.

It might seem like a lot of plays, but it might be something like one play with 5 different options of that one play...thus it might actually break down to only 20 different plays with 5 options.

Until I hear players complaining that they can't handle the load that Flip is putting on them, I have no problem with installing 100 plays.

J/C...
I think this is the product of the new CBA - We are only allowed 4 hours a day with the team and that includes - conditioning and technique as well as the class room. 100 plays Over kill? I think it is the necessity of the times. Installed - Zip Zap Jett motion, formations. I'm not sure did it say PASS PLAYS? So we are talking 10 plays from each formation with a Left & Right doubling the count. Explained by the QBs in front of the class - with questions answered and a 100 play section of the play book high lighted so each players brings it home as HOMEWORK to study cause under the new rules that is where a good portion of the memory of the play book will be done - at home.

What was not said was that each day in succession he put in 100 plays...that would be confusing.

I think what is happening is that they are installing 100 plays. Go home learn it. We will run it as close to perfection as we can during camp...then we will install another 100 plays.

I think some who think its way too much in one day envision us putting in another 100 plays in a day or two and then 100 more. I am of course not certain but I would think we just put in the first installement - 100 plays.

And I think it was the way he did it. Where there is multiple plays off of one formation and its is to take advantage of defenses who will adjust and we then show the same thing and do something off of that adjustment. So it is not just memorized but UNDERSTOOD by all.

I also like how the QBs take turns in the explainer of the play cause when you teach its one of the best way to learn!

jmho

Think he said that HE would learn the new terminology rather than the whole team "worshipping" his playbook. That impressed me as a solid coaching move.

Thanx.

I thought our "new identity" thang was pathetic as much as historical IMO.

j/c

I think the entire term of "New identity" is quite foolish.

I mean we lost our last 5 games in a row. Once Hoyer lost his effectiveness, we really were not good at running or passing the ball.

To me our O entered this season without ANY identity. You have to have an identity to begin with, before you can create a new one.

Why should we care at this point if they have an identity?

At this point we need a QB way more.....

Hmmm so they can never have an identity by your statement, since they need one to create a NEW one and they now have none so a new one can never be created.

At this point we need "the right QB".

We've had the wrong one over and over again.

No, it's called creating an identity. You can't re-create something you never had.

If they create one it would be a new identity and you stated they can't create one because they never had one.

New identity suggests you're replacing the old identity. When you have no identity, you have to create one to begin with.

You're purely debating semantics here.

Maybe NO IDENTITY was the Identity and now we are forming a NEW IDENTITY and it will be different than the OLD NO IDENTITY...

Well no matter what happens, I hope we finally find an identity!

at this point, I'd consider endorsing the idea of identity theft

Haha, well done.

I just hope our new identity is not sucking. That would be great.

Can't be, that wouldn't be new.

Not sucking would most definitely be new.

So it's not a new born baby, it's just a born baby.. since it wasn't a baby before.

We had an identity. It was running the ball when everyone knew we were going to run the ball.

Ok, I read your comment completely different..

If you read it, I just hope our new identity isn't sucking.. it has a whole different meaning.. but I see what you meant now.

I see what you are saying I just misinterpreted what posted before.

That was a funny run of comments. lol

Yep.

Isn't that sort of what we're doing by keeping most of what Shanny left?? lol

For that volume I bet the offense will be some kind of read option. Give the guys 20 plays then use a coded system to call out the routes for up to 5 variations. They call a formation and the QB reads the defense and yells out adjustments to the WR. Boom instantly a different play while still being the same. Just keep it to 5 base sets during preseason and teach teh QB to change the WR route based on the defense he sees. One code for the route and one code for the distance to run it. Simple and done.

We now have a plethora of Defensive lineman to play WR, TE and QB!
Great going "texting" GM!

Take a deep breath, step back, and look at our entire roster now.

Who in our division has a better roster in its entirety?

The D is shaping up, but there is no offense still.

Quick change.

We have a mediocre passing offense.

mediocre? Have you looked at our QB's?

grim..wouldn't it be great if division winners were decided by analyzing each team's roster?

Now, back to reality...where did the Browns finish in the division last year?...LAST!

Every team in our division has a better roster than the Browns..until the Browns prove differently on the field!

That would help the league cut down on injuries

Good news is that we have 100 pass plays,now wejust lacking receivers...

lol

Bradford might damage his knee taking a stack of papers to the shredder

So looking at our offense right now and thinking... I'm going to predict several two TE sets.

I'm not sure what TE we have currently on the roster that will lineup in the traditional fullback spot, as we don't have a fullback. I just wish Flip had some nfl OC experience so I have a legit idea and evidence as to what he likes. Formations, play calling and etc.

I'll bet there are going to be a few DC around the league who feel the same.

Do you know how pathetic that sounds? More 2 TE sets? We aren't even capable to run a pro offense like most pro offenses run.
This is 2015, not 1945.

The Browns' offense has an identity that is based on the performance of our management, coaching staff and the performance of our offensive players, on the field and off the field.

This is an example of what many think of the Browns offense...


Browns to DeVante Parker’s mom: Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah

Posted by Darin Gantt on May 4, 2015, 6:21 AM EDT

New Dolphins wide receiver DeVante Parker was relieved that the Browns decided to pass on him at No. 12.

Or at least his mother was.

“We didn’t want him going to Cleveland,” Raneca Parker told Adam Beasley of the Miami Herald, after the Dolphins took him with the 14th pick. “They don’t have a team, really, or a quarterback. I knew I didn’t want the Cleveland Browns.

“I know the teams the teams he could go to and the teams he couldn’t go to. We were happy with the Miami Dolphins. He was very ecstatic. We’re happy, we love the weather.”

As much as that might sting, the Browns replied, albeit indirectly, that they didn’t like Parker either.

According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Browns passed on him because “they felt he wasn’t tough enough and didn’t love the game enough.”

At least DeVante knows his mother loves him and — since he’s a receiver who might need a quarterback some day — has his best interests at heart.
link


That is reality..that is what some think of the Browns ..“They don’t have a team, really, or a quarterback."

It is up to management, the coaching staff and especially the players to change this perception.

It is up to management (Haslam and Farmer) to bring in the talent Pettine and his coaching staff need. For the most part, IMO, I believe management is deferring to Pettine's judgement at every position... but QB.

Management got rid of a QB who went 7-6 as our starter in 2014 and are counting on...

...veteran QB,Josh McCown, who was 1-10 as a starter in 2014.

...Manziel, who went 0-2 as a starter last season.

...Thad Lewis, who did not play in 2014

...and Connor Shaw, who was 0-1 as a Browns starter in 2014.

This is the QB talent Halsam and Farmer provided for Pettine's offense in 2015. Pettine added an offensive coordinator and QB coach, who have the job of trying to make our offense productive enough to win.

The Browns management, coaches and players are responsible for rebuilding the Browns offense and forming a new identity..hopefully an identity based on winning.

We shall see...

Dude, what is wrong with having some two TE sets/formations when you're clearly going to build yourself on the run game? A lot of teams do it, regardless of the year. Not sure the point you was trying to make there but... I don't care if the offense was as high school as can be, if it works, are you really going to sit there and continue to complain about it?

Well, knowing you, maybe you would LOL JK Super bro!

Really mac?! You're going to give credence to what somebody's mom says?

that was an article

She was offended simply because we didn't consider drafting HER...

Do you know how pathetic that sounds? More 2 TE sets? We aren't even capable to run a pro offense like most pro offenses run.
This is 2015, not 1945.

Actually I would like to welcome you to 2015 football and the Zone Blocking scheme. Spread offense you can run a stretch blocking scheme but its very hard to run a Zone Blocking scheme with 5 usually you need 6.

46 Read Right ZBS - TE right. You have the TE n Tackle double the 4-3 DE RG seals his DT Center and LG double the back side DT and LT takes guides the offside DE a step deep then 2nd level. RB has two doubles...point of attack and the backside cut back run.

Then you have the Power ZBS 46 read where the Center has the seal angle on the backside DT and the LG pulls leading into the 4-6 holes pending on the double of the DE.

With a 46 stretch - no TE or the TE in the slot - he can make a cut back block to seal as we spread the D out. But that would be up to the pass catcher.

Dray can catch don't know about the new guys. I think the first of the 2 TE is the FB/Hback and we can go with 3WRs and no TE or have a TE with 2 WR and either run/pass -
With our OL becoming precision and talented add a blocking TE and a FB - remember teams are daring us to pass putting 8 in the box.... Imagine us saying - SCREW you we can run over you....now you got 9 in the box and 2 more Peaking so that play action will be a killer!

Anyway I think that is why we stocked up with exceptional blocking TEs. Not archaic...and in many of our good flow offense especially with Mack there we had some good use of the blocking TE (Cameron btw was utilized but Gosh Gosh awful) As long as our TE can run the Seam route and Corner routes when needed that will be useful.

jmho

As much as you were pimping Jalston Fowler, it's funny to see you talking about "2015" football.

Schemes are cyclical. As opponents adjust to a more pass happy league, teams will go back to emphasizing the run. We might be on the "cutting edge" for once.

I don't care if we run the Wing-T if it works.

Who was the top wide receivers in the super bowl? Not a stellar group. The Patriots have a great QB that can can make any offense work. But the Seahawks have an average QB with a great defense and a very good running game. The Browns do not have a Tom Brady type QB so why not build a team in their image with a great defense and running game.

Russell Wilson is average?

[font:Book Antiqua][/font]

yeah... he's pretty average

He's very average - as in Average Good QB

Now this is a good debate question. Rank QBs in the league. Where do you put Wilson near the top, middle, or end?

I would slide Wilson near Flaco and Elli Manning. Wilson is a product of his surroundings. That is not terrible. It simply means Wilson thrives with the right pieces. It is why I have hope Manziel works for the Browns.

For just the 2015 season:

1. Rodgers
2. Luck
3. Manning
4. Brady
5. Brees
6. Roethlisberger
7. Wilson
8. Rivers
9. Romo
10. Ryan
11. Newton
12. Manning
13. Stafford
14. Flacco
15. Smith
16. Tannehill
17. Cutler
18. Bridgwater
19. Kaepernick
20. Bradford
21. Foles
22. Dalton
23. Carr
24. Palmer
25. Winston
26. Griffin
27. Mariota
28. Cassel
29. Hoyer
30. McCown
31. Smith
32. Bortles

I did this in about five minutes, so I can probably be talked out of several of my positions.

You give Wilson more credit than I. Wilson is untested without Lynch. Again, that isn't a bad thing. I simply don't think Wilson's passing game is in the same company as Romo, Rivers, and Ryan.

I get the argument Seattle's receivers aren't the best. I actually think Cleveland's receivers, as of today, are better. With that said, Wilson hasn't proved he can be that guy.

Newton...way to much love!! I know you whipped up!

I will give you Rivers and maybe Ryan over Wilson but NOT Romo ... Sorry bugs

shaw, thad, johnny, and pee wee hermen are better than him.

Why is HOYER up there even at 29? If you got to the Texans Official Site on their Depth chart it looks like this:
QB Ryan Mallett Brian Hoyer Tom Savage

Just like McCown is our QB going into camp so is Mallet for the Texans.

maybe you missed this part:
"I did this in about five minutes, so I can probably be talked out of several of my positions."

FWIW.

Great post, and I like the tech side, Eo. Thanks.

As a general observation, we have a history of drafting players and not using their skills that are strengths. Or calling plays into weaker skills, like Cameron needing a key overwhelming block. Part of this observation is repeatedly calling weak plays which haven't produced well, and using players beyond their demonstrated strengths. Blitzers who don't and go to cover, deep threats who don't get sent, etc.

Part of this is who is taken, part is how they get used, and part is, do their strengths get called into a play? I think that is where big plays and sustained drives come from. two up the middle into a loaded box and third and long seldom results in scoring TDs. This is simplified, but the TE use is still viable IMO, and can work in the NFL.

In that order? Rated PeeWee higher.

Thanks but for the record I didn't really contribute much it must be cfrs not me. OH you mean the earlier post...thanks with NO Buts

superbowldogg...yeah I thought he meant in the rankings that it could be changed if convinced. Cause he put it up there quick...I just thought he should know on the camp starter designated on the Site Depth Chart has Mallet as the starter...we all know just like with McCown it doesn't mean he will be the starter Game #1.

LOL Some "one" rated McCown as high as 30...