Upon a deeper look with the offense,this what I have concluded.

Flip and the existing talent are a not a good fit for each other.

Flip is a 1st year play caller. working with a QB who's been with more teams than the CFL has a total of
another QB who isn't quite ready to step in as a #1 and has a ways to go.
has a core of RBs in which neither has claimed the starting role.
a core of WR's who have good hands but no one WR commands a double team downfield.
a core of TEs who collectively aren't the Top 16 of the NFL.

now you go to the other side. You have a mesh mash of talent on offense working with a 1st year OC.

my point nether Flip or the pieces assembled don't compliment each other.
look at the other AFC North offenses..their talent and OCs compliment each other.

I just don't see a good marriage.

when was the last time the Browns had a OC that was really any good? Daboll was a favorite around here for whatever reason. Carthpn did everything with a crayon.
I think Shanhan had a real idea what he wanted.

This offense is gonna struggle badly. The QB hamstrings the OC and the OC hamstrings the offense.

I'm not sure what Flip's style is or what OC would match our talent on offense, but I'm pretty confident in one statement:

If we had a franchise QB most, if not all, of our offensive deficiencies would be hidden.


Our line would be dominant because teams couldn't stack the box or blitz like crazy, our RBs would have fewer tacklers to contend with, our WRs would benefit from accurate passes and a smart deliverer.

Basically, give us Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Luck, Ben, Manning, etc ... and we'd be considered Super Bowl contenders

How can one make this assessment after two preseason games where players are being rotated in and out, there is no scheming of the other team in likely any fashion, there's about as vanilla and base formations as can be and the list continues.

You don't even know how or really what Flip's offense is going to be, so IMO, a bit judgmental. There are a lot of shifts going on in practice, but we've not seen any really in these preseason games. We've not seen Flip's real offense yet.

Well said.

If the Browns offense came out and scored 14 pts against the Bills in its 1st 2 drives I wouldn't be hearing all these apologies for Flip and the offense.
I heard the same excuses under other Browns OC's every preseason.

go by what your eyes see,not blind optimism.

The biggest problem with the offense is the pre snap formations, the pre snap line up and all of it from the spacing between the offensive linemen to the placement of the tight end, even the skill players.

This has been a problem for fifteen FREAKING years. What it manifests into, is not just a lack of good pass protection, but no pass protection whatsoever.

First thing I'd do is rip those hash marks off the practice field, so the line could start lining up with varying distances between their shoulders. Mix up the gaps, stand wider apart,
It's called multiple sets, isn't it.

And maybe, just maybe, once in a while, the Qb wouldn't instantly check down to an almost pick 6 for a wideout to the sideline for a 0-2 yard gain with absolutely NO CHANCE for a first down,

Just because the D shows a blitz.

Can you explain what you mean by this THROW LONG?

I'm not being a jerk .... I'm curious because I'm not an X and O guy at all.

What do you mean by presnap formations, etc?

Agreed. Not to mention all the injuries we've had to our backs and receivers. To early to judge. Have to get healthy.

The problem is that we don't have NFL caliber skill position players or QB.

The patience that we must show to allow the time for the various factors to gel...

would Tim Couch have been successful with this current line, the WRs and the RBs?

Yes,I believe he would have. He had more talent than anyone we currently have.

YEP !! And yes, I think Couch would be successful - certainly more successful than McCown and Johnnie !

My In saw a preseason game.

The QB is Josh McCown.

Well, if the field is 53 yards wide, the amount of that space which the offense occupies with it's formation, from tackle to tackle, or tight end to tight end, is what I'm referring to. The 1997 Denver Broncos used one particular formation, in their Super Bowl, where in they neutralized the Packers safety's ability to blitz or tackle runningbacks, and this was noted during the commentary. I don't think the Browns ever line up that wide.
If you satellite view the Berea practice field, as of a few years ago, there appear hash marks, 5 wide, where in a Line could spot themselves to line up shoulder width apart, at a couple points on that field. Now if the line always lines up with the same width between them, which I feel is too narrow for some times, then it would be predictable.
Varying the width from tackle to tackle could at times give the defenses less predictable lanes with which to manifest that the Browns have suddenly no pocket, and no pass protection.

our main problem on offense is that no system stays in place long enough for it to be second nature and no QB lasts long enough to build any real chemistry with his teammates. It matters a lot when a QB and WR know mentally how the other likes to get out of a tough situation because everything happens so fast there is no real time to think. You have to read and react instantly and with no real chemistry that just doesn't happen quickly enough.

Okay I got ya ... so the spacing in between linemen can tipoff the defense in different ways ... yet you're saying the Browns never vary their spacing, which makes stuff obvious/easier on the D

I actually didn't know you could vary your spacing, but now that I think about it that's a good point

Thanks

A few weeks is not enough time to install and learn how to run a complex offense.

Any way you want to slice it, a new OC with his own playbook for the offensive guys adds up to a reload, as in here we go again.

I realize Flip is expected to be the Browns OC for the next few years, but that does not change what the 2015 season is for this group of offensive players. It is another year of learning a bunch of new stuff.

Add a new offensive scheme to a less than stable QB situation and it adds up to another offensive unit that is going to need "time to gel"...just like last season (2014)..and the season before (2013).

Again, Browns fans will be asked to be patient..

Is complex always better?
The story with the Browns is always the same
New 1st yr OC comes in with all these ideas and ends up failing.
Never to have another OC job in the NFL again when he's replaced by another 1st yr OC.

Yeah, like Norv Turner and Rob Chudzinski!

And Brad Childress!

Childress is a OC for who now?
Chud is getting coffee and snacks for who..the Colts?

Chud the first time. Childress and Turner were not "new" first year coordinators.

Other former offensive coordinators:

Bruce Arians (what has he done?)
Jeff Davidson (later the Panthers offensive coordinator)
Brian Daboll (later the offensive coordinator for the Chiefs and the Dolphins)

Add them to Chud, Turner, Childress and you are way off.

The only coaches to leave the team and then not be a coordinator somewhere else are Maurice Carthon and Pete Carmichael.

But, yeah, keep making stuff up.

No QB + NO playmakers + BAD GM = FAILURE and starting over again every year.

what would be your realistic solution to ending the cycle of ineptitude?

Hire Gruden to be GM/Coach
Draft one of the "Franchise" QB's next year
Sign best WRs/RBs possible

It is not a coincidence that we keeping turning over coaches and have no QB. Get the QB, stability magically comes.

well that would be a start. proven coach, franchise QB, and the best WRs and RBs in the nfl.

We hired Shanny last year and I thought he was excellent. He wanted out of town and got a job right away.

Many will paint Shanny as some evil villain, but it really irks me that we lost such a good coordinator because our front office was so meddlesome.

I agree he was very good, but I don't think it was just the FO meddling. I think the building aspect of the situation was not for him. I think he is confident of what he can do, and wants a roster with talent.

I don't blame him, with a group of talented players, he could do some good. He has a bit of an ego, and I think he wants the headlines right now.

That being said, personally, I don't like him. He comes across. to me, as an arrogant baby. But, that's just me.

His competence has nothing to do with my feelings. He's going to be around for a long time with a lot of success. I just don't think he was a fit with a building franchise with a lot of growth needed. He wants it now and he wants it all.

I think that is the image that many are trying to paint, but I don't really believe that. I think he is very confident in his abilities and freaked out when the FO tried to tell the coaching staff which players to keep, release, and play.

I really don't think there was a problem between Shanny and Pet. Pet is simply doing the best he can to keep things rolling. I am almost positive he did NOT like the interference from the FO either, but he is smart enough to keep his mouth shut about it.

I disagree. Shanny took the Browns job because it was the last available. Philosophies set by Pettine and Farmer really don't show case Shanny's abilities. When he heard there was a chance in Atlanta, I think he did whatever it took to get out of Cleveland. I'm pretty sure the "text" card was one of the items played.

I like Shanny. Atlanta has more attributes fitting his style. Besides Ryan is a much better fit than either Hoyer or Manziel. I also think Manziel's immaturity didn't bring a vote of confidence. Shanny's goals is HC. It wasn't looking promising something good happening anytime soon.

Disagree w/what? You didn't address any of the points I made.

The main problem I see with the offense,is that they take the field. Other than that,they look pretty good.

I see a hell of a lot of this going on around here

I don't think Pettine and Shanny saw eye-to-eye. Why else does Pettine make it a priority understanding what the offense is doing this year? Supposedly he knows Flip. Yet he feels it is a must attending offensive meetings and study detail.

I have no proof. I think Shanny did his own thing. Pettine couldn't explain what Shanny was doing. It didn't make Pettine look good with his meetings with Ray. I'll bet there were decisions agreed upon by Ray and Pet. Those decisions weren't happening which led to a few "text" messages.

guess he doesnt trust flip?

Again, I think that is untrue. I do think some posters mentioned the possibility of it and that led to other posters believing it was true, but the evidence does not suggest that. In fact, in Shanny's 30 some point presentation to Haslam, he talked about the coaching staff as one and how they were upset w/the interference from the FO.

Couldn't be that Pettine realizes one of his own shortcomings so is working to better understand the "other side of the ball". Couldn't be that he's striving to become a better HC. Couldn't be that he feels comfortable with Jim O'Niel and feels he can take this opportunity to become a more complete HC.

Couldn't be anything positive.

Why is every little thing met with suspicion and doubt?

J/C..

Reading through most of you guys posts makes me start re-evaluating my view of Pettine. This isn't about liking...disliking Pet, It's more about his capabilities to coach this team to the big game.

Until the end of this season, only then i feel I can justify the stance I have on him.. You guys really bring up points that make me kind of question what the team has in him.

Seeing Buffalo's D the other night started this process for me.. Many of you pointing out that when Pet was in Buffalo he had very good talent on his " D " . but yet failed in the run stop game.

Having been practicing with Buffalo two days prior to the Thursday night game and seeing some of the play made me wonder if.. WE just sat back and played down to be vanilla and rest some guys and not put others at risk for injury... The Coaches got to get a feel for the players during those two days of practice, they probably got to see what they needed to. So maybe a pre-season game win wasn't the big concern for them.

Now with the talk of Pet and Shanny again. I start wondering if it is really a good thing for Pet to get involved with the " O " and just how involved should he get... I saw the vid in another thread where Pet wanted Shanny to Run the ball... and Shanny looked at pet and gave him that look... Pet said okay do your thing.

It made me wonder just how much of that went on during the season.. Is it common for most HC's to do that ? Probably ... But are.. were the circumstances for it right ? and when is it ?

Once again I bought into accepting and liking Pet because I heard he's from a football family.. A knowledgeable father and one who won a lot.. and one who passed his knowledge onto his son.. Again.. this knowledge was all at the HS level.. Don't get me wrong.. I respect what the Pettines have accomplished... I just feel like Pet has a lot of learning to do in the NFL level.

I'am more than willing to give Pet all the time he needs to learn , grow and succeed in the NFL.. it's just this getting involved with the " O " that has me curious on if it is going to be a good thing or not. only time will tell.

I'm some what comparing this to choosing a book to read or even buying a car. What attracted me to it ? was it the fancy cover that drew my attention to it ? The fancy paint job and body style ?...Or was it the words in the reviews that sold me on it ?

All I know is I don't know what I have until I get inside of it.. Are the words written inside the book drawing me into a good story .. Or is it one of those books where I tell myself..."the cover was the best thing, sure was disappointed " Or did I say " damn that was a great read "

Same as that fancy car.. Did the Motor perform well and get me where i needed to be... or did it putter out and leave me stranded..

I guess what Im saying is ..what got me sold on Pet ? His looks ? his apparent knowledge of the game ? his abilities to Coach this team to a Super Bowl ? His words he used ? I just don/t know...

Many posts from different posters and every ones different views on different threads sure got me wondering what to expect... I do know what is said is nothing more than some ones review on a matter... But you all have brought up some very good points...

Pre-season is like a book cover...It's there to get your attention... get you to get interested.. but doesn't let you know whats really inside.... The Season is opening the book and reading it to the end... Hoping the story starts off good and carries through to the end.. Nothing worse than putting down a book and not wanting to pick it back up...

I'm anxious to begin this story and hope that when I read the words the end... I can tell myself.. "Damn that was exciting "

I really like Pettine so far. Not crazy about Farmer so far.

But both are very new at their respective positions. To me, they're both works in progress. So my opinions are based on small sample sizes which could change as they evolve.

I do find it concerning that it seems everyone of our top level coaches are new at their respective positions. For this to have any reasonable expectations of quick success, it's like expecting every rookie you draft to be great picks and turn out well in a single draft class.

That really decreases the odds when you expect a first time HC, first time GM, first time DC and first time OC to all pan out.

I've heard of the 30 point presentation. Has anyone seen this list? I thought it was leaked out a power point presentation was given. From there, media speculated what was on it. I'll admit I've never seen it. If posted and I missed, I'll shut up.

I don't think we should expect quick success.

And while I do think it's concerning that all the high level folks are first timers, we've also tried proven guys to help the HC that didn't work out either. Childress didn't make a difference. Turner and Horton didn't make a difference. Hell, our best season in 2007 was with a first time HC in his third season, a first time DC in his third season, and a first time OC in his first season. Not a lot of experience there.

But you know what happened? We got great QB play and the record reflected it.

This is going to be a rocky season unless Manziel really comes on. I think we should all expect that. I think we should all expect this to be a rocky season.

https://youtu.be/CScPNoIkq_w

I believe it will be a tough season as well. As long as this regime shows steady progress heading in the right direction, I'm fine with that. Sometimes that isn't directly reflected on the W/L record.

As far as the "one season" you described, I believe a part of the reason was the team going all out buying up FA contracts to win before Al died.

And I believe we can both agree that we aren't looking for a "one hit wonder" type of season, but rather a strong team in the form of a dynasty being built. For the team and coaching staff to grow together to make us a force year in and year out.

biggest problem on offense is that it's trash.

well.... we are the browns thats why.....

... and in my opinion that is the basic rationale behind the rampant dogging on the team.

There is a lot of value in mindfully pointing out the problem issues with the team.

There is no value in mindlessly pointing out everything as a negative.

very simple and basic. he learned that you can trust no one last year. farmer hammer that home. so now he wants to be informed about everything. is that a good thing? could be but there is such a thing as spreading your self too thin too. just today i heard he yanked duke johnson out of practice over riding the OC.

The other side of the coin says that too many people view everything as positive and don't look at things realistically.

Could a former high school qb be overrating his own offensive knowledge? Could having a first time OC and QB coach be scary? Could moving away from your expertise and delving into something that you have no experience at in the NFL be dangerous?

Nah, it's all good say the "positive posters." "Nothing to worry about." "People who question some of these moves are simply negative and probably ignorant."

Yeah, right.

I like this post a lot Pit... You know why ? Because when we had what ?... 4 Ex HC's on this team ..what was that 2012 -13 ? can't remember.. I really thought all this coaching experience was going to put us in the running for a play-off birth... And instead what happens ?

I started to think bringing in young guys with new ideas would be the best thing for this team... I wasn't meaning every new season..But very much willing to give them ..what do most of you think # yrs ?

I like hearing all the discussions with the different assumptions and even some of the bickering is helpful and you learn some from it... if anything it opens your mind to accepting or realizing what lies a head for the season..Often I thought this is who or how it should be.. than some one brings up a point... and I'm like damn that's a really better way to go.

I just don't understand no matter who we put in as FO or Coaching staff we always seem to fail... Although we went 7-9 i have a hard time accepting the fact we were better...I think if we were really better... we would have made that play-off spot.. jmo

The season really just needs to get started so the many views from the different posters on here can start falling into place..

Honestly Pitt I tell myself I'm willing to give the staff time to jell... and really ... selfishly I don't want to.. but realizing I have to...Because it's only been a season...

I want to be in a way a homer... to be positive and hope for the best... then at times i just want to say... () and move on..

How much more slapping in the face and money out of my pocket going to the games can I take..And by the way... sitting with peen all season and tailgating with Columbus and every one else makes being a Browns fan the best thing in the world.

Pre-season sucks... some may love to see what other players have to offer or not have to offer.. Then we never know what the Coaching staff has to offer because the fear of it being gone at the season end is so realistic. So again here we are discussing.. if the coaches got the best out of the player..

I'm sorry guys... but for some reason ... this is a hard pre-season for me.... And I really appreciate every ones replies and your thoughts...Not just to me but to others whether or not we agree or not... whether you don't respect me or not... I just need all of you to help me get through this season...



Thank you !

ddubia's post was very balanced...

I'm starting to learn.... Thanks

Ray Farmer had all this money under the salary cap high draft picks
And the best he can do with skill positions is bring in Bowe Hartline Maule
And Ben Tate over 2 years.
West is headache and Crowell can only run the ball.
Oh and he landed the most coveted FA QB on the market
How many skill position players on the Browns could start for other AFC North teams?

What exactly is the problem with West ? Has anyone been able to actually pin point the problem ?

Montgomery called out both young backs to step up and be leaders.West seems to have this sense of entitlement to his position.

or a lack of giving a darn... that sucks hearing stuff like that.. if you want to be on a team sport than you must help every team member do their best...so you can win as a team..... smh

thanks for the info

I kinda wish they would have brought in Chris Johnson this season.

Chris Johnson could miss 1-2 weeks with hamstring injury

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13492583/chris-johnson-arizona-cardinals-hamstring-injury

Going back to the injury thread... I believe the cheer leaders are the only ones not pulling their Hammys

I'd like to help them try

lol I bet you would

As soon as I read the words "pull" and "hammy"...
...I knew where this was- um... 'headed.'

A pulled Ham Sammich?

Yup... here we go-

straight to here:

There are fans who are "just fans". They may know little about football and nothing about the behind the scenes of FO operations or coaching philosophies but they are fans nonetheless. They're on a team message board and take great pride in hearing positive things about the team and, in turn, post positive things. Their comments and statements may not be particularly helpful in discussions. But at the same time they're pretty much uncritical enthusiasm and excitement and are harmless.

There are other fans, probably most, who do know something about football and who do understand the inner workings of coaching and FO types who see the whole picture to varying degrees. They are able to point out the positive and negatives from a more educated and experienced viewpoint. Their comments and statements may be right or wrong or simply an opinion. Either way their posts are food for thought and can often garner good discussions.

Then there are fans who simply throw out negative comments on each issue with no real thought behind it but rather think it cute to do so. Their comments add nothing to discussions. They are simply negative and probably ignorant.

All right...which one of you is "Elpresador" on YouTube???? That is some hilarious stuff. Loooool

Believing that a journeyman QB can get it done.

Did he walk out on the practice field fast enough for you? Did he yell to much or not enough at practice? Did he shake it one to many times after he peed?

Duke Johnson will change your mind.

You make it sound like he was in disagreement with the OC and so he pulled rank on him.

Pettine said they had him on a play count. Why set a count if you're only going to ignore it. Johnson reached his count so he was done for the day.

Never let facts get in the way of a good story...

it's very clear in the presser from yesterday. Pettine had him on a count, he reached that count, at some point, after sitting for a while, Flip wanted to insert him and Pettine said he used his "Executive Powers" (or something like that) and said no because Duke had been sitting too long.

Nothing else to it. In fact, it sounds smart to me.

you can babble any crap you want to but the fact is flip wanted him out there and pettine yanked him.

"“He was on a count. The last stretch of practice, we didn’t use him. On the last play, Flip (offensive coordinator John DeFilippo) wanted to use him and I used executive veto power and pulled Duke out of the huddle because he had sat for a little too long. He was right at his number.”"

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...b8-901897a4e35b

You are making much to much out of it.

Seems premature to dis a new OC and system after a two pre games. Think Pett said it was vanilla for the OC to keep it under wraps as long as possible. Have seen some interesting back action and some misdirection and unusual corner blocking, just a few flashes. Are they effective or merely weird? Not sure. But they are a departure from what we have seen last year, and as wrinkles, I noticed them because they are different.

The notion that a franchise QB makes all issues go away is hard to swallow. It will make us better, but it isn't the result of a single player IMO. Not directed at anyone in particular. I am also waiting on the Pigskin Messiah to walk over Lake Erie and into the Dawg Pound. Film at 11!

But I am willing to risk it, because it is a necessary solution long term for us.

Fail to see anything wrong in that. Try again

True. For the sake of ONE play, no need to make this into something it's not...

oooh one entire play.... sounds like a large division in the coaching staff

Hmmm, with a good BBQ sauce...

where did i say there was? you and your buddy are trying to put words in my mouth. all because you dont like the way the facts sound. why is that anyway?

What facts? You implied that Pettine was a control freak and I don't think that's true.

So is like the sky dark Blue or Light Blue today ?

Its a darkish light blue...or maybe a lightish dark blue.

Still too early to tell what the biggest issue is with the offense is so far.

Franchise QB aside, I'm leaning towards the Oline and RB's lack of depth and time working together. The oline isn't pass protecting or run blocking very well. I'm hoping PS-G3 shows more promise on the offense line and at RB.

And you can spin it any way you want, but he was on a count and he reached it. Why make a plan for a player and then not carry it out?

I mean, for cryin' out loud, the quote you posted spelled it out for you. I have a feeling that the only part you chose to pay attention to was the, "I used executive veto power and pulled Duke out of the huddle", while completely ignoring the reason he gave before saying that.

You know, if you tried hard enough you can make a negative out of nearly everything... oh wait!... you already do.

Dude, there are negatives and then there is building mountains out of mole hills.

Sorry, late for the party. This ^^^ is the answer to the question/thread title.

So far he's thinking too slow, or at least did in the last game. Any real QB would be looking fine to great.

Looking forward to the next game & hopefully seeing Bowe & Duke added to the mix. I'll have to see a much quicker McCown before I go blaming Flip, O-Line & RBs. (Damn, I wish that nickname didn't make me immediately think of Weeden!)

You if you cant see it... then... well, its about par for the course.

It's best to forget weeden was ever a Brown, yes.

He was very Weedenisque last night for the 'Boys... brought back memories.

Oh yeah he was a great one!

I like this post. What follows is my opinion.

Since returning to the league, the Cleveland Browns franchise has defined the word "hapless." There are many reasons for this; high turnover in management and coaching, even ownership; poor drafting choices, mismatch between players and the constantly changing team approaches, etc. To me, the underlying problem is lack of continuity.

Trying to bring in top coaches, from HC on down, is a very hard sell. In any profession, there are jobs that help your resume, and jobs that don't, and coaching for Cleveland is generally perceived as the latter. In the first several years after Haslam bought the team, he went through 2-3 HC searches, and more searches for OC, DC, etc. He consistently watched the best candidates pass on the job offered. Being a man who built major company in a competitive industry from the ground up, he made the decision that if he can't attract the best, then concentrate on promising new talent hungry for a chance to prove themselves.

So we have a 2nd year GM, HC and DC, and a 1st year OC, and all of them in their respective positions for the first time in their careers. There is a learning curve, and mistakes are inevitable. There will be friction as the various personalities and roles gain definition. And as Pit points out, not everyone will pan out. The advantage, and what gives me hope, is that they are all learning and growing together. This has the potential to develop into something special...or not. Success won't be overnight, and there will be adjustments (for instance, Shanny wasn't a good fit.) It is unrealistic and counter productive to judge the process this early. If continuity is the biggest problem with this franchise (as I believe it is), then this process of building from the ground up has to be allowed to come to fruition. Anything else is continuing the same problem.

Oh yeah he was a great one!

Jesus H.

So no one is going to admit to being "Elpresador" hey? All right. Well at least admit to seeing his videos then.

This thread is exactly why coaches and players should pay no attention to the media and Internet.

Perfect response I think. Flip has never been an OC in the NFL so he has no record of tendencies to look at to form an opinion like this.

Seems a bit judgemental at this point.

Say this after say 6 or so games in the regular season and you would at least have something to hang your hat on.

I never heard of him. But went to see a video. Freakin' guy is out of his mind! I've watched Browns games with people like that around. Bitch and yell the whole game.

Funny stuff man!

I won't argue that, but man, there are so many more positive fans that are "probably ignorant" and "add nothing to the discussion" and reply to "each issue with no real thought" other than to gang-up on anyone who doesn't agree w/the majority.

I believe that your own perceptions on the current regime are clouding your views on how posters post.

Here, let's look at some of the comments we have read since the end of last season, shall we?

--I really believe Gilbert is our break-out player.

--It's different this time.

--Does anyone else think that for once we have guys who know what they are doing?

--McCown is really accurate.

--McCown will be a different back because of our great OL.

--We are like Seattle.

--We can win because we have a top 5 defense and a great ground game.

--Our WRs will be okay.

--We are not dysfunctional.

--Things are different this time.

Need I go on?

But it really is different this time - we have another OC

I have watched allot of his videos. Especially after a loss. He looses his mind.

what you saying flip did not want him out? pettine said differnt. and thats a fact. maybe i am not the one that can not read? maybe its you and the glasses?

you need to drag yourself down that rabbit hole... I have much more important things to worry about then one play in an entire practice... have fun with it though.

Let's be nice guys.....biggest problem is continuity, JMHO, Mack, Thomas, G experiment...and our WRs been out lots...and DBs....my vote is lack of continuity...GO Browns!!!

no tex you have to read everything. all started with this.



yea i said trust flip with the ?.

then i made a smart a...coment becaue i thought anyone with half a brain could follow what i was thinking.



then i expanded on my thoughts because some people are just to stupid to put 2 plus 2 together.



and then all every one said was about the i heard he yanked duke johnson out of practice over riding the OC. wich is a fact.

Johnson was on a pitch count, which is also a fact that was explained by Pettine before he tongue-in-cheek mentioned his "executive veto power".

But the only fact you saw was "executive veto power" which you turned into "yanked" and "over riding the OC" as if the HC over riding an OC in a practice session in favor of player saftey and sticking to the plan, (pitch count), is unheard of. Couple that with your previous query, "guess he doesnt trust flip?", and they add up to an insinuation that there may be trouble between the HC and the OC. A thought that can only be arrived at if you're twisting the facts in an effort to build a negative where there is none.

It's what you do.

No, and I'm certain you left out a plethora of similar comments/statements.

From my perspective, those positive comments, regardless how unfounded, are short and positive at the least. They come from a mindset which is excited, encouraged and always hopeful for their team which is easier to hear from a fan than the short, negative comments which are just as unfounded yet are seemingly deliberate and obstinate in both their brevity and intent to turn a non-issue into a bad thing.

If I were so inclined to name names, which I'm not, I could spit out at least a half-dozen posters who offer nothing else.

That guy is a certified nut!!. The best is when he flips out at the beeping sound in his car!!!! Loooooooooool

j/c

I read criticism against this offense some of it justified. Did anyone watch the Bengals and Bucs? I know it is preseason. Bengals are totally out of sync. Penalties and mental mistakes everywhere.

One thing I give kudos to Flip. Offense, at the very least, is organized and disciplined. It may fall apart come regular season. If Browns offense looked as disarray as Cincy, I have some serious reservations toward any success.

just a general reply;

Its preseason folks. The ravens and Bengals made our O look like the greatest show on Turf. Steelers Defense isnt scaring anyone. In this 3rd preseason game, you get a better idea of what you have. Should get at least a half of our starters, the coaches do a slim version of a game plan. (still vanilla but its more Buc specific).

I get what you are saying Vers... but by the same token, there are negative posters who post while adding nothing to the conversation... He sucks, we suck, they suck, that sucks, we're going to suck...

And I could come up with a list similar to yours such as..

- Mack's not that good anyway, we should let him walk.

- Haden isn't even in the top half of CBs

- Dansby is a downgrade from DQ

- Manziel is a lost cause who will never learn... (Yea, the jury is still out on this one. )

And some of the things on your list, specifically...


Still have not been proven false...

I think it's time to throw a few sprinkles on top.

No, it's not about fantasy football at all. He made a comment about how offense won't be putting up gaudy numbers. He did this by mentioning fantasy football. Then a few posters saw the word fantasy next to the word football, and went bananas.

I was hoping that once the real football started that this poop would stop. I was too optimistic.

Is everyone in accordance that Farmer could have done more with this offense in the offense?

Off season

Yes, but most other teams could have done more as well. This is not a Farmer issue, this is a "can't do everything in one off-season" issue. If we come out of the off-season, assuming Farmer is still around, with the lack of of playmakers we currently have I will be severely disappointed. There is also the Josh Gordon pipe dream. . .

you mean 2 offseasons right?