DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Biggest problem with the offense?

Upon a deeper look with the offense,this what I have concluded.

Flip and the existing talent are a not a good fit for each other.

Flip is a 1st year play caller. working with a QB who's been with more teams than the CFL has a total of
another QB who isn't quite ready to step in as a #1 and has a ways to go.
has a core of RBs in which neither has claimed the starting role.
a core of WR's who have good hands but no one WR commands a double team downfield.
a core of TEs who collectively aren't the Top 16 of the NFL.

now you go to the other side. You have a mesh mash of talent on offense working with a 1st year OC.

my point nether Flip or the pieces assembled don't compliment each other.
look at the other AFC North offenses..their talent and OCs compliment each other.

I just don't see a good marriage.

when was the last time the Browns had a OC that was really any good? Daboll was a favorite around here for whatever reason. Carthpn did everything with a crayon.
I think Shanhan had a real idea what he wanted.

This offense is gonna struggle badly. The QB hamstrings the OC and the OC hamstrings the offense.

I'm not sure what Flip's style is or what OC would match our talent on offense, but I'm pretty confident in one statement:

If we had a franchise QB most, if not all, of our offensive deficiencies would be hidden.


Our line would be dominant because teams couldn't stack the box or blitz like crazy, our RBs would have fewer tacklers to contend with, our WRs would benefit from accurate passes and a smart deliverer.

Basically, give us Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Luck, Ben, Manning, etc ... and we'd be considered Super Bowl contenders

How can one make this assessment after two preseason games where players are being rotated in and out, there is no scheming of the other team in likely any fashion, there's about as vanilla and base formations as can be and the list continues.

You don't even know how or really what Flip's offense is going to be, so IMO, a bit judgmental. There are a lot of shifts going on in practice, but we've not seen any really in these preseason games. We've not seen Flip's real offense yet.

Well said.

If the Browns offense came out and scored 14 pts against the Bills in its 1st 2 drives I wouldn't be hearing all these apologies for Flip and the offense.
I heard the same excuses under other Browns OC's every preseason.

go by what your eyes see,not blind optimism.

The biggest problem with the offense is the pre snap formations, the pre snap line up and all of it from the spacing between the offensive linemen to the placement of the tight end, even the skill players.

This has been a problem for fifteen FREAKING years. What it manifests into, is not just a lack of good pass protection, but no pass protection whatsoever.

First thing I'd do is rip those hash marks off the practice field, so the line could start lining up with varying distances between their shoulders. Mix up the gaps, stand wider apart,
It's called multiple sets, isn't it.

And maybe, just maybe, once in a while, the Qb wouldn't instantly check down to an almost pick 6 for a wideout to the sideline for a 0-2 yard gain with absolutely NO CHANCE for a first down,

Just because the D shows a blitz.

Can you explain what you mean by this THROW LONG?

I'm not being a jerk .... I'm curious because I'm not an X and O guy at all.

What do you mean by presnap formations, etc?

Agreed. Not to mention all the injuries we've had to our backs and receivers. To early to judge. Have to get healthy.

The problem is that we don't have NFL caliber skill position players or QB.

The patience that we must show to allow the time for the various factors to gel...

would Tim Couch have been successful with this current line, the WRs and the RBs?

Yes,I believe he would have. He had more talent than anyone we currently have.

YEP !! And yes, I think Couch would be successful - certainly more successful than McCown and Johnnie !

My In saw a preseason game.

The QB is Josh McCown.

Well, if the field is 53 yards wide, the amount of that space which the offense occupies with it's formation, from tackle to tackle, or tight end to tight end, is what I'm referring to. The 1997 Denver Broncos used one particular formation, in their Super Bowl, where in they neutralized the Packers safety's ability to blitz or tackle runningbacks, and this was noted during the commentary. I don't think the Browns ever line up that wide.
If you satellite view the Berea practice field, as of a few years ago, there appear hash marks, 5 wide, where in a Line could spot themselves to line up shoulder width apart, at a couple points on that field. Now if the line always lines up with the same width between them, which I feel is too narrow for some times, then it would be predictable.
Varying the width from tackle to tackle could at times give the defenses less predictable lanes with which to manifest that the Browns have suddenly no pocket, and no pass protection.

our main problem on offense is that no system stays in place long enough for it to be second nature and no QB lasts long enough to build any real chemistry with his teammates. It matters a lot when a QB and WR know mentally how the other likes to get out of a tough situation because everything happens so fast there is no real time to think. You have to read and react instantly and with no real chemistry that just doesn't happen quickly enough.

Okay I got ya ... so the spacing in between linemen can tipoff the defense in different ways ... yet you're saying the Browns never vary their spacing, which makes stuff obvious/easier on the D

I actually didn't know you could vary your spacing, but now that I think about it that's a good point

Thanks

Is complex always better?
The story with the Browns is always the same
New 1st yr OC comes in with all these ideas and ends up failing.
Never to have another OC job in the NFL again when he's replaced by another 1st yr OC.

Yeah, like Norv Turner and Rob Chudzinski!

And Brad Childress!

Childress is a OC for who now?
Chud is getting coffee and snacks for who..the Colts?

Chud the first time. Childress and Turner were not "new" first year coordinators.

Other former offensive coordinators:

Bruce Arians (what has he done?)
Jeff Davidson (later the Panthers offensive coordinator)
Brian Daboll (later the offensive coordinator for the Chiefs and the Dolphins)

Add them to Chud, Turner, Childress and you are way off.

The only coaches to leave the team and then not be a coordinator somewhere else are Maurice Carthon and Pete Carmichael.

But, yeah, keep making stuff up.

No QB + NO playmakers + BAD GM = FAILURE and starting over again every year.

what would be your realistic solution to ending the cycle of ineptitude?

Hire Gruden to be GM/Coach
Draft one of the "Franchise" QB's next year
Sign best WRs/RBs possible

It is not a coincidence that we keeping turning over coaches and have no QB. Get the QB, stability magically comes.

well that would be a start. proven coach, franchise QB, and the best WRs and RBs in the nfl.

We hired Shanny last year and I thought he was excellent. He wanted out of town and got a job right away.

Many will paint Shanny as some evil villain, but it really irks me that we lost such a good coordinator because our front office was so meddlesome.

I agree he was very good, but I don't think it was just the FO meddling. I think the building aspect of the situation was not for him. I think he is confident of what he can do, and wants a roster with talent.

I don't blame him, with a group of talented players, he could do some good. He has a bit of an ego, and I think he wants the headlines right now.

That being said, personally, I don't like him. He comes across. to me, as an arrogant baby. But, that's just me.

His competence has nothing to do with my feelings. He's going to be around for a long time with a lot of success. I just don't think he was a fit with a building franchise with a lot of growth needed. He wants it now and he wants it all.

I think that is the image that many are trying to paint, but I don't really believe that. I think he is very confident in his abilities and freaked out when the FO tried to tell the coaching staff which players to keep, release, and play.

I really don't think there was a problem between Shanny and Pet. Pet is simply doing the best he can to keep things rolling. I am almost positive he did NOT like the interference from the FO either, but he is smart enough to keep his mouth shut about it.

I disagree. Shanny took the Browns job because it was the last available. Philosophies set by Pettine and Farmer really don't show case Shanny's abilities. When he heard there was a chance in Atlanta, I think he did whatever it took to get out of Cleveland. I'm pretty sure the "text" card was one of the items played.

I like Shanny. Atlanta has more attributes fitting his style. Besides Ryan is a much better fit than either Hoyer or Manziel. I also think Manziel's immaturity didn't bring a vote of confidence. Shanny's goals is HC. It wasn't looking promising something good happening anytime soon.

Disagree w/what? You didn't address any of the points I made.

The main problem I see with the offense,is that they take the field. Other than that,they look pretty good.

I see a hell of a lot of this going on around here

I don't think Pettine and Shanny saw eye-to-eye. Why else does Pettine make it a priority understanding what the offense is doing this year? Supposedly he knows Flip. Yet he feels it is a must attending offensive meetings and study detail.

I have no proof. I think Shanny did his own thing. Pettine couldn't explain what Shanny was doing. It didn't make Pettine look good with his meetings with Ray. I'll bet there were decisions agreed upon by Ray and Pet. Those decisions weren't happening which led to a few "text" messages.

guess he doesnt trust flip?

Again, I think that is untrue. I do think some posters mentioned the possibility of it and that led to other posters believing it was true, but the evidence does not suggest that. In fact, in Shanny's 30 some point presentation to Haslam, he talked about the coaching staff as one and how they were upset w/the interference from the FO.