I was just reading thru the WR thread and it hit me that Charles and DeValve lined up as a fullback many times.

I was wondering would you guys think about signing either a FA or drafting a monster fullback. I think with the offense we run, and the backs we have, having a guy that can clear the way would be huge. They also could be helpful in the pass protection aspect. And if their hands are good, that's a bigger plus.

Not a TE to play fullback, but a bigger ass-busting fullback.

Forget a fullback. Orson does fine in that role and does other things as well.

As I have said for many years, if blocking is what you want, just put a reserve guard or DT back there. The Fridge wasn't a fullback, but he was a pretty good lead blocker when asked.

Just consider Orson Charles a fullback if that floats your boat.


Plus, the college game doesn't utilize a FB anymore. It's now about a big TE who can block and can run and catch.

I don't see it happening.

Freddie's offense is all about being able to do almost anything out of any formation. A FB would severely limit that ability.

Keep Orson.

He can block; and I think most people forget he was a TE in college. #godawgs #UGA

I agree with Peen. No need for a Conventional Fullback. Not with a RB like Nick Chubb. Orson Charles offers us more variety, as he can block as a FB and a TE.

Waste of a roster spot. Better to keep Orson Charles

I like what we have now. use an interior lineman for short goes if needed. Put a couple of 'em back there and pretend it's single wing. But we need more out of that position than the old lead blocker. Is Vickers available?

If you never get into any short yardage downs, then we don't need us no steenkink FB's.

Just move the chains if the refs will let ya.

He's a FA right? We'll need to lock him up. (bad choice of words, but you know what I meant)

I think I remember that you've been saying that there insn't a need for a FB for years. Am I right about that?

Charles was a decent to good blocking TE/FB from what I've gathered

1. Charles was very good in the Roll I would love DeValve to also get his reps as he has a little more pass catching skills.

2. This has become a passing game, you don't lose that much with Charles at 257 blocking, he was very good btw. And DeValve is very intelligent and gifted as well and is willing to block which is big in expectation.

3. But you gain so much more in pass catching ability and YAC, especially with Devalve in there who got his reps mostly after Charles went down with injury. For years especially in the red zone. Its been a practice of defenses to have man cover on all eligible WRs...except for the FB - So that works out better with an H-Back rather than a Snot Nose FB. If we ran the Ravens O maybe a necessity???

But we are going Spread most likely. And we definitely will run out of it. Charles had only 3 receptions but if memory serves me correct it was I believe for 1st downs.

DeValve though could be the key as he has the ability to block as he has worked on it. But he has much more speed and the ability for some serious damage in the pass catching dept.
Hew only played in 5 games on Offense, a lot more on ST.but had 5 catches and a TD, btw I saw him open a lot but Baker chose to go a bit deeper rather than the easy dump off.

I think if they develop some rapoire with each other, that could become a definite weapon from the FB positioning.

End of game with a lead, I think its important to bring in Charles who is a little bigger and a very good blocker. So that we could run with success while trying to run out the clock.

jmho

That would be a perfect way to get Corbett on the field more. Put him in at FB for short yardage.

[quote=DeputyDawg]That would be a perfect way to get Corbett on the field more. Put him in at FB for short yardage. [

Just make sure you let him know before you try to hand him the ball. I remember that going horribly wrong with a 3rd string TE once.

If there's no FB, then there's nobody to blow away. That said, if we can find Christian Okoye Jr who is 6'4 230 and can run a 4.6, why not let him run it. We need to utilize our skill players, at all positions including TE, instead of using them as blockers primarily.

Thanks for the replies. I agree with Charles being a good choice to fill the role. I also think DeValve could be a weapon.

Wasn't a suggestion, just kind of thinking out loud, and picturing a FB mashing the MLB and Chubb running free.

Thanks again.

It's okay, man. It was a football question and a football thread. Kudos to you.

You are correct. Peen has been talking about the FB position being outdated for years now. I also remember him talking about how the NFL would have to adapt to college QBs in this era, but he was one of the few voices on that one.

The judge wuz right.

It seemed like the team stuggled converting in yard to go situations. Maybe there are some statistics out there that can show if this is the case or not, but it sure seemed that way.

So I don't know if we need a FB, but it felt like we needed something.

I am glad I found this thread. I have been thinking for a couple of months now that I would love to see the team add a real fullback. I really like James Devlin from New England, and would like to see a guy like that here in Cleveland blocking for Chubb. Not sure how realistic it is now though given our current offense, and that fullback is kind of a dead position in college. I would be thrilled though if we draft one in one of the later rounds.

The key to todays fullback, is catching ability. If you get one with those skills, he can be very valuable. I thought DeValve could have been this guy, but his injuries have really set him back.

I imagine a play action situation where the fullback is leading, chips the LB and sits in the open spot. Just another option for Baker.

I don't know if it would fit with todays offenses, but there are teams that still use FBs, and they seem effective for them.

If you're going to use a FB, I prefer an actual FB, not a TE playing out of position. Guys like Terrelle Smith and Lawrence Vickers were like heat-seeking missiles while blocking for guys like Reuben Droughns and Jamal Lewis. They also had some receiving abilities but at 240+ lbs, their forte was blowing up LBs in the hole as lead blocker. They were also better in pass protection than Devalve, Fells, or Charles IMO.

I remember the Texans had the best running game in the NFL and utilized an H-Back rather than a FB.

I think we keep on mentioning how the passing game has dictated the need for pass catchers every where RB n even in this threat a pass catching FB. very few out there - rather have a TE like lets say Devalve excel in his blocking skills - its not rocket science stuff and technique is probably the easiest thing around to learn. Its of course vision that has to be experienced but going through a hole and turning correctly left or right to seal and hit a LB is not an ability that take years to learn..Charles has that ability already and I would rather see him catch the ball then the Best pass catching FB made.

We do lose the ability of handing off to them for short yardage but Chubb is freaking talented for that one yard.

Devalve cause he could be a stud for dump offs and in 3rd and short, Goal to go situations where we go play action...I trust Devalve more than any FB going to catch that pass and make it happen. In the red zone most defenses Disregard the FB in man coverage. Again I would prefer to see Devalve be ignored than any FB. And the only other option is because Devalve would have pass catching skills he will be assigned a Man Defender which puts ONE on ONE for many out there. Calloway, Landry, Njoku and Perriman come to mind. All one on one, a smart QB like Baker would eat that D up alive!

jmho

While I believe Devalve could be taught to be a better blocker, I don't believe he can ever have the burst out of his 3-pt stance or the explosion at the point of attack that a FB (who was probably a RB in high school) would have. IMO, most TEs are taller and more likely to be long striders who take longer to get to top speed than is required in a lead-blocking back. They also have a higher center of gravity which makes them more vulnerable to a bull-rushing DL or LB if they are kept back as pass protectors.

Dang,, you are right, he had been saying that for a lot of years... Forgot all about that..

I agree with this 100%. All one has to do is look at the typical body type of a FB and a TE to see how vastly different the two are. There's a reason for that.

Orson Charles - ~250lbs.... and Mayfield took fewer hits & sacks than any Browns QB of the last 20 years over the last seven games.

It's hard to argue against Charles' pass-blocking based solely on that.
Smith & Vickers were excellent FB's, but we can get more out of that spot on the field by utilizing an H-Back that can block as well as those guys, but is better at catching & running. We don't need them to ever carry the ball because we're loaded at RB.

And I think you hit on the key issue. The main function of a FB is as a lead blocker for your RB. Most FB's are shorter with a lower center of gravity to play that position than a TE.

But how much you would use a FB in your scheme would strongly dictate whether it would be wise to use a roster spot for a FB.

It's absolutely a trade-off.
Sticking with the examples of Vickers and Smith, both are 6' even. Orson Charles is 6' 3".
Pure FB's will be better blockers, but won't be quite as good running and catching as a TE - so, which aspect do you prioritize: Run Game or Pass Game?


Looking at how Kitchens operated and going off what I've heard of Monken's views on a balanced offense, I'd suspect we will lean toward roster choices that emphasize the Pass Game.

Say good-bye to the FB in Cleveland, give a hearty Welcome Back to the H-Back.

Anyone seen Aaron Shea, lately??

I agree w/you and Devalve hasn't been a good blocker in his career. And while I agree w/the notion that you can be taught to be a better blocker, I'm pretty sure some don't have the
"want to."

Devalve seems like a tweener... not quite a TE. Not quite a wideout. I think if someone developed a role for him he could be quite effective. I believe he has good hands and can do some nice things, but I think his days are numbered here.

I still really like Devalve. I think he was drafted to be a football player here and a hybrid who could fill in at TE HB or WR if necessary. I don't think we will have a need for him. I hope he remains... and I could be wrong about him, but I'm losing hope that he will be a contributor here. In the right place he could actually be a monster.

Canada?

New England

I love a good sense of humor.

Apparently... You're still here...

And I always will be.

I agree. Teaching somebody to block is pretty basic to football. I am sure DeValve has been taught, by good coaches.

To me it's like catching a ball. If you aren't good at it by this point in your career, you probably never will.

I get his point. I like DeValve as well and think he can be really good if placed in a featured role.

IMO, Devalve is a finesse/receiving/non-blocking type TE. He's not a FB or an H-Back.

Many of us just ignore him anyway...

Devalve was a QB in high school and a WR at Princeton. He was used more like a WR when he first arrived. He's still transitioning to TE in the pros. He may get there, he may not. He was bulking up last year and worked on his blocking. He was also injured the start of the season and fell behind. I still think of him as a tweener and there's a team out there who could play to his strengths. He's not super fast, but he's no slouch. And he makes good plays/catches with the football. I'm not sure what our plans would be with him moving forward. I believe Charles is a RFA, and Fells is still under contract and played well. Drafting any type of TE like TJ Hockenson would probably spell the end of Devalve. I don't see us drafting a TE at 17, however, but Hockenson is probably going to be a beast. Perhaps there would be a team out there willing to trade a pick for Seth if it came to that. He could be very useful for the right team.

Good points a counter to some.

1. Devalve has improved and progressed with blocking with each season.
2. H-Backs don't get into 3 point stances too much...they also tend to go into motion and be off set more than a FB.
3. But in lead blocker top speed. Devlin who is considered the best (and not available) his 10 yard breakdown had him at 1.75. Seth Devalve meanwhile was at 1.54. A pretty big difference in a 10 yard breakdown.
4. Straight In line blocking blowing out a LB I do agree with you a seasoned snot nose FB is useful.
5. To be sincere with you..blocking inside and out is all about Angles not straight line blocking. To get to a hole and pick right or left on the oncoming LB is the most important virtue, at that point its about sealing from a good angle to give that RB the sliver.

It can be done and with not too much difficulty. Right now Orson Charles is better than most FB I have seen. I'm just looking to upgrade on him. The pass catching skills provided by Devalve is much greater and if he can get close to those blocking skills needed he can make the position into one of impact. Better than single RB with spread formation look. Devalve can be spread out slot or wide then come in motion to set up for a run block or play action pass... that was my point. as a straight up FB I think Charles is pretty darn good. I think he is a FA we will see if we sign him or not???

jmho

I don't see it. As of now he's what, the third or fourth choice on the team at TE? He will never be featured above a talented TE. Let's look at the Browns alone. We drafted Njoku. If Devlave had the ability to be a feature type player, why was Njoku drafted and played ahead of him?

Devlave is a stop gap TE at best. He's the kind of player you use until you can find an upgrade at he position. We found an upgrade in blocking with Charles and a better actual offensive weapon in Njoku.

IMO- Devalve will be lucky to have a roster spot here in the fall.

I don't doubt he will have long odds to make the team. Injuries have hurt him.

I still think if a team uses him correctly, he can be a good player in the league. He has good hands and finds ways to get open.

Maybe we're just speaking in different terms here thus causing some confusion.

I think Devalve can be a contributor and play the role of a second or third TE in the league. I don't doubt that for a second. My contention is that he won't be that "impact type TE" that a team will depend on as their main weapon at the position. Unless it's on a temporary, band aid type situation until they can upgrade the position.

No. No confusion. I think he could be a stud in the right system.

We have both stated our opinions, so cool, we can leave it at that. No big deal.

He's no Jason Witten, but I think he could be a Gary Barnidge.

Jason Witten on the football field

OR

Jason Witten on MNF?

I have always liked Devalve and hope he finally puts it all together this year ...

Jason Witten was a Lousy Football player, average at best.

He was made even worse by the fact Joe Buck, IIRC, always refered to him as "future hall of famer",

It's a disgrace to the hall of fame, and football purism, to hear a call like that after watching this guy make a pedestrian catch.

I think Devalve could easily be a 1000 yard TE. He won't though, as we don't play him enough, or give him enough targets.

During his time with us, when he's on the field, he produces. He always has. It's unfortunate he dealt with a injury last year.

Jason Witten was an excellent TE. He was not "lousy."

I think some folks overrate Devalve in my opinion.

ditto

Devalve is similar to Steve Heiden in being steady and reliable but not great by any measure. JMHO

Jason Witten, 11 Pro Bowls, 2 times All Pro, 1152 rec for 12,448 yards (10.8 avg rec), 68 TDs.

Ozzie Newsome (HOF), 3 Pro Bowls, 1 time All Pro, 662 rec for 7980 yards (12.1 avg rec), 47 TDs.

Witten is a Hall of Famer.

It would appear more people underrate Devalve.

that just about covers it! smh

That often happens the minute a player puts on a Browns uniform. We all saw what happened. Devlave was on the roster and the powers that be saw an obvious need to upgrade. Thus Njoku was drafted. Yet somehow other NFL teams would see it differently? Our fans certainly do.

Most including myself just wish him to prosper in our system cause for the simple fact he is a good pass catcher, a good route runner (made himself good) is very intelligent. Has shown to do anything to benefit himself and the team in a NEW POSITION for him as he was a WR in college.

Keeping in mind he has put on muscle to be 6'3" 245 and run around a 4.5 40.

Over rate? yeah I know us stupid homers. I don't see anyone thinking of him as a Pro Bowler at least not yet.

What I, can't speak for others, what I do see is a kid who has PROGRESSED..every season with last season being a downward thing due to Training camp and Preseason injuries. But there he was playing hard on special teams...doing anything asked of him.

He could be cut this year or he probably will have this as his make or break season if making our final roster. I do see a major benefit to a role as H-Back instead of a FB if that is over rating him. Then I am not quite sure you know what over rating is...lol

Its not a big time glory position...anything to knock a Homer down.

Btw, drafting Njoku I know carrying two TEs is very unusual in the NFL.

Hopefully he gets the opportunity for Dorsey to experience his talents. As mentioned he was injured all preseason.

How is it being the smartest guy in the room. Our fans certainly aren't.

You see it as trying to knock a homer down. I would expect no less. If you read the thread some seemed to believe he was the type of TE that could carry the #1 TE position and be a 1000 yard TE. Even you aren't suggesting that.

Context is everything.

For those who believe the above, yes, I think the uniform gets in the way of their objectivity.

So you go on with your personal vendetta as per usual. I expect no less from you. But don't pull your usual BS later and claimed I started it with you.

I find it odd you know so much about him considering he was with us for 3 seasons.

1. was spent adjusting to the TE position and transitioning from IVY League to NFL.

2. We had a terrible QB and we also had drafted a highly young gifted TE.

3. We had a new OC and GM he spent the entire training camp and Preseason without a rep and without pads on just minor working out getting back into playing shape...so he barely got any reps.

How can you possibly make a career evaluation. I was very explicit on why I liked him. I saw progress from him.

As stated he could possibly be cut as Dorsey might evaluate him from last season not able to get reps.

He could be a weapon especially if he improves his run blocking I did see him getting the concept of seal blocking last season.

I think he can become proficient in blocking and in this thread I'm saying I would rather see him at FB ergo H-back than a FB.

That is all. Personal vendetta...no just wish you would talk football but then you must understand it...so I expect no less from you. what BS...you did just start it with me. I talked football you talked personal. your game is lame.

Its my fault...lol personal vendetta good one. I only wish you would talk more football then just regurgitate what Vers states...lol you're funny.

DeValve flashed as arookie ... he also had 2 or 3 BIG drops in not all that many targets ...

He showed a lot of POTENTIAL in his brief stints as a rookie ... unfortunately since then its been one injury after another ... then by the time he finally got healthy last year we had a pretty good thing going on O and he hardly ever saw the filed and when he did he was barely a blip on the radar when it came to targets ... I think he had 2 or 3 .. am i mistaken? ...

Dude flashed as a rookie and literally nothing since then ... he’ll get his shot in TC ... i think on THISTEAM the odds are stacked against him making the team .. he’s gonna have to SHOW to make it .. i think after Njoku were gonna ne looking for blocking TE’s that will be asked to do very little in the pass game ... thats not Seth;s game ...

I do believe there is a spot on an NFL roster for him and he can be productive ... a decent recieving TE type numbers in the RIGHT SITUATION .. just more than likely not here ..

And you pretty much summed up my feelings on it. He has a place on an NFL roster for sure. But he's not that 1000 yard receiver type or a top tier TE.

My comments were directed towards those who claimed otherwise.

I think Fells is a valuable guy and I hope we keep him. In fact, I think he is far more important to the team than Devalve.

I like him too. He's a great blocker, but is also good enough to get open when needed and catch the ball.

Yep, good blocker and his size and BB background make him an asset in the red zone.

I heard an interview with Fells on CBD the other day; he's an engaging guy. He didn't play football in college, but he did play basketball, and went on to play professional basketball for 5 years in Argentina, Mexico, France, Finland, and Belgium after college. He's 6-7, 270, so probably a power forward. His brother, NFL TE Daniel Fells, encouraged him to try football when hoops didn't work out for him, and after a tryout as a DE with Seattle, they asked him to run some basic patterns and immediately signed him as a TE. Gotta root for a story like that.

Fells had some big plays for the Browns last year. He was a really pleasant surprise.

Like your comment? Or lack of comment should I say. So i suppose you think Devalve is a 1000 yard, top tier TE too.

lmao

Right. Because this is what people are saying.

You may wish to read the thread. It was said. Which is what I responded to. Talking football? Devalve's stats indicate he's not on that level. Reading is fundamental.

How many TE did have 1000+ yards last year?

Yep. I overlooked that ONE person who said 1000 yds in this thread amongst the many that posted about him and his play. None of your posts responded to that poster.

But yeah, let's respond to different posters and use one person's opinion as a claim of multiple people's perspective.....

....'Cause that's smart.

You'll have to ask HotByougturk. He's the one who said Devalve could be a 1000 yard TE. I'm the guy who disagrees with that.

The point works that way as well. There just aren't many 1000 yard TE in the NFL.

No there aren't. And those that are come from a very short list of extremely gifted athletes at the position. Which is exactly why I took issue with the comment.