We have added players in free agency and the draft. We have players returning who either opted out or were injured. We have guys we have brought in to have a look. We have players starting their second season. And we have guys who will be fighting to either make the team or stay on the roster.

Who will be the player that we are not counting on who will have a great camp and become a factor in the season ahead?

I am really big on JOK. But, I don't consider him a surprise.

I am going to pick Takk McKinley.

He is a former first rounder. The thing with him is I believe is maturity and opportunity.

He has talent. I don't think he really applied himself with the Falcons. When he showed up in Berea. He was all business. Like an ugly make-over. He went from being surly and above it all to humbled.

I think he sees that this is now all in his court to make the most of a good opportunity.

He will get chances. Clowney will be the main guy opposite Myles. But Takk will be the next off the bench for both right and left DE. Plus in third and long they can move Clowney inside and go all in on the rush with three DE's.

I was impressed by the way he has handled himself since coming here.

If he balls out. He could get a long term deal. Security is a huge motivator.

There are plenty of guys to choose from. We have lots of guys who could be camp stories.

McKinley is a decent pick to be an impact player. I also have a feeling that Phillips is going to be much improved. He’s got great speed and seemed to get better last year after injury.

Both Phillips and Elliott will get good looks.

So that is also a good pick. We have alot who could surprise.

Yeah, Elliott as well

Malik McDowell.

Schwartz

He has an interesting story so sure I am curious about him.

Two things that were consistent in how Schwartz has been described was speed and intelligence.

That can a long way.

Kiondre Thomas Cb Kansas State,

Curtis Weaver DE, Miami dolphins

Brian Allen, CB, out of obscurity

Robert Jackson Cb, out of improving on the 2020 season

Sheldrick Redwine, S, out of

Damion Square, Dt, out of the Chargers

Tre Harbison Rb, UDFA from Charlotte, I think will look good as a pure runner.

Connor Davis, TE, With the most to prove, I wouldn't be surprised if he overachieves.

Emmanuel Rugumba, Cb I wouldn't be surprised if he came out of nowhere.

Derrick Willies, WR, I wouldn't be surprised if his former chemistry with Baker from prior pre-seasons didn't re-kindle and he looks special again.

Romeo McKnight, DE I don't know about a guy from 1 double A, but whenever he plays 10 snaps, if he's in the Qb's face 6 times, who knows how that may go.

Elijah Lee, Linebacker?
Elijah Benton, Safety? (Guys named Elijah?, ya never know?)

D'Ernest Johnson, Can you imagine, if he improved on last year, what that would look like, can you imagine if we came out of Camp saying D'Ernest Johnson looks like he's playing so well, he may need to take some time from one of the top 2 Hunt or Chubb, and it's not that Hunt or Chubb fell off in any way;
Oh man that would be a surprise, what would that look like, ( 5 or 6 breakaway 80 yard runs for Td's in pre-season? Whoa that would be a surprise.

Camp Surprise?
Cody Parkey makes all of his kicks between 30-39 yards.

Browns have a kicking competition.

Marvin Wilson DT, UDFA jumps ahead of Andrew Billings on the depth chart?

Malick Jackson as an Edge Rusher, ... Malick Jackson as the #1 D-Line presence out of everyone not named Myles Garrett.

Malick McDowell as making the team and being a front 4 situational starter.

Tommy Togiai, being overlooked?

I didn't think that McKnight had played 10 NFL snaps in his career.

I hope Njoku is a pleasant camp surprise

McKnight is a rookie UDFA out of, somewhere, a 1 double A school I think, I'm referring to his college snaps, and surely he didn't get a sack 6 out of 10 plays, it just seems like he did,

And that! could be fun to watch!

J/C

I'm just going to take a contrarian approach on this and select players basically because no one is talking about them.

Redwine, if the Secondary overall is improved as I expect then maybe we will see what Redwine can be, I hope for the best.

Andy Janovich, the Fullback was unspectacular last season. In Minnesota Stefanski got a lot from this position and I at least, expected more than we saw from Andy last year.

Damion Square: he just seems solid and reliable. Who knows?

Porter Gustin seems to be the forgotten man on the DL. He had some nice moments last season and was able to stay healthy. I could see him having a nice year as he actually got to focus on getting better this offseason rather than trying to get back.

Another guy who could add to the Browns is Drew Forbes.

No he will not start. But he could be a front line replacement on the depth chart.

Forbes opted out last year.

He is 6'5" and 308. He is only 24.

He has played guard but may be able to handle tackle.

Before last year he was injured but the Browns liked his potential.

Callahan has been a huge part of the success the Browns have had. He maybe able to really get a lot from Forbes.

I guess in the end, we could name all the 2nd year players and get one of them right.

For me, I'm looking at which of the depth guys are going to take/fill Hubbard's spot of 1st substitute and 6th lineman on KS's heavy formations. It's an overlooked but important position on our team.

At this time last year, it was Forbes that everyone was looking to fill that Right Guard vacancy. That is now completely owned by Wyatt Teller, who wasn't even realistically in the conversation this time last year, but Forbes definitely has an opportunity to create a role for himself.





This is a VERY important role... and other than Hubbard, I don't even really know who is going to be in this battle. Hopefully this is one the beat writers keep an eye on. The other five spots are pretty well locked in unless a young guy can unseat Bitonio or Tretter, but I don't expect to see that, at all.

j/c

I also look forward to seeing Michael Dunn. In a short sample size he was pretty good

That is why I mentioned Forbes.

Hubbard will be challenged.

Is Hubbard even going to be ready? He tore ligaments in his knee, and his kneecap was dislocated. That has to be a long term recovery, and he was injured late in December.

I could see him being ready by August, or very close to it.

Either way, he has an uphill battle and our swing tackle will almost certainly be someone new this season. I'd expect that he may be an injury settlement and release.

That would be my guess, too. He may not be back with us

I agree and hope to see a somewhat increased role for him this year. I like the guy. Maybe the second year in this offense will allow for a little bit of that. But, it could be the way we're going to use TEs will affect that.

I think a good chunk of this is no fault of Janovich or Stefanski, really, but more just a factor of seeing how this offense - with these players - runs best. Is it best with Janovich lead blocking, or do our RB's do best in sets with TEs to give the constant threat of a pass to the TE? The answer may literally vary from week to week depending on who we are playing and what personnel we expect them to line up with.

Another less organized teams roster had 6 quarterbacks on it.(Jax)

The Browns, have built a roster of 90 with pretty much could be divided into two parts, that could win 7 games a piece.
I did,

Tell me which group would win more games independently and which one has the biggest position weakness.

I will go with DPJ. I like what I saw last year and receivers can take a little time to put it together.

So I split the Roster in two, first thing was to opposite side Baker and Myles because things like this simply must be done top to bottom to ensure equal strength to the two sides.

left side

The Right side.

The left side O-Line + Left side Front 7/5 DL.


The Right Side OL plus Right side front 7/5 DL


The Left Sides Linebackers and Secondary


The right Side Linebackers and Secodary


Browns Roster, split into two, both sides pretty equal, and could win 7 Games imo, No real train wreck positions I think.

He will be, but as a team who can win this year, I think we will keep Hubbard and not trust a rookie or unproven guy in that role.

For that reason I could see us keeping at least 1 more offensive line player on the final roster then might be expected.

I know I have picked on fullbacks over the years, so I might as well be consistent here; I would rather keep Hubbard AND whoever else it might be we might decide to fill the role over Janovich.

Janovich probably isn't going to win you any games or lose you any games. Not keeping Hubbard or whoever else might not win you any games, but it COULD lose you games.

I don't care what coach says about liking a fullback, but a fullback doesn't have much impact on our O. The O line does.

That is a good one.

Often the biggest leap for player development comes between the first and second year.

DPJ was impressive last year. Late round pick with size and speed.

By all reports he is a smart hard worker. He has a chance to take over the three slot. If he balls out this year he could move up the depth chart next year as well.

Lots of good stuff happening. Lots of new talent/returning talent to keep our eyes on, but I'm going with Delpit. Sounds like his rehab has been going well, and seems to be on track for a full return during camp. Excited to see him out there. Our secondary could be elite.

Like JOK many had Delpit as a first round talent.

He was a highly regarded college player.

An Achillies injury is a major injury. How players have recovered is mixed.

Hopefully he comes back as the player he was before the injury.

If so. He will be a big part of the team going forward.

Early reports have him moving well, running fast, and cutting without issue. Hoping that means he's well on the road to 100%.

(JOK is my X-factor pick on D)

With the nature of his injury, I'm going to treat any contribution from Delpit as gravy. He'd be the exception to a pretty well-established rule (regarding how long it takes to come back from an Achilles rupture), and so any sort of expectation on him at this point is overdoing it, IMO.

edit: wrong thread, moving to X-factor thread

Would any of these be a surprise?

Jordan Elliott does not make the roster.

The Browns place 2 young players with slight injuries on IR at seasons start.

3. There is a Receiver that will suit up game 1 against the Chiefs that is not yet on the Browns roster.

Not really in my opinion,
Only about as surprising as if the Browns would decide to trade up a short amount in a draft round to get ahead of some rivals for a player that is falling,
and also as surprising as the Browns would chose to trade down in a draft round to acquire a mid round pick the following year.

I think the surprising thing would be if everyone on Opening Day against KC is already on the team.

(Predictability will be the downfall, eventually, of the competitiveness of the analytics.)

IMO, not a chance.

He really brings so little to the table imo but I've been blind before.

I suppose the only chance (walking back my "not a chance" comment) is if he gets a significant injury and the Browns waive him with an injury designation. If healthy, I think he makes the squad easily.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/..._16748_35122817

Three Surprising roster cuts the Browns could make in 2021.

1. Mack Wilson
2. D'Ernest Johnson
3. Rashard Higgins

also mentions the shake out of Curtis Weaver vs. Porter Gustin vs. Joe Jackson
also mentions the battle of JoJo Natson and Jamarcus Bradley vs. Anthony Schwartz and Demetric Felton.

Key article point. Khaderal Hodge is (allegedly) better at contested catches than Rashard,, Hollywood Higgins?
Ahem!
What the heck are they watching!

Well I can see fans losing it if they cut Higgins. He's become a fan favorite the last few years because he has shown up on game day a handful of times. It will be similar to trading Duke.

I can see the first two, but not Higgins. But it was called "shocking" cuts for a reason.

Mike Drop...lol

The problem we've been hoping for since 2000.

Yup. This is one of the few times that a single stat actually says quite a bit without requiring additional context.


Quite simply: when given opportunities, he produces at a high level.

Thats some nice company

IMO, the competition at lots of spots will be FIERCE. Just because you were drafted doesn't guarantee a spot on the roster. Dbacks and Dline, lots of options AND none a chumps. The FSU undrafted guy gets big money for undrafted. He could make the squad. And WRs, WOW, we be cutting some good players. How this all plays out will be interesting. Go Browns!!!!

Good yards/target means he's catching the ball well AND making plays. This might be a captain obvious statement, but just trying to emphasize

same thing I have.

I expect Wilson to be cut. He is not as good as his tweets are. He doesn't play special teams and he was not good his rookie year and he was worse last year.

Taki I think will also has a great chance to be cut.
Walker JOK and Fields are for sure keepers and we also have Malcolm Smith, Lee, and Phillips are likely to stay

that's 7


Johnson could be a surprise cut. I don't think so though.
Higgs I hope we don't cut

J/C

I really can’t see us cutting Higgins or Elliott. I could see us cutting Wilson or Natson

I think Natson being gone is already a foregone conclusion. I think he'd have to jump pretty big to be more than just a camp body.

for some of you, this may be a surprise



I've been saying this for 2 years.

Yup. Because of you and a few others, I think we all adopted 4-2-5 a long, long time ago around these parts.

I just hope we actually do it. I could really see line up in a 4-1-6 | 5-1-5 | or 5-6.

We have so much talent. If we stay healthy, we could have the most dangerous defense in the league.

Personally, I'd love to see a 5-1-5 on obvious passing situions with some combo of Garrett//Billings/Clowney/McKinley/Elliot/JOK rushing (possibly JOK rushing next to Garrett or Clowney)

Walker/JOK/Johnson in the middle

Ward/Newsome/Williams
Johson/Delpit/HIll

I think Joe Woods has to be drooling over the pieces he has. He just has to not be afraid to put the best players on the field and build schemes for it. We also should move players like Smith/Taki/Phillips on and off the field as needed based on obvious situations.

There is no way they always have 4 or more DL on the field.

Always is a large amount of time, so probably not. Almost always probably fits. We are bound to play a prevent every now and then.

I think it really can be amorphous depending on who we play. When we play KC, I could see us going with dime or even quarter packages. I imagine guys like Malcom Smith who are better in coverage get more snaps. Troy Hill would see a lot of time in that game, too to cover the slot.

Contrast that with playing a team like Tennessee (I know we're not playing them this year). I think you'd probably see a more traditional 4-3, with guys like Walker getting more snaps. Might even add JOK in as a safety so it's like a 4-3.5, haha.

We definitely have the pieces parts to put any look on the field that we need to. We can definitely match up with any personnel group from any offense.

"it's a passing league" and all that, but I'm hoping we're always keeping an eye on Baltimore, and have an answer for their running attack.

I think that right there is why Takitaki will make the 53.

Oh for sure. I think the Chargers found the blueprint two years ago for how you stop the Ravens. I don't think there's any real secret. I think it's just whether or not you have the personnel and the disciplined, savvy mindset in the players to pull it off. We definitely did not have either last year.

I hope I don't eat these words, but I also think that is why the Ravens have a very slim chance to the AFC Championship or win a Super Bowl. Unless they get lucky, they're going to come across a team who is capable of effectively pulling off that scheme in the playoffs.

What will be interesting to me is how the Ravens will ultimately deal with having to pay LJ. They will have to sacrifice some pieces on that defense. I suppose it will turn into how well they hit on their draft picks that follow. In fairness to them, they are historically pretty good at doing that.

You don't honestly think we have forgotten about that, do you?

I didn't think so.

I think we are taking steps to neutralize, or at least minimize the threat Jackson brings to their run game. If we can do that, I don't think their running game is any better than anybody elses.

Do I honestly think we'll show up to play Balt and be like "uh oh, they run the ball too"? No.

But I do think people get swept up in the 'it's a passing game' shtick. We've clearly spent a lot of time and effort on the roster on our backend, and our defensive scheme seems to favor putting smaller bodies out on the field.

It's interesting. There are some teams out there that take advantage of the NFL trend of going to a smaller body defense. Tennessee is a prime example with the way they run Henry. Hell, we are, too.

With Baltimore, however, I think you can stop their run with the smaller body approach. The Chargers did it with 3 safeties. Guard the middle, rush 4, and have those four maintain gap integrity. Leave a spy in. Try to get Jackson to throw to the sidelines.

Oh, and score first.

For the record, they simply did what we had done to stop them.

I think the biggest danger here now is outsmarting ourselves, creating and dropping in to more looks than we may need to because we can instead of what we need.

I doubt this will be the case though because its pretty clear how disciplined we are top to bottom.

No doubt you can overthink things. To show a new look just because you haven't doesn't make much sense.

I agree about not being surprised if Taki is cut. I have seen few people talking about not retaining Taki and my memory may be bad or even selective, but I remember a lot of missed tackles, in the open field especially. He also appeared somewhat slow.

Don't get me wrong, I like Taki and maybe I am not aware of his football intellect and knowledge of the defense, so coaches may find him valuable in spite of my "expert observations".

As a Browns fan I normally support all the players so I just want the best players and am not used to good players possibly being cut because of the team's depth of talent.

We played the Ravens the game prior and had success, despite ultimately losing the game. I almost forgot about that one.

We knew from the word go we were going to run a 4-2-5 but this is the first year we have the proper personnel to do so. So we will actually see it in action. Cannot wait to see it working and then by game 8 see it working like clockwork!

Going to be fun being a Browns fan!

I could be wrong but I don't think people should sell Greedy short.

Newsome was our first pick in the draft. By all accounts he should be a very good corner.

However, Greedy can play. He is fast 4.37 forty. He is long at 6'2". He is smooth. Greedy has quick feet. His back up and transition (hip flip) is quick and smooth. He has all the skills to be a great corner.

The injury had no impact on his legs. All that got him to the NFL is intack. The nerve damage has had time to heal. It is the type of injury that you are either ready or not.

After sitting out all last year Greedy has had the opportunity to look close and learn. He knows the system. Newsome will be stiff competition but Greedy should be fully prepared to handle it.

Woods defense is all about speed in space. We will use three and sometimes four corners. We will use two and sometimes 3 or four safety's.

I expect Greedy to play a role as well as Newsome.

You can never have enough good corners.

Between Ward, Greedy, and Newsome, can one of them play inside? I know Greedy probably can't.

I expect Greedy to play a role, but I don't have high expectations. He struggled when he was last on the field, and it has been forever and a day since then.

Mitchell played far better last year than Greedy did the last time he played, so he needs to make a pretty big jump.


Hill plays inside.

" Almost always probably fits."

In Short, I'm about to make the argument that each and every player in the 10+ man group of the Browns front DL (iol) DE seems more like a 3-4 player than a 4-3 player,
and for that matter, the two who most resemble a 4-3 player would be Sheldon Richardson and Ogunjobi both gone.

Yes there are guys with flexibility but except for Goaline and 4th and short situations.

We're just splitting hairs because, if a 6'3 260 pound player as or similar to Takk McKinley lines up outside of the tight end and rushes the Qb on one play, and drops into coverage on the next play or provides run support from an outside to inside angle

If it walks like a duck? If they all want to walk like a 3-4 OLB, and have the size of a 3-4 OLB, and the team wants to line them all up in a 4 man line or we can call them 4-3 DL linemen,
fine just win baby. that's the best 4-3 3-4 3-3-5 end combination I've seen in a while.

Greedy never played for Woods.

He played for Steve Wilks who favored a 4-3 base with lots of zone.

Greedy came into the league as press man corner. I do not think he was a great fit for Wilks.

He wasn't bad or good in 2019. He was ok.

He has had time to study. Greedy is a hard worker. He knows he has to compete. And I don't think he will melt.

I hope both Newsome and Greedy are great. Camp battle should be good.

That's all well and good, but the fact still remains that the times he has seen the field thus far, he has struggled and my memory is telling me that this included camp of last year, prior to his injury, which was under Joe Woods.

He absolutely can overcome, but let's not pretend he is more than he is. He's a risk that, at this point, is less proven than Newsome.

Not sure I see it that way.

Newsome is not proven. It matters not where you were drafted. You have to prove yourself in the NFL.

Greedy has played in the NFL.

It will be a camp battle. If Newsome wins. Then he earned it.

Joe Woods did an interview recently where he mentioned that Newsome displayed the ability to play inside during OTAs...and that that development was essentially a pleasant surprise.

I know we have Hill and other designated slot DBs, but my understanding is that a defense that has more DBs on the field benefits greatly when you have flexibility in where you can deploy pieces in your secondary.

It all comes down to how serious he has been taking his comeback. If he is in the best conditioning of his life then I think hie will leave impact at his position. But if he comes in OK shape then he will simple provide competition for a position that will be manned by Newsomes and he will take a back seat and be the good back up!

jmho

In the end you want competition.

May the best man play.

However, as the season goes on depth will always come into play.

Important position to have depth.

Last night the second Bengal game and the second Raven game was on.

Our offense returns with Odell and experience gained.

The defensive upgrades will be how the Browns take the next step. Way to many breakdowns last year on defense.

Not like missed assignments just poor players.

We should be way better this year.

Sendejo was the one lining up the DBs, and from what I have read was pretty good at it. When he was not on the field they struggled. The only problem was, that even though he was a smart player, he was not a good player. Also, one must take into account the continuous injuries they had in the defensive backfield.

Sendejo's age both made his experience valuable, and his decline in skills vulnerable. The classic double edged sword. I said it when Berry signed JJ3, that move won the off-season for the Browns. The other signings and the draft picks were gravy. JJ3 is the key.

People always harp about Baker's "surrounding talent" last year but never mention the impact of having a terrible defense. LJ has benefited his entire career having an elite/borderline elite defense. What happens to his game when they find themselves down more often and playing from behind?

I love LJ and think he has a great personality, but I'm not completely sold on his long-term success. He's amazing now, but his complete reliance on his legs will probably end up hurting him in the long run.

Completely agree.