https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/10/11/jon-gruden-homophobic-emails-las-vegas-raiders/

Or he quit .... one or the other ....

Jon Gruden resigning as Raiders coach after more leaked emails reveal homophobic language - CBSSports.com
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jon-g...age-per-report/

Jon Gruden is out as the Raiders' head coach, and it's by his own doing. NFL Media reports that Gruden has informed his staff he is resigning from his position in the wake of leaked emails in which he repeatedly used insensitive language.

Already under investigation by the NFL for a 2011 email in which he used a racial trope to criticize NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith, Gruden admitted Friday that he also used profane language to describe NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. According to The New York Times, however, Gruden's questionable conduct extended far beyond those comments, with Ken Belson and Katherine Rosman reporting Monday that the 58-year-old "casually and frequently unleashed misogynistic and homophobic language" to denigrate NFL peers from 2010 all the way to 2018, when he rejoined the Raiders.

CBS Sports NFL Insider Jason La Canfora has confirmed the contents of emails and Gruden's resignation obtained by the Times, which were sent by the NFL to the Raiders for review. Gruden's initial comments regarding Smith, which first surfaced in a Wall Street Journal report and stemmed from a separate workplace investigation into Washington Football Team, are just one piece of a bigger issue at hand. The league was "waiting on the Raiders to take action," per La Canfora, and was prepared to "step in" if Las Vegas did not address the situation beyond public denouncement of Gruden's emails.

Among Gruden's uncovered emails, which were sent to former Washington Football Team president Bruce Allen, are messages criticizing the emergence of women as NFL referees, as well as profane or frustrated reactions to former Rams draft pick Michael Sam's entry to the NFL as an openly gay player, and league-wide tolerance of former 49ers safety Eric Reid protesting racism during the playing of the national anthem.

The emails, which span from 2010 until 2018, when the coach signed a 10-year deal with Las Vegas after years as a "Monday Night Football" analyst, include Gruden calling Goodell a "f-----" and "clueless anti-football p----," criticizing Goodell for allegedly pressuring then-Rams coach Jeff Fisher to draft "queers," and messages to Allen that featured photos of topless Washington Football Team cheerleaders.

More than 650,000 emails were reviewed by NFL executives as part of the workplace investigation in Washington, per The Times. Gruden, who did not immediately respond to a Times request for comment, has said publicly only that he doesn't remember seeing the messages about Smith, but that his language "went too far" and didn't hide the fact he doesn't have "a blade of racism."

not surprising... he may have survived one bad email with a sincere apology.... after the rest of those emails there was no way he'd be able to stay a HC in the NFL.... don't think he's going to be hired as an analyst again either

Jon Gruden has released the following statement: "I have resigned as Head Coach of the Las Vegas Raiders. I love the Raiders and do not want to be a distraction. Thank you to all the players, coaches, staff, and fans of Raider Nation. I’m sorry, I never meant to hurt anyone."

https://twitter.com/RyanWardNFL/status/1447742160564985856

Urban Meyer puts his finger in a bootyhole

Jon Gruden — hold my beer

White people are not safe anywhere in America.

Not surprising. Gruden is a meathead. Game passed him by as it was.

I just lost my company for even reading this!

You have to switch to incognito mode when reading THROW LONG’s posts.

Welcome to the club, rookie.

We have such a weak fragile society. But he said bad words!

I love that your post was typed in a pink font.

Not surprising at this point

Interesting that coming from you.

You want to add to that.

I guess troll vomit comes up pink?

Obviously reality has passed you by. Let's recap shall we. How many people do you think you can offend and still remain solvent in the business world?

Let's list them shall we?

Blacks
Gays
Women

Since it's obvious you spell America, Murica, try using your brain for a second. The capitalist business model dictates you don't piZZ off a large portion of America. You don't bring consistent negative pressure and spotlight on your corporation and brand. That's exactly what Gruden did.

Stop blaming our country for the fact Gruden is a jack aZZ. Accountability doesn't mean that much to many people anymore.

What ever happened to you are entitled to your opinion. Free speech has went out the window with these snowflakes.

No one told him he can’t have or voice his opinion. Man you people don’t understand what freedom of speech means in the Constitution.

He has his opinions. He gave voice to those opinions. No one stopped him.
His employer doesn’t agree with his opinions and is choosing to distance themselves from such rhetoric.
He’s not promised employment under the Constitution.

Go spew forth a bunch of racist/misogynist/homophonic garbage at your place of employment and see what happens.

You are entitled to your opinion. And corporations are entitled to consider how your opinion impacts their bottom line.

It's funny how some people try to label being a decent human being as being a "snowflake" when really all it is, is making excuses for aZZholes.

You're free to say anything you want as long as you understand there may be consequences for the things you say. There is nothing in the constitution about protecting anyone's right to be an aZZhole.

I think Gruden was on the cusp of pretty much getting a complete pass on the DeMaurice Smith email. A single email can be excused with a sincere apology and even a half-hearted explanation. It also helped his case that it was a decade ago.

But many emails over a much longer period of time paints a very different picture. It speaks more to his overall character and beliefs. And what those emails have said is not pretty. Dude was forwarding nudes to team presidents, talking all racist and gay-bashing (isn't Nassib on the Raiders right now?).

You saying those ARE the people you are allowed to offend?

You are correct. But he didn't spew forth anything. He sent a private email to another person.

Has he done anything to suggest that he is - in fact - racist/misogynist/homophonic? Actions...not words in a private email.

Before heads explode: I'm not condoning what he said. What happened to accepting an apology? The incident(s) were from many years ago...correct?

Make heads explode: We have a nation that now has its "leaders" calling people racist when they have no idea what said person(s) think or do. It's become quite fashionable.

A nation was upended over a white cop killing a black man while making an arrest...then racist racist racist...yet there has still not been any investigation or evidence that what happened to Floyd was racially-motivated. Not a sliver.

Putting your head back together: I'm not saying the Floyd incident wasn't racially-motivated. I'm saying that we have no idea at this point. Only a white cop and a black man. If we can't figure out the motivation in that incident, how can we pin the fashionable names on a HC who sent stupid emails 7 years ago? How many people of color has he worked with since then? He coaches the only openly-gay player in the league. Maybe a suspension and investigation were in order first.

The issue is those emails became public. They're not private anymore.

He's a private citizen...and a jack donkey at that. I can't stand the guy. However, shared publicly or not...he sent those emails in private...not via Twitter or a message board...or Faceplant.

I don't have a care in the world about Gruden...I have very much care in the world on the direction this cancel-culture is taking...and the complete assumptions that are spewed as fact before any investigation takes place.

j/c:

The NFLPA is urging the NFL to release the rest of the emails in the Washington Football Team investigation after Jon Gruden's resignation.
https://twitter.com/usatodaynfl/status/1447984729358176256

So you don't believe that a corporation has the right to consider what one of their employees does, that creates a huge negative impact on their corporate image should have the right to act accordingly? Let's face it, Gruden didn't resign out of the goodness of his heart. And what is there really to investigate? Gruden hasn't denied any of it.

And you're really not the only one who has concerns. I'll explain what concerns me. What concerns me is that we now live in a society where anyone who expects others to be a decent human being, a responsible person, someone who isn't a downright nasty individual, they get what some consider a nasty label themselves. I'm not saying that's always the case. There are certainly cases which I think fit the description, but this isn't one of them.

Using terms like "cancel culture", "political correctness" and "snowflake" are turning out to be nothing more than excuses for terrible behavior and pardoning nasty behavior in cases such as this. This is actually a perfect example of it. Most of us, and I'm sure you would be included, were raised to be better people than the way Gruden conducted himself.

But now all we seem to get are excuses for it and people labeling others who only expect people conduct themselves as a decent human being. That's what concerns me.

j/c

The Q in LGBT(Q) is queer(can also mean questioning but queer was first). So, how can it be derogatory if that is in fact what they want to be called?

My guess, lots of other emails were sent by Gruden that were not released and the NFL pressured him into resigning by releasing the "mild" emails first.

I can't actually post the word in question. but it starts with an F if that helps you.

I actually thought the F word was a swear word and the uproar was about pressuring Jeff Fisher to draft queers. Which, no one should be pressured to do/not do anything based on sexuality alone.

So, that makes a lot more sense now if that was what he said.

I don't believe it was the same email you are referring to but he used the word in other emails. I have seen no evidence that the league was trying to pressure Fisher into drafting anyone so I have no idea if that part was even true. But once you hear what was in an email where he talks about Godell I think you'll see clearly why he will never have a job in the NFL again.

This is what so many do not get, or choose not to get. Getting fired is not a violation of your rights. There is no right to employment.

Employers have requirements as to conduct and behavior. One can choose not to adhere to them, but will lose their job. It is a free choice.

makes sense. I'll have to try and find the email.

Does anyone really want someone leading their organization when that person is evidently willing to prejudge people based on their appearance, gender, sexual orientation, etc.? How many people will be omitted because of these prejudices?

On top of that is the PR nightmare and the lack of respect with players.

Everyone has prejudices and no one is perfect. If you are honest with yourself, I bet you have had many in your lifetime.

Sadly, it is human nature...

This is a true statement. I also don’t get paid $10 million per year to run a billion dollar organization that requires hiring and firing people.

Also, having prejudices and being racist, homophobic, and sexist are different. I have prejudices against food that smells weird but I’m not getting fired from for it.

This. He was pretty much clear from that first email that circulated before. Yesterday evening, shortly before I got on the ice for a hockey game, word came out about more (a LOT more) emails spanning several years using the same language except in addition to racist statements there were also the other -ists as well. After I got off the ice, he had resigned.

It’s easy: don’t say or write douche-y things, even if you believe them. If you act like a douchebag, don’t whine when it comes back to bite you.

This is not “cancel culture” this is called don’t be a douchebag.

Gruden certainly did wrong and got caught, regardless of the time that had passed. I'm just curious how he got caught. Anyone know?

Someone in the league had it out for him. My guess is they were trying to distract from any questions about the WFT investigation. Employees sharing topless pictures of cheerleaders is way worse than anything Gruden did and no one is talking about it.

I assume you have seen the Super Bowl entertainment for 22. Snoop dogg and two other names. Read the lyrics to their music and tell it is it the height of hypocrisy to entertain these misogynistic woman insulting “musicians” and give them the nfl stamp of approval while disassociating from gruden. Two faced phonies

The NFL is not hiring Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg to run one of their billion dollar franchises. They are hiring them to perform songs.

The are hiring them to represent them on their biggest stage. Do you really not see the hypocrisy there?

I do not. It is two totally different things.

What does that mean?

Does it mean we have the right to be rude jackasses?

Does that mean we can emulate those that would lie to us and it would be OK?

What's it mean?

So apparently you are ok with degrading women as hoes, blasting the n word frequently and using disparaging gay references. Good to know where your values lie.

“Kids, this is what’s known as false equivalence. That’ll be your lesson for the day.”

PP is about 7 forums down the dial. This is supposed to be PF.

No, it isn't.

Snoop really only sings about smoking weed, which is fine by me.

Jc

Question for the board:

Wasn’t the emails getting leaked a product of the criminal probe into the Washington football team? These emails got leaked due to Bruce Allen being employed there at the time of these emails?

Seems like there’s gonna be something much bigger dropping soon.

As far as Gruden goes, y’all know what he said is wrong. As Portland said; people trying to talk about the constitution don’t understand how it works.

Also, this goes way beyond saying bigoted nonsense. He’s the HC of a football team, in a league where the majority of players are black, and he has a gay player on the team.

The nfl is a private business, and his right to say what he wants doesn’t protect him from the consequences of the business he works for. Last time I checked, that was the very argument a lot of you on this very board made when it came to kaepernick: NFL policy and conduct.

And guess what, he’s out the league cause teams shunned him out.

But all of a sudden, the same people are now defending gruden for…. ?

All I ever ask on this board: what’s the standard?

If you had a black boss, and you and the other employees found out that he calls you guys all kinds of crackers and other bigoted insults behind your back, you honestly think you’ll be cool still looking at him as a leader?

Every player on that team would always wonder what gruden says about them if they make a bad play. Nassib would now wonder whether or not his HC is calling him a gay slur every time he missed a tackle.

Would any of you on this board honestly say you would play for somebody like that, regardless of who he/she is and what they look like?

Strange.

There's no defending him.... I 100% with everything you said.... of course there's free speech and he can say what he wants but that doesn't mean he's free of consequences...

his emails included racist and homophobic verbiage and he also bashed the head of the company you're working for (Roger).... there's no surprise he was let go...

I'm anxious to see what else comes out of this investigation... the details I've seen regarding the WTF cheerleaders is sickening.....

Pretty certain I never defended Gruden. Or Urban, for that matter. (different topic, I know, but I'd be surprised if Meyer lasts the season)

I don't think it's a "standard on this board" thing. I think we're going through an era in society where everybody feels some silly need to be galvanized to some point of view and pick sides, when most of these issues have plenty of middle ground.

Example: reading through my FB feed, post after post either talking about him like he's some scum of the earth murderer or some victim... he's neither.

People use this incident as a springboard to talk about the ridiculousness of "cancel culture" because "Gruden" is what all the talking heads are flooding the news cycle with.

Pick sides / scream in each other's faces / rinse / repeat

We've been doing this crap over nearly every "issue" since the advent of social media.

It doesn't take much to peel back a layer and understand that Gruden's bs has nothing to do with cancel culture. It would be different if it was one email, one subject of his idiocy, one example that he could shake off and say "I was an a-hole, that's not how I feel", etc, etc...

This was years of emails disparaging many walks of life, individually and collectively.

I could give an f about Jon Gruden. More than anything, I'm shocked at how stupid he is.

But there is a bigger picture here... And this is where people of color, gays, women, any group that is a subject of this latest situation are trying to make their voices heard above the "screaming in faces". If this is going on with Gruden on a bunch of other "good ole boys" in the NFL, how far does it go? It's not just the seven years of emails sent... it's the seven years of emails received, laughed at, responded to.

Meanwhile the NFL constantly makes excuses for why POC can't get upper-tier administrative jobs in it's league. Yet they'll be the first in line to roll out a new banner or slogan about how they're trying so hard.

Wash / rinse / repeat.

Without pics, this post is worthless.

to be clear: i dont ask whats the standard on this board, im asking the board whats the standard of our society?

at some point - and i know you agree with this - we have to practice what we preach. there's too many people at every level of our country who demand others live up to a standard that they won't even live up to.

the NFL actually represents everything good about america, and everything bad. we got white, black, latinos, women, LBGT all up and down the league.

and then we got guys who keep breaking the law, cant stay on a team due to selfish reasons, and once again, the good ole boy system where people aren't upset or remorseful of what they said; they're just upset they got caught.

its like the dude who goes 20 over the speed limit, and acts like its the cops fault he got pulled over.

im trying my hardest to make sure this stays in pure football and not the dungeon that is PP. thats why im trying hard to keep this about football.

but i cant even lie. as a minority, i wasnt surprised about some of the racial slurs. what bothered me was the stuff about women and the cheerleader photos getting passed around.

because if that was my daughters being talked about/photos spread in that group, the FBI would have to start a whole new criminal investigation.

A man should not have to bow to another man because of the color of his skin.

We have plenty of men on this forum making excuses for misbehavior when its crime against women. Or, even crime against children. (that RB whipping his son bloody)

Its always been and always will be an old boys club.

So it's ok for white people to take a last place in line because they aren't "people of color" The Rooney Rule in the NFL is racist and it's 7 years old.
Until you start standing up against the absolute idiocy of giving people privelages because of the color of their skin, no one should take any of your points seriously.

Well, I like to think that society is comprised by mostly good people. People that have a strong moral compass and know the difference between right and wrong.

Unfortunately, we've become a society that is comprised of individuals that are always in search of confirmation for their beliefs before they speak. Mostly because speaking is now typing, and while communication may not be nameless, it is mostly faceless. 90% of any arguing you read in social media comes from the keyboards of people that would never say those things to someone else's face.

The sad part is that people have lost their ability to think for themselves... not actually lost, but willingly given it away... because they seek consensus among their peers before they even speak. So while they may feel a certain way, they won't voice their opinion if it's not part of "consensus". Eventually, for many, consensus becomes a herd that actually drives and forms their thoughts and opinions... many times based on false information or a false view of how the majority that aligns with their belief systems really feels.

So the people in the middle of every issue (which is, sadly, usually the majority) say nothing at all, while the extremes "duke it out" for all to see.

I guess what I'm saying is that there is no longer a "standard of society" as much is there is an illusion of a standard. We act like media is the "pulse" when it is anything but. The vast majority sit on their hands and say nothing while we judge "society" on the extremes.

That is what the standard is! You can't mention anyone that is on his team as if it makes a difference! It you want to be anti-racist, anti-sexist, then it doesn't matter if any level of racial (identity), or sexuality (preference identity) make up of the players on the team exists whatsoever.
This sort of thing happened(s), except it's not verbal it's in your face near fist-fights for many years, and there's no recourse because nobody gives a rip. (technically the "words" "slurs" were never used but the message was-is loud and clear in the doubly toxic environment. And, we just have to deal with it. That's reality.
Ya! Some of us have no choice. It's reality.

Last place in line? Whites can't get jobs in the NFL?? You're off your rocker. How about giving others a place in line, that's a more apt description of sports leagues and how they treat POC.

The Rooney Rule isn't racist... it's stupid. It makes a complete mockery of what it is supposed to do. It fits right in with my example of banners and slogans they trot out that do nothing to solve the problem.

Privileges lol. How 'bout a fair shake?

Truth told, I couldn't care less if you or others take me seriously. Most know I'm fair and balanced. I call it like I see it with little regard for what others think. Take it however you want it, I'll keep dishing it out at will.

You understand the Rooney rule puts white people last.
Do you support putting people last because of the color of their skin.
I don't! I think everybody should have a fair shot.

I agree, this is horrible news for white people! Black men managed to steal 2 of 32 HC jobs from the disadvantaged white coach! One black coach, of which, was hired nearly a decade and half ago.

You want more evidence of white men being pushed to the back of the bus? In 2021 alone, only 6 of 7 of the new HC hires were white. The other was Lebanese. Not fair!

On a realistic note, David Culley seems like a Chris Palmer-type hire. "Paid his dues," now pay him to eat poo in a zero-win situation and then fire him when time is right. Golden parachute.

The numbers don't change what the rule actually is.

Couldn't agree more! Hustle the minority candidate through the initial interview process and make the white, future HC squirm an extra day or two before he's ultimately hired. Gross!

Anything except just hire a coach and not have race play into it.

True, but there is a point that can't just be brushed aside.

Personally, I don't care about lyrics or e-mails. They are just words. If you don't like them, don't buy the CD's. If you don't like the words from a coach, don't play for the guy. Pretty simple.

When I say don't play for the guy I don't mean for the players to take the hit and sit out or quit. Gruden was smart enough he was going to lose the team, so he quit. End of problem. If he didn't he would have been terminated shortly after since it was a resign under fire type deal anyway. I am sure the owner would be able to invoke morality clauses or whatever to keep from paying him the next 7 years or whatever was left on the contract, but that takes time and mucks it up for everybody.

Make it as clean a split as possible for everybody.

I's optics, marketing and damage limitation. We won't know the full story (which was actually about a massive investigation into the WFT and Dan Synder) .... they won't reveal or release anything that would expose (probably) how rampant this is.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3238...m-investigation

"It is truly outrageous that after the NFL's 10-month investigation involving hundreds of witnesses and 650,000 documents related to the longtime culture of harassment and abuse at the Washington Football Team, the only person to be held accountable and lose their job is the coach of the Las Vegas Raiders," lawyers Lisa Banks and Debra Katz said in a statement. "If the NFL felt it appropriate to release these offensive emails from Jon Gruden, which it obtained during its investigation into the Washington Football Team, it must also release the findings related to the actual target of that investigation. Our clients and the public at large deserve transparency and accountability. If not, the NFL and [commissioner] Roger Goodell must explain why they appear intent on protecting the Washington Football Team and owner Dan Snyder at all costs."

It's this sort of manipulation and lack of transparency that makes me think that possibly Refs and the entire NFL "entertainment business" (which is legally how the NFL defines itself) is run with an agenda and certain aspects are fixed and crocked as could be.

After all that has been reviewed, no one currently inside the WFT, or anywhere in the NFL other than Gruden, has faced any accusations?

That appears to be the case. And the investigation took place because of Dan and the WFT having a toxic work environment ... who doesn't believe that's true and that somewhere there is evidence! LOL

What I'm curious about is that emails are typically not just one person sending something and the other person not responding, obviously. There usually is some type of exchange. I'd be interested to see what the exchanges were and how this unfolds with other people or figures.

I agree, no man should bow to another man regardless of his color.

But what the hell does that have to do with what Graffz said..

Yes, this Gruden stuff came out of the WFT investigation into their workplace. There BETTER be a whole bunch more that comes out of this! Don't try to tell me that an investigation focused on workplace abuses at the football team, the only thing that comes out of it is a bunch of Gruden (ESPN analyst) emails? I don't buy that for a second. If it does happen, then Gruden would be a victim, of sorts. He'd be the sacrificial lamb for the good ol' boys club.

As to your second point that I left in the quotes above... IMO this Gruden saga had 2 very distinct parts. The first part was from the 1 email. IMO, he was pretty much off the hook for that. He said his apology, it was 1 email a decade ago and easily explained away. He had Tony Dungy and the other black dude on the SNF halftime show going to bat for him HARD. That was the first part. The second part was when there were more emails (a LOT more), and they were way worse in nature and offensive to a whole swath of different people over a period of time. What that meant was that this was no longer a case of a single stupid email, but a pattern of behavior that fits someone that has no business representing an NFL team.

I agree. I am no fan of Gruden by any means and am not really surprised, but when you start holding things said 10 years ago it is a little suspect. It is also troubling that what he says or said is the target and not actions he has or is taking against various groups. I don't know, there may be some of those as well, but if not, as ugly as some comments may be or seem, it is a pretty dark and slippery road when you start holding peoples opinion and or views against them. To me that is as much a discrimination as anything else. Not to slant this over to another board, but it is close to if we started taking political prisoners.

JMO

What could be interesting is if they get emails of similar magnitude from Snyder. Out of my own ignorance, what type of ramifications would the league have for an actual owner, and a bull-headed one at that?

I never said a corporation doesn't have the right to fire an employee...for whatever reason...and I'm not commenting in this thread because I think Gruden was unjustly fired.

My point on investigating incidents/words is much less about Gruden being a j-ass and more about the way "people" jump to conclusions and search desperately for something to be offended-by.

Did he send the emails to someone in a group that he disparaged? Did he ever discriminate against someone in that group? Does that make it ok? The answer to those three questions is no...of course. But why would someone in those groups give a care what Gruden privately emailed to one of his buddies?

Photos of topless cheerleaders? Who took off their tops? Did they pose for the pictures? If my daughter did such a thing on her own volition, my ire would first be focused on HER. Are the photos from a lockerrom? Perhaps the circumstances should be known before we label the villain.

I have no need to respond to the remainder of your post because we are so-much in agreement on the gist of what you are saying. My angle would be the opposite of yours, but the end point would still be the same.

I've said this a couple times, but I think it's a key part of how the Gruden saga ended up.

The 1 email was no big deal. He was basically already forgiven for that. The realization that there were far more, and worse emails over a long period of time meant that it wasn't a case of 1 dumb email or a misunderstanding, but that it was an indication of the type of person he was. As a HC (and a high profile one at that), he's the face of the franchise.

According to the NFL on Sirius, it was a number of emails over 7 years. I hope they're looking into the recipients of those emails....there has to be a reason Gruden felt comfortable enough to send them.

I will say that you can nit pick certain aspects of you like. The problem is these are habits that endured over a number of years. They were sent on his work email account, not his private email account.

Any way you slice it, making excuses for his behavior by using "yeah buts" or, "but I'd look into" is still on some level an attempt to to minimize or blame others for his long standing actions.

At no time is using your work email a "private" thing. You're using tools provided to you by your employer. They are open season for anyone involved in your employment to see and review or turn over to anyone they see fit.

Among the many dumb aspects of these emails is that it all could have been avoided if Gruden had just emailed Allen’s private email instead of his work email.

I agree 100%.. Just remember, just because someone received those emails doesn't automatically make them guilty of anything. I've received emails over the years that had content I didn't agree with. I refused to respond.

Gruden sent them, lots of them, over a long period of time. He hasn't changed his mind set.

I'm glad he got his ass fired.

The first rule of email is that there are work accounts and personal accounts. You don't send anything that you want to keep private to a work account. It is that simple.

Gruden failed the most basic test, and suffered the consequences. A bit unfair, yes, but it is what you have to do.

I do wonder about all the other information collected and reviewed.

I'm not so sure what's a "bit unfair" about it.

Awww, are you portland and the other snowflakes offended. You guys offend me all the time. You should be fired.

Let's see. Gruden was not part of the NFL, employed by ESPN at the time.

Let's see. Who else have they found dirt on that has come to light?

Let's see. How long ago were those emails?

It has nothing to do with being offended. It's about not wanting a tire-fire of a human being to be a face of your franchise.

That’s because you truly are a snowflake.

Racist, homophobic, misogynistic language used in an abusive manner or tone towards another person should be offensive. The fact you seem to be okay with it says a lot about you and how your parents brought you up.
I’m not surprised.

Awe, you just think a corporation has to keep an employee who is a nasty human being. That if they don't it's not fair. There goes that snowflake thing you always carry on about. For the party of personal responsibility, you don't expect to have any.

Gruden and Dooty both grew up drinking the water in Sandusky. Lots of lead pipes there, just like Flint. My guess.

It is...it's abhorrent...but Gruden didn't do what I bolded above.

I feel dirty thinking that someone would infer that I am defending the guy. I'm not.

So what does that have to do with a corporation not wishing to be affiliated with him? I could understand your point if it were one or two isolated incidents, but it was a pattern of conduct over seven years that we know of.

Can you explain to me how that has anything to do with Gruden? Does any of that change his conduct? If you're eluding to the possibility that others may have done similar things which has not been shown or reported, I can certainly see how that's not right and should be corrected. But in no way does that excuse Gruden's behavior.

It was a pattern of conduct over a seven year period. He wasn't some high school or college kid when this happened. Kids do stupid things. I actually understand the point when people reach back to people's youth and try to say that's indicative of who they are as mature adults. I disagree when people try and do that. That's certainly not the case here.

He didn’t do it to their faces. Correct. But he did use that type of language when directly referring to certain people in his emails.

He most certainly did. Including Goodell. Not a good sign for a HC in the NFL. And it was very nasty.

jc

well, i wonder who the raiders plan on getting as a new HC. i hope its not some token pick, however i think Byron Leftwich has a legit shot at being a HC someday.

I get it. I am not defending Gruden.

The fact is I don't do what he did. It was a dumb thing to do. You have to assume any email that is sent to a work e mail address will be read by someone other than the recipient.

Although I don't want to make this political, as it is not the proper forum, The fact is it did not apply to a certain presidential candidate who dismissed similar bad behavior as "locker room" talk.

There is inconsistency in our society and we have to accept that.

The NFL investigates toxic workplace allegations against the Washington Football Team and Gruden of the Oakland Raiders is the first victim.

15 yard penalty on Goodell for "illegal use of press"..

Your definition of conduct themself as a decent human being becomes more and more across the line of, "BOW DOWN there is a knighted special person coming down the street, avert your gaze from His Highness, you peasants, you must show correct celebration of their identity." Or face dem! Con-se-quences! with every passing week.

Can't "conduct themself" in this context just mean don't send repeated emails over a series of time, which convey homophobic, misogynistic and racial slurs from your professional work email account?

I was thinking about this as well Swish....

I hope they don't go the "token" route as well but unfortunately it might be seen that way by many but one man who has been mentioned ALOT in the past searches who I think would do a great job is: Eric Bieniemy He already knows the division well and would come to a team that already has a good quarterback with some legit weapons.

I don't know about a token - I think it's a sacrifice and a deflection. It seems they are trying to prevent anything else coming out which is total BS.

LOL That's the funniest thing.. People like you who are afraid of everything calling others snowflakes... Yikes

Nobody is out to get you....

While I'm skeptical on how only Gruden stuff has come out of the investigation, on its own the punishment to Gruden fits.

Honestly, if a CEO or anyone below him exhibited this sort of behavior, they'd be tossed out on their butt. Especially as the company they worked for got larger. Is that not the case for a person who's face is all over the TV all the time? The guy worked for Disney at the time... is his getting fired really something we're arguing right now?

Some people are...some are not...some aren't seeing the difference.

There is a lot more to unpack than what's on the surface...and none of it has to do with his being fired...at least IMO.

my thing right now is what is the end game?

what gruden said was wrong and so the firing was inevitable.

what i have a problem with is that its starting to look like he was just the scape goat. the sacrificial lamb. im way more interested in the actual investigation going on with the WFT, but this is starting to look like a cover up. and the coach with a insane contract with no playoff appearances in god knows how long was the easiest to throw under the bus.

but overall, you know who's loving this right now? Urban meyer lololol

The NFL said they are not going to release the WFT investigation records. Which means they are just going to slowly leak out stuff because that’s what the NFL does.

People everyday, everywhere work for people who don't have a high opinion of them. Sometimes its bad enough its actionable i.e. you can file complaints, sometimes its bad enough you go elsewhere, sometimes your situation means you have to suck it up, and sometimes you simply have enough emotional fortitude and it doesn't bother you.

Gruden's behind the scenes stuff finally caught up with him. That's 100% on him.

What's the standard? Eh, I'd say its about 10 years at the moment.

What I find funny is all this celebrating of his firing as if some great moral victory was achieved. Some even appear to be personally sharing in that achievement which is really weird.

There's not a single Dawg here that can rightfully claim any level of moral superiority or righteousness when it comes to the NFL right? During the Goodell years alone think of all the dirt bags who have gotten off easy? We still tune in. Hell, last year we found out that the League engaged in race norming as a policy. We all still tune in.

Why?

Because we don't tune in on Sundays for a damn sermon on how to live a moral life. We tune in because we love the game of football. We love watchin it at the highest level even when our team is the worst for 2 decades. That's probably the same reason a guy who apparently isn't fond of black people or gay people made a career coaching and commenting in the League. At the end of the day, he still had a guy like Carl and a bunch of dudes of a different skin color on the field representing their coach and the team.

Gruden got his comeuppance and that's that. Anyone trying to make more of it just engaging in virtue signaling and come this Sunday (Well, tonight I guess technically) everyone will be tuning in at kickoff, the same hypocrite at their core Gruden was.

hey i agree.

but bro, this clown did this over the course of 7-8 years through the WORK email.

he was begging to get busted at this point.

name of the game is dont get caught.

One is being held accountable for his actions. The other was not. There was not a corporation or boss involved that had the option to fire him.



Does the order matter? I mean the investigation is ongoing. How this got leaked is something I have no way of knowing. What I do know is that I have zero evidence that the league had anything to do with the leak. Are you suggesting that a team or the league should deal with issues before the investigation is complete unless they are leaked?

I'm willing to let the investigation and subsequent consequences play out before I jump to the conclusion that this is some type of cover up or conspiracy to take the focus away from the Washington football team.

I also have seen zero evidence that Goodell had anything to do with any of this including Gruden's "resignation". Each team is its own corporation and the combined league is a way of making group decisions for all corporations in the NFL and the brand itself.

Leaders and those in charge are expected to maintain a certain standard. Obviously Mark Davis felt that standard was not met. Corporations have a public image to maintain. I think anyone who was surprised that this kind of thing goes on in the coaching and ownership ranks in the NFL are only fooling themselves. It is what it is. What surprises me more than anything is how so much of the public is making excuses for this type of behavior from someone in charge of coaching an entire NFL team.

I highly doubt anyone cares about the order of people getting in trouble. I think the assumption is that Gruden was the sacrificial lamb so that people at WFT (up to the owner) are kept safe. It's as assumption and we don't know how it'll play out, but I don't blame anyone for making it.

I'm not do much blaming anyone for making it. I'm simply asking if they have any actual evidence to base it on other than their own suspicions. I've seen far more of that going on in our society than I care to deal with. Feelings aren't much to base accusations on.

Its crazy what people will do when they are so entitled and have no fear of being held accountable.

Just for the sake of discussion, if it was from his personal email and they were leaked, would or should the outcome be different?

At least Gruden was good at his job. . .

https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/1448686054475771916?s=21

i dont know the answer to that question. if it was his personal email that got hacked or something, i would understand the argument that he shouldnt be fired for that.

however, i think it just delays the inevitable simply because you can explain it away to the media, but the players wont play for you anymore. they wont buy into anything he has to say. and for that, it just would've lingered until the bye week, where he would then resign anyway.

I'll be curious to see how the team responds, both on the field and to the media. This could have a devastating effect. I think I read somewhere that Nassib took a personal day after the news came out.

"Gruden shipped a fifth-round pick to the Bills for quarterback AJ McCarron"

Comparatively speaking that's not all that bad....

I'm white and I'm safe. If you're mentioning white guys in high profile jobs need to have a brain and NOT type, speak, preferably think they have the power to judge others....think again. Their is one judge and it ain't Gruden....Go Browns!!!

Well, I think some people are being contrary for the sake of being contrary. And others...?

I think some of that argument is about whether or not, short of any evidence Gruden was denying anyone of any fair opportunity independent of what anyone knew about the emails, does it matter what he thinks personally?

If it doesn't matter, then you are left with whether or not forcing a guy out of such a job for essentially a workplace policy violation is proportional.

But then, those questions end up being irrelevant because as you and Swish point out, its out there and now the organization ahs to make a decision on whether or not it wants to absorb the hit. Even if it were a personal email its hard to sympathize with that kind of mess.

#JudgeJudy

I kinda get what people are saying regarding personal email. He might not have gotten caught if he sent from his personal account to their personal account.

But at the end of the day, does it really matter if he was logged into Outlook vs Gmail when those words went from his brain to his fingers?

j/c

I think what’s funny is that Antonio brown got a SB ring and a job and gruden is now unemployed.

Wonder how Khalil Mack feels.

What do Jon Gruden, and Deshaun Watson have in common?
They miffed off a billionaiare?

What else, they had a sex scandal as part of their scandals. What do, Jon Gruden, Deshaun Watson, and Jeffrey Epstein have in common? (Nothing!, well they are males.) 2 of them are alive... and they all disrupted or angered billionaires?

What do DeShaun Watson, Jon Gruden, and Bernie Madoff have in common. (and Jeffrey Epstien).
... The guys name was Madoff? pronounced Made Off? and he stole fortunes, from the very rich?
Is that made up?
Who invested with him. Did anyone ever say to themselves, well I'm writing another 50 million dollar check to Bernie Made-off, and think just for a second, ehh. I wonder.

The country is going crazy right now. I heard a teacher??? not 100% sure of job. abmonished the use of the "N" word but in doing so used the "N" word and he was then fired. Just scary stuff going on.

Sounds like what happened to Papa John

That was a joke and a travesty. He should have been cancelled for his god-awful pizza.

Gruden should certainly be in the conversation for offensive coach of the year.

Well done.

jc

im going with shannon sharpe's new conspiracy theory:

Derek Carr leaked the emails. dude is on fire ever since gruden got wacked.

Haha that could be

Well. Since the most thing I want is the Browns to win the super bowl, I sure think he could help the Browns defense in some capacity, but I also think Ed Ogeron (spelling?) could.
(but none of that matters? all that matters is identity politics and signaling someone out for bad words 13 years ago.)