DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Gruden fired.

Among the many dumb aspects of these emails is that it all could have been avoided if Gruden had just emailed Allen’s private email instead of his work email.

I agree 100%.. Just remember, just because someone received those emails doesn't automatically make them guilty of anything. I've received emails over the years that had content I didn't agree with. I refused to respond.

Gruden sent them, lots of them, over a long period of time. He hasn't changed his mind set.

I'm glad he got his ass fired.

The first rule of email is that there are work accounts and personal accounts. You don't send anything that you want to keep private to a work account. It is that simple.

Gruden failed the most basic test, and suffered the consequences. A bit unfair, yes, but it is what you have to do.

I do wonder about all the other information collected and reviewed.

I'm not so sure what's a "bit unfair" about it.

Awww, are you portland and the other snowflakes offended. You guys offend me all the time. You should be fired.

Let's see. Gruden was not part of the NFL, employed by ESPN at the time.

Let's see. Who else have they found dirt on that has come to light?

Let's see. How long ago were those emails?

It has nothing to do with being offended. It's about not wanting a tire-fire of a human being to be a face of your franchise.

That’s because you truly are a snowflake.

Racist, homophobic, misogynistic language used in an abusive manner or tone towards another person should be offensive. The fact you seem to be okay with it says a lot about you and how your parents brought you up.
I’m not surprised.

Awe, you just think a corporation has to keep an employee who is a nasty human being. That if they don't it's not fair. There goes that snowflake thing you always carry on about. For the party of personal responsibility, you don't expect to have any.

Gruden and Dooty both grew up drinking the water in Sandusky. Lots of lead pipes there, just like Flint. My guess.

It is...it's abhorrent...but Gruden didn't do what I bolded above.

I feel dirty thinking that someone would infer that I am defending the guy. I'm not.

So what does that have to do with a corporation not wishing to be affiliated with him? I could understand your point if it were one or two isolated incidents, but it was a pattern of conduct over seven years that we know of.

Can you explain to me how that has anything to do with Gruden? Does any of that change his conduct? If you're eluding to the possibility that others may have done similar things which has not been shown or reported, I can certainly see how that's not right and should be corrected. But in no way does that excuse Gruden's behavior.

It was a pattern of conduct over a seven year period. He wasn't some high school or college kid when this happened. Kids do stupid things. I actually understand the point when people reach back to people's youth and try to say that's indicative of who they are as mature adults. I disagree when people try and do that. That's certainly not the case here.

He didn’t do it to their faces. Correct. But he did use that type of language when directly referring to certain people in his emails.

He most certainly did. Including Goodell. Not a good sign for a HC in the NFL. And it was very nasty.

jc

well, i wonder who the raiders plan on getting as a new HC. i hope its not some token pick, however i think Byron Leftwich has a legit shot at being a HC someday.

I get it. I am not defending Gruden.

The fact is I don't do what he did. It was a dumb thing to do. You have to assume any email that is sent to a work e mail address will be read by someone other than the recipient.

Although I don't want to make this political, as it is not the proper forum, The fact is it did not apply to a certain presidential candidate who dismissed similar bad behavior as "locker room" talk.

There is inconsistency in our society and we have to accept that.

The NFL investigates toxic workplace allegations against the Washington Football Team and Gruden of the Oakland Raiders is the first victim.

15 yard penalty on Goodell for "illegal use of press"..

Your definition of conduct themself as a decent human being becomes more and more across the line of, "BOW DOWN there is a knighted special person coming down the street, avert your gaze from His Highness, you peasants, you must show correct celebration of their identity." Or face dem! Con-se-quences! with every passing week.

Can't "conduct themself" in this context just mean don't send repeated emails over a series of time, which convey homophobic, misogynistic and racial slurs from your professional work email account?

I was thinking about this as well Swish....

I hope they don't go the "token" route as well but unfortunately it might be seen that way by many but one man who has been mentioned ALOT in the past searches who I think would do a great job is: Eric Bieniemy He already knows the division well and would come to a team that already has a good quarterback with some legit weapons.

I don't know about a token - I think it's a sacrifice and a deflection. It seems they are trying to prevent anything else coming out which is total BS.

LOL That's the funniest thing.. People like you who are afraid of everything calling others snowflakes... Yikes

Nobody is out to get you....

While I'm skeptical on how only Gruden stuff has come out of the investigation, on its own the punishment to Gruden fits.

Honestly, if a CEO or anyone below him exhibited this sort of behavior, they'd be tossed out on their butt. Especially as the company they worked for got larger. Is that not the case for a person who's face is all over the TV all the time? The guy worked for Disney at the time... is his getting fired really something we're arguing right now?

Some people are...some are not...some aren't seeing the difference.

There is a lot more to unpack than what's on the surface...and none of it has to do with his being fired...at least IMO.

my thing right now is what is the end game?

what gruden said was wrong and so the firing was inevitable.

what i have a problem with is that its starting to look like he was just the scape goat. the sacrificial lamb. im way more interested in the actual investigation going on with the WFT, but this is starting to look like a cover up. and the coach with a insane contract with no playoff appearances in god knows how long was the easiest to throw under the bus.

but overall, you know who's loving this right now? Urban meyer lololol

The NFL said they are not going to release the WFT investigation records. Which means they are just going to slowly leak out stuff because that’s what the NFL does.

People everyday, everywhere work for people who don't have a high opinion of them. Sometimes its bad enough its actionable i.e. you can file complaints, sometimes its bad enough you go elsewhere, sometimes your situation means you have to suck it up, and sometimes you simply have enough emotional fortitude and it doesn't bother you.

Gruden's behind the scenes stuff finally caught up with him. That's 100% on him.

What's the standard? Eh, I'd say its about 10 years at the moment.

What I find funny is all this celebrating of his firing as if some great moral victory was achieved. Some even appear to be personally sharing in that achievement which is really weird.

There's not a single Dawg here that can rightfully claim any level of moral superiority or righteousness when it comes to the NFL right? During the Goodell years alone think of all the dirt bags who have gotten off easy? We still tune in. Hell, last year we found out that the League engaged in race norming as a policy. We all still tune in.

Why?

Because we don't tune in on Sundays for a damn sermon on how to live a moral life. We tune in because we love the game of football. We love watchin it at the highest level even when our team is the worst for 2 decades. That's probably the same reason a guy who apparently isn't fond of black people or gay people made a career coaching and commenting in the League. At the end of the day, he still had a guy like Carl and a bunch of dudes of a different skin color on the field representing their coach and the team.

Gruden got his comeuppance and that's that. Anyone trying to make more of it just engaging in virtue signaling and come this Sunday (Well, tonight I guess technically) everyone will be tuning in at kickoff, the same hypocrite at their core Gruden was.

hey i agree.

but bro, this clown did this over the course of 7-8 years through the WORK email.

he was begging to get busted at this point.

name of the game is dont get caught.

One is being held accountable for his actions. The other was not. There was not a corporation or boss involved that had the option to fire him.



Does the order matter? I mean the investigation is ongoing. How this got leaked is something I have no way of knowing. What I do know is that I have zero evidence that the league had anything to do with the leak. Are you suggesting that a team or the league should deal with issues before the investigation is complete unless they are leaked?

I'm willing to let the investigation and subsequent consequences play out before I jump to the conclusion that this is some type of cover up or conspiracy to take the focus away from the Washington football team.

I also have seen zero evidence that Goodell had anything to do with any of this including Gruden's "resignation". Each team is its own corporation and the combined league is a way of making group decisions for all corporations in the NFL and the brand itself.

Leaders and those in charge are expected to maintain a certain standard. Obviously Mark Davis felt that standard was not met. Corporations have a public image to maintain. I think anyone who was surprised that this kind of thing goes on in the coaching and ownership ranks in the NFL are only fooling themselves. It is what it is. What surprises me more than anything is how so much of the public is making excuses for this type of behavior from someone in charge of coaching an entire NFL team.

I highly doubt anyone cares about the order of people getting in trouble. I think the assumption is that Gruden was the sacrificial lamb so that people at WFT (up to the owner) are kept safe. It's as assumption and we don't know how it'll play out, but I don't blame anyone for making it.

I'm not do much blaming anyone for making it. I'm simply asking if they have any actual evidence to base it on other than their own suspicions. I've seen far more of that going on in our society than I care to deal with. Feelings aren't much to base accusations on.

Its crazy what people will do when they are so entitled and have no fear of being held accountable.

Just for the sake of discussion, if it was from his personal email and they were leaked, would or should the outcome be different?

At least Gruden was good at his job. . .

https://twitter.com/billbarnwell/status/1448686054475771916?s=21

i dont know the answer to that question. if it was his personal email that got hacked or something, i would understand the argument that he shouldnt be fired for that.

however, i think it just delays the inevitable simply because you can explain it away to the media, but the players wont play for you anymore. they wont buy into anything he has to say. and for that, it just would've lingered until the bye week, where he would then resign anyway.

I'll be curious to see how the team responds, both on the field and to the media. This could have a devastating effect. I think I read somewhere that Nassib took a personal day after the news came out.

"Gruden shipped a fifth-round pick to the Bills for quarterback AJ McCarron"

Comparatively speaking that's not all that bad....

I'm white and I'm safe. If you're mentioning white guys in high profile jobs need to have a brain and NOT type, speak, preferably think they have the power to judge others....think again. Their is one judge and it ain't Gruden....Go Browns!!!

Well, I think some people are being contrary for the sake of being contrary. And others...?

I think some of that argument is about whether or not, short of any evidence Gruden was denying anyone of any fair opportunity independent of what anyone knew about the emails, does it matter what he thinks personally?

If it doesn't matter, then you are left with whether or not forcing a guy out of such a job for essentially a workplace policy violation is proportional.

But then, those questions end up being irrelevant because as you and Swish point out, its out there and now the organization ahs to make a decision on whether or not it wants to absorb the hit. Even if it were a personal email its hard to sympathize with that kind of mess.

#JudgeJudy

I kinda get what people are saying regarding personal email. He might not have gotten caught if he sent from his personal account to their personal account.

But at the end of the day, does it really matter if he was logged into Outlook vs Gmail when those words went from his brain to his fingers?