Long read so I won't copy and paste the full read. With position needs , was just looking at what would be a good way to fill some positions, through FA or the draft.
I was surprised at who is available and the cost that comes along with the player.
Would a vet help get the team faster to a chance at the play-off run to higher places or can a draft pick just as well at a cheaper price.
As to your sig: It seems the ONLY people than know everything and could do better are too busy sitting in the stands eating hot dogs and popcorn. They won't get on the field/court. Griping, yelling from the stands is easier.
Good list. Wish they would have included the player's height and weight.
The salary projections are nice. I don't have a good gauge for the contract value a free agent would generate.
Two Browns on the list.
#13 Clowney Contract Projection: One year, $15 million, $12 million total guaranteed At the price tag I re-sign him
#43 Njoku Contract Projection: Three years, $37.5 million ($12.5M per year, $25.5M total guaranteed) At that price point I let him walk. I think we can get a TE as good or better in rounds 2-4 (maybe even round 5) in this draft. There are close to 10 TE in this draft that could be pretty good and give us similar if not better production at a fraction of the cost.
I agree .. Love to see Clowney back, but The price for DNJ.. yikes. Height and weight for the FA's wasn't that much of a concern for me since their performances over the years is what mattered.
Just looking at the list, I like 3 receivers. Gallop, Christian Kirk, and JuJu. I'd be happy with any one of those guys, though both of Kirk and JuJu play mostly the slot.
Many of these players will be picked up by their current teams before the FA signing period ever begins. By the time teams are able to sign FA's on the open market, this list won't look nearly as impressive. It happens every year.
That must be it. The Chargers, Steelers, Raiders, Rams and Bucs are all teams with more drops by their WR's than we have. All of those teams made the playoffs. I think you have figured out the secret.
It's an odd thing some of these baseless accusations. First the accusation was that only OBJ was running the wrong routes and we would be better without him. Once he was gone and it proved we weren't "better without him", suddenly it's the other WR's too who are running the wrong routes. The ever evolving excuse making machine rolls on.
First the accusation was that only OBJ was running the wrong routes and we would be better without him. Once he was gone and it proved we weren't "better without him", suddenly it's the other WR's too who are running the wrong routes. The ever evolving excuse making machine rolls on.
Are you confusing THIS message board with another? Or one of your dreams? Who has ever stated on this board about non-OBJ receivers not running the correct routes?
PFF made it clear we had more open WR's on passing plays than any other team in the NFL. You can deny stats all you like. Nobody was saying they were running the wrong routes before OBJ left.
Thus, "We are better without him". They kept saying that and claiming the WR's played better when he was not on the field. It seems I'm not the one with the memory problem here. The same WR's with the only exception being Hodge left and Schwartz was drafted were ranked 11th in the NFL last year.
Let's recap shall we? The claim is Baker was a top 10 QB in 2020 and great in his first two games. He accomplished that while having the 11th ranked WR group. Now somehow Baker has no accountability while those same WR's that were ranked 11th last season and played in those "great games" the first two weeks get trashed. And no matter how you slice it, you avoid it like the plague that there are five teams in the playoffs who had more drops by their WR's than we had.
There are many fingers to point in why we did poorly this year. Picking and choosing who people blame seems to be a common theme.
The two key guys that are really important next year are Conklin and Clowney.
Conklin we signed as a free agent to fill a big whole. His return to 100% is a real question mark. Replacing him will not be easy if he does not recover. A patellar tendon tear can end a career. Recovery can be 6 months to a year. Lots of factors come into play for full recovery.
Pass rushers are critical positions. Clowney was a disruptive force. He is hard to handle. A long tough day for any tackle.
His return is for sure no guarantee. He will chase the money and where he wants to live.
Those two guys are not replaceable parts that come out of the draft and play at that level.
If we sign a wide receiver we have to make sure he’s not too famous so that Baker doesn’t feel like he has to force him the ball.
I'm wondering if we should invest in a top-tier WR. I would think bringing one in as a FA would be difficult, giving the current state of the offense. Would one want to come here and see his numbers go down? Look at the WR production. Even when they are open, which turned out to be quite a bit. If we bring in a WR in FA, it's going to have to be a lower-middle tier guy who will be told he'd be a primary target. A chance to be a #1 receiver that he would not have anywhere else. My guess for next year is that we have more of a WR-by-committee thing, where we have a bunch of JAGs.
We could likely get one here if we grossly overpay. But we already have Hooper only earning a fraction of his paycheck, and I would not want to do that again. With what he has done with the opportunities he has had over the last 2 seasons, he should be in Marion doing 5-10 for larceny.
Of course, if we draft a WR then he has little choice than to come here. If so, be good to figure out how to use him.
We have 39 mill. What is the point in releasing landry?
Because we can spend his money elsewhere and roll over whatever extra we have. There are things we should be worried about, one of them should not be worrying about the cap with this front office.
BJ Hill, DT Christian Kirk, WR Will Fuller, WR Maxx Williams, TE Jadeveon Clowney, Edge David Njoku, TE
I would keep Landry giving Baker some familiarity. I also make it a goal to build around Schwartz and People-Jones. Draft another speed receiver. The key here is speed. I think Kirk and Fuller are needed for a little veteran presence.
Add Hill at DT to put a little beef in the middle to slow down the opposition's run game. I definitely would draft another run-stopping NT.
Maxx Williams is the missing puzzle at TE having a blocker.
We have 39 mill. What is the point in releasing landry?
Because we can spend his money elsewhere and roll over whatever extra we have. There are things we should be worried about, one of them should not be worrying about the cap with this front office.
You make a good point here, but the receiver group needs a much-needed overhaul. If not Landry, you will need a leader in that room.
Since he has been the GM Andrew Berry has had a pretty clear plan in the off-season. After the 2019 season our offensive line was in shambles. He signed Jack Conklin and drafted Jedrick Wills. After the 2020 our secondary was decimated. We signed John Johnson and Troy Hill and drafted Greg Newsome. Both of those weaknesses became strengths because of the attention given to them. I would guess the receiver position receives that same sort of attention and Berry has shown he knows how to fix weaknesses.
I hope MR. Berry focuses on the WR position. It is a weakness for us at this point. Just about every playoff team has very good talent at the WR position. The 2 that don't got eliminated yesterday. Food for thought. WE need help at LB and D line too.
Yes, which gets to my point about overpaying someone to come here. Which gets to your point of maybe our QB forcing the ball to a top-tier WR if we get one here. Or maybe be like Hooper and once he signs a big contract he becomes below average. Maybe we can use the money elsewhere.
Milk had mentioned overhauling the WR room by adding Robinson, Kirk and Wilson/Olave. That looks really good on paper, but with us running a lot of 3 TE sets, does it make sense? Stefanski did not start running 3 TE sets because our WRs suck, it is something he has been doing.
Look, I am not against improving the WRs. I just hope our passing game can make use of it. There is a woman here in my neighborhood who I have never seen drive even 20 mph. She has a Honda Civic which is fine for what she does. It does not make sense to go get her an Audi R8 just because it is a better car.
Good list. Wish they would have included the player's height and weight.
The salary projections are nice. I don't have a good gauge for the contract value a free agent would generate.
Two Browns on the list.
#13 Clowney Contract Projection: One year, $15 million, $12 million total guaranteed At the price tag I re-sign him
#43 Njoku Contract Projection: Three years, $37.5 million ($12.5M per year, $25.5M total guaranteed) At that price point I let him walk. I think we can get a TE as good or better in rounds 2-4 (maybe even round 5) in this draft. There are close to 10 TE in this draft that could be pretty good and give us similar if not better production at a fraction of the cost.
For Njoku, $12.5m for a TE is top 5 money and $2m/year more than Hooper makes (he was highest TE at the time of the deal). No way does Njoku get anything near that. I think he compares best to the Bengals Uzomah - so maybe 6.5m-7m /year. Just my opinion though.
Clowney gets that. I think we resign him to a multi-year deal - maybe a 3 year deal that is essentially a 2 year deal. Something like 3 years 45M with $20m signing bonus, 7.5m roster bonuses and low salaries the first and 2nd year. That'd be $11m cap year 1 and $14m cap year 2. Dead cap would be $6.67 year 3 or if we kept him the cap would be $20m. Essentially a 2 year deal worth 28m. He had a good year here and I think the prospects of being opposite Myles will keep him here.
Just some food for thought. When you build your offense to run and you don't have quality receivers, highest PFF receiver was Landry @ 74th, then you're a certain loser when you can't run the ball. Case in point, PHI was the number one running offense in 2021 and are getting their azzes cleaned by Tampa because they can't run the ball. NEP who has lived by the run supporting their rookie QB was humiliated yesterday by BUF who shut down the run and forced Jones to throw to a weak WR receiving group. Though the Pats group might be considered better than the Browns, the elimination of the run doomed them from the start.
First, say what you want, when there are 73 WR's rated by PFF higher than your best WR - YOU HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM. The PFF rating grades the WR on every play whether they are getting the ball or not. Second, if your offense is set up around the run and a 2-3 TE set, what WR in his right mind is going to want to come to Cleveland for basically a single position and 150-200 less passing attempts than the top 10 teams (9 of which went to the playoffs this year. As a side note, 9 of the 14 playoff teams were in the top 10 in passing and after 3 games to this point, 2 of the 3 eliminated were not in the top 9 with SFO and PIT also having a strong likely hood of joining that group.
Bottomline is if you can't move the ball through the air at will then you are at a huge disadvantage. People on here are talking about revamping the WR's, what the hell for if you're going to run a 1 WR set more than 50% of the time? Someone earlier suggested Kirk and Fuller in FA to go with Landry. My question is what the hell are the other 2 guys going to be doing when the Browns are running 2-3 TE sets over 50% of the time. If you're going to go out and get WR's either through the draft or FA you have to change the scheme if you want to have any chance of a FA's coming here. At this point, I don't see Stefanski changing or Berry making him change but I will predict this - if there is not a dramatic improvement over 2021, Stefanski and Berry will both be gone long before Mayfield moves on to another team or gets a new deal. If you're going to run an outside the norm offense you had better win - another losing season or missed playoffs will fall squarely on Stefanski and Berry's shoulders long before it hits Mayfield.
My bad, actually "The PFF grading system isolates the targeted receiver’s role on every pass attempt. Credit is given for plays in which the receiver adds value to the offense, especially when it’s above and beyond what was called for schematically."
The PFF grading system credits receivers for creating big plays and elevating the play of the offense, while it downgrades for poor ball skills and poor route running. Receivers who consistently beat man and zone coverage, win contested catches or create yards after the catch will grade well in the PFF system. Receivers who fail to separate, fail to catch the ball consistently or fail to create after the catch will grade poorly.
Baker has the same number of play off wins as Dak. For all those claiming that Baker just needs to win, and everything else is an excuse ... I guess Dak is a bum too and should be out of the NFL. Add to that , without question Dak has played on better teams than Baker.
We have 39 mill. What is the point in releasing landry?
Because we can spend his money elsewhere and roll over whatever extra we have. There are things we should be worried about, one of them should not be worrying about the cap with this front office.
WR is already a need. I'll never understand the strategy of making an area of focus even more of a challenge.
Well, I did the math and it adds up to 1 drop per 23.6 attempts (4.2%), and 1.3 drops per game. That's using whatever NBC uses as a definition of a drop. I'd be willing to be that using what my eyes tells me is a drop (which means absolutely nothing to anyone), the drop percentage would be higher.
Well, I did the math and it adds up to 1 drop per 23.6 attempts (4.2%), and 1.3 drops per game. That's using whatever NBC uses as a definition of a drop. I'd be willing to be that using what my eyes tells me is a drop (which means absolutely nothing to anyone), the drop percentage would be higher.
I think you are correct. What the statisticians say is subjective, as are most stats.
To this day, 35 years after the fact, I still consider a pass I got in H.S. Crossing in the endzone. Ball was high - as in, crossbar high. That's 10 feet. I got 2 hands on it, but didn't bring it down. To me, that's a drop. (film verifies this, by the way) So, I don't know their - NBC's - criteria, but I know mine.
I don't watch a ton of non-Browns football, so I do wonder if the Browns ranking for drops can move around. One aspect of "Bad-Baker" is his inability to deliver a ball in stride. You know he's off when his receivers are reaching down to their feet or way behind them to secure passes. I could see how subtle differences to defining a drop could skew our numbers and shift our ranking.
Not saying it is but some throws are behind or low on purpose making the receiver the only one that can catch it. If the opinion is that Baker should have every pass hit the player in stride at the numbers then there's not a QB in the NFL that would qualify as the Browns QB. Passing is not single sided, the WR has the responsibility to make the tough catch for the QB when it's a little off target. Ask yourself, how make tough catches or in heavy traffic have the Browns WR's made the last 2-years? In the WR defense, when you're only seeing 3-5 targets a game it's almost impossible to develop any chemistry with your QB - just the facts!
It's kinda crazy how we're still near the top despite being somewhat aggressive in FA (we're not spending like idiots, obviously; but we're also not being shy).
I'm just curious stat boy, who had the most drops in the NFL???
I’m just curious rage boy, why would I help you do anything when you are that condescending???
1. so glad to see you recognize yourself as stat boy. 2. Condescending - yeah I do that to posters who themselves are condescending and just cannot get what they dish out. was it not you I just read in a thread you telling a poster that they DON'T KNOW HOW FA WORKS...so its ok when you do it.
You do serve a purpose ie stat boy. You made a claim and as I said I was curious how we stood in the realm of dropped passes which could solidify your opinion or not. So do we assume you took the route of ATTACKING me as a poster that it would not benefit your opinion. I thought you were a man with guts and might post the correct stats. but calling me condescending just was not how I thought you wou;d go. but nice to know the answer would help my opinion and hurt yours. Thanks for answering me anyways...lol Look you have taken the condescending position of late I have crowned you with utmost regard as STAT BOY a benefit to the board and my thanks go out to you for your prowess.
It's kinda crazy how we're still near the top despite being somewhat aggressive in FA (we're not spending like idiots, obviously; but we're also not being shy).
I think some of that is a by product of the FA we signed last year - some were 1 year deals. That is good and bad, as it creates space but means we have to fill a hole. e.g. Clowney - whether we sign him or replace him, it's a big hole to fill. Interestingly the top of the first mock draft I just looked at has a ton of edge rushers as top picks.
It's kinda crazy how we're still near the top despite being somewhat aggressive in FA (we're not spending like idiots, obviously; but we're also not being shy).
I agree with mgh888, with a caveat - some of those one year deals were set up such that the signing bonuses extended into future years. Clowney I believe was one of those - so if we don't re-sign (maybe technically a restructure) him, we may have dead cap in future years to account for. Cap room will be more difficult after this next season. Both Baker and Denzel have one year left - if we keep both, that could be a lot of money. I'd think Denzel would be in the 14-18m/year range and who knows on Baker (not the $40m+ elite guys are getting, but $25-30m that Garoppolo, Ryan, Tannehill, Stafford, Carr... are getting (lower than that are journeymen like Dalton and Fitzpatrick and rookie deals)) that's likely $40m+ between the two of them. Are we really good with the cap? We're about to find out.
edit: for giggles I looked up Market value for both Denzel and Baker on spotrac. I was a little low for Denzel and low for Baker. I can't imagine we pay him 32m/year unless next season he plays like the last half of 2020 Denzel 18.7/year average for a 5 year deal Baker 31.9/year average for a 5 year deal
