Pet peeve:

Re-sign = I want to re-sign David Njoku.
Resign = I wish Hue Jackson would resign because he is a terrible coach.

It would be no surprise at all if the Browns release Hooper after June 1st where they would be saving $19m but eating $10m the next three years. It is a bad contract.

Also, I see them cutting Jarvis and Higgins. I think they will keep Tretter this last year on his deal.

I expect a extension for Ward. I see then signing Clowney or signing Chandler Jones if Clowney decides to go somewhere else.

In the end I think Berry will sign Njoku.

They could designate Hooper a June 1st cut and cut him anytime. They don’t have to wait until June 1st.

Higgins is a free agent. There is no need (or ability) to cut him.

Hooper is not needed for what he makes and produces.

Higgins I doubt will get an offer from us.

In fact I don't think Schwartz is guaranteed to make the team. He will be in camp but he will have to show improvement. DPJ may be the only guy returning.

Hooper's numbers are 13.25M cap hit if we keep him, 11.25 dead cap (one year) if we cut him (per spotrac). If we were to designate him as post June 1 - it'd be 5.625m dead cap in 2022 and 5.625m dead cap in 2023. Basically we save 2m by cutting him in 2022 (more if we designate post June 1, but have dead cap next year)

I agree Hooper is likely gone. I also agree on Njoku and Ward. With Clowney - I'd be surprised if he signed elsewhere unless it was a big difference - he had his best (and healthiest) year in quite a while and has a good thing with Myles on the other side.

The only thing about Clowney is he might want to play where it is warm and near water.

I listened to Myles saying when trying to recruit Clowney and get him to come back that he liked warm weather and the ocean.

IMO Clowney will follow the money. He may get a big offer from a team. I am thinking two years at $12 a year.

Schwartz is a guy I expect to take a big leap in 2022. DPJ is possibly on his last leg. I could potentially see an almost entire new group for Baker led by a FA, a draft pick and Schwartz starting. DPJ could be that guy also but he needs to keep improving.

Schwartz does make me nervous however, due to the time he stopped his route feeling heat and causing an interception.

I also expect a lot of concern from people to be that we won't look as good on paper as we did last year, but I 100% believe our passing game will be much improved and I don't even know who the WR or TE will be, but I have confidence in the guys upstairs to get out right.

j/c:

Franchise tag candidates for all 32 NFL teams entering the 2022 NFL offseason

CLEVELAND BROWNS: TE DAVID NJOKU
2021 overall grade: 70.9
Projected franchise tag number: $10,931,000

Njoku had a more efficient contract year than Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith in 2020, posting higher yards per route run (1.56) and more yards gained after contact (138) on fewer receptions than Henry or Smith. Coming off the fifth-year option, Njoku will still only be 26 years old in 2021 and has shown several flashes of being a quality tight end. Cleveland may feel inclined to use the franchise tag while working towards a multi-year agreement.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-franchise-tag-candidates-32-nfl-teams-2022-nfl-free-agency

I think the Browns know what they have with DPJ. He is a solid number two receiver.

Schwartz has much to prove. He must have a strong camp or he may not make the roster.

Schwartz has to learn how to use his speed. That means receiver techniques. All the small details involved in gaining separation and using ball skills to catch and secure.

I don't know if he will make the move from straight line speed to NFL receiver.

As it stands today I think Jarvis is gone. Berry may offer him a reduced amount to play for and I don't think he will accept it.

I don't know what the final receiver room will look like but it will be made up of fresh faces.

We better have one hell of a plan if we're cutting what little vet talent we have in the WR room for cap savings.

j/c:

How many QBs started out as not-good as MT has and been able to rise to starter level after their 1st stint?

and on that note, today is the start of the Tagging period.

February 22-March 8: NFL clubs may designate Franchise or Transition Players.

I would think Clowney and Njoku are both under consideration for the franchise tag.

j/c:

I could see Rudolph as an option if/when we cut Hooper.

j/c:



Mayfield, Ohio's own.

No thanks. Way too small to open windows on a regular basis. He has 426 yds and 3 TD in three seasons... and over 20% of that productivity came on one play.

I'm not advocating we trade for him. And would most certainly be a depth guy no matter where he goes.

Might be worth having if only as PR/KR.

Many times when a quarterback is taken high in the draft his success is tied more to what the team does than the quarterback.

Trubisky had one year as a starter in college when he was drafted by the Bears. He played for North Carolina.

He got shoved into the starter role with the Bears. He was not ready. The coaching since fired was terrible.

He is probably a better option than any qb in this draft.

He will get a chance to start and he may do well?

We shall see. I don't believe the Browns would pay him and he will have better chances from other teams.

Source: #Browns sniffed around the idea of trading for #Cardinals WR Andy Isabella last deadline. Isabella now has permission to seek a trade. I’m told Cleveland is still likely interested.
https://twitter.com/StainbrookNFL/status/1499078467547242500

And something to keep in mind. I believe there have been two reported instances since Berry took over as GM that when it became known the Browns actively pursued a guy but didn't/couldn't get him, Berry got them the following year. It was Takk McKinley and Jadeveon Clowney. We'll see if this holds true w/ Isabella. The only difference is that the former two players were FA at the time. Isabella is not.

Re: Higgins

I'm not sure I ever grasped what was going on behind the scenes with him and the coaching staff's reluctance to play him a bit more.

By coaching staffs do you mean all the coaching staffs he ever played under?

Maybe I put the apostrophe in the wrong place. ( Staff's vs. staffs' reluctance). Oh well.

I was referring to why he didn't seem to get more playing time from any Brown's coaching staff.

I was joking because he has been buried by multiple coaching staffs.

Keenum needs to go if we're not going to use him. Far too much money for a bench seat.
Higgins probably needs to go, too. Whatever the deal is, he just doesn't get on the field or produce much when he does. It's a roster spot that needs to produce more.

Harrison... it sucks to lose him, but he's going to want more money that we're likely to pay for a 3rd Safety.

Njoku

If the Brown's are not going to play a dedicated TE (like a Kelce or Kittle) then you cannot justify paying your TE's dedicated money. Hooper's contract is already overpriced due to this scheme Stefanski is hell bent on playing. The problem lies with the dead cap money. No matter how you look at it, either a pre or post June 1 cut, it's going to cost the Brown's TE room approximately 11 million either this year or spread out over the next 2 years. Considering the targets were basically split between them, Njoku 36/475/4 and Hooper 38/345/3, there's no justification for either one of the guys getting paid more in 2022 than Kelce is in KCC (8.886M in 2022). Franchise Tagging Njoku at 10.5M is just as stupid as continuing to pay Hooper especially if they have to split the receptions.

Now people will say that Njoku has a higher upside. Pundits will say - show me where he's shown that upside stat wise the last 5 years that makes you think he's due a Kelce type contract. Hooper supporters could say how do you know his value to the team if you're going to cut his targets over 30% since the Browns signed him.

Bottomline - if the Browns cut Hooper and sign Njoku to a let's say 3-years for 30M - the Browns would be basically paying Njoku over 21M for his services in 2022 - REALLY? If they keep both then that would mean the Browns would have over 22M invested in the TE position in 2022 before factoring in Bryant. Letting Njoku walk, keeping Hooper & Bryant and drafting a 4th or 5th round TE would get the Browns TE room salary more in line with what it should be. Signing Njoku to a similar deal as Hooper is sitting on would just be ignorant at this point with so many key positions to fill and/or upgrade. Besides, if you're going to run 2 TE sets and split the targets - neither one of them have contracts that are justified. Kinda stuck with Hooper, don't make it worse giving Njoku the same type of deal.

Rich Gannon

Drew Brees

Both Gannon and Brees where much better than Trubisky early in their careers.

Brees

What was the most important factor in the Brees development? San Diego played a scheme that Brees needed to adjust to but drafted Rivers who fit their scheme better and New Orleans and Payton built their offense around the skill set that Brees exhibited in college. Two things become critical in the development of a QB at the NFL level that most teams miss. Having an offensive line that can protect the franchise QB and running a scheme that takes advantage of the skill set of the QB. 70% of the time, the vast majority of QB's entering the NFL always have to deal with a poor line and never have the opportunity to develop because they consistently invest in the skilled positions before the line. The other 30% of the time the team drafts a QB to play in a scheme that they have never been subjected to. For over 2 decades, the Browns consistently failed on part A. Finally, that has been addressed by the Browns front office. The Browns are still failing at part B and by all indications still searching for that scheme QB rather than a skill set player. Problem is that with the scheme QB, you are always looking for that guy that can take the team to the next level but never find him because the scheme always takes priority over the skill set you're searching for to no avail.

I've always rooted for Hubbard after he restructured and became our 6th Oline, but this is surprising if true.

if true

Well, the team doesn't really know if Conklin will be at 100% at the start of the season, Hudson and Vance have been underwhelming, he knows the offense, and apparently is a good presence in the locker room. But that all said, he has sucked for us too.

I thought Hudson came on well enough at the end of the season, all things considered (he was a rookie, and the season was kind of a disaster). I'm just surprised because I thought Hubbard's injuries alone stamped his ticket off the roster, let alone having to re-sign him. I also imagine that the FO is looking to save some salary, so having a younger guy as their 6th is probably what they're shooting for.

That would be a good move if the numbers are inline.

He played well in the role he played.

Ditto to all of that. I thought based on age, cost, injuries, etc.. that there was zero chance we re-sign Hubbs.

I suppose this speaks strongly as to what we think of what's going to hit the market in two weeks. The market is kinda empty.

If he can play at 90% of what he was, I'm all for this, and it relieves a LOT of worries about our OT spots.

My guess is we’ll get him on a cheap one year deal and if he’s not all the way back and/or Hudson takes a big leap he’ll be cut.

This is why we aren’t trading Kareem Hunt. And also why drafting a running back high the in the draft is just about the worst decision a team can make.

j/c

I don't have a link...but my memory is such that I've read a lot on the interwebs that our FO really likes Hubbard and he loves being here.

MJ Stewart really won me over as the year progressed. Kudos to whoever suggested moving him to Safety.

Reminder, Andy Isabella is basically the fastest receiver in the league.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/andy-isabella

Which only reinforces that speed isn't as big of a factor in WR's as some make it out to be.

Agreed. But Isabella is worth throwing a late round conditional pick at (which is what it will take).

Hudson would have to make a BIG leap ..

To be a backup? Not really.

I would say we should just agree to disagree.

j/c If we're looking for a fast former bust WR, I'd rather just try to sign John Ross and not have to worry about the trade compensation. But I'm not really looking for a fast bust.

I want more of a sure-handed technician that's not afraid to go over the middle, though with as much size and speed/quicks as possible going with that. I'm fine seeing what Schwartz can do in the field stretching role.

Not a bust, but sign me up for Isaiah McKenzie from Buffalo for that role.

Former busts?

I'll take Laquon Treadwell, he's a FA.

That way I can avenge my choice of Corey Coleman, eight picks earlier.

He had one of his worst seasons under Stefanski in Minnesota, so he should fit right in.

Damn.

Are all fourth string linebackers this much drama or just Mack Wilson?

Nobody hypes and loves Mack Wilson like Mack Wilson.

I'm going to miss Twitter Mack Wilson.

I couldn't be more happy that we are moving on from Mack Wilson. He is a bottom of NFL roster type player.

Happy isn't the right word. I ended up rooting for Mack Wilson. That time a TE trucked Ward, Wilson came in there blew him up and gave him a talking to. We don't have enough of that on our team, IMO.

But to your point... yes, it's past due we acquire players that push Mack off the roster.

Andy Isabella is a name I would be intrigued with. He’s kinda been forgotten about there

Exactly - and another 4th round pick who flashed once in a while but never did anything much.

I was listening to the Browns propaganda radio show on WKNR and state sponsor Zegura has all but guaranteed a deal will be worked out to sign Njoku.

So true....so true.

Sounds great, but the one thing we have to ask ourselves is whether he'll "take" to our O. Our scheme is not exactly designed to feed massive targets to WRs.

I would rather have Njoku than Landry too. I think Hooper will be gone as well if possible

I'm really curious how they handle Hooper. You can make the argument that Hooper's last season was more disappointing than Landry's (I do when you take injuries into consideration). I don't think Berry and co. subscribe to the "my guy vs previous regime's guy", but Hooper (IIRC) was their first big-name FA signing. But I think it comes down to finances, and the money is such that not a whole lot is saved by cutting Hooper (the opposite situation as Landry). If we do hang onto Hooper and re-sign Njoku, I would hope that their respective # of targets flip-flops.

Their targets and catches were pretty close. Not sure that would change much, the philosophy seems to be keeping the legs fresh and letting the defense pick their poison when they're both on the field.

I get the reasoning for cutting Hooper and I've said many times he has underperformed his contract. But, I don't know how high up Hooper is on the chopping block just yet. I mean, we are going into the season currently with the following WR/ TE group assumptions (or at least I am):

1. Landry will be cut
2. Higgins will be a FA and leave
3. Njoku re-signs.


Not counting Hooper at the moment, our top options will be Njoku, DPJ, Schwartz. I think more and more people assumed that Hooper would be cut due to his contract and that was then amplified with the Njoku extension news. First, regarding his contract, whether you cut/trade him post-June or in the 2023 offseason, the dead cap will be the same in 2023 ($7.5MM). You get rid of him prior to June, you're only saving $2M this year (kinda like the OBJ situation last year). Why not just keep him in an offense that plays heavy the TE position? The contract is not favorable considering his performance, unfortunately, not matter how you slice it.

Now, if the team gets a free agent WR they like and draft another relatively high in the draft, maybe that changes the situation. Especially if the overall FA moves and extensions are more 2023 cap heavy and the FO would prefer to have his deal off the books in 2023.

If I had to guess right now.....I think they keep Hooper in 2022. Another option.....they restructure his deal to essentially make 2022 his last one in Cleveland.

They spelled his name wrong.

Fine.....as backup.

Or a coach.

Ballsack Sports getting people too much these days.

What it says: "Sendejo helped lead the team to the playoffs in 2020"

What it should say: "Despite Sendejo the team still made it to the playoffs in 2020"

j/c:

Mack Wilson is somewhat of an "old school type " of NFL LB, especially when compared to the Browns present day LB standards .

When was the last time the Browns coaching staff took LBer talent and developed them into an elite LBer...?

If the Browns front office lets Wilson walk watch for the Ravens or Stoolers to pick him up and develop him into an outstanding LBer.

I'm totally fine with PIT or BAL signing Wilson. In fact, I encourage it.

Let him start even!

What a difference a young, cheap Ceedee Lamb makes, eh?

Yep. Plus potentially having Cedrick Wilson there too round out their WR corp. The Zeke contract doesn't help Cooper's situation either. Add in the possibility of keeping Schultz at TE, Cooper had been the odd man out for awhile, IMO, because of his deal.

I am praying that he finds another team.

Good Grief.

If true...Well, damn.

Sucks x2, because it also dilutes the field and raises the price of those who are left.

He and Amari Cooper will cancel each other out.

There’s no realistic way we re-sign Sendejo, right? Haha

I would sign Cooper immediately

May take a big name vet to resurrect Mayfield and save him from the critics. Still not confident that Ski can take advantage of veteran talent. I pray that a Cooper can do that. But we need a stronger presence than Cooper, I think. I had higher hopes from him last year.

I wouldn't be upset with Cooper, but the terms would have to be favorable to the Browns. I am not talking about a cheap contract so much, but it would have to have some easy outs and performance triggers included. If not we are probably better off with some mid range guys and rookies because as Bard alluded to, that might be more suited to our style of play. We don't seem to be geared towards the big play, deep ball type receiver for whatever reason.

I don't see him going any cheaper than 15-18 mil. per on the open market.

You know you are in a bad situation when you cut a player and then he basically gets the same contract in the open market.

That's the thing about it though. Often times a players value to a team depends on need at the position of that team. In the case of Cooper I think the way the contract was structured speaks volumes as to the intent of Dallas. I mean we see it all the time. Contracts that re back loaded to the point you pretty much know the team isn't going to honor the last year or two of the contract. The only glitch for Cooper is that this draft is WR heavy. So I don't think the competition for his services will be as high as they would be in some off seasons. But with the ever increasing salary cap rises and higher money contracts across the board, I still say the price range will be in the 15-18 mil. range.

What is wrong with the Browns doing something with unfavorable terms.
I would say the OBJ situation ended as a look back as a whole situation of unfavorable terms, investment to return.
The same with (redacted) still on the team, so,
Favorable terms? What has that ever gotten anyone.

Why sign another teams WR ahead of Landry, we know what we have in him, he is not just a very good WR but a leader in the locker room and on the field, if your going pay Cooper more than Landry then just pay sign Landry his $16 mil first then go get a FA WR ...

Probably about right. That is why I said not a cheap contract. Just one that is favorable to the team.

Basically, Landry's money gets it done. Structure is usually the big deal when you get in to high dollar contracts.

I'm as big a Landry fan as anyone (except for maybe the poster that gave him the nickname 'vice grips'), but you got a pile of money and you have to choose to give it to Landry or Cooper you give it to Cooper every time. No question.

It's not the best year to be a mid-tier free agent WR. Even someone as good as Landry is going to be faced with the fact that there are several more skilled/talented WRs in free agency AND it is a year where pretty much every team in the NFL is going to be able to get a good WR in the draft.

Landry is looking at either a restructure here or free agency in a saturated market. I hope he takes the big pay cut that is coming and stays here.

The combination of say Landry, Amari Cooper, and a top rookie WR as our new starting 3 sounds pretty dang good to me!

Landry needs stay here, we can win big this year and he would be a big part of that ...

Don't forget DPJ ...

As a #4... I could never forget him.

As anything more than that, though, he has some work to do.

A little unkind? I thought DPJ looked like a legit rookie 2020. He regressed a bit last year and I think he had some injury woes like most on the team. If his ceiling when healthy is a #3 - I think we'd be in good shape. I think he's got potential to improve and be a solid #2.

Not unkind at all, I think; just not sugar-coated.
Your quote right there kinda sums it up: that's where he *could* be if he continues to improve, but that isn't where IS. At least, not yet.


As it stands, he is *not* a better WR than Landry, and if we were to keep Landry and bring in the like of Amari, then right off the bat, DPJ is no more than the #3. Add in a highly drafted rookie and he stands to slide back even further.

Yeah, DPJ won’t ever be a #1 IMO. But he can be good depth

j/c:



And the supply for high-end WRs in free agency possibly gets smaller.

Won't be surprised to see the Browns franchise tag Njoku if they can't get a deal done.

This is what happens every year when Browns fans make their wish list before the tags are assigned. After all is said and done, there isn't usually a glut of talent left at any one position on the FA market. And for those that are left, their services are in high demand. Mid level players are your best investments in the FA market unless you can run up on a deal like we did with Clowney last year. I thought our FO did a pretty good job at finding those mid level players last year and that's what I'm expecting to see a lot of this year. I'm not ruling out the chance we sign some top level WR or DE on the FA market, but the bulk of our movements will be for mid level talent. I don't think we have a FO that will overpay by a large margin for what's left at the top of the FA talent. It just doesn't seem like the way they roll.

j/c...

The Cowboys are going to lose Amari Cooper because they signed Ezekiel Elliott to a ridiculous extension when they already had his replacement on the roster.

Johnny Stanton time.

j/c...

Never mind!

Not anymore we are not....sorry bout ur luck calvin....shoukd learned from pete rose

whoa

j/c:

Another TE gets the franchise tag.

One player that is not getting much run so far is DJ Chark. Maybe that changes as more WRs are removed from the pool.

There's still a pool?

Well, when you only play 4 games in the previous season due to injury, and have only a 31.8% catch rate in the games you did play (per pro-football-reference) link, it doesn't do much for your marketability.

He could be a good buy low candidate. Might be willing to do a 1 year prove it or incentive based deal. If he is open to doing that, he'd probably want to go to a more pass happy/WR "friendly" team, though.

j/c...

In a completely unsurprising move, Rodgers is staying in GB.

**Memphis heads over to a Steelers message board for reactions**

j/c...

I don't see how you call that "a monstrous commitment" when you're talking about the guy that's responsible for like 99% of your success since he's been the starter. Makes it sound like GB is sticking their neck out for the guy, which I found funny.


All that aside, Rodgers staying in GB is good for us.

If Tom Brady was ever going to have second thoughts, now would be the time. Price tags for Jameis, Mariota, and Trubisky all went up a bit today.

Interesting.

I wonder if the Browns made an offer?

Big trade! Benjamin Allbright had been saying quite awhile that Wilson to Denver was his most likely landing spot if he were to be traded.

DK Metcalf for pick 13?

Deal.

j/c:

Now that the Aaron Rodgers domino fell, the QB carousel might be coming.

Russel Wilson trade bigger news than Rodgers, IMO. If we were going to make a move on a vet, I wanted it to be him though now I'm hesitant with what it appears it took to get him.

This is going to be at least three firsts, right? Less than that and I’ll be upset that we weren’t in on it.

So we currently have the, at best, 10th best QB in our conference.

The DeShaun Watson legal situation is going to make things very interesting.

Wilson's value might have been reduced by his no trade clause. Reportedly would only accept trade to Broncos, Giants, Saints, Vikings.

Browns fans going to be just as hyped when Berry trades for Jordan Love!

Seattle gets two firsts, two seconds, Drew Locke....three players, is how I hear it.

I was just thinking the same thing.

Another great QB added to the AFC. Yay!

Tank for Stroud? Or too soon?

Get ploughed for Stroud!

I don’t know if Russell Wilson was available to us but if he was and we didn’t pay this price then it is a mistake.

The Seahawks got fleeced.

Full trade.

This would be like us giving up a lesser Baker Mayfield, Jordan Elliott, and David Njoku (plus the picks for Russel Wilson. The Broncos robbed the Seahawks.

Deshaun Watson is of zero interest to me. He is a sexual predator who has been accused by 21 women. I don't care if he "gets off" in the eyes of the law - or pays off his accusers like TheRapist did in Pittsburgh. You don't have that many different individuals all accusing you of the same thing - you don't need to have 21 different woman as your masseuse. No thanks.

My heart says I don’t want DeShaun Watson. My head says that if we don’t get him someone else will.

j/c...

Interesting. Maybe Ciara wasn't aware of the revitalized East Bank of the Flats and all the West Side Market has to offer!

Gotta be the Panthers, right?

j/c:

that's it?

i hope mayfield comes back 100%. right now there is clearly an arms race in the AFC. and there are other teams who can run the ball and play good defense. the QB evelating the team is now more important than ever.

j/c

I think the price tag the Bronco's paid was ridiculous. I'm glad we dodged that bullet.

The Rodgers deal alone will greatly impact the contract price of signing veteran QB's. Thanks Green Bay.

I dunno who robbed who, but with our roster situation I wouldn't feel comfy giving up assets when we're still trying to build up the roster.

j/c:

I wonder of the Seahawks are gonna go full rebuild mode now and trade away some other pieces? Like TylerLockett? Or DK Metcalf even, going into the last year of his deal.

Seems a bit weird coming from their own twitter account, but funny all the same.

j/c:

I doubt the fo is that bumb

I'll take running with Baker - or any other QB in the NFL, or a rookie - rather than be forced to try and root for a sexual predator. That'd be a death nail for as long as he was on the team.

Our first should be offered for Metcalf and our third should be offered for Lockett.

Eh. I'd offer a 2nd claiming we'd have to sign him to an healthy extension.

Tyler, maybe a 4th with a production incentive to a third. He'll be 30 as the season starts.

Clearly, I'm spitballing. But I don't know if I'd be willing to give up a first for DK. He's a beast, for sure. Just seemed to be inconsistent w/ a really good QB.

He doesn’t turn 25 until December. I’d probably give up more than our first for him. He’s more of a sure thing than anything we’ll get in the draft.

Wow. I didn't know he was only 24 at the moment. No doubt, he definitely has proved value, so ok, a first rounder seems somewhat reasonable but no sure I'd go more than that. He still has been inconsistent, IMO.

Image a world where you could have your choice of Marquise Brown, Deebo Samuel, A.J. Brown, D.K. Metcalf, Diontae Johnson or Terry McLaurin... by just NOT trading your 1st round pick for Odell Beckham.

"King John, baby. Let's Goooooooooooooo!"

Good ole Buddy Boy.

j/c:

Not counting QB, here are the main offensive weapons for SEA as of now:

RB- Carson
WR- Lockett
WR- Metcalf
TE- Fant

Fant is the interesting part in this whole trade, IMO. In a prior post, I suggested that SEA might embark on a rebuild, and that might still be the case. But adding Fant to a relatively good offensive receiver group might indicate Seattle is actively looking to a vet QB with this group to plug n play. And, coupled with the draft haul they just received, might be in a good position to fill other holes.

We'll see.

L

The Seahawks are officially one of the dumb teams.

I think a bunch of people keep forgetting that Wilson could veto any trade to a place he didn't like.

I will qualify my statement.

If the Seahawks had permission to trade Wilson to WFT and didn’t because they are in the same conference then they are one of the dumb teams.

I'm disappointed in the Rodgers deal. I was counting on Rodgers drama to keep me entertained until the draft.

Favre could still un-retire with the paychecks being thrown around.

The exact type of player we need but have no chance of getting.

j/c:

Slow poke

Again, now would be a good time to get DK Metcalf.

j/c...

Wait until after the draft when the market shrinks and the bidding war dies down. Second round pick offer or opt out.

Metcalf will need extended which will require a big dollar commitment and we do not even have a franchise QB. Why commit big dollars and draft capital w/o a QB in place?

Given our rebuilding situation on offense, I'd build WR through the draft. Sign a guy like Cedrick Wilson in FA.

* The Browns are no longer a true Super Bowl contender.

I’d commit all the money to guys around the QB so that when the QB becomes available or needs to be drafted he is inserted into a great situation.

Generally teams want to make the trade before the draft because they want to have the pick in hand as soon as possible. If Metcalf is made available someone will trade for him quickly. I hope it is us.

This is what you do when you are bringing on a rookie QB and trying to promote an environment in which to have early success. Instead, we have the the #1 overall QB that is expected to lift the guys around him, but cannot. The Browns would be presumably giving up future assets and building around a QB that will unlikely be here next year on a team that is a non-contender.

What is the upside given the dollars involved, draft capital and strength of WR class in '22?

The upside is when you get the QB you don’t need anything. You hit the ground running. In the meantime Baker is given everything he needs to succeed, so if he doesn’t you know for sure he’s not the guy.

I am not concerned about the depth of the receiver class. Every receiver class is deep at this point. Colleges are pumping receivers out every year that are Uber talented.

I weep, acknowledging we lack the elite franchise QB this franchise has never had. Almost-rans.

I was looking forward to come home from home tonight and read the comments about this trade.

My initial thoughts when I saw the trade and thinking if that trade was to us, was hell no that is too much to give up. I'm still leaning to that side as we don't have any WRs and need some DL starters. Obviously, that is without going through cap details and how much we would have left to spend on areas.

I was interested in seeing how everyone's posts would change my mind in all the picks that were given up.

I know Wilson didn't want to come here, so this whole scenario is out (and i'm fine with that). I tend to side on the pick hoarder and using them as bargaining chips, flexability, and etc. I guess that's probably noticeable from previous posts.

Anyways, if this trade was for us. I think I would've offered a third 1st rounder and added DK to the trade, maybe even Lockett. Without Lockett, I would've pulled back a 2nd rounder. This way Wilson still has his familiar weapons and the WR room has at least some talent. I'm sure we would have to pull some some FAs that are looking to have a 1 year bounce back.

As for Denver, I think it was a good trade for them. They have some WR weapons already in place

It’s so frustrating that I’ve (I’m sure I’m speaking for almost all of us) become numb with the position.

Bleh, doubt that does anything to help us re-sign Clowney at a reasonable cost.

I just read an account by a woman who did not file against Deshaun Watson.

She was referred by another therapist and had a encounter with Watson.

Her story was straight forward and sounded honest.

He may not have done anything forceful. But Watson is a creep show. He has problems to do the crap he has done. All these women are telling the same story.

He will play again. And people can act like nothing happened and his play on the field is all that counts.

I would rather have Baker. I don't want a thing to do with Watson. And I hope Berry makes no attempt to trade for him. I don't care what kind of player he is.

This class is deeper than most. If all that many receivers come out who are all that good, why is there a problem getting one?

All player evaluation guys have their strengths. So with strengths come some sort of weakness so to speak. My feeling is that for whatever reason we seem to be fairly weak in evaluating wide receivers and defensive tackles. Maybe we need to tweak the WR and DT evaluators.

DT's are always pretty rare. Maybe we need to quit trying to find one in the mid rounds. With this years receiver class, we should be able to find good ones in to the 3rd round. If not, we defiantly have a problem finding good ones or we have a problem with the coaching staff and have a problem in either teaching them or using them properly.

I would wish that all this garbage talk about replacing Mayfield would quit. This is the same guy that fans wanted to have a parade for when he led a piss ant franchise to the playoffs after 2 plus decades rolling in [censored] year after year. The same guy that quarterbacked a franchise coming off a 1-31 two year campaign to lead the team to a 11 win season by his 3rd season. That same team that took 4-years (2014-2017) to win 11 games before he got there. Mayfield's reward for turning around the franchise after a failing 2021 - pleads to replace him at any cost - even suggesting a Trubisky as a replacement - no #1 WR for the last 2-years - played through an injury filled season only to be questioned about his skill set - both RB's missing time - OL decimated - and a WR group who accepts no blame yet it's #2 WR makes season ending comments that he was playing hurt without telling the team. A WR group that didn't have a single player PFF rated higher than 73rd in the league - but it was all Mayfield's fault.

All of this and the Browns have a coach that refuses to play to the skill set of his WR's - or his TE's - or more importantly his QB, yet Mayfield is still there ready to lead his team in 2022. The Browns fans don't deserve a winner. They will never be satisfied or accept valid excuses. Being a top 5 QB in 2020 with a playoff appearance and the first 2 games before injury in 2021 is not good enough. If you're a Browns QB you must win no matter what the circumstances. But hey, let's trade away the Browns future to get a Wilson who will also be put on the "Browns One Way Out of Town" train if they don't win. That's what Browns fans do - in almost 30-years, I haven't seen a QB yet that the fans have supported for more than a few games.

For the most part, Berry has done a great job. I'm not on board with all of his moves but no one is 100% right all the time. I waiting to see how he addresses the team this year. Is he going to get Mayfield the weapons he's been lacking the last 2-years? Is this the year Berry plugs the holes in the defense so the team can close out games the way they should? Are the Browns going to finally play to win instead of playing not to lose? IMHO, Stefanski and Berry are in a prove it year as much as Mayfield, maybe more so. Will Berry put his QB in the best situation to win? The moves that happen over the next couple of months will tell if the Browns are going to put their QB in the best possible situation to win or not. The ball is now in Berry's court..................................

Manning, Brady, Stafford, now Wilson moved on.

I want Baker to lead the Browns to a Championship. But this is a year that he must begin to show consistency. I have faith because I have seen him play at a high level. The problem is playing at that level consistently.

If he fails. The Browns are back in the quarterback hand out line. We need Baker to perform. The path to replace him is difficult and can ruin a team.

I believe in Berry and Stefanski. I want to stick with them. I don't expect perfection. I think they have what is needed to be successful if given the time.

Baker failing could cause a ripple effect and sink the team.

Berry will do his job this off season. He will bring in the needed positional talent. Stefanski will adjust and adapt. The talent will be there to make a run to the playoffs.

I'm on board with all of that ,

Excellent post. Finally some sense.

There are moments when I have my doubts regarding Andrew Berry. Highly intelligent and seems to have all the potential in the world to be a excellent GM but my concerns is about his lack of experience how to deal with conflicts and outside pressure. The OBJ saga ended with lot’s of unanswered questions.

Berry says all the right things regarding Baker but still the overall feeling is that the FO isn’t 100% sure about how to move forward with our QB. This uncertainty creates unnecessary questions. The media continue to portrait our QB in negative terms. Even local media jump on that bandwagon. The Browns nation are divided in two groups. Some supporters seems to dislike, some even express hate against one of their own players. All this drama suck energy out of all of us who’re emotionally invested in the Cleveland Browns.

This vague communication habit has to stop and the person who has most power to set a new positive tone is our GM.

j/c:

Bring me Younghoe Koo.

Draft me some Matt Araiza.

Koo and Araiza. Prosper.

The problem is with the fan base in general. They can't seem to wrap their minds around the fact that a healthy Baker played well and took us to the playoffs in 2020 while an injured Baker could not in 2021. Some act like he didn't even have an injury in evaluating his play last season. They never seem happy without a QB controversy in their life.

I think the FO has made their intentions clear. They plan to give Baker the 2022 season to prove whether the 2020 Baker we saw is the real thing. There is no credible evidence he is not. Unless of course some continue to pretend that his injury didn't significantly impact his play negatively in 2021. And you will continue to have those people.

We were one non-call on DPI in GB and one ridiculous DPI call (against us v Chargers) away from possibly winning the division...with a beat up QB throwing to me and Tabber. I think Baker will be fine...here or elsewhere.

j/c

This off-season is hilarious and the legal tampering hasn’t even started.

Didn't the Colts get Wentz off the FA scrap heap? If I'm remembering correctly, good for them.

Jimmy G to Indy to follow...

Uhh no. They gave up a boatload to Philly for him.

They gave up a first and a third for him.

Garoppolo is for sure getting traded. Watson too if the legal stuff is resolved prior to the draft. Anyone else?

Baker?!?!

Everyone, I'm kidding. This is my preemptive "chill-out".

We won’t trade Baker until after we draft our new QB.

So next year if he doesn't play well this year?

He’s not under next contract. So no.

It'll be tough to trade a free agent!

Yes it would be. That's why the confusion since he's already the named starter going into the 2022 season.

Yeah Jimmy G is probably the next domino to fall. And many teams are still in the market. SF is in a pretty nice spot to get some value with multiple suitors.

Toss Baker in the mix and let's getting a bidding war going.

Always believe NFL coaches and front offices in March.

Analytics can pull it off!

remember when a lot of us thought Wentz was that dude?

Wait, let me re-phase that.

If we can’t, then it’s analytics fault!

Pete Carroll is a great example.

With actual evidence as to a rational reason why they are telling the truth, yes. 2020 Baker is all you need to see to believe them. Trying to use an injured 2021 season not to believe them is fools gold.

https://www.azcardinals.com/news/kliff-kingsbury-josh-is-our-guy

If anyone can figure out a way, it's the Harvard boys.

If you or your cohorts would like to make a wager in a feeble attempt to back up your false swagger, PM me.

That too.

Paul DePodesta knew all along.

All the way from San Diego too!

The best part is that Kingsbury didn’t have to lie. The Cardinals had the first pick and everyone knew they were going to take Kyler Murray the second he was hired.

Myles Garrett weeps

This would be less than idea.

And then there is this....



Who knows?

According to Gerry Dulac, not Shaun King.

Money Mitch!

He'd be good depth if we picked him up cheap.

Therapist replaced by Thepredator??

j/c:

So now you have to ask yourself, is losing Clowney thus creating a huge hole to fill the right move or was the money better spent with the franchise tag Berry's slated to spend on part-time TE Njoku the better move. Last year, the Browns paid 6.013M to Njoku on his 5th year option for 36 receptions and 475 yards. If you look deeper and deduct the 7 catch 149 yd explosion against the LAC, the Browns paid $353,706 per game for an average of 1.81 receptions and 20.38 receiving yards. Since this was the best year Njoku has had in the last 3-years, the Browns are basically giving Njoku (under the franchise tag of 10.931M) an 81.7% raise for 1.81 catches per game. Even if Njoku increses his cath production by 100%, the Browns will be paying 10.931M for 3.62 receptions per game.

Clowney signed a 1-year deal worth 8M guaranteed. Berry spread out the guaranteed money over 5-years so the Browns will now have 3.6M in dead cap since it all comes due if and when Clowney leaves. This fan does not know what Clowney is asking for but a 3-year deal for 36M plus what he's already owed would have probably got it done. If Berry had taken the 10.931M he's slated to pay Njoku and moved it to Clowney, Clowney is a relatively cheap resign considering he played 61% of the snaps and had 9 QB sacks.

So now what is the more difficult position for the Browns to fill - DE on a defense with no starting DT's at the moment that must have a pass rush to be successful or a TE who wasn't on the field for even 50% of the teams pass plays in 2021, 2020, or 2019.

So now you have to ask yourself will we ever sign another player?

First off... jeez, Cowboys....


He'll get traded for way more than we'd want to give up. It'd be overkill to compensate for one of our starting tackles possibly being out for first part of the season.

That Zeke contract looks worse and worse by the minute.

j/c...

I'm confused....so why aren't we able to sign a DE or DL?

Because we spent money on another position? Are we broke?


Or what I really think u are trying to insinuate from your previous posts: Kevin Stefanski's offensive playbook will keep us from signing defensive lineman, b/c their targets will be down too.

That's a high profile trade. Hasn't he been injured the past couple of years? Or just this last season?

Just last season.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MackKh00.htm

I should have looked that up myself. Thanks.

I thought he would retire.

No thanks.

I'd give him a tryout. He was a force in 2020 before the injury.

You guys can be such kids sometimes. You know that the post was in reference to spending the money wisely. However, at the end of the day, it might come down to signing just that one more guy whether it's a DE, DL, WR or OL but the Browns will be unable too because they already used up the amount they want to spend including 10.931M on a part time TE that has averaged 30 receptions per year over the last 5 years - not to mention the fact that the guy has performed poorer than Hooper each of the past 2-years. Njoku had one good game in 2021 and was paid over 6M for one good game and to be on the field less than 50% of the time a pass play was run. Then Berry gives the dude an 87% wage increase. That is not using the cap money wisely.

We should be able to get him on the cheap. He'd be a good replacement for Takk, not so much for Clowney.

Tendering Johnson always made the most sense.

Someone is going swoop on him with no compensation attached.

I agree.

A 2nd round tender would have paid him a little over $3 Million - and to be honest, I doubt anyone takes him due to the compensation. Probably too steep $$ for the Browns with Hunt and Chubb here.
Because he went undrafted we don't have original round tender option.

I guess I see where we landed on this - but it feels wrong to be letting that talent walk, which is probably what will happen.

Agreed. Unless its such a great value that the Browns can't pass up, they'll let him walk.

https://twitter.com/Jake_Trotter/status/1502257926047776775

I wonder if Trotter is saying this because he knows something or is he just making a guess based on team need?

It seems like more of a guess than anything.

Because he was undrafted a 2nd round tender has an effect on other tenders and compensation they bring. This may have played into the ROFR tender.

j/c:

He'll be on the move now.

Maybe Shaun King was right!

Sign me up for Watson

Wow. I thought he was done.

If Jordan Schultz is reporting it, it definitely isn't happening. Bummer.

If Watson really ends up in Pittsburgh I'm going to projectile vomit.

Get on the horn, Berry!

My guess is the Carolina Panthers have already offered their 2022 1st round pick, 2023 1st round pick, RB Christian McCaffrey and a 2023 3rd round pick for Watson and a 2022 4th round pick as a starting point. Unless Cleveland is planning on parting with Chubb and a boatload of pick's I don't see them being competitive in the market.

There is also still the matter of Watson's no-trade clause.

Yeah. Carolina is going to go all in.

Mention the bevy of massage parlors in the Warren/Youngstown area and he'll be on the first flight to Cleveland!

I know I'm a dinosaur, but I would have a problem with a lizard being our QB.

j/c:

So you’re saying there’s a chance!

Texans are rumored to want 3 firsts and 3 seconds... or 3 firsts and three good players... Watson is a great talent, but you have to give up a ton to get him.

Yep, and pick up Cooper too

And then you have a QB who is younger and better than Baker Mayfield for the next ten years (at least).

Yeah, my concern is that he is still a creep.

A valid concern.

Seattle just came into a bunch of draft capital the other day. They could be a player in this too.

Watson
Metcalf
Lockett
Fant

what I have been saying. Pete ain't getting any younger. they will be all in on watson.

sell the farm

I'd trade 2 1st, Baker, landry, and a 2nd for Watson. then throw money at the best FA WR and DT on the market.

The problem is where are the Browns going to get the money? Landry is 16M and Baker is 19M. Watson's cap number this year is 40.4M but at a minimum his salary is 35M this year and over 136M the next 4-years. Landry and Baker might be a break even at best and light 5M at the worst. That would leave the Browns with about 15M to address through FA and the draft - 3 WR's, 3 DL, LB's, special teams and depth on the line.

Plus, I hate to keep bringing it up, Watson has a no trade clause and I'm sure he won't agree to come to a team with a run first scheme playing 2 and 3 TE sets. Money is not an object because he's under contract so the "juice" will be if Watson thinks it's a good fit to win and if he has the weapons around him to show off his skill set. Keep in mind Watson is used to throwing for 4,000 plus yards a season. That would be a complete change in the scheme Stefanski has run on two different teams. Just saying..............

We currently have over $18 million in cap space. If we were planning on trading for Watson that means we trade Baker for whatever we can get for him, that would clear his entire salary. That gets us to more than $37 million. Cut Landry, which we are going to do anyway, and we get to $52 million. Designate Hooper a June 1st cut and you get $61 million. Cut Keenum and then we have nearly $70 million in cap space. Sign Ward to extension to reduce his cap this year.

Getting the amount of money needed to get Watson is not that hard.

Actually, after all the moves you suggest, the number would be more like $62M available after subtracting the dead cap costs. Watson is not the only need that needs to be considered. If the Browns add Watson and Cooper for example, your war chest just went from 62M to 5M available (Watson 35M in 2022 and Cooper 22M).

That's 5M left to sign Ward to an extension or fill the roster needs of 2 more WR's, 2 DT's, 1 DE, LB upgrade, backup QB, OL depth and special teams. That's about 10 player openings and if they were all signed to the league minimum for rookie's it would cost the Browns $750,000 x 10 = 7.5M putting the Browns 2.5M over the cap before Ward's deal is even considered. The Browns also would not have a 1st or 2nd round pick for the next 3 years. Wentz was traded for a 3rd this year and a 3rd next year so Mayfield would be similar - you'd lose that 3rd round pick this year though in the trade for Cooper. No matter how you look at it though, a #1 WR is going to cost somewhere between 16M to 20M to secure. Unless of course the Browns can sell Watson on a group of 3rd round or later rookie WR's or a group of FA WR2 and WR 3's in the room all making less than 6M each. That's before the Browns even start thinking about how to address the 3 starting vacancies on the DL.

Realistically, the Browns are not going to sign 10 players in the league rookie minimum with more than half of those positions being starting positions. So the cash is not there realistically fill the roster to a competitive level if the Browns just sign Watson and a legitimate WR1. There's way more holes to fill than just getting Watson and the cash isn't there even with your moves.

jc:

You are wrong.

Prove it!

Have fun!



https://overthecap.com/calculator/

Thanks for proving my point - after all the moves and getting Watson and Cooper - the Browns would have a little more than what I said at about 13M which still isn't enough to get 3 DL starters, 2 additional WR starters, LB upgrade, OL depth, Backup QB, and special teams. Either through the draft (without any 1st or 2nd round picks for the next 3-years), FA, or trades - the Browns will have no less than 5 starting positions open with 13M just to fill them this year and that's not even factoring in signing Ward either.

And you also have a franchise QB.

Teams are able to restructure and sign extensions to get more cap space.

Agent's Take: Asking prices for intriguing players with expiring contracts

LB Von Miller LAR
Contract package: $35 million, two years ($17.5 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $30 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $25 million

DE Jadeveon Clowney CLE
Contract package: $72 million, four years ($18 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $50 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $40 million

LB De'Vondre Campbell GBP
Contract package: $40 million, three years ($13,333,333 per year)
Overall guarantees: $27.5 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $27.5 million

LB Haason Riddick CAR
Contract package: $62 million, four years ($15.5 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $36 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $32 million

DT D,J. Jones SFO
Contract package: $36 million, three years ($12 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $25 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $20 million

WR D.J. Chark JAX
Contract package: $20 million, two years ($10 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $20 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $20 million

WR Christian Kirk ARI
Contract package: $50 million, four years ($12.5 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $37.5 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $25 million

WR Michael Gallup DAL
Contract package: $10 million, 1 year
Overall guarantees: $10 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $10 million

WR Allen Robinson CHI
Contract Package: $60 million, four years ($15 million per year)
Overall guarantees: $45 million
Fully guaranteed at signing: $40 million

I would love to have Clowney back but I feel like we already dodged a bullet with his health last season. $40 million guaranteed is a lot for him.

wait, you're expecting us to sign starters at every position?

Well, the Browns are missing 3 DL starters - the Browns are missing a starting LB, the Browns are missing 3 starting caliber WR's but maybe could get by with DPJ but he has work to do. That's 6 or 7 starters needed no matter how you cut it.

j/c

After the years of grief Browns fans have given the Steelers, and rightfully so, for having a scum bag like Big Ben as their QB, I'll be damned if I am going to be a hypocrite now and welcome Watson to our own team. I guess it's true that people are willing to sell their souls to win.

The only legit argument (imo) is that we're already hypocrites for embracing Hunt. There's no doubt he'd be an upgrade, and I'd expect AB to make it work financially.

The news on Friday is definitely a hurdle removed from in front of Watson, but he's not out of the woods yet (just speaking pragmatically). I don't know for sure how I feel about Watson coming here. The thing I don't like about him is the 22 number. Hunt did something horrible, but has been taking steps to not repeat and has been mostly successful. 22 incidents/victims speaks more to a mindset vs unfortunate lapse in judgement.

And I think that's a huge difference. Hunt paid for his actions to a large extent. He was suspended for eight games and apologized for his actions. Not only that, he played for a fraction of the money he would have made without such an incident. He was even out of football when our FO gave him a chance at redemption. And yes, that number is 22. 22 Women total. I don't see how anyone can claim 22 women are lying while Watson is denying everything and didn't lose a penny. Nah, I don't want him here.

Or we're planning on giving players we've drafted and developed opportunities on the DL (Elliott and Togiai) and are looking more for affordable depth there. Maybe they plan on using Njoku in the slot and they are comfortable with Schwartz being the other receiver opposite DPJ.

They probably plan on JOK and Phillips playing LB and have Takitaki for the rare occasions they'll use 3.

Suddenly we only need one DE starter and maybe a WR. We've got draft picks to use as well and it looks like there are good players going to be available at those positions. We can restructure contracts, like every other team, if we need to.

Yep. Magic Eight Ball says "not likely" when asked if Clowney will be healthy in 2022. He seems like he always has a lot of nagging injuries and is more than happy to be on the sideline while he's healing.

I was really surprised and happy how much Clowney played last year. I was expecting he would be out most of the year with some kind of injury. Maybe he just had a healthy year, maybe it was being on a one year contract as the reason he played more.

I'd love to see Clowney come back, on a 2 year type deal. Maybe 3 if it benefits us on the third year.

Hunt now a trade candidate to free up much needed cap.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kareem-hunt-trade-candidate-d-130329371.html

Figured as much. writing was on the wall with the tendering of D. Johnson.

If we had tendered Johnson at a higher level this would be more believable.

i think with us seeing more of D'ernest during the back half of the season made Hunt expendable.

Keenum will be let go and would not be surprised if Tretter is let go.

Yeah I'm hoping Keenum and his contract is dumped, would rather see Mariota or Trubisky there to push Baker.

If either one of those could remotely do well enough to push Baker, then we just need to release Baker right now because they're both barely better than journeyman backups.

I feel like this source is coming from the Browns' camp to manufacture more demand.

BUT THEY SAID MAYFIELD WAS THE STARTER!?!?

Yeah, they couldn't possibly be looking at current veterans to play back-up. The narrative around here gets pretty crazy sometimes.

So you didn’t click the link?

Yes I did. It seems you put your eggs into the "rumblings" and "probably" basket.

You know all too well how much BS and false information gets put out this time of year. The best even this guy could do was use "rumblings and probably" to put a preface on things.

But then when your agenda is clear, grasping at straws is the logical progression of things.

My agenda of saying, the entire off-season, that Baker is most likely our QB in 2022?

Also, the point of saying, “BUT THEY SAID MAYFIELD WAS THE STARTER!?!?” is to point out how many lies are going around this time of year.

He is... unless there's a better option... that's the way it should be... if you can improve any position why wouldn't you?

That’s been my point the whole off-season.

Are you now trying to claim you have been an advocate of Baker being the starter this coming season and that you have been supporting that? Or is it your claim you felt that would be the outcome? Because those two things are quite different.

if we stick with Baker - which is most likely- please dont bring any bums like Mariota or Trubisky here. keep Case and lets sure up the depth on offense and ride out.

I have thought the most likely outcome was the Baker would be the starter in 2022. I think the team should explore better options (which it seems they are doing).

For that to be true, one would have to treat a season where he played with a torn labrum as a part of his body of work. That's disingenuous at best. I think you mean there are "rumbles" that's what the team is doing.

It’s fine if you don’t want to trust what people online are saying. I have no problem with that. When the right people are saying stuff, I listen.

I've watched the same thing happen year after year. False rumors and just BS being repeated. Both teams and player agents have a lot of incentive to spread such rumors. At this time of the year it's very difficult to figure out who "the right people" are. All of them want to get the scoop. When MKC jumps on the bandwagon of what you consider the right people, color me skeptical.

MKC jumps on every report. She is irrelevant.

I haven't seen anyone who is relevant state it as a fact either. They're always putting a preface on it. For the most part even they are reporting it as a rumor. ie.... "I've heard", "sources are saying" or "There are rumblings". I believe they are hearing it as well. So in actuality, it seems I agree with them more than you do for the most part.

Agree...I think there's enough there that the browns are indeed inquiring about Watson, but I'd be extremely surprised if we actually traded for him... his price tag is going to be pretty high and he has his option of where he wants to go...

Which "right people" are saying the Browns are desperate to sign Watson --- and/or are saying the FO is desperately trying to move on from Baker? I've missed it.

No one, that I’ve seen, has said the Browns are desperate to move on from Baker. There are several people that I trust that have said the Browns are interested in Watson.

I'd like to know how many DTs want Watson? Saw a random fan poll on Twitter that had 2/3s vote against it. No idea if that holds true in our fan base, but would like to know or see more polls.

Who?

Yes - who ?

And to be fair - I think the Browns should be interested in signing or trading for every single QB they think is better than Baker in the NFL. That would be called due diligence. It would not mean much other than them doing their job. Your list is (way) longer than mine - but I bet they'd be interested in at least a dozen other QB's. Watson 'might' be somewhat attainable. That does not mean they are interested in the asking price.

details of the deal

This.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about this. They are committed to Baker, but not to the point where they'll turn down an opportunity to improve a position. Browns kicked the tires on a number of vet QBs, and put in an offer for Watson. Everything still holds true (they still like Baker, they think they need to improve the backup spot (my guess), and Watson is a young 3x Pro Bowler that is going to another team). If certain reports are true, the Browns offer was considered 'weak'. I think this all supports the above point.

There's no actual evidence they put in an offer for Watson.