This is not about anything other than the football part of the Watson deal.

The Texans got three first round picks. 2023 third rounder. 2024 fourth rounder

Browns get Watson and a 2024 fifth rounder.

Watson receives a five year guaranteed contract for $230.

This the first time a football contract is fully guaranteed for the full term of the contract that I am aware of.

The money closed the deal. If I were a player I would want a guaranteed deal.

From the owner's perspective he basically bought his services for five years. You enter a deal. You expect to pay. In this case that money is protected.

The Browns this year lose one draft pick. The way the money is structured they still have money to spend this year if they choose.

In essence Watson is their first round pick. IMO from the pure football side this is a great deal. We gave up no starters. The first rounders should be expected to be late in the first round. So the Texans have five draft picks. The Browns a player and a draft pick.

The Browns before the draft and other free agents that could be signed have a very good team.

Core talent: Watson, Myles, Ward, Bitonio, Teller, Chubb, Hunt, Cooper, JOK, Newsome, Willis, Delpit, (Conklin, Greedy, Johnson).

All of these players are bonafide talents. The rest of the current roster are at least average.

The Browns are a team that can compete with any NFL team.

The season will determine how good. One factor remaining the availability of Watson?

If others wish to continue to discuss the ethical questions involved please do so on a different thread.

If it’s 4-6 games we can make the season work. I’m sure the FO assumed there’s a chance he’s gone for the season. But based on pass cases (Ben, Elliot) 4-6 games is most likely.

I think for this season, it’s really gonna come down to how soft or tough our schedule is the first 6 weeks, and also where our bye week is during the season. When does the schedules officially come out?

Taking a hard look at the Deshaun Watson deal from both sides – Terry’s Talkin’ Browns
Updated: Mar. 19, 2022, 3:01 p.m.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...rom-both-sides-terrys-talkin-browns.html


By Terry Pluto, cleveland.com
WHY I DON’T LIKE THE DESHAUN WATSON DEAL

I wrote a passionate column Friday after the trade was made, ripping the Browns for the deal. A day later, I still don’t like it for several reasons:

1. The Browns just made Deshaun Watson the NFL’s highest-paid player in terms of guaranteed money. Guaranteed cash is all that counts. Watson’s new five-year, $230 million deal is fully guaranteed.

2. Not only is it the richest guaranteed deal ever, no one else is close. The next highest is the Packers’ Aaron Rodgers with $150 million guaranteed.

3. The Browns gave all that money to a player who sat out last season due to legal problems. And to a player who is still facing civil suits from 22 women. And to a player who likely will be suspended for some games in 2022.

4. Even the Watson camp is expecting a suspension. That’s why his contract begins with an immediate $45 million signing bonus. His salary for 2022 is $1 million. Why do that? If he’s suspended, it only comes from the $1 million salary. That’s about $57,000 per game – according to cleveland.com’s Mary Kay Cabot.

5. I wonder how the NFL views that, an obvious move to work around the pain of a possible suspension. The league can’t be happy. The Browns and Watson now wait for what comes next from the NFL.

6. Watson’s annual salary is $46 million. It’s $1 million more than the average salary of the Chiefs’ Patrick Mahomes ($45 million). Then come the Bills ‘ Josh Allen and the Cowboys’ Dak Prescott at $40 million. Rodgers is No. 1 at $50 million.

7. On Sept. 5, 2020, Watson signed a four-year, $156 million extension with Houston that included a no-trade clause. He had three years left on that contract, along with the no-trade clause. Watson’s agent convinced the Browns to rip up that deal.

8. Watson’s agent should be agent of the year for pulling this off. These meetings should have been about Watson explaining his side of the charges against him. Certainly, that was a part of it. But it appears it was mostly about Cleveland, Carolina, Atlanta and New Orleans selling themselves to Watson – asking what it would take for him to waive his no-trade clause. It was a massive contract renegotiation.

9. Some fans have asked how this is different from the Browns signing Kareem Hunt. I was against that at the time. But from a business point of view, it was easy. Hunt had been released. He had no leverage. He signed a cheap contract with few guaranteed dollars. Even his two-year $13 million extension contains clauses for behavior, etc.

10. The Browns also had to send three first-round picks to Houston in the trade. The last time a team traded three first-rounders for a player was in 1989, Minnesota doing it to pick up Herschel Walker from Dallas. Worked well for Dallas, not for Minnesota. To be fair, six total picks were traded to Dallas along with several other players – more than the Browns gave to Houston.

11. The Browns will not have first-round picks in 2022, 2023 and 2024. First-round picks are precious because it gives a team a chance to draft possible starters/even future Pro Bowl players on salary-cap-friendly rookie contracts.

12. The first year (2022) of Watson’s contract counts only $10 million on the salary cap. After that, it gobbles up cap space. This is not baseball (no cap) or the NBA (soft cap). You have to manage your salary cap in the NFL or get in trouble with assembling a roster. Rookie contracts help -- that’s why the combination of huge dollars for Watson and the loss of first-rounders is difficult to manage.

13. There will be painful public-relations fallout from the deal. This is one of the biggest/most expensive trades in NFL history that also comes with a lot of moral question marks and problems – at least in my mind.

A CONTRARY VOICE

Here is an email from Rudy Wachtler:

“All you writers are doing your best to throw a wet blanket on this deal. How many of them enjoyed the Super Bowl halftime show, loved the Kobe Bryant movie, danced to Michael Jackson, watched 70,000 teary-eyed fans at Pittsburgh’s fond farewell to Ben Roethlisbeger? How about Robert Kraft?

“Do you prefer another decade of football hopelessness trying to compete with these guys: Mahomes, Herbert, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, and Wilson? How do we even make the playoffs let alone compete for a Super Bowl?

“We now have five or 10 years of competitive football in Cleveland. Let’s not whine about it. The world is not a perfect place. It is full of bad guys that we have to live with. All these guys are paid mercenaries anyway; mostly from somewhere else. Do we root for them? Maybe we root for the billionaire owners? No, we root for winning football games in Cleveland.”

WHY THE BROWNS DID IT

I checked with some NFL sources about why the Browns made this move, and learned this:

1. They are sick of losing. They are sick of not having a QB. And by the end, they were pretty sick of Baker Mayfield – although they’ll never say that. It’s rare a QB at Watson’s age and ability becomes available.

2. Watson was not charged with any crime, after a grand jury hearing. The Browns investigated the civil charges. They have a “comfort level” with those in terms of being willing to add Watson to the team as he deals with the civil charges. They talked to people at Clemson and Houston – including females – about Watson. They had been vetting him for quite a while.

3. Before the charges arose, Watson had a sparkling reputation at Clemson and in his first four years with Houston. He was known as a strong leader, a community guy, a good representative of his various teams.

4. The Browns believe that leadership and other positive traits will prevail, and Watson has learned from this situation. They know he could be suspended for part of 2022. They view this deal as a long-term commitment. They will endure with the present fallout because they believe things will work out.

5. Watson is entering his prime at the age of 26. He suffered an ACL knee injury in 2017, but has been healthy ever since. For his career, he has completed 67.8% of his passes. That’s the best in NFL history for someone who has thrown at least 1,500 passes. They consider him a top-five QB.

6. Watson has thrown 104 TD passes compared to 36 interceptions. The Browns have not had a QB like him since Bernie Kosar in the late 1980s. He joins a team built to win now, with Kareem Hunt and Nick Chubb in the backfield, new receiver Amari Cooper and a good offensive line. The defense also should be a top 10 unit.

7. The Browns know they were not his first choice, or else why would he originally turn them down? But they also know it’s rare to have a chance at the QB at this stage of his career. So they were willing to give him the richest guaranteed contract in NFL history along with sending the three first-round picks to Houston.

8. Watson’s agent let it be known that his client wanted a new contract or he would not waive the no-trade clause. All the teams were talking about a new deal, not just the Browns.

9. Denver made a megatrade for Russell Wilson. Last year, the Rams traded two first-rounders and Jared Goff to Detroit for Matt Stafford – and won a Super Bowl. It was time to make a bold move. If you do that, it should be for a guy who plays the most important position on the field.

10. Coach Kevin Stefanski now has a mobile, smart QB who can run his offense and other types of offenses. If Stefanski can go 11-5 and the Browns beat Pittsburgh in the playoffs with Mayfield in 2020, the ceiling should be much higher with Watson.

11. They had been talking about a way to get Watson for months. This was their “Plan A.” They were determined to make it happen and knew the price would be high. GM Andrew Berry had developed a relationship with Watson’s agents.

12. The Browns know there will be salary-cap and draft consequences for the Watson deal, but it’s worth it to take a chance at a possible franchise-changing QB.

And that’s the part we don’t talk about much.

Stefanski is probably foaming at the mouth thinking about the scheme he can run with Watson, especially with our O line and running backs. Every defense has to respect watson’s ability to take off, and the fact that he’s accurate within the pocket as well as outside.

The PA game is gonna be devastating for our opponents.

You do this deal every time for a top 5 QB.

Salary cap will explode beginning next year with the new TV deal and will continue to climb every year afterwards. Two or three years from now the dollar number won't seem so large.

No doubt. Stefanski has never had the luxury of calling plays with a QB this talented. He's probably like a kid at Christmas drawing up new plays as we speak.

I guess my question is how much does Stefanski still plan on using 3TE sets? Was that a QB thing or a fixture of his offense? Do we still use the scheme if we don’t find a true #2? Or does Stefanski think DPJ can fill that role?

I’m guessing with the signing of our new ST returner, Schwartz is gonna play exclusively offense now. Does he line up on the outside, do with move DPJ inside?

I think Jakeem grant was brought in as more than a kick returner. I think he is a better receiver than Schwartz at this point. He isn't big, but there are a lot of undersized receivers in the league.

He has that zippeite doo da in his step that Schwartz lacks. His speed is just a fraction off Schwartz.

do you think he can still develop to something far better than what we've seen last season?

This is a good point about the schedule. Let’s hope that the NFL does us a favor by backloading the AFCN schedule again

Someone pointed out that the 9ers traded 3 firsts in order to draft Trey Lance. If true, our deal for Watson was actually a steal.

Baker will bring back a pick, and (even I've led the "how dare you" brigade) a Hunt trade will also mitigate a little of the draft capital we spent. Trading Hunt makes far more sense now. Between us throwing more and having a dual-threat at QB, I don't see enough carries for 2 feature backs. It makes more sense to roll with Johnson and Felton as the backups.

I'd like for us to find a way to still grab 1-2 of the good receivers in this draft. I'm not sure we can afford to keep rolling with a FA WR room. That group needs to get younger and cheaper over the next 2 offseasons.

I think Grant and Swartz are here to spread the field. In 11-personnel, you can't single cover Cooper. One of these receivers will always have one guy covering him. Speed kills. Plus you have a TE underneath and Chubb in the backfield.

Take Cooper out and switch to a 12-personnel. TEs underneath and two speed-receivers on the outside. Watson won't need superstar receivers.

This will become a potent offense.

I love the deal. Being a losing team for so many years involving the fans, players, coaches and ownership.

I see great moves being done by AB to make this team do what everyone wants it to do...

win ! win ! win !

Not giving up a player, still possibly signing Clowney also the chance to have Landry back.

Cutting the ones most expected.

Trading Keenum and picking up Brisset is a solid move.

With Stefanskis scheme Amari will be solid enough to spread the field. Not really sure the scheme needs a number one, just a really good number two .

This move still has the Browns with plenty of choices in the draft.

Seriously , the best number one pick so far has been Myles. (none other then Joe Thomas )

Browns drafts have been okay.

If trading for DW gives the Browns more opportunities to add to the D then so be it.

From a pure football view. This puts the Browns with a much needed Franchise QB for sometime

And do not reply to me any other thing then a football view. keep your personal character views to yourselves.

Yeah, I don't think anybody should be condemning another fan for how they feel. NONE of us really expected this trade and people need time to process. I'm not in the DW camp unless he gets cleared, but I'm happy for guys like you that like it from jump. Personally, I'm not convinced that he's that much better than Baker. But I haven't watched a lot of him playing yet either. So right now, I'll wait to see how it all pans out. I like the other moves, bringing guys in. I don't get letting Tretter go at this point, but Berry has done a good job, so I trust he'll plug the holes.

the Tretter thing was kind of talked about all last season, the money point of it. That was not a surprise.

The DW thing. This thread is about the deal. And if you can look at he deal part, put your emotions away for just this one thread, it may look like a pretty good thing.

DW got cleared of any crimes by a grand jury

True, but he's also nowhere near out of the woods. He's got the civil lawsuits to deal with, and those have a much lower bar. We are going to hear more details about the allegations and his behavior. The NFL will also come around for their pound of flesh, as well.

By itself, the deal is actually pretty good. The 49ers spent 3 1sts and a third to move up and select Trey Lance. That comparison alone could legitimize this deal (they sat Trey Lance his first year vs Watson being a established). Browns will move Baker to further mitigate the loss of picks (at least this year). Berry has put a bit of extra stress on his drafts because we desperately need young (translation: cheap) talent... especially at WR and DLine. The loss of firsts makes addressing that harder; but if this FO has proven anything, then it's the phrase "where there's a will there's a way".

As I said earlier, from a deal standpoint it is a good deal. You pointed out the Lance trade and that is a good point. Three #1 picks is now pretty much the standard to get a top Rookie prospect. We did it with 3 and some fairly meaningless change to get an established QB with plenty of room to add a few more years if desired.

I count the player as this years draft pick, so to me, two #1 picks was the premium. We have an extra 3rd rounder due to the FO executive the Vikings hired, so we aren't at a total loss thee, and swapping a 4th for a 5th isn't much of a loss.

As for this years draft, right now our biggest weakness looks to be interior defensive linemen. This is a good year for interior D linemen. Also in our favor is in most years, interior D linemen don't usually god high in the first round. Just the way positions are favored, by the time edge rushers, OT's, CB's WR, and QBs are picked over in the 1st round, most of your interior D linemen don't start exiting the board until the late 1st, and the bulk go in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. That plays in our favor.

Our front office is strong in all aspects. I don't have any doubt that we will be able to navigate the next several years without a 1st rounder just fine. We are strong at evaluating players, we are strong in planning, and we have a cap that is going to increase and a team that looks like the place to be, so free agency will be an active method of gaining talent.

If Watson is as good as people think he is. At minimum top 5 QB.
If Watson doesn't get suspended for more than 8-9 games.
If Watson doesn't flake out like he flaked out on Houston.
If Watson isn't a prima dona as is claimed in many articles.
If Watson can play in bad/cold weather and not wet the bed which is what I saw last time I remember him in cold weather.
If Stefanski uses his abilities to the max instead of simply plugin him to a largely similar offensive philosophy which is overwhelmingly conservative with the exception of a tnecancy to get cute and run gadget plays are key moments.

Then the deal will have been a win. Three 1st rounders would be a reasonable price to pay.

When the season begins and the first game starts.

I will be watching the game. Just like all fans who watch their teams. You want to win the game.

As each game is played that is why we watch.

We can all feel however we want about Watson the person or for that matter any player.

"Pure football" Watson will give the Browns a much better chance to win games.

I thought I kept all opinion about non-football stuff out of my post? Did you get a different take away?

Yes you did and I did mean to imply differently.

Watson IMO will give the Browns a chance to compete with the other teams who have top five qb's.

This is a quote from PFF:

"That’s why I’m ready to make the argument that Deshaun Watson was not only the best quarterback of 2020, but also that he had the best season of the past 15 years — and maybe ever."

Watson has played three years. All three years he was voted to the Pro Bowl.

He will do his part.

I'm happy that you started this tread...as at some point we have to stop talking about Baker - and Watson to a certain degree - and set our sites on the team and its future.

We have gone "all-in" right now. The investment in $$$, draft capital and credibility only makes sense if the FO thinks we have a window of opportunity that we could not delay in crawling through. I think that to be a huge mistake - not because of either QB but - because of what surrounds the QB position. We have ??? all over the place - including those with either QB. I'll get to that later.

Baker might not (have been) be "good-enough" or healed-up enough...Watson might get suspended for darn near 1/2 the season. But 2022 will be looking like a "tank" season if Watson gets the 6-8 game suspension. (Inadvertently tanking for Houston to get a great, extra #1 pick...Brissett isn't leading any team to a winning stretch.) If Watson gets 8 games, we made a monumental commitment to the "window" and simultaneously tossed year #1 out the window...that window closes a bit as contracts burn another year, players get older, Watson's cap hit grows (with MGs) and fans get more impatient.

The $$$ commitment is beyond substantial...forget the $$$ amount though...that bogey is GUARANTEED. We are tied to DW for the next 5 years - and year #1 might just be a tank year. And it is far from just the $$$ commitment...

Three 1sts...two 3rds...a 4th. Wow...just...wow. It is obvious that the FO did not want to run it back with Baker another year. They didn't want to waste another year on a guy who they don't believe in. No problem...maybe they are correct. Yet if Watson gets a season-crushing, 6-8 game suspension (remember, we were only a win or two from the division championship last year), we are STILL wasting another year. And significant draft capital was/is also wasted.

The hindsight projection of running it back with Baker in '22 on the CHANCE he really can be the guy in what is likely to now STILL be a wasted year is not so outrageous....then pile on the $$$ and the draft capital and it's hard not to shake one's head over that decision.

While I'm at with the hindsight projection, did the FO consider that with the likelihood that '22 is likely a wasted year anyway, could they have deployed something less than three 1sts...two 3rds...a 4th to get "their" guy in the '23 draft? My first thought is "no" the window is now...but year #1 of the DW window is already (IMO) shut...and the $$$ commitment is GUARANTEED.

Credibility with the fans is always fickle and fungible. There are bad actors in any profession. I'm not getting on a soapbox here about the allegations against DW. He's not going to cause me to quit being a fan. I'm not happy about it, but I can't change it. Credibility with other vets (aka potential free agents) is another "item". The FO has done a great job in recent years by "accommodating" guys who they don't want anymore (or can no longer have). But...love him or hate him...they did Baker dirty. Aging, serviceable vets aren't going to overlook that.

The Broncos swung for the fences with Wilson. Their window is NOW. They have weapons (real ones) and a stout defense. They don't have a vaunted OLine...but neither do we except on paper and IF several things fall juuuust right (we have terrific Guards and good guys elsewhere...but nothing special outside the Gs). Our window still has serious issues at WR, DT, DE - we need (4) new starters right there...(4) with no 1st Rd picks for (3) seasons to snag that top DE cornerstone-type guy.

We were a game or two from winning the division last year. Our division-leader went to the SB and we beat them twice - once with starters playing and once with backups playing. The move for Watson can only be described as being "ALL-IN"...expectations are - and should be - ridiculously high...yet year #1 is likely a waste. There is a lot to unwind in this thing...and that's without regard to the actual play of either QB.

You make good points.

However, there maybe a few things to take into consideration.

$230 guaranteed. Personally I have no problem with that. Watson is 26 years old. His numbers and play speak for themselves.
That is $46 per year. First year is a cap move.

The money closed the deal. We don't land him without that money that at least one other team was willing to match.

You make this type investment for a 26 year old qb with his skills why not? You expect five years at least.

Draft picks. Let's look at that. First we did not give up a player on the roster which has been hand built under Berry. That is important.

The three first rounders was the price to open the door and make a bid. All the teams that bid on him made that commitment at least.

The roster with DW is built to win right now even with Brissett playing. Brisset will benefit with our run game and the added receivers. We have a top five defense.

We should at minimum expect a playoff team. If you agree with that then the first rounders will be late first rounders.
Watson is this years first rounder and for the most part we have full draft strength.

The next two first rounders. QB's, pass rushers, tackles, corners, are the premium priority positions. The first round (depending on the class) can go five or six players deep into those positions in the first round.

If you are set for three years at those positions as the Browns are. You can load up with players at positions outside of the premium position after the first round. You are then working in position groups where maybe you are in position depth starting with the second or third best players.

DW and Brissett with the additions made at receiver will be more dynamic and diverse from a scheme perspective.

From a pure football perspective the roster is much improved and gives the team a higher probability of success right away.

We agree. I also expect a playoff team, but could see possibly missing this year. If we have to play Brissett for an extended period we might fall a game or so short.

I am not saying we will, but I do see that as a possibility. No doubt he should(or better) be better than Case. How much better he is over a injured Baker...I am not sure he is, but some things have been settled, so we can rely more on the run game.

In any event, we are in a good position over the next several years. The loss of the 1st rounds isn't going to hurt much in the shorter term, but they may say 5-6 years down the road.

But, lot's can happen between now and then.

I don't know if I would say we have a top 5 defense. We were 13th by football outsiders' DVOA metric. link That feels like a pretty fair ranking for last year to me.

Unfortunately, we've lost 3/4 of our starters on the defensive line. I'll feel a lot better about the defense if we get Clowney back and add a potential starting DT or two.

Even advanced metrics may not be the most reliable way to gauge the team's performance. Pro Football Focus currently has Cleveland with the fifth-highest-graded defense in the NFL, eighth against the run, and fifth against the pass. Dec 16, 2021

Bone...I'd like to say that I admire your enthusiasm and optimism...it's impressive...and even in a way as to not seem overly homer-ish. You make your points. Your tracking of JOK last draft was legendary. I also want to say that what I am about to post is in no way a disagreement with you in this thread...but a little more perspective on my concerns:

My fear with being "tied" to DW isn't about his age nor his likely performance. It's about him getting injured (see Baker) or getting into more legal troubles (see DW). Our OL needs a few things to fall just right to get back to being at least better-than-not-bad. One of those gets sideways and DW's health could be in jeopardy (see backup T's, starting RT recovery and sophomore-slump of LT).

Our defense today has major, major issues/holes on the DL. I think we are fine behind the DL...but needing (3) new DL starters this late into free agency and with no 1st Rd pick leaves us unlikely to land a difference-maker ion the DL outside of Clowney...IF he comes back.

I sincerely hope that your enthusiasm and optimism is warranted...maybe like it was with JOK? One can hope.

our defense was good enough to get us to the SB.

i think posters correctly brought up the AFC/NFC title match and SB game talking about how the defenses weren't all that impressive. our defense would've held its own again the bengals and Rams.

i'd feel a lot better about our offense ability to keep up if we got back Landry. right now Amari cooper makes our WR group decent. DPJ needs to be consistent (injured), Schwartz....man i dunno. but if we get Juice back, we go from decent to good. while not great, we dont need them to be great because of our rushing attack. we're far more balanced on offense talent wise than the Rams and Bengals, with a better O line and TE's.

im wondering whats taking so long for Clowney to sign. does he think he can get more somewhere else? waiting for the cap situation with Baker to clear up? we can get depth at DT in the draft, but i would like us to grab another LB. i understand Walker is a good locker room guy and leader, but dude was kinda slow on the field.

Landry would be a big help. It's obvious that a combination of Cooper and DPJ isn't enough. All one needs to do is look at the Texans 2020 starting WR's to see it.

On one side he had Brandon Cooks. 81 catches for 1150 yards and 6td's. On the other side he had Will Fuller 53 catches for 879 td's and 8td's.

Anyone trying to convince themselves that DPJ is a Will Fuller or Brandon Cooks have to be doing mental gymnastics. And even after having said all of that, Landry is more of a slot WR than a consistent outside threat.

If it at all includes an average over the year, then I'd say that ranking is low. We struggled out the gate and eventually figured things out. I would hope we could (more or less) pick up where we left off at the end of the year, so long as holes (DE and DT) are filled by end of off-season.

I agree with PEEN, it is easy to see how we miss the playoffs in 2022. Which would suck, because that cuts our window with team intact from 2-3 years down to 1-2 years.

I'm guessing he is suspended 8-10 games. Look at the AFC...

7 playoff spots, 10+ legitimate contenders for them:

Bills, Bengals, Ravens, Browns, Titans, Colts, Chiefs, Chargers, Raiders, Broncos (Pats?, Dolphins?, Steelers?)

No one is going 14-2 this year, but the competition to get to 11 or 12 will be significant. Are we certain we could do that with half our games (or more) under Brissett? I'm not .

Thanks Willie. I appreciate good discussion.

Injury you can not factor. It is a risk for every position and is random.

We have a few defensive holes to fill. However, free agency is not over and we may address some of that.

If we sign Clowney or trade for a edge player I think we will be fine. We have Elliot, Togiai, and added Taven Bryan.

In the second round we should have a shot at Perrion Winfrey who can play more than a single gap and can rush.

IMO Berry will add guys like he did last year on one year deals at IDL.

We traded for Chase Winovich. He has upside as a pass rusher. Takk may return? I would not rule out Vernon if he passes a physical.

In 2020 we made a run a won a playoff game. Looking back at that roster one can see how flawed it was. Baker played well.
The OL had injuries, and covid. The defensive secondary was bad. Really bad. The linebackers were poor.

Right now I would take Ward, Newsome, Greedy and Hill over any team. Delpit made significant progress over the season. JJ is a good safety. LeCounte will get some reps.

We are good at linebacker - Phillips, JOK, Taki, Walker, Fields.

People around football will find about JOK. He scratched the surface last year. Had some corrections to learn. Had some minor health issues.

Look forward to watching JOK this year. He will play a huge role and become the leader of the defense. He has the talent and the mind.

I am optimistic.

I was last year as well. However, many things went down last year that were not predictable. Baker's injury for one. The whole OBJ affair.
The year went sideways. It happens. But to begin the year we had the roster. We just did not finish with that roster.

I can't disagree enough with that...but as of today...we have much less talent than we did last year.

i think posters correctly brought up the AFC/NFC title match and SB game talking about how the defenses weren't all that impressive. our defense would've held its own again the bengals and Rams.


We aren't even in their orbit.

The Bengals #1 WR had more or nearly-equal YAC than did our #1 stat WR had in TOTAL yards. Mixon was statistically the 3rd best RB in the NFL...despite the BS claim that their OL was trash. Usumoah is better than ANY TE we've had in decades (now gone...but they picked up Hayden Hurst...who I would take over Njoku or Bryant.) At least we NOW have a WR who could see the field for them.

The Rams have Jefferson and now Robinson and have Higbee (who I would also take over our potentials) and won the SB. We can't sniff their butts as of today.


My hope is that we've told him the deal and he wants the deal...he just needs to be his usual patient self until we free up Bakers $$$ from the cap.

We are ALL-IN...with a team that needs a TON more to be one just a QB away from getting after the Ring. (Ton = (4) new starters.)

I can't see how you think we need a "ton" of help. Last year the team constantly played with starters missing on both sides of the ball. If they can stay healthy, and not have the covid problem of guys being sat for a week just for contact, I believe they are good enough to do the job.

I also think the offensive woes, which also included covid protocols, injuries at key positions, and poor QB play, played a part in the defense struggling at times. There were many games where the were on the field way to long due to three and outs and turnovers.

The Dline was a weakness except for the DEs according to many. So if replaced with even equal talent, they should be alright. Signing Clowney would be huge, but if they can't, they just need to pick up someone who is capable, not necessarily a star. The draft is deep on the DT spot. I think they will be fine.

j/c:

I think the Browns are a talented team. I did not want Stefanski as a HC, but he has proven to be excellent in regards to scheme and is a very good play caller. I loved Dorsey and it irked me that Depo backstabbed him, but Berry has done a very good job.

I think we have some things going for us.

--QB: Watson is a gigantic upgrade over Baker. Both on the field and in the locker room.

--OL: We may have the best OL in football. Certainly top three. It was unfair that so many folks blamed the OL when our qb held the ball so long and panicked under pressure.

--We have three excellent RBs.

--Cooper is a good WR and DPJ can be a good third WR.

--We have very good corners.

--Myles is excellent.

Okay, but not great.

--Linebackers. JOK is a very good player. Smith is underrated.

--TEs are okay.

--Safeties are average.

Concerns:

--We need another WR. It really, really hurts that we lost OBJ and Juice. They would have flourished w/Watson.

--I don't like letting Tretter walk. He was the brains of the OL.

--The punter and place kicker worry me.

Overall, I think we have the makings of a very good team that should have a better culture w/the addition of Watson and departure of Baker. However, the AFC is freaking loaded. Josh Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurbert, R. Wilson, Lamar. And most of those teams have added key pieces. If we were in the NFC, we would be a lock for the playoffs and maybe the favorite. But man, the AFC is really tough.

I agree with everything you have stated here, as usual lol.

I like the Brisset signing as well. It gives Stefanski the opportunity to unveil a new offense designed around Watson, if he is indeed suspended, with someone that has a similar style (RPO's, etc)

I define needing (4) starters as a ton - make it (5) if Conklin is delayed in his comeback...if he comes back...and (4) if we re-sign Clowney. Three "Ifs" there. I underlined parts of your post ^ as I think it highlights the issue...realizing/admitting that I picked and chose there...not trying to be cute.

I don't recollect reading anywhere that DT is "deep" in this draft...but I hope you are correct as we need (2). We have a 2nd and two 3rds where we "might" get an impact guy...overall though we need at least (4) new starters and free agency is down to the mid tier and lower guys other than Clowney.

FWIW...I don't disagree with your comments on last year...I'm just weary of re-hashing it because I can't change it and I'm left with hoping it won't roll forward.

I think we're covered on the Conklin side, as we brought back Hubbard. He's very adequate to fill in in the short term. We're right back in trouble if guys go down early again, though (like last year).

Just the DTs from Georgia make it deep. I have read many pieces that say a good DT will be available for us in the second round. Reciever is looked at the same way.

As I said before, I hope you are correct.

Football wise I'm very happy with the deal. I have always been a Browns fan and not a Player fan. I will not hide the fact I liked Baker a lot but I won't debate this for one reason. HE IS NO LONGER A BROWN he is not my QB. I always liked Watson and thought well of him as I really didn't get into his legal problems but as a QB I thought he was excellent.

Stefanski became obvious to me that he did not like Baker as his QB, I even made a thread about that. But he made the best out of it. The 3 TE run game is Stefanski's scheme. Will he all of a sudden abandon it and go full spread? I don't think so. Actually our best draft pick available at #44 just might be Trey McBride that will be interesting. We got rid of Hooper who I didn't like much. I thought the kid Harrison was playing better, we have kept a young Njoku if we add McBride we got a pretty talented TE crew who could make up for the lack of WR talent here.

Very important was our acquisition of Jakeem Grant. I think a big part of Ski's O is the use of a Jett motion - we needed a viable threat as Landry had old legs but he knew how to run it. Grant has fresh legs and combined with our running attack of Chubb and Hunt the Jett sweep would become a threat to defenses and they would need to prepare for that - add in now the talents of Watson with play action as well as stretching the field horizontal and hopefully Vertical with DPJ, Amari or Njoku. McBride could become that beast also that I covet for the team. I hope Ski is creative and make us the greatest show in the NFL.

Sadly I fear the worst will happen with Watson and his legal matters. Its part of the Modell curse I guess.

Nathan Zegura said the other day on CBD to expect Stefanski to run a lot of 11 personnel packages this upcoming season and far less 13 personnel packages. That's coming straight from Cleveland Browns state run radio.

Hey Vers, you've made a couple references to Watson in the locker room. I really don't know much about his "leadership" and wasn't really sure if you were just speaking to the fact that it would (by definition) be a huge upgrade over Baker.

I was gonna just ask you, as you may know, but didn't want to sound snarky.

Google is a b*%ch as I imagine that even if you searched "Deshaun Watson chicken noodle soup and crayons", the first twenty pages would still be about allegations.


Finally ran across this:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2858342-deshaun-watson-has-no-off-switch

It's a pretty long piece, so I just grabbed a few excerpts about work ethic and leadership, starting with this viral tweet after a tough loss in which he missed a couple deep passes that could have secured a win...






WORK ETHIC:

Seconds after the presser, he asked a Texans official to contact Avery to get him to the stadium. Avery has worked with Watson since his junior year of high school and typically flies into Houston every Sunday, gives Watson his notes to study, leads him through a swim workout Monday and watches film with him on Tuesday. This day, however, Watson wanted Avery here ASAP because he was consumed by a disgusted "achy feel." A "very, very ... hard feeling," he says.


So Watson rewatched every single snap of a game he had just played in, then hit the field.

Avery wasn't even sure if this was the best thing for Watson but didn't ask questions.

Watson grabbed his cleats and a couple footballs and worked on the exact post route he missed from the same yard line for an hour. The clock ticked past 8 p.m. The diagnosis? He was moving a tick too much on those throws. He could've "gotten on base" better, Avery says. The throw to Will Fuller was six inches from a touchdown, from a win.

"Time waits for no man," Watson says. "I have to correct that now."

The next game, Watson completed 28 of 33 passes for 426 yards with five touchdowns and no picks against Atlanta. His deep ball? Sublime. His cleats? Sent to Canton. The game after that, he outgunned Patrick Mahomes in Kansas City.


LEADERSHIP:

To Watson, leadership is simple. "Being able to take ownership," he says, of "not just the offense—the whole team." And Watson chucking deep balls after a loss in September was only one minor (albeit very public) look into his endless obsession with perfection, one that included sitting down with Kobe Bryant for an hourlong one-on-one when the NBA legend visited the team in August. Watson grew up idolizing LeBron James, but after this, he is unquestionably a Kobe guy now.

"His mindset, the way he thinks, it changes everything," Watson says.

They talked life, talked finances and kept coming back to that "Mamba" mentality. Those close to the QB rarely hear him curse. Kobe? Not so much. Yet the F-bombs and bombast and midgame death stares always distracted the world from Kobe's true intent through his 20-year career, an intent that's really sticking with Watson.

"Trying to achieve greatness is life or death to him," Watson says. "It was him not allowing anything or anybody to stop him achieve that greatness. He wanted to win everything. He would compete with everyone. He would have to be an assh--e to people to get the full greatness out of them. So a lot of people say he wasn't a great teammate, but in reality, he really was because he wanted the greatness out of each and every person on the team. From a guy who's never on the court. From a coach that don't say a word. He wanted everybody to be great. And if everybody can be great? You can win a lot of championships."

Watson has 52 teammates instead of 14, but he's still trying to bring this Kobe effect to the Texans locker room. His way. He's learning who prefers a one-on-one setting and who can take getting yelled at in front of everyone. Some people enjoy getting called out. That brings out the best in them.

In response, teammates universally praise Watson's willingness to approach everyone on the team, like safety Justin Reid, who says Watson recently explained to him after practice how he could've disguised a coverage better, could've created a better trap, to confuse him if he was across the line of scrimmage.

"We all believe in him immensely," Reid says. "I don't know how much people think he knows ball, but he knows ball."

Indeed, the manner in which Watson talks to anyone one-on-one is the exact opposite of so many stars in any pro sports league. So many view all relationships in life through one prism only: How does this person help me? If the answer is "very little," then that person is ignored and often cast aside entirely. That's never been Watson. Dozens who've known him swear that if Watson is speaking to you, he prioritizes you, because he wants to make a real difference in peoples' lives. From donating his first game check to three Texans cafeteria workers whose homes were demolished by Hurricane Harvey to creating his own foundation earlier this month, the stories are legendary. Twelve years after ex-pro Warrick Dunn helped give Watson's family a home, Watson wants to pay it forward. Avery outright dares anyone to find anybody with a bad word to say about Watson.



It seems like those kind of leadership qualities are solid, but reserved for those with great talent... Kobe can call teammates out because he outworks them and out-performs them. Deshaun can probably do the same.

Here's a question though as we imagine a very real possibility...

Deshaun is suspended for the first few games, offense gets off to a rocky start, Deshaun doesn't perform very well when he returns, losses are piling up.


What kind of leash do teammates and media give him when he has no "capital" in Cleveland yet as far as shining on the field?

I hope there is immediate success, but this is Cleveland lol. (BTW, check out the full article, I think you'll like it)

This didn't age well....

Sorry, but that one stuck out. I'll check out the article. Thanks for posting.

Hey Fate. That is a good post w/some good questions.

It's a little of both w/the leadership in the locker room. I never thought Baker's attitude would transition well w/grown men. There are also all kinds of rumblings out there about how he lost the locker room w/his arrogance, lack of preparation, and immaturity. Also, I have lived in South Carolina for awhile now. Everything coming out of Clemson was about what a great person and what a tremendous leader Watson was. Do you remember his HC comparing him to Michael Jordan? In the pros, it was reported how much respect he garnered from his teammates and other players.

Your questions at the end are valid. I don't think the offense will get off to a rocky start once Watson plays. I have a completely different take on Stefanski and his offense than many around here. I also feel quite differently about a lot of talent that is on offense. I feel those things were said as excuses for Baker. Watson had an historic year when he last played and that team was pure garbage.

I think his teammates are going to be cool w/Watson. But, you raise a great point about the fanbase. I'll add in the local media. Baker is beloved by a large percentage of the fan base. For the most part, the local media feels the same way. I still can't believe that Jake Trotter guy came here from Oklahoma to cover the Browns. That seems dirty. I think the fans and probably a good portion of the media are going to be looking for reasons to trash Watson, Stefanski, and Berry. If Watson is suspended at the beginning of the season and team is losing......it could get really ugly. That will put an undue amount of stress and pressure on the entire organization. The coaching staff will be crucified and that kind of crap wears on players. I hope I am wrong about all of that, but......

My man Quincy brought out some advanced metrics:





Clearly there will be an upgrade at the position. One stat Q didn't talk much about is in DW's three years of playing.

He has averaged 470 yards rushing per year. That is a serious number.

I have always liked quarterbacks who are mobile. Third and long defenses have to honor the pass. Defenders drop in to coverage zones etc.

Lanes open. A quarterback that run for that first down from shotgun. That eats defenses. They hate that.

I have seen DW take over games in college and the pros. That was my main gripe with Baker. Late in games with the game on the line. He did not take over games very often. DW it was habit.

DW will sacrifice his body. That will up the injury risk but he plays to win. Hopefully he will protect himself like Wilson does.

JMHO, DW was outstanding at Clemson, he's been outstanding in Texas ON the field. He's got to be outstanding off the field. Sadly, how many women go after single black millionaire athletes- hope his dating becomes a marriage and then maybe some of the off field stuff goes away. But, he's a target until married FOR SURE.
Go Browns!!!