The last Baker thread is locked. I thought P-Dawg had a very thoughtful post on Baker and the Browns. Unfortunately, P-Dawg was attacked and the thread was soon locked. I think he was very balanced and calm in posting his thoughts. I also think that P-Dawg thinks/thought much higher of Baker than I did, but I don't have a problem w/that. People are entitled to their opinions and he certainly did not attack the character of anyone who viewed the situation differently that he did. It is my hope that we all follow P-Dawgs lead and express our opinions on Baker and the Browns w/out the usual character attacks that always ruin threads, especially the ones where Baker is being talked about. This is not intended as a Watson and his alleged crimes thread. Anyway, here is what P-Dawg had to say.


[quote]I was a fan of Baker. I liked his swagger. I liked how we would just let it rip. He wasn't without faults but he was the best QB I had seen in Cleveland since the return. One of his biggest faults was his QBR in the 4 th quarter. I could explain some of it away be cause we were so heavy run first in the 4 th he wasn't really getting A chance. The thing is it happened over and over. I felt bad for him getting injured. He was able to still played fairly well until the Cards game where he completely broke his shoulder.

I thought it took a lot of guts to keep playing. He really shouldn't have. He was no longer helping the team. I hoped we would play Case but we didn't. If we would have I believe we would have had better luck. I don't blame the season one Pittsburgh game on Baker. Our pass blocking was atrocious on the right side. We should have made adjustments in protection early on but it is what it is.

My support for Baker began to wane after his announcement that he made about not playing the Cincy game. Something about it seemed off to me. We then get the Browns public interest in Watson . The post he put on Instagram was dumb but I still felt for him. I thought the adult at QB comment was disrespectful. His reaction to it was childish, making me wonder about him further. His trade request was immature in my mind, especially when he tried to pick the team to be traded to. I found it odd that none of his teammates were standing up for him. Hooper alluded to problems in the locker room when he was announced at his press conference. Coupled with all that happened with OBJ I really started to want him to go. I heard from someone who would know that he was a problem in the locker room was the final straw.

We should hold on to him until we can get the most possible for him. I don't care if he gets upset or not. Hopefully he will learn and grow up.

Just my ramblings about the Mayfield saga./quote]

Tim Couch with the 2019,2020,2021 roster Bake had .

No offense, bro..........but, while I think Baker is vastly overrated by his fans, I also think he is a far better qb than Tim Couch ever was. Baker has a much better arm, he's tougher, and can make bigger plays at times. They resemble each other in that they were/are immature and struggle reading coverages. They also have another thing in common......the local fans and media think/thought much higher of them than the rest of the NFL world did. Both had/have had a ton of excuses made for their own shortcomings.

I'm not asking you to agree w/any of this. Just stating my opinion.

NO offense taking Vers, just glad to talk football and ya know it has lots of different views and opinions.


I think Couch being 6'4 may have been able to see more of the field than Baker, I believe it's like what 2000 yds difference in passing total. Baker has Couch, but again look at the line the RB's and WR's between the two.


Good discussion, thank you !

Good point about the height. It's a real problem being a short qb in the NFL. Brees overcame it, but others who are good are also superior athletes who can run around and buy time. Guys like Wilson and Murray. I do have to add that Murray is another Oklahoma QB who is terribly immature. Gawd, I loathe how he pouts all by himself on the bench.

I agree w/you that Baker had much better weapons than Couch. I just think they both were/are bad qbs and emotionally underdeveloped.

Btw.........remember back in the day when Couch was the qb and we would talk about him. Most of the board hated Peen and I for ripping Couch. The Kentucky fans were crazed. Much worse than the Oklahoma/Texas fans. Remember Leslie Dawg? That is a county in Kentucky and where Couch was from. He used to PM me all the time and told me how they were plotting to get me and Tim was involved in the planning. LOL...........he said they were going to cut my "you know what off" and shove it down my throat. Oh man.......that was hilarious!

Sorry, I got off track. Back to P-Dawgs thoughts.

Yeah I remember some. As far as P-Dawgs thoughts,well, I like PD as a person and fan,very glad I met him and know him.

Talking Baker is like putting another name of the jersey, he's not a FQB here as all can see, he's gone so ,not sure what to say .

looking forward not back !

I was always a fan of No Bakes. Yummy.

I talked myself into Baker after we picked him. He talked himself off of the team (it seems inevitable anyways.) We probably needed the swagger when he first got here, but we eventually needed more development. Basic competence isn't enough any more.

Now I find myself trying to talk myself into Watson, at least it's not about the football. He definitely has been better in the pros than I expected. Wasn't sure he had the arm, but he throws darts now.

j/c

I'm about done with the Baker Mayfield talk. Not because he isn't still current or relevant to us CLE fans during this offseason, but because there is no new angle left for us to cover. We've talked about his size, his 'speed,' his temperament, his mechanics, his ability to read coverages, his wife, his Progressive commercials- it's been exhausting. And now, for me- it's exhausted.

So tonight, Imma say my piece (in the most general of ways), and be done. No stats, no film study breakdowns, no 'psych evlas,' no Berea Sociology- none of the stuff that's been covered in the most minute detail. This is just me, Joe Average Browns Fan- weighing in on where I am, at the moment.


_________________



True to form, I was OK with 6 finishing his rookie contract with another year under center. I was willing to see if a healthy version of him could recreate some of the Game that made many, if not most of us, excited to watch Browns games again. I was never in denial of his shortcomings, but I always thought there was more upside than down. FQB? Not really. Better than anything we've had since 99? Quite possibly. Probably. I was willing to give him that last year to see if "last half/2020" could turn into something, going forward. See the season/negotiate the future after the 22 season.

So... calling 2021 season an aberration, I was good with seeing him for one more year. And I was all set to watch him with a critical eye.
And then came the way 6 finished the season. And the tweets. And the start of another patented Cleveland Browns Off-season Soap Opera that I thought we'd finally gotten out of our system.


And I started to be OK with the idea of moving on, since by then I could smell that old familiar aroma of dysfunction once again- and a lot of it was coming from the evolving dynamics between 6 and FO. A plucky Bake is a 6 you want to follow onto the field. A bitter Bake is someone I'm afraid to trust. The balance of 'upside/downside' began to shift.

Then came the Watson stuff, which p's me off, too (Browns can't ever do something clean and easy, can they? ). And the 6 dynamics shift even further.

Bottom line: I adopted 6 the moment he took the field. It's what this fan does. I stuck with him through all of it, and was ready to stick with him for another go-round. He's on his way out now, so I thank him for the wins. I thank him for the energy he brought to a moribund franchise, I thank him for doing his part to take us 2 deep into the playoff tournament. As a fan who has been starved since Bernie v. Horseface, that actually counts for something. I wish him well, as he writes his next chapters. If he leaves us, and finds his way to a Super Bowl matchup against the Cleveland Browns while wearing a different uniform- I hope he loses that game. Under any other circumstances than that, Clemdawg is not 6's enemy.

If we soon find ourselves in the thick of a SB race over the next few years, some of my gratitude will be reserved for this young man for his role in our turnaround. It would have been nice to see him hoist the Lombi in a CLE uni, but failing that, I just want to leave this discussion with some memories of what it felt like to be an old, tired, cynical Browns fan when he took the field for our tribe. This is what we got to see that year:

J/C

In terms of holding onto him until we can “get something” … that also means we are hoping someone takes on his whole contract. To do that, IMO, we’ll have to wait until the season when someone gets injured.

I think Berry has allowed us the financial flexibility to do so, I’m just not sure we’ll think keeping him this entire summer will be worth it

If we find a trade partner for Baker my attitude on his contract has changed a bit. My feeling was we were going to have to eat a portion of his contract. We may still have to do that if a team is only willing to take him on with the current contract in place.

If a team is looking at him on a 2-4 year deal, then it is easy for a team to structure the contract in to friendly terms.

Baker doesn't suck. He may not be worth the 18-19 mil a year where he sits, but he isn't a 8 mil a year QB either. It won't be hard for some team to spread things out making baker a $12 mil plus incentives QB.

I think now that some time has passed, the Baker camp understands there isn't a 25 mil a year contract in the waiting. Soon enough Baker is going to want to get the show on the road and signal he is ready to do that.

Regarding the trade, I think the league is going to be as strategic as possible this time of the year. Nobody is in dire straits, games are a long way off. They know we have to get rid of him, and they know his $$ feel like a boat anchor to us.

We're either going to have to eat some of his $$, or accept less in a return. Personally, I don't like gambling that someone will pay up for a QB when theirs goes down. Let's get this drama done with now.

Oh, and excellent post, Clem.

I really wanted Baker to be the guy, I think most of us did. And for what it's worth, we improved as a team during his stint here. We rose from the bottom to the middle of the pack. Made the playoffs, won a playoff game. But I think the feeling from the team is that was about as far as we going to go with Baker. One playoff appearance in 4 years. And with how the AFC has escalated, our 2020 performance is not likely to get us back into the post-season. In 2020 we got into the playoffs by beating a team resting its starters by 2 points on the last weekend. And our playoff win was against a QB that played like he was on crutches, and we needed 5 turnovers to do that. One direct TD from turnovers, and a few short fields. Yes, it was great. But we will need more to get to back to the playoffs.

The numbers are out there on Baker. He has never finished better than 26th in the NFL in completion percentage (among QBs with 100+ attempts). More picks over these 4 years than any other QB. We've seen the 4th quarter numbers. Baker has the arm to make any NFL throw, but he does not make them often enough. Yes, it was said that we was going to be QB going into next year. And for the first time in the history of organized sports such a comment turned out to not be true. </sarcasm>. The team did say that if they had a shot at a top-tier QB they were going to pursue it. I believe that to be true as neither Baker or his wife has denied it. And that is what they did.

I do not know what the future holds for him. Best of luck to him, wherever that is. Unless, of course, he is playing against us.

JMHO, Baker has little man syndrome. He's an overachiever. He's an average to below average NFL QB. I don't feel sorry for any athlete who's making more money than most people earn in a life time- they earn in a game. Hope Watson leads us to SB, Go Browns!!!!

You know things have gone to hell when you use an agenda to call this an attack....


Giving watson a free pass on his immaturity while railing on Baker's is one sided. I guess you'll now consider that truth an attack.

From the last Baker thread:


[quote]Awe...... You blame me for someone else throwing a tantrum? I asked if watson should be held to the same standard as Baker is because of watson's actions. It's a simple question. If I had known his position I wouldn't have needed to ask him the question. And not only did he not directly answer the question, you also didn't. But that's what's become of this place. Avoid the issue and blame the one that is bringing it up. Your kind won't change anything. You may as well be banging your head against the wall. You dodge and blame anyone that follows a narrative you don't agree with. Watson demanded a trade because he didn't get to hand pick his own HC. You better hope he does a good job picking coaches.

Then people lambaste Baker and give watson a free pass. But that's something you don't want to address. It seems that neither did Pdawg. Instead you try and portray it as my fault I brought up the obvious comparison. You are hilarious./quote]

And that was in response to Memphis. But of course you don't want to put my response in context. That wouldn't put your accusation in a favorable light. So do you think it's fair any any way to not bring up what watson did to the Texans into question if we are attacking Baker for almost the exact same conduct when he was with the Texans? Maybe you can reach outside yourself to address the actual point rather than go on some personal tirade and avoid it.

Baker and the public was told he was gong to be our starter in 2022. He along with the rest of us were lied to.

watson was told he would be included in the choosing of their next head coach. He was lied to.

The response from both was to demand a trade. According to some that means one is immature without addressing that the response from both was similar.

Once again you don't actually address the issue but the one who brought it up.

Thanks Vers, for once I thought I got the last word and you ruined it for me! lol!

I don't feel you are using me (through my post) to further any agenda. I know your feelings on Baker. They don't match up with mine obviously. The thing is people can agree to disagree and that's ok by me.

I' m not one to post my beliefs over and over, not to mention nobody really cares what I think anyways. lol! I will say it again for Pit that I think we made a deal with the devil bringing in Watson. The thing is this thread is not about Watson and trying to tie one's opinion of one QB to another is BS.

Thanks Deisle, I'm glad that I met you as well. If it wasn't for you I wouldn't be driving a MKZ. lol

I know we disagree on Baker. I have no problem w/that and I don't think you do, either. Different opinions are actually a good thing. There are just four or so people who have to constantly resort to personal attacks. I'm trying my best to ignore those guys and I probably messed-up by pointing out that I don't think you were throwing a tantrum because now the door is open. But again, you didn't throw a tantrum and it was a Baker thread and not a Watson thread and while I think far less of Baker as a player and teammate than you do, I can still appreciate a thoughtful post on the topic.

Actually my question is more about a double standard between Watson and Baker as to their conduct in similar situations. And you are right that this isn't what the thread is "supposed to be about". But since it was vers who brought it up to begin with in his very first paragraph of the thread, he opened that door with a gusto.

We agree that we made a deal with the devil. I'm not sure how that addresses the double standard issue I brought up in terms of their actions under similar circumstances. That's all I was asking to begin with. And still not a single poster has addressed that.

And still you refuse to address it.

It doesn't address it. They both showed immaturity from what I can see. I think some people's argument about Baker is that he has been immature his entire life. I was not one of those people but the more I learned the more my opinion has change. Watson has not shown the same history.

But Watson's exit wasn't immature. He was making a stand for social justice.

Baker was just upset Stefanski didn't ask him to the upcoming dance after they got tired of his too cool for school routine.

Thanks for the reply.

That was a pretty good response in a funny, silly sort of way. Humor is always appreciated.

j/c:

He got this one right!

What's weird is that we hired Freddie in part because he was the guy Baker wanted.

I'm surprised (or maybe I shouldn't be) that this hasn't gotten more traction.

You have been around long enough to not be surprised. Again, this place is like an alternative universe when it comes to Baker.

It seems we are in full rewrite history mode. Following on from Baker the Person, we've now got The Bake Show... Purely and exercise in piling on negative criticism when I don't see any new angle or topic, just rehashing and an opportunity to try and put Bake in the most negative of lights. We've seen that apparently a torn shoulder, broken humerus and harness wasn't the reason for Baker struggling and didn't make that much difference. We've seen the history of OBJ and his never having wanted to be in CLE be rewritten. We've seen comments that we went to the playoffs because of rhe team but Baker is the reason all by himself that we lost games and didn't go to the payoffs this year. We've seen excuses for other positions thru injury but that doesn't get extended to Baker, quite the opposite. We've seen aims at the beginning of rhe season that Baker had the best Wr group in the NFL (remember those agenda driven posts?) to Watson needs better WR. Hey, we even have an new reliable if secret insider source that says bad things about Baker and the locker room !

No wonder you were blanked on the question you raised. And no wonder the OP avoids addressing this stuff. Just like his post to Mac the other day that didn't remotely address the content and football talk in a post.... This was on the same or the next day after liking another post that talked about posters not addressing content in posts. Literally can't make this stuff up, but for anyone paying attention we've seen the hypocrisy and agenda stuff before, so no surprise.

Baker's essentially gone. Hopefully we get something in return via a trade. Judging him on his 2021 play on the field is more than stupid. Judging on his 2020 performance across the entire season Baker was pretty decent. Looking at the last 9 games of 2020 Baker was actually really good. But be damned with that, let's pile on and reinvent history!

Good to see you, Vers.

I wanted to like Baker so much. He seemed to have that attitude that we needed with that chip on his shoulder. He showed a lot of promise with the throws that he could hit. It was fun riding the roller coaster watching him in 2018. 2019 was obviously a different story, but then right back to 2020 when he gave us all hope again. Then 2021, which you laid out pretty well.

His style of play and attitude I think mimics the fan base surrounding him: a vacillation between “holy cow, how is it possible for someone to do something like that!?” To “What in the blue hell was he thinking on that play!?!?” The pendulum swung wide, both with his style of play and his attitude.

I was not thrilled when we signed Watson given his current situation off the field. There will always be a part of me that will lament Baker not being the guy here. Part of me also worries this is the “turning point” where the somber piano music plays in his 30 for 30 special right before he cranks off 3 Super Bowl wins with some other franchise, haha. I guess we’ll see.

Now many are wondering "am I one of the four or so people"...lol I hope you see the irony of your statement.

Well I just read some very bad news btw. Watson is in so much deeper trouble than is led on by posters here. It looks like the Browns is going to have their QB in prison for years we reacted way too fast on Baker.

Already its reported many fans have canceled their season tickets.
But worse is a new development has popped up as over 20 witnesses is coming out on being sought out and consensually had sex with Watson. In other words he will now be proven to be a predator. He didn't go on trial and was cleared where they can't try him again. They just didn't have enough evidence - now they do and I got a feeling unless the NFL steps in and cancels the trade we are totally screwed for YEARS now. I didn't like the deal before...I didn't like the deal on the retake, I didn't like the deal in the aftermath. The Browns have set themselves back possibly losing the opportunity of having some pretty good players here but now without a QB.

This part about bad news is posted for all not directed to you vers. I realize you still dislike me so I'm like why should I walk on egg shells....lol We rarely agreed on QB for this team. I was an optimist and you the pessimist. I always could live with that. But we just made a big mistake with Baker. You think its a SHOW. The kid is real and once he finishes his rehab he is going to have one heck of a career. The Browns will be without a QB, without the massive cap space, without first round picks. Nobody is going to want to play for us. I am bitter not towards opinion and fans reacting differently than me. I am bitter cause we were truly on the cusp of doing some great things. Now that is possibly gone.

I have not seen anything new on Watson... I am not comfortable with all these allegations but I don't want the Browns to be screwed out of all those draft picks for nothing. Guess we are still in wait and see mode.

I’m not aware of anything new? Please inform.
Also, if 20 women had consensual sex with him how does that make him a predator? Does just having multiple sexual partners classify you as a predator?
Am i a predator for having had multiple sexual partners?

I think he's talking about the 18 that came out in support of DW, and a judge ruled that he has to disclose whether he had sexual relations with them.

Hey man, I was hoping you would post over here. I refuse to go anywhere near the Political forum. We disagree on Baker's potential. I'm okay w/that and you were able to disagree w/me w/out all the childish character attacks that others have to resort to. I hope to see you in this forum more often.

No tab, you are not of the guys I was referring to. In fact, just yesterday I was thinking that maybe for the first time ever, you and I are both going to be in agreement on our new QB. I really think you are going to love what Watson brings to the field.

You mean like that?

Ha, you’re smarter than I am for keeping it over here vs PP. I had kind of gone dark in this forum for a little bit because I was trying to process the Watson signing, but I’ll try to come around here more.

Baker lost me as a supporter when he came out and said he was going to kneel during the NA for the entire season (maybe longer), then turned around later that summer and changed his position on it. Methinks that Progressive Insurance threatened him with dropping him and his endorsements, so he did a 180. At least stick to your guns when you make a bold statement like kneeling, even if I don't agree

If a guy flip flopping on whether to take a knee lost you - which I can understand, but it seems a little harsh - but if that makes you 'switch off' ... what is your feeling with our new QB? 40-50 different massage therapists in a short time frame, having sex with many or most of them, 22 civil cases hanging over him? Does he get a clean slate because he didn't do those things as a Brown? Is changing your mind over kneeling worse than the situation with Watson because the situation with Watson so unclear and not 100% transparent? Just curious - and to repeat earlier statements - whatever someone's feelings about Watson are, I'm not criticizing, but I am interested in clarity of people's thought process.

At this point it looks like Kapernick is drawing more interest with teams needing a QB..

Yeah, that's it. That's why Kap has been out of the league for years now. Because he's drawn so much interest.

You are here for the fight again.

More: a greater or additional amount or degree of.

While someone speculative it does appear there is MORE interest in Colin than in Baker currently. That is not to say there is a lot of interest in Colin, just that there appears to be more interest in Colin than Baker. Which is actually kinda sad for Baker.

Based on what? If you would like to address the issue feel free to. Kap has had these same type of workout shows in the past since being cut and no team has made him any type of legitimate offer. That speaks for itself. So if you have a basis for your claim feel free to show it. Otherwise it seems it's you who came here to start a fight.

I have no problem people bringing legitimate debate to the table. But the facts are Kap has done this kind of thing before and still isn't on an NFL roster.

I've also seen the little snippets about how teams are supposedly inquiring about Kap, but I take that with a high degree of skepticism/suspicion. There are clearly people who stand to benefit from manufacturing interest around Kap, and those are usually the sources behind those articles.

I did use the word "speculative" because at this point it is.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...t-colin-kaepernick-according-to-trainer/

While speculative 5 teams maybe having an interest seems to be MORE than interested in Baker. You skipped the word MORE in your original reply as it would not let you have your agenda and argument.

MORE is comparative, if 5 teams have an interest in Colin and 4 in Baker that fits the definition of more. You used the word MUCH which quantitative. No one said here was MUCH interest, just MORE. As you are so fond of saying "reading comprehension is important."

The bottom line is someone said something about Baker and it doesn't fit your agenda so you get snarky and fight about it. Baker is likely not to ever play another down for this team, he isn't our QB anymore.

Here is the actual quote from the Kap's personal trainer that the comment was based on.....
So the actual man who is promoting Kap didn't even claim it was five teams but a few teams and only stated that they asked how his arm looked. Even Kap himself didn't claim it was five teams.

But see, you are the person who hasn't been paying attention. I've openly stated that Watson is a better QB than Baker. That he is most certainly the better QB between the two. And of course he isn't the Browns QB anymore. Like I said, stating things that are based in fact I have no problem with. Just throwing out unsubstantiated rumors and things not based in fact is what I have an issue with.

But thanks for playing.

So teams have reached out to se if Colin is available, it doesn't appear anyone has any interest in Baker. Some is MORE than none.

Also I did say it was speculative. Speculative = Unsubstituted rumors. Do you have any concrete evidence that teams are inquiring about Baker at this juncture? Yeah, no didn't think so. You are trying to argue I am not paying attention yet part of your argument is what I already said.

I know for you it is all about the fight. Win = last word for you. I will let you win this one. Get your last word. See if you can do it without being snarky though, but you won't. And you will, yet again, self-aggrandize.

What team didn't know Kap was available? I think every team in the NFL knew he was "available" and that's not even what was said. I'll repeat what the article said once again since it seems it hasn't sunk in yet. ""A few teams have reached out to me and asked how his arm looked," Robinson said. "They have reached out and asked about him."

That really isn't speculative. The fact that no one associated with Kap including his trainer said that five teams inquired about him isn't speculative. Unless of course that's what you call a totally unsubstantiated rumor at best.

I don't have to win something when you've defeated yourself. You see Kap is a FA that can be signed for free. The NFL is waiting ion Baker to be cut so they don't have to pay 19 million for his services. He'll either be on the coach getting paid or he'll be cut. But let's not discuss facts when twisting what was said to begin with.

I'm not sure how I never saw this 2016 story before now, but it's kind of interesting to go back and read in light of all that has transpired with Mayfield:

ABC/ESPN Baker Piece: "All He Needs Is Hate"

I do recall Baker still not being tall enough to get on the rides
At Cedar Point. Maybe he should give up.on being.a NFL.QB
And.try his hand at MLB. He is.still.enough young enough
To get a tryout from the Pirates. Baker.could be.in Triple A
By next year and be their starting SS in 2 yrs.
Its a win win. Mayfield can make under 2 million a year for a cheap owner and the Pirates
Beat writers can continue to keep his chip on.shoulder
Narrative alive and well.

I was more looking at his departure from Texas Tech. He had injury issues during his record setting true freshman season and only played eight games. Davis Webb started the other 5 games and put up similar numbers. Kingsbury decided to hold a competition going into the next season instead of just giving Baker back his job, which ultimately led to Baker transferring.

I wonder if that experience led to him playing through his injuries last year.

As a QB I love Watson, I have no problems with his play on the field. Its off the field that scares me and the investment we made doesn't go sour for us.


I remember when he came out for the draft and I wanted him - he won the national championship so he knew how to win! Many didn't like him I don't know why...anyways QBs change from college to NFL. I liked Baker but that doesn't mean I hate Watson.
Again its the off the field stuff that scares me.

It will be nice to be on the same page with our QB. Can't wait for the negative stuff to clear. But Watson is football intelligent has excellent vision and is very accurate - if forced to he can hurt teams by running/scrambling. Our running attack, no need to add the QB in a run scheme. Maybe playoffs. Landry would be good for Watson. Cooper is a stud from that Alabama tree.

Durning the 2017 draft Hue Jackson called DW and told him we were drafting him at #12 if I remember correctly. Then I don't know what happened but obviously we didn't. He should have been a Brown from the get go.

Public service announcement for all the Baker fans. They are replaying the Steelers game
Week 17. Big Bens last home game. My god Schwartz is worse than I thought.

[/color]

Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper

Public service announcement for all the Baker fans. They are replaying the Steelers game
Week 17. Big Bens last home game. My god Schwartz is worse than I thought.

[color:#FFFFCC]Iluv...blame it on the analytics that clearly showed Schwartz was superior when you add up his sparq score...

He was a 3rd rounder. Blame Stefanski for playing him.

j/c...

Podcast is out.

I can understand why Baker feels disrespected. He also is going the Hue Jackson route of not taking responsibility for anything. If Baker is looking to start somewhere I’m not sure how this helps.

My thoughts exactly.

How can someone of reasonable intelligence be so clueless.

Agreed. There is nothing wrong with being upset they way things unraveled in 2021 and being salty someone took your job. That's natural as far as I am concerned. However, the "I'd like to boo the $#!+ out of someone in a cubicle" is a rather stupid thing to say and probably doesn't get teams chomping at the bit to come get you.

Apparently Baker said he'd love to come to someone's cubicle and boo them.

How can anyone continue to defend this immaturity?

I get the point he's trying to make there but... why?

Because he's immature and because he's exactly like the guy he hated, Hue Jackson.

Nothing is ever Baker's fault.

Oh my gosh how could the Browns move on.from.this QB
I mean all he did was lead the league in completion % before
He made that stupid attempted tackle vs the Texans
The Browns will be sorry they let him go.
Baker outplayed all AFC North QBs last year. !!!

We do this at work all the time... keeps people on their toes.

What.

So as yet I have not listened to the podcast .... but to date, I'm not sure I have ever heard Baker point blame elsewhere throughout his career with the Browns. You could say that he said some salty things at the end of last year after playing hurt for 16 weeks and being pissed off with KS .... other than that I don't recall him pointing fingers. He most certainly could have jumped on the narrative many were pushing when OBJ engineered his way out of town and Baker could have said OBJ was running the wrong routes, not in the right place at the right time and was dropping catchable balls ... but he didn't.

And - I don't think talking about booing people at their cubicles has anything to do with blaming someone else for something either.

So unless their is something else in the Podcast where Bake is throwing folks under the bus, I'll be left to assume this is another Vers like piece of revisionist history and simply making stuff up.

I'm debating whether or not to actually listen to the podcast. I probably should now that I've failed to stay out of this conversation.


It's 'whatever' to me since nothing good was going to come of this podcast anyway, so my expectations are low.

I am that same place you are. If someone on here that has a balanced perspective on Baker says there is something worth listening to - good or bad - I'll listen. I'd be shocked if there is anything of substance in there - I think Baker has shown the world his ass with the handling of this situation. I don't care about Baker's feelings. I don't care about what the team did or didn't say to him. Just get on with sorting out where your next team/home will be and move on. Throwing toys out of prams - no matter how seemingly justified in your head - is just not a good look.

A part of me wouldn't doubt that Baker is doing this to lower his trade value, forcing the Browns into a bad deal just to screw them over for how he was treated

I am going to have to resort to reading excerpts of the podcast because those were four unlikable dudes and I couldn't get past 3 minutes.

I did listen to NFL Live today and they were talking about how Baker felt disrespected. Seriously? Did Jarvis cry when he was cut? Did Hooper whine when he was traded? Did Mack Wilson? How about the thousands of other guys who have been moved on from? But no, sinister folks like WSU, 888, Pit, etc talk about how the Browns did Baker wrong. How do you spell hypocrite?

Hey Baker............remember when you trashed Duke Johnson and used the words "self-inflicted?" Another glaring example of hypocrisy.

How was he treated? And I pray to God for his sake that he isn't that ignorant. I actually don't think he is ignorant. I think he is an emotional midget, but not a mental midget even though 888 once again purposely misquoted me. I wonder if guys like him will follow Baker out of town? Calgary anyone?

I should've said how he thinks he was treated.

Thought it was pretty interesting. I always thought Baker came from a very wealthy family, him saying they lived from apt to apt and his parents and brother did a lot for him to succeed.

Baker seemed honest, the cubical thing is nothing. I bet 99% of athletes who have been boo'd would say or think the same thing.

Baker says he had a good rookie year, then his 2019 season sucked. He had a good 2020 season and his 2021 season sucked. Sounds like what we all say. again he seemed honest about it.

The ups and downs and having the four different head coaches and all the instability...Most of us said the same thing for season after season before Baker.

I liked how he had that beer bong thing sitting on the counter, mostly advertising but cool, sure the boys did use it.

Baker saying he felt disrespected, who wouldn't. Berry maybe should have said we are going to look at the QB situation and go from there.

I'm not a fan of Baker, though it didn't portray the bs the press who are trying to make off season headlines.

He's a soul who has to deal with life as we all do. Fortunately for fans it's not as public as an athlete.Guys sitting around just talking about life's experiences, thought it was pretty good.

Sorry. My post probably came across as an attack. I admit i was aggravated by 888 telling yet another lie on me reinventing history. So again, I'm sorry. Even if you think you think that Baker was mistreated, I can accept that. Just gun shy due to guys like 888, WSU, Pit, and Purp roaming about like wolves on the attack.

Hey bro..........I have a very different take on Baker and this situation than you, but you know what.........I respect your opinion and won't resort to insulting your character like guys such as WSU, 888, Purp, Pit, and OCD do over and over.

Different opinions and takes are welcomed in cilvil and intellectual societies. Not so much in juvenile and corrupt societies.

It was a lot more interesting than watching Johnny Manziel drinking champagne on an inflatable Swan.

LOL

I'm not a Baker fan at all Vers. I didn't see that big of a deal out of the podcast, on his views about the subject.

It's like reading twenty different articles from sport heads. Everyone has a different feeling of things.

To me, the constant refrain of "everyone needs to do their jobs" after games was passing the buck. It was tough watching Baker not be able to make routine plays, watching receivers run wide open and not get the ball, watching Baker struggle to make plays in crunch time then have him say after games "everyone needs to do their jobs". It always made me cringe. I always wondered what the players thought about that line of reasoning. Sometimes he would say he played like crap. Sometimes he owned it, but that was few and far between. But his most consistent refrain is "everyone needs to do their jobs". I always felt as the leader of the team he overplayed that. That's basically blaming others.


What exactly was he mad at KS about? Or better yet what reason did he have to be mad at Stefanski? Stefanski consistently defended Baker in the media.


I really think this notion is overplayed. Receivers have a route but also react to the defense. If Baker was a better processor of what was happening out there, OBJ wouldn't have to always exactly be in a spot. If that's the way your offense has to be run, you don't have much of shot.


This confirmed how much the Detroit game bothered him and how it continues to bother him. And how poorly he is handling it.

Am I missing something? Isn't Baker exactly the reason OBJ wanted out? I'm not aware of any other reason being reported.

OBJ didn't want to be in Cleveland in the first place from what I've read.

Wasn't it also reported that he would consider coming back next season? The only difference between last season and this upcoming season is that Baker is gone.

I've read/heard that. From reputable sources? I don't know. He just had another surgery, which, from what I read, would cause him to miss a chunk.

I wouldn't want him here anyway. Play like a fool while here, after admitting you didn't want to be here? (cleveland). Nah, we've enough drama right now. He can take his second operation knee and go go somewhere else.

So about 11 minutes of the podcast and thought it was actually interesting hearing about his ordeals in college. To go from where he was to Heisman winner and #1 pick in the draft. I thought was amazing.

When he stepped in after the injury as a rookie that was a magical moment for Cleveland. I will never forget that. His 20 TD and -0- INT from the red zone that rookie year was amazing. I wish he was as selfish and you all make him out to be cause then he wouldn't have played last year after the injury where all the bad happened. I knew he wasn't Ski's choice its a shame they couldn't grow together. but as they say Ce' La vie... Talk about immaturity the irony is the Baker bashing going on as a very mature and classy feature...lol you guys are funny.

Thanks for the detailed response. My comments before were specifically relating to Baker blaming others - something I don't agree with. And in answer to your points:

- I don't live or get NE Ohio broadcasts - I don't see post game pressers, only read them online or summaries. If I missed something of importance let me know ... but I remember both KS and BM both trotting out "we have to do better" and "I must do better" throughout the season. I didn't take it at the time to be blaming others. Neither did the media. I don't remember any comments on this board to that affect. Using those words now and to interpret them as meaning something they were never referred to during the season seems a stretch to me. jmo. I think if they don't sit well with you maybe it also has something to do with your general sentiment towards Baker .... just maybe?

- I am not excusing Baker and his hissy fit with KS at the end of the season - and I don't agree with airing any team issues in the public - but I *believe* Baker was upset mostly about play calling in the Pit game. From memory = We had a lot of pass plays with our rookie 3rd strong RT 1 on 1 with TJ Watt who is the best pass rusher in the NFL. The RT may as well have been a statue on some of those plays. From memory we were very pass happy in stretches - I believe that Monday night football with Peyton Manning and Eli (?) even commented on this several times. I remember commentators on regular network commenting how much of a hindrance Baker's harness was and how it especially impacted throws to the left side of the field. Again - going from memory - but after this comment we watched 3 or 4 pass plays all to the left sidelines all of which looked bad. . . . So KS definitely deserved some scrutiny. Just not from anyone in a Browns uniform and especially not the QB.

- I didn't raise the OBJ saga to debate the reality of him being open or in the right place. I fully agree better QB play finds OBJ regardless. But there was a day throughout that saga when the Browns spin machine went into motion and several reporters talked about OBJ running the wrong routes and freelancing to get open. . . . To your point about blaming others, Baker could have easily jumped on that train and he did not. To be honest - Baker has always had issues with his emotions and immaturity and during those OBJ issues I actually thought Baker handled the situation as well as he possibly could. Actually gave me hope that maybe he had turned a corner. Obviously not based on what we have seen since.

- And talking about the booing is childish. Talking of booing people in their cubicles is silly. But it doesn't relate or support Baker blaming others and being 'just like Hue'. And that was my only real point.

I've said since everything started to break - Baker should simply stfu, get off social media, wait till the whole situation is resolved and focus 100% on being a better QB. That's not happening and he continues to show is ass. But despite immaturity and other issues, personally I've never seen Baker as the finger pointing type and certainly nothing like Hue.

I keep thinking of one play last year, not sure which game it was. I think it was a 3 or 4 pick game. Anyway, Landry was on a route and there was heavy coverage underneath and absolutely no one behind him. He starts to go deep and Baker threw for a comeback. Landry hit the breaks and slipped. The ball was easily picked off. The game day thread, and the post game thread, had people blaming Landry for the pick because he fell down. The ball never got to where he was. This is an example of one guy reading the play one way and the other guy reading it another. To my untrained eye it was an easy read. Landry had nothing but room behind him.

Responding to part of Diesel's post as well as Rish's.


The thought/feeling is nbd, for sure. It's not hard to empathize and sympathize with the thought. It's that that 99% wouldn't verbalize that thought. It's the same thing as comparing how Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, Baker all handled their respective off-season moves.


You've been banging on this drum basically since day 1. It sounded like manufactured/fake drama before (IMO). As I've admitted before, I'm looking back on some of these games/PCs with a very different perspective given how this off-season has played out with Baker.

I think Baker is a spoiled brat. His interview came across to me as a spoiled brat. I was appalled by him last year when he lobbied to get a convicted murder off his death sentance. The victims families had to really feel victimized yet again. Showed his really poor character. The Browns should have never drafted a QB #1 overall that short. He was just marginally better than Johnny Manziel. He showed in his actions to Hue and the Giants QB by his comments he had no class. I am actually glad he was replaced and feel the teams future is in better hands with Watson.

I would be surprised if Baker's agent gave the the okay to go forward w/the podcast. With all the reports out there of Baker being immature and not being an "adult" in the building, it seems counterproductive to do a long podcast that included things like Baker feeling disrespected by the Browns.

Do other guys in the NFL go on podcasts to throw shade at their team? Maybe a TO or Chad Johnson did? I don't know. But, I think of Jared Goff. He played in a Super Bowl w/the Rams. Did he do a podcast when the Rams were considering trading him? Jimmy G also played in a Super Bowl. Did he take to the airwaves to say how disrespected he felt that the 49ers gave up the farm to draft an raw rookie to replace him? Hell, I think Carson Wentz is immature and similar to Baker in several ways, but did he do what Baker just did?

If I were Baker's agent, I would tell him to handle the situation w/class and try to quiet the whispers about him being immature and not a great teammate. I would not encourage unwanted attention that is yet another verification of how Baker is immature.

I will agree that there's not a lot of sound bites or reports of Baker overtly blaming others.

But I also believe Baker doesn't take accountability (which was my original statement).

The second implies the first but doesn't require it. I think the main point here is Baker rarely seems to want to take accountability.

As for the Pitt game, it is my belief and opinion that Stefanski was making a point. If I recall correctly, Baker had begun to throw some shade toward game plans, etc. leading up to that game. I think Stefanski said 'ok, let's see how it goes'. Let's open things up. We saw the results. I think we can all agree that Stefanski is a not a dumb guy. He saw what was going on out there. If I had to guess a better QB gets the ball out faster.

Is this an apology? You and 888 lead the personal attack charge on me. I don't think I ever responded in kind. Just gave my opinion and let you guys get spun up. I didn't expect that from you just based on your posting personality/style over the years.

Now lately you've been "coming around". Therefore, I think you should remember this mantra in all future instances where we have a difference of opinion - "Rishuz is always right. Rishuz is always right."

I guess it was more of an admission of guilt than anything. I did come after you hard, and probably pushed the limits of what can be considered 'normal message board discourse' at times. Sorry about that (THAT is an apology).


lol... if anyone is entitled to a victory lap then I guess it's you in this thread. You were correct.

I don't like victory laps. I was just ribbing you.

I'm the type of guy and hang out with the type of guys that if we are out having drinks or just shooting the breeze, we clown on each other.

It's all in good fun.

I learned my lesson when disagreeing with Rish when he said that Chud lost the team about half way thru the season.

I was a Baker fan but this disrespected stuff gets under my skin. The Browns took him no.1 in the draft. The Browns gave up 3 first round picks+ to get his replacement.
The Browns gave him a contract that will pay him about 50 million bucks. His agent was was asking for even bigger money for future years. The results were frankly mediocre.

The Browns were in a spot, should they pay Baker big money for likely average play?
They chose to look around and go with somebody they thought would be better. That happens to every player in the NFL eventually. It's the nature of the business.

I'm sure the Browns wish he'd played better. The fans certainly wish he'd played better. No disrespect but if you're an average player in the NFL and don't know you might be replaced that's on you.
Currently at his present salary there are no takers for his services. Seems to me if he's feeling disrespected he should be bad mouthing the rest of the league not the Browns

That's the way I took it, but if you were serious I wouldn't hold it against you for the reasons you stated.

j/c

If Baker were my son, I'd have implored him to take the high road. If Berry and Ski were my sons, I'd have implored them both to be upfront with Baker. If all (3) were my sons, I'd be disappointed with how this ended while still being quite proud of all (3) of them.

Seems to be your go to line now. How many drinks did you have before posting that? It's only not an attack when you do it. We get it and you will be too.

Not sure not taking accountability for yourself and blaming others is entirely the same thing or that one implies the other. And I think you
I don't remember that play but there were other plays where commentators - hell even Troy Aikmen who never seems to say a nice word about the Browns - commented on how a route looked like it should have been run or designed. Bottom line I don't know, the commentators don't know. Baker played plenty bad last year, I still think most of that was due to injury and harness. I saw and heard commentators talking like that and assumed they were right - but they might not have been. When Baker gets his next chance we'll get a better picture. I still lean towards his ceiling being what we saw in the last 9 games of 2020 but unless he gets his head out of his butt the challenge will only be bigger.

I will say that I wish people would make up their minds. Almost every poster on this board claimed thought Hue was a crappy coach and should have been canned sooner than he was. It seems pretty funny when they said it, they felt they were right. When Baker says the same thing suddenly he's not taking responsibility. So it actually has nothing to do with what was said but rather who it is that's saying it. As for myself I thought Hue should be given a roster with enough talent to win with first. He was and failed miserably. So by the time he was fired I agreed it was the right thing to do also. But it was proven and agreed by all that Hue was a total failure. Unless of course Baker says so. Then it's a big deal.

And as far as Baker goes, I've always stated both the negative and the positive. At one point you considered me a hater of Baker. lol I've never been his biggest fan but also haven't ignored many of his positives. I'd say overall I've been fairly balanced as far as he is concerned. Now suddenly I'm some huge Baker fan who is upset by the fact he will no longer our QB. That's just an outright lie by those perpetrating such BS. While I won't attempt to bog this thread down with my reasoning for why I dislike the move that was made, it certainly wasn't because I'm upset by this FO getting a better QB which Watson most certainly is. I've stated that I believe watson is a much better QB and as far as on the field of play they upgraded the position.

But I'm also not going to ignore the way things went down from Baker's perspective. People try to use examples of "Did *inset name here" act that way when he was cut or replaced?" Like that's an accurate gauge of things. Because actually addressing the details of what transpired in each of these cases would not be to their advantage. There was a public statement made that Baker would be our starting QB in 2022. Did that happen with these" other players"? At that point people say, "but you can't believe PR statements from an NFL FO". Then when that same FO tells you that Baker's replacement was "carefully vetted" they proclaim it as gospel.

When you make a public statement claiming a QB is your guy to only turn around and replace him, that isn't something between a player and a FO alone. At the point you make such a statement public, it's out there for everyone to see. That's what happened.

Up until this point I don't feel Baker handled the situation badly. His letter was nothing that dissed anyone or was in bad taste and those who wished to make something out of it had to stretch everything out of context to do so. But this podacst is a bit different. I feel any normal, rational thinking person can see that it was not in his best interest to do this. It certainly won't help him professionally and does look like a gut instinct reaction. Much like his letter it's not as bad as people are making it out to be but it's certainly not the path he should have taken by any means.

If Baker recently dissed Hue - or if there is a discussion on Baker talking about Hue I missed it. . . . What was said on the board: that Baker - Like Hue - blames others for his failings instead of taking ownership of his own short comings. Not sure if you misunderstood back and forth or if I missed something. I disagree with the idea Baker blames others, and that's what I've posted about the last couple of posts.

Obviously I have been a Baker supporter - and I will be when he moves on and isn't playing the Browns. I truly appreciate the spark he brought to the Browns the moment he stepped on the field for an injured Tyrod. Sidetracked here - but when we talk about if Baker can elevate the people around him, I'd say just based on how the team looked with Tyrod vs Baker you could say Baker definitely elevated the team that year. Anyway - getting back on track - regardless of supporting Baker, personally I detest anything in/on social media from him or from his wife. I hate anything where Baker needs to talk about how he feels, what happened, what challenges he did or didn't have .... I personally believe he just needs to get on and be the best QB he can be and to that end absolutely NOTHING, no matter how seemingly justified, Baker says in a public forum for public consumption helps. If he has to say anything he basically says "wherever I am and whatever situation I end up with, I'm going to work my damn butt off to be the best I can be". End of.

Man, he is going to talk himself right out of the league. Once again, he is resorting to blaming others. Trashing other players is a horrible look. Both Pioli and McGinnest were in the league and understand how these things play out in the locker room.

He really should have just shut his mouth, but he can't help himself. Rabbit ears.

So, let me get this straight… Baker is the bad guy because he spoke out about his side and his views… And Deshaun Watson (a possible predator) is the second coming. If he ever gets to play… Y'all don't deserve a good QB. smh.

If Baker dedicated himself to playing the position as much as he runs his mouth
About things that really don't matter at the end of the day, he would be
Employed by now.
Mayfield grew up with every thing handed to.him. He never had to face adversity.
When he faces adversity, he folds.
Baker was a 1st RD bust. All of a sudden John Dorseys drafts arent looking so good

"All of sudden" - LOL.

I don't think people are saying that.

As a person who has been in the Baker camp and would have been good had we kept him and all was cool with that situation, Baker didn't look good. He didn't do anything that will help his situation. Baker may think he is a starting QB, but what he feels doesn't matter, it's what other teams feel.

I think he can get back there but it is going to take him a few years of kicking around as a back-up and a few teams before he get's there. How he does in that position will dictate how it all turns out.

No matter how all of that works out, even if he starts this year, all of this doesn't bode well for us being able to salvage a whole lot out of him in the way of a trade, and who knows, maybe that was his goal? Like he said, he could retire now. I don't get the feeling that money is a big concern nor is doing us any favors. I think he would be fine with sitting at home, collecting $19 million.

jc
If Baker doesn't take another snap in the NFL, he's still going to be a millionaire. $18.9 Million is not chump change. I like the guy, I don't like some of the things that he has done recently. As the old adage goes "It's best to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." I understand he's still in his 20's and I know from experience that sometimes you make really bad choices at that age that you regret later in life. I wish the kid the best.

You have to look at the two situations in isolation and they are not linked in any way - imo. Baker just needs to shut up publicly. I've no doubt that the ESPN show or whatever it was cherry picked the most inflammatory remarks, they may have played snippets that lost some context .... but at the end of the day nothing that was said was unfair, the criticisms of Baker were realistic and balanced. I think the board's inference that there is a pattern and history of Baker blaming others for his issues is a faulty premise - being salty with KS after one game, and this snippet about how to motivate retiring players isn't a pattern of behavior like Hue.... but Baker opening his mouth and talking about his feelings and talking about others is dumb and Baker owns what he does in that regard.

Saying things like some players don't want to win and are just in it for the retirement fund is not going to endear himself to other players across the league. Also, using the number of head coaches and offensive coordinators as an excuse is not going to win him any points w/other organizations. Scott Pioli was a pretty decent GM and he said that he would not bring Baker into his locker room when McGinnest asked him a direct question about it.

Everyone who has played competitive sports knows that it's tough at times and that your feelings are often beat-up. It's hard to not be viewed as good enough after you have put so much blood, sweat, and tears into a passion. That is a human angle that most of us can relate to. If I were in Baker's camp and he insisted on doing the podcast, I would have pleaded w/him to say that while he was hurt and disappointed about how his time in Cleveland came to an end, but then thanked the Browns for the opportunity they provided him. Then, adding in something like how he believed in himself and how he is going to use this as motivation to do everything possible to become the absolute best player he can be and that his resolve in succeeding as a QB in the NFL has only been strengthened by this temporary setback. Trashing teammates, blaming coaching changes, wanting to boo fans, using the injuries as an excuse after the medical staff cleared him to play, etc is not the "adult" and professional way to handle the situation.

I didn't have much problem with what Mayfield had to say. He came off a little bit whiny, but overall seemed like a good guy who's motivated to prove his detractors wrong. I do have a problem with choosing this group of frat-boy slappies in this venue to make his case. The host kept trying to be this zen master waxing all magical/mysical about God-knows-what. It was like Oprah meets Dude Perfect.

IMO, Baker should have showed up on a mainstream show like Dan Patrick, Jim Rome, or even his nemesis Colin Cowherd. He should have dressed in big boy clothes, NOT nut-hugger shorts, and tried to conduct his first interview with a prospective new team. Bloodied but unbowed, humbled but still determined to be better from it. Instead he chose a dormitory bull session that has the people who put out the grown-up in the QB room narrative saying "See?".

jc...

The agenda continues....

And the Baker bashing continues. Look it common sense when a partner wants you gone you will go on the defensive. The Browns were the ones who told Baker they were moving forward. DW actually said no to the Brown's advances and all are shocked and amazed that Baker doesn't kiss their hand - like anyone would he went into screw you mode. Baker in no way is a bust. All this crapolla about if he was good he would be signed already. Sit back and just "THINK" its at the point when most teams are at their bottom cap dollars..and now there is Baker if traded you have to pick up the 18+milliion dollars most of which is guaranteed. If a bust I ask you, why was he given a 18+ million dollar extension? Some you with this Baker hate is just silly.

So teams are waiting for the Browns to "RELEASE" Baker. It has been shown already by OBJ if you Squeak the loudest you will get released. In Baker's case its guaranteed. Time to move on have an opinion that is ok but this constant bashing I think is tasteless. The Browns clearly have move on. I think the move was unwise not in DW's prowess as a QB but he has some serious baggage that could damage this team NOT BAKER - saying he is a bust does not make it so. The kid will have a good career - I just hope he doesn't go with the Steelers.

Did you watch the whole thing? Did you watch the McGuinest & Pioli takes? Interested to know what the context was on the short clips they played.

I remembered reading this post last night and wanted to respond.

OBJ has not expressed or commented anywhere that he would consider coming back to the Browns. The only reaction was a pair of eyes tweeted next to the news Browns signed Watson. Nothing more.

It was 👀 when someone asked if he would go back to Cleveland.

Stop picking on Vers! You know, like he claims me, mgh and purp do. You know when he thinks that, his feelings get hurt, you get put on his list and he starts sounding like Baker.

That was it.

This kind of thing happens a lot in professional sports. When an owner comes out and says that a coach or GM has nothing to worry about, it is time for them to start worrying.

Yet many of the same posters who say that claim that when the Browns claim they carefully vetted their new QB their word is golden. It seems they wish to have it both ways. My point is that as a person I can easily see why someone would take it more personal when they make a public statement about you and do the opposite. Sure it's not the way everyone would address it and if you look further in that post you will see that I didn't approve of the way he handled it. But to me there's a big difference in saying I would have handled it differently and having the ability to understand how a person in Baker's position would have felt. It's simply that often times its best if you don't make such public responses based on your emotions when it can have a negative impact on your future employment. This may be one such example.

I find it very odd what some seem to make a big deal out of while trying to trivialize and minimize much bigger issues. As we can easily see, if one QB can get a record contract with so much hanging over his head and demanding a trade because he didn't to pick his own HC, trying to imply a statement like this is going to have a huge negative impact on Baker's career is nothing more than hot air by those who wish to crucify him.

I watched an hour and then I couldn't take anymore bro-ness, especially interviewer-bro.

What?!

There is no such thing as too much bro-ness or bro-titude, bro!

jc -

A lot of hand wringing over Baker's value and if the Browns overplayed their hand.

Who cares. The Browns have a legit top QB with no football question marks. They LEGIT (all caps) are super bowl contenders.

Can't wait for off season programs and training camp. For the first time in awhile I am hopeful without an unease that usually accompanied my excitement.

Great qualifier.

Correct. That's all I care about. What happens on the field.

Winning at all costs seems to be a popular theme these days.

A YouTube video was posted that addressed some of Baker's statements from his podcast. The commentators were both in the NFL for a long time. Some can't address the points made in the video and resort to attacking the poster who made the video public. But, they are not the ones w/the agenda.

I think that the Browns could have handled things better, but Baker has to take some accountability for his comments to the media about moving on and the crap he said in the podcast. Saying things like some players don't want to win and are only in it for the money is so dumb. I don't think teams want his drama and they don't think he is a very good qb.

Rish, I had actually given up hope of the Browns being a Super Bowl contender after I saw how much some of the AFC QBs progressed and how other good ones were brought into the conference. I thought it was imperative to have a stud qb to make it through the rigors of the loaded AFC. I'm not saying we are going to the Super Bowl, but we now have a shot at it because we have a stud QB!

Link Vers?

Thanks for the reasoned response, Dave.

j/c...

Ouch.

I'm going to believe this when I see it ... same as this year (last season) ... been bitten too many times. I'm sort of preparing myself for a long ban that will be a new precedent and contrary to what we have seen with other players. I'm preparing myself for DW not to be a cold/bad weather QB. On paper and based on the eye test - he should be a top 5 QB. Maybe top 3. But even if I am not expecting the worst now that he's a Brown, I am sort of preparing myself for things to somehow go sideways.

A link to what, Irish?

Probably the youtube video you mentioned trying to show that selective comments taken from an hour and a half video by two former players who now depend on their media careers for success are giving an accurate depiction of the truth with no media sensationalism.

The video is on page 3. They showed actual footage from Baker's podcast. They commented on Baker's comment. I can't believe anyone believe that Baker is making a wise career move by trashing other players, his coaches, and the fans. But again.......I am not criticizing anyone who has an alternative opinion and thinks that those things are going to benefit him. We are all entitled to our opinions.

Irish, here is the link if that is indeed what you were asking for.

I guess you didn't actually read my posts. I said it was a bad move on his part. And I knew where the video was and watched it. I also watched the complete original video in its entirety for further context. As I said, you can take selective quotes out of it and paint the picture you want when not seeing it in its entirety.

I wonder if trading Baker to the Panthers would become more viable if we took on Darnold’s contract. Baker for Darnold and a pick. Then pay someone else to either take Darnold’s contract or pay down some of it to move him for a late round pick.

Excuse for not having posted earlier but there seems to be enough
Posters typing.

The reason why nobody has traded for Mayfield is
If Mayfield performs like his 12 win year.
he will demand a contract north of Mahomes and deshaun.
No gm will knowingly go into that situation

Sigh,, yup it does

Panthers aren't a very good team - I think Rhule is going to be done after this year. Feel like it'd be a bad situation for Baker... but then again maybe he'd get a ton of garbage time yards and plays?

I really don't want to do this, but using the word "agenda" has been a long-time tactic of dismissing what another poster has to say. Everyone has an agenda unless they are a complete simpleton. However, the discussion should center around who has a worthy agenda and whom does not. For example, I can point to some things that are pretty hard to dispute.

--Did Baker receive the contract extension he desired last year after his "great 9-game stretch?"
--Did the Browns go after another QB and decide to not bring Baker back?
--Did Baker not say it was best for both parties to move on?
--Did Baker say he wanted to go to Indy and did the Colts actually trade for Matt Ryan who is way older and probably way more expensive?
--Did the Texans accept Baker in the trade for Watson?
--Were other QBs such as Goff and Lock not part of big trades for QBs?
--Has Baker been traded to anyone?
--Are there reports out there that Baker lost the locker room?
--Did Baker work w/a QB coach during the previous off-seasons?
--Has Baker not thrown more interceptions than any other qb since 2018?
--Was Baker ranked 31st in QBR in one-score games in the 4th quarter since 2018?
--Did Baker rank last in 4th quarter QBR last season?
--Was Baker ranked 30th, only ahead of two rookies on terrible teams, in Expected Completion rate?
--Did Baker talk about how many head coaches and offensive coordinators he has had?
--Did Baker say that some players don't care about winning and instead are only worried about their retirement fund?
--Was the video I posted by a former GM and a HOF caliber player not accurate in what they addressed?
--Has Baker ran his mouth over and over on social media?
--Has Baker's wife trashed the Brown's receivers, questioned the toughness of other players, and called Brown's fans front-runners and idiots?

I don't know........but, when a poster comes out w/a statement like "the agenda continues" w/out any context to prove that Pioli and McGinnest are liars and dubbed Baker's responses, I think the word agenda applies more to that particular poster and those who agree w/him. Have a nice life, Daman.

Its funny how the pro-Baker crowd thinks Baker should be immune from bashing or
Criticism. It also funny how some posters had absolute meltdowns when the Watson
Trade was announced. They acted like the Browns had a SB contending team
With Baker and now their hopes were dashed.
He simply is a number 1 overall pick that got outplayed by other QBs drafted
In.his class and he failed to get the Browns to any kind of title game in 4-yrs
I mean how much time were the Browns supposed to give him?

At this point we shouldn't worry about what would be good for Baker. I doubt he is worried about what would be a good situation for the Browns or us fans.

I'm not worried for Baker at all. He's getting $18m regardless and as I've said multiple times no one cares about his feelings. I will be interested where he goes, whether he starts and how well he plays. I think many will.

I think it's vastly premature to say the Browns are "LEGIT " Super Bowl contenders with the addition of Watson. This statement would be highly dependent on what a Super Bowl contender consists of in the eye of the beholder. So, what are the expectations and goals for a Watson led Cleveland Browns "LEGIT" Super Bowl Contender?

1. The thought process is that the Browns have significantly upgraded the QB position. The Browns have added a top 3 QB (as stated on this forum) and the expectations are now that Watson can carry the team where a Mayfield could not. Considering such a huge upgrade combined with 230M guaranteed, anything less than a 3-game improvement would be considered a failure - Watson's expectation level should be a minimum of 11 wins.

2. Excuses are moot now that the Browns have a top 3 QB, Baker's #1 WR only played 13 out of 35 games in 2-years so if Cooper goes down it shouldn't matter. If Conklin misses 11 games in 2022 Watson is still expected to win. If Wills misses 4-games Watson should still win. Hunt missing 9-games and Chubb missing 3-games should have no bearing on the win expectation level. In reality, if Watson is dealt the exact same hand, him being such an upgrade should bear a minimum of 3 additional wins. If all play uninjured, wouldn't a 5-game improvement be the expectation? Afterall, playing as an injured QB combined with all the other issues as listed above, Baker has taken all the blame for the Browns failures in 2021 forcing the team to upgrade the position for 230M. Shouldn't the expectation level be significantly higher given the same circumstances for Watson a top 3 QB? 11 wins should be the minimum bar no matter what happens up to an including Watson missing 3 games or playing while injured.

3. If the Browns don't add another single player from FA to the offense, the offense is already as good if not better than the 2021 team that was fielded on opening day 2021. The 2021 team was expected to be a Super Bowl contender, with the team being improved, how high is that minimum bar? With a 230M investment in the QB upgrade, anything less than the AFC Championship game should be considered a failure.

4. Though not controlled by Watson, fielding at least an equal defense to what the Browns did in 2021 shouldn't have an effect on Watson's expectations. That said, DE replacement or resigning of Clowney needs to be a priority. At defensive interior, the Browns were the worst graded Defensive Interior in 2021 with Malik Jackson grading out at 44.4 and rated 98th out of 109 rated DT's. Malik McDowell graded out at 46.5 and rated 92nd out of 109 rated DT's. Jordan Elliott graded out at 41.6 and rated 102nd out of 109 rated DT's. At this point, it doesn't matter what player is inserted at DI - it would be an upgrade, so the defense is set once the Browns address the DE issue comparing 2021 to 2022.

Bottom line is compared to the opening offensive lineup in 2021, the Browns have been significantly upgraded without any more additions. Compared to 2021, once the DE situation is addressed, the Browns are equal to or better than the 2021 team with what they have for 2022. All things considered, Watson's 230M investment should carry an expectation of a minimum of 3 more wins without excuse and a march to the championship game. Anything less would have to be considered a failure.

One of the greatest QB's of all time, HOF Dan Marino, only made it to one Super Bowl which was in his 2nd year of a 17-year career. Getting to the Super Bowl is hard but the Browns have addressed the single reason they have not made it to the Super Bowl yet - a franchise QB. The expectations should be no less than the Super Bowl for 230M reasons since they've addressed that reason.

Expectations for the Browns season are opinions and each of us will have our own opinion. No doubt, the Baker fans are going to say are going to say the move to get Watson was a failure if the team doesn't win the Super Bowl. That is a given. However, folks who are more objective in their thinking will have different opinions. Those opinions will almost certainly vary from person to person.

My opinion is that Watson gives us a shot at competing for the Super Bowl because he is an elite qb who can elevate his team. I am not sure where I would rank him because that is such a subjective topic, but he is up there w/the best qbs in the league. I might start a thread about ranking the qbs. It could be interesting, but would probably get hijacked much like the AFC Contenders thread was.

Back to the Browns and the Super Bowl. Again, I think Watson is good enough to help us win the Super Bowl, but there are other factors. Right now, the AFC is freaking loaded and there are so many other great qbs in the conference. I think the Browns would have a much better chance if they were in the NFC. I do think the Browns had some losses. Unlike most, I think OBJ is an elite receiver. I am also a huge fan of Landry. Losing those two guys is disappointing. Tretter is a very good center and that is going to hurt because he was the brains of the OL and called out the blocking adjustments. I never understood why the Browns didn't bring Richardson back last year and the DT position is a concern. They lost out on acquiring a good Edge guy in FA and if Clowney isn't re-signed, that position could be a weakness. Some things need to be addressed because we got weaker at multiple spots. I'm surprised we haven't made at least a couple of more moves in FA, especially after we went all-in w/Watson.

On the positive side, we have two great RBs. I think our OL will still be among the best in the league. We now have an elite QB. The TE's are average, but that is okay. I'm not a huge Cooper fan because he kind of melts in the clutch, but he put up big numbers. Bringing Landry back would be huge. DPJ can contribute and this year's draft class is strong. We still have Myles on the D-line and hopefully can get Clowney back. I really like JOK and our LBere corps is adequate. We have three very good corners and that is so important. I'm not too high on the safeties, but they aren't terrible as a unit.

Overall, I think we need a few more pieces to get back to having the overall great roster that we had in two years ago, but we still have time to get that done. So yeah, I think the Browns have a chance to get to the Super Bowl and even win it. I did not feel that way before they made the trade for Watson.

The excuse-making will start in 3...2...oops...it's already started.

?

He's trying to start another fight.

I think WSU is maybe highlighting that for many of the fans unhappy with Baker and who thought Baker was a bum/one dimensional/bad/way below average NFL QB - the only thing stopping the Browns last year was Baker. In discussions - his injury, the WR core, the injuries to the OL and RB's, the pedestrian TE play .... all were labeled as excuses and deflections from Baker's play. I think now that we have (apparently) got ourselves a bonafide top QB (we can debate if he's supposed to be top 10, top 5 or top 3)... are the same set of criteria in play - that no matter what happens at the other positions, the expectation is for Watson to put the team on his back and win no matter what?

You've already made a post stating you think that is the expectation. I think WSU and steve0255 are indicating that they expect that posters will shift their viewpoint now. WSU may be indicating that viewpoints seemingly have already shifted. The WR core was expected to be good enough for Baker - when people talked about our WR's being ranged by PFF very low, it was sort of dismissed by many as an excuse. Now we have DW some of those posters who were happy with the WR core last year are already indicating that even with Cooper (better than any WR we have had on the team for years) isn't enough and we need to continue to improve the WR position.

Just a guess but that's how I read it. I'm not sure how serious Steve or WSU are being, or whether they are highlighting some slight double standards being set. I don't really care. I want the WR to be improved - I would have for Baker and I do for DW. I want the play calling to highlight and play to DW's strengths, just like I would have for Baker. Essentially whoever is playing QB - put them and the team in the best position to succeed. No doubt there will be some disagreements along the way and no doubt some will make excuses for DW that they never extended to Baker.

I think it's simple. I will make excuses for Watson if I believe he is good and his play is being brought down by those around him. I did not believe Baker was good or that his play was being brought down by those around him. I believe Baker brought down the play of others. There is overwhelming evidence, both objective and subjective, of Baker being a bad QB. If the overwhelming evidence of this is still not convincing to some I can only file that away as an emotional investment in the guy that belies any kind of objectivity at all. I know you don't like the emotional label, but it's the only thing that applies when faced with the mountain of evidence compared to the molehill of contrary evidence (Baker had some good moments and stretches for sure).

This is not rocket science. Most people who watch football and can be objective can tell if someone is good and how they are impacting or being impacted by the play of those around them.

Where the problem lies with some of you is trying to connect the dots that the reaction of the team signing watson is directly connected to some love or huge fandom of Baker. I can't speak for everyone else but I can speak for myself. For me the two factors are not connected. Trying to paint everyone with a broad brush that way is in no way correct.

The NFL is a business. Players will come and go. Trades happen and FO's are always trying to upgrade their team. There's no more important position on the field than QB. I don't think most of the posters on this board lack the ability to understand that. So when trying to deflect and proclaim that replacing Baker is the issue it's a convenient way to try and dismiss the reality of the situation. That reality is that some of us are not bothered by the fact that the Browns upgraded the QB position, it's the player they chose to make that upgrade with that's the issue.

Like constantly calling people out...calling people evil...calling people lairs...you mean THAT kind of fight?

Yep. I would edit that for my own opinion to say "now...what are we going to do to get better". Because last year's receiving options were awful...the top (3) aren't even on the team right now and the top (2) are still un-signed. Cooper should be a stud...I'm not comfortable with him being the only upgrade though.

Here you go Rish:

Underlined for your easy reading. This entire post could have been made this time last year as well.

j/c:

This thread is actually a Baker thread. There are numerous Watson threads. There is also a thread about Super Bowl contenders and the Browns are considered in that thread. I am not going to get into a back-and-forth w/a poster who wants to fight to shift the focus away from Baker and into yet another personal confrontation.

I want to get back to Baker making the comments about how some players don't want to win and only play for their retirement fund and how he used having so many head coaches and offensive coordinators as an excuse. I can't fathom how anyone believes that his value will decrease due those types of things because other players and teams might be even more wary about bringing him in.

I certainly do not disagree with you. As we can see some posters strongly consider the supporting cast of watson when he was with the Texans as a reason to consider his limited W's and playoff appearances. If they would do that across the board it might be nice.

In 2020 watson had Brandon Cooks, Will Fuller, Randal Cobb and Kenny Stills as his WR's.

They don't have anything even close to that on the Browns roster.

But I'm not actually worried that it will remain that way. Surely you don't make watson the "230 million dollar man" and not give him the weapons to produce with, right?

[quote=Versatile Dog]j/c:

Once again...the Agenda-Man tries to tell everyone else what to post and what not to post. If it's a Baker thread, then why did you mention Watson (3x), OBJ, Landry, Tretter, the RBs, TEs and Richardson just a few posts up? So hypocritical that it's comedy.

Absolutely...and I only care because I want to win. I was "over" Baker about 30 minutes after the trade for Watson was announced. But that doesn't mean I won't call out total BS about the guy when I read it. Others just can't get over their irrational hate for Baker.

Not only the player but what the expectation is with him under center. It is clear and pointed out by many that the only reason for the Browns poor play in 2021 was Mayfield. The poor PFF ranking of the WR's was due to Baker. Only having your #1 WR for 13 of 35 games over 2-years was clearly Mayfield's fault. Not throwing to a receiver who was only available 37% of the time over 2-years and not 100% about 80% of the time he played makes Mayfield a crappy QB.

When you lay all that blame on one player while ignoring all the other issues, upgrading the position is basically saying that the Browns would have won last year if only Mayfield wasn't playing QB. Mayfield isn't playing QB for the Browns anymore and they have spent 230M to secure that upgrade. All things considered, if presented with the exact same 2021 circumstances, a Watson led Browns team is now guaranteed a playoff position with a very deep playoff run. Afterall, Watson has already been presented with an upgraded WR room - has a franchised tag TE - and a dedicated QB coach. Why wouldn't the expectation be no less than the playoffs with a deep run? Would Mayfield have been given the excuse of the AFC being freaking loaded, that there are so many great QB's in the conference, or that some things need to be addressed because we got weaker at multiple spots? None of these or what happened in 2021 has been acceptable for Baker Mayfield.

Even less should be acceptable for the #3 QB with a 230M guaranteed contract being given a better team than his predecessor had to play with in 2021. If the Browns were able to get to the 2nd round of the playoffs with a Baker Mayfield playing without his #1 WR then upgrading to the #3 QB, paying 230M guaranteed, and upgrading the offense should at a minimum be expected to take the team further - without question.

In most cases I don't think it's a hate for Baker but there are certainly cases of it around here. For the most part I think it's more an issue of rabid fans that wish to move on. To move forward. I have seen it my entire life. Fans support and form opinions based strictly on the uniform a player is wearing. Once a player no longer wears that uniform or the team has moved on from them, suddenly that opinion changes.

Often times I think, at least in Baker's case, fans searched for reasons to support him more than they felt he was actually the QB to lead this team to a SB win. So I think what we're seeing now is more a reflection of how some of them felt all along but just didn't want to admit it to themselves. Then we do have fans that show great disdain for him and make reaches of epic proportions to paint him in the most negative light possible. So I see some of both. In other cases I see fans that never really supported him at all. It's a mixed bag at best.

You are entitled to your opinion and I won't perform a character assassination like others in this forum resort to. I will just say that I did not put all the blame on Baker. Of course, there were contributing factors. I'm not ignorant. I just think he is a bottom tier qb. Unlike some of the things I have read on here, I don't think the scheme was terrible or the play calling was awful. I don't think the OL sucked. I don't even think the receivers were the worst in the league like some claim. I think Baker looked pretty good at the end of teh 2020 season when everything was absolutely perfect. Even w/that, I still saw the flaws in his game. The FO apparently did, too. They did not give him the big contract that Baker desired. And let's be real here........this board is not typical of how the rest of the NFL world view Baker. He was always the question mark. Many, many pundits repeatedly stated that the Browns had as good of--or better--roster than any team in the league.

I am not asking you to agree w/my takes. I refuse to criticize you for your takes. We can debate the topic like mature adults. Thus far, while I think you thoughts on Baker and the Browns are slanted, I respect that you do not resort to character attacks and name-calling like others love to do. So, I'll debate you if we can do so politely. Different takes are a good thing and I've never been one of those people that think everyone has to feel the same way or they are a terrible person.

I understand what you're saying. But then does that also apply to those who have tried to lump everyone who opposes Watson coming to Cleveland meaning it's because they are somehow in love with Baker? Because that's a very stereotypical, broad brush portrayal that often times doesn't apply.

I've tried not to respond to that little outburst... but seriously, how pathetic does someone need to be to call others 'evil' on a football forum when their misinformation and use of 'secret locker room sources' is challenged? And of course the thread needs to change direction now that people are talking about something of substance ... exactly par for the course. Get used to it.

As for Baker and his "interview" - Bro-hugging or whatever you call that. I guess maybe I'll bring myself to watch it. But I guess we all need to pile on and call Baker an idiot for doing it to make some posters happy. No-one I know of defending him for doing it or what he said... But to be honest - if the two sound bites on that McGinest and Pioli clip are the worst of what he said (which let's face it they must be) - then it is not all that bad. I've already stated I think everything McGinest and Pioli said was fair and balanced and I think Baker is stupid for making any public comments about his feelings or his side of things ... no-one cares.

Are you for real? Do you mean like calling others "evil"?

I don't think that everyone who opposes Watson signing here is trashing him and the Browns because of Baker. I have no problem w/anyone who would stop rooting for the Browns because they are disgusted by the charges levied against him. I'm not like some folks who think what team you root for is some sort of ceremonial obligation. I think it's fun to root for teams and have teams you despise. It's tribal and it's ingrained in our dna. However, I don't think it's important as to which team you love or hate. Hell, I married a woman who had season tix to the Steelers and I had them for the Browns. It's a game, not a moral compass.

I personally believe that the moral and criminal issues belong in a forum that isn't Pure Football. I like sports as an entertainment and use them to escape all the blabbering about religion, politics, morals, etc. However, it was decided that the rules of the forum would be changed in this particular circumstance. I've accepted that and rarely even open that thread. We all have free choice here. I don't have to read that thread if I don't want just like others don't have to read my posts if they think I am so "pathetic" and "nauseating." I do think these personal issues between posters should be handled in PMs, but I also think that folks resort to these character attacks not to debate w/the person they are disagreeing with, but instead, try to get others to gang-up on that "pathetic," "nauseating" person.

Thanks for that clarification. That wasn't the impression i had until you just explained it. I also would say what one considers trashing to be is purely subjective. That's just another way of taking a subtle jab at those with a differing opinion.


I understand that there are posters who feel that way. I think where others disagree is that the distractions this will create, the implications a future suspension may create and all of the negative media attention this will create, and already has, will direrctly impact the Browns. As such it will have an impact on the "pure football" side of things



I have seen zero evidence that anyone "decided that the rules of this forum would be changed" to accommodate that content. I think it's simply a matter of interpretation of what some perceive belongs here and what they don't.

j/c:



Can't read this article because I'd never pay for Cleveland.com content, but here you go anyways. Curious as to the "several" term used in the headline.

J/C

I don't know if the Robby Anderson comment was so much about not wanting Baker as it was about wanting the Panthers to sign Kaepernick.

It's funny how Kaepernick compared the NFL to slavery, but has continually tried to get back in.

He needs to continue to give the impression he wants in but is not allowed to continue to push the narrative that he is not allowed back in due to racism so he can make money elsewhere.

I hate saying this because it sounds snarky, but yeah, Kap isn't really interested in returning to the league. Even Steven A. Smith said it was a publicity stunt. Kap is milking this to make more money and is using how much he "sacrificed." Dude is a fraud. Always has been. Most football people knew his future in the NFL was pretty much done even before he took the knee. Dude got benched for Blaine Gabbert. I remember a discussion on this board [pre-kneeling] about trading for Kap and I said "hell no, he sucks." He got rich duping America. Good for him.

I do think it is somewhat humorous that Baker vs Kap preference is now being debated. Not too long ago.......I read one poster who likes to shout at others a lot say that he couldn't compare any current NFL qb to Baker. He said even Brees wasn't an adequate comparison. He said the closest comparison was Joe Montana. I read other guys who said they wouldn't take any qb over Baker. Others said he was top 3 or top 5.

But yeah, you know.........I'm the one w/the agenda.

"I like Baker" - I am Root from guardian of the Galaxy.

Carolina WR Robbie Anderson doubled down on him not wanting Baker to be the qb of the team. Check this out.



https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-not-want-baker-mayfield-as-quarterback/

Earlier this morning, I was watching Get Up and they were discussing Anderson's comments and how that is wild because of how a QB and WR are linked. It's not a LBer saying those things. Different points were being made and Dan Orlovsky was defending Baker. Kimberly Marting, who covered a lot of the Browns games, said there definitely was a problem w/Baker and the locker room. She said players wanted to keep OBJ and move on from Baker.

I think word gets around and Baker's arrogant, selfish, abrasive behavior, and not taking accountability is catching up w/him. I'm sure his recent comments about some players not wanting to win and only caring about their retirement fund is not winning him any new admirers.

Maybe they just wanted the commercials to stop? . . . .
Any truth to his comments? I am ready to move on.

It's just the slant someone wishes to present by people who depend on controversy and shock value to get ratings.

Robbie Anderson is a nobody WR who cares what he thinks..lol

Does he know Baker or does he get his opinion from the HERD or is that TERD...

SO can't wait for this BASH BAKER Thread to just stop. Meanwhile he's making over 18 mil guaranteed....who are the dummies who gave that contract. The ones who know him best did.
jmho

Robbie Anderson messing with another man's money? Nah...he's a truth-teller and a well-respected scout in the NFL. It's comedy.

Denial too, is a remote location. One so well masked that many people deny having even heard of it, let alone having been trapped in it.~~~Liberty Hunter.

Robbie Anderson is a pass dropper's pass dropper. I'm sure that Carolina is horribly concerned with what he thinks about just about anything.

You sir are no Liberty Hunter.

GM reprimanded him and clearly wants Baker.

Carolina (Or Seattle), Give me a 3rd (Gives Us Three Thirds) and a 5th and take Bakers Salary , I'm Good

Its funny how Baker is considered a franchise QB on this board but around the league
The opinion on him is evident. He is not considered a,franchise QB by any team.he at best is
A potential backup. Robby Anderson is a dime a dozen WR. But he ecboes a.common sentiment
Around the NFL concerning Mayfield.
Players in this day and age will publicly go on social media and will campaign and try to recruit
Available upper tier proven playmakers to join their team. Happens all the time
But Baker is the only player I know that has been told "no stay away"
WRs want no part of Mayfield. Its documented.
Baker is yesterdays 1st RD flop. He isnt the 1st and he wont be the last.

I really don't see hardly anyone who has made the claim that Baker is a "franchise QB" and even that term itself is vague that means different things to different people.

And where did you come up with the idea that what Robby Anderson "ecboes a.common sentiment Around the NFL concerning Mayfield"?

Mayfield certainly isn't a top level QB in the NFL. He has shown he can be a winner and he has shown inconsistency. As far as QB play watson is a huge upgrade on the field. Results prove that Mayfield is a QB who can lead a team to the playoffs. What is not believed by many and certainly a sentiment that is shared by this FO, is that Mayfield isn't a QB who can lead your team to a SB victory. Trashing a QB who led this team to it's first playoff win since our return isn't exactly an enviable position to take.

I understand why this FO wanted to upgrade the QB position. They did so. But it's not because they saw Mayfield as hot garbage.

I think at the end of 2020 there were quite a few who were willing to say Baker was the Browns FQB. He finished the season in great form and was rated very highly over an extended period (9 games) by PFF as a top QB. In 2021 he played a good game vs Kansas City but lost - and then was hurt for the rest of the season. So there was a 10 game skid where Baker played really well - it included the 22-22 completions against the Bengals. I guess it comes down to which is the more likely of two scenarios:

1. The 10 game streak of games playing very well - top 5 QB grade by PFF - and the 22 completions in a row and nearly beating KC in the playoffs if not for a missed targeting call .... was a complete fluke and 2021 was the "real" Baker and the injury had little impact.

2. The 10 game streak indicates Baker's ceiling - he can be very good but then the injury happened and 2021 isn't much of an indication of how good Baker can be.

I'm not suggesting Baker is or will be a top 5 QB .... That just happens to be the PFF grade he got over that period of time. But I do believe he is an above average QB in the NFL and will probably give you the same or potentially a little better than the likes of Cousins, Carr, Jimmy G.

My biggest issue with Baker at the moment is the interview and public comments ... no-one cares about your feelings, or what you think/thought ... just get healthy, work hard and do your talking on the next team and opportunity you are given.

The Panthers signed Baker's favorite WR. (Higgins) They are going to get him.

It's as logical a reason as any other floating around here.

The best argument for Carolina getting Baker is Sam Darnold, assuming they want to be competitive.

If the Panthers traded for Baker they’d have $36 million committed to Baker and Darnold. We’d have to eat quite a bit of money for that move to take place. That’s why I say we trade Baker for Darnold and a pick then trade Darnold and a lesser pick into a team’s cap space.

That is not even close to being true.

Its pretty much understood that trading Mayfield will involve paying a significant part ($6-8M) of his 2022 salary. What they do with Darnold is their problem. If we end up having to keep Mayfield on the roster until someone needs him - and I believe they will - then I say do it.

What I don't understand is why is so important for you to have Baker a flop...right now he is an incomplete in most expert rankings unlike Darnold and some others. He is not a Brown...but I think it is possible we made a mistake big time if we lose DW to indefinite suspension. I hope Baker goes to an NFC team cause his best football is ahead of him. And no Vers I am not HOPING ill things on DW. Its out there and its scary cause of all that we invested in him and gave up.

jmho

I am curious ... how is Baker an incomplete while Darnold is not?

The Saints... as for the cap hit, no team that trades for Baker will need to take the whole salary will they?

Because Baker had an extended period of time where he graded out as one of the best in the league. That carried over to 2021 for 1 game, then an injury derailed it fairly quickly. To say the injuries he sustained in 2021 had very little impact on his game, imho, is an excuse for those who don't like his personality. I can't understand how these injuries wouldn't effect his throwing motion, which for an athlete at that level, changes everything he does. IF 2020 was an indicator of his abilities AND he refrains from making tackles, could Baker Mayfield develop into a consistent top ten QB? Yes... If 2020 was an anomaly, then this is a moot point.

Darnold hasn't had a streak of any kind with consistent top level play. He has shown what he is, which is consistently lower tier.

When evaluating Baker, the end of 2020 HAS to be taken into consideration.

1. I think in the eyes of Haslam , he flopped.When a QB is drafted #1
overall the expectations are at least a SB appearance.
Haslam probally reasoned Mayfield cant get the Browns to the big game.

2.Haslam probably gave Mayfield up.to 5 years to get it done.
But when Watson became available,it was too alluding to turn down.

3. I think Baker needs a year to sit behind a upper tier QB and just
Absorb all he can.

4. Mayfield I think could prosper in a more uptempo offense.

5.He needs to work on processing defenses faster when the pocket
Is collapsing. Why he was able to beat the Bengals was because
The Bengals could not establish a pass rush. Which is ironic cause
The Bengals have a really good pass rush but anyhow....

6. Baker needs to put more time in the film room.

I doubt it. I don't think anybody will trade for him if we demand they pay the whole salary. We are probably going to have to eat 8-10 mil. That or we will have to do something similar to a Osweiler deal...Baker, his salary, and a 3rd rounder and we get a 4th. I just don't see us getting any value back if we don't pay a large portion of his salary. Even there we probably won't get much.

In almost every way we just don't have any leverage in this deal. The only thing we have going for us is that by trading for the guy, a team doesn't have to coax him to their team.

Even then we don't have much. I am sure that any team thinking of making the trade is going to seek permission to talk with the guy. If baker doesn't like the team, he can just tell them he won't sign with them after this season, killing any potential deal.

Just as important as that is that Baker will look good in Carolina blue.

So at this point in time how many are saying that? Maybe the problem is the difference in what we think "hardly anyone" means. Or maybe you think what someone said a year or two ago has some meaning as of now.

Great answer with football content. You know, that thing you preach at others about.

You don't see the irony do you?

It would only be ironic and hypocrisy if Pit spent a large amount of time telling others that what to post, why to post, and challenging them when they didn't post about something he wanted them to.

To add - I thought the answer Pit gave on who/how many and when posters may have talked about hoping Baker was a FQB was a decent post.

Or it would be ironic if he likes to tell people they aren't posting football content after they disagree with him, especially when he posts for the fight.

Hmmmm........wonder who wrote this?


I will try for about the 20th time. How about we ignore one another for the good of the board? You can say whatever you like about how great Baker is and how he was so unfairly treated and I won't say a word. In return, you stop badgering me and allow me to express my opinions.

You rewrote the history of OBJ... You claimed you had a secret inside source that said Baker was a locker room cancer. You got called out for it. You then went on a several post rant calling me evil. You then completely and totally misrepresented anything I have said on the DW issues.... Then you liked a post by someone who was talking to a poster about not responding to the content of his post.... And then you did exactly that the next day to Mac. You disappeared for a few months and returned when Baker was leaving and spent a bunch of time and posts framing the football talk around bashing an outgoing QB - during your absence, with the exception of one or two issues like the DWs legal issues, the animosity in football talk all but dwindled to a murmur.

So I'll comment on what I choose to. If you stop your rewriting of hiatory and hypocrisy I won't have to respond. That's pretty easy right?

So, you aren't telling me how and what to post, right? LMAO.........you keep doing you.

Where did Vers claim he had a secret inside source? I didn't see that posted.

Pretty sure it was a different person who posted it.

To get back to football, I'll answer this as best I can.

Right now, I think Baker is a better qb than Darnold. he was ranked 30th by PFF this year and Darnold was something like 36th. I think both are bottom tier qbs. I also think that they are similar in some ways and different in others.

Similarities:
Both struggle reading coverages. Their processing skills are among the very worst in the NFL. I actually think Darnold is worse than Baker at this. Both make bad decisions. They panic and don't trust their eyes. I think both guys panic way too often.

Differences:

Baker has performed better, but his supporting cast on offense was far and away better than Darnold's. It's not even close despite what some folks on here want you to believe. People say they love analytics and then ignore them when it comes to Baker. No qb has thrown more picks than Baker since 2018. Baker had the worst 4th quarter QBR of any qb in the league last year. Since 2018, Baker is 31st in QBR in one-score games in the 4th quarter. Darnold is a much better athlete. Darnold does not have the reputation of being abrasive, fighting people on social media, alienating teammates like Baker does. Baker has been much more productive than Darnold and while circumstances matter, it has to be considered.

Bottom line:

In my opinion, neither are desirable as your starting QB. People can throw all the insults my way that they want, but pretty much every thing I have said has come true about both of those guys. The Jets moved on from Darnold. Carolina wants to move on from Darnold. The Browns are moving on from Baker. No one is offering squat for him despite him being paid a low salary in comparison to other qbs. Blaming teammates, coaching changes, calling out fans, etc is a terrible look and I think most teams don't want any part of his middle-school drama. Darnold seems like a good guy. He doesn't do the dumb stuff like Baker does, but his processing skills and inability to read coverages are dreadful.

I didn't. He has a penchant for misquoting me in hopes that I respond so we start yet another fight.

For the record, I do not have an inside source on the Browns. I used to, but that was long ago. I still talk to a couple of NFL guys once or twice a blue moon, but no inside source on the OBJ thing. That info is out there if you know how to look for it.

Pretty sure it was me. I just threw that comment out there because it was a factor in my feelings about Baker. I don't care if people believe me or not. I just don't want others attacked for my comments..

Hey Eve.........I know you love Baker and I respect that. I feel bad that I am slamming him because I know that are a bunch of you who really like Baker. I respect all of your opinions and won't challenge them. There are just a few guys on here that resort to dirty tactics and they actually encourage me to post more about Baker. Not sure if that makes any sense or not, but I appreciate folks like you, Dave, YTown, PDawg, jfan, Fate, Irish etc who really like Baker and not questioning my character as a debate tactic. For example, I didn't totally agree w/the take Irish made, and he did make some valid points. I just didn't question him on the parts I disagreed with because he made his points w/out attacking the character of those he disagreed with. This board would be a better place if we were more tolerant of opposing opinions.

No worries. I dont have any issues with your opinions. I previously posted about not liking the whole QB drama when we first traded for Watson. I said my piece and am done with it. Dont need to beat a dead horse.

If it was you not Vers - then I owe Vers an apology. I could have sworn that when Purp called Vers out for his reinventing the history of OBJ in CLE he also referred to this "source" that wasn't backed up by any supporting reporting of any sort ... but I must have been incorrect.....So while Vers didn't create a secret source - he most certainly created an entirely false reality about OBJ leaving.

No, I said I did not lie, but you do you. If you are referring to before Purp's comment, I said OBJ's camp........not "my source." Dude, will you please leave me alone? You obviously don't like me. I don't like you. Express your opinions on Baker and the Browns and allow me to express mine. Why do you feel the need to be the board police and get others to gang-up on those who don't agree w/you? No need to answer. It was a rhetorical question.

The truth for any who will listen was obvious last season, OBJ cost us the WR room. He's a punk. There is no need to rehash the obvious, unless you really got red faced over a certain QB taking off and doing good in 2020. Baker is a good QB when Baker is playing with help. Baker is not a QB who carries the team by himself, few are. But hey, we got us a slightly used sexual predator, and some prefer that.

Dooood.

You have mentioned me by name in dozens of posts. If I had the time I would copy and paste them here together with the posts with you spamming the board calling me "Evil" and other character attacks on me and others. Like always - you expect to be allowed to do that without others responding. That is not how it works.

As for OBJ - you wrote more than one post laying the ENTIRE blame and reason for OBJ not being in CLE on Baker. That is 100% false. I've been kind in most posts to call that rewriting history - but what it is/was is a lie. Plain and simple.

Cap...when I wrote that I had just read (within 24 hours) a grade on QBs by top football person not sure if it was Collinsworth but somebody and it was pretty real. They had seen enough of Darnold to count him out but evidently not enough of Baker - who had so many good spots and then so many bad and had Baker winning a playoff game and then last year with injury he played and didn't play well. So I understood the incomplete cause that is how I feel about him. I was looking forward to his play this year as a Brown and then the crapolla hit the fan. It is why many Browns fans have not bought into the change of QBs easily. Some feel Baker is a bust but that is a lot of sports journalist who don't report like they should they go with the flavor of the month. I have no problems with the change football wise - I don't like 3 years of no first round pics cause that has never worked out well for teams in the past and I think your first round picks with the contracts of today are the heart blood of the team. Its the only place you can get a Ward, Garrett, Newsome, Wills. But what I don't like about it is we are gambling cause its not a sure thing that Watson will be "ALLOWED" to play football. That scares me. The Browns liked Baker enough for them last year to give him a guaranteed 18+ mil contract this year. All of the really bad is with is season that he played with a torn Labrum in the shoulder which he probably should not have played. I however am not going to post every other post about Baker...this thread I'm giving my opinion mainly cause you asked. Incomplete cause of inconsistent results of his play. If Watson did not have the baggage regardless of how much I liked Baker I would be excited about the trade even though I cringe that for 3 years we won't have 1st round picks but I do know they were going to be late first rounder so not that bad. We would still win which is all I want for my Browns within limits. I wish to do it with some Character. jmho

Vers, I have a question for you at the end of my writing because you seem to have a decent knowledge of football and QBs, at least if you don't, you talk a good game. You are right a quite lot and do miss on your share but so do NFL GMs with decades of experience.

We are about the same age (I grad HS in the late 70s) game. I have been watching the Browns since 1969 but almost exclusively on TV and my HS did not even have FB when I attended. Only been to 1/2 dozen or so games in person.

I did not want to draft Baker because of his size and the OSU flag planting. I didn't really care that he ran from cops in his early twenties because I am guessing a lot of guys would at that age. Once we drafted him though I wanted him to succeed. I do think constant coaching/OC coordinator changes could have stalled his development.

Baker has had success. I was starting to think he might be a guy we could win consistently based on the last 1/2 of the 2020 season, after OBJ went down in the Bengal game. His stats the last 8 or 9 games were excellent (especially his low # of ints) and I think I read he had one of the best QBR of all NFL QBs from the pocket during that span. I really wish last year he had been healthy so his evaluation would be more complete.

Now to my question. How could he look so good for that half of a season and not have some tangible qualities as an NFL QB? I am not trying for a gotcha with this question, but I expected more in 2021 and really don't know if his injury had anything to do with it. With my limited knowledge he appeared to me to hold the ball longer which accounted for some of his sacks. OIwondered if his confidence was down and some of his gunslinger/swagger was gone.

I am curious what you or I guess even anyone else thinks about what happened from the success the last half of 2020 and the inconsistency the past 4 years. This is a serious question with no agenda.

General comment


I never understood the Baker-to-Carolina narrative. While Baker is absolutely better than Darn old, he's coming off injury and poor performance, and overall hasn't totally proven himself as a legit fQB. He'll cost a ton, and presents too risky as an acquisition for a team that already has too much money tied up in lame duck QBs

You mean like claiming that some people want watson to be guilty? Which would mean they hope those women were sexually abused? Those kind of dirty tactics?

And yes Baker was rated just above Darnold. A healthy Darnold verses Baker playing with a torn labrum for 14 games. At least put things in context if you're going to accuse others of dirty tactics.

tab - I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Thanks!

Like others, I wish you nothing but the best with your health. Keep fighting!

Fair questions. I do think the injuries affected his play at times. Mostly in regards to him really having to torque his lower body more than he had in the past. There are a couple of things you might want to consider. Almost every player deals w/injuries. Guys like Wentz, Darnold, Jimmy G, Rodgers, Big Ben, Burrow, Jackson, etc, etc etc dealt w/injuries. The other thing is that Baker was medically cleared to play by professional medical people. Some like to blame Stefanski, but the medical staff is in charge of those decisions. Injuries were a factor, but I think they are being overblown. If you are medically cleared to play, the thinking is you are in good enough shape to perform adequately.

Second point. Baker mentioned that his confidence was shaken or something like that in his podcast. So, you are right about that.

Next point. Baker has always held the ball longer than others. I like using advanced stats to help make my determinations. He got away w/a lot because we have had a good to great OL. A high number of sacks are directly attributed to him and it's been that way from the get go.

You raised another point about how Baker played so well for part of the previous year. I thought he had the best offensive talent around him in the league that year and Stefanski did a great job w/his schemes. It's not hard to succeed when you have all day to throw, you are being put in really good spots by great scheming, you have an awesome running attack that forces d-coordinators to load the box and have open receivers. I still saw very concerning flaws in Baker's game that year. In fact, Diam and I still talk on the phone and text one another. I told him BEFORE the start of this past season that "don't be surprised if the FO doesn't bring Baker back after this year." Not getting that extension was eye-opening and I figured coordinators would come up w/new strategies to combat Baker and our O. Think back......Baker had a pretty good rookie year. Teams attacked him a new way in bringing internal pressure and then flooding the offensive right side of the field w/their coverages. What did we see Baker do a lot of in year 2. Leave the pocket too early and roll to his right where he threw into the teeth of the coverage. Year 3, Stefanski comes in an utilizes a lot of play action and more importantly, boots Baker out of the pocket. What happens in year 4? Teams contain the edges and force Baker to beat them from the pocket. Baker was terrible in throwing from the pocket. His height is a detriment in that regard. He is also slow at processing information and he made more off target throws than all but two NFL starting QBs, and both of those guys were rookies.

Not asking you to agree w/my opinions and takes. You asked politely and I answered in the same manner. I appreciate these types of conversations/debates. May I ask you a question? We have both witnessed how many assets teams give up for good to great qbs. We have seen the reports on how the QB salaries are off the charts. We have seen teams bid for Watson's services even w/all the off field baggage. Why do you think teams aren't trading for Baker considering his pay is relatively low compared to many other QBs? Think about this.........Baker said he wanted to go to Indy. Indy went after an old Matt Ryan instead. Atlanta signed Marcus Mariotta for crying out loud. The Saints decided to stick w/Winston. Baker is still available. Do you think that other teams realize that he has major flaws in his game and that the reports being leaked of how he was viewed in the locker room hasn't played a significant role in that? Like yourself, my questions are legit and are not intended to be snarky. I really respect the way you have debated w/me.

Fair questions. I do think the injuries affected his play at times. Mostly in regards to him really having to torque his lower body more than he had in the past. There are a couple of things you might want to consider. Almost every player deals w/injuries. Guys like Wentz, Darnold, Jimmy G, Rodgers, Big Ben, Burrow, Jackson, etc, etc etc dealt w/injuries. The other thing is that Baker was medically cleared to play by professional medical people. Some like to blame Stefanski, but the medical staff is in charge of those decisions. Injuries were a factor, but I think they are being overblown. If you are medically cleared to play, the thinking is you are in good enough shape to perform adequately.

Second point. Baker mentioned that his confidence was shaken or something like that in his podcast. So, you are right about that.

Next point. Baker has always held the ball longer than others. I like using advanced stats to help make my determinations. He got away w/a lot because we have had a good to great OL. A high number of sacks are directly attributed to him and it's been that way from the get go.

You raised another point about how Baker played so well for part of the previous year. I thought he had the best offensive talent around him in the league that year and Stefanski did a great job w/his schemes. It's not hard to succeed when you have all day to throw, you are being put in really good spots by great scheming, you have an awesome running attack that forces d-coordinators to load the box and have open receivers. I still saw very concerning flaws in Baker's game that year. In fact, Diam and I still talk on the phone and text one another. I told him BEFORE the start of this past season that "don't be surprised if the FO doesn't bring Baker back after this year." Not getting that extension was eye-opening and I figured coordinators would come up w/new strategies to combat Baker and our O. Think back......Baker had a pretty good rookie year. Teams attacked him a new way in bringing internal pressure and then flooding the offensive right side of the field w/their coverages. What did we see Baker do a lot of in year 2. Leave the pocket too early and roll to his right where he threw into the teeth of the coverage. Year 3, Stefanski comes in an utilizes a lot of play action and more importantly, boots Baker out of the pocket. What happens in year 4? Teams contain the edges and force Baker to beat them from the pocket. Baker was terrible in throwing from the pocket. His height is a detriment in that regard. He is also slow at processing information and he made more off target throws than all but two NFL starting QBs, and both of those guys were rookies.

Not asking you to agree w/my opinions and takes. You asked politely and I answered in the same manner. I appreciate these types of conversations/debates. May I ask you a question? We have both witnessed how many assets teams give up for good to great qbs. We have seen the reports on how the QB salaries are off the charts. We have seen teams bid for Watson's services even w/all the off field baggage. Why do you think teams aren't trading for Baker considering his pay is relatively low compared to many other QBs? Think about this.........Baker said he wanted to go to Indy. Indy went after an old Matt Ryan instead. Atlanta signed Marcus Mariotta for crying out loud. The Saints decided to stick w/Winston. Baker is still available. Do you think that other teams realize that he has major flaws in his game and that the reports being leaked of how he was viewed in the locker room hasn't played a significant role in that? Like yourself, my questions are legit and are not intended to be snarky. I really respect the way you have debated w/me.[/quote]


Actually, I agree with most of what you say and certainly didn't mean my question to sound even the least bit confrontational. You gave me exactly what I was looking for. IT confirmed some of my thoughts and a different perspective on others.

To answer your question, I know what teams have given for QBs in the draft so our 3 1st rounders and then some is not a crazy price. I also agree it speaks volumes that the "interested" teams are few and far between. The idea of Watson with our line and RBs excites me about the upcoming season.

The off-field accusations will hopefully sort themselves out eventually, then I can decide how I feel about that.

One possible theory I have about Baker still being here is one, maybe 2 teams are interested, but are hoping with that limited market, they can get him for a steal and the Browns also pay some of 2022 salary. I am really not a QB evaluator. One of my worst ever predictions in my life (second only to "why would anyone want a computer in their house, stated 45 years ago) was that Peyton Manning would not be a good NFL QB, I saw his happy feet and assumed it was a nervous issue. Turns out he had them his whole career.

Good discussion.

LOL on the computer thing.

The Payton Manning thing is understandable. It's incredibly hard to evaluate college qbs and how well they will do in the NFL. The greatest talent evaluators strike out all the time. Trubisky ahead of Mahomes and Watson; Tua ahead of Herbert, Rosen in front of Lamar, Baker and Darnold ahead of Allen. Evaluating QBs is much easier after you have seen them in the NFL for a couple of years.

I do want to add one thing in defense of Baker in regards to the question I asked you. While I don't think the money he is guaranteed next season is all that high, teams do have to consider that he will be up for a new contract the following season. That's not helping the case for a guy you may have questions about. One other thing......he really should just be quiet. The podcast was a terrible idea. The part about his teammates and not wanting to win is horrible and the excuses about all his coaches and then wanting to boo fans in their cubicles kinda confirms that isn't an "adult" at this point in time.

That says a lot right there.

If you think of it, tell him Cap says "hey" and hopes he's doing OK.

I will. He's doing well overall. However, his mother passed.

Very sorry to hear that.

So what are the odds we trade Baker next weekend??

I hope we can accomplish that, but I kinda doubt it. I think teams are going to see how the draft plays out. For the record, I don't like any of the qbs in the draft, but I suck at evaluating college qbs just like everyone else does.

I believe that Baker has talked--and acted--himself out of a starting job. He's not good enough to commit to as a starter and who wants to bring him in to compete when they almost know that he will be a problem in the qb room and at least a distraction in the locker room

This sucks, but we may have to wait until the season starts and a starter goes down. I could be wrong and I hope I am wrong, but I think the NFL values Baker far below than what this board and many Brown's fans do.

Such a Browns' thing to do… bring in a criminal to replace a guy they are making statues of the last place he played. Smh.

I have these same exact thoughts... hoping we can trade him next week.... but think we may have to wait until pre-season or regular season when someone gets hurt...

They give everyone who wins a Heisman a statue.

Last I check there were no criminal charges brought again Watson... and there are several QBs that got a statue in college that did not pan out in the NFL...

Oddly enough and ironically , the last place he played made a statue of him trying to elude the cops
Oddly enough, the last place he played made a statue of him trying to elude the cops. What a weird thing for the university to honor.

Looks like the bad guy in Terminator 2.

True, I should have said guy with 22 active lawsuits for sexual misconduct, or whatever the specific charges are… better? I think it sounds worse, but you are 100% correct on him not being charged.

And for the record, I'm not bitter we replaced Baker, I just hate the way the Browns did this and did Baker. But I am shocked with the circumstances and salary of the new guy. Watson comes out of this at least looking like he did nothing wrong, I'm fine with him. Anything else is a decision for that time.

But did we do anything wrong?

The things I have read was we told Bakers agent that we were behind Baker and would only explore options if a premium QB became available.

One did, and we did. And when you get down to it, we didn't make the offer that landed Watson until after Baker drew his line in the sand. The Browns did exactly what they said they might do.

I get why Baker didn't like that, but we didn't do him dirty.

I don't really get these statements from Baker and his fan base about how the Browns did him dirty. His contract is fully guaranteed. What about guys like Landry? We cut him because we don't want to pay him what we promised him. That sounds more "dirty" than Baker's situation. Furthermore, all kinds of guys are done dirty and no one cares. Greats like Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Ronnie Lott, Tim Brown, Peyton Manning, etc were discarded like pieces of trash. Only Baker and his fans whine about it even though he is getting his money. And it's ironic that Baker is whining about how he was disrespected when he has made terrible comments about others in the past. My sig is what he said about Duke Johnson and then he acted like Hue was a traitor for taking a job w/the Bengals after the latter was fired. Flash forward a few later and Baker is asking to be traded and talking about how unfair things are. Pffftttttt......what a hypocrite.

Andrew Berry: I think we can all understand how Baker Mayfield feels

Posted by Myles Simmons on April 22, 2022, 1:24 PM EDT
PFT

“I think I’ve touched on this previously, that we were transparent with our intentions with [Mayfield’s] reps,” Berry said. “Now, that being said, I think we can all understand how Baker feels. And sometimes things in the NFL — whether it’s team-related, coach-related, player-related — they may not work out. And Baker’s a competitive and driven young man who’s had success as a quarterback and will continue to have success as a quarterback. So, definitely understand it.

LMAO...100%

I didn't know Robert Patrick played at Oklahoma!

It's a business. Baker is getting $18m guaranteed. He'll get other opportunities. I think in the grand scheme of things Baker has hurt the Baker brand more than anyone in the Browns FO. So, while I still have reservations over the DW legal issues, while the fan part of me still remembers hoping Baker was going to be the guy ... I don't feel sorry for Baker in any respect.

Context matters...

Here's what the supreme leader...Mr Jarvis Landry himself...had to say about the issue...way back then...https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2846419-browns-jarvis-landry-duke-johnsons-trade-request-wont-be-distraction-at-camp

Whaddayaknow...an actual NFL football player...on the same team as the disgruntled player...states that the issue is (was) not a big deal. His actual words...not inferences twisted like statistics.

Hue Jackson was a traitor...a back-stabber...and an embarrassment as an NFL head coach. That pariah managed (1) win in two years...actual went 1-32-1 before being forced to play Baker...who then WON his first game. He even attempted to hire Art Briles (https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...ks-outrage-stemming-from-baylor-scandal/) as an OC. The guy hasn't mad e a sound football decision in...who-knows-when?

Baker Mayfield had/has issues at playing QB. But it's hard work to have (re-hash) those details because...well...context matters.

If somebody hurt my feelings and said, "here's 18mil to ease the pain", I'd be good with it.

I didn't read the article you posted about what Jarvis said, but after three years Duke Johnson chose to go on social media and call out his former quarterback for what he said three years ago. If it wasn't a big deal to Duke Johnson or if he didn't harbor some ill will, I doubt he does that. So it was a big deal to someone.

For me, I don't care about that specific example. My suspicion is Baker is a good leader when things are going well and a poor leader when things are not. He's demonstrated a lot of immaturity and lack of awareness over the last year. I'm sure not getting the contract last year, then getting hurt, and playing poorly weighed on him heavily and that drove a lot of his demeanor. But my opinion is a more mature person and a better leader could have handled that better.

I don't want to know who you are when things are roses and butterflies. I want to know who you are when the bullets are flying.

I ran this exact scenario by my bosses last week. I was not offered 18m.

I agree with both you and OCD. My only slight disagreement was in 'Baker harming Baker'. He's home re-habbing from surgery...all off-season up to that point he was told he's the starter...he gets word that the Browns are looking at an upgrade...writes a 'thank you' letter to the fans...then is told he's still the guy after DW says "nope"...and 24-48 hours later the FO signs DW. Who wouldn't get salty about that string of events?

He's not the QB of my team anymore...but these debates are going to have a long life just like the Couch debates did for so long.

I doubt the debates will have much of a shelf life if Watson plays well and the Browns are in the playoffs yearly.

Also, I think Baker should spend less time being salty at the Browns and more time reflecting on why the Browns went after Watson to begin with.

I don't have an issue with anything you said there ^. Baker may be exactly the type of leader you mentioned. Who really knows? I'll add that in looking back on the Duke thing, two very interesting things become evident. #1 Duke was interviewed on the practice field after the first day of mandatory mini-camp...perhaps that wasn't the best time to air (or re-air) his complaint. #2 while listening to his interview it wouldn't take much to envision Baker saying the exact same things.

Agreed. My friend said just yesterday afternoon that if we start out 2-4 (or worse)...this is going to end poorly. If we start out 5-1 (or better) all will be well.

I think Baker has plenty of time to be salty AND to reflect. If he were my son, I would hate how the team handled this situation...and would advise him to say little-to-nothing in the media...as difficult as that may be.

If he were my son, I'd tell him to work harder and play better. I think one of Baker's biggest issues is he is surrounded by a bunch of enablers and people who feel sorry for him. Yes, this is speculation on my part, but I think his lack of awareness and maturity is being exacerbated and fed by his inner circle.

I doubt the debates will have much merit or show a shelf life when/if Watson plays lousy, (or is constantly injured) and the Browns miss the playoffs yearly, (the next 4 years.)
Also I think the Browns should spend less time excusing themselves for betraying their player and more time reflecting on why they couldn't win with Baker in the first place, (orr, accept that they were winning, and build on the wins toward more wins with Baker.)

The Bottom line is, Baker is/was the starter, and Watson, shouldn't be given it, unless he earns it, and earns it in Berea/Cleveland!

That is one of the things the Browns have nearly not done at all since the return in 1999, and that is make players earn a playing spot by beating the current player, and do so in Berea/Cleveland. That is, training camp, or during the season.

100% speculation

That's fair. I was thinking specifically about the podcast where he talked about being disrespected and joining a team where players were happy making a check and he didn't know how to motivate that type of Ayer. To be honest I've not listened to the podcast and I probably bought into some of the noise on here. Still wish he'd just shut up and put his head down. But those two comments were the worst of the podcast or else there'd be more noise about it... And they really didn't amount to much.

Bro. You've got to sprint into the office, slide into a crouch, start taking pictures like he's a rock star. Bounce up and start shaking your head in a very pronounced fashion, offer up a high-five. They'll be much more receptive.

maybe 18 minutes to gather your things.

Report: 1 NFL Team “Very Much In The Mix” For Baker Mayfield Trade
Andrew McCarty - 5h ago

Over the past few weeks, the trade market around Cleveland Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield has been eerily silent.

Earlier this offseason, the Browns traded for star quarterback Deshaun Watson. That spelled the end of Mayfield’s career with the team, just a few years after being the No. 1 overall pick.

The problem for the Browns is that Mayfield’s trade market evaporated as soon as the team traded for Watson. Opposing teams know Cleveland needs to trade Mayfield and aren’t lining up to give the Browns what they want.

However, Mayfield’s market might be heating up as the NFL Draft nears. According to a report from Matt Lombardo of FanSided, the Seattle Seahawks are interested.

From FanSided:

“The Seahawks are very much in the mix for Baker [Mayfield],” an NFL personnel executive tells FanSided, on the condition of anonymity to speak freely about another team.

According to the executive, there have been backchannel communications between several teams and the Browns regarding Mayfield as the NFL Draft approaches.

Seattle made one of the biggest trades of the offseason, sending star quarterback Russell Wilson to the Denver Broncos. The Seahawks landed former second-round pick Drew Lock in the trade, but it’s unclear if they view him as a starting quarterback.

With Lock and veteran Geno Smith on the roster, the Seahawks could choose to trade for Mayfield to get a bonafide starter.

let's hope so this saga can end.

Browns reportedly 'highly motivated' to trade Baker Mayfield 'before or around draft time'
Zac Wassink, Yardbarker - Yesterday 6:13 PM

The Cleveland Browns continue to have a problem worth $18.858 million of fully guaranteed salary for the 2022 NFL season attached to their roster following their acquisition of star quarterback Deshaun Watson last month. 2018 first overall draft pick Baker Mayfield is still on the depth chart, and there is currently zero indication any team will offer Cleveland anything of note for the 27-year-old before the draft gets underway this coming Thursday night.

According to Erin Walsh of Bleacher Report, ESPN's Jeremy Fowler explained during a Friday appearance on "SportsCenter" the Browns want to jettison Mayfield sooner rather than later.

"The Browns are highly motivated to get this done, preferably before or around draft time," Fowler said. "They've got six days to create that urgency; they want that $19 million guaranteed money off their salary-cap books. The best way to do that is to trade him. If they cut him, they still have to eat a lot or all of that money. Teams know that, so they're sort of waiting in the weeds here. There just really hasn't been a strong market."

Perhaps the biggest problem for Cleveland less than a full week before the draft opens is that teams previously linked with Mayfield — the Seattle Seahawks, Carolina Panthers, Pittsburgh Steelers and even the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, among others — know he's surplus to requirements in Northeast Ohio and, thus, don't have to be in any rush to land his services. Every day Mayfield is with the Browns makes it more likely he'll be cut, especially since they have veteran journeyman Jacoby Brissett ready to start if Watson is suspended regarding the many allegations of sexual misconduct that have hovered over his status since last year.

The truth remains Cleveland may have to package Mayfield with a draft pick to get him off the books this spring or summer.

That was cool.

Did all those people come out just for that? If so, that's impressive.

The Baker bashing continues yet the Browns are still sitting on Mayfield's future. Watson is the new Browns QB, the way they've handled Mayfield is amateur.

Pursuing and signing Watson without a plan in place for what to do with Mayfield was amateur.

Mayfield is currently entering the final year of his contract which is guaranteed and the rest of the league knows he won’t be re-signed before a trade. That leaves the Browns, who are overvaluing him anyway, in a precarious position.

Compounding matters, Mayfield is recovering from offseason shoulder surgery and may not be ready until training camp. That’s certainly something that is giving teams some pause.

Ultimately, the Browns could cut Mayfield outright and take the financial hit, but they’re determined to get something of value in return. We’ll see how that plays out, but Berry may want to stop holding his breath.

"Perhaps the biggest problem for Cleveland less than a full week before the draft opens is that teams previously linked with Mayfield — the Seattle Seahawks, Carolina Panthers, Pittsburgh Steelers and even the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, among others — know he's surplus to requirements in Northeast Ohio and, thus, don't have to be in any rush to land his services. Every day Mayfield is with the Browns makes it more likely he'll be cut, especially since they have veteran journeyman Jacoby Brissett ready to start if Watson is suspended regarding the many allegations of sexual misconduct that have hovered over his status since last year."

How long the Browns sit on Mayfield's future is anyone's guess but it's certainly not a good look.

It was their spring game but they were there for Baker.

The FO had a plan in place. Improve the QB position at all costs.

We fans have stated for years you can't win without a franchise QB. We said you can't win consistently without a top 10 QB.

In this FO's eyes, they believe they have upgraded the talent at the QB position.

We can debate until the cows come home whether Baker is more or less talented than Watson. We can equally debate the moral aspects regarding the player.

The bottom line, this FO believes they upgraded the key position of this football team. They staked their careers on this decision.

He seems strangely at peace with his current situation.

Something tells me he'd be ok if he never played football again. I don't think the NFL was what he thought it was going to be.

Worst case scenario is he makes millions in college broadcasting.

I wish Baker was that tall !!

Baker bashing? The Browns don't want him and neither does the rest of the NFL apparently. Yet, excuse makers like you continue to play "Once Upon a Time..." Are you going to follow him to his new team? I wonder if the Ottawa Rough Riders need a qb and have a message board? Just kidding, but damn, the evidence is in and a few of you are still reinventing the reality of the situation. He is not a good qb and is an emotional midget. I doubt many teams want that combo.

And is hired by every business in Oklahoma to endorse everything (the Vince Young path).

Probably true, but I think he would be awesome on a show called The Bake Show. It would be a spin-off of the old Jerry Springer show and drama rules the day.

I wonder about the Seattle rumors. A few ramblings.

--DK Metcalf openly went crazy on Russel Wilson this year when the latter missed some throws. It will be hilarious to see him go off on Baker.

--Maybe they can avoid that situation by trading Metcalf for Baker? Sure.

--While I would take a ham sandwich for Baker if they pay his salary, I would feel bad for Seahawk fans and their board members if they indeed to have one. Can you imagine the Baker fans there? DK Metcaff and Locket suck! Worst OL in the history of the world. Pete Carrol has a terrible scheme. The Seattle fans are really aggressive and mean. Baker is really good, but the D stinks. You people are just haters. Russel Wilson is nowhere near the qb Baker is.

That was pretty special.

Just when you think the unbridled, 100% speculation on the guy has reached the absurd...it goes and gets even more absurd.

I wasn't basing it just on that but on things that he said during his podcast as well. I've been thinking what I stated since then. Additionally, he's done nothing to repair his image in the face of zero interest in him as a football player. Nothing. It's almost like he doesn't care.

But at any rate, now you know how I felt when you came up with the "drives before the drives" argument. Most of your arguments in favor of Baker could be filed under the absurd category but the "drives before the drives" was the crown jewel. Top 5 take ever in a comedic sort of way.

And don't ever forget this...The Rish is always right...The Rish is always right...The Rish is always right.

So in a thread talking about DPJ - we had a poster go off on his high horse which included broad character attacks on others because posters had the temerity to start talking about DPJ's potential because he suffered a season with his own injuries and he had a QB who was injured and playing badly. Apparently this wasn't accepting able in "Pure Football".

But as long as we are deriding Baker - it seems it's okay to feel sorry for other teams if they traded for Bake - speculate on nonsense they might say in defense of Baker (presumably because that was one of the agendas here anytime there was a discussion about Baker and his performances) ... and it's okay to speculate on Baker's state of mind and the idea that he want's out of the NFL (or is comfortable with it).

Rish - you know I saw your comment last night and I didn't think too much of it. You've had a hard if consistent approach to Baker throughout his tenure here. My single biggest gripe would be that you were always very active after bad games and gave very scant comment after good games. And I don't have any issue with your opinion about him being at peace and happy to move on ... but it comes at a time we just had this other sermon about posters not sticking to football, so I've included it with the other comment. The reason I disagree with you about the place Baker is in - and I am happy for him if he has found a little zen amidst this off season - he was hurt all last year (bar 1 game) and he gritted it out. The injury clearly hurt less as we got to the final 1/4 of the season, but he was in real and severe pain in a few games. During that time he showed absolutely zero interest in taking an easy option and sitting, he showed no less passion, his commitment to the team and game was 100%. While he's in a state of flux with the Browns, hopefully he's realized all he can do is focus on himself, his recovery and his attitude ... no idea how much of that he has done, but based on what we saw on the football field there's no quit in him from what I can see.

As for the rest - it really does seem that the idea of a stadium full of fans cheering on Baker agitated someone enough to make them repeat the negative commentary again. Personally I think it's too soon to laugh and and belittle Baker because he and his $18M contract have not been traded yet. There's a couple articles posted here explaining why - and how teams know the Browns are in a no-win, weak situation with Baker. Maybe despite that - Baker won't find a home next year. Maybe he won't be a starter. But we won't know till after the draft. After Baker is not a Brown. Being too gleeful, too soon says more about the poster than anything else.

Proposed Trade Sends Browns QB Baker Mayfield to Backup Role
By J.R. De Groote
Updated Apr 22, 2022 at 7:45am

Baker Mayfield’s future is uncertain following his falling out with the Cleveland Browns but former NFL general manager Mike Tannenbaum believes the former top pick could find a home in Tampa Bay, initially as a backup to Tom Brady.

Tannenbaum suggested some draft day trades he’d like to see and one prominent idea feature the Bucs dealing a fourth-round pick to land Mayfield. As he notes, the deal would have to take the Browns eating a chunk of Mayfield’s near $19 million salary. Here’s what Tannenbaum had to say about a potential deal, via the 33rd Team:

This move feels necessary for both sides. … Let Baker sit for a year and learn as much wisdom from Tom Brady and Byron Leftwich as possible. Let him use this season as an investment in his future and take in all the gifts that Tom has to give in terms of professionalism and preparation. This would be very similar to what Mitch Trubisky did this past season with Buffalo.

The Bucs would have to feel pretty confident in their assessment of Mayfield to make a deal for him to basically be a high-priced insurance policy for the soon-to-be 45-year-old Brady. However, there’s always the thought that the team could convince Mayfield to re-sign after a year in their system and be the quarterback of the future if Brady decides to make his retirement official once an for all after next season.

The Buccaneers currently have three other quarterbacks on the roster behind Brady in Blaine Gabbert Kyle Trask Ryan Griffin.

Browns Call Baker Mayfield’s Situation ‘Fluid’

Mayfield is coming off a down year but has shown at times that he can be a more than viable option as a starting quarterback on a playoff-caliber squad. He led the Browns to the playoffs during the 2020-21 season, notching a win against the Steelers in the Wild Card round.

Last season he passed for 17 touchdowns and 13 interceptions, slumping down the stretch, tossing seven of those interceptions in the final three games with the Browns hunting a playoff spot. He had surgery to repair a torn labrum in his non-throwing shoulder in January. He played through the injury after suffering it in Week 2 against the Texans while trying to make a tackle following an interception.

To no one’s surprise, Mayfield was a no-show for the Browns voluntary OTAs this week but he was still an obvious topic of conversation.

“That is a unique situation. It is fluid,” Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski told reporters on Wednesday, April 20. “We will just continue to work through it as we go each day.

Robert Griffin III Says Browns Bungled Mayfield Situation
The problem for the Browns in finding Mayfield a new team is that they have little to no leverage in the situation. The relationship with Mayfield is beyond repair, he’s due a large chunk of cash on his fifth-year option and they’ve already signed capable backups in Jacoby Brissett and Joshua Dobbs.

Former Browns quarterback and Heisman winner Robert Griffin the III sounded off on Thursday’s edition of “Get Up!” on ESPN about how Cleveland has handled the situation.

“I’m flabbergasted at how the Browns could mismanage this so poorly,” Griffin said, per Cleveland.com. “They should have traded Baker Mayfield before the ink dried on Deshaun Watson…They trashed Baker in the media. Now they’re stuck with a quarterback they don’t want and an $18 million price tag. Teams know they have no leverage.”

“I’m flabbergasted at how the Browns could mismanage this so poorly,” Griffin said, per Cleveland.com. “They should have traded Baker Mayfield before the ink dried on Deshaun Watson…They trashed Baker in the media. Now they’re stuck with a quarterback they don’t want and an $18 million price tag. Teams know they have no leverage.”

- You know the Baker detractors are happy to use players silence over Baker as proof positive none of them support him. But actually hear the words of a former Browns QB and I would not be surprised to see that opinion dismissed or simply ignored.

- I don't see the attraction for Baker being a backup for a year behind Tom Brady. At the end of the year, Brady is free to sign anywhere, so Tampa could end up grooming and improving Baker but never see the return themselves. I would have thought Tampa more likely if Baker had at least 2 years remaining.

So what are you saying...the Rish is not always right?

The comment about Burrow is the funniest. He only had 12 ,games to his credit
And he called him average. I guess leading the league in completion %
Deep ball TDs , and taking a team to a SB is average.
So what does that make Baker then since was,never able to do what Burrow
Has done in 1.5 years

Proof of the post you quoted.

More Baker bashing. You are a self fulfilling prophesy for those accusing others of Baker bashing.

j/c,

Baker bashing? Okay. I can't wait until the cancer is down the road, and gone, gone, gone.

As we're seeing now, one form of cancer isn't really that much better than another form of cancer.

Yes, Baker leaves the same bad taste in my mouth as does Johnny Manziel....ect and the rest of the pretenders.

You obviously either ignore what's going on or pretend it isn't happening. Things will be ugly for quite some time. Sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la, la, la" won't change that.

I get people not having faith in Baker. I get some don't like him because he was brash. I get some would never forgive the flag plant. No issue with any of that really.

But to put him in the same bracket as JM ? That doesn't seem very fair.

JM
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManzJo00.htm
Career - 14 games. 2-6 record. 57% completion. 7TD 7INT


BM
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MayfBa00.htm
Career - 60 games. 29-30 record. 61.6% completion. 92TD 56 INT

It doesn't change where we are. But I think there is a galaxy of difference between the two.

At this point it has nothing to do with being fair. I'm pretty sure you've figured that part out by now.

Window dressing ... the context is that they where both pretenders.

You got a link for that thread?

It's going to be nice to not have to read the same manufactured stuff all the time like how our scheme sucks, the FO really blew it, the OL sucks, worst WRs in the league, the D sucks. What's crazy, they call anyone who evaluates Baker appropriately "a hater," yet their continued bashing of the coaching and Baker's supporting cast is not "hating." Almost every single person who talks about football said the same things about the Browns in that we had a great roster and a really smart coach who had a good scheme and was a good play caller. Their question has always been Baker. But, the Cleveland Baker fans can't acknowledge that and trashed the Browns over and over and over again.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Baker was hurt last year. DW had BETTER be a huge improvement.

Sorry, I'm not a Baker apologist. I'm a Browns fan. I've also been let down so, so MANY times.......after a draft, after a signing.

I'm done with "this is the piece" crap.

DW put's up, fantastic numbers and wins, IF he plays, or, he's a bust. I'll call it as I see it.

That's your right as a fan. No worries. On the other hand, I am sick of certain folks trashing so many parts of the Brown's organization on a daily basis and then turning around and calling anyone who criticizes Baker a "hater."

There are plenty of Baker fans that don't resort to that BS. Guys like Dave, Fate, bone, etc. Hell, I don't think I ever read you blame Baker's supporting cast and coaching staff, so my comments were not directed towards you. It's just unfair to hate on all the other Browns, including players, coaches, and the FO and then call others "haters" because they criticize Baker.

I guess it's hoping too much too see that since you came back and wanted to pile on Baker - it's been you that's mentioned these "excuses" over and over. I guess it's too much to see that you even made a post in pure football writing about what Seattle Fans will or won't say about Baker, and then you wrote how the Seattle fans would recreate the same "excuses" for Baker....

And no doubt because I've pointed this out - you'll rant I'm the bad guy with an agenda? As opposed to what I am doing which is pointing out your claptrap and hypocrisy. I can't wait for the next time you tell posters what they should have written about or what "pure football" is supposed to be about.... please - go ahead and defend this ::::>>>

j/c:

In a previous post, I mentioned how Baker was ranked 31st among NFL QBs in QBR during one-score games in the 4th quarter since 2018. I also brought up how Burns wrote an article after the GB game, which I think was week 12, on how Baker had the worst QBR of any qb in the 4th quarter during the current season. I have always felt that Baker's coaches did not trust him in crunch time. I remember plays like the OBJ reverse after Baker was crapping the bed late in the game against the Cowboys a couple of years ago, or handoffs on 3rd and even 4th and long, or other trick plays. I came across another article along similar lines. While the criteria may seem a bit odd in parts, the theme remains the same. Baker has not performed well in the clutch during his career. Here is the article:

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthre...-mayfield-part-iv-a-new-hope#Post1829424

That doozie was on page 8...

This is ridiculously stupid

Report: Browns to move Baker Mayfield soon, will have to take on part of contract
Brandon Little - Yesterday 9:01 PM

According to a report, the Cleveland Browns will be moving on from Baker Mayfield during the NFL Draft.

The NFL Draft kicks off Thursday and will last three days. During that period, there is a very good chance that Baker Mayfield could be traded, according to a report.

“The feeling around the league is that Baker Mayfield will be traded on the second or third day of the draft,” said Tony Pauline of Pro Football Network.

That isn’t the only interesting part of the report, there is a very good chance that the Browns will have to eat some of the money. Mayfield is playing on a fifth-year option, which is nearly $19 million. Cleveland will have to pay some of that money, essentially buying a draft pick from wherever Mayfield is traded.

“The Browns will have to pay a large portion of Mayfield’s contract in 2022 after they trade him.”

Cleveland very well could be paying Mayfield north of half of that contract to play elsewhere next season. The most realistic spots remain the Seattle Seahawks and Carolina Panthers — two teams that have been rumored since Cleveland acquired Deshaun Watson.

“If the Seahawks trade back into the bottom part of Round 1 for a signal-caller, as I mentioned Friday, they’ll be out of the Mayfield sweepstakes,” said Pauline.

Round two and three of the draft will be held this coming Friday. That is where it will be interesting to watch and see if the Browns will move Mayfield to another team that day.

Mayfield’s time in Northeast Ohio could be coming to an end very soon.

I'd be thinking on day 3...rounds 4-7. I am thinking. 5th rounder, us paying 8-10 mil of the contract. If Berry can work some magic, maybe another conditional next year if the team signs Baker to a new contract.

As a point of clarification:

So this was the comment that was a reply to Vers that made me believe that Vers had the unconfirmed source inside the locker room.... If it wasn't Vers that said it, I'm not sure how it could be a reply and a quote.

With that said - I don't know how quoting another Baker article is an answer to a question about writing a pure football post about Seahawk Fans and trying to put words in their mouths about Baker who isn't even on their team. I guess it's not and is simply a deflection.

That thread seems to be following the Pittsburgh playoff win. It's before the KC game where but for a missed targeting call the Browns would have won.

It's also TWO games before Baker would get his shoulder torn his 2021 season was wrecked. It's interesting how quickly we all forget how highly Baker was being thought of at the end of 2020 and before we saw him play so badly in 2021. Here's a handful of quotes that I found amusing given how many fans and most of the media did a 360 change after he got injured:





For clarity - I am not claiming Baker is as good as Watson. I am not saying he's going to be a top 5 QB in the NFL. What I am saying is I think everyone seems to have forgotten how high the ceiling appeared before he got injured. After this game - after the two KC games where Baker was more than adequate - Baker got hurt. And now we are where we are.

I am not saying he isn't good. I wanted to draft the guy. I think Baker will still be a good QB in the league.

My only problems with the guy are when he came out last season saying it was his body and only he will bench himself, then the way he has handled this whole off season.

There also seemed to be some discord between Baker and Stefanski. Only those involved would know what caused that, but it showed.

A lot of horrible takes going on in this thread.

I am with you with the exception of how/why/who decided Baker kept playing when hurt ... having a QB willing and able to play through that injury was perhaps admirable. But the decision on whether he plays or not is 100% on the HC. I've seen people speculate that it was Baker's decision or whatever - but if you are the HC, all decisions relating to who plays, when, how much etc ... all 100% on the HC.

I've said Baker just needs to say nothing on social media or anywhere - and just get his head down and focus on putting himself in the best situation to succeed he can. As someone else has pointed out - the only thing Baker has done this offseason is write a goodbye letter to Cleveland, and a 90 minute long podcast. We know that whatever he said was going to get scrutinized in the media and there are plenty who do not like Baker... the only negatives out of the 90 minutes was a statement where he said he felt disrespected and a comment about joining a team where veterans were getting paid and who were more interested in their pay than in winning and he didn't know how to motivate them. I don't know if that was Jamie Collins, one of the vet WR we signed who were bad? So yes - I don't think he should say anything, but really, what he's actually said really doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It's really the perception that he said something and that he's butt hurt and entitled than much else. Given the chip on his shoulder his entire collegiate and pro career it's understandable but his actual words and deeds this offseason don't reflect some of the criticism.

"and neither does the rest of the NFL apparently."

you know that statement just is not true.

j/c:

I am of the opinion that Baker's great year in 2020 was a lot more about his supporting cast and coaching than on how good Baker was. That is why I told Diam before the 2021 season began that he should not be surprised if the Browns moved on from Baker before the start of the 2023 season.

Here are a few advanced passing stats from pro-football-reference.

Baker had more time to throw than any qb in the league. Watson's time to throw was a tie for 10th w/6 other QBs. Considering Watson is way more mobile than Baker, this stat is somewhat surprising.

Hurries is another important advanced passing stat. Baker was "hurried" 49 times while Watson was hurried on 75 attempts, which was the second most in the league. Interestingly, Herbert faced the most hurries.

Accuracy is another important factor. Some folks have marveled over Baker's accuracy. I have seen him being very accurate at times, but he has always made a ton of inaccurate throws. Look at the following from the 2020 season........BEFORE he was hurt in 2021.

Overall accuracy. Baker ranked 18th. Watson was 1st.


Percentage of poor throws, excluding spikes and throw-aways. Baker was 6th worst. Watson was 24th worst.

Percentage of On Target throws, excluding spikes and throw-aways. Baker ranked 28th and Watson was ranked 5th best.

Here is a link for those of you who love to investigate things like advanced passing stats to paint a clearer picture of the game.


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/passing_advanced.htm

I was pretty high on Baker after 2020. I am prone to the same fanaticism as everyone else. Maybe it was wishful thinking, but I really did not believe that Baker's second half of that year was all Stefanski. I saw Baker consistently getting to his 2nd and 3rd reads and playing really well. I thought the proverbial light bulb had gone off. Other than the last two drives in KC, he had two really strong playoff games as well. I was for sure it was the 4 coaches and 4 OCs in three years that was the culprit and we finally had the real Baker Mayfield.

Maybe I was just drinking the kool-aid and high on that playoff season. I was clearly wrong. I knew after the failed drive in KC after week one that it was going revert back to the mean. Bad feeling in my gut.

And doozie? Answer me this...how does one decide to put the time and effort into researching people's old posts? Like that activity is so foreign to me it would never cross my mind to do that. Is this place that important to you that you would take that time and effort in an arrempt to embarrass someone? This place is so weird.

I marvel at the fact that the Baker supporters seem.to take it personal when
Others point out Mayfields obvious flaws.
The ones that support Baker have less actual facts to support their case
Than the ones who are providing facts on why Baker isnt qualified to be the 2022 starter
For the Browns.

Yeah, you are right in that it was at least not true in totality. I still think that he is one of the best 32 qbs in the league, so he should be wanted by some teams. I do think his immaturity, his excuse making, all his noise on social media, and questions about how he is viewed in the locker room has hurt his value. Teams might be concerned on how well he will fit in w/their organization.

With that said, I think Baker has some talent. I think he is going to have to humble himself and go all-in to improve his game and rep. I think he should simply dedicate himself to becoming the best player he can be and grow up. If he does those things, I think he can be a starting qb who can perform okay if he has a really good supporting cast. I don't think he will ever be elite because of pressure. Both types of pressure. His mechanics break down when he faces pressure in the pocket and dealing w/the pressure of excelling in crunch time. But yeah...........he can still be an adequate starter in the league. Of course, these are just my opinions and some might believe he can be elite. I am not going to argue w/those that feel that way. It's an opinion and we should all be able to express our opinions. That is......in my opinion.

Yes, It's almost like they are second guessing AB and our FO as if they are making a grave error, which couldn't be further from the truth!

IMO (and obviously, FWIW) the most egregious thing you stated in that old post was that Baker was significantly better than Watson, etc. EVERYONE was gushing over Baker second half of that season and on. Stuff was working even though the team had major holes. The team was working well in the areas that were 'worked on'. Baker was very up-and-down even that year. There were clear shortcomings to his game even when Browns got the W.

Maybe they were motivated by the claim you were making?

just clicking...

Some just can't get enough to quench their thirst for ...???...don't even know what to call it..!

It's like some can't escape whatever it is...it seems like some Browns fans are "possessed".

I know, right.

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1917983/analytics-had-enough-yet#Post1917983

Well, that last part is a little over the top, but obviously I struck a nerve when the only goal was a little jabbing in good humor. I really didn't think about the fact that others may latch on and push something to the point where it looks like I was trying to "embarrass" you. For that, I apologize. I'm not some stalker and I wasn't stalking your posts. Truth be told, I've been a little surprised by a lot of posters' 180 on Baker after a season where he was injured.

But you, my friend, have been spinning back and forth since he was drafted. And I didn't have to search for that, I've read it, over and over.

I had merely gone back to the latest "Baker" thread after the 2020 season... to look at all of our posts about "Baker the God" lol, including my own. I had done that previous to your "Rish is always right" post so I went back to look at some of yours.

I remembered being surprised, at the time, that "even 'Rish" was on the Baker train... particularly because you were so critical beforehand.

To be fair, it's a little unusual that you are complaining about comments with someone's "post history" when you were doing exactly the same with Willie in the post I responded to.

In one year, you've gone from "Baker, the greatest thing since sliced bread" to "He looks strangely at peace, maybe he just realizes the NFL was way too hard for him".


At the end of the day, the whole idea of me posting that seems a little rude, if not "stalkish", for that, again, I apologize.

I think the linked thread, if anyone wants to scroll through it, highlights exactly how people have flipped. And as I mentioned in my post - after the praise he received in that post, he played two games healthy vs KC and played well in both games and then was badly hurt in the next game and played very badly the rest of the year.

Hopefully there isn't anything I've written that is interpreted as trying to embarrass Rish.

Baker has been inconsistent since day1. The Baker Bros have always put more faith into what he's done well and his potential while his critics put more emphasis on his negative performances. There has always been legit evidence to make compelling arguments both ways, and the Browns have only recently (relatively) decided to stop hindering his progress with constant change.

For me, I do still think he'll be successful in the NFL (especially after this kick in the pants off-season can be learned from). I think his doing a 180 on his opinion of throwing coaches shows he's just as committed to improving as before, just maybe needed the push to figure it out. But at the end of the day, the Browns had an opportunity to land a much better talent at the most important position and took it. It's just the cold, hard reality of it. I'll still root for him, and I think he'll eventually do well when he lands somewhere, but I can still see that Watson is the superior QB.

I think nearly everyone agrees. including the 'Baker Bros' - and I don't blame the FO at all, and if Watson returns as good as when he left, can play in the cold, etc then the price we paid will be well worth it, possibly even 'cheap'. That's sticking with the on the field stuff. The off the field stuff is a 'TBD'.

And while Baker has without question been inconsistent - rubber stamping his career based on 2021 with a torn shoulder, broken humerus and other injuries seems a smidge harsh.

I just remember baker in a PC making it a point that he would be the one to decide. Nobody else.

That may have been the falling off point between the QB and coach.

Just because baker said it doesn’t mean Stefanski gets to bow out of making the final determination.

lamp, Stefanski doesn't make the final determination. The medical staff does. In today's litigious society, you can bet your last dollar that no organization is going to allow a coach to run out a player who isn't healthy enough to play. Stefanski is receiving far too much criticism on this board. Baker wanted to play. It was his chance to earn a big contract. I don't blame him one bit for trying to earn that contract and I admire his toughness for battling through the injuries. However, he would not have been permitted to play if he was not healthy enough to do so. I don't think anyone deserves blame in this situation.

As an aside, I was hoping that the Browns would stick w/Keenum after the Denver game. I felt as if we would have made the playoffs w/him at qb. But, in the long run, he stinks, too and we were not going anywhere w/either qb.

Back in my day, which was more recent than your day lol, the coach made the call in such situations. I’m not really blaming Ski, really, just saying. And while I backed Baker cuz he was our QB, I now like the decision to move on with DW. He’s a better QB.

"Healthy enough to play" as deemed by the medical staff means his risk to injury has been minimized. They don't judge how well he's able to play. You're right about Baker wanting to be on the field and his toughness, but he was obviously struggling and cost us games. Everybody saw it. I blame Stefanski for not having the stones to yank him early on. If that had happened, we'd be going into 2023 with optimism and a healthy BM at qb, in playing time he would have been not far removed from the second round of the playoffs. We most likely would not have traded for DW and had the draft picks we gave up. Baker's not DW, but we've shown we can win with him and we wouldn't have the off season shirtshow we have going on now.

If Stefanski doesn't make the final determination on whether a player plays or not - then who the hell is the Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns. Stefanski failed miserably last season when he continued to trot Mayfield out there week after week when any dummy could see that his injury was having a major effect on his level of competence. To say that Mayfield had medical clearance is just an excuse for Stefanski's incompetence. Good Head Coaches bench players all the time especially in cases of subpar performance. Yet in Cleveland, the coach gets a bye if the player is medically cleared regardless of the ability to play at a normal level. It's comments just like this that clearly show how the Browns have screwed Baker Mayfield. Starting offensive tackles and top backup out injured - shouldn't affect Mayfield's play. #1 WR missing 14 of 27 games - shouldn't affect Mayfield's play. #2 WR admitting he played at less than 80% most of the season and now being supported to be resigned because last year's numbers were off because he played injured - shouldn't have affected Mayfield's play. Playing without your #1 and #2 RB's - shouldn't have affected Mayfield's play.

Finally, after 14 games, offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt acknowledged that Mayfield's passing mechanics have been "handcuffed" by the harness.

Mayfield completed 82% of his passes in his first two games, which was the best rate in the NFL; from the injury on, his completion rate has plummeted to 59.5%, fourth-worst in the league. "It's definitely something that's hindered him," Van Pelt said. "You can just see in his mechanics down that left side [of his body] get stuck in there at times, and it's a struggle for him. ... Hopefully next year without the harness, you'll see Baker back to normal with his normal throwing mechanics. He has fought through [it]. We have a lot of respect for the fact that he has battled through that, and we know he's injured. That's where I'll leave that."

2021 results, Mayfield's problem because he was medically cleared. Not Stefanski's responsibility for the ultimate results.

Mayfield will be gone now and the Browns have by all accounts upgraded the position. They didn't upgrade the head coaching position though.

jfan...not a lot we agree on lately, but I do agree with you on the comment above and the post in general. Any HC worth his salt would have to the team goals ahead of the goals of an individual player..especially a player who felt he had to play to show he could play through the pain of an injury.

The player doesn't get the last word on whether he is playing or not..it is supposed to be a HC decision based on input from all sources such a medical staff, GM and on up the chain of command, to ownership...the buck stops with ownership who have the ultimate power within the franchise.

How freaking stupid of this franchise to play an injured QB over the Headcoach's hand picked backup that HC brought to Cleveland for this specific reason...to step in and run the HCs offensive scheme should the starter be injured.

The buck stops at the top in Cleveland...

We are all entitled to our opinions, but I think the Browns would have given Baker his extension last year if they really believed in him. I think that teams not trading for Baker speaks volumes and find it hard to believe other people can't recognize that fact. His guaranteed money isn't high. Teams are giving up the farm for guys like Stafford, Wilson, and Watson. Hell, teams have been willing to trade significant value for a guy like Wentz. I think that the Browns were loaded w/talent in 2020 and supremely well coached and we still couldn't get it done. I think the Browns were moving on from Baker no matter what.

Completion % is often used when people come to defend Baker
In regards to his 1st 2 games. Yes he had a NFL completion %
Through 2 games but what is omitted is that Baker had
A poor TD to INT ratio through 2 games....1 to 2.
And it's not like he went up against top 5 defenses either.
The Texans and Chiefs.
Stefanski passing is geared to have a high% completion rate.
I think Baker's failure to beat the Chiefs helped lead to
The FO moving on from him

My understanding is that KS has 'final' say, but Medical can pull a veto/trump card at any time. Regardless, the final decision isn't made in a vacuum, so I don't know if there's much of a point in pointing fingers at any 1 person.

I think that there is healthy enough to play, which is determined buy the medical staff
There is healthy enough to be willing to play, which is determined by the player
And then there is healthy enough to play well, which is determined by the Head Coach

The medical staff felt Baker could play without significantly increased risk of injury.
That played out to be true.

Baker felt healthy enough that he was willing and wanting to play.
This certainly demonstrated his toughness.

KS felt Baker was healthy enough to play well.
That was certainly not the case
KS was wrong and that is why he is getting criticism, which I think is appropriate.

The people not get enough criticism is the Front Office.
Baker was playing at 50, 60, or maybe 70%
If Case Keenum is not good enough to give him a couple games off to heal up some then why were we paying him $10 million last year?

Here is a Baker trade scenario I came up with and would be interested in opinions on it.

I am presuming the trade would happen after this year's
We trade Baker to The Carolina Panthers.

In return, we get a 4th in the 2023 draft with a conditional 2nd.
The condition being that if they resign him we get a 2nd rounder as well
We get Darnold and the Panthers pay $10 million of his salary.

I don't really want to talk about the draft pick compensation. I posted what I thought would be fair value. If others disagree I have no issue with that. I would like to discuss the novel concept of including Darnold. This does several things:

1st, it relieves cap burden for the Panthers making this trade more palatable. They won't be paying Baker and Darnold a combined $38 million next year.

2nd, this gives a way to take some of the Baker cap hit without actually eating some of Baker's salary. Which saves face for our front office. Then we turn around and we trade Darnold for a 7th or a conditional 7th. With the Darnold cap hit now being only $9 million he potentially becomes tradable. Even if we need to eat half his salary, our cap hit is down to $4-5 million from the $19 million we started with from Baker's contract. Even if we turn around and and release Darnold because there are no suiters the cap hit would only $9 million.

I was tempted to post on other threads but I didn't wish to hijack them to be another Baker discussion (one of these were the DPJ thread) so I will just comment here.

I know they were highlights but as I'm watching them more than one. Baker's throws were so freaking accurate hitting the WR in stride and in some very very tight windows. Baker I don't think was as bad as many make him out to be especially ESPN and they play LOWLIGHTS of him very often. But when the kid was on I loved how he hit our WRs in the hands more often than not. When I see other QBs have to have their WRs stop to catch and then go. Not often enough in 2021 was looking forward to that rebound year. Again I hope not with our rivals. I'm looking for more of the same from DW. We will see. Trade to SeaHawks would be the best for us!

jmho

The medical staff only determines if a player is medically cleared to play. They have zero control over setting the starting roster.

I agree with your breakdown, but KS still doesn't make his decision (rather, his portion of the decision) in a vacuum. He's informed by medical, Baker, and his staff.

The Keenum portion of the convo also confused me as well. Made no sense to have one of the highest paid backup QBs and be so hesitant to start him.

This seems fair enough as a general overview of the situation. Not sure how much blame KS gets, but he has to share some in my opinion.

Also, I wonder how much of Baker playing through it was contract motivated. I am not criticizing Baker for it, I would do the same but it's human nature if 2021 was critical to your contract negotiation for an extension, you would want to give the FO another good season to look at. If he had signed an extension prior to season 2021, maybe he doesn't feel the need to prove himself. Yes, I realize he had 2 years to go on his rookie deal but so did Nick C when we extended him.


I wish Baker had been the answer and would have been a great QB for 10+ seasons for us. For all the reasons, known, & unknown it didn't work out. I =do wish him the best, except against us of course.

According to some, this is not an "agenda" and he is not a "hater."



But posting Advanced Passing Stats from a reputable site is "having an agenda" and being a "hater."

You all want to know what happened with Bake ?






He got Burnt !!

My take on Mayfield in 2021. He got hurt. He refused to sit. He played hurt. Then he got hurt again and refused to sit again costing the Browns a playoff spot. Then he asks for a trade. Seems to me he should be apologizing to Clev fans instead of asking for a trade.. I hope he ends up on a AFC North team so Myles can sack the crap out of him twice a year.

His injury exacerbated inconsistencies in his game. In that 1st half video on the Ravens game from Kurt Warner, he was pointing out some QB101 footwork mistakes that Baker was making that contributed to timing issues. Footwork was a point of emphasis from the coaching staff in a previous off-season. With our injuries (particularly along the line) meant our running game struggled to pick up the slack. It was a mess across the board.

FO now decided to move one, that should end the whole discussion then. Stefansky being wrong on playing Baker does not make him wrong on moving from him, quite the opposite.

Kitchens was wrong on playing Baker on the 2nd part of the 2019 season, and KS was wrong on playing him after he got hurt. In both cases I can't see how this makes Bakers case any better, because none of that prevents the fact that moving away from him looks like the right decision.

Baker has showed us he is not good enough to be our starter, we can't be benching our starting QB every other season.

I don't believe it to be likely. But I do cringe at so many CLE fans saying this. I have visions of Baker going to the Steelers and playing well for years - ALA Joe Haden. I think a healthy Baker is better than anyone on the Steelers roster right now and it'd be just so Browns circa 1999-2019 to see that happen.

In my opinion, Baker's mechanics have gone to hell at times in all four of his seasons. His mechanics become bad once he faces some pressure in the pocket. I coached both QBs and baseball pitchers on their mechanics. Hell, high school kids paid me for private sessions. I understand what's going on w/mechanics and I have been pointing out flaws in Baker's lower body mechanics since his rookie year and stated towards the end of that season how important it was for Baker to work w/a QB coach in the off-season. Baker has played well when things are going well and he has a completely clean pocket and a ton of time to throw, as evidenced by advanced stats that I posted earlier in this thread. With that said, I do think the injury was a factor. I noticed him putting more torque into throws w/his lower body. That can cause accuracy issues.

I have a question for you. Did Baker Mayfield have some good games and did he make some really great throws after he was injured?

Cinci game after the OBJ release.

With a big ass chip on his shoulder. He will wreck the Browns if he ever plays us as QB1 on another team. I can see it now, Browns miss playoffs losing to the 3-14 lions in a shootout.

I forget who it was - someone on the board mentioned they had a very similar injury to Baker. Basically said it was impossible to throw with normal mechanics. Add the broken humerus and harness - I personally think it was a significant challenge that made a real difference to everything from confidence to accuracy.

Eventually when Baker is cut or traded - and eventually when he starts again whether that's 2022 or at a future date - we'll know if the injury was the primary reason for regression from a strong second half of 2020, or if he was merely lucky in 2020 and in 2021 we saw 'the real' Baker. I don't think anyone has ever argued against Baker's inconsistencies. It's really about whether 2020 before the injury (wk 2 in 2021) was a trend up that was going to be sustainable - or fluke.

I think he definitely did make some really great throws after the injury, though I won't attempt to pick anything specific because my memory of last season is trash and I really don't want to refresh it, lol



I think there was also something posted on here from advanced stats of the 2nd half of the previous season and our playoff run where he was throwing quicker than most and did as well as anyone under pressure, so it's all kinda muddled. It shows he both was what you showed, but also that he can easily be the exact opposite. The simplest and most visible differentiator is the injury, but there may have been more, too. The offense didn't look or feel the same as it did before... but, was that a change to the offense, the calls, the blocking schemes, etc... or was it a change in Baker, or both? Whatever it was, it definitely didn't work.

There was a lot of talk during the previous year about how his mechanics and footwork were greatly improved, and we had a really good run to go with that. Then, things regressed. Badly. Was the regression a lack of working on things or was it a result of compensating for injury? I don't think we'll really know until we see a healthy Baker back on the field, which will end up being for another team.

He definitely made some great throws after the injury, but I can do anything occassionally with bad technique; I just won't be able to do it consistently. I can squat snatch 175# well enough for it to count in a sanctioned USAW competition, but I won't be able to do it consistently and most times I attempt it, if I pull it off, it'll be ugly as Hell, even if the weight does end up overhead.... and it's all directly tied to execution of technique, and that is frequently limited by physical limits like joint mobility. Kind of long-winded and winding, but the point is that just because he did something doesn't mean it should/could be expected consistently given the circumstances. We'd need to know a lot more truth about the circumstances (injury) than we do in order to say that.

Not sure about the second half of last season. The link I posted listed him as the QB w/the most time to throw in that 2020 season. I posted the link at the end of the rankings for Watson and Baker in regards to time to throw and percentage of off-target throws. Maybe they have information that breaks the season into quarters or halves? Not sure about that.

I don't know. I don't generally trouble myself with all of that, but I do remember bits and pieces of what I see and read here.

Does anyone think the Browns will be able to trade Baker tonight? Some insiders are saying maybe on Friday or afterwards. The compensation they are suggesting is depressing.

Come on down Carolina Panthers. . .

well they took a tackle..

The Plot thickens

Nobody has picked a QB. Are they all gonna fight over Baker?

Oops. Thought I was in the draft thread.

Baker is better than all these QB's

Baker is lucky the qbs are so bad this year...

That's not saying much at all. Is that the measuring stick
For Baker Mayfield now ? Rookie QBs coming into the league.....
Baker should be better. He's had 4 years worth of games under
His belt

I think he gets traded tomorrow... we'll see... guessing the Seahawks...

Here is the problem. Baker's ego and immaturity far exceeds his performance. He campaigned to have coaches fired when he was a freaking rookie. Called out other players. Chose Kitchens as our HC. Would not throw to OBJ because he wanted to be the center of attention. No teammates have supported him since he demanded a trade. Others supported OBJ when he wanted out. No one has made a move for him even though he would be cheap. Read the writing on the wall.

His rookie year head coach was Hue Jackson - the worst HC in NFL history...bar none. Called out a RB who whined about upgrades at RB on the first day of mandatory mini camp. Had ZERO choice of the next head coach - who almost was as bad as Hue. Would not throw to OBJ because OBJ never wanted to be in Cleveland and ran whatever route he felt like running. Making conclusions about why people don't do something is agenda-posting at its worse. OBJ wanted out as soon as he got here. No one has signed OBJ OR Jarvis Landry - guys with ZERO contract baggage nor guys someone has to give up compensation for.

Read the writing on the wall.

Yeah, that is why teams are trying to outdo one another to acquire him.

The reason(s) why he hasn't been moved has nothing to do with the drivel that you posted previously and incessantly...he couldn't pass a physical today...and there is no reason for a team to trade for a $18+ million player/contract that has been replaced by a better, $230 million player and who the team has ZERO leverage to move.

The starting two great WRs from last year's opening day lineup are also un-signed at he moment...with ZERO contractual or compensation hangups.

Dude... Carson Wentz was traded (for picks). Marcus Mariota and Mitch Trubisky have new teams.

Houston is talking up Davis Mills and Seattle "likes" Drew Lock.



If there's writing to be read, it's not on the wall it's on a giant LED billboard.

Those moves were made before Mayfield was available and as far as talking up, the Browns said Mayfield was their QB. I guess you can believe what you want to believe but FO's lie. Sad that you are taking it hook, line, and sinker.

The Browns have:
A QB they do not want
18.9m GUARANTEED THAT THEY DO NOT WANT TO PAY
An injured player that cannot pass a physical
No idea if Mayfield will be ready for the start of the season
A dream of compensation that no team will pay knowing the Browns have no leverage
Front page news of how poorly they managed the situation

Mayfield will be moved when then Browns quit screwing the pooch. Whether that's paying a big chunk of Mayfield's guaranteed salary or adding draft picks to get someone to take him or just cutting him outright, Mayfield will be gone. There are multiple teams that Mayfield could go to that would upgrade their team either now or in the future. Atlanta, Carolina, Seattle, Houston, Tennessee, Tampa (after Brady), Miami and the dark horse now the NYG since they refused Jones 5th year option yesterday. Just because you think or the teams have stated they are good at QB, the Cleveland Browns made that exact same statement not too long ago.

Let's be real, the reason Baker is not a new team yet AND the reason when he does move on any compensation will be absolute minimum is a combination of the following. I think depending on personal opinion people will put more weight on some factors than others, some might even totally ignore some of the reasons that don't suit their predisposition to Baker:

- He played hurt last year and played badly.
- He's still hurt and there is a ? of when he will be ready to play.
- Throughout his career he has played inconsistently.
- Baker is due nearly $19M
- Of the teams in need of a QB - most have already acquired their 2022 starter.
- I see only 2 possible landing spots - Seahawks and Panthers.
- By acquiring Watson and Brisset before moving on from Baker - the 2 possible potential suitors for Baker know the Browns have absolutely zero leverage.
- Both potential landing spots for Baker could easily be viewed as in rebuilding mode - Baker could end up being a one year rental, you don't give up valuable draft capital for a 1 year rental.
- With Willis dropping out of the first and Seattle with a pick at the top of round 2 - Seattle might be lost as a potential trading partner also.

The reasons a team might want Baker, and for comparison:

- He's better than Wentz, Mariota and Trubisky.
- Wentz cost Indianapolis a 2022 second-round pick, a 2022 third-round pick and a conditional 2023 third-round pick. Nothing screams bad timing on trading Baker like the Wentz deal.
- A healthy Baker was much better than Wentz in 2020. An injured Baker for 16 weeks was slightly worse than a Healthy Wentz in 2021.
- Although Baker has been inconsistent - he was an instant rookie success setting then rookie records even though he never took 1st team reps until he replaced an injured Tyrod.
- Despite 4 HC and 4 OC in 3 years - in his 3rd year after retooling his mechanics - over his last 9 games he was rated the 5th best QB in the NFL by PFF.
- That form at the end of 2020 seemed to continue in a narrow loss to KC in 2021 before being hurt the next game.

They are in denial.

Translation:

Houston and Seattle like CJ Stroud and Bryce Young