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I marvel at the fact that the Baker supporters seem.to take it personal when
Others point out Mayfields obvious flaws.
The ones that support Baker have less actual facts to support their case
Than the ones who are providing facts on why Baker isnt qualified to be the 2022 starter
For the Browns.

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Originally Posted by eotab
"and neither does the rest of the NFL apparently."

you know that statement just is not true.

Yeah, you are right in that it was at least not true in totality. I still think that he is one of the best 32 qbs in the league, so he should be wanted by some teams. I do think his immaturity, his excuse making, all his noise on social media, and questions about how he is viewed in the locker room has hurt his value. Teams might be concerned on how well he will fit in w/their organization.

With that said, I think Baker has some talent. I think he is going to have to humble himself and go all-in to improve his game and rep. I think he should simply dedicate himself to becoming the best player he can be and grow up. If he does those things, I think he can be a starting qb who can perform okay if he has a really good supporting cast. I don't think he will ever be elite because of pressure. Both types of pressure. His mechanics break down when he faces pressure in the pocket and dealing w/the pressure of excelling in crunch time. But yeah...........he can still be an adequate starter in the league. Of course, these are just my opinions and some might believe he can be elite. I am not going to argue w/those that feel that way. It's an opinion and we should all be able to express our opinions. That is......in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
I marvel at the fact that the Baker supporters seem.to take it personal when
Others point out Mayfields obvious flaws.
The ones that support Baker have less actual facts to support their case
Than the ones who are providing facts on why Baker isnt qualified to be the 2022 starter
For the Browns.


Yes, It's almost like they are second guessing AB and our FO as if they are making a grave error, which couldn't be further from the truth!


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IMO (and obviously, FWIW) the most egregious thing you stated in that old post was that Baker was significantly better than Watson, etc. EVERYONE was gushing over Baker second half of that season and on. Stuff was working even though the team had major holes. The team was working well in the areas that were 'worked on'. Baker was very up-and-down even that year. There were clear shortcomings to his game even when Browns got the W.


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Originally Posted by Rishuz
And doozie? Answer me this...how does one decide to put the time and effort into researching people's old posts? Like that activity is so foreign to me it would never cross my mind to do that. Is this place that important to you that you would take that time and effort in an arrempt to embarrass someone? This place is so weird.

Maybe they were motivated by the claim you were making?


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I am of the opinion that Baker's great year in 2020 was a lot more about his supporting cast and coaching than on how good Baker was.

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just clicking...

Some just can't get enough to quench their thirst for ...???...don't even know what to call it..!

It's like some can't escape whatever it is...it seems like some Browns fans are "possessed".







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Originally Posted by mac
just clicking...

Some just can't get enough to quench their thirst for ...???...don't even know what to call it..!

It's like some can't escape whatever it is...it seems like some Browns fans are "possessed".




I know, right.

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1917983/analytics-had-enough-yet#Post1917983

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
I was pretty high on Baker after 2020. I am prone to the same fanaticism as everyone else. Maybe it was wishful thinking, but I really did not believe that Baker's second half of that year was all Stefanski. I saw Baker consistently getting to his 2nd and 3rd reads and playing really well. I thought the proverbial light bulb had gone off. Other than the last two drives in KC, he had two really strong playoff games as well. I was for sure it was the 4 coaches and 4 OCs in three years that was the culprit and we finally had the real Baker Mayfield.

Maybe I was just drinking the kool-aid and high on that playoff season. I was clearly wrong. I knew after the failed drive in KC after week one that it was going revert back to the mean. Bad feeling in my gut.

And doozie? Answer me this...how does one decide to put the time and effort into researching people's old posts? Like that activity is so foreign to me it would never cross my mind to do that. Is this place that important to you that you would take that time and effort in an arrempt to embarrass someone? This place is so weird.
Well, that last part is a little over the top, but obviously I struck a nerve when the only goal was a little jabbing in good humor. I really didn't think about the fact that others may latch on and push something to the point where it looks like I was trying to "embarrass" you. For that, I apologize. I'm not some stalker and I wasn't stalking your posts. Truth be told, I've been a little surprised by a lot of posters' 180 on Baker after a season where he was injured.

But you, my friend, have been spinning back and forth since he was drafted. And I didn't have to search for that, I've read it, over and over.

I had merely gone back to the latest "Baker" thread after the 2020 season... to look at all of our posts about "Baker the God" lol, including my own. I had done that previous to your "Rish is always right" post so I went back to look at some of yours.

I remembered being surprised, at the time, that "even 'Rish" was on the Baker train... particularly because you were so critical beforehand.

To be fair, it's a little unusual that you are complaining about comments with someone's "post history" when you were doing exactly the same with Willie in the post I responded to.

In one year, you've gone from "Baker, the greatest thing since sliced bread" to "He looks strangely at peace, maybe he just realizes the NFL was way too hard for him".


At the end of the day, the whole idea of me posting that seems a little rude, if not "stalkish", for that, again, I apologize.


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Originally Posted by FATE
Truth be told, I've been a little surprised by a lot of posters' 180 on Baker after a season where he was injured.


I think the linked thread, if anyone wants to scroll through it, highlights exactly how people have flipped. And as I mentioned in my post - after the praise he received in that post, he played two games healthy vs KC and played well in both games and then was badly hurt in the next game and played very badly the rest of the year.

Hopefully there isn't anything I've written that is interpreted as trying to embarrass Rish.


The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by FATE
Truth be told, I've been a little surprised by a lot of posters' 180 on Baker after a season where he was injured.


I think the linked thread, if anyone wants to scroll through it, highlights exactly how people have flipped. And as I mentioned in my post - after the praise he received in that post, he played two games healthy vs KC and played well in both games and then was badly hurt in the next game and played very badly the rest of the year.

Hopefully there isn't anything I've written that is interpreted as trying to embarrass Rish.

Baker has been inconsistent since day1. The Baker Bros have always put more faith into what he's done well and his potential while his critics put more emphasis on his negative performances. There has always been legit evidence to make compelling arguments both ways, and the Browns have only recently (relatively) decided to stop hindering his progress with constant change.

For me, I do still think he'll be successful in the NFL (especially after this kick in the pants off-season can be learned from). I think his doing a 180 on his opinion of throwing coaches shows he's just as committed to improving as before, just maybe needed the push to figure it out. But at the end of the day, the Browns had an opportunity to land a much better talent at the most important position and took it. It's just the cold, hard reality of it. I'll still root for him, and I think he'll eventually do well when he lands somewhere, but I can still see that Watson is the superior QB.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
But at the end of the day, the Browns had an opportunity to land a much better talent at the most important position and took it.

I think nearly everyone agrees. including the 'Baker Bros' - and I don't blame the FO at all, and if Watson returns as good as when he left, can play in the cold, etc then the price we paid will be well worth it, possibly even 'cheap'. That's sticking with the on the field stuff. The off the field stuff is a 'TBD'.

And while Baker has without question been inconsistent - rubber stamping his career based on 2021 with a torn shoulder, broken humerus and other injuries seems a smidge harsh.


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I just remember baker in a PC making it a point that he would be the one to decide. Nobody else.

That may have been the falling off point between the QB and coach.


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Just because baker said it doesn’t mean Stefanski gets to bow out of making the final determination.


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lamp, Stefanski doesn't make the final determination. The medical staff does. In today's litigious society, you can bet your last dollar that no organization is going to allow a coach to run out a player who isn't healthy enough to play. Stefanski is receiving far too much criticism on this board. Baker wanted to play. It was his chance to earn a big contract. I don't blame him one bit for trying to earn that contract and I admire his toughness for battling through the injuries. However, he would not have been permitted to play if he was not healthy enough to do so. I don't think anyone deserves blame in this situation.

As an aside, I was hoping that the Browns would stick w/Keenum after the Denver game. I felt as if we would have made the playoffs w/him at qb. But, in the long run, he stinks, too and we were not going anywhere w/either qb.

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Back in my day, which was more recent than your day lol, the coach made the call in such situations. I’m not really blaming Ski, really, just saying. And while I backed Baker cuz he was our QB, I now like the decision to move on with DW. He’s a better QB.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
lamp, Stefanski doesn't make the final determination. The medical staff does. In today's litigious society, you can bet your last dollar that no organization is going to allow a coach to run out a player who isn't healthy enough to play. Stefanski is receiving far too much criticism on this board. Baker wanted to play. It was his chance to earn a big contract. I don't blame him one bit for trying to earn that contract and I admire his toughness for battling through the injuries. However, he would not have been permitted to play if he was not healthy enough to do so. I don't think anyone deserves blame in this situation.

As an aside, I was hoping that the Browns would stick w/Keenum after the Denver game. I felt as if we would have made the playoffs w/him at qb. But, in the long run, he stinks, too and we were not going anywhere w/either qb.

"Healthy enough to play" as deemed by the medical staff means his risk to injury has been minimized. They don't judge how well he's able to play. You're right about Baker wanting to be on the field and his toughness, but he was obviously struggling and cost us games. Everybody saw it. I blame Stefanski for not having the stones to yank him early on. If that had happened, we'd be going into 2023 with optimism and a healthy BM at qb, in playing time he would have been not far removed from the second round of the playoffs. We most likely would not have traded for DW and had the draft picks we gave up. Baker's not DW, but we've shown we can win with him and we wouldn't have the off season shirtshow we have going on now.


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If Stefanski doesn't make the final determination on whether a player plays or not - then who the hell is the Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns. Stefanski failed miserably last season when he continued to trot Mayfield out there week after week when any dummy could see that his injury was having a major effect on his level of competence. To say that Mayfield had medical clearance is just an excuse for Stefanski's incompetence. Good Head Coaches bench players all the time especially in cases of subpar performance. Yet in Cleveland, the coach gets a bye if the player is medically cleared regardless of the ability to play at a normal level. It's comments just like this that clearly show how the Browns have screwed Baker Mayfield. Starting offensive tackles and top backup out injured - shouldn't affect Mayfield's play. #1 WR missing 14 of 27 games - shouldn't affect Mayfield's play. #2 WR admitting he played at less than 80% most of the season and now being supported to be resigned because last year's numbers were off because he played injured - shouldn't have affected Mayfield's play. Playing without your #1 and #2 RB's - shouldn't have affected Mayfield's play.

Finally, after 14 games, offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt acknowledged that Mayfield's passing mechanics have been "handcuffed" by the harness.

Mayfield completed 82% of his passes in his first two games, which was the best rate in the NFL; from the injury on, his completion rate has plummeted to 59.5%, fourth-worst in the league. "It's definitely something that's hindered him," Van Pelt said. "You can just see in his mechanics down that left side [of his body] get stuck in there at times, and it's a struggle for him. ... Hopefully next year without the harness, you'll see Baker back to normal with his normal throwing mechanics. He has fought through [it]. We have a lot of respect for the fact that he has battled through that, and we know he's injured. That's where I'll leave that."

2021 results, Mayfield's problem because he was medically cleared. Not Stefanski's responsibility for the ultimate results.

Mayfield will be gone now and the Browns have by all accounts upgraded the position. They didn't upgrade the head coaching position though.


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I blame Stefanski for not having the stones to yank him early on. If that had happened,

jfan...not a lot we agree on lately, but I do agree with you on the comment above and the post in general. Any HC worth his salt would have to the team goals ahead of the goals of an individual player..especially a player who felt he had to play to show he could play through the pain of an injury.

The player doesn't get the last word on whether he is playing or not..it is supposed to be a HC decision based on input from all sources such a medical staff, GM and on up the chain of command, to ownership...the buck stops with ownership who have the ultimate power within the franchise.

How freaking stupid of this franchise to play an injured QB over the Headcoach's hand picked backup that HC brought to Cleveland for this specific reason...to step in and run the HCs offensive scheme should the starter be injured.

The buck stops at the top in Cleveland...




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we'd be going into 2023 with optimism and a healthy BM at qb, in playing time he would have been not far removed from the second round of the playoffs. We most likely would not have traded for DW and had the draft picks we gave up. Baker's not DW, but we've shown we can win with him and we wouldn't have the off season shirtshow we have going on now.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but I think the Browns would have given Baker his extension last year if they really believed in him. I think that teams not trading for Baker speaks volumes and find it hard to believe other people can't recognize that fact. His guaranteed money isn't high. Teams are giving up the farm for guys like Stafford, Wilson, and Watson. Hell, teams have been willing to trade significant value for a guy like Wentz. I think that the Browns were loaded w/talent in 2020 and supremely well coached and we still couldn't get it done. I think the Browns were moving on from Baker no matter what.

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Originally Posted by steve0255
If Stefanski doesn't make the final determination on whether a player plays or not - then who the hell is the Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns. Stefanski failed miserably last season when he continued to trot Mayfield out there week after week when any dummy could see that his injury was having a major effect on his level of competence. To say that Mayfield had medical clearance is just an excuse for Stefanski's incompetence. Good Head Coaches bench players all the time especially in cases of subpar performance. Yet in Cleveland, the coach gets a bye if the player is medically cleared regardless of the ability to play at a normal level. It's comments just like this that clearly show how the Browns have screwed Baker Mayfield. Starting offensive tackles and top backup out injured - shouldn't affect Mayfield's play. #1 WR missing 14 of 27 games - shouldn't affect Mayfield's play. #2 WR admitting he played at less than 80% most of the season and now being supported to be resigned because last year's numbers were off because he played injured - shouldn't have affected Mayfield's play. Playing without your #1 and #2 RB's - shouldn't have affected Mayfield's play.

Finally, after 14 games, offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt acknowledged that Mayfield's passing mechanics have been "handcuffed" by the harness.

Mayfield completed 82% of his passes in his first two games, which was the best rate in the NFL; from the injury on, his completion rate has plummeted to 59.5%, fourth-worst in the league. "It's definitely something that's hindered him," Van Pelt said. "You can just see in his mechanics down that left side [of his body] get stuck in there at times, and it's a struggle for him. ... Hopefully next year without the harness, you'll see Baker back to normal with his normal throwing mechanics. He has fought through [it]. We have a lot of respect for the fact that he has battled through that, and we know he's injured. That's where I'll leave that."

2021 results, Mayfield's problem because he was medically cleared. Not Stefanski's responsibility for the ultimate results.

Mayfield will be gone now and the Browns have by all accounts upgraded the position. They didn't upgrade the head coaching position though.

Completion % is often used when people come to defend Baker
In regards to his 1st 2 games. Yes he had a NFL completion %
Through 2 games but what is omitted is that Baker had
A poor TD to INT ratio through 2 games....1 to 2.
And it's not like he went up against top 5 defenses either.
The Texans and Chiefs.
Stefanski passing is geared to have a high% completion rate.
I think Baker's failure to beat the Chiefs helped lead to
The FO moving on from him

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My understanding is that KS has 'final' say, but Medical can pull a veto/trump card at any time. Regardless, the final decision isn't made in a vacuum, so I don't know if there's much of a point in pointing fingers at any 1 person.


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I think that there is healthy enough to play, which is determined buy the medical staff
There is healthy enough to be willing to play, which is determined by the player
And then there is healthy enough to play well, which is determined by the Head Coach

The medical staff felt Baker could play without significantly increased risk of injury.
That played out to be true.

Baker felt healthy enough that he was willing and wanting to play.
This certainly demonstrated his toughness.

KS felt Baker was healthy enough to play well.
That was certainly not the case
KS was wrong and that is why he is getting criticism, which I think is appropriate.

The people not get enough criticism is the Front Office.
Baker was playing at 50, 60, or maybe 70%
If Case Keenum is not good enough to give him a couple games off to heal up some then why were we paying him $10 million last year?


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Here is a Baker trade scenario I came up with and would be interested in opinions on it.

I am presuming the trade would happen after this year's
We trade Baker to The Carolina Panthers.

In return, we get a 4th in the 2023 draft with a conditional 2nd.
The condition being that if they resign him we get a 2nd rounder as well
We get Darnold and the Panthers pay $10 million of his salary.

I don't really want to talk about the draft pick compensation. I posted what I thought would be fair value. If others disagree I have no issue with that. I would like to discuss the novel concept of including Darnold. This does several things:

1st, it relieves cap burden for the Panthers making this trade more palatable. They won't be paying Baker and Darnold a combined $38 million next year.

2nd, this gives a way to take some of the Baker cap hit without actually eating some of Baker's salary. Which saves face for our front office. Then we turn around and we trade Darnold for a 7th or a conditional 7th. With the Darnold cap hit now being only $9 million he potentially becomes tradable. Even if we need to eat half his salary, our cap hit is down to $4-5 million from the $19 million we started with from Baker's contract. Even if we turn around and and release Darnold because there are no suiters the cap hit would only $9 million.


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I was tempted to post on other threads but I didn't wish to hijack them to be another Baker discussion (one of these were the DPJ thread) so I will just comment here.

I know they were highlights but as I'm watching them more than one. Baker's throws were so freaking accurate hitting the WR in stride and in some very very tight windows. Baker I don't think was as bad as many make him out to be especially ESPN and they play LOWLIGHTS of him very often. But when the kid was on I loved how he hit our WRs in the hands more often than not. When I see other QBs have to have their WRs stop to catch and then go. Not often enough in 2021 was looking forward to that rebound year. Again I hope not with our rivals. I'm looking for more of the same from DW. We will see. Trade to SeaHawks would be the best for us!

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The medical staff only determines if a player is medically cleared to play. They have zero control over setting the starting roster.


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I agree with your breakdown, but KS still doesn't make his decision (rather, his portion of the decision) in a vacuum. He's informed by medical, Baker, and his staff.

The Keenum portion of the convo also confused me as well. Made no sense to have one of the highest paid backup QBs and be so hesitant to start him.


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Originally Posted by Jester
The medical staff felt Baker could play without significantly increased risk of injury.
That played out to be true.

Baker felt healthy enough that he was willing and wanting to play.
This certainly demonstrated his toughness.

KS felt Baker was healthy enough to play well.
That was certainly not the case
KS was wrong and that is why he is getting criticism, which I think is appropriate.

This seems fair enough as a general overview of the situation. Not sure how much blame KS gets, but he has to share some in my opinion.

Also, I wonder how much of Baker playing through it was contract motivated. I am not criticizing Baker for it, I would do the same but it's human nature if 2021 was critical to your contract negotiation for an extension, you would want to give the FO another good season to look at. If he had signed an extension prior to season 2021, maybe he doesn't feel the need to prove himself. Yes, I realize he had 2 years to go on his rookie deal but so did Nick C when we extended him.


I wish Baker had been the answer and would have been a great QB for 10+ seasons for us. For all the reasons, known, & unknown it didn't work out. I =do wish him the best, except against us of course.

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According to some, this is not an "agenda" and he is not a "hater."


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To say that Mayfield had medical clearance is just an excuse for Stefanski's incompetence. Good Head Coaches bench players all the time especially in cases of subpar performance. Yet in Cleveland, the coach gets a bye if the player is medically cleared regardless of the ability to play at a normal level. It's comments just like this that clearly show how the Browns have screwed Baker Mayfield.

But posting Advanced Passing Stats from a reputable site is "having an agenda" and being a "hater."

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You all want to know what happened with Bake ?






He got Burnt !!

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My take on Mayfield in 2021. He got hurt. He refused to sit. He played hurt. Then he got hurt again and refused to sit again costing the Browns a playoff spot. Then he asks for a trade. Seems to me he should be apologizing to Clev fans instead of asking for a trade.. I hope he ends up on a AFC North team so Myles can sack the crap out of him twice a year.


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His injury exacerbated inconsistencies in his game. In that 1st half video on the Ravens game from Kurt Warner, he was pointing out some QB101 footwork mistakes that Baker was making that contributed to timing issues. Footwork was a point of emphasis from the coaching staff in a previous off-season. With our injuries (particularly along the line) meant our running game struggled to pick up the slack. It was a mess across the board.


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Originally Posted by Jester
I think that there is healthy enough to play, which is determined buy the medical staff
There is healthy enough to be willing to play, which is determined by the player
And then there is healthy enough to play well, which is determined by the Head Coach

The medical staff felt Baker could play without significantly increased risk of injury.
That played out to be true.

Baker felt healthy enough that he was willing and wanting to play.
This certainly demonstrated his toughness.

KS felt Baker was healthy enough to play well.
That was certainly not the case
KS was wrong and that is why he is getting criticism, which I think is appropriate.

The people not get enough criticism is the Front Office.
Baker was playing at 50, 60, or maybe 70%
If Case Keenum is not good enough to give him a couple games off to heal up some then why were we paying him $10 million last year?

FO now decided to move one, that should end the whole discussion then. Stefansky being wrong on playing Baker does not make him wrong on moving from him, quite the opposite.

Kitchens was wrong on playing Baker on the 2nd part of the 2019 season, and KS was wrong on playing him after he got hurt. In both cases I can't see how this makes Bakers case any better, because none of that prevents the fact that moving away from him looks like the right decision.

Baker has showed us he is not good enough to be our starter, we can't be benching our starting QB every other season.

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Originally Posted by PerfectSpiral
My take on Mayfield in 2021. He got hurt. He refused to sit. He played hurt. Then he got hurt again and refused to sit again costing the Browns a playoff spot. Then he asks for a trade. Seems to me he should be apologizing to Clev fans instead of asking for a trade.. I hope he ends up on a AFC North team so Myles can sack the crap out of him twice a year.

I don't believe it to be likely. But I do cringe at so many CLE fans saying this. I have visions of Baker going to the Steelers and playing well for years - ALA Joe Haden. I think a healthy Baker is better than anyone on the Steelers roster right now and it'd be just so Browns circa 1999-2019 to see that happen.


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
His injury exacerbated inconsistencies in his game. In that 1st half video on the Ravens game from Kurt Warner, he was pointing out some QB101 footwork mistakes that Baker was making that contributed to timing issues. Footwork was a point of emphasis from the coaching staff in a previous off-season. With our injuries (particularly along the line) meant our running game struggled to pick up the slack. It was a mess across the board.


In my opinion, Baker's mechanics have gone to hell at times in all four of his seasons. His mechanics become bad once he faces some pressure in the pocket. I coached both QBs and baseball pitchers on their mechanics. Hell, high school kids paid me for private sessions. I understand what's going on w/mechanics and I have been pointing out flaws in Baker's lower body mechanics since his rookie year and stated towards the end of that season how important it was for Baker to work w/a QB coach in the off-season. Baker has played well when things are going well and he has a completely clean pocket and a ton of time to throw, as evidenced by advanced stats that I posted earlier in this thread. With that said, I do think the injury was a factor. I noticed him putting more torque into throws w/his lower body. That can cause accuracy issues.

I have a question for you. Did Baker Mayfield have some good games and did he make some really great throws after he was injured?

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Cinci game after the OBJ release.


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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Cinci game after the OBJ release.

With a big ass chip on his shoulder. thumbsup He will wreck the Browns if he ever plays us as QB1 on another team. I can see it now, Browns miss playoffs losing to the 3-14 lions in a shootout.

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Originally Posted by oobernoober
Cinci game after the OBJ release.

I forget who it was - someone on the board mentioned they had a very similar injury to Baker. Basically said it was impossible to throw with normal mechanics. Add the broken humerus and harness - I personally think it was a significant challenge that made a real difference to everything from confidence to accuracy.

Eventually when Baker is cut or traded - and eventually when he starts again whether that's 2022 or at a future date - we'll know if the injury was the primary reason for regression from a strong second half of 2020, or if he was merely lucky in 2020 and in 2021 we saw 'the real' Baker. I don't think anyone has ever argued against Baker's inconsistencies. It's really about whether 2020 before the injury (wk 2 in 2021) was a trend up that was going to be sustainable - or fluke.

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I think he definitely did make some really great throws after the injury, though I won't attempt to pick anything specific because my memory of last season is trash and I really don't want to refresh it, lol

Quote
Baker has played well when things are going well and he has a completely clean pocket and a ton of time to throw, as evidenced by advanced stats that I posted earlier in this thread.


I think there was also something posted on here from advanced stats of the 2nd half of the previous season and our playoff run where he was throwing quicker than most and did as well as anyone under pressure, so it's all kinda muddled. It shows he both was what you showed, but also that he can easily be the exact opposite. The simplest and most visible differentiator is the injury, but there may have been more, too. The offense didn't look or feel the same as it did before... but, was that a change to the offense, the calls, the blocking schemes, etc... or was it a change in Baker, or both? Whatever it was, it definitely didn't work.

There was a lot of talk during the previous year about how his mechanics and footwork were greatly improved, and we had a really good run to go with that. Then, things regressed. Badly. Was the regression a lack of working on things or was it a result of compensating for injury? I don't think we'll really know until we see a healthy Baker back on the field, which will end up being for another team.

He definitely made some great throws after the injury, but I can do anything occassionally with bad technique; I just won't be able to do it consistently. I can squat snatch 175# well enough for it to count in a sanctioned USAW competition, but I won't be able to do it consistently and most times I attempt it, if I pull it off, it'll be ugly as Hell, even if the weight does end up overhead.... and it's all directly tied to execution of technique, and that is frequently limited by physical limits like joint mobility. Kind of long-winded and winding, but the point is that just because he did something doesn't mean it should/could be expected consistently given the circumstances. We'd need to know a lot more truth about the circumstances (injury) than we do in order to say that.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Not sure about the second half of last season. The link I posted listed him as the QB w/the most time to throw in that 2020 season. I posted the link at the end of the rankings for Watson and Baker in regards to time to throw and percentage of off-target throws. Maybe they have information that breaks the season into quarters or halves? Not sure about that.

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