Seems like we have had this sort of thread in previous years right before the season kicks off.

Players I think will take a giant step forward from last year, or be surprise contributors:

- DPJ - I think (hope) last year's regression was more injury driven than anything else. I still think DPJ has the physical tools to be a good WR. Not a #1 - but a really solid #2. Last year he was anything but.
- Harrison Bryant - I think he's also going to remind us why we thought he was a steal in his rookie year.
- Cade York - Feel like he's going to be a rock star for us.
- Delpit - I've always loved that pick. I think if he stays healthy he may become a true playmaker for the D.

Not pulling their weight?

- Schwartz is just too easy to single out - but he's got to be on the list.
- Njoku - as much as I loved the pick when we drafted him, I just don't see an end to his inconsistencies. He'll make great catches that will make your jaw drop, then kill a drive with a drop or missed block.
- Hate to put a back up QB on the list - but I expect healthy JB to be as bad or worse than what we had last year. As much as I like KS's offense, I think Brissett's arm talent will hold it back as much or more than Baker ever did. Seriously hope I am wrong.

** Adding guys I expect and think will play at an elite level:

- Garrett, Ward, JOK. Maybe Newsome.
- Teller, Bitonio, Conklin, Chubb, Hunt, Cooper and Watson when he plays.

There was a "surprise player" thread.

I had Delpit has one guy. I loved his college tape. It was a damn shame he got hurt. Achilles is a tough rehab.

I agree with Delpit.

Every year "the Chief" is supposed to break out and has not? I think he has improved by a lot. His body has filled out to industrial size. He has improved so much as a blocker something he was pathetic as. Last year is a bad measure because an injured qb played poorly and Hooper played more than he deserved to. I think Njoku will get a bunch of balls.

By now everyone is sick of me and JOK but I really believe in him. He was a rookie and he was good. He missed games. He was held back by Woods because Woods did not want to overwhelm him. The sky is the ceiling for him.

I think Hunt will have a lot of catches and total yards.

I want Wills to be good. But when i watch him. He is inconsistent. One play good. Then he is to upright off balance and he gets destroyed.
I hope I am wrong.

I had Nick Harris.

Boom
David Njoku he will benefit from The absence of Hooper. More targets,more opportunities to
Create mismatches. Not having a threat after Cooper means Njoku becomes a big part
Of the offense

David Bell. He should be able to get lots of chances considering DPJ or Schwartz
Have not took their games to next level

Bust
Anthony Schwartz. Overmatched. Afraid to get hit. But yet Berry is still
Convinced he can play

Tommy Togehi..he really didn't impress at OSU.
Doesn't draw double teams.the weak link on the dline

Boom; Jacob Phillips. I've liked him since we drafted him but he's been hurt. If he stays healthy, I feel he can be really good. Solid tackler who plays sideline to sideline. Bust: Anthony Schwartz. I like him and want him to do well but not showing much up until now.

Players I think will take a step forward or be a surprise contributor:

Bryant - He's going to completely outpace Njoku and be the TE focus point by week 7
York - IMHO, will solidify the position for years
Bell - if the Browns are going to any type of threat through the air, Bell will have to step up and be that "go to" guy
Newsome - his growth will continue to impress

Not pulling their weight:
Wills/Conklin - Wills will continue to be exposed at LT forcing the Browns to not exercise his 5th year option, Conklin: very suspect if he's healthy enough to play and could be an injury waiting to happen, IMO he'll miss multiple games
Njoku - one of the highest paid TE's in football will still be listed as having potential after year 6 - when will the Browns accept, he's a bust?
DT's - 2nd year in a row that the Browns field the lowest rated PFF DT's in the league - with OT issues in 2023, DT will still not be addressed in 2023
Stefanski - a 5-win season gives Stefanski a 3-year losing record and puts him directly in the crosshairs of being on the hot seat at the completion of week 18 games.

Players.

You rag on Stefanski constantly. Three year losing streak?

He is summarizing his 3 years at the helm including his projected 5-12 for this season. That would make him 24-26 over 3 seasons.

Just because I don't believe he's a good coach doesn't mean you have to agree. Yes, if the Browns only have 5-wins this year, Stefanski will have a 24-26 record over 3 years. That my friend is a losing record over his 3-year career. The Browns must post 7-wins this year for Stefanski to have a 3-year winning record. The facts hurt but it's a reality nipping at his heals. Question, how many coaches in the NFL are currently the head coach of a team going into year 4 with the talent the Browns possess with a career losing record while coaching that team? Answer: only Matt Rhule for the Panthers that's heading into year 4 with a 10-23 record with 25% of the talent the Browns field. Great company to be associated with as an NFL head coach if the Browns only win 5-games this year.

Ahhh - it dropped off the front page so I forgot about that thread.

JOK in my mind is already elite. I fully expect him to improve and cement himself as a top play making LBr. Instincts, speed/burst, intelligent, stays on his assignment - an sideline to sideline playmaker.

The title clearly says "Browns Players." Stefanski is not a player.

I do not agree with you at all.

"If" means nothing.

His record is 20-15. No "if's."

Last season 8-9. Two games were all on Baker big time. Baker was injured. It hurt his play and he played poorly.

So we will see about this year. You pulled junk about what his time with the Vikings. Cherry picking nonsense stats to make a point that was not made.

Three years losing streak is an example of your agenda on him.

Nothing personal. You are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with your opinion.

Dot connecting......expert mode.

Boom: i think Njoku will have a pretty good year stat-wise (and probably Harrison bryant) … I also think that Ford will have a good year when given the chances

Bust: I’d say Cooper won’t put up a good year stat-wise. He’s not a good outdoor player and has a bad QB to start … Also, I’ll go with Greedy. Didn’t like what I saw from him in the preseason.

From "The Master" at following the thread title.

How is JOK elite? He has skills that can make him elite. Where did he finish in the DROY voting?
I don't recall him making as many splash plays when the defense needed to make a stop.
I think he is a very good LB but he isn't top 5 yet

From what I saw last year - I expect JOK to be a top 10 player at his position this year. DPOY / DROY ... popularity contests more than true reflection of the players ability.

Boom - Cade York

Bust - Cooper. Browns will be a ball control offense featuring the RBs and TEs. He will not get usual high volume of targets. Frustration will surface.

I think defenses will roll their coverage towards Cooper when they are in zone and shadow him in man. That should open things up for others.

Boom:

Njoku, due to the reason above and he is probably our number 2 target. I also think he and Baker did not have a good connection.

I agree about York.

Hunt could have a big year. I think we will throw him the ball more.

I had AJ Green as my boom guy earlier, but he might lose snaps to Emerson???

I think JOK will have a productive year.


Bust:

All our DTs other than maybe Taven Bryan.

Ronnie Harrison.........he's undisciplined.

I can't say Schwartz because absolutely everyone on here hates him.

Boom: David Bell
Bust: David Njoku

It would be awfully nice if David Bell had a good year

Hmm.
Boom players. Michael Woods II,
D'Anthony Bell.
Demetric Felton
Sione Taki Taki, > or course .. goes without saying.

Still Booms, Greedy Williams,
James Hudson OT- ascending.
Jedrick Wills OT- solidifying
Ethan Pocic OC Proven Veteran flying under the radar.
If there has to be One Rb Boom but not all 4, probably Nick Chubb and his pass catching.

Could be Boom players A.J. Green
and Tony Fields II.
Josh Dobbs.

A bunch of Real Players who are already so proven that they are beyond Boom status:
Njoku-- in spite of how he's talked about on this message board.
Bitonio--
Clowney--
Garrett-- (when he's not hugging opponents after a game.)
Kareem Hunt
Wyatt Teller
Jack Conklin, and ,
the other one; my favorite OT whose name I can't remember, who starts often though some call him a backup.but was injured last year. (H)? Who once was a stiller at one time long ago.

Busts...
The Future of Analytics. And or,
The decisions made by Analytics in the future.

Great company to be associated with as an NFL head coach if the Browns only win 5-games this year."

If you really believe that they will only wi9n five games this year, you must be on some kind of an agenda. They won 8 with an injured QB who threw picks in the most important times in games. The defense has been upgraded and are going into their third year under Woods. Our running game and Oline are some of the best in the league.
I know you think Brissett is a bum, but your boy Baker was a bum last year, due to his injuries and arrogance. But Brissett ended up starting for Indy on little to no time to prepare for it, and still had them winning, until he was injured.

I watched Baker in the preseaon, and while he looks healthy, he was still forcing the ball into double coverage. I like Baker, and am not trying to say he is a bum, but IMO, the step down to Brissett is not that far. Our defense will win us many games this year, I would put money on it.

I don't hate Anthony Schwartz, I hate what the team is doing with him. ( A Huge difference )
Pretending he is something more than a track guy still learning the game of football which is Uber difficult 'after' your're on an NFL field.
And apparently planning to 'feature' him when he... (IF BARELY) no, NO, hasn't done Anything to show he should even be playing. (So far.)
( say Uber difficult instead of impossible, because, well, Nothing is impossible with GOD.
but, does the team "have' ta go outta it's way to prove that point? haha.

How many is the offense going to win for you?
It always comes down to offense, offense wins games so often, not just in football but in Basketball, Hockey, Soccer, team sports.
A concept So Basic, and so proven over time that it's extraordinary for the Browns to ignore it or overlook it.

Boom (per my head)
JOK
Callahan (dude can never get too much love... he's going to have Wills playing well now that he's healthy and whoever is in there at center will be serviceable)
Newsome... and really the whole secondary
The usual guys (Chubb, Garrett, Clowney, Ward, etc)

Boom (from the heart)
Hunt - I hope instead of running the wheels off Chubb like some on Twitter were saying (we really have the worst local sports reporting group), we instead give lots of carries to both Chubb and Hunt. If this is Hunt's last season here, I hope we showcase him in a way that allows us to move the offense without trying to throw it all over the field... and there really can't be anything more demoralizing for a defense than when Chubb has been pounding the ball and goes off for a breath... only for a fresh Hunt to come in.
Brissett - Hope he can just play within himself and hit open guys when they're there.
Dobbs - Would be nice to have some plays set up for him to show off his skills a little bit.


Bust
Njoku - TC showed that he's still as inconsistent as ever. Dude is going to get the snaps and looks, but I don't have a great feeling about what he's going to do with that.
Schwartz - This was just for completeness. Hate piling on the guy but good grief.
Ronnie H - I agree with Vers (I think it was Vers to mentioned Harrison). This guy is going to continue to lose snaps to Delpit and possibly others. He was a great pickup and all, but he seems to make the most boneheaded plays.

What position does he play?

Boom - Cade York, Grant Delpit, David Njoku, and Harrison Bryant

Bust - Only one, and he is the most obvious choice on offense...

Just hope that Cade York will provide kicker stability. Really the busts that needed to be cut but do not know how they are still on the team.

Everyone has their own right to their opinion. So yes, IMO - the Browns will be hard pressed to win more than 5 games. Offensively, they do not have the horses to put up over 25 points per week. If you look at their schedule for weeks 5-15, with the exception of Houston and New England, the Browns will need to score 25 points per game or more to post a victory IMO. I don't see us winning a game in the AFC North due to having the weakest WR group in the division. We also have the weakest DT's in the division. So, that would mean we will be last in passing and last in run defense in the division. That is not a recipe for winning in the AFC North.

I see the Browns losing 10 straight in the middle of the season. I see them winning 2 of the final 3 games with the final being a loss to PIT. That would mean the Browns must win 3 of the first 4 to get to 5 wins. IMO, ATL and the NYJ games are winners with the CAR a tossup and of course as explained, a loss to PIT.

You guys that insist on bringing up Baker to use in your arguments are the ones with an issue - not I. I also see the Brissett excuses are starting before we even play a game.

We’ve needed this since Dawson. It would be nice to feel comfortable inside the 40 yard line for once.

Everyone has a right to an opinion. Anyone has a right to agree or disagree. That's fine. I say we win between 6-8 games. Some are saying 10-11. Again, that's fine. I base my opinion on our weaknesses and strengths. Our strengths are not going to be able to overcome our weak WR's and our weak DT position. WE will probably have trouble moving the ball passing and stopping the run. Plus, if you look at our history we don't overcome adversity like this very well. I hope I'm wrong and we play better at these positions and JB plays better than we think he will. We'll start getting a better idea in a week.

They won 8 games with a totally different schedule in 2021.
Last year was a cupcake schedule for the Browns
Plus you add in The Ravens are healthy on defense.
The Bengals and Steelers made upgrades.
The Browns didn't face the Bills and Bucs last year
The Browns offense is facing better defenses in 2022 than 2021

All valid and plausible points.

Just curious... Are you saying Baker was more arrogant in 2021 than he was in 2020 when he helped lead the browns to the second round of the playoffs? Because I think you had it right up until the point you added the Haterade.

j/c:

The conversation on this thread has veered so far away from the actual topic that the latter is now just a distant memory.

I wonder if D'Anthony Bell could be a minor "boom" for us? Maybe on special teams as a dime defender in obvious passing situations? I like his quick-twitch and high motor. He impressed me against the Bears.

Boom - Both Njoku and Bryant. With Brissett at the helm for the first 11 weeks the tight end will be a major focus. I think the tight ends will excel in this offense with Brisett especially in the red zone.

David Bell - I think Bell will end up the steal of this draft. Just because of a slow 40 time of 4.6. That is the same forty time Jerry Rice ran when he ran at the combine in the 1980's. Now I am not saying Bell is destined for the hall of fame. But good hands , good route running, and knowing how to get open in pads are better qualities than blazing speed. See Schwartz!!! Just like the tight ends Brissett is more of a move the chains QB than taking deep shots. Look for Bell and the tight ends to be the main targets on 3rd down.

Kareem Hunt - Again looking at our QB's strengths and taking what the defense gives instead of taking shots and Hunt has good hands and run after catch ability. I'll predict most teams will try to take away the run game and the offense will be forced to use the short passing game to compliment the run. Hunt will excel in this role.

Bust - Anthony Schwartz. He is fast but not a great route runner and lacks good hands. Not a good combo for a WR.

The Steelers without Big Ben!!!

JOK is the linebacker we’ve wanted since the 90s

He is my big, bad, game-changing boom.

I won’t predict a bust.

Boom: Harrison Bryant. He will be the go to TE. Josh Dobbs. He will provide spark and take over the starting QB gig by week 3-4. Cade York. he is going to make the regular kicks and also make some long bombs. My fear is people will start complaining when he misses from 58 yards out. Come on folks, we need to keep it real once kicks start to near 50 yards. A lesser guy is LB Jordan Kunaszyk. I think he will be the ST ace people get behind. David bell. Not so much because he is great, but he can catch the ball, so to us fans he will be a big Boom.

Bust: As usual, Njoku will do what he does. He may not be a bust as a rookie, but Perrion Winfrey has been super hyped. He isn't going to be our monster in the middle. At least this year, providing a field day for some, Deshaun Watson isn't going to come back and be pro bowl type QB this season. We may even want to see Dobbs back in the games.

JB has not played a game yet. The last thing this team needs is more controversy. The media creates many stories after listening to grumbling fans. Having the media asking the coaches and other players about which QB should be playing would be yet one more distraction. If you want the team to win, it's probably best for you guys to not add fuel to the fire of the backup playing ahead of the designated starter.

The question about how will DW play when he comes back is interesting.

I go back and forth on that myself. He was in the facility since spring. He has to be highly motivated. He will be as healthy as he has ever been. He can workout on his own. He can study film and watch games. He can prepare himself to face the teams he will play. He can come back to the facility and practice with plenty of time to be ready for his first game.

How much is missed from no live games? I don't know. Will rust be a factor? I am not sure. I was wondering if the Browns will use VR in training? I have no idea how extensive they can go in VR. If you could simulate a particular defense?

I believe DW is dedicated player who will do all he can to be ready to play.

But the rust question is a valid question.

If the Browns are in contention to make or squeak into the playoffs this year when DW returns - then obviously his play on the field this year might matter a lot. I'm not sure how likely that scenario is. For me - I'm going to judge DW on his performance next year and moving forward - and to justify 3 first round picks and a (possibly) lost season of players in their prime - DW needs to be at worst a top 5 maybe top 6 QB in the NFL. Based on his performance on the field before he quit on Houston, that's very possible. Clearly the drama, the length of time away from a meaningful appearance in a game are risks ... but I think most people would back him to regain his form/ability.

I don't think I am adding fuel to the fire. I am just expressing how I think things will go. I might be right, I might be wrong.

The media doesn't need to listen to me, all they have to do is watch the games. I also don't see the QB controversy. Watson is the QB. If there is going to be any controversy it will be between which back-up is better. I don't think long term it is going to hurt anything. I think the main goal is to win as many as we can headed towards week 11. If that means one or the other back-up, fine, if it means a combination of the two, fine.

This isn't the same as going with your new starting QB and sticking with it because you at least hope he is the long term solution. Brissett and Dobbs are stop gap measures, and as such don't get the same leeway as your "starter".

At least IMO.

York for OROY

MVP dude.. MVP.

VR should be used, it can sure replicate the speed of the game....I hope he gets the currently one case settled while gone. Hope he gets his treatment done correctly. He has GUARANTEED money- hope he comes back hungry....time will tell.

I’d like to add York to my list

Jacoby is a bust. I can't imagine anyone honestly equating him to Baker. He's more like a hybrid Colt McCoy mixed with a bit of Tyrod Taylor. Anybody saying he's better than the last guy or good enough to win with consistently is a HOMER.

That seems rather extreme.

He did QB us to a win today, which means something.

I don't think he is bust, he is a career backup and the guy taking snaps right now. He played safe, he had some good, some bad but nothing exceptional or horrible.

I think Baker is a better QB but he's not with us anymore.

I'm a homer and I am proud of it.

No one is saying he’s a franchise quarterback

After game number Uno is in the books.
Booms:
Demetric Felton
James Hudson
and as always... the Underappreciated
David Njoku.
Boom.
( I'm still not rooting for Brissett, no matter how well he plays. ) ( With my luck the Browns will win 59 straight, and 3 Super Bowls all with Brissett, and I"M STILL not rooting for Brissett.) And if I did, they'd start losing again.

Njoku as a boom?

Didn't he only get 1 target?

We all know this game should have never been close and I would be happy to give Baker credit for that, but the truth is we were almost beat by Baker and a couple of good players on his team, while the rest played like rookies and scrubs. And Ski is wreckless with his 4th down calls, a good team is going to teach him that this year. But you are right, we got the win with him under center, so props for that today. Still would rather see Dobbs.

JD is an intriguing option should Brissett get hurt, but until then we must hope Jacoby gets us enough wins until DW comes back

I don't say who plays on Sundays, I just express my opinions. And right now my opinion of JB isn't that he's a bad guy, but I think his play will cost us games this season. Rather anyone wants to actually admit it or not, he almost did today. You can't tell me you weren't on the anxiety express when Baker threw a one-play TD, then drove for the go-ahead FG... I was on the edge of my seat thinking how many times will we do this, losing late in the opener.

Translation: When the Browns win w/JB, it is because of everyone else despite how terrible JB is. And when the Browns lose when Baker throws four picks and takes dumb sacks, it is the fault of everyone else. LMAO.............go root for Carolina.

I think he was talking about Dobbs

I think you might want to re-read it.

I wasn't expecting a ton, but Brissett still underwhelmed me. Everything outbreaking seemed off and he had some questionable decisions. There was the lead boots factor as well. I'm not entirely counting him out, but I am also wondering how fast we can get Mond up to speed. I'm all for saying screw it, and going all in on read-option/RPO with Dobbs and Mond until Watson is eligible to return. If they get dinged up, Vince Young might still be more mobile than Brissett (I would probably call up RG3 first, though.)

Hopefully he looks better next week.

OCD,

I'm just quoting the part I am responding to in your post.

While on paper the game shouldn't of been close, it's just not how it works.

Just look at this past weekend:

Detroit came back in the fourth to lose by 3 to the Eagles

The freaking Texans tied the Colts.....the Texans were winning the whole game

Niners / Bears.....did you expect the Bears to win?

Steelers / Cincy - i might be reaching saying did you expect Pitt to win

Saints / Falcons - did you expect the Falcons to be winning the whole game only to lose on a last second field goal?

Giants / Titans - did you expect Giants would win this?

------------------------

The season will play out and we will find out who the real contenders are, but sticking to my point.....a couple good players is all it takes to win any given Sunday.

A win is a win, no matter how it is won. Today's win is one less "if we just would've won...." scenario we do not have to talk about towards the end of the season.

I’m going to carefully say this, but James Hudson looked serviceable yesterday. Given where he was 2 years ago that’s a miracle. Bill Callahan at work

2 years ago he was playing for the UC Bearcats.

Do you remember him in preseason? (Maybe it was LAST year … and if that’s the case, that’s even more incredible). He was horrendous. Like unplayable, even in the preseason lol

On the flip side, Wills had a few really bad plays. Burns is a pretty decent player but still. I remember a complete whiff on Burns which resulted in a TFL on Hunt. And on the roughing call on Brissett at the end he just got walked back by Burns. No base, no resistance to the bull rush.

Good point about Burns. He disrupted a few key plays (I think the TFL was a key 3rd down and short that could have helped us secure a win earlier).

He mostly stayed in to block to help the run game, and did a really good job with it. His PFF rating for the game was high.

Yeah, he did a great job of blocking.

IMO he is a backup quarterback.

In the fourth quarter JB was 7 for 10. He got the team in a position to win the game.

He did not turn the ball over. He made some critical third down throws.

He left some big plays on the field.

A bust? Sorry I do think so.

I am a homer and proud of it.

Brissett had two really good throws on the last drive. A game saving throw to DPJ of about 12-15 yards after Hunt got tackled for a loss and then the final pass to Cooper to get into field goal range. Clutch plays.

JB played kinda of the way he was expected to play.

Nothing special but solid. His limitations are obvious.

However, I do believe he can be efficient. We only need him to play like he did.

We have to rely on the team to win games.

I just posted the OL grades in the other forum. They weren't that great. Safe to say that Jacoby did a nice job of not taking sacks. I am not saying he had a great game. He made a couple of horrible throws. Not sure why he leaves his feet at times? However, he avoided sacks and never once crumbled in the pocket which would create a needless sack. He also did not turn the ball over.

I am really hoping that him and Cooper can get a connection going. It was fun to see Cooper's route running on display, especially against their highly touted corner, Horn. With Brissett being able to stay in and climb up the pocket, he just needs to find the right time to release the ball to get Cooper some big gains.

Brissett doesn't even need to be very good for this. Just get some timing down with Cooper.

I agree. We desperately need Cooper to have a good run for us here

Corey Bojorquez was a Boom

placed the ball nicely on his punts.

Didn't miss the Hammer a bit.

Bro, you brought up Special teams in my thread about Keys to the Game. Damn man, how right you turned out to be!

I'll add that I hope part of yesterday is a chemistry issue that can be worked on/improved. He's going to have to start hitting on those looks he missed early in the game if we're going to hang with the likes of Chargers, Chiefs, etc.

He threw for 147 yards man. All you have to do is substitute JB with BM and that's the same thing you've been saying for years. Now suddenly there's something wrong with it? When your QB goes 18-34 for 147 yards, are you seriously trying to give him credit for the win?

Just to chime in w/this. I definitely think Baker is better than Brissett and had they exchanged places yesterday we would have won the game still … but I also understand the caveat: we also have Watson in the fold, so eventually Brissett will be the backup to Watson. That’s a good QB room.

He won't be folded in until Dec. 4th.

I don't want to assume anything till it happens. Watson has to behave himself and clearly he has a problem, the counselling has to have a positive impact and as I understand it - someone has to sign off that Watson shows remorse and has self helped. That's just for him to play this year. Folks talking about having our FQB for the next 10 years ... I think it's one month at a time and keep your fingers crossed.

And no foul on the play. A win is a win, but a few things jump out that no one is talking about. 1) Our defense couldn't hold a 13-point lead - again. As well as our defense played overall, IMO - it's all lost because we couldn't hold that lead against what is an inferior team. 2) We are not going to win many games throwing for under 150 yards. Whether its Stefanski or Brissett, under 150 won't win us many games. 3) Finally, the Browns got some breaks in a game. The roughing the passer and the no-call on the intentional grounding allowed the Browns to sneak out a victory that they had just given away. I'm happy with the win (York is a stud) but I also know that if the refs made the right calls, we'd be talking about a loss instead of a win. 4) Game Busts: Njoku, 1 target and a catch for 7-yds at 13M plus avg per year player doesn't cut it. DT play, I cannot tell you the number of times I saw Elliott get blown of the ball by the Panthers o-line. 1 assist for the entire game is bust playmaking. 5) Wills is going to grade out bad again.

Kudos:
Bryant, completely out played the 13M man. The Browns need to get him more involved.
JOK, played a solid game and was all over the field
Garrett, for 3 quarters he was a beast (even if it was against a rookie LT), need to find out why he disappears in the 4th
Chubb and Hunt, there's a reason they are considered the best RB tandem in the league. They didn't disappoint.
York, if 1 game is any indication, the Browns have their kicker problems answered for the next 10-years.

Just curious A TE gets one target and he is a bust?

What if he was open? Does blocking count for a TE?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=129a4f3c60ae4642bf1a80cd75c09bad

Not when you're paying him an average salary of over 13M per season. He's not a dang rookie, he's been in the league 5-years now and we're still waiting on consistent top tier TE performance. When is he going to produce like a top tier TE like he's being paid for? Teams don't pay TE's over 13M per season for just their blocking ability and neither should the Browns.

Maybe, but is that a bad thing. I look at it like, well, Bitonio also blocked, and Bitonio couldn't get any targets because his position is ineligible, but he is not a bad player.
So, Njoku can be a boom, with having gotten only one, and he will get more. And it's not only about the previous game.

Blocking counts. It is part of his job description. And he blocked extremely well.

It takes two for a TE to have receptions. And it also needs to a part of the game plan. On the overthrow in the endzone to Cooper.

Njoku was wide open and could have walk in if JB would have thrown to him.

Blocking counts very little IMO. Just put in another lineman.

I am not saying Njoke was a bust, you do have to get targets. I just wouldn't tout blocking. If he couldn't do that and not get open, that would be a bust.

I think the big question for Njoku yesterday was what was he asked to do? If he was told to block on 95% of the plays, him getting open would have been bad. I suspect he was given yeoman's work to do and it did it well.

Come on man, really? You are truthfully going to state that against the Panthers he was told to block 95% of the plays? Like Ballpeen stated, "Blocking counts very little IMO. Just put in another lineman." Joe Haeg is only making 2.1M to be a blocker - we're paying Njoku over 13M per year average to block when we could use Haeg. Edit - Actually it's an AAV 14.187M per year (according to the ProFootball Network) for Njoku to block.

Highest Paid TE's
1. Waller - AAV 17M - Week 1, 6 targets - 4 receptions - 79 yards
2. Kittle - AAV 15M - Week 1, injured did not play
3. Kelce - AAV 14.313M - Week 1, 9 targets - 8 receptions - 121 yards - 1 TD
4. Goedert - AAV 14.25M - Week 1, 4 targets - 3 receptions - 60 yards
5. Njoku - AAV 14.187M - Week 1, 1 target - 1 reception - 7 yards

The only pass that JB nails is the 10 yard bullet with the receiver facing him sitting in a zone. He must have done that 5 times yesterday. Low and outside fastball with a lot of mustard.

Come on man, really?

I did not he WAS told to do anything. I don't know what his assignments were for each play but please be my guest and e plain in play and assignment in detail. I will be in awe of your brilliance. Or you can act like I said something I didn't so you can toss rancor.

Come on man, really?

Watch the game

Tell that to the runningback and quarterback.

He was thrown to once. He made the catch. If his assignment is to block on a play and he does that.

What is he suppose to do?

A good block can spring a play. It is a team game.

That's a good observation - throws threading the needle or trying to put air on the ball to get over a defender and drop it into the receiver were bad. But it's week 1. We'll see what comes together over the next 3-4 weeks and we could see improvement.

Same thing with Njoku - for all the back and forth on Njoku after week 1 .... I am pretty certain that if he has 5 catches for 35 yards after week 5 everyone will agree that is not what you expect from your $13M Tight End. Great that his blocking was good - but not what wee are paying $13M for. But also not his fault if he was not asked to make the splash plays we have seen from him in the past. . . . wait 3-4 weeks and we can re-evaluate.

1. if he was blocking, he was told to block... what TE in their right mind is going to give up an opportunity to get into a route and catch a ball? They're not. So, if he was blocking, he was told to block.

2. the folly of the above statement is that it changes the defense. If you trot out another lineman and take out your only TE, the defense gets to sub, and they now know that there is, for certain, one less route runner. Then, there is the part where they have likely brought in one more bigger body instead of trying to cover that TE with a Linebacker or a Safety. "Blocking" may count very little (it doesn't), but personnel matters a LOT. Even if that TE never runs a route, especially with an athletic one like Njoku, the defense MUST respect the potential and account for it. That keeps one more smaller body out there and it also makes the defense respect the middle yardage rather than creeping everyone up.

j/c...

I like how (bust) Anthony Schwartz actually caught a pass... and then immediately fell to the ground, as if in shock.

I liked the catch and I liked the end around and the motion - the end around when he actually ran the ball, you got to see a glimpse of his speed. I understand why that has to be attractive to the FO, he looked blazing fast - it's just a case of: Can he catch? How can you utilize him and have him be impactful (in a positive way).

I've been very critical of Schwartz. Hopefully, that catch will build some confidence and he will be a contributor this year.

The problem with the end around is he immediately sought the sideline to avoid contact.

Barring some huge turnaround as the season moves on he's not long for this team beyond this year in my opinion.

Imagine if the team had resigned Landry. Landry and Cooper make a nice 1-2 punch.

Cooper takes off to many plays, he's a lazy ass bum

DPJ will be a number one because of lazy ass Cooper

Are you letting a dollar amount influence your judgement of play on the field?
If so Why?

You want a new signature? How about, "The voice of reason against the voice of reason."

Are you talking about Schwartz? I'm not letting anything influence me - I'm hoping a guy who has underperformed so far in his career "gets it" and somehow rewards the faith that the FO has put in him. I've criticized him for bad play - I'll mention the flash of potential when I see it.

While I agree - I also don't think Landry wanted to be here. I can't imagine the Browns offered less than he signed for - maybe I am wrong there. IDK.

* Edit: Just looked it up - Landry is on one year, $3M. Browns are $30M under the cap based on this web site: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space
Hard to believe the Browns FO wouldn't realize we are a better team paying Landry $4-5M for 1 season.

Is this something you noticed in the game?

I haven’t heard the narrative of Cooper being lazy. I’ve heard the narrative of him not doing well on the road or in the cold weather though. I saw a few clips of him toasting the CB but no pass went his way.

I agree. That said, it is also important to get that tackle out in to a route now and again and actually toss him the ball to keep the pass possibility alive.

Let me put it this way, I would rather the TE be an offensive weapon as a receiver rather than as a blocker. This isn't just about Njoke. It is about any team in any league. I also understand this is just my opinion.

Exactly and when you're paying a guy an AAV of 14.187M you would think that you'd get excellence.

Myles Garrett was a beast in that game though I think he appeared to slack of a bit in the 4th quarter but none the less, he had the highest PFF Grade for any player at 94.4 so I'm obviously wrong. He should be recognized for his effort and was obviously instrumental in the Browns win on Sunday.

If we are going to hand out kudos, we also need to point out weaknesses' if this team is going to get any better.

Njoku on the other hand didn't fare as well. In fact, of the 56 TE positions Graded for TE's last week he graded out at 37th out of 56 with an offensive grade of 56.1. The 5th highest paid TE in the league at an AVV of 14.187M went out an delivered a 56.1 grade for his money. Let's not kid ourselves, there's posters on this forum that have said he had a good game. When I say Njoku is a bust IMHO, I say it because his play for the last 5 years and 1 game proves he is a bust. I really get tired of hearing the same BS every game that he has potential and he's going to break out. Well, against Carolina he did exactly what he's done for the last 5 years and that's grossly underperform, even without Hooper here to blame it on.

Highest Paid TE's
1. Waller - AAV 17M - PFF Grade 69.2 - 14th
2. Kittle - AAV 15M - Week 1, injured did not play
3. Kelce - AAV 14.313M - PFF Grade 91.9 - 1st
4. Goedert - AAV 14.25M - PFF Grade 58.6 - 29th
5. Njoku - AAV 14.187M - PFF Grade 56.1 - 37th

As a side note, Wills continued his struggles against Carolina as he graded out 60th out of 64 OT's rated with a PFF Offensive Grade of 51.7.

Making sweeping declarations after week 1 is a fool's errand. Baker's 47.0 PFF grade would make him a mega bust by your logic there as it was worse than Njoku and Wills. Wills was lined up across from pro bowl pass rusher Brian Burns (who he held to a comparable 53.5 grade.) Shaq Thompson is a good coverage LB. How did Ekwonu grade against Myles? (It was a 41.2) Opponents make a difference.

We had a run heavy gameplan that didn't involve Njoku very much. We had a lead for most of the game. KC slings the ball everywhere, all the time with Mahomes. Vegas was behind all game. Kelce and Waller got more opportunities in the passing game than Njoku (7+ to 1 targets.) Goedert graded similarly (with 4 targets) going against the likes of Derrick Barnes/Rookie Malcolm Rodriguez at LB and the team he was going against also had a starting safety (T. walker) get ejected during the game.

Please read the post. This wasn't about Njoku just in game 1 - it's the same production he has given since he's been a Brown. The same thing with Wills. Wills graded out his first year as being replaceable and his 2nd year just barely as a backup. Now, in game 1 against what most consider an inferior foe, he posts an offensive grade again in the replaceable tier. Ekwonu is a rookie playing his first NFL game against what many consider the best DE in the NFL. Wills is in year 3, the year the Browns must decide if they are going to exercise his 5th year option and he's still performing at the replaceable level.

For Njoku, in 2021, 19.4% of his total catches for the entire year happened in a single week. 31.4% of his total yards gained for the entire year occurred in that same week. The rest of the year just like the previous 4, he was missing in action. This kind of performance is nothing new to Njoku - it falls directly in line with his 5-year history. His PFF offensive grade for the game was his production level for all his snaps on the field which was 89% of the offensive snaps taken. The PFF grading system evaluates every player on every play during a football game, that's blocking and pass catching. That's an AAV 14.187M per year for a player that for 89% of the snaps graded out at an offensive PFF Grade of 56.1 which is tiered as replaceable (tiers posted by Vers).

I don' t care what Baker, Ekwonu, or Thompson graded in the game. What I care about is the Browns are paying a guy an AVV 14.187M that was supposedly held back previously by Hooper that just gave his team a replaceable performance when he's making top 5 money for the position but still playing at 37th level.

I have to ask. Was he doing what he was assigned to do? In this run heavy O and with the RT position injuries, did the play calling require he stay in to block? I don't object to calling out a player when he isn't doing what he's assigned to do. ie.... If his job was to run a route and catch the ball. If he isn't getting open on his routes and or is dropping the ball, that's on the player. However, if he is getting open and the QB isn't throwing him the ball, that's on the QB. If the passes he is targeted with are off target, that's on the QB. If he's asked to stay in and block, he doesn't have the option to catch a pass at all. That's not on him.

You seem to be basing your opinion solely on statistics while taking nothing else into account. How can he catch passes not thrown to him? How can he catch passes when he is staying in to block? As far as the frustration level of his numbers not adding up to his salary I understand that. The how and why that happens is often times more complicated than you seem to make it sound. What I don't understand is using nothing but a stat sheet in assigning blame as to why that happened against the Panthers. Stats are a useful tool when combined with what happened on the field. They aren't worth crap when you use them alone to reach a conclusion.

They paid him to pair him with a QB of Watson's quality, not to pair him with Jacoby Brissett. Sadly his usage rate with Brissett (and a backup OT) will be lower than it should be with Watson. Pair someone with a meh QB and don't have them run a bunch of routes, and they won't put up stats.

When he's used, as in your 31.4% of last years production week, he can be effective.

On Njoku - let's review after week 4.

The PFF grading system grades the player on every play. In this case, if Njoku was to stay in and help pass block - he was graded on it. If his job was to run block, he was graded on it. If he was a receiver on the play - he was graded on it. Don't become confused that his PFF grade was based on his 1 catch on 1 target. He was on the field for 89% of the offensive plays and he was graded on every single one of those plays whether he was running a route or blocking. The totality of all those plays on the field gave him his grade which was 56.1. Like I said, this is not new news for Njoku's production. He's been doing the exact same thing for 5-years now. Yes, I posted his one productive game last year with his receiver stats and lack of production in the other games, but the PFF Offensive Grade is for every play he was on the field. When you have a player that you're paying AVV 14.187M at top 5 for his position, you should expect to have a complete player. 56.1 is in the replaceable tier of the PFF scale and graded every play he was in the game (blocking and receiving).

Yes it was Rishuz, Had a friend down at the game and he was texting me how Cooper wasn't running hard at all so I started paying attention whenever he was able to view.

His dad is a Cowboys fan and said he did the same thing there, and a guy at work is a Raiders fan and said the same thing. He'll play good one game then take a game off.

That's very disappointing, I hope he doesn't continue that behavior.

He's a 4 time pro bowler so he must be doing something good ! lol

Hopefully I'm wrong

Amari Cooper should have had 125+ rec yards and 1 or 2 TDs in the game if Brissett could have got him the ball.

Brissett is so so bad.

You expected anything different????????????????????????????????????

I only expected him to be so bad.

well, he exceeded your expectations:)

Surely looks like he should have.

Thanks for posting that !

Damn. Hope Amari's dad doesn't see that...

Lol!

I just assumed that's who posted it.

"So Jim, I hear that Amari's parents are in the crowd today."

"Yes they are, that's his dad over there with the video camera."

"Ah, yes, what a nice looking couple."







"And I think that is Bill Belichick right behind him, giving him directors input, to film the bench area."

Honestly, I don't know what some people expect. This isn't Madden where the QB can sprint right and throw 50 yards across his body to the left corner of the end zone effectively. The throw where he had to get it over the underneath defender before the over the top defender got there at the right sideline wasn't an easy one, either. Also seems a bit strange to complain about a pass that he completed to someone else for a 1st down. It's also hard to tell if Cooper was running full speed on the deep ball where his defender fell or not. If so, he's slower than I thought. I think it's more a case of Cooper slowing down to give Brissett a window before the deep safety while Brissett expected him to go full speed. They need live game reps together. Chemistry takes time.


I'm not saying Brissett had a great game (he didn't), but extrapolating Cooper's potential yardage based on those plays seems questionable.

AVP press conference.

Interesting to hear his comments on Njoku.

I really like Van Pelt

It was interesting to hear his comments across the board.

Him speaking of Cooper makes me feel awful about saying he was a lazy bum

Maybe that's why Cooper has 4 PB's because he does things to help the team win

and for a fan like myself it's not obvious because he's not catching the ball

Van Pelt schooled me tonight !

I shouldn't judge a player, because a coach who knows what he is doing is

way better then a beer drinking fan on a Sunday afternoon !

That be me ya know !

lol !

You're a good soul, bro!

Thanks Vers, I try to learn and I should never judge

I don't have the knowledge

That's why I come here to learn

When guys like AVP talk it comes from a deep well of information.

They see things daily at the micro level. Then they study the film to back up everything. Each position coach then looks and they all collaborate.

PFF is a great tool but it is not everything. Game plans are made specifically around favorable match-ups. They change weekly.

It still takes eleven doing their job to make plays work.

I mentioned in another thread that putting Hunt and Chubb on the field together is all about putting your play makers on the field.

Get the ball in their hands. This offense with JB it is imperative to use the tool bag.
Some games certain guys will get the touches. Other games it may be different guys featured.

Plus game plans...teams you play that other teamss do not...strength of schedule...playing certain teams at certain times of the year...injuries on your team...injuries for the other team...game flow...weather...COVID...coaching and roster stability...PFF factors in none of that - not that any stat COULD. It's just another stat that can be used incorrectly or deceitfully just like any other stat.

Lastly, PFF is owned by Chris Collinsworth...who is possibly the WORST color analyst in NFL history...at least among those who are/were so "revered". I now turn off the sound when he talks as it's simply awful.

j/c:

Njoku has come a long way … props to him and the staff for his development. He’s earned his contract and praise.

I hope we keep using him in the pass game

Not sure you should feel awful. You were doing what a significant majority of fans do. I am always amused by "experts" who claim "the QB missed an open receiver, or a DB blew a coverage or even a player blew a block. I don't know how that is so certain when you really don't know what a player's assignment would be for a specific play. I think you can tell from a coach's comments sometimes if they think player performed well or not.

I'd like to see our 2 WR's on injured reserve come back and play to see if they can develop and help us. Jakeem Grant and Isaiah Weston. I know Grant is a little small possibly a slot WR, but Weston is 6' 4. He could help.

I agree about Grant. I thought he might be the PR answer we were looking for.

But, unless the coaching staff is completely inept and doesn't find that PR answer by the end of the season, I don't believe Grant will ever play a down as a Brown.

If he did somehow vie for a WR spot next year (especially after that injury), he'd have to break the top 5 on the depth chart and be a significant ST contributor.

That's not going to happen. Imo.

Weston, I don't know.

5-12 projection
2-1 reality so far