Deshaun Watson can return to Browns facility next week; not allowed to practice until November Adam Gretz, Yardbarker - 10h ago
Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson is still serving his 11-game suspension, but starting next week he will be eligible to return to the team's practice facility where he will be able to work out on his own.
Watson was suspended 11 games by the NFL after he faced two dozen lawsuits from women that accused him of sexual misconduct during massages. He has settled 23 of those lawsuits.
He was initially given a six-game suspension, but the NFL appealed that ruling and pushed for a full-season suspension. Eventually, the NFL and NFLPA agreed to the 11-game ban and a $5 million fine.
Watson has not actually played in an NFL game since the 2020 season after sitting out the entirety of the 2021 season while he was still a member of the Texans. It remains to be seen what sort of game shape he will be in when he returns after nearly two full seasons away. He will be eligible to play in the Browns' final six games of the season, four of which will be on the road. Three of those games will be against AFC North opponents.
Market Leader Of Dog DNA Tests - Cutting-Edge DNA Test Platform Ad embarkvet.com Market Leader Of Dog DNA Tests - Cutting-Edge DNA Test Platform Despite the lawsuits and the inevitable suspension that everybody knew was on the horizon, the Browns still gave up multiple first-round draft picks to acquire him and then signed him to a fully guaranteed $250 million contract extension.
The Browns have been using veteran Jacoby Brissett in Watson's absence, and he has played well in helping lead the team to a 2-2 start that has them tied for first place in the AFC North.
Brissett and the Browns host the Los Angeles Chargers on Sunday.
I feel so weird about the situation when compared to back in August. We have not lost our games because of QB play IMO. We are actually much improved in that area, but have lost games because of defensive execution, coaching, and being outplayed in the 4th quarter.
What I’m saying is this: will Watson make our defense any better? Maybe he will make up for some issues because of his Uber talent, but we also have to remember he hasn’t played in a long time
I somewhat agree. We are not 2-2 because of Brissett. We are 2-2 because of the coaching staff. I'm not sure Watson would have been able to overcome the really poor job of the staff so far this season.
For the most part our O calls have not been bad and we have had good game plans. JB is limited in his talents as a QB. It is true he has not lost the games although I do think he broke down this past game in the 4th qtr but we lost because of some coaching decisions and because of our Defense on a whole.
On that first failure on a 4th and goal from the 3 my negative is the play call for our 3rd down play more so than the 4th down call - but we should have taken the sure 3 points.
JB didn't lose the game but hopefully with Watson in there He would WIN the game which JB cannot or has not. jmho
i agree, and the big reason is that DW is gonna try to feed cooper regardless of who is covering him. JB is fine but he's too worried with making the big mistake. even if the coverage is tight, gotta get your best WR targets and give him a chance to make a play on the ball. DW will do that.
Brisset is playing WELL and is below Carson Wentz at 16th in QB ranks and we are 2-2. There is a direct correlation there and he has thrown two INT's in the 4th Quarter on late drives. We have to stop acting like these bad QB's aren't hurting us. He's thrown for barely 200 yards a game and has two game clinching INT's.
He is a lateral move from Baker, which is genius by the coaching staff but both bad in Q4, both are average on their best day.
Mid QB, mid results. That is not to excuse the collapse at the Jets, or Myles Garret hot rodding himself onto he bench when Clowney is injured, because more than anything that cost us the game at the Falcons.
No idea what the criteria is I assumed it was based off QB ratings. Either way he's a mid QB getting mid results. Seems like a great guy, a bit of a nerd but seems like a great team mate.
Jacoby Brissett has been doing a great job managing the game. Taking what the defense is giving, not turning the ball over, allowing the running game to dominate, and converting 3rd and shorts really well. The offense as a whole has been just fine. This team should be 3-1 right now. We have had secondary breakdowns which are very concerning because they have happened now 2 years in a row. The Panthers and Jets breakdowns looked just like early last year breakdowns vs the Chiefs and Chargers. Why does this keep happening? If not players then Joe Woods is only answer. Some names have changed in the secondary but the DC has not. I have also been disappointed in our special teams. The Jets recovered easily and the Steelers should have recovered a week later. What is being done to fix that?
Only other call I really disagreed with and would still disagree even if they would have converted was the 4th an goal play on Sunday. They were 3rd and 1 and lost 2 yards. If they gained a half yard I would say go for it and let Brissett sneak to the first. Losing 2 yards should have thrown up red flags and said kick the FG. I think it is important to get a lead every chance you get. Now if the game was 17-7 Browns late in the 3rd and they decided 3 points does not put the game away but a TD does. The defense has been solid and if we don't convert it puts an offense that has only scored 7 in almost 3 quarters go length of the field then fine go for it. That was not the case. They passed on getting the lead and then shortly after trailed 10-0.
For the most part our O calls have not been bad and we have had good game plans. JB is limited in his talents as a QB. It is true he has not lost the games although I do think he broke down this past game in the 4th qtr but we lost because of some coaching decisions and because of our Defense on a whole.
On that first failure on a 4th and goal from the 3 my negative is the play call for our 3rd down play more so than the 4th down call - but we should have taken the sure 3 points.
JB didn't lose the game but hopefully with Watson in there He would WIN the game which JB cannot or has not. jmho
JB has played well the first three games. However I think he had a hand in helping lose the last game. He msde mustske after mistake misding wide open receivers. Starting with the first series. He looked at a wide open Chubb around the five yard line then turned and threw to a covered wr in the end zone. He doesn't look like he is able to get through his progressions fast enough.
This is my thought too. He’s done a nice job for us, but he wasn’t great in big spots last game. He wasn’t the reason we lost, but also a reason we lost.
Oh, he's definitely played well for us. In fact, he's played well above his head when you look at what his historic production is. Hopefully, the scheme and players around him can keep him playing at that higher level more often than not and mitigate how often he regresses to his mean.
Just fyi, Jacoby is 9th in QBR, which is pretty much the standard measuring stick and 6th overall in the PFF QB grades.
6th on PFF and throwing for like 200 yards a game is wild.
Eyes suggest he is a bottom half QB (16-32) playing above his level slightly above mid. Which is great, but the running game and playcalling have made it VERY easy.
Brissett has exceeded my expectations - based on his first 3 games. I hope he bounces back to closer to that form than his game 4 showing.
Watson should be in a different stratosphere no matter how PFF have graded JB so far. And to those referencing the 'eye test' instead of relying on PFF as a barometer, pretty sure I read a fellow Dog on these boards opining about NOT using just one source to grade out a player. I agree that while JB has overall been a pleasant surprise, I disagree he is in the top 6 in terms of real performance and value to the team. While I am not going to feel comfortable with Watson as the face and QB of the franchise when he starts ... I am interested to see how dynamic the offense with him back running things.
Just fyi, Jacoby is 9th in QBR, which is pretty much the standard measuring stick and 6th overall in the PFF QB grades.
6th on PFF and throwing for like 200 yards a game is wild.
Eyes suggest he is a bottom half QB (16-32) playing above his level slightly above mid. Which is great, but the running game and playcalling have made it VERY easy.
I wasn't trying to argue w/you. I was just providing information. However, are you also discounting the importance of QBR?
It seems to me that multiple sources should be used to evaluate a player. His tape, his advanced stats, PFF, the eye test. Not sure if an article from one reporter is the best indicator.
Brissett has exceeded my expectations - based on his first 3 games. I hope he bounces back to closer to that form than his game 4 showing.
Watson should be in a different stratosphere no matter how PFF have graded JB so far. And to those referencing the 'eye test' instead of relying on PFF as a barometer, pretty sure I read a fellow Dog on these boards opining about NOT using just one source to grade out a player. I agree that while JB has overall been a pleasant surprise, I disagree he is in the top 6 in terms of real performance and value to the team. While I am not going to feel comfortable with Watson as the face and QB of the franchise when he starts ... I am interested to see how dynamic the offense with him back running things.
its only 3 games in, but being 6th shouldn't be surprising. he's doing exactly what Baker was doing for most of the 2020 season, and like Purp said, that year he was balling. but its ALSO true that JB is playing with the same level of talent that Baker had that year as well.
its lets be clear: it's real performance. these games matter.
can he sustain it for 11 games? we will see. but you know what we're not talking about in a QB thread?
batted balls. leading the league in turnovers. sloppy footwork.
yea, JB is a backup, but he is a mechanically sound QB. you know what you have and want you don't, and you can build an amazing game plan with a QB who stays consistent. Stefanski through 3 games has the browns rated as the best offense in the league with a QB who is just competent.
I think if JB plays at the same or close to the level he played at for games 1-3 then there are at least 6 possible 10 teams that would want him as starter over who they have now. And that's include the Panthers. If that's who he really is and plays to that level, I don't know that I'd call him a back up. I hope it continues.
I do know this much, if he is playing top-5-ball when DW is back, they better not switch, I might lose my mind. At that point, he would have something DW doesn't; chemistry, nuance, and the love of ALL of the fans.
I do know this much, if he is playing top-5-ball when DW is back, they better not switch, I might lose my mind. At that point, he would have something DW doesn't; chemistry, nuance, and the love of ALL of the fans.
I doubt that will be a problem, he did the same thing in Indy. Started out strong, then faded off as the season continued.
I do know this much, if he is playing top-5-ball when DW is back, they better not switch, I might lose my mind. At that point, he would have something DW doesn't; chemistry, nuance, and the love of ALL of the fans.
You might as well understand that you are going to lose your mind.
I am not sure that is possible since you seem to have lost it long ago.
I do know this much, if he is playing top-5-ball when DW is back, they better not switch, I might lose my mind. At that point, he would have something DW doesn't; chemistry, nuance, and the love of ALL of the fans.
They aren't playing DW an ungodly amount of money to sit behind a backup. Haslam would make himself look like the most ignorant owner in the league and we all know he isn't going to allow that to happen.
but you know what we're not talking about in a QB thread?
batted balls. leading the league in turnovers. sloppy footwork.
Also missing are all the excuses of how bad the OL sucked, how guys are running the wrong routes, how coaching is holding the qb back, etc, etc, etc. So, that's been refreshing.
but you know what we're not talking about in a QB thread?
batted balls. leading the league in turnovers. sloppy footwork.
Also missing are all the excuses of how bad the OL sucked, how guys are running the wrong routes, how coaching is holding the qb back, etc, etc, etc. So, that's been refreshing.
Liar.
No one said the OL "sucked"...no one said guyS were running their own routes - just one guy who was a cancer...who ever said the coaching was holding back the QB?
Nothing on this board in the last 10 years has been more refreshing than when you took a break from trolling it.
The starters on the OL are great. I'd venture to guess when you get to third stringers the talent would fall off. Hopefully we won't have to see that, again.
Outside the football I want to see a man who’s has used his suspension to grow on a personal level.
He should be rusty and the pressure on him will probably be immense. He can’t afford to to do or say anything controversial in his comeback season. The media will just wait for him to slip and say something controversial. A decent mentor would tell him to talk as little as possible outside football related things. I think it’s fair to expect him to need at least 3-4 games to come into rhythm, probably the rest of the season. I’m not worried about his physical status but I have concerns about his commitment and mental status. Nobody walks thru such media storm without being affected and his previous QB stint down in Houston wasn’t exactly a walk in the park.
Let’s hope for us supporters, the city of Cleveland and the Browns that everything works out well. Football is so much more fun then talking bout this [censored].
When we keep the playbook simple and don't use the condensed version as a whole our offense executes the plays much better. Its when we get into year two and start using in depth play book the O starts to well SUCK!!
D. Defense A. Always W. Wins G. Games the game is always won by the defense. (Not a misspelling of dog.)
When I first saw the 49ers and later the Bronco’s I was thinking to myself what’s the right approach to spend our salary cap? Do the Browns has a history of great defense?
D. Defense A. Always W. Wins G. Games the game is always won by the defense. (Not a misspelling of dog.)
When I first saw the 49ers and later the Bronco’s I was thinking to myself what’s the right approach to spend our salary cap? Do the Browns has a history of great defense?
No, and I go back a good way. We have had our share of good defenses, but none would be what I would call great. Some years it could be called borderline pansy.
Look around the league. The highest paid players are QBs. The best teams [for the most part] have the best qbs. We had a terrible qb. Now we have a top-tier one in the wings.
Look around the league. The highest paid players are QBs. The best teams [for the most part] have the best qbs. We had a terrible qb. Now we have a top-tier one in the wings.
JMHO, but you are assuming the Browns have gotten the same QB from 2-years ago. That may or may not be true, but we'll see. The absolute worst thing that could happen, since the Browns foolishly guaranteed the entire deal, would be a significant injury or injuries.
Before you go off the rails on me with your name calling and general spitefulness, I'm just wondering how those teams with the same outlook as you are feeling about now - like Denver with Wilson (which many campaigned for the Browns to sign) or Ryan in Indianapolis or Prescott in Dallas who's missed 15 of his last 38 games (40%). None of these guys are currently living up to their top tier expectations based on their super high pay. Some of us will remain cautiously optimistic until we see how Watson actually performs on the field. Watson wouldn't be the first top tier QB to switch teams for the big bucks and not give the same results. For the sake of the loyal Browns Fans, I hope he brings his "A" game, but you never know.
Not sure what steve said to make you laugh, but I'm assuming it was in response to my post.
Hear me out on the importance of having a top-tier qb as opposed to having a great defense. Would one great defensive player elevate the entire team? Could a great qb elevate the the entire team? How many excellent defensive players would it take to really make the team a legit Super Bowl contender? Could one great qb make a good team into a great team?
Who won the last two Super Bowls? Rams and Tampa Bay, right? What was the main difference between the Rams of 2021 and the Rams of 2020? Didn't they make a huge trade to get Matthew Stafford to replace their former #1 overall draft choice? What about TB? Weren't they 7 and 9 in 2019 w/Winston at qb? Didn't they win the Super Bowl one year later w/Brady?
Imagine this hypothetical if you will. The league decides to redistribute the talent across the league. Each player from every team is put in one huge pool. All teams are left w/no players and a lottery is held. Who is the first pick? I'll say a qb. Do you disagree? How about top 3? Top 5? Top 10? How many qbs would be in the top 10 versus defensive players?
Teams give up the farm for QBs. The Rams gave up a ton to draft the aforementioned Goff. Think about what teams gave up for guys like RGIII, Wentz, and even Trubisky? How did that work out? It's so hard to predict how college qbs will project to the NFL, yet teams keep drafting them high. Ask yourself why?
I mention all this because the Browns went all-in on acquiring a QB who has already proven to be elite. He's not an older qb like Brady or Wilson. He's also a lot younger than Stafford. Heck, I think he is actually younger than Baker [I could be wrong about that.] I think he is only 26. And remember that reportedly, 13-14 teams were interested in trading for him and at least 5 agreed to Houston's steep trade demands.
I'd love to have a great defense, but it starts at QB and if you don't have a top-tier one, you don't have squat.
Look around the league. The highest paid players are QBs. The best teams [for the most part] have the best qbs. We had a terrible qb. Now we have a top-tier one in the wings.
When I do my research around the league I see that paying a QB top dollar is often a risky and short term project. For every Mahomes, Allen and Burrow we have a Prescott and a Wilson. The teams basically put all their eggs in one basket when they pay a QB more then 20% of the salary cap. Often they have a window of a couple of seasons to win something before the salary cap restrict their chances. Is that a fair description Vers?
You also mention ‘we had a terrible QB”. I don’t like to talk about Baker because he’s not part of our organization any longer but since you open up the can I will address some of your comments on him.
To say Baker was a terrible QB is a lie. He had two good seasons, one mediocre and one season where he was mostly injured. Put things into perspective Vers. He arrived to the NFLs worst organization with a 1-31 record in their previous two seasons. He had to deal with 4 HCs in 3 years, 2 GMs and a unstable owner. Not to mention that Colin Coward and his media friends was on his back the whole time and all the drama surrounding OBJ and himself. In the end he wasn’t good enough to be our franchise QB but to say he was terrible is to be dishonest.
Baker gave us supporters hopes and good moments. Our first play off win against the Steelers was a magical moment and I will never forget our TD celebration with him, Higgins and the red carpet. We can like or dislike his personality and maybe he isn’t good enough to be a top tier QB but to say he WAS terrible is to rewrite history. I personally liked Baker. He was excellent in his interview with Colin, his commercials was funny and authentic and in his best season with us he made me feel good. That’s the memories I will take with me when thinking of Baker.
We have now committed ourself to DSW. I think nobody questions his talent and previous achievements on the field but what we don’t know so much about is the rest. I think it’s fair to have question marks on his personality, his judgement and if he has the same long term commitment as we hope. Maybe everything works out well but to give a QB with so much uncertainties and questionable character so much guaranteed money is a gamble.
I’m with you that the best teams mostly have a top tier QB and that’s probably the right way to go but just look at the Bronco’s, if they are unlucky they’re irrelevant for the next 4-5 seasons. Let’s hope we have better luck.
Getting tired of the "lie" comments for stating an opinion. I have said people are lying, but I do so when they attribute a quote to me that I never made.
Why not just talk to the other Baker guys? Why do you keep addressing me? We see things differently and that is fine w/me. However, my opinion is not going to change because you call me a liar.
Not sure what steve said to make you laugh, but I'm assuming it was in response to my post.
Hear me out on the importance of having a top-tier qb as opposed to having a great defense. Would one great defensive player elevate the entire team? Could a great qb elevate the the entire team? How many excellent defensive players would it take to really make the team a legit Super Bowl contender? Could one great qb make a good team into a great team?
Who won the last two Super Bowls? Rams and Tampa Bay, right? What was the main difference between the Rams of 2021 and the Rams of 2020? Didn't they make a huge trade to get Matthew Stafford to replace their former #1 overall draft choice? What about TB? Weren't they 7 and 9 in 2019 w/Winston at qb? Didn't they win the Super Bowl one year later w/Brady?
Imagine this hypothetical if you will. The league decides to redistribute the talent across the league. Each player from every team is put in one huge pool. All teams are left w/no players and a lottery is held. Who is the first pick? I'll say a qb. Do you disagree? How about top 3? Top 5? Top 10? How many qbs would be in the top 10 versus defensive players?
Teams give up the farm for QBs. The Rams gave up a ton to draft the aforementioned Goff. Think about what teams gave up for guys like RGIII, Wentz, and even Trubisky? How did that work out? It's so hard to predict how college qbs will project to the NFL, yet teams keep drafting them high. Ask yourself why?
I mention all this because the Browns went all-in on acquiring a QB who has already proven to be elite. He's not an older qb like Brady or Wilson. He's also a lot younger than Stafford. Heck, I think he is actually younger than Baker [I could be wrong about that.] I think he is only 26. And remember that reportedly, 13-14 teams were interested in trading for him and at least 5 agreed to Houston's steep trade demands.
I'd love to have a great defense, but it starts at QB and if you don't have a top-tier one, you don't have squat.
Though I somewhat agree with what you are saying, your thought process about the defenses couldn't be more wrong. Let's not forget that the LARams went out and secured DB Ramsey in 2019. In 2020, the LARams had the #1 ranked defense in the NFL. It's no secret that the LARams entered 2021 with the preseason picked #1 defense and even went as far as to bolster it more by adding Vonn Miller during the season. The Rams had also added a new DC in 2021. Yes, the LARams added Stafford and they won the Super Bowl with him as their QB but to think that he's the only reason that the Rams made it to that level because he was the only difference is not totally accurate.
To be fair, the last 10 Super Bowls featured the following 13 QB's: Elites = Brady 5 times, P. Manning (2), Wilson (2), Mahomes (2), Jackson, Ryan, and Stafford - Non Elite - Kaeperneck, Newton, Foles, Goff, Garoppolo, and Burrow. That's 7 elite QB's with Jackson being a question mark at the time of the Super Bowl and 6 non-elite QB's that includes Burrow who's still on his rookie deal. I'm not so sure that elite status is what opens the Super Bowl door. It hasn't worked for Bress, Rodgers, Rivers, E. Manning, Roethlisberger, Prescott, Cousins or Watson over the last 10 years all of which could be considered elite. The QB position carries significant weight that's for sure. Being elite doesn't guarantee anything. Being non-elite doesn't count you out either.
How dare you respond to a poster with a different opinion than yours on a public debating / discussion forum !!! He knows much more football than you, just be silent and don't respond to him unless it's to say "yes sir".
Getting tired of the "lie" comments for stating an opinion. I have said people are lying, but I do so when they attribute a quote to me that I never made.
Why not just talk to the other Baker guys? Why do you keep addressing me? We see things differently and that is fine w/me. However, my opinion is not going to change because you call me a liar.
An opinion isn't 100% fact.
You're entitled to whatever opinion you want but you wrote "we had a terrible QB" as a universal fact. That’s why I react. If you instead say that in your opinion BM is a bad QB and maybe follow that up with a few balanced "why's" then it's maybe not a big deal. I personally appreciate your other takes about football and the Browns in particular but when it comes to Baker you seems in my opinion to lose some objectivity and sometimes I think you goes too far. Am I totally wrong Vers?
I wasn't laughing at you. Everything you said about the qb position is true and I am behind 100%.
I was laughing at the comparison of qbs. Wilson is 33 and on the downside of career. He hasn't been the same the last couple years due to the beating his taken. The trade and the contract was terrible. Ryan is 37 and Dak is 29 and has had some injuries. Comparing that to DW who is 26 and in his prime window.
Agree, I think DW's talent coupled with our running attack, we score several more TDs than JB has scored. My fear is HC falls in love with the pass instead of running it. Our kicker has now won a game and lost a game- we will see if he stays confident. He's NEVER missed two important FG before- never is strong word.
Other posters have complained about drafted players and GM- I still trust whole current staff- lot more than ANY in last few decades. Time will tell how this year works out. Unfortunately, it seems to be another lost year for us old farts.....GO Browns!!!
Agreed. With DW we would have won these 3 games as lon as he's the same player. I said it at the seasons beginning we would only win 6-8 games. I'm sticking to that prediction.
Watson will help a lot. He is a difference maker, but Jacoby is playing well. We are not losing games because of our offense. Before the year, oober through a number out there of us scoring 17 or less. We are killing that number. It's wild how many excuses were made for Baker and now it's like we are getting bad qb play, even though he is playing better than Baker.
Vers overall JB is playing better than Baker but that INT. was ridiculous all he had to do was run. It had Baker written all over it. As soon as he let it go, I could see what was going to happen. He threw it right to him for Gods sake!!
Vers overall JB is playing better than Baker but that INT. was ridiculous all he had to do was run. It had Baker written all over it. As soon as he let it go, I could see what was going to happen. He threw it right to him for Gods sake!!
That was awful.... can't throw an INT in that situation... either make the play or throw it away...
I somewhat agree. We are not 2-2 because of Brissett. We are 2-2 because of the coaching staff. I'm not sure Watson would have been able to overcome the really poor job of the staff so far this season.
It's on Brissett as much as it is on anybody else. Brissett is holding a rating of 87ish total and most people are happy with his play (as you seem to be). In the 4th quarter of games that are +/- 7 points, he is 23 of 37, 0 TDs and 3 INTs for a rating of 45.2... I'll leave it up to you how much of that is Brissett, how much is Stefanski, but these games are too damn competitive to have your QB crap the bed like that in the 4th quarter consistently...
His rating by quarter/and half is: 1st - 98.7 2nd - 111.5 FIRST HALF - 106.6 3rd - 75.8 4th - 46.0 SECOND HALF - 62.3
thank you... I've been wondering how much.of an upgrade Watson is...and now I know watson is a huge upgrade in the fourth quarter! ready to have him playing
You religiously defended Baker to the point of chastising posters for disagreeing w/you about Baker. But Baker had the the 52nd ranked QBG 4th quarter ranking since 2018. He had the worst QBR in the entire league last year in the 4th quarter. He was ranked 30th in QBR, ahead of only two rookies, in QBR in one score games last year.
thank you... I've been wondering how much.of an upgrade Watson is...and now I know watson is a huge upgrade in the fourth quarter! ready to have him playing
Then let me finish this for you.
Throughout his career, Watson's ratings by Quarter/half:
1st - 103.8 2nd - 100.3 FIRST HALF - 101.9 3rd - 101.8 4th - 111.5 SECOND HALF - 107.1
So that should be what we have to look forward to. If his 4th quarter and late game numbers drop off once he starts to play here, then I think that will help a lot as to who is to blame......
You religiously defended Baker to the point of chastising posters for disagreeing w/you about Baker. But Baker had the the 52nd ranked QBG 4th quarter ranking since 2018. He had the worst QBR in the entire league last year in the 4th quarter. He was ranked 30th in QBR, ahead of only two rookies, in QBR in one score games last year.
Your takes are not consistent.
I think you are exaggerating me chastising anybody about Baker... but my posts are fairly consistent. I thought a lot of Baker's late game problems were on Stefanski's play calling and game management... now Brissett's late game numbers are equally pathetic..... so until we have a QB come in here and do well in 4th quarter and end of game situations, I will continue to think the QB is a part of it but that KS is also a significant contributor to it. As I posted above, Watson's numbers in the 4th quarter are excellent, if he gets here and suddenly starts to struggle, that will help us all know what the problem is....
Who gets credit for Baker's best year and Jacoby's best year? No one?
Double standards are lame.
So is trolling everybody and trying to make everything about Baker, so this will be my last post involving Baker..
I have admitted that I like KS, that I think he is a really good HC/OC for 54 minutes... I have serious questions about his end of game play calling, we never seem to have any rhythm, and everything seems to be so damn difficult and we throw an inordinate amount of INTs in those final 4 minutes situations because we are throwing into coverage....
Kirk Cousins had very good 4th quarter numbers in MN when KS was there in 2019 as the OC.. I just haven't seen it here yet... Watson will be the best QB he has ever had in that situation, I hope Watson nails it every week and can put my doubts to bed of KS in crunch time...
Vers overall JB is playing better than Baker but that INT. was ridiculous all he had to do was run. It had Baker written all over it. As soon as he let it go, I could see what was going to happen. He threw it right to him for Gods sake!!
Not only that, there was a defender behind him that was starting to act like he was going to pick the ball.
He was playing like that was the last play of the game.
From a football perspective, Watson was allowed in the facilities this past Monday, Oct. 10th. He can't start practicing w/the team until Monday, Nov. 14th. After that, he will be able to play in a game 3 weeks later.
We haven't discussed this at all, but I think that the Browns coaching staff and FO are facing a real dilemma. How do they get Watson ready in that 3-week period while giving Jacoby enough reps to play effectively in those three games? Once the season begins, the starting qb gets almost every rep in the practices that lead up to the game. It's not like the summer camps where reps are divvied up.
I have been thinking of how I would handle that situation if I were the HC and I can't come up w/a really good answer. You can't just throw Watson in there w/only one week of practice reps, can you? You don't want to risk losing games because you are not getting JB enough reps for two straight weeks, do you? You don't really want to see Watson sit the bench this entire year, right? [Those questions are from a football perspective, not an individual fan perspective.]
I don't know what they will do. But, we do have some very intelligent men in our FO and HC. What do you guys think?
We haven't discussed this at all, but I think that the Browns coaching staff and FO are facing a real dilemma. How do they get Watson ready in that 3-week period while giving Jacoby enough reps to play effectively in those three games? Once the season begins, the starting qb gets almost every rep in the practices that lead up to the game. It's not like the summer camps where reps are divvied up.
Vers in this time of the season most of the practice Wed. - Fri. Is installing the game plan. It would be JB getting the reps as he is the starting QB for the week. Watson would get his practice in Mon. Tues with some players volunteering to work with him and have his Coaches running the sessions.
You actually brought up some good points. I can't think of a good answer much like yourself. But one thing you can bet on is no matter which decision is made if it doesn't go absolutely perfect people will be all over Stefanski's ass about it. I do think that tab made an excellent point however. It would be hard to be giving reps to watson during the game plan portion of practice. As you well know while some may not, yes, every team has a system. What is not true however is that you use that system the same way against every opponent. You use the parts of your system that exploit your opponents weakness whatever they are. So the plays you use within your system are adjusted week to week and your players must watch a lot of film to see where and how to expose those weaknesses in using the plays that will be called. There are tendencies that will show up on film that will show you what can be exploited.
If I had to venture a guess, which is all this is, tab pretty much nailed it. The game plan portions of practices will be given to JB. Since he will be your starter you really can't afford to do that portion any differently. And while it's true that mandatory practices are limited, I also agree with you that the players are hungry to win. While I have never played on this level I think we both know to get to the NFL level a player must be hungry and compete. Even at the high school level I would do anything within the confines of the rules to be the best I could be, dedicated to my team and team mates and do everything in my power to win games. Sure, people can site examples of players who do not give their all at times, but I don't think that includes the vast majority of players and I don't see any of those types of characters on our O. No amount of practice prepares any player for the speed of the game. That has to be done in games. The main things practice accomplishes during the off season and preseason is learning the system. During the season it is used to game plan and practicing how you will be using the system against your upcoming opponent. So if people think practice will help watson be game ready in terms of the speed of the game, I believe they are mistaken. That will take getting some games under his belt. How many games? I have no idea.
I totally agree with you that Stefanksi is a good HC. We may have different reasoning at how we arrive at that conclusion but we do arrive at the same conclusion none the less. I don't believe any rational thinking person felt the team would do well with Brissett at QB. I believe most people thought the D would be carrying the O. That's not how it turned out to be. In three games Brissett has thrown 4th quarter int's but then again,, he isn't a top tier QB in the league. Never has been despite what you see on PFF. I believe if you look over his career you can easily see that Stefanski has found ways of taking advantage of his strong suits while helping to disguise his weaknesses. That's a good HC.
The team is doing slightly better than I had expected. Not from the standard of W's and L's but from the standpoint of being competitive on a weekly basis. I do think Woods is a weakness. But even then I have questions about that. Is it Woods who was telling AB before the season began he didn't need help on the DL and LB? Or is it AB's analytics telling him the positions didn't deserve to be invested in? I don't think any of us on here with the exception of maybe one poster has any insight to help answer that question. And if he does have any insight to that question, he isn't talking.
The answer to that question would go a very long way in telling me where the problem lies at this juncture.
Watson will help a lot. He is a difference maker, but Jacoby is playing well. We are not losing games because of our offense. Before the year, oober through a number out there of us scoring 17 or less. We are killing that number. It's wild how many excuses were made for Baker and now it's like we are getting bad qb play, even though he is playing better than Baker.
You missed the point as per usual due to your hatred. The comment was that in 2021 the Browns averaged 25.5 PPG on their way to winning 11 regular season games. The issue was the defense was allowing 26.1 PPG. In 2021, with an injured QB, the Browns regressed to an average of 20.5 PPG with the defense improving to allowing 21.8 PPG on their way to an 8-win season. With Brissett's history, 17 PPG or less was not out of the question considering the way he had performed the last 2-years. The upside was the Browns defense had improved year over year so if Brissett upped his game the Browns might be a viable contender. The issue became that with the influx of talent into the AFC, scoring less than 26 PPG probably would net you a losing record. Through 5-weeks, the Browns are scoring 26.6 PPG but let's not forget that our team has had the third easiest schedule through the first 5-weeks. The defense is allowing 25 PPG through the first 5-weeks while facing only one top 15 QB - that is not good.
The next 6-weeks will tell a lot about this team. Can Brissett and the offense continue to put up 27 points per week with the step up in competition or will Brissett come down to his past level of play? Will the defense turn it around or is the 25 PPG showing thus far is just a preview of worse things to come? With the schedule we have over the next 6-weeks, Brissett and the offense need to maintain or improve slightly while the defense has to show massive improvement if the Browns are going to win more than they lose the next 6-weeks.
The point is and continues to be, this is a team game and to be successful, the team has to perform - not just one player. Today, that's not happening in Cleveland and that falls directly on the coaches because the talent is there.
6 games into the season, and finally got to the 6th game in the season for me to go "ok, here's why DW is starting the first game eligible". normally, 2-4 would say the season is a lost cause anyway, but damn, we're only a game back for the division. right now the ravens and bengals are 3-3, and we're 2-4 with the steelers. with 6 games left when DW comes back, we can still be in the playoff hunt, nevermind the division.
today's loss against the patriots was the first time for the ENTIRETY of the football game where i said "we win this game with DW." This is why we brought him in here; to win games where the team is hellbent on shutting down the run. same thing with baker mayfield, teams want the ball in JB hands. even a rusty DW is gonna have a huge impact on defensive game planning.
Stefanski is a great offensive mind, imo. the last 2 games made it clear that we really needed a QB to take this offense over the top. im just hoping DW really gets his crap together and is able to be ON the field. at some point, teams are gonna shut the run game down. so no matter who's calling plays, you need that QB who can put the team on his back.
obviously he doesn't play defense, but we would be minimum 4-2 with DW. not gonna claim 6-0 or 5-1, but we're definitely not 2-4.
I don't know what our record would be w/Watson right now, but JB wasn't the problem until yesterday. On the other hand, you are never going to be a big winner w/QBs like Brissett or Baker. That's why I supported the trade. This year's going to be rough, but Watson will elevate this team and we should be contenders starting next year.
I still think Stefanski is facing a daunting task of getting Watson enough practice reps to be ready for Houston while making sure JB is getting enough reps to prepare for each of the next 3 games.
Panthers QB, Baker Mayfield benched for Sam Darnold. If Baker was a team player, would have sit when hurt and kept his mouth shut, he’d still be a starter in Clev this week if healthy. Now he’s riding the pine as a broken QB backup in Carolina. A learning moment for young QB’s in the NFL.
If Baker was a team player, would have sit when hurt and kept his mouth shut, he’d still be a starter in Clev this week if healthy.
Yeah, he should have done the HC's job for him. You know, name the starting QB on the roster for games. It looks like the only way the job of the HC will get done around here. If someone else does it.
Panthers QB, Baker Mayfield benched for Sam Darnold. If Baker was a team player, would have sit when hurt and kept his mouth shut, he’d still be a starter in Clev this week if healthy. Now he’s riding the pine as a broken QB backup in Carolina. A learning moment for young QB’s in the NFL.
Baker's ego and mouth always over rode his actual talent. The incredible talent that surrounded Him at Oklahoma hid his SHORTCOMINGS as a QB. He is a career backup now.
I'm ready to watch the best QB (by far) that the Browns have had since '99. I won't be surprised if he's rusty and takes a few games to find his groove. But, once he does, he's special on the field. I don't care about playoffs this year, it's not happening. But, with Watson coming in now, it'll be fun to watch the team turn the corner for next season. With a truly elite QB, this should be a playoff team beginning next year.
Lord it would be good from a team / level of play perspective for that to be the case. I'm not as confident as you that he will be as good as he has been touted - 2 years is an enormous amount of time to be out of elite/competitive sport and think it's possible to recapture the same level as before. . . . but I am ready to see the results. I will be at the game vs the Ravens in 2 weeks so I hope the rust knocks off quickly.
2023, there will be no excuses. he'll have 6 games under his belt to knock off the rust, a full uninterrupted off-season and training camp going into week 1 next season.
Cause right now the only reason there isn't a hint of a QB controversy is because the defense has been an abomination this season. flip our record around if the defense shows up half the games, and we'd be seriously wondering whether turning it over to Watson is the right move this year.
you know im a watson fan, but with everything that happened and the way JB played this season, Watson really better be a franchise QB. like, extremely better than JB and baker next season.
Sounds like he satisfied the shrink requirements so far and hasn't re-offended. That much is good. I want an elite QB too, just wary of the baggage that comes with this one. And I agree with Swish, "Watson really better be a franchise QB. like, extremely better than JB and baker next season." So far, he hasn't done a damn thing for Cleveland except get himself paid and disciplined.
If Baker was a team player, would have sit when hurt and kept his mouth shut, he’d still be a starter in Clev this week if healthy.
Yeah, he should have done the HC's job for him. You know, name the starting QB on the roster for games. It looks like the only way the job of the HC will get done around here. If someone else does it.
Yeah it’s on the HC for playing him hurt. But you know how players like to hide the extent of their injuries just to play. Baker could have communicated that to the HC. You know, so the HC can make a better decision on who to start. Instead Baker get’s hurt again and again still playing hurt knocking the Browns out of playoff contention. So the Brown’s decided to go looking for a true franchise QB. Baker whines & pouts and asks for a trade. Done…Cya.
I do admit that it feels good to start this new era, even if it’s just to get it going. who knows how well Watson will do, but we can hope for him to knock some rust off and give us momentum into next year
This is a public service announcement. The medical staff decides whether or not the player is healthy enough to play. They overrule both what the player and coach wants. Sheesh! I thought everyone knew that by now????
If Baker was a team player, would have sit when hurt and kept his mouth shut, he’d still be a starter in Clev this week if healthy.
Yeah, he should have done the HC's job for him. You know, name the starting QB on the roster for games. It looks like the only way the job of the HC will get done around here. If someone else does it.
Yeah it’s on the HC for playing him hurt. But you know how players like to hide the extent of their injuries just to play. Baker could have communicated that to the HC. You know, so the HC can make a better decision on who to start. Instead Baker get’s hurt again and again still playing hurt knocking the Browns out of playoff contention. So the Brown’s decided to go looking for a true franchise QB. Baker whines & pouts and asks for a trade. Done…Cya.
I could see that Baker was ineffective no matter what he said, I'm pretty sure an NfL head coach could see it, since it is part of his job. Well, maybe not with the Brown's though.
This is a public service announcement. The medical staff decides whether or not the player is healthy enough to play. They overrule both what the player and coach wants. Sheesh! I thought everyone knew that by now????
Wrong, the medical staff clears the player to play - not to decide whether the player plays. The HC always makes the determination on who actually plays. There are healthy scratches every week in the NFL, last minute decisions on injury recovery, and performance decisions. Let's make this truthful public service announcement, "The HC decides who plays and doesn't play as long as it is not overruling the medical professionals." After a medical clearance there is one and only one decision maker on who plays and that's the HC, PERIOD!
This is a public service announcement. The medical staff decides whether or not the player is healthy enough to play. They overrule both what the player and coach wants. Sheesh! I thought everyone knew that by now????
Wrong, the medical staff clears the player to play - not to decide whether the player plays. The HC always makes the determination on who actually plays. There are healthy scratches every week in the NFL, last minute decisions on injury recovery, and performance decisions. Let's make this truthful public service announcement, "The HC decides who plays and doesn't play as long as it is not overruling the medical professionals." After a medical clearance there is one and only one decision maker on who plays and that's the HC, PERIOD!
The medical staff decides if the player is safe to play from a health/medical standpoint. Does he have a concussion, is the shoulder at increased risk of worsening injury. They do not decide if a player's injury will affect his play.
Addendum: For those of you who like to question people's credentials, I have been a team physician (not NFL).
Those two sentences are essentially the same. Neither states whose decision it is to actually play (that'd be the HC) - they both state in order to be eligible to play, medical staff has to approve first.
If I read "The medical staff decides whether or not the player is healthy enough to play." - It does not insinuate the medical staff decides who plays. To me it reads the same as your sentence ""the medical staff clears the player to play - not to decide whether the player plays.""
Those two sentences are essentially the same. Neither states whose decision it is to actually play (that'd be the HC) - they both state in order to be eligible to play, medical staff has to approve first.
If I read "The medical staff decides whether or not the player is healthy enough to play." - It does not insinuate the medical staff decides who plays. To me it reads the same as your sentence ""the medical staff clears the player to play - not to decide whether the player plays.""
Right, that was the point of my gif reaction. Steve (the second statement) called Vers (the first statement) wrong, then proceeded to correct him by repeating what Vers already said. It seemed to be an attempt to argue just for the sake of arguing.
Think about how freaking dumb this conversation is. Everyone in the world knows the coach chooses who plays. Well, I guess you can argue the GM has a say in that. However, the BS started w/a criticism of Stefanski playing an injured player. I correctly stated that the medical team decides who is healthy enough to play. And steve and the other Fabulous Baker Boys say that the coach has the final say. Duh!!!!
The point is......if the player is healthy enough to play, why would the coach not play him? The only reason is because the dude sucks. I have maintained that Baker sucks for years. That's been proven to be true, but can you imagine the uproar from The Fabulous Baker Boys if we would have benched Baker after the medical team cleared him? LMAO......they are still crying about us moving on from him to this day.
Kevin Stefanski: Reinstated Deshaun Watson ‘ready to roll’; Browns will ‘put the blinders on’ to any fallout Updated: Nov. 28, 2022, 3:51 p.m.|Published: Nov. 28, 2022, 3:50 p.m.
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio — Kevin Stefanski said Monday he never considered holding Deshaun Watson out of Sunday’s game in Houston because of the potential volatile nature of the game.
It marks Watson’s first game back from his 11-game suspension under the NFL’s personal conduct policy, and it takes place in the city where most of accusations of sexual misconduct from more than two dozen massage therapists took place. He’ll face the 1-9-1 Texans, who are gunning for the No. 1 overall pick — the second of the three first rounds picks they received from the Browns in the blockbuster and controversial trade for Watson.
“I think Deshaun has the support of his teammates, has the support of this organization,” Stefanski said Monday on a video conference. “Really right now, his focus and my focus is on the Houston game and that’s what we have to do as players, as coaches, is put the blinders on. Whatever’s going on the outside really can’t matter to us. We’ve got to focus on doing our job. And I think he definitely understands that.”
The game could feature protests inside and outside the stadium, and the same expletive-laden chants he heard in Jacksonville when he played in the preseason game there Aug. 12th. Whether or not he was rattled by the backlash, Watson went 1-for-5 for 7 yards in his three series en route to a 39.6 rating.
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“A lot of people will be watching this game,” Texans coach Lovie Smith told Houston reporters Monday. “Hopefully, we have our best effort we’ve had this year.”
Officially reinstated Monday and back on the roster, Watson spent the first five seasons of his career with the Texans, who traded up with the Browns in 2017 to draft him No. 12 overall. He made the Pro Bowl three times as a Texan, but things went south last season when he asked to be traded, and with allegations of his misconduct piling up.
He sat out all last season — still getting paid his entire $10.5 million base salary — and hasn’t seen the field 41-38 loss to the Titans on Jan. 3, 2021 — a span of 700 days.
“It was a little bit different last year,” Smith said. “He was in the building. We didn’t have a lot of interaction. It’s in the past. Now, it’s about a great quarterback coming to town with a history with our franchise.’
It would be understandable if Watson, who returned to practice Nov. 16, is rusty, but Stefanski wouldn’t handicap it.
“I certainly get it but can’t really control that for me and for Deshaun and for all of our players,” he said. “Just gotta keep the focus on doing our job. Think about there’s some guys that don’t play in preseason football and then they get in there week 1, need to get tackled first time before they feel like they’re ready to go. So I think some of those things may be true, but I don’t wanna put anything on Deshaun. I think it’s unfair for me to say at this point, we don’t know.”
Based on what he’s seen in practice the past two weeks, where Watson’s helped run the scout team and taken a few reps with the starters, Stefanski is fairly confident that he’ll look like the elite player he is.
“The next step is obviously being out there taking all the first-team reps,” Stefanski said. “He’s been doing a nice job getting the defense ready with the scout-team reps that he’s got. So I think he’s done a nice job with his time away physically staying sharp, mentally staying sharp. So I think he’ll be ready to roll.”
Watson has worked tirelessly during his suspension to be ready for this moment, working daily with his private quarterbacks coach Quincy Avery, and staying in his playbook. By the time he got back, he knew the terminology and plays like the back of his hand.
“I have confidence in Deshaun based on his preparation and, really, the focus is on just him doing his job,” Stefanski said. “I mean, we’re still gonna be all about the team effort, still offense, defense and special teams. So this is never, ever gonna be about one person. But as it relates to Deshaun, I believe in his preparation, I believe that he worked really hard on a bunch of things to be ready to go.”
The Browns also believe that preseason game was an aberration. Receiver Anthony Schwartz ran a wrong route on one of hits three targets, and dropped two others. The feeling is that Watson will look a lot more like the smooth operator he’s been since his Clemson days who can make every throw and also make plays with his legs. In 2020, the last season he played, Watson led the NFL with 4,823 yards and finished second to Aaron Rodgers with a 112.4 rating. He also threw 33 touchdown passes to only 7 interceptions. The talent-challenged Texans went only 4-12, but Watson made his third straight Pro Bowl.
“Deshaun’s played a lot of football,” Stefanski said. “He’s played in a lot of big games. So I think the tape is out on him, I think everybody has seen his ability to make all the throws. very athletic, can make plays with his feet, but can really hurt you from the pocket as well. So I’d say his versatility is something that you’ve seen over the course of his career.”
Stefanski was careful to give Watson most of the first-team reps throughout training camp, until he had to vacate the premises when it was over. Watson also took the offensive players to the Bahamas for on-field work and team bonding, accumulating a lot of camaraderie chips.
“I think you can go back to the spring and summer,” Stefanski said. “We spent a lot of time together, Deshaun spent a lot of time together with his teammates. I think we mentioned it at the time, I still believe those were banked reps, so to speak. So it’s something to where Deshaun spent a lot of time with his teammates. I think they’ve all enjoyed having him back and being a part of the team and I think they’re excited for him in this next step.”
Watson’s teammates, who’ve loved working with Jacoby Brissett, can’t help but notice how amazing he’s looked in practice.
“I know he’s ready,” rookie cornerback Martin Emerson Jr. said. “I’m excited for him. He threw a fade on me it was like—I can’t really explain it. It was like an overhead, back shoulder fade that only the receiver could catch. It was like out of bounds and a receiver had throw both his arms over his shoulder to catch the ball. And I had no chance to make that play. So I’m excited for him to come back. That was a great throw.”
He acknowledged it will be a lift for the whole team.
“I feel like Deshaun is very explosive,” he said. “I feel like we’ll have a lot more explosive plays.”
Watson’s return has the 4-7 team believing it can make a playoff run in the final six games, even though their chances are only 4.8%, according to ESPN’s Football Power Index. They’ll likely have to win them all to have a chance, but a ‘why not us’ mentality prevails.
“What Martin’s saying is definitely honest,” said Donovan Peoples-Jones. “I’ve seen it. I’ve seen some of the things that he can do and it’s amazing so I’m definitely excited to play with him and excited to continue to keep winning, keep our win streak up.”
Stefanski acknowledged that he’ll have to develop his own chemistry with Watson as the playcaller, learning what he likes to run and and the nuances of his game. Brissett was very vocal about what he liked and didn’t like, and Watson will undoubtedly be the same way. But it could take time.
“You’re right that the relationship is important,” Stefanski said. “To me, it’s also important to the play-caller to the quarterback room. It’s really a group effort in there when you’re talking about all the players, talk about (offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt and quarterbacks coach Drew Petzing). It’s a collective effort when it comes to play calling and the offensive staff when you get to game day.
“But that quarterback room is where a lot of things get talked through and evaluated and we end up navigating where we’re going to go with the game, so that’s important. With Deshaun, and again, we spent a lot of time together, so he was here all spring, all summer, been in the back of the building. I met with him this morning. So we’ll continue to do that. That’s what you do during the week. You spend extra time with the quarterback and the quarterback room and we’ll just stick to our process.”
It should help ease the transition tremendously that Brissett and Watson have developed a close bond over the past few months. Watson was 100% on board with Brissett as his backup, and the bonds formed quickly.
“This is a unique situation,” Stefanski said. “With these two guys involved, with these two parties, you have guys that respect each other, that really work hard together. That quarterback room is a team. So I think I’ve seen support from Deshaun and Jacoby over the last five weeks that Deshaun has been back.
“It just becomes now Jacoby supporting Deshaun. And I think Jacoby’s gonna help us win this week. He’s gonna help get Deshaun ready, he’s gonna help get our defense ready, he’s gonna provide leadership to this team and that’s just what he does.”
With Watson running the offense, Stefanski will open up the passing game and dial up more explosive plays in the red zone and end zone. He’ll also call more designed runs and more run-pass options. He talked to some of Watson’s previous coaches in the offseason, and has worked hard to tailor the offense to his strengths.
“‘We’ll see’ is probably the short answer,” Stefanski said of the changes with Brissett. “What we’ll always do is try to maximize the talents of our players so there are things that you certainly will do with Deshaun. There were things that Jacoby was really good at. We just want to always be thinking about your players and doing what they do best. Ultimately, it’s our job to look at our players who we have and what are the things that we want to do to maximize their talents.”
I truly believe the only reason the suspension was 11 games was because of this.. The suspension was always going to be timed with the houston game, if it would have been week 7, then the 6 games would have been kept imo. Just more proof the NFL cares nothing for anything really other than $$
This is a public service announcement. The medical staff decides whether or not the player is healthy enough to play. They overrule both what the player and coach wants. Sheesh! I thought everyone knew that by now????
Wrong, the medical staff clears the player to play - not to decide whether the player plays. The HC always makes the determination on who actually plays. There are healthy scratches every week in the NFL, last minute decisions on injury recovery, and performance decisions. Let's make this truthful public service announcement, "The HC decides who plays and doesn't play as long as it is not overruling the medical professionals." After a medical clearance there is one and only one decision maker on who plays and that's the HC, PERIOD!
He said healthy enough.
It isn't that hard to understand.
Are you Vers bodyguard or something? There's more to the post than what was just posted in the one above. Like the doctors saying he was healthy enough to play. They are not the decision makers on whether he should play or not - or are they? Maybe Vers is going by the post that Milk Man article posted. If so, then what the hell is Stefanski qualifications for being HC if he's not the decision maker? So, my question to you Peen, who is the actual decision maker on who starts or not? If it is indeed Stefanski as your answer should be then the question is who is the person responsible for removing a player when he's not performing up to expectations? Those answers are the real subject of this beef and has nothing to do with anything other than who is the decision maker and who is responsible if that decision is wrong. Last year Stefanski trotted out Mayfield each and every week knowing that he was injured (multiple injuries) and more importantly knew he was not performing up to the level he needed to be performing at for the team. So, that leaves two questions, if Stefanski was the decision maker and continued to play a QB unable to perform at the level needed, where is the accountability and 2. if he is not the decision maker then what is he doing as HC of the Cleveland Browns and who is really managing that team?
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I think there was tension between the two. Baker called out Stefanski after the Baltimore and Pittsburgh games. I also think that Baker blaming the injury for his play wore on those who knew what the doctors were saying about the injury. To this day, people are blaming Stefanski for playing Baker. The drama gets old after a while.
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
To clarify. I don't claim to be neutral about Baker. I can't stand the dude. I think he is a bad qb. I think he is immature. I think he's a fake. Those are not neutral stances. And I could care less if his fan club doesn't like it.
Originally Posted by Milk Man Donovan wasn't really bagging on Newsome per se, it was more about the sense on how they carry themselves on and off the field. It was more so, you carry yourself around like a superstar, but what have you truly done on the field. He wasn't burying Newsome just describing some of the entitlement issues he notices. Hopefully, that clarifies a bit.
One issue raised by Browns sideline reporter, Je'Rod Cherry and WKNR host (he admittedly said this was more speculation on his part, than anything concrete), was how much control Stefanski truly had on who plays and who does not. Questioned whether or not Stefanski had complete and total autonomy over who plays, hence the lack of benching certain players. Again, speculation on his part, but if something like happens to be the case, not good.
It'll all come out in the wash over as the rest of the season plays out.
Watch this play a couple of times. Watch the defense, especially the LBers, sprint to stop Hunt. Then, watch what Jacoby does after handing the ball off. Look at all that room on the field side of the field. Imagine if a team is in a odd coverage [examples, Cover 1, 3, or 5] and we send the two receivers deep. One on a go route and the other on a deep crossing or post pattern. The defenders have to turn their back to the qb and trail the WRs. What will Watson do in that situation? He will run free for 18 yards or so. If the corners and/or safety are worried about Watson running, who will cover the WR who the original defender abandons?
Yeah, the offense should be about to bust wide open with explosive plays if Stefanski takes full advantage of Watson's talent. I can't wait.
I am just speculating, but I think we will see only part of the full Watson offense this year. Putting in RPOs and running some Pistol this year to take advantage of Watson's dual threat abilities. Next year, we will see the full offense and it should be unbelievably exciting.
I read a breakdown by Burns right after the trade that utilized videos. The guy really knows football and he was excited about what a good fit Stefanski's offense is for Watson. Guys like Cosell have said that his offense is so QB friendly. It should be really fun. I do expect some growing pains this year.
I agree 100%. Watson's the real deal. We have him under contract for years, so I'm fine with being patient and playing the long game. This year's lost, so let's give him time to return to his old form over these final weeks. Still, I expect flashes of his abilities this year that none of our previous QBs could dream of doing on their best days.
Yeah it’s on the HC for playing him hurt. But you know how players like to hide the extent of their injuries just to play. Baker could have communicated that to the HC. You know, so the HC can make a better decision on who to start.
So it's your contention that Stefanski watches all the practices and can't see how the injury is impacting his players performance? Keep trying to blame Baker for Stefanski continuing to start a QB who wasn't able to perform all you like. You must have no idea how bad that makes Stefanski look. You do realize they have this thing called game film which the coaches are supposed to study, right? Good Lord man.
This is a public service announcement. The medical staff decides whether or not the player is healthy enough to play. They overrule both what the player and coach wants. Sheesh! I thought everyone knew that by now????
They do not set the starting roster. They do not study ther players in practice. They do not study game film to see how an injury is impacting a players performance. The HC sets the starting roster not the medical staff. Some of these excuses for Stefanski are ridiculous. First a poster claims it was Bakers duty to take on the HC's responsibility and now you claim it's the medical staffs responsibility. No wonder you accept a pervert as your new QB. You've grown to expect zero accountability from anyone anymore.
The point is......if the player is healthy enough to play, why would the coach not play him?
Because while he is healthy enough to play injuries are hampering his performance to a level where he can not play to a good level. He isn't so injured he can't play but is most certainly hampered by the injury.
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The only reason is because the dude sucks.
No, I explained the reason above.
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That's been proven to be true, but can you imagine the uproar from The Fabulous Baker Boys if we would have benched Baker after the medical team cleared him? LMAO......they are still crying about us moving on from him to this day.
You have a very vivid imagination. Many of us were calling for him to be benched at the time because it was obvious to see the injuries were hampering his play and we were calling Stefanski out for starting him. Nobody is crying about moving on from Baker. It's who we moved on to. Start acting like you have at least some grasp of the truth instead of being the one who really has the agenda while pointing fingers at everyone else. You sound like a petulant child.
I trust the years of evidence he's already put on tape with Clemson and Houston more than the 5 attempts (2 dropped) in a pre-season game. I expect rust and accept the results that'll bring. It's part of the return process. But, even with rust, I expect he'll soon be an upgrade at the position. He very well might immediately be an upgrade, we just can't predict how much rust there is yet.
I truly believe the only reason the suspension was 11 games was because of this.. The suspension was always going to be timed with the houston game, if it would have been week 7, then the 6 games would have been kept imo. Just more proof the NFL cares nothing for anything really other than $$
There's no business like show business! And Buzbee loves a good show.
From an article in The Athletic today....
On Sunday, Watson will return to Houston to make his first NFL start since Jan. 3, 2021.
Watson is used to hostile environments and will likely be expecting a less-than-warm welcome from fans from his former team. But he’s never had to play a game in front of his accusers — until now.
Buzbee will be there, “bells and whistles on,” he said, and he’s invited all 25 women he’s represented in cases against Watson.
“I will be there to welcome Deshaun back to Houston,” Buzbee said.
He knows his clients each have their own feelings about going to the game. Several have responded that they aren’t interested in attending. But Buzbee said the women who plan to be there in the suite — around 10 have told him they will come — will send a clear message to Watson:
“You think you put us behind you, but we are still here.”
Regarding Watson.......there is no doubt that there are going to be tons of stories about him that have nothing to do w/football. I hope we can continue to keep the off the field crap in the Tailgate forum and post Pure Football takes, tweets, videos, stories in this forum. Mixing both in here will lead to chaos. I believe Ref 3 feels the same way.
Here is a football take of what the Browns offense might look like w/Watson. It's from Jake Burns. The article was written in July and some of the videos are missing, but you can click on the link and read all the text and see a couple of graphic aids.
Cleveland Browns Year 3 Offense Evolution: Pistol Formation[/b]
ByJAKE BURNS Jul 12, 12:44 PM
Consistency leads to many great things for an NFL franchise. From the front office to coaching staff down to the roster, the more familiarity those in a franchise have, the better the odds for success become. Now, as we all know, impatience often limits the consistency a franchise needs to find long-term success. The Cleveland Browns have been a beacon of inconsistency largely attributed to impatience over the years -- especially since returning in 1999.
It is rare to see a Browns head coach, play-caller, and coordinators all return for a third year, but that is what we will get in 2022 for the first time since the 1991-1993 teams coached by, you guessed it, Bill Belichick. As well as that little-known defensive coordinator named Nick Saban. If you rewind to those early 90's teams, the success was not nearly as quickly achieved as the regime here under Stefanski. Belichick won just 20 games total in his first three seasons -- Kevin Stefanski has nearly accomplished that in just two.
So, we seek consistency. The Browns seem to have it in place on both sides of the ball right now and while there is never a day promised in the NFL beyond the one you are currently occupying, it is tough to see this group not getting a few more considering the bevy of offseason moves. Chief among them is the move for Deshaun Watson and with the improved quarterback play is likely to come to an evolving scheme from what we know through two years.
Stefanski is a wide zone system coach from the Gary Kubiak tree. They pair that wide zone base with a west coast passing scheme that thrives on play-action pairing to their zone and gap run schemes and sprinkling in some delightful screen game to running backs and tight ends. The system is formulaic at times and relies on the spacing created laterally to unlock the field horizontally. However, with Watson as the new signal-caller in Cleveland, there is a series to be made here on tweaks and changes I think will come with a quarterback skill-set as unique as Waston brings to the franchise.
Let's dig in on the first part of what will look different: pistol formation.
This is a public service announcement. The medical staff decides whether or not the player is healthy enough to play. They overrule both what the player and coach wants. Sheesh! I thought everyone knew that by now????
Wrong, the medical staff clears the player to play - not to decide whether the player plays. The HC always makes the determination on who actually plays. There are healthy scratches every week in the NFL, last minute decisions on injury recovery, and performance decisions. Let's make this truthful public service announcement, "The HC decides who plays and doesn't play as long as it is not overruling the medical professionals." After a medical clearance there is one and only one decision maker on who plays and that's the HC, PERIOD!
He said healthy enough.
It isn't that hard to understand.
Do you remember when reading comprehension was a thing? ... Yeah, me neither.
JMHO, the Head Coach is HC for as long as the billionaire owner wants him to be. If the billionaire says - a Browns example- play Johnny Manziel, even if he doesn't know the playbook/ might be high....the coach plays Johnny. I believe anyone can quit whenever they want- free country, but "normally" HC plays who he wants/ EXCEPT when the buzzer rings from owner and he/she dictates who plays. Go Browns!!!
Not much rust, comments from team players indicate DW has still got IT. Personally, I can't wait to see bootleg roll outs off the stretch plays running Chubb right. DW completely different athlete than JB. Easy throws and runs. I just hope DW remembers how to slide well....GO Browns!!!
Here we go! I agree with Vers where he said we'll likely see some of Watson's potential but don't think we open the full play book this year...
I expect him to be rusty and a little off this week being back in Houston... still expect to win (House is terrible).... but would like for these 6 games for him to get his feet under him and build towards next year...
I think we can end the year with 8-9 wins... we'll see...
Regarding Watson.......there is no doubt that there are going to be tons of stories about him that have nothing to do w/football. I hope we can continue to keep the off the field crap in the Tailgate forum and post Pure Football takes, tweets, videos, stories in this forum. Mixing both in here will lead to chaos. I believe Ref 3 feels the same way.
You giving that advice is like Watson himself giving advice about massage therapists.
No. Just pointing out he said what he said and you trying to paint it as something else.
The medical team clears a player from a health standpoint. Only simpletons don't understand that the coach makes the decision on who plays and who doesn't.
No. Just pointing out he said what he said and you trying to paint it as something else.
The medical team clears a player from a health standpoint. Only simpletons don't understand that the coach makes the decision on who plays and who doesn't.
Just to clear up some grey area here that I believe you may have missed from previous posts. It would appear that it is painting something else except when put in the proper context as posted over these months. The dispute is and always has been that Stefanski was responsible for playing the guy each and every week even though he knew he was injured, affected his play, and not playing well. Stefanski and Stefanski alone should be the decision maker in that process of who takes the field or who doesn't. The counter argument has been and continues to be the medical staff cleared him to play so he plays. The medical staff maintained that playing would not cause any additional damage, so they released him to play. The medical staff however has zero idea whether the injury is going to affect his level of play. What the player says should have zero effect on the decision process if you have been watching the practices and game films. The disagreement was and always has been that Stefanski assumes responsibility for a players continued poor play if he continues to trot them out there week after week knowing they have an injury that is affecting his play. The other side will want you to believe that since the medical staff cleared him and the player wanted to play, all accountability is thus removed from the HC as to his continued poor performance. Simpleton might be a strong word to use but the posts are proof in the pudding.
No. Just pointing out he said what he said and you trying to paint it as something else.
The medical team clears a player from a health standpoint. Only simpletons don't understand that the coach makes the decision on who plays and who doesn't.
Just to clear up some grey area here that I believe you may have missed from previous posts. It would appear that it is painting something else except when put in the proper context as posted over these months. The dispute is and always has been that Stefanski was responsible for playing the guy each and every week even though he knew he was injured, affected his play, and not playing well. Stefanski and Stefanski alone should be the decision maker in that process of who takes the field or who doesn't. The counter argument has been and continues to be the medical staff cleared him to play so he plays. The medical staff maintained that playing would not cause any additional damage, so they released him to play. The medical staff however has zero idea whether the injury is going to affect his level of play. What the player says should have zero effect on the decision process if you have been watching the practices and game films. The disagreement was and always has been that Stefanski assumes responsibility for a players continued poor play if he continues to trot them out there week after week knowing they have an injury that is affecting his play. The other side will want you to believe that since the medical staff cleared him and the player wanted to play, all accountability is thus removed from the HC as to his continued poor performance. Simpleton might be a strong word to use but the posts are proof in the pudding.
I believe this to be a full and accurate accounting of what is at the root of the discussion.
As for talking about BM on a Watson thread - that happens all the time everywhere. And despite being resident Board Police - said poster is as guilty as any poster of making asinine comments, personal attacks and derailing threads.
Michelle - yes, you are sadly correct. Although, to be fair that's a poor choice of phrase on my part and it shouldn't be considered "sadly". What Watson was accused of and found guilty of is disgusting and shining a light on it so that others who are subjected to sexual abuse and manipulation feel empowered to speak out. It is far more widespread that reported and hopefully that will change over time.
I believe this to be a full and accurate accounting of what is at the root of the discussion.
Full and accurate? It's a bunch of mumbo jumbo.
Accurate is the medical staff clears a player to play. The coach then decides to play that player or not.
Whether the coach should play the player or not is an entirely different matter. One could muddle the conversation further when Baker came out and said that he was the only one who would determine if he played or not, but again, those questions aren't germane to the matter.
If you and others want to talk about if Baker should have played or not, then we can talk about that.
Maybe we should have normal conversations around here rather than acting like this is a congressional hearing. Geesh
I think Pits post was more about the history of the discussion on this board than the mechanics of what the medical team staff says, does or approve. Take the comment I made in the spirit in which it was intended instead of getting so touchy.
The process is the process. I think everyone agrees. And then the ultimate decision maker once a player is cleared by the medical staff is the HC. That seems pretty clear too, what pit referred to was the fact that some posters still claimed it was not a HC decision, or the HC doesn't own the decision. Edit, or maybe more accurately whether Stefanskii specifically is responsible for trotting out and injured Baker who is clearly impacted by his injury.
I think Pits post was more about the history of the discussion on this board than the mechanics of what the medical team staff says, does or approve. Take the comment I made in the spirit in which it was intended instead of getting so touchy.
The process is the process. I think everyone agrees. And then the ultimate decision maker once a player is cleared by the medical staff is the HC. That seems pretty clear too, what pit referred to was the fact that some posters still claimed it was not a HC decision, or the HC doesn't own the decision. Edit, or maybe more accurately whether Stefanskii specifically is responsible for trotting out and injured Baker who is clearly impacted by his injury.
Exactly,
The most evasive word in the English language when referring to the Browns HC/FO, accountability. Last year's poor results were because of the QB's poor play. This year it's a porous Woods defense and Priefer's special teams. Question is, who's in line to be the next scapegoat?
Browns Mailbag: How will the offense adjust with Deshaun Watson?
Breaking down what changes could be coming to the offense now that Watson is the starting QB Dec 01, 2022 at 03:59 PM Employee Headshots on June 24, 2021 Anthony Poisal Staff Writer
A new era for the Browns began this week with QB Deshaun Watson officially added to the active roster and set to start Sunday in Houston.
We're kicking off this week's Mailbag breaking down one of the biggest questions the Browns face with Watson back, and it's the first of three Qs we're answering as we prepare for a big game against the Texans.
How will the Browns adjust their offense to the addition of Deshaun Watson? - Charlie B., Springfield, Ohio
Kevin Stefanski was asked this exact question Monday, so we'll kick this answer off with what he said:
"'We will see' is probably the short answer. What we will always do is try to maximize the talents of our players, so there are things that you certainly will do with Deshaun. There were things that Jacoby (Brissett) was really good at. We just want to always be thinking about your players and doing what they do best. Ultimately, it's our job to look at our players who we have and what are the things that we want to do to maximize their talents."
Stefanski obviously wasn't going to break down the Xs and Os of what will change in his answer, but we got a decent sense of what the Browns could do with Watson when he worked with the first team for most of training camp and offseason workouts. Watson should help the Browns expand their playbook because of his mobility, which likely means some run-pass option and read option plays, QB rollouts and perhaps some designed QB runs are ahead — basically, any type of play that allows Watson to run with the ball and possibly deceive the defense.
We've known since his first season as the Browns' head coach that Stefanski loves to be creative, and having a shifty QB like Watson should allow him to tap even more into that side of the playbook. The threat of RBs Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt will help the Browns amplify Watson's skills even more and give defenses a very difficult time preparing for them each week.
Stacking "the box," the middle of the level of the defense, with extra players should become less common, which means it'll be harder to stop Chubb and Hunt. When Chubb was asked Wednesday if he thinks Watson's presence will prevent teams from stuffing the box, he replied, "I hope so."
"I guess we won't know until Sunday," he said, "but I guess they'll have to come up with a better plan for whatever we do."
It might not be reasonable to expect the Browns to immediately boast a different-looking offense Sunday in Houston. Remember: Watson hasn't started an NFL game in nearly 700 days, and Stefanski acknowledged Wednesday that "there's plenty of tape out there the Texans already have" on Watson because they're his former team, after all.
Changes, however, will certainly take place with the offense.
"Having him out on the field will bring an element to our offense that is different," Stefanski said, "but how different, I think, remains to be seen."
As a few of us have tried to discuss, we don't know how much better the O will be w/Watson this year due to the rust factor and having to change qbs late in the season. However, I think there should be two noticeable advantages.
1. Teams probably won't be stacking the box like they have for multiple years now. That should open things up a bit for our RBs.
2. Teams will probably be changing their coverages. I don't think we will have to face too much man coverage or even odd-numbered zone coverages such as 3 and 5. My theory is that teams won't want to have their corners trailing our WRs due to Watson's running ability.
I could be wrong, but those are two advantages that I expect to see this year. Next year, it should be a totally different animal when we have time to implement our full offense.
I want very few, if any RPO's- he's our 230 million dollar player.....fewest hits the better. I want the bootleg roll outs and handoffs- and throwing the accurate long ball. I hope he's practiced his sliding- get 7 on the roll out then slide or get out of bounds. Go Browns!!! ps not betting in Florida, I'd put a hundred on us beating them by more than 7.....GO Browns!!!!
Some stats Record against Carolina third string QB 1 win1 loss Contracts 400 million 4wins. Has not been a QB in a playoff game sense signing extension Career verses Lamar 0 wins2 losses Playoff QB rating 85 Wins playoff in 5years 1 Players signed to Play with leshaun 1 clowney Defense rating sense leshaun signed 31
Interesting article, long. Too long to copy and paste but I would recommend the read. I would also recommend skipping to about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way down
I never thought Watson would play so poorly...a QBR of 28.6
That performance against a team that had just 1 win.
Now the Browns have a real problem...still alive for playoff spot knowing their best QB is Brissett. Do those in charge (Haslam, FO, GM and Stafanski)...sacrifice the possibility of making the playoffs just so you can get Watson more snaps..?
Stefanski already sacrificed the playoffs with the job he's done.
It makes zero sense to start Brissett. Why are dumb questions like this even a discussion? People want to give no gametime to a guy who hasn't played in 2 years?
Rish...you do realize the Browns are still alive for the playoffs..?
It might be an uncomfortable question for some to answer, but the boys in charge have a problem on their hands...sacrifice the possibility of making the playoffs just so Watson gets more snaps. Had Watson played better, there wouldn't be an issue...but clearly he is not ready to play up to NFL standards.
Rish...you do realize the Browns are still alive for the playoffs..?
It might be an uncomfortable question for some to answer, but the boys in charge have a problem on their hands...sacrifice the possibility of making the playoffs just so Watson gets more snaps. Had Watson played better, there wouldn't be an issue...but clearly he is not ready to play up to NFL standards.
First game back in 700 days... let's give him some time... had a few flashes but clearly he's got a ton of rust...
and you give him time because his ceiling is miles higher than Jacoby's....
People are actually calling for Jacoby Brissett to start over a healthy Deshaun Watson? Good God, that's embarrassing. Watson is this team's franchise QB whether some fans like it or not. This was his first game in 2 years and we all knew he was going to be rusty. Even though we all knew he'd be rusty, some fans lose their minds and demand for him to be benched in favor of Brissett because he actually WAS rusty? Anybody calling for Brissett to start has to eliminate the off-field behavior and also look more than 5 seconds down the road.
Brissett
Watson
With basically 4 full years under both of their belts, Brissett's ceiling is lower than Watson's floor. But, because Watson played poorly in his first game back after 2 years, the elite franchise QB that the organization has gone ALL in on should be benched for the vastly inferior journeyman with the prayer the team wins out after only winning 4 games with him at QB this season? Watson is our QB and there in NO quarterback controversy. Watson is 100% the starter and Brissett is 100% the backup. The QB train is moving ahead at full steam with Watson, so Brissett lovers will either have to quickly jump on or be left behind at the station. We now have to give Watson time to adjust and return to his well-established form. Calls for Watson to be benched are laughably embarrassing. Come on, guys.
Wonder how many in the locker room will shut it down for the season if owner and management play the rest of the season as a pre-season game for Watson...could you blame a player for thinking of himself and his career.
Team is #1...something ownership has not learned yet..!
If Watson performs poorly next week, but we somehow manage a win, and other things happen to keep us in the hunt, then you MUST consider this year, IMO. But no matter how this year plays out, Watson is the guy going forward. And we all know yesterday wasn't really his best or even close. He's rusty, period.
I expect him to be much improved this week. He will have had two weeks with the ones then. This past few weeks, he has played QB of the PS. That didn't help yesterday.
Did anyone really expect DW to light it up yesterday? I sure as heck didn't. It's going to take some time and that's what these next 5 games will do; help him get back to game speed. Now if we had won those 2-3 games we should have and were right in the thick of the playoff chase then a decision would have to be made but we're not. Let's just hope for the best these next 5 games and then hope our weak areas on the team are addressed aggressively this off season so we can be legit contenders next year.
You're just talking crazy mac. Brissett is never going to lead this team to a SB victory. He's just not. The only shot of that happening is with watson at QB. The FO knows it, the coaching staff knows it and the players know it. Here's what you would accomplish by starting Brissett. An outside chance at best that the Browns squeak into the playoffs. And that's a very remote chance. But he's certainly not a QB that's going to get you much further. So what does that really accomplish?
OR, you have watson. Most every objective poster knew watson was going to be rusty as hell. That was a given. Maybe not this rusty but still. Will watson get back to being just as good as he was before? Nobody know the answer to that for sure but there's little doubt he will be better than Brissett and if he does get back to his old self on the field the Browns have a shot at a SB victory. So he's going to have to go through shaking the rust off. He's going to have to learn actual in game timing with his WR's and learn to work with his team mates on the field of play. And don't even start to claim that gets done in practice. Nothing resembles the speed of the game except for the game.
So you proposal would be to play Brissett this season and next season shake the rust off of watson? So that hurts the chances of the Browns making the playoffs and winning a SB next year just so you can try some desperate attempt to make the playoffs this year? That's a very short sighted approach to things.
Another 3 games or so then the honeymoon is over and it’s time to deliver some $230m performances. After Christmas I don’t want to listen to any more excuses from our HC.
As usual, I think some people are misinterpreting Myles' comments.
What do you think the interpretation should be?
I think he is frustrated by losing. They had just got blown out by Miami. I think he is saying that everyone needs to do a better job because the team has talent. I do NOT think he is saying that the coaching staff and/or FO is/are to blame exclusively.
I’ve complained about some cute play calls KS has made that have backfired with ugly results, and I think sometimes he tries to be too ‘creative’ when the simpler approach would be better.
but I think he’s a smart coach. When we start winning more often any doubts the players might have about him -if they exist at all - will evaporate. Winning cures all. The opinion of fans - all of us - aren’t very important.
As usual, I think some people are misinterpreting Myles' comments.
What do you think the interpretation should be?
I think he is frustrated by losing. They had just got blown out by Miami. I think he is saying that everyone needs to do a better job because the team has talent. I do NOT think he is saying that the coaching staff and/or FO is/are to blame exclusively.
I would agree with nthe frustrated part completely.
I would agree that he is saying everybody needs to do better. But I do think that he includes the coaching staff in that.
Yes, I agree that he is including the coaching staff. I said "everyone," and I was including the coaching staff in the "everyone." I probably should have been more clear. I just don't think he is placing all the blame on the coaching staff and/or the FO, depending upon the particular poster's agenda.
Just a thought - While there would be no question as to which QB has the credentials to be classified as being elite, maybe Garrett's thought process concerning his comments considering then, last year, and certainly now; might be construed as a call-out questioning if the HC/FO are actually making the decisions that give the Browns the best opportunity to win? After winning the last 2-games, the Browns playoff chances have been enhanced, no question. Does getting the rust off Watson only to have him then sit for 8-months before he sees any real action again appear to be wasting the players talents and the slim opportunity the Browns have in 2022? I get the thought process of Watson being the 230M man and the future, but isn't Garrett the 125M man, Chubb the 36.6M man, Ward the 100.5M man, Bitonio the 69M man, and Teller the 53.9M man who also should be taken into consideration when making decisions on what players to play that give the Browns the "BEST" opportunity to win right now? Maybe the Super Bowl, so to say, isn't actually in the cards but stranger things have happened. However, a playoff appearance after last year and this year's poor start would be a statement on the quality of players on the Browns outside of QB and a vindication of the Browns HC/FO commitment to winning every game.
It seems important that the consensus best DE in the NFL is questioning the importance of winning by fellow players and the HC/FO. The other elephant in the room is how many of the other players are actually a part of the silent majority having those thoughts. I'd suspect that if the Browns go 6-0 under Watson and make the playoffs then the HC/FO will look like geniuses but if they go 1-5, 2-4, or even 3-3, there will be questions all off season about dumping the season to get the rust off a player going on an 8-month vacation and the player frustration level will be 10-fold. Just my opinion.
pit...lord man, you ASSUME so much...you obviously don't know what I'm about...
First, regardless of what some might claim, the Browns are still alive in the hunt for a playoff birth and as long as they keep winning, they remain in contention for a playoffs birth until the day they are eliminated.
Never give up..never ever give up..! A tribute to V week, but also appropriate when discussing the present situation of the Browns.
I do know what it takes to win ... especially when we are talking about a team sport...and the last time I looked, football is still a team sport and not an individual sport.
We assume that the "entire Browns franchise" is instep with the players and the goals those players established. If the goal is to win, it takes the "entire team", beginning with Haslam, management, coaches and players, all with the same goals, pulling in the same direction, doing all they can to win each week.
Are the Haslam Browns about doing all they can to achieve "those team goals"..? I'm talking about those goals that the players established for themselves at the very beginning of the 2022 season. Those goals that the players have sacrificed a part of themselves to achieve this entire season.
IMO, the Browns owners, management and some on the coaching staff do not have the same goal as the players and the fact that the Browns are still alive for a playoff birth is a tribute to THE PLAYERS..!
It's impossible to claim the Browns are all about "winning" when the goals of ownership and management are not in line with the players. I think most will agree, to give your team the best chance to win, a coach plays his best players. Any team that refuses to play their best players, is simply lying to the media and fans if they claim that winning is their top priority.
Many have questioned the franchise, especially Stafanski when we see Nick Chubb standing on the sidelines in critical situations, when we need a first down or a TD. You play those players who give your team the best chance to win...and anything short of the max effort from ownership, management and coaches is unacceptable your best players if you intend to win.
That leads us to the Browns and the fact that this team has endured so much during this season only to watch games that should have been won, turn into unbelievable losses. Yet, the team stuck together and remained focused on what the team's goal was...trying to win enough to make the playoffs.
It would appear you interpret a players quotes intentions to be either positive or negative depending on who that player is far more than what that player says. For some players I've never heard you bring up the fact they were frustrated as a part of your reasoning. Until it wasn't a certain player.
Jesus man. You think the current team with about an 8% chance of even making the playoffs should risk the readiness of next season which if watson has these six games under his belt could very well compete for a SB. You somehow think that a team with no chance to win a SB this season should risk next season when they very well may have.
So no matter how you slice it, your scenario makes no sense. It seems your real issue is you somehow think it would be better to try and win in a season that's already lost than invest in winning next year when it may actually matter. Let me explain it to you this way. They paid watson a 230 mil. guaranteed contract. If he doesn't play now to shake off the rust he will be where he is now if not worse at the beginning of next season. So according to your logic, they shouldn't start him next year either. Because you know, with all that rust he won't be ready to play next year either, right? Come on man.
The combined record of the teams we beat is 24-35. Not exactly giving confidence to the idea of beating Miami, Buffalo or KC in the playoffs, or Dallas, Philly, San Fran in a SB.
Finish out the year with Watson so we are ready to go next season. Don't want to spend the first 5 weeks next season knocking off the rust.
Jesus man. You think the current team with about an 8% chance of even making the playoffs should risk the readiness of next season which if watson has these six games under his belt could very well compete for a SB. You somehow think that a team with no chance to win a SB this season should risk next season when they very well may have.
So no matter how you slice it, your scenario makes no sense. It seems your real issue is you somehow think it would be better to try and win in a season that's already lost than invest in winning next year when it may actually matter. Let me explain it to you this way. They paid watson a 230 mil. guaranteed contract. If he doesn't play now to shake off the rust he will be where he is now if not worse at the beginning of next season. So according to your logic, they shouldn't start him next year either. Because you know, with all that rust he won't be ready to play next year either, right? Come on man.
The part that baffles me is that where is the guarantee that after playing 6-games and then being off 7-8 additional months that the rust won't still be there? I'm not trying to cause an argument; I just would like to know the basis for the opinion.
1. Watson did not play for 700 days. Being rusty would be expected but by all beliefs, he never lost the skill set. What makes anyone think that after playing 6-games that the rust will suddenly be gone and then - gulp - stay gone for the next 7-8 months as he's doing nothing game wise to stay sharp?
2. Being the new way the preseason is set, getting up to speed or game ready has been a complaint by many QB's because of the lack of real game snaps. Are we to assume that Watson will not have those growing pains as other QB's have pointed out because he played these 6-games?
3. Counting the off season, Watson will have actual live game experience over a 6-week period (35 days) and no on the field live snaps for what would be 914 days the last 2 plus years though not consecutive. Am I to understand that the consensus is that these 6-weeks of live play will eliminate any issues of rust at the beginning of 2023?
4. Finally, according to FloridaFan: "The combined record of the teams we beat is 24-35. Not exactly giving confidence to the idea of beating Miami, Buffalo or KC in the playoffs, or Dallas, Philly, San Fran in a SB." That exact same thought process was used last year with the Bengals and they proved the nay sayers wrong. With 5-games to go with still a possibility of making the playoffs and not playing the players that give you the best opportunity to win right now because you are looking forward to the next season is sending an awful message to the other 52 players on the roster that have been busting their butts for the last 12-13- weeks. JMHO, the Browns are opening the door for a whole lot of off-season issues by bailing on 2022 because no matter of much everyone wants to assume a 2023 SB run, there's a lot of things out of the Browns control that could derail that quickly. That is why you need to win when you can because there's zero guarantees going forward. The players absolutely know this - the HC/FO should listen because ditching any opportunity for the post season will cause irreparable harm to the team nucleus.
Jesus man. You think the current team with about an 8% chance of even making the playoffs should risk the readiness of next season which if watson has these six games under his belt could very well compete for a SB. You somehow think that a team with no chance to win a SB this season should risk next season when they very well may have.
pit...so you believe there is nothing wrong with risking the only chance the other 52 men on the Browns roster have at making the playoffs so that 1 guy can get more "practice reps" in...this after Watson played much worse than anyone could have imagined, earning himself a QBR of 28.5, going against a 1 win team. Kind of sounds like some are in a "panic".
Nothing like having the owner, management and coaching staff QUIT ON the other 52 men on the roster...that sure paints the Browns franchise as top shelf outfit, putting 1 players need for more "practice time" ahead of the sacrifices of the rest of his teammates, who are attempting to keep the teams playoff hopes alive.
Right now, Brissett is head and shoulders better than Watson and Brissett gives the Browns the best chance to remain in the playoff hunt. If the Browns lose with Brissett giving his teammates his best effort, then hand the ball to Watson and tell him to get to work. That would be the best decision the Browns could be make, putting winning first and showing respect for the efforts of the entire team over the need for Watson getting more practice time.
Also, this idea that if Watson doesn't play every snap of the remaining games...he won't be able to lead the Browns to the Super Bowl win next year...you are stuck somewhere along the "yellow brick road" my friend.
...how much of what Watson learns during the last 5 games of this season do you believe he is going to retain once the 2022 season is over..?
Chances are pretty good that Stefanski is going to have a brand new playbook for Watson to learn when the 2023 seasons begins.
Most football coaches..the good ones that is...believe in promoting team needs over individual needs...by a large margin. Don't you wonder why that is..?
I think those in charge of this team have to make the best decision in terms of the future of this team. Being short sighted as you seem to be would be the costliest decision moving forward. The "team needs" as you put it is this team establishing a franchise QB. That's exactly what they're making their top priority. There will be no "new playbook". Only an expanded playbook based on watson's abilities. You keep using the same arguments that would only regress the Browns ability to compete next year.
Jesus man. You think the current team with about an 8% chance of even making the playoffs should risk the readiness of next season which if watson has these six games under his belt could very well compete for a SB. You somehow think that a team with no chance to win a SB this season should risk next season when they very well may have.
pit...so you believe there is nothing wrong with risking the only chance the other 52 men on the Browns roster have at making the playoffs so that 1 guy can get more "practice reps" in...this after Watson played much worse than anyone could have imagined, earning himself a QBR of 28.5, going against a 1 win team. Kind of sounds like some are in a "panic".
Nothing like having the owner, management and coaching staff QUIT ON the other 52 men on the roster...that sure paints the Browns franchise as top shelf outfit, putting 1 players need for more "practice time" ahead of the sacrifices of the rest of his teammates, who are attempting to keep the teams playoff hopes alive.
Right now, Brissett is head and shoulders better than Watson and Brissett gives the Browns the best chance to remain in the playoff hunt. If the Browns lose with Brissett giving his teammates his best effort, then hand the ball to Watson and tell him to get to work. That would be the best decision the Browns could be make, putting winning first and showing respect for the efforts of the entire team over the need for Watson getting more practice time.
Also, this idea that if Watson doesn't play every snap of the remaining games...he won't be able to lead the Browns to the Super Bowl win next year...you are stuck somewhere along the "yellow brick road" my friend.
...how much of what Watson learns during the last 5 games of this season do you believe he is going to retain once the 2022 season is over..?
Chances are pretty good that Stefanski is going to have a brand new playbook for Watson to learn when the 2023 seasons begins.
Most football coaches..the good ones that is...believe in promoting team needs over individual needs...by a large margin. Don't you wonder why that is..?
I don't fully disagree, but to be fair, the other 52/53 players and coaches put themselves in the position of 4-7 before Watson came back. We could very easily be 6-5 or 7-4, but we also got blown out by a NE team that isn't good and lost close games to teams we should have beaten. We got beat by 22 coming off out bye week.
The combined record of the teams we beat is 24-35. Not exactly giving confidence to the idea of beating Miami, Buffalo or KC in the playoffs, or Dallas, Philly, San Fran in a SB.
Finish out the year with Watson so we are ready to go next season. Don't want to spend the first 5 weeks next season knocking off the rust.
BEAT?!?!? Hell, I just want to see them get to a SB.
The part that baffles me is that where is the guarantee that after playing 6-games and then being off 7-8 additional months that the rust won't still be there? I'm not trying to cause an argument; I just would like to know the basis for the opinion.
There is no guarantee. Every player however faces the off season. They don't face the obstacle of not playing for 700 days.
Quote
1. Watson did not play for 700 days. Being rusty would be expected but by all beliefs, he never lost the skill set. What makes anyone think that after playing 6-games that the rust will suddenly be gone and then - gulp - stay gone for the next 7-8 months as he's doing nothing game wise to stay sharp?
I repeat, every player faces off seasons. Players do not face being off the field for 700 days. Those are two completely different things. As I said before, all you can do is give him some actual game speed work this year to help him become familiar in the O and with his WR's.
I'm not going to address your other points because it all actually boils down to one thing. The Browns went all in with watson with that contract. They are fully committed for the next four seasons. That's the reality whether one considers that a good thing or not. Doing everything they can to familiarize him with the speed of the game and familiarize him with this O and a connection to his WR's is an investment into next season. At this juncture there's really no other legitimate choice.
Agreed, and part of that future is the attitude of the other 52 players on the team. IMHO, the HC/FO are sending a horrible message to the team that Watson is more important than winning now. Especially when it's a fact that cannot be disputed that in less than 5 weeks from now, Watson will be on vacation without any ability to sharpen his skills in real game situations for 7-8 months or roughly 214 days. I'll go out on a limb and voice the opinion that whatever rust he's able to knock off these last 5-weeks will be back by August.
The announcers kept harping about "he's only been allowed to practice for 2 weeks.", as if he hasn't been able to work out, and throw the ball.
'Rust' is NOT throwing the ball into the grass 3 feet in front of the receiver, and that happened a lot on Sunday.
'Rust' could explain his int...........didn't see the d back. But 'rust' is NOT not being able to throw a ball. IF that's rust, dude was taking his time off way too leisurely.
I think a parallel can be drawn, to the performance of Tiger Woods in tournamentz following his very public scandal involving many women, and Watson's very public scandal involving many women and Watson'z performance on the field, and if that's any indication, then DW won't be playing very well in the near future. frown.
The whole "start Brisset" argument is silly. If we've learned one thing at all this season, it is that QB was not, is not, and hasn't been the problem. Changing QB isn't the miracle fix that will get the Browns to the Playoffs.
Getting that defense to actually, I don't know, PLAY DEFENSE is what was, is, and has always been needed. People are acting like they just did something magical with the Texans, but they're literally the worst team in football. It is what a defense is supposed to do. The defensive scores are anomalies; this defense does not do that in the normal course of things; those were freak occurrences. Y'all had best not start thinking you're gonna see that every week. Same for that punt return.... seriously, when was the last one? Five, six years ago?? Was Cribbs the last one to run one back?
Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson looked pretty rusty in his first regular season game in 700 days. Does he give Cleveland the best chance to win right now?
Head coach Kevin Stefanski says Watson is still the team's quarterback, but we may be seeing quarterback Jacoby Brissett back on the field.
Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot #Browns Kevin Stefanski said 'we'll see' about giving a package of plays to Jacoby Brissett but noted he was "a huge, huge help" during the game. Said he did exactly what he was supposed to do on his one snap 12:44 PM · Dec 5, 2022
Watson finished the game with 12 completions on 22 attempts for 131 yards and an interception. The Browns got the victory over his former team, but he accounted for zero of the Browns' 27 points in the Week 13 matchup.
Watson's return from his 11-game suspension for violating the NFL’s personal conduct policy began with fans booing him before the offense's first snap.
It may be Watson is a little distracted by all of the outside noise. If time is what he needs, Brissett has proven he can step in when needed.
Teammates have shown lots of respect for the veteran quarterback. "Man, I love Jacoby, I think Jacoby's a hell of a teammate. One of the best I've ever had," Browns DE Jadeveon Clowney told reporters.
Camryn Justice @camijustice · Follow #Browns Jadeveon Clowney on Jacoby Brissett: "Man I love Jacoby, I think Jacoby's a hell of a teammate. One of the best teammates I've ever had."
Time will tell how the Browns will use the two quarterbacks, but there's no bad blood between the two.
"Jacoby was a big help on the sideline talking to me," Watson said after the game. "He said that's part of the game. That's knocking the rust off."
Let me ask you a question, do you really believe the players think it's better to put off watson's development until next year for a chance to win a couple of more games this year? I mean really? Or do you think the players would rather invest these games into the possibility of winning a SB next year with a franchise QB at the helm? I think your logic on this topic is faulty.
Dudes 5 wins 3 years Nobody picked this guy up in a 20 qb league. There better be alot people sweating. Best year we may half to let a 85 rating db walk for Nothing A all pro center plus a all pro tackle this guy better be in the Mahomes range or heads are going to roll. They let Mayfield walk over a 85 rating coming off 26 td with 8 interceptions plus a playoff rating north Of where my massage
Dudes 5 wins 3 years Nobody picked this guy up in a 20 qb league. There better be alot people sweating. Best year we may half to let a 85 rating db walk for Nothing A all pro center plus a all pro tackle this guy better be in the Mahomes range or heads are going to roll. They let Mayfield walk over a 85 rating coming off 26 td with 8 interceptions plus a playoff rating north Of where my massage
Let me ask you a question, do you really believe the players think it's better to put off watson's development until next year for a chance to win a couple of more games this year? I mean really? Or do you think the players would rather invest these games into the possibility of winning a SB next year with a franchise QB at the helm? I think your logic on this topic is faulty.
I guess it can only be explained by the comments of Garrett. I would also expect that sooner or later we all will hear some more about this decision. The idea of building to 2023 for a single player doesn't bode well for guys like Clowney, Pocic, Hubbard, Harrison, Brissett, Bryan, Hunt, Greedy Williams, Takitaki, Winovich, Froholdt, D'Ernest Johnson, Brown, Walker and Conklin all of which are FA's in 2023. Add in the Garrett, Chubb, Botinio, Teller, and Cooper from the team, it would give the appearance that they will be suffering through another wasted season in their limited career where the poor QB decision in 2021 appears to be rearing its ugly head again in 2022. If Watson continues to struggle like he did in his first game, don't be surprised by the backlash.
This week, the level of competition upticks by 10-fold over last week. I hope that Watson shows improvement and does well but after last week, I'm not beaming with confidence.
Browns may use Jacoby Brissett packages with Deshaun Watson's early struggles
By Aaron Becker | Last updated 12/6/22 link
Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson looked pretty rusty in his first regular season game in 700 days. Does he give Cleveland the best chance to win right now?
Head coach Kevin Stefanski says Watson is still the team's quarterback, but we may be seeing quarterback Jacoby Brissett back on the field.
Kinda sounds as if this subject about the franchise doing the right thing for all involved is a subject of discussion within the franchise...given Stefanski's comments.
Maybe some within the franchise feel as I do, that it would be wrong to simply dismiss the effort given by Watson's teammates, all season long, to keep this franchise alive for a potential playoff birth, only to watch some within the franchise simply flush those efforts and sacrifices down the toilet just to provide Watson with some more practice reps to knock the rust off.
I would enjoy seeing Watson improve his performance to the point where he actually helps his teammates achieve the team goals they established for themselves when this season started. But, let's not make the remainder of the season about just one man...make it about the team.
So you think a team that went 4-7 with Brissett as QB and were on the outer fringe of any form of playoff contention are now "wasting this season"? Hmmmm... I'd say that's a pretty big stretch of one's imagination.
If you wish to waste your money sending me a watson jersey, by all means do so. Your comprehension must be extremely low. I've actually been promoting watson remain the starter against those arguing that the team should still be starting Brissett. That by starting watson now it will be in the best interest of not only his development from all that time off but in the best interest of the team moving forward. But it's the kind of thing many have come to expect from you. You failed again Jr.
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