What would a 5th year option for Jedrick Wills cost if picked up?
Jacob Roach February 8, 2023 8:58 am ET
This offseason is an important one for Cleveland Browns left tackle Jedrick Wills and his future with the team. The team must decide if they are going to pick up his fifth-year option that comes with a decent-sized price tag. If the team picks it up it will cost them $14.175 million for the 2024 season with the team.
It has been an up-and-down few years for Wills but it is hard to deny the talent he has at the position. There are times that his play is borderline teaching tape but his consistency just isn’t there. At times he appears to have given up on plays and not played through the whistle every play.
The price tag is probably too high for a player you are still uncertain of three years into his career, especially with the money already invested in the line. But the flashes that Wills has shown with his clear talent may lead the team to still believe he can be a very good player and ultimately they will probably pick the option up.
Wills Total Offense PFF grade for 2022 was 62.9 which was 59th of the 84 tackles ranked. Even more disturbing though is he was ranked 31st among LT's ranked and some of those ahead of him were backups filling in for injured starters. Add to the equation that he was graded 66.1 in 2021 and 61.5 in 2020 and you have a player that has not shown significant improvement nor performance for being the 1st round #10 pick overall in 2020.
That said, I completely believe that Berry will exercise the 5th year option on the highest player he has selected through the draft, deserving or not. However, IJMHO, continuing on with the weakest member of the o-line playing at the most important position on the o-line (LT who protects the QB's blind side) is a recipe for disaster.
Wills is a serviceable Left Tackle and replacing him will be far too expensive. The Browns should sign his 5th year option. Then maybe renegotiate an add a year or two while reducing the cap hit annually. If he is unwilling, then after 5th year find a replacement.
That's ok if that's what you want but keep in mind that the 5th year option will be about 15M to 16M making him the highest paid OL on the team and just like our former QB - that 5th year option is guaranteed. So, if he has another bad year with no future starting LT in the system today - what then? Keep in mind, he was the 31st ranked LT in 2022.
steve reported one ranking out of many. He conveniently forgot to mention pass and run block rate and other stats. He's the same guy who did not mention that we won 12 games in 2020. He did not mention that we won a playoff game against our arch-rivals that year. The only thing he said about that year was that we finished 3rd in the division. The preceding all came in one of his rants about why we need to fire Stefanski.
Bard, old friend...........sometimes there is more to the story than some are providing. The key is knowing who to trust and who to be skeptical of.
In my opinion, I don't think Conklin has the feet to play LT.
I do think that Bitonio looked really good there in 2021 when he was forced to play there. Guards are a lot easier to find than tackles.
As far as Willso goes........he has some really good moments and some bad moments, just like the article said. I do think he has been inconsistent and needs to improve. I do not think he is trash. I have no idea what the Browns will do w/him, but I am not a fan of creating holes.
That's ok if that's what you want but keep in mind that the 5th year option will be about 15M to 16M making him the highest paid OL on the team and just like our former QB - that 5th year option is guaranteed. So, if he has another bad year with no future starting LT in the system today - what then? Keep in mind, he was the 31st ranked LT in 2022.
Originally Posted by FATE
Yeah? I'm sure you have a much better answer -- let's hear it?
Because it is an option year we are fortunate to have the input of Callahan.
He can look at Wills and see where he might be in the years to come. I think it is important to remember Wills is 23.
He came to the Browns never having played LT. They looked at him as potential because of his skills.
Twenty-three is still really young. Some OL guys can play a long time.
In the end I trust Callahan.
Great post Bone. As Vers stated, this was a thought that had not crossed my mind. We trust Callahan enough to know that if he didn't think the guy had potential, he would let the team know.
Sorry I can't meet your timeline. First and foremost, no one said Wills was trash. IMHO, it makes no sense to give a player a guaranteed payday making him the highest paid member on the Browns o-line when he is nowhere close to being the best. You can split hairs and try to say he has a better pass blocking grade than a run blocking grade but the fact still remains (since the Browns run more than pass) that Wills has struggled overall at the position. Now to answer your question,,,,,
This is year 4 and the smart move is to not exercise the 5th year option on Wills and let him play on a prove it year. The thought process being that unless he improves significantly, making him the highest paid o-lineman on the team is embarrassing to those linemen that are playing at a pro bowl level. If Wills does improve, you sign him to a new contract that would be more in line with what he has produced his first 4-years. It will be easier to control the cap that way too since the Browns won't be locked into a guaranteed contract for 2024. In the meantime, the Browns must consider the potential need either through the draft or free agency. The most logical choice would be the draft this year.
Here's my thoughts on the draft. WR - the Browns drafted DPJ 3-years ago, Schwartz 2-years ago, and Bell and Woods last year. That's 4 WR's drafted in the last 3 years. Drafting another WR in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round is not going to upgrade the WR room. This position needs a veteran presence.
DT, the Browns have drafted a DT each of the last 3 years. Elliott, Togiai, and Winfrey. The results have not been good, but Togiai and Winfrey are still pretty green. IMHO, this is the position where the Browns must make a big FA splash. I suspect the Browns go big FA for a DT here.
DE, I think Berry planned ahead for Clowney being gone after 2022. The Browns drafted 2 DE's in 2022 who both saw action during the season. Wright and Thomas will be expected to step it up this year with one of them probably starting. The Browns might pick up a FA on the lower end, but I suspect we might see another later round pick at the DE spot.
OL, last year the Browns drafted Deaton to be the backup center behind Harris. Deaton spent the year on IR as did Harris. Pocic is a FA and Harris and Deaton are under contract. It's highly unlikely the Browns would carry 3 centers on the active roster. I hope I'm wrong, but Pocic is looking like a cap casualty leaving Harris and Deaton as the Browns centers. Since the Browns drafted Wills in 2020, the Browns have only drafted 2 offensive linemen, Deaton a center in 2022 and Hudson a OT in 2021. Hudson is currently listed as the backup for Conklin and Wills. I expect the Browns to draft a LT probably in the 3rd round as a fall back if Wills continues to regress.
IMHO, the Browns should draft the best player available at the DT or DE position with their 2nd round pick Their 3rd round pick should be an offensive left tackle. All the remaining picks should be defensive players mostly comprising of the LB and S positions.
I don't buy the "embarrassing to those linemen that are playing at a pro bowl level"; other than that, a good explanation and reasonable point of view.
I'm not sure about finding your next starting LT in the 3rd, especially since our 3rd is really a 4th.
A quick follow up - players negotiate contracts with their teams every year. If you're an elite player, like the Browns guards, your negotiations focus on being paid like you're the best. I disagree with your premise that the other o-lineman wouldn't feel slighted if Wills was the highest paid. Natural human nature says that they would indeed scoff at such an issue.
Just a final note on Wills. If the Browns do indeed exercise the 5th year option, that puts a totally different spin on his contract negotiations in 2024/25. If he remains "serviceable" (which I disagree with), his contract negotiations go to a different level after playing through his option year at a guaranteed level than if he's negotiated with after a prove it year. After 4 so called serviceable years, the Browns could hold the line of 12M-14M per year on a new contract because of his lack of elite play. However, if the Browns go down the 5th year option road, any person thinking they would get Wills to resign a contract paying him less than that option year is living in a dreamland. The negotiations then would start with a salary way north of the 15M-16M he just received during his 5th year option year. I don't believe the Browns will be in that position to be spending an extra 5M or more per season for a serviceable LT.
Browns land a familiar face, just earlier, in a 2022 NFL Draft redo
Cory Kinnan February 8, 2023 8:13 pm ET
We have officially hit the offseason, where there are no games to cover so the coverage gets a bit more creative. And that is just what ESPN did when they decided to re-draft the 2022 NFL Draft just a season later. In this scenario, the Cleveland Browns did not trade out of the 44th overall pick, but still landed the same familiar face in cornerback Martin Emerson Jr.
ESPN’s Jake Trotter had this to say about the selection:
“Emerson had a terrific rookie season for the Browns, winning a starting job out of camp opposite Denzel Ward. Cleveland would be happy to grab him again here, a round earlier. Emerson’s size and range allowed him to hang with some of the top wideouts in the league. With Ward, Emerson and 2021 first-round pick Greg Newsome, Cleveland would boast a foundational cornerback trio that is young, versatile and prolific.”
The Browns are really loaded at cornerback. Ward, Newsome, and Emerson are very good players. I think Greedy Williams will be a good corner in this league, but it probably won't be here. AJ Green is also a pretty good player. In a conference w/great QBs, it's important to have such good corners.
I'll never really understand why Bitonio wasn't moved to LT the minute Joe Thomas' elbow blew up. I don't recollect that he refused to do it, just that he wanted ample notice before making the switch. He's the best LT we've had since JT.
I think it has something to do with him being an All-Pro left guard.
That and there are/were the contract issues. He's being/was being paid guard money, not LT money. Bitonio's agent would not have let him play LT for guard money. The Browns would have had to give him a completely new contract for playing a position he had not played before in the NFL.
Also, the Browns will pick up Jedrick Wills 5th year option.
I think it has something to do with him being an All-Pro left guard.
We have about 9 guys who could play LG much better than Wills plays LT. I think getting better at LT is more important than the drop off from Bitonio to the best of those < guys that can play LG. It would also be quite the shot in the arm for the salary cap. Yes, Bitonio would have to get a pay raise, but that would keep us from paying Wills stupid money to be a below average, disinterested football player and instead go with a bargain contract at LG.
Just a continuing thought...however, if Bitonio was at all hesitant, don't do/push it.
We probably won't sign Pocic with the contracts we already have all across the rest of the O line. Bitonio to LT kills two birds with one stone.
If Newsome was adamant about not playing the slot, could see him as a guy Berry would consider trading for a draft pick if the Browns are set on Ward and Emerson at corner.
I'm not positive, but I think Newsome deleted the "NO" answer later on. I think this is mostly about money. Slot corners make way less money than outside corners. No one who can play on the outside wants that label. I do think it could be an issue because I'm not sure who else on the roster really has the requisite skills to be a really good slot corner.
Greg Newsome II was lock-down in man coverage for the Browns in 2022
Jacob Roach February 9, 2023 6:56 pm ET
In 2022, second-year cornerback Greg Newsome II had a tough task as he transitioned to playing as the slot corner. There were some growing pains here and there but by the end of the season, he looked good. However, there was one thing that remained constant all season long and that’s his ability to lock down in man coverage.
Cleveland has a good problem on their hand with three talented corners on the roster. Newsome seems to not want to play in the slot and is clearly a better outside corner. It is clear that in man coverage is where Newsome thrives and with Jim Schwartz’s scheme he has a chance to really shine.
The team could end up moving one of their young players at the position but it is clear there isn’t anything wrong with Greg Newsome. Some think he had a down year and was trending in the wrong direction but the tape shows he has plenty of talent.
I'll never really understand why Bitonio wasn't moved to LT the minute Joe Thomas' elbow blew up. I don't recollect that he refused to do it, just that he wanted ample notice before making the switch. He's the best LT we've had since JT.
I don't think he likes it or wants to play there. Because I'm sure, he would be an upgrade.
Newsome has not deleted the tweet. And you’re correct, it is definitely about money when it comes to signing a new deal from the perspective of getting paid as a slot vs outside corner. Can’t say I blame him. If the Browns picked up his 5th year option, he and Emerson would have contracts expiring the same year. Doubt the Browns pay them both.
What is the opinion on why it was Newsome to the slot and not Ward or Emerson? Was it because Ward/Emerson were the two best outside CBs? Or was it because the combination at all (3) spots was better with Newsome in the slot? (Even if Newsome was a top 2 outside CB.)
Skill set. Slot receivers have a different route trees than guys who play outside. Their routes tend to be across the middle and are more about moves than downfield speed. I don't think Emerson has the hips to guard slot receivers all over the field. I think Newsome is better as an outside corner than Emerson, but he is much more able to stay w/crafty slot receivers than Emerson is. Ward has elite outside corner skills.
Skill set. Slot receivers have a different route trees than guys who play outside. Their routes tend to be across the middle and are more about moves than downfield speed. I don't think Emerson has the hips to guard slot receivers all over the field. I think Newsome is better as an outside corner than Emerson, but he is much more able to stay w/crafty slot receivers than Emerson is. Ward has elite outside corner skills.
Thanks for that. I wondered initially if Ward would be a better slot guy than the others...but Newsome apparently played the slot quite well...so the decision worked (even if Newsome would rather be outside.)
Do you have a thought on Emerson being a FS? I've read that elsewhere but don't have the knowledge to breakdown what Schwartz wants from his FS. Or even if he plays the more traditional FS/SS.
I've thought about Emerson at Free Safety. He seems to have the physical traits. He's a pretty big guy that can tackle. I just haven't seen enough or even know enough about his measurables, ability to diagnose plays, make reads, etc to say he could make that move. It's interesting to think about, though.
I think losing Howard is actually good news. He came across as clueless.
Chargers hire Browns passing game coordinator and defensive backs coach Jeff Howard as new linebackers coach
Cory Kinnan February 10, 2023 8:35 am ET
Turnover is starting on the defensive staff for the Cleveland Browns, and that may just be a good thing. While new defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz stated the defensive staff was head coach Kevin Stefanski’s to handle, getting fresh perspective in those rooms and with the young players is needed. And now the Browns will have to hire a new passing game coordinator and defensive backs coach as the Los Angeles Chargers have hired away Jeff Howard.
He will take over the reins as the new linebackers coach of the Chargers after three seasons in Cleveland. Hopefully, this is just the beginning of the dominos that will fall as the Browns need a complete rebrand of their defensive staff under Schwartz.
I think it has something to do with him being an All-Pro left guard.
We have about 9 guys who could play LG much better than Wills plays LT. I think getting better at LT is more important than the drop off from Bitonio to the best of those < guys that can play LG. It would also be quite the shot in the arm for the salary cap. Yes, Bitonio would have to get a pay raise, but that would keep us from paying Wills stupid money to be a below average, disinterested football player and instead go with a bargain contract at LG.
Just a continuing thought...however, if Bitonio was at all hesitant, don't do/push it.
We probably won't sign Pocic with the contracts we already have all across the rest of the O line. Bitonio to LT kills two birds with one stone.
Memphis and Milk answered the question straight to the point. Plus plenty of other responses with he's young/Callahan and etc.
Regarding your response, (Guys, please chime in if I am incorrect with my information. O-line definitely isn't my speciality) you are taking the best or one of the best guards in football and moving him outside. This move weakens not one position, but the whole interior of the line. You are probably going to ask why.
The answer: Pocic had a great year, I am not taking that away from him, but also keep in mind he had two All-Pros on each side of him (Teller/Bitonio). Those three solidified the interior of line (well, besides when Poc/Tell weren't injured). A big "if" from your last sentence, Pocic doesn't re-sign or is let go, now you have a possible weakened Center position. Having two of best on each side of him will help. Next thing, getting to the next level, do you want an average or one of the best guards in football getting to the second level and taking out those LBs or DBs for our RBs? Another reason: We have two excellent guards that can pull each direction. I would like to say this benefits our run game in so many ways. This is why I am saying it weakens the whole interior line. Having one of the best gives our run game so many different options on sweeps, misdirections and etc. Compared to having a limited guard.
Edit: Also, just like the Browns do, teams do move their best pass rusher to the inside at certain times or downs to bring in a better passing attack. Having that solid middle is easier for the QB to step up in the pocket.
In lamens terms, you don't take the strongest part of a dam and weaken it to fix a leak/crack. Why weaken the whole structure? You keep that part stout so you can focus on fixing, provide help or monitoring the one weak area.
Plenty of logic there...but it's almost the exact same thing as what we did at CB this past year. Newsome is a top 2 outside CB on this team...but the unit is better because he can play the slot better than anyone else and the #3 outside guy is quite good in his own right - I'll let others argue whether the 3rd best outside CB is Ward or Emerson.
I also surmised that moving Bitonio - and NOT paying Wills stupid money - "might" free up some OL cap to allow the signing of Pocic. So...
Bitonio...fill-in-the-blank-cheap-contract-guy...Pocic...is better than...Wills...Bitonio...cheap center guy.
I think Wills is awful and that the 5th year money is stupid for a guy so...awful.
This is a good article considering the time of the year. I like the part that includes JOK.
Browns would be wise to retain LB coach Jason Tarver
Cory Kinnan February 15, 2023 11:21 am ET
The Cleveland Browns are experiencing a good bit of turnover in their defensive coaching staff. After the hiring of Jim Schwartz as the new defensive coordinator last month, two staffers have since departed for other gigs as Jeff Howard has taken the linebackers coaching job with the Los Angeles Chargers and Chris Kiffin is taking over the linebacker coaching job with the Houston Texans. As they look to replace their openings, openings that were more than likely created intentionally as the Browns granted these guys the opportunity to interview elsewhere while under contract, Schwartz would be wise to retain linebackers coach Jason Tarver.
Jason Tarver was put in an impossible situation and the group still produced
When was the last time a single position group on a single roster had five different starters suffer season-ending injuries? And when was the last time that unit then inserted undrafted free agents, late-round picks, and practice squad players into the lineup as replacements with little dropoff?
That is exactly what happened to the Browns this season as all of Anthony Walker Jr., Jacob Phillips, Sione Takitaki, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, and Jordan Kunaszyk all ended up on Injured Reserve in 2022. Yet Tarver’s unit saw production from day-three pick Tony Fields II and practice squad players Reggie Ragland and Jermaine Carter Jr.
Even before their injuries as well, Walker Jr. and Takitaki were playing high-level football for the Browns in contract years. This is not a normal amount of turnover, nor a normal amount of output from unsung heroes. The man behind the curtain in Tarver deserves a load of credit for instilling a “next man up” mentality at the second level of the Cleveland defense.
His resume speaks for itself
Unlike Howard and Kiffin, Tarver came to the Browns with a depth of experience to his name already, and that has been on display in the way he has handled his business with the linebackers. He is entering his 20th year in the NFL, has spent three seasons as a defensive coordinator, and even spent 13 years with the same team.
There is a reason teams keep this guy around. And there is a reason why we have not heard rumors about him interviewing elsewhere. Turnover for the sake of turnover is not a good thing. Continuity for the sake of continuity is not a good thing. However, continuity with guys who have continuously earned their keep every step of the way is the sweet spot.
Tarver is not afraid to challenge his best players
Needed in Cleveland, Tarver is not afraid to hold his best players accountable and challenge them to continue to work on their craft. This is just what he did with explosive linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah at the end of the 2022 season. He started by explaining his grading process:
“The linebackers will tell you that I am one of if not the hardest grader because we want it that way. Everything is either a check, which means you did your job; a plus means you did something great but those are hard to get and you have to make a play; and then it is a minus. If you are a little bit off in your gap, that is a minus. Now you can turn minuses into checks and pluses. You can be aligned a little [off], and do something great, that works.”
He went on to praise Owusu-Koramoah’s development from a technical perspective, but ended by challenging the linebacker as he enters his third season in the NFL:
“In the offseason this year, it is going to be building his body to handle the 17 weeks. I do like where he went by football progression and what he did the last week. Now, it is going to be a process of really mastering the offseason.”
This is the kind of accountability the Browns need to keep in their locker room and on their staff.
Final thoughts on Jim Schwartz, the Browns, and Tarver
The good news is that there have been no other interview rumors surrounding Tarver the way there were with Howard and Kiffin. This likely means that the Browns told the two who departed to look for other gigs while giving Tarver a good amount of assurance as Jim Schwartz takes over.
However, until a press release officially solidifies Tarver onto Schwartz’s staff in 2023, there are reasons for speculation. Tarver is the only defensive positional coach with a long list of experience, the only one who has called a defense at the NFL level, and the only one who got production out of his unit a year ago.
There is a line of thinking that Bienemy might have to go somewhere else because teams question how responsible he is for KC's offensive success w/Andy Reid on board. It might behoove to go somewhere like Washington where they have a defensive minded HC and EB would have full control of the offense to prove himself. Also, there are rumors out there that claim EB does not interview well.
There is a line of thinking that Bienemy might have to go somewhere else because teams question how responsible he is for KC's offensive success w/Andy Reid on board. It might behoove to go somewhere like Washington where they have a defensive minded HC and EB would have full control of the offense to prove himself. Also, there are rumors out there that claim EB does not interview well.
I saw an article and posted it here somewhere that points out that Bienemy may be seen more as installing Reid's offense rather than being responsible for KC's offense. And that is the stumbling block for him getting a HC gig. lamp however may be correct that he's waiting in the wings to take over after Reid retires but if that were true I see no reason he would be interviewing for the Commanders OC job.
Cleveland Browns Unrestricted free agents: Deion Jones (LB), Kareem Hunt (RB), Jacoby Brissett (QB), Taven Bryan (DT), Chris Hubbard (LT), Greedy Williams (CB), Ronnie Harrison (S), D'Earnest Johnson (RB), Stephen Weatherly (EDGE), Ethan Pocic (C), Jesse James (TE), Reggie Ragland (LB), Jermaine Carter Jr. (LB), Pharaoh Brown (TE), Jordan Kunaszyk (LB), Tae Davis (LB), Chase Winovich (LB), Sione Takitaki (LB), Hjalte Froholdt (RG), Jadeveon Clowney (EDGE), Anthony Walker Jr. (LB) Projected cap space: -$13,534,606 Team needs: DT, WR, OT
The Browns could use an upgrade at wide receiver, but will have to clear some space this offseason in order to do so. A consistent No. 2 option will help out Deshaun Watson, whose hefty contract significantly kicks in this year. They'll need help on the defensive line as well.
Cleveland Browns Lead The League In Expensive Talent ByJACK DUFFIN 19 hours ago
In 2022 the Cleveland Browns lead the entire NFL with the most players being paid over $10m a year. We are using average per year on contracts rather than one-year cap hits which are incredibly misleading and easily manipulated. Numbers as always from Over The Cap. It is worth looking at what this level of investment means and if it hampers them in free agency. Who Are They?
Here is a list of the Cleveland Browns in 2022 who were on more than $10m a year.
Deshaun Watson - $46m Myles Garrett - $25m Denzel Ward - $20.1m Amari Cooper - $20m Joel Bitonio - $16m Wyatt Teller - $14.2m Jack Conklin - $14m David Njoku - $13.7m Nick Chubb - $12.2m John Johnson - $11.25m Baker Mayfield - $10.5m (this is what the Browns paid for 2022 to trade him) Jadeveon Clowney - $10m
How Are The Top Teams Built?
Here is a look at the final 8 teams in the NFL playoffs this year and you can see the vast majority are all the same with 7 or 8 players on $10m plus. The Eagles have many more but they also have a quarterback that is being paid $1,643,230 on the salary cap. Since the Cleveland Browns now have a $46m a year quarterback they will need to limit some of their spending to balance this out. (Charts in link)
Conclusion
The first and most obvious conclusion is that what the Cleveland Browns are currently spending on their offense isn't sustainable long term. This is before we get into any debate over kicking the can in contracts and restructuring deals. They will need to balance this out, so those fans demanding that Andrew Berry must trade for a $15m a year wide receiver or he has failed this offseason are likely going to be left unhappy. Obviously, there are always ways to do this, and it could be by letting some players go the other way in trades as Teller and Chubb are the obvious two.
On the defensive side of the ball with Clowney and likely Johnson departing they can open up some money to do different things, I believe the smarter approach would be to spread this money around and add multiple talented players rather than focusing it all on one stud defensive tackle and spending very little elsewhere.
You don't want to ever get to the stage where the Saints were last year when they had nothing invested at quarterback, lost several key pieces to free agency, and had their big free agent moves were Marcus Maye & Andy Dalton. There is a fine line between aggression and stupidity which Andrew Berry is right on the cusp of, these will be tough decisions to make as they transition this roster in the bid to build a consistent competitor that is up against the Chiefs, Bills, and Bengals each year.
That's a ridiculous article. They use averages to inflate and conflate numbers under the pretense of seeing if it hampers them in free agency when it isn't an average, but the specific year costs that affect free agency. Furthermore, they're looking at the previous year to project going forward. The author is drawing conclusions out of thin air and then using a contrived argument to prop it up.
They're looking at a stack of potatoes to see if they can grow a strawberry in a small planter.
This is what happens when people are given too many data points; they get lost looking at things that have no bearing on each other at all.
Make that one less defensive tackle for the Browns to target in free agency
Jacob Roach February 22, 2023 7:15 am ET
With defensive tackle as the team’s biggest need, this offseason fans have clamored for Washington’s Daron Payne. Payne would be a massive upgrade as one of the league’s most talented young players at the position. However, just as many thought reports are saying that the Commanders will likely place their franchise tag on Payne before he can enter free agency.
There would still be a chance the Browns could trade for a tagged Daron Payne but with the cap number coming with the tag and the likely wanted compensation it likely won’t happen. There are however many other players available that would make the defensive line better but the top player at the position may be off the market before even hitting it.
The whole DL is in question as far as how they will rebuild the DL room.
Schwartz will have input. I do not see this as a one year fix. I think there will be some players that will serve as short term adds and drafted players as guys to develop.
I am hoping we can be have a competent DL. I am not expecting miracles.
I'd like to see us take a look at DT David Onyemata who is due to be a free agent. Was drafted by the Saints in the 4th rnd in 2016 and has been a full time starter for them since 2019. He had a bit of a down year last year as far as PFF Grades but he still put up 5 sacks and 35 pressures total.
The Cleveland Browns have not seen results the past two seasons under head coach Kevin Stefanski and general manager Andrew Berry. Coming into the 2023 season, expect Stefanski to be near the top of the odds to be the first head coach fired in Vegas. However, the actions of the organization and, more importantly, the actions of those choosing to be in Berea indicate this regime is not a lame-duck regime.
Bill Callahan, widely renowned as one of the best offensive line coaches in all of football, rejected an interview to become the offensive coordinator of the New York Jets. He instead opted to sign an extension to stay in Cleveland with the Browns.
Jim Schwartz, who spent last season as a senior defensive analyst with the Tennessee Titans, could have waited out the defensive coordinator process to feel out other opportunities. He could have had his pick of the litter and instead opted to take the job in Cleveland before the five teams who were looking for head coaches even hired new leaders.
Bubba Ventrone, a well-respected special teams coordinator and leading voice within the organization of the Indianapolis Colts, packed his bags and willingly came to Cleveland despite the ability to keep the job under Shane Steichen.
These are not lame-duck moves. These are not lame-duck hires. This is not the same as Hue Jackson hiring an often scoffed-at defensive coordinator in Gregg Williams, who is now coaching in the XFL because he won’t find another NFL job. This isn’t Todd Haley walking into the organization after the Pittsburgh Steelers decided to let him walk after his contract expired.
The moves the Browns are making, and the decisions that high-profile coaches who could easily find jobs elsewhere, are not indicative of a regime on the hot seat.
Do the young players on the roster need to improve to show signs that Berry has not drafted handfuls of non-contributors? Absolutely. Does Berry need to reevaluate his process a bit and take a good look in the mirror? Definitely.
Does Stefanski need to sit down and figure out how to meld his strengths with that of his personnel this offseason? Yes. Do the Browns need to get back in the playoffs for him to feel better about his security? Considering he has just two years left on his contract with no extension, yes he does.
However, if the Browns get back into the playoffs this season, and they have no excuses not to, then expect both Berry and Stefanski to get new contracts with a bit of extra coin on them. This is not a lame-duck regime.
Careers are based on success. If those in charge can't right the ship there will be consequences. Hopefully that won't come to fruition. But posting some opinion piece about them being here after next season without seeing the results of this coming season isn't viable.
Report: Browns to name Ben Bloom defensive line coach
Posted by Josh Alper on February 24, 2023, 7:29 AM EST link
Ben Bloom will reportedly remain on the Browns’ coaching staff after the arrival of defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz, but he will have a new job title.
Albert Breer of SI.com reports that Bloom will be the team’s defensive line coach. He was their run game coordinator the last two seasons and will replace Chris Kiffin, who left to take a job on DeMeco Ryans’ staff in Houston.
Bloom had a stint with the Browns early in his career before moving to the Cowboys in 2011. He held a variety of positions while in Dallas and spent two years as their linebackers coach before leaving after the 2019 season.
The Browns hired Bloom as a senior defensive assistant and he’s now set to make another change in assignment for the 2023 season.
Deshaun Watson: HC Kevin Stefanski a premier play-caller in the NFL
Cory Kinnan February 23, 2023 8:18 pm ET
The offseason is underway, the Cleveland Browns are making big changes to their coaching staff, and head coach Kevin Stefanski and Deshaun Watson are going to figure out how to get the offense back on track in 2023. The quarterback has only glowing things to say about his head coach when he jumped on a podcast with this private quarterbacks coach Quincy Avery today. On the podcast, Watson called his head coach one of the premier play-callers in the league.
This showed as Stefanski got top-10 quarterback play out of Jacoby Brissett, so there is a reason for optimism that he and Watson can get it figured out this offseason.
Good news, another offensive mind can’t hurt. Kevin’s playcalling seems to run feast or famine a little too much for my liking. Kevin worked under him so the familiarity is there. I really like our system as it is well tested and proven. I think we become too predictable, too often especially in the second half of the season. Maybe his opinions and input can help unlock some chunk plays that just have not been there in the passing game.
Musgrave, Bubba, and Schwartz these are some big pulls in one offseason.. No excuses at this point. These guy are usually at the top for any unit they coach. I'm curious to see what Musgrave's role is. He's probably a guy that Stefanski would hand off playcalling to if he did it.
Stefanski, AVP, Musgrave and the new QB coach - who knows how it will jibe, but it seems like we're giving Watson every single opportunity and support to make it work sooner rather than later. I like it.
As falls our ability to score, so falls our ability to score.
Maybe we won't have to have "do or die " discussions about run defense, broken coverages or punt returns if we can put up similar points as the AFCs best.
I agree w/you about how good the hires are. I don't think Stef relinquishes play calling duties and I hope he doesn't. But, that's just me.
I agree, I don't understand how people can't understand that he doesn't want someone else controlling his destiny ... At the same time he doesn't have that safety net for a fall guy either.
I agree w/you about how good the hires are. I don't think Stef relinquishes play calling duties and I hope he doesn't. But, that's just me.
I agree, I don't understand how people can't understand that he doesn't want someone else controlling his destiny ... At the same time he doesn't have that safety net for a fall guy either.
Agree. There is a zero percent chance Stefanski relinquishes play calling duty, nor should he. The reason he was hired was because of his play calling. Aside from the money, Stefanski's offensive design was a reason Watson came to Cleveland.
It's not even about a fall guy at this point. If the Browns do not make this playoffs this year, there are likely wholesale changes to the coaching staff barring crazy extenuating circumstances, i.e., Watson shreds his ACL in week one.
Giving up play calling duty is the low hanging fruit I expect to hear from someone like Tony Grossi.
If anything, I believe Stefanski learned it became necessary surround himself with a more experienced, proven staff.
I dont believe he will either, I was just stating, the only scenario that would happen would be a guy like Bill who is proven to be good and Stefanski has a prior working relationship. Someone he trusts and has same vision. But to Milk's point about watson, i thinit was 100% about the money.. it could have been Mo Carthon still here and watson isn't turning down the largest nfl guaranteed contract in history..lol. To your point about playoffs.. I believe unless we have some catastrophic injury to someone key. If we don't make the playoffs this year, this whole staff is gone, from Berry down. We can't keep waiting around to see if they finally get it. It doesn't work like that anymore.
Stefanski, AVP, Musgrave and the new QB coach - who knows how it will jibe, but it seems like we're giving Watson every single opportunity and support to make it work sooner rather than later. I like it.
AVP's communication with DW is critical to the offense. AVP has been a quarterback and a QB coach. When they are in offensive meetings going over plays and game plans. There is a direct link from qb to OC about the offense. When AVP speaks to DW about qb execution and reads there is no miscommunication. There is only one voice. AVP can spot any type of technique or throwing mechanics that may need some work. Stefanski has been a qb coach.
We got a lot of cooks in the kitchen. Now, do they have the player ingredients? Or the draft capital or trade capital to plug the holes and make upgrades? I'm half excited. I just wish DW had finished playing this season at a high level, and then I could get excited.
Stefanski, AVP, Musgrave and the new QB coach - who knows how it will jibe, but it seems like we're giving Watson every single opportunity and support to make it work sooner rather than later. I like it.
Of all the stats we attempt to analyze this one must improve if the Browns are serious about contending. Just look at where the Super Bowl opponents rank in Red Zone Scoring.
Data shows that Amari Cooper is still a number one wide receiver
Jacob Roach February 27, 2023 10:24 am ET
Wins above replacement is one of the better stats in the NFL to show any individual player’s impact on the team overall. It shows the defense between top players in the position vs those that are just minor contributors. Amari Cooper found himself 12th on the list in 2022 providing 1.43 total wins above replacement for the Cleveland Browns last season.
Fans and media wanted to argue if Cooper was still an elite player and a number one wide receiver when the Browns traded for him last March. These numbers and the tape show that the team made the right move to add Cooper and if Watson returns to form in 2023 the offense will be fun to watch.
Your OPOY, Justin Jefferson, clearly showed how valuable he is to the Vikings as the best WR in the league. pic.twitter.com/lhVl876XUG
Vers thanks for the post. If we can get another WR that can be a legit deep threat and by that I mean not only speed but a good route runner and can catch the ball, we would have a very good WR group with AC, DPJ, Bell and maybe someone else can step up. The weaknesses we have are solvable with the right moves and it could take one draft and one FA period to do it.
Actually what Stefnaski was more known for was his success working with QB's. He made Cousins look like the golden child.
He had only been the OC for the last three games of the 2018 season as the interim OC and named the full time OC for the 2019 season with the Vikings when he was hired by the Browns.
Of all the stats we attempt to analyze this one must improve if the Browns are serious about contending. Just look at where the Super Bowl opponents rank in Red Zone Scoring.
What I’m hearing about latest Browns coaching changes on offense – Terry Pluto
CLEVELAND, Ohio – Scribbles in my Browns notebook:
1. On Sunday, I gave readers an inside look at how the Browns changed defensive and special teams coordinators. As happens with many NFL teams when there are disappointing seasons, the head coach (if he keeps his job) is pushed to make some major changes to his coaching staff.
2. Kevin Stefanski replaced defensive coordinator Joe Woods with Jim Schwartz. Special teams coach Mike Priefer was replaced by Bubba Ventrone. But the Browns now are working on the offense and coaching staff.
3. Bottom line: What they’ve seen from the way Stefanski was handling the head coach/play calling duties showed some problems in the last two seasons. The Browns will never say it, but they had to be disappointed with how Deshaun Watson performed in the final six games when he came off his 11-game suspension.
4. Yes, Watson hadn’t played since his 2020 Pro Bowl season. Yes, it was 700 days between regular season games for him. Yes, he was coming into the season with 2/3rds of the games gone. But he also practiced with the team in mini-camps and training camp. And he played six games, not just one or two.
5. Watson completed 58.2% of his passes – ranking 34th among QBs. His QB rating was 79.1, also 34th. He threw 7 TD passes compared to 5 interceptions. With the exception of the second half of the 24-10 Browns victory in Washington when Watson threw three TD passes, there was very little spark in most games played by Cleveland’s big ticket acquisition at QB.
6. Enter Bill Musgrave, as “senior offensive assistant.” Alex Van Pelt takes over as full time QB coach. Stefanski will keep calling the plays and basically serve as his own offensive coordinator. Musgrave comes in to help find a way to add some juice and sizzle to the offense that was alarmingly bland when Watson took over.
7. A top NFL source told me the Browns view Musgrave “as an experienced and diverse mind when it comes to offense ... he’s a big picture guy, very creative.”
8. Musgrave is 55. He has been an offensive coordinator for 10 seasons in the NFL with five different teams. He was offensive coordinator in Minnesota from 2011-13 when Stefanski was a young coach on the Vikings staff. So they have a previous relationship. Musgrave spent the last three seasons at California-Berkeley as offensive coordinator/QB coach.
9. As the Browns looked at the offense under Watson, they saw lots of missed opportunities. They believe he would be more effective running the ball. They also believed he never could find much rhythm in the passing game, and some no-huddle options could help that. It worked in the past with Watson in Houston.
10. The pressure is on to get it right with Watson. That starts with coaching. The Browns added an experienced defensive coordinator in Schwartz. Now, it’s Musgrave who will be a key part of game planning and finding ways to add more flavor and options to the offense.
11. The Browns decided not to change the head coach. But the emphasis was adding and upgrading the entire coaching staff, where it seemed a lack of experience hurt in some areas. Van Pelt is still valued. They consider him a very good coaching working 1-on-1 with QBs. He developed a good relationship with Watson.
12. Quick Opinion: I like what the Browns have done with their coaching staff. Ventrone and Schwartz have a history of recent success. Musgrave brings experience and hopefully some new ideas to the offense. At least, they didn’t just say, “All Kevin needs is another year with Watson.” No, more than that is required to shape up the QB.
Good read and I'm sure all valid. At least there is much effort being made to improve. Our window of opportunity is now and our FO and ownership definitely sees it. That's why changes have been made.
I actually agree with not only the changes the Browns made at these coaching positions but who they hired to fill them. And yes, from watching all of the moves the Browns have made and influx of investments they have made, they are showing a sense of urgency in winning and winning now. I believe if 2023 does not prove to be a very good season more heads will roll.
I think Pluto is great at writing about basketball. His book about the ABA was awesome. I think he is good at writing about baseball, as well. I just don't read much about baseball anymore. I don't think he has much of a grasp about football, though. I think writing about it came w/his latest job change. Check this comment out.
Quote
Bottom line: What they’ve seen from the way Stefanski was handling the head coach/play calling duties showed some problems in the last two seasons.
I am not sure that is true. It is also short-sighted. He goes on to point out negatives about Watson's play last year and pretty much dismisses some of the possible reasons why Watson played poorly. He did not even factor in the "weather" games that used to be such a huge deal when evaluating our qb. He also completely ignored how well that Jacoby played in Stefanski's offense. He played far, far better than he had previously w/other teams and coaches. He did not mention the top 10 finish in offensive efficiency and that it was ranked 6th overall when JB left the lineup. It was actually ranked higher than that at times this season. He did not mention how much better Baker played w/him than he did before Stefanski got here and how poorly Baker played after leaving Stefanski. I know a little about offensive football, and I think our offense is creative, has a strong identity, runs smoothly when the clock becomes a factor, etc.
We are all entitled to our opinions and I am not asking anyone to agree w/me. But, that is what I think of the article.
This would be an excellent hire if the Browns can pull it off.
Could Dennard Wilson still join the Browns after interviewing for DC?
Cory Kinnan February 27, 2023 10:45 am ET
The Cleveland Browns brought in the current defensive backs coach and passing game coordinator for the Philadelphia Eagles, Dennard Wilson, for an interview when they were searching for a new defensive coordinator. While he did not get the job and the Browns instead hired Jim Schwartz, the door is not shut for him to join the staff in Cleveland.
According to Jared Mueller of Dawgs by Nature, Wilson could still be on the Browns’ radar as they look to replace Jeff Howard as defensive backs coach and passing game coordinator. The Eagles have been interviewing external candidates galore since Jonathan Gannon was hired by the Arizona Cardinals, and this may not be sitting well with Wilson.
If he does not get the defensive coordinator gig with the Eagles, similar to Bubba Ventrone getting passed up for interim head coach in Indianapolis, this could cause Wilson to look elsewhere. And he has a link to Cleveland.
Ian Rapoport Retweeted Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo · The #Browns will release S John Johnson III at the start of the league year on March 15, barring a trade, sources say. Johnson was entering the final year of a three-year contract he signed as a free agent in 2021.
Still young at 27, he’ll have interest once free.
Dumbfounded by this move if accurate. This only saves the Browns $900,000 in cap space and the team will be charged 12.6M against the 2023 cap because of all the prorated bonus they used on Johnson. Why would you cut a guy for a savings of $900,000, get nothing in return, and be left holding the bag for 12.6M?
Many expected Johnson to be traded or cut this offseason, as he's entering the final year of his three-year contract which carries a base salary of $8.75 million in 2023, per Spotrac. If Johnson is released with a June 1 designation, the Browns will save $9.75 million with a dead hit of only $3.75 million, per Cleveland.com.
Many expected Johnson to be traded or cut this offseason, as he's entering the final year of his three-year contract which carries a base salary of $8.75 million in 2023, per Spotrac. If Johnson is released with a June 1 designation, the Browns will save $9.75 million with a dead hit of only $3.75 million, per Cleveland.com.
Correct except the Browns will then take an 8.85M cap hit in 2024 for Johnson. No matter how you cut it, releasing Johnson is going to cost the Browns 12.6M in cap charges due to the kicking of the can down the road whether they pay it all this year or split it with a post June 1 cut date.
This would be an excellent hire if the Browns can pull it off.
Could Dennard Wilson still join the Browns after interviewing for DC?
Cory Kinnan February 27, 2023 10:45 am ET
The Cleveland Browns brought in the current defensive backs coach and passing game coordinator for the Philadelphia Eagles, Dennard Wilson, for an interview when they were searching for a new defensive coordinator. While he did not get the job and the Browns instead hired Jim Schwartz, the door is not shut for him to join the staff in Cleveland.
According to Jared Mueller of Dawgs by Nature, Wilson could still be on the Browns’ radar as they look to replace Jeff Howard as defensive backs coach and passing game coordinator. The Eagles have been interviewing external candidates galore since Jonathan Gannon was hired by the Arizona Cardinals, and this may not be sitting well with Wilson.
If he does not get the defensive coordinator gig with the Eagles, similar to Bubba Ventrone getting passed up for interim head coach in Indianapolis, this could cause Wilson to look elsewhere. And he has a link to Cleveland.
Will he receive the title: Assistant to the Assistant Head Coach? 😀
I don't know much about him, but I'll take all the experience Jimmy's wallet will provide. His players certainly outwardly endorse him for DC in Philly.
Ian Rapoport Retweeted Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo · The #Browns will release S John Johnson III at the start of the league year on March 15, barring a trade, sources say. Johnson was entering the final year of a three-year contract he signed as a free agent in 2021.
Still young at 27, he’ll have interest once free.
Dumbfounded by this move if accurate.
if you watched his game film... you would know why he got cut.
Dude was out there making business decision tackles after week 5.
We are surrounding Watson with as much support, wisdom and help as possible for the next 2, maybe 3 years. Then, who knows what staff will be surrounding him if we don't make a deep playoff run before 2025.
I like what we're doing to support him.
But the window, as with most other teams, is closing more quickly than I like to think - especially with the remaining offensive weapons we have around him in a couple of years.
I love the shots where the camera is behind the defense and you can see Big, Bad Wyatt completely filling the hole and you can sense the LBer or DB saying: "Oh $%!+! The last clip was one such example of that. He's a mountain of a man who moves well and likes has a mean streak.
Btw: So glad to hear that Stefanski is calling plays again next year. We are making a lot of good decisions w/our coaching staff this off-season!
I don't have a huge problem with KS calling the plays other than he tries to out think himself at crucial times. Example: There were a few times when we were inside the opponents 10 yard line and had goal to go and KS went with an empty backfield, when you have one of the best runningbacks and one of the best Olines why wouldn't you at least make your opponent think you might run the ball.
I don't really have a problem with him calling the plays. What I hope he does do is use the vast experience of the new hires to help develop which plays he calls. As much as people protest otherwise, is play calling could use some refinement at the very least.
As much as people protest otherwise, is play calling could use some refinement at the very least.
Are you capable of making one post where you don't criticize others for their opinions and just give your opinion? For example, mac was not happy about Stefanski calling the plays, but he did not call anyone out. I gave my opinion that I was happy that Stefanski was going to call the plays. I did not call anyone out who thought otherwise. 66 was somewhat neutral and did not call anyone out.
It's almost always you who feels the need to call out others for their opinions that don't align w/yours. It's like having a 12 year old brat on the board. Grow the hell up!
Kevin Stefanski will call plays in 2023 and it's the right call
Jacob Roach March 1, 2023 3:20 pm ET
Again, head coach Kevin Stefanski was asked about play calling for the Cleveland Browns offense next season. He confirmed that he would be the offensive play caller for the fourth straight season and it’s the right decision.
No playcaller is perfect but with Stefanski calling plays Jacoby Brissett had his best and most efficient season. Brissett deserves credit too but Stefanski found the most effective ways to use his abilities better than anyone else in Brissett’s career. Deshaun Watson has said multiple times that Stefanski and his playcalling are great and part of the reason he is in Cleveland. Time will tell if it works out in 2023 but this is the best decision for the offense.
It is a good listen. After hearing it one is inclined to think we finally have gotten things right. One is also inclined to think that if we make the right personnel moves we could make a jump like Cincy did the last 2 years.
I think the changes made to the coaching staff needed to be made.
Change is not always good unless the moves made really improve the product.
It is is interesting to see former front office people and some of the coaches receive promotions when moving on.
We know Bill Callahan is considered a top OL coach. Jim Schwartz is a respected defensive coordinator. Bubba Ventrone from what I have read seems to be well thought of.
I like AVP. Actually I am surprised he has not been sought after as a HC. He appears to be a good communicator with a wealth of experience. I am happy that he is the OC and QB coach. One voice takes away confusion. I think he will work well with DW.
Listening to KS I am always impressed by him. I like his demeanor. I think it is important to be even keeled as a head coach.
I am hopeful that the coaching changes and having DW ready to go opening day will lead to success.
I think Duffin's got it backwards. Non-exclusive (NEFT) is finalized now, the exclusive franchise tag (EFT) is finalized after free agency sometime in April. I'm not sure where he pulled March 7th from. I guess it's the last day for Baltimore to declare Lamar their franchise player. However, I think the EFT number would still go down if we adjusted Watson's contract between then and the "end" of free agency (as far as compensatory pick ramifications, I believe.)
If they do go EFT, I'm not sure the Ravens end up paying it. They could just negotiate a trade for more than the 2 1sts proscribed by the NEFT.
If they go EFT they are guaranteeing that salary. NEFT means they get 2 1st round picks if they don't match the offer. I don't know the dates all that happens...
Does our despicable "Weight Room" score have something to do with available, modern equipment, acceptable supervision and off-field recommendations or......I don't know what. Cleanliness?
If we got an A plus for strength coaches, aren't the strength coaches in the weight room with the players?
Browns ranked 21st in NFLPA's free agency report card
Cory Kinnan March 1, 2023 5:00 pm ET
Every year, the NFLPA releases a free agency report card that grades every NFL team on a variety of categories from weight room facilities, to nutrition and dieting, locker room conditions, strength and training staff, and more. The Cleveland Browns ranked 21st of 32 teams in this report that was released today.
An overview of the report, there were some things to like, and some things that fell way below standard in Berea:
“The Cleveland Browns were ranked 21st in the team guide. The player respondents expressed two major complaints – the first of which is the weight room. It currently takes up about 15 – 20 yards of their indoor practice facility, which the players stated was already small.
The second issue pertained to the locker room, which the players believe is one of the smallest in the league, resulting in many players feeling like they do not have enough personal space.
On a positive note, the team’s training staff and strength coaches are very well liked, and players feel like they add to their overall success. Also, 100% of the locker room believes that owner Jimmy Haslem is willing to invest money into improving the facility.”
The training staff of the Browns received an A, the strength staff received an A+, and the training room received a B+. The locker room and weight room, however, were both given a grade of D+.
Report: Browns want new stadium with roof, FirstEnergy Stadium 'quickly and poorly built'
Cory Kinnan February 27, 2023 7:54 pm ET
FirstEnergy Stadium, the home of the Cleveland Browns, is now the 10th oldest stadium in the NFL as it now stands at 24 years old. And on the same day in which ownership purchased a stake in the Milwaukee Bucks, the Haslams are now pushing for a new stadium. And one with a roof.
According to Ken Prendergast of NEOtrans, the Haslams have concluded that FirstEnergy Stadium is beyond renovation and that it was, “quickly and poorly built and may not be affordably retrofitted with upgrades like wider concourses or a roof, be it retractable or fixed.”
Prendergast reported over the summer that the Haslams are eyeing a stadium with a roof as, “the city-owned stadium is used only 10-12 times per year; a retractable or fixed roof would allow it to be used more often.”
The Buffalo Bills are set to open a new stadium in 2026, and the Browns may be next.
Browns' season ticket prices once again on the rise
Cory Kinnan February 27, 2023 6:43 pm ET
The Cleveland Browns are once again raising their pricing on season tickets despite two off seasons under head coach Kevin Stefanski. According to Cleveland dot com’s Mary Kay Cabot, “approximately 40 percent of the stadium [is] increasing by $5 and another 30 percent by less than $10.”
The price difference is not enormous for those season ticket holders, but they better hope the Browns take full advantage of the NFL Scouting Combine this week to improve the roster to get back into the playoffs in 2023. Fans are losing their patience and their money. Can the Browns reward them with another trip to the playoffs this season?
A retractable dome would be ideal if they can generate the funds for it. I think a dome is almost needed in cold-weather cities. It's pretty dumb to have such a high-cost structure sit empty for months on end.
A retractable dome would be ideal if they can generate the funds for it. I think a dome is almost needed in cold-weather cities. It's pretty dumb to have such a high-cost structure sit empty for months on end.
Really j/c, so don't feel like I'm picking. Everybody shares your mentality, I'm definitely in the minority.
I know what you're saying, and everybody says it when discussing a dome for a cold weather city; but what use are we getting out of a dome while the team is not playing? Anyone ever advocating points to conventions, etc; but there is over 2 million square ft at the IX, and much easier ingress and egress.
Don't get me wrong... everything else stands true: stadium is getting old, no character, quickly built without much imagination... and I would love to have a retractable dome. But team owners always trying to 'sell' it to taxpayers under the guise of 'lost opportunity' for the city cracks me up.
The football season doesn't end until January. What are we doing here in February and March once we have a roof?
Here's everything scheduled at the stadium this year besides Browns games:
Event Schedule
Sort By: Date
Cleveland Monsters vs. Wilkes Barre Scranton Penguins MAR 4 Sat • 1:00pm See Tickets
Monster Jam JUN 3 Sat • 7:00pm See Tickets
Here's past concerts (and big concerts are almost always "summer tours" anyway)
Past concerts See all
Saturday 13 August 2022
Machine Gun Kelly Avril Lavigne, Travis Barker, Trippie Redd, Willow Smith, and 44phantom
FirstEnergy Stadium, Cleveland, OH, US
Thursday 14 July 2022
Mötley Crüe and Def Leppard Poison, Joan Jett & The Blackhearts, and Classless Act
I know what you're saying, and everybody says it when discussing a dome for a cold weather city; but what use are we getting out of a dome while the team is not playing? Anyone ever advocating points to conventions, etc; but there is over 2 million square ft at the IX, and much easier ingress and egress.
The IX Center is a dilapidated building that should be razed and is way out by the airport. You want large events to be held downtown where there are restaurants, bars and other forms of entertainment.
A dome gets the city a Super Bowl, Final Four, the NFL Combine, Conference Championship games when the NFL inevitably starts to rotate conference championships like they do the Super Bowl, college bowl games.
Also, as ticket prices continue to soar, people do not want to pay $1k or more for seats to sit in the cold and rain for 3hrs. See this year's Saints game. Season ticket holders basically tossed that money spent on that game in the trash.
I would like to see the Haslams put up at least 50% of the cost but either way, they're going to get their new stadium.
Side note: The Michigan vs Ohio State hockey match seemed to big a draw a couple weeks ago.
I am interested in your comment about upgrading the nutrition offerings. Please elaborate. To what are you taking exception? What improvements or changes would suit you? We need beer flights maybe.
My post wasn't directed at you and it didn't question the post of the person I was responding to. You're the one confronting me here. Pay attention.
Not everything is about you as much as you think you are the center of attention. It's like having one of the Housewives of Beverly Hills on the board.
I like AVP. Actually I am surprised he has not been sought after as a HC. He appears to be a good communicator with a wealth of experience.
I don't actually think it's a surprise at all if one stops to think about it. I mean look at Eric Bieniemy. The KC Chiefs have had far more success than the Browns but Bieniemy has been viewed as being nothing more than a guy installing Reid's system. So it's not his system and he doesn't call the plays. It put into question whether he actually had the qualifications and ability to be a head coach. I mean as long as you're doing nothing more than installing someone elses system and not even being given the responsibility of calling the offensive plays, people will question your ability to innovate and run the responsibilities of a HC on game day.
Rivera at Washington is a defensive minded HC which will give Bieniemy the ability to showcase his talent as it pertains to installing, running and calling plays on the offense. Bieniemy in KC was in the exact same situation AVP is in here. And if Bieniemy didn't get a shot as an NFL HC, I don't think it should be a surprise that AVP isn't.
I know what you're saying, and everybody says it when discussing a dome for a cold weather city; but what use are we getting out of a dome while the team is not playing? Anyone ever advocating points to conventions, etc; but there is over 2 million square ft at the IX, and much easier ingress and egress.
The IX Center is a dilapidated building that should be razed and is way out by the airport. You want large events to be held downtown where there are restaurants, bars and other forms of entertainment.
A dome gets the city a Super Bowl, Final Four, the NFL Combine, Conference Championship games when the NFL inevitably starts to rotate conference championships like they do the Super Bowl, college bowl games.
Also, as ticket prices continue to soar, people do not want to pay $1k or more for seats to sit in the cold and rain for 3hrs. See this year's Saints game. Season ticket holders basically tossed that money spent on that game in the trash.
I would like to see the Haslams put up at least 50% of the cost but either way, they're going to get their new stadium.
Side note: The Michigan vs Ohio State hockey match seemed to big a draw a couple weeks ago.
IX isn't going anywhere though. New company leasing the property is dumping 50M into "phase one". Splitting the space, adding warehousing and leasing opportunities to other businesses and moving the property forward from the fact that it has been largely underutilized.
What it really comes down to is the size and nature of the events as there is also a Convention Center downtown... it's under 10 years old and also sports over 400,000 sq ft.
As far as the events you mentioned, you're spot on, and damn -- it would be great for season ticket holders (although they would still show up regardless).
So... one Super Bowl, one Final Four in the next ten years. Combine? It's been in Indy for as long as I can remember, I guess we could pry away or 'share' it with them?
My biggest concern is saddling tax payers for something that largely benefits people far above their tax bracket, and is merely icing on the cake for business owners. They've been paying a sin tax for nearly 30 years for the structures that are already there, starting with the original Gateway Project. As of last year, the city has stated that they want to extend that for another 20 years, for maintenance of these structures. So where is the money coming from??
Meanwhile, Jimmy pays a mere $250,000 per year in rent while the city absorbs more than $600,000 in property taxes. And he keeps all advertising, concessions and naming rights revenues.
Take everything that stinks out of this equation and I'm all for it. Even just the naming rights issue is ridiculous. 6M per year in naming rights to Jimmy as the city votes to remove disgraced 'FirstEnergy'... but in the end has no say in the matter.
Here is what I am hearing on the ground here in Indy. Important to note that I am not reporting anything as happening but conversations with people I’ve spent a decade here building relationships with give me access to an understanding of some of the conversations:
*GM Andrew Berry is considered “aggressive” in every conversation. He wants things to happen and pushes to make things happen
*The Jessie Bates III rumor is real but Bates is hoping for a contract that blows people away
*Berry will make cap space when he needs to and is willing to kick the can down the road as long as necessary
*Veterans, either free agents or potential trade targets, are excited about playing with Deshaun Watson, Myles Garrett, Nick Chubb and are impressed by the addition of Jim Schwartz and Bubba Ventrone
*HC Kevin Stefanski is thought of highly around the league, agents and players
*Tight end, despite the expectation of more 11 formations, is expected to be addressed
*Hayden Hurst and Foster Moreau are two names that have been mentioned as Cleveland targets
*The Browns believe Schwartz can fix the defensive line issues as much or more as new players
*The team, like most, loves the current DL class in the NFL draft
*Berry has had talks about adding picks in 2024 including a 2023 pick for a 2024 pick and a player type deal
*There is concern among some agents that the Browns Watson contract could make it more difficult for them to get their vets traded to Cleveland
*The general belief is that this year’s draft lacks depth at the top of the draft. Said in a different way, pick 10 and pick 60 will have similar values to most teams and analysts. Not the same but similar
*Trading down will be a goal of a lot of teams
*Veterans Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham would be interested in joining Schwartz depending on how things go with Philadelphia. Cox is more likely to be free than Graham
I wonder how many of the nutrition complaints are related to protocols that were changed due to COVID- -Designed to keep everyone healthy, but also inconvenient annoyances at times.
Over many years Greg Cosell has taught me more about football than any person.
When he breaks down plays. You learn. He makes the nuances of the game understandable. He is a football junkie. Probably watches as much tape as any coach.
Good interview. If you track Cosell and he mentions players in the draft from any position. Pay attention.
It's about time Stefanski is giving the offense makeover His offenses in the past were antiquated and void of big play Ability.
Good to see AB realizes Harrison Bryant is a bust. When he is In the game he barely contributes. Hurst and Moreau Are upgrades that won't break the bank
It's about time Stefanski is giving the offense makeover His offenses in the past were antiquated and void of big play Ability.
This is completely untrue. Our offense scheme is one of the best in the league. It's the Shannahan/Kubiak scheme that more and more teams are switching to.
It's about time Stefanski is giving the offense makeover His offenses in the past were antiquated and void of big play Ability.
This is completely untrue. Our offense scheme is one of the best in the league. It's the Shannahan/Kubiak scheme that more and more teams are switching to.
If the Browns offensive scheme was 'so excellent', why did the Browns offense rank 19th in offensive performance in the most critical area on the football field..?
Ranking 19th in red zone offense (TDs only)is not an example of a superior offense...it is an example of a below average offense. ...note: the team that ranked 20th in red zone offense (TDs only) was San Francisco...
The Browns offense must improve..especially the Browns red zone offense.
For those wondering, the Browns ranked 8th overall in Offensive Efficiency, which is the most complete and comprehensive ranking that is available. We were actually higher than that when Jacoby was playing. I know we were fifth overall during his tenure. I'll provide links to both.
Btw: I responded to a post that said our offense was antiquated. I did not respond to a post about rankings. I talked about how we our offense is from the Shanahan/Kubiak tree, which is the offense that many, many teams across the league are turning to.
Also, mac is the same guy who said that our defensive scheme was not fit for the NFL. I provided proof of other teams running the same scheme. Also, it sure did not take Woods to get another job in the NFL w/that defense that was not fit for the NFL. Translation: he is talking out of his rear end, yet again.
After a few tumultuous off seasons trying to negotiate a long-term extension, it appears immiment that Jackson will be offered a tag by the Baltimore Ravens in the coming days. Exactly which tag will be the first detail to watch for. It's widely expected that Lamar will be offered the Exclusive Franchise Tag, currently estimated to account for $45.2M in 2023. This number comes with a few conditions. 1) Since the actual official exclusive tenders won't lock until April, the Ravens will be able to account for the non-exclusive price ($32.4M) until that happens. 2) Many of the top QB cap hits are going to be restructured (or released) in the coming weeks, largely changing the end result for this exclusive price point. It's perfectly plausible that Lamar's exclusive tag price is only slightly larger than the non-exclusive figure when it's all said and done.
In this regard, it seems a no-brainer to go this route with their franchise QB, especially if a trade out of Baltimore is at least an option this Spring. The Ravens will be seeking a trade price that far exceeds the two first round picks they would assume with a non-exclusive tag trade.
It would appear that waiting to restructure Watson has no bearing on the official exclusive final tag number since it doesn't lock until April - this ^ appears to be a false narrative. Now it would still have a non-exclusive effect for the initial 21 days or so until the exclusive tag is set in April. However, the Ravens will be able to account the cost to their cap at the non-exclusive price of 32.4M not the projected 45.2M exclusive price tag. In retrospect, the idea of waiting for the declaration on Jackson would not be affected either way by Watson's restructure. The only way the Browns contract with Watson will have any effect on the Ravens is if they'd roll with the 54.993M to be included in the exclusive tag price that Watson's scheduled to account for against the cap in 2023. Once they restructure Watson, that exclusive tag number will fall significantly before the April set date.
Just another drawback from "kicking that can down the road."
vers...I picked the most important stat that shows the effectiveness of the Browns offense in the most critical situations during a game...when the Browns offense is in the "redzone" attempting to score a touchdown.
I did not "cherry pick" moments that only showed the Browns in a favorable moment during the season...but I showed the most honest period of time I could use to reflect the performance of the Browns offense.
Had the Browns offense performed better in the red zone..some of the Browns narrow losses might very well had been "wins" and punched the Browns ticket to the playoffs.
I would think that you would agree, the Browns red zone offense needs to improve if the team expects to make the playoffs in 2023.
I do expect changes next year w/our offense due to having Watson at QB. Here is a tweet to say we should expect to see more shotgun and spreading the field. I would prefer more Pistol [Jake Burns wrote a great article about it] than straight shotgun, but I'm not sure if the author was making that distinction. I can explain the difference if anyone is interested. I also think seeing Chubb's splits is interesting.
You tailor your offense around the talent you have. Watson will change everything from formations to the play calling. Or should. Bringing the Browns into the more modern version of todays game.
I knew you would resort to deflection. Get lost w/your nonsense. The Browns offense is NOT antiquated! Period.
The Browns offense needs to improve in the red zone...
The performance of the Browns offense in the most important area on a football field (the red zone) is "below average...not good enough".
It should be an area of great concern for the Browns franchise if they are seriously looking for those areas they can improve upon. The Browns Red Zone offense is a weakness that can be improved upon.
vers..you want to discuss whether the Browns offense is antique or not...GO FOR IT..!!
I thought for sure he would re-sign w/Philly or retire. He is still productive. In fact, his PFF scores are unreal. His overall grade is 89.8.
Report: Browns have interest in veteran DE Brandon Graham
Cory Kinnan March 3, 2023 6:00 pm ET
As the Cleveland Browns look to reconstruct their defensive line after an abysmal year against the run, they are reported to have interest in a former player under new defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz. According to Tim McManus, who covers the Philadelphia Eagles for ESPN, veteran defensive lineman Brandon Graham is drawing interest from the Browns. This comes a day after a rumor came out that Graham was also interested in reuniting with Schwartz in Cleveland.
The legal tampering window opens up on March 12, so expect a whirlwind of news to fall in nine days from now. Expect the Browns to be big players this offseason as they look to get back into the playoffs.
I believe this is coming from Tim's original tweet below.
Anyways, Graham makes sense on two fronts....its at a position of need and he has connections to Schwartz. And although he had a high PFF grade last year, he'll be 34. If we really want him, I hope it comes in some form of the Andrew Berry one-year special that he is so inclined to offer, while we continue to develop younger guys or come across the long term answer.
Graham had 13 sacks, 32 hurries, 3 qb hits, and 2 forced fumbles last year as part of the Eagles' DL rotation. That's incredibly productive for anyone and it's insane for a man of his age. I totally agree that signing him on a 1-year Berry Special makes all the sense in the world. That would be quite the coup for us if we get him at around $4.5 million.
This sounds too similar to the time E. Mangini traded too much of the draft away for Jets backups. How did that turn out? and I'm talking about the ensuing ten to twelve years. Yay: future. Here we go again.
Graham had 13 sacks, 32 hurries, 3 qb hits, and 2 forced fumbles last year as part of the Eagles' DL rotation. That's incredibly productive for anyone and it's insane for a man of his age.
All I can think is it must be especially incredibly productive for anyone who is used to watching Jordan Elliott get pushed over like he is wearing roller skates but this the NFL. funny sad indifferent.
He's been incredibly durable over the course of his career. Besides the torn Achilles in Week 2 of the 2021 season, he'd missed one game since 2011. He finished 4th in Comeback Player last season after his return from the injury.
I remember his Combine after his career at TUN. There were a lot of questions about him, but he was awesome at the Senior Bowl and the Combine. I remember watching his agility drills at the Combine and thinking that this guy is going to be an excellent pass rusher, despite his lack of weight. I also remember that strip sack of Brady in the Super Bowl that saved the day for the Eagles only Super Bowl win. Dude has always had an intense motor.
I will never figure out how the Browns chose Jed Wills at #10 of the 2020 draft and passed over Tristan Wirfs, out of Iowa, to fill the Browns LT needs.
The headlines after the 2020 draft read...
Iowa's Tristan Wirfs posts record-breaking NFL combine workout Published: Feb 28, 2020 at 10:21 AM link
Alabama OT Jedrick Wills reportedly scored a 9 on his wonderlic and had to take it again by Damond TalbotApril 16, 2020 link
Wirfs went on to be named to the Pro Bowl twice plus earning other honors for his play at OT...Wills is nothing more than a marginal OT in the NFL.
The Browns picked Wills at #10 and Tampa Bay grinned all the way to bank picking Wirfs at #13... link
I will never figure out how the Browns chose Jed Wills at #10 of the 2020 draft and passed over Tristan Wirfs, out of Iowa, to fill the Browns LT needs.
The headlines after the 2020 draft read...
Iowa's Tristan Wirfs posts record-breaking NFL combine workout Published: Feb 28, 2020 at 10:21 AM link
Alabama OT Jedrick Wills reportedly scored a 9 on his wonderlic and had to take it again by Damond TalbotApril 16, 2020 link
Wirfs went on to be named to the Pro Bowl twice plus earning other honors for his play at OT...Wills is nothing more than a marginal OT in the NFL.
The Browns picked Wills at #10 and Tampa Bay grinned all the way to bank picking Wirfs at #13... link
Hindsight is always 20/20
Originally Posted by mac
04/24/20 06:26 AM I like the pick, welcome to Cleveland, Jed.
I have to give the Browns GM, Andrew Berry, an 'A' for resisting all the crazy scenarios about trading out of the #10 spot, trading down to gain more draft picks (aka, moneyball) and taking one of the lesser OTs, such as Izra Cleveland.
The Browns had a need and addressed it..what more could a Browns fan want?
In fact, the only two posters that said they wanted Wirfs over Wills were cfrs15 and Dawgs4Life.
It wasn't hard to like the pick when even Bill Callahan talked about his incredible skillset and said he "jumped off the screen".
Yep. The best in the biz are wrong way more than they're right. Seems like most of the MMQBs have an impeccable record though...
I think you miss the point and that's ok - each has their own opinion. Drafting Wills at #10 for an NFL LT position, a position that he had not played a single down at in his entire life, was an unnecessary risk by Berry. Wirfs had experience at LT even though he played RT most of the time at Iowa. The conversion would have been very fluid for Wirfs where it hasn't for Wills. The risk of the pick has now delivered the Browns a "serviceable" weak LT while the Bucs got a 2-time RT Pro Bowler that is now rumored to being moved to the LT position this season. I will agree with you that the best in the biz are wrong sometimes - the hard part is admitting it which apparently is something the Browns and Berry refuse to do - think Schwartz, Elliott and Wills.
Just a note for those that don't know and because mac's original post failed to clarify this distinction. Wirfs has played RT for TB. He has not played LT. Many saw that Wills had LT skills. Everyone knew Wirfs did not. He's a great RT. No doubt about it, but he was not going to ever play LT. Also, Wills has shown that he can do things that jump off the screen. Analysts have provided video of him doing just that. He has been inconsistent, but he has done some great things, as well.
It's also a bit odd that we were talking about us getting Graham and the next post is about the 2020 draft out of nowhere. It happens frequently and it's always done to throw shade out of the Browns.
Yep. The best in the biz are wrong way more than they're right. Seems like most of the MMQBs have an impeccable record though...
While I certainly don't disagree with what you're saying in regards to the posters on this board I think a little context is called for here. Because the contrast between the two are stark and obvious. We are all just posters on a message board. Yes, some people take themselves more seriously than others but that in no way changes the fact that if they were qualified enough to be NFL scouts or in the FO, they would be. But obviously they're not.
Conversely NFL teams have complete scouting departments. An entire FO and when combined spend millions in talent evaluation including film study, the combines and player interviews. Interviews with their coaches and former coaches. The resources, time and investment dedicated to who and which players should be drafted are virtually limitless. NFL teams in total have high seven figure investments allocated to this process.
You are correct that NFL teams get it wrong a lot even when you factor that in. I also agree with Vers that drafting a LT has everything to do with the skill set of the player more than anything and I too endorsed the pick of Wills.
I do however think it's disingenuous to try to make a point by comparing a poster on a message board to an NFL team.
I will never figure out how the Browns chose Jed Wills at #10 of the 2020 draft and passed over Tristan Wirfs, out of Iowa, to fill the Browns LT needs.
The headlines after the 2020 draft read...
Iowa's Tristan Wirfs posts record-breaking NFL combine workout Published: Feb 28, 2020 at 10:21 AM link
Alabama OT Jedrick Wills reportedly scored a 9 on his wonderlic and had to take it again by Damond TalbotApril 16, 2020 link
Wirfs went on to be named to the Pro Bowl twice plus earning other honors for his play at OT...Wills is nothing more than a marginal OT in the NFL.
The Browns picked Wills at #10 and Tampa Bay grinned all the way to bank picking Wirfs at #13... link
Hindsight is always 20/20
Originally Posted by mac
04/24/20 06:26 AM I like the pick, welcome to Cleveland, Jed.
I have to give the Browns GM, Andrew Berry, an 'A' for resisting all the crazy scenarios about trading out of the #10 spot, trading down to gain more draft picks (aka, moneyball) and taking one of the lesser OTs, such as Izra Cleveland.
The Browns had a need and addressed it..what more could a Browns fan want?
In fact, the only two posters that said they wanted Wirfs over Wills were cfrs15 and Dawgs4Life.
It wasn't hard to like the pick when even Bill Callahan talked about his incredible skillset and said he "jumped off the screen".
This would be an excellent hire if the Browns can pull it off.
Could Dennard Wilson still join the Browns after interviewing for DC?
Cory Kinnan February 27, 2023 10:45 am ET
The Cleveland Browns brought in the current defensive backs coach and passing game coordinator for the Philadelphia Eagles, Dennard Wilson, for an interview when they were searching for a new defensive coordinator. While he did not get the job and the Browns instead hired Jim Schwartz, the door is not shut for him to join the staff in Cleveland.
According to Jared Mueller of Dawgs by Nature, Wilson could still be on the Browns’ radar as they look to replace Jeff Howard as defensive backs coach and passing game coordinator. The Eagles have been interviewing external candidates galore since Jonathan Gannon was hired by the Arizona Cardinals, and this may not be sitting well with Wilson.
If he does not get the defensive coordinator gig with the Eagles, similar to Bubba Ventrone getting passed up for interim head coach in Indianapolis, this could cause Wilson to look elsewhere. And he has a link to Cleveland.
Another rumor that almost seems too good to be true is this one.
Colts big DT floated as a possible “Amari Cooper” like trade target for Browns DeForest Buckner fits what the Browns did last year
By JaredMueller@JaredKMueller Mar 5, 2023, 4:55pm EST 1 Comment / 1 New
Cleveland Browns GM Andrew Berry, like most people, tends to repeat previous behaviors if they worked out. Like too many humans, he sometimes repeats behaviors that haven’t yet worked out.
That is why it is still hard to believe him at his word that he doesn’t have any kind of age guardrail when it comes to early draft selections.
Last year, Berry got a steal of a deal when he traded two later draft selections to the Dallas Cowboys in exchange for WR Amari Cooper and a draft pick. Cooper went on to have an excellent season in 2022 for the Browns while the team also reworked his contract to make it more palatable upfront.
Zak Jackson as The Athletic (subscriber, $) noted that Cleveland could be looking to do the same thing once again this year:
Actually, they might not even wait that long as they figure to try to trade for at least one proven player, too, and as other teams make money-driven decisions in the coming days, it remains entirely possible that the Browns will get a chance to follow last year’s Amari Cooper model and use third-day picks to acquire a good player, then eventually re-shape the contract that player’s previous team needed to go away.
Later in his piece, Jackson brought up Indianapolis Colts DT DeForest Buckner as one name that would make a lot of sense in a Cooper-style trade. The Colts are likely looking at drafting a rookie quarterback high in the 2023 NFL draft and paying a 29-year-old defensive tackle $20 million a year may not make sense at the same time.
Buckner has only missed two games in his seven seasons in the league despite playing in the middle of the trenches. He has had 24.5 sacks the last three seasons with Indianapolis after 28.5 in his first three seasons with the San Francisco 49ers.
If Berry can acquire Buckner for a similar package that he got Cooper for, while either renegotiating or extending his contract, the Browns defense could see a similar uptick that the offense did last year.
Another report is that Jessie Bates would like to play w/Watson. They share the same agent. But, Bates might be saying that because we just cut JJIII and he knows that we might be looking for a FS.
If Berry can acquire Buckner for a similar package that he got Cooper for, while either renegotiating or extending his contract, the Browns defense could see a similar uptick to what the offense had last year.
The offense had an uptick? They could have fooled me.
Jessie Bates was a sieve and Baker Mayfield used to pick on him. The Browns 3 best options for Jessie Bates are I. if he would stay in Cincinnati 2. If he would go to the ravens or 3. if he would go to the steelers,
that way the Browns could still play against him twice a year, and get the maximum benefits.
Browns free agent/trade targets and why they must be aggressive ahead of the draft
By Zac Jackson Mar 5, 2023
INDIANAPOLIS — There I was, standing in the main media center at the NFL Scouting Combine last week, with small-ish (by NFL standards) Pitt defensive tackle Calijah Kancey speaking at a podium about 15 feet to my left and 6-foot-6, 310-pound (but looking like more) Florida defensive tackle Gervon Dexter fielding questions to my right. Both feel like second-round prospects, according to various lists compiled by folks who consume themselves with this stuff on a year-round basis, and for a moment I caught myself genuinely torn on which prospect, from a Cleveland Browns perspective, was most worth a closer listen.
No, this wasn’t really some moment of deep thought or symbolism. Mostly, I felt right back at home knowing that Draft Argument Season has arrived again.
Does bigger mean better for the Browns, who are about to take on a significant remake of their defensive line group? Is getting bigger defensive tackles mandatory after the run defense was so bad it leaked to multiple other areas of the team in 2022? Would Kancey or Dexter really be a target with the Browns’ first pick of this year’s draft, which comes at No. 42 in the second round? These are all fair questions and fair talking points in and around Draft Argument Season, which this year still might be fun, eventually, but is about to be interrupted by free agency and trade season.
To answer my own existential question, the Browns are absolutely going big next week. They have to. They’re going to reduce quarterback Deshaun Watson’s $54.9 million salary-cap number by adding voidable years to his contract, and they’re going to create enough cap room to be big-ticket hunters next Monday. Actually, they might not even wait that long as they figure to try to trade for at least one proven player, too, and as other teams make money-driven decisions in the coming days, it remains entirely possible that the Browns will get a chance to follow last year’s Amari Cooper model and use third-day picks to acquire a good player, then eventually re-shape the contract that player’s previous team needed to go away.
The Browns have clear needs at defensive tackle, defensive end and wide receiver. They’re likely going to be shopping for help at safety and linebacker, too. A year after everything was about Watson and the Browns declaring themselves ready to chase big prizes, this offseason is about giving Watson more explosive players to target and cleaning up a defense that has a new leader in veteran coordinator Jim Schwartz. It was clear from early last season that the Browns would be moving on from former defensive coordinator Joe Woods. It was also clear that the defense didn’t have the right pieces — or enough of them — regardless of who was making the play calls.
Now we’re a week away from the player movement period. Schwartz has had two months to get to know the personnel already in place and clearly outline his priorities and list of must-haves to general manager Andrew Berry. Browns coach Kevin Stefanski has re-worked the staff in all three phases and has had time to talk extensively with Watson, Berry and offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt about the kind of quick-twitch wide receivers who can help Watson not just settle in, but return to his prior form. If Watson is just a little better in 2023 than he was in his strange and disappointing six-game trial at the end of 2022, then the Browns will miss the playoffs again and all the key decision-makers will probably get fired. There’s just no other way to say or view it at this point after the Browns went 7-10 and finished at the bottom of the AFC North, then started this offseason by again having to cut a player who, two years prior, was the first free agent of their class and still had guaranteed money on his contract. Last year it was Austin Hooper, and this year it’s John Johnson III.
It’s perfectly reasonable to think Watson can instantly be a lot better and that Schwartz can almost instantly clean up a lot of things that repeatedly sunk the Browns’ defense last year. It’s also more than fair to say that any road back to the playoffs starts with a big March and the Browns positioning themselves to fix some holes and add some much-needed leadership to the defense. Under Berry, the Browns have been pretty good at identifying and attacking the big needs and just OK at actually making it work. Needing at least one starting defensive tackle and still needing a true complement to Myles Garrett is not a good place to be.
Lots of teams fail in free agency; no team actually prefers to have to use it. But good teams have mid-round draft picks waiting to fill holes that free agency fails to fill, and the Browns don’t have many of those. This roster needs major help, and that’s why the Browns are going to have to use major resources this month.
Potential free agent/trade targets
The free agent wide receiver class is not great. The Browns could be interested in players like D.J. Chark, Parris Campbell or Mecole Hardman — or they could trade for a wide receiver like they did last year. They’ll have better free-agent options on the defensive line. Javon Hargrave is 30, but he seems to perfectly fit the “attacking” style that both Stefanski and Berry said Schwartz wants to play during their combine interviews. Daron Payne got the franchise tender from the Commanders, but perhaps Payne could still be had via trade. The Colts are in a weird transition phase, and DeForest Buckner is due a lot of money.
Buckner, who soon turns 29, is a force in the middle. He’s under contract for two more years at cap numbers of around $20 million in each season. If the Colts are willing to listen and are looking to clear cap space for the future, the Browns need to keep calling.
Buckner has been named to three pro bowls across seven NFL seasons with the 49ers and Colts. (Rich Barnes / USA Today) I don’t know that he really wants to leave the Pacific time zone, but the Browns should also be calling about linebacker Bobby Wagner, who’s parting ways with the Rams. Getting that kind of leader would help the entire team; landing Wagner would also be a statement to those of us on the outside that players think the Browns are close. Four different players played middle linebacker for the Browns last year; three of them are free agents, and none of them is the player that Wagner is, even at 32.
Maybe the leadership need can be partially filled by defensive end Brandon Graham, who’s going to be 35 and would be the Browns’ third rusher. Graham was a Pro Bowler under Schwartz when Schwartz was the Eagles’ defensive coordinator. That feels like a down-the-line signing, and everything points to the Browns being busy and aggressive right now. Free agency doesn’t necessarily have to be done in 36 hours, but the Browns won’t be the only bidders if they’re going to be shopping in the high-bonus district.
Defensive tackle over defensive end? Wide receiver over other defensive needs? Maybe one big trade and one big signing, then some depth guys? We’ll soon see. We’re all kind of guessing right now, which is part of what makes these arguments so fun. We all want to be right. The Browns NEED to be right. Bad draft classes and bad free agent classes land you at the bottom of the division. They make you desperate in March, too. It’s not that desperation has to be a bad thing. There’s supposed to be urgency in trying to improve the roster and trying to further unlock your best players. There has to be urgency now.
One prediction/argument I feel pretty good about is the Browns won’t ultimately pick at No. 42. They’ll either trade that pick for a defensive lineman over the next several days, or trade down once the second day of the draft begins. The draft’s five best wide receivers will be long gone by then. Presumably, the Browns will have spent pretty big money on multiple defensive veterans by then.
To go all the way back to the top, I don’t think the Browns would take a defensive tackle at No. 42. They just haven’t valued that position the way they have others — which is probably a big reason why they’re in the spot they’re in now. In two or three weeks, we’ll be right back to arguments about the team’s draft-age guardrails, reliance on athletic testing numbers and how many available rookies could really help this Browns team in 2023. But for now, let’s follow the team’s lead in focusing on right now. Last year, the Cooper trade was made in the wake of the combine and two days before the free agent negotiation period actually started. March 13 marks the official start of the big money flying. For the Browns, the quiet period of the offseason is over — and the time to fix some of the prior wrongs is right now.
I don't like the title including Jessie Bates, but this is an informative article about the status of several guys.
Deshaun Watson open to contract restructure; safety Jessie Bates III would love to play with Watson: Browns Insider Updated: Mar. 06, 2023, 6:35 a.m.|Published: Mar. 05, 2023, 6:00 a.m.
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio — Deshaun Watson is open to restructuring his contract over the next week to help the Browns get under the salary cap, and to clear some space to add quality veterans via free agency or trades, a league source says.
It comes days after Browns GM Andrew Berry noted at the NFL Scouting Combine that a restructuring for Watson “could be on the table” but that they have other options as well.
The Browns are currently more than $13.415 million over the cap, and must get under it by March 15. The easiest transaction would be to significantly lower Watson’s $54.993 cap charge for 2023 — same as the next three years — and give him more bonus money up front. His entire $230 million five-year contract is fully guaranteed anyway, so it’s just a matter of when he’s getting the money, not if.
Watson is as committed to winning a Super Bowl as anyone, and won’t hesitate to re-do the deal to help the Browns participate fully in free agency and the trade market, I’m told. Browns GM Andrew Berry has already acknowledged he’s releasing safety John Johnson III, which will save the Browns $9.75 million of his $13.5 million cap charge if he’s a June 1 designation. He can look to lower the cap charges of other big-money players such as Myles Garrett ($29.176 million) and Amari Cooper ($23.776 million).
Others in the double-digit millions club are guards Wyatt Teller and Joel Bitonio, running back Nick Chubb, and cornerback Denzel Ward.
Last season, Watson’s cap charge was only $9.395 million, and his base was only $402,5000, which enabled the Browns to add other key players. If all goes as expected, his lower cap number in 2023 will provide the same opportunities to upgrade his supporting cast on both sides of the ball.
The Browns’ top needs heading into free agency are a safety to replace Johnson, a speedy receiver, a defensive tackle, and an end to replace Jadeveon Clowney. A re-do for Watson would go a long way towards accomplishing those goals.
Jessie Bates III would love to play with Watson if he hits the market
Bengals safety Jessie Bates III, a 2020 second-team All-Pro, would love to play with Watson if he hits the market, a league source says.
The problem is, Bates’ market value is about $14 million a year according to Spotrac, and the price could climb if teams getting into a bidding war for the premier available safety.
A replacement for John Johnson III, who will be released, Bates would be the impact safety the Browns need in the back end. A ballhawk, he had four interceptions in 2022.
Bates, who played on the franchise tag last season, told Bengals.com’s Geoff Hobson after the season that he wanted to be back with the Bengals, but must take advantage of this opportunity.
“Unfortunately, this business, there’s different scenarios where I’m not in a situation where I can leave $10 million on the table and be OK with that,” Bates said. “It wouldn’t be fair to myself, my family, my legacy. Obviously yes I want to be here. My family is three hours away from here. I’ve created bonds in this locker room. I want to be here.”
Bates is one of a number of big-name free agents on the Browns’ radar, and it wouldn’t be surprising if they pursue him when the negotiating period opens March 13.
Browns didn’t try to restructure John Johnson III
Johnson, who had a $1 million roster bonus due March 17th and a $13.5 million cap charge for 2023, wasn’t offered a contract re-do to remain with the Browns, a league source told cleveland.com. Browns GM Andrew Berry confirmed at the NFL Scouting Combine they’re releasing him soon.
Furthermore, a trade market hasn’t materialized for a player coming off an average season compared to his stellar campaigns with the Rams.
Johnson, 27, hopes to land in a spot where he can showcase his versatility, playing up closer to the line at times as well as deep, and everywhere else in the secondary. A fan favorite in his short time here, he leaves Cleveland on good terms.
“I appreciate the Cleveland Browns for the opportunity,” Johnson told cleveland.com. “The city is truly one of a kind. I wish that I could’ve done more while here; however, I know that my best ball is ahead of me. I pray great things for my former teammates.”
Johnson expects to receive interest from multiple teams, and the Browns will look to replace him with either Bates or another high-caliber safety.
Kareem Hunt, Ronnie Harrison Jr. and other Browns free agents who won’t be back
The Browns have a number of impending free agents who will be allowed to walk in free agency with little or no effort to re-sign them. They include running back Kareem Hunt, safety Ronnie Harrison Jr., defensive end Jadeveon Clowney and cornerback Greedy Williams.
Hunt asked to be traded during training camp, and will try to find a new home, preferably one where he can be the featured back. Clowney sealed his fate when he was kept him from the season finale in Pittsburgh for venting about his usage in 2022 and revealing that he refused to play on anything but third down in the loss in Baltimore. Harrison and Williams will find new homes.
Linebackers Anthony Walker and Sione Takitaki among Browns free agents who could return
The Browns have a handful of free agents who have a good chance of being back, including some coming off season-ending injuries. Two linebackers the Browns will try to re-sign are Anthony Walker Jr., coming off a torn quad, and Sione Takitaki, coming off of a torn ACL.
If both come back, the Browns will be in good shape at linebacker, including the return of Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah from a midfoot sprain and Jacob Phillips from a torn pectoral muscle.
Center Ethan Pocic will likely test the market; Browns feel good about Nick Harris
Pocic, the No. 9 center in the NFL according to Pro Football Focus, played so well in 2023 he might’ve priced himself off the Browns’ roster. Pocic’s market value is about $7.2 million a year according to Spotrac. The Browns have or will talk numbers with Pocic’s agent, and then he’ll likely test the free agent waters beginning March 13. But the Browns feel good about 2020 fifth-round pick Nick Harris, who’s coming off a season-ending injury suffered in the preseason opener.
Harris is on track to start the season, and the Browns still believe in him as a starter.
Running back D’Ernest Johnson has a decent chance to be back
Johnson closed out the 2023 season frustrated that he got so few opportunities to touch the ball. He ran it four times for 17 yards, caught three passes for 7 yards, and returned one kickoff for 27 yards. But the Browns, who paid Johnson $1.2165 million in ‘22, are open to re-signing him. With Hunt gone, there will be more opportunities for Johnson and 2022 fifth-round pick Jerome Ford.
The truth of the matter is , if a RB is your best weapon on offense Then your offense isn't putting up alot of points And in this league , you will only go as far as your offense takes you. How many Super Bowls did Derrick Henry carry the Titans Into ?. How many playoff appearances did the Browns Achieve with Chubb/Hunt. ? Jamal Williams racked up 17 TDs last year.how did the Lions fare? Josh Jacob's league rushing title. Yet he was home watching The playoffs. RBs are complementary pieces now. Maybe Stefanski and Berry finally got the memo.
Host: That's interesting.....you're not going to establish the run first? Stefanski: That's a fallacy. You don't have to establish the run to throw.
Nothing is etched in stone..nothing that says your team has to run first...nothing that says a team has throw first.
IMO it is best to remain un-predictable and simply read the defense and identify the defensive weaknesses and exploit them as long as the offense produces.
Host: That's interesting.....you're not going to establish the run first? Stefanski: That's a fallacy. You don't have to establish the run to throw.
Nothing is etched in stone..nothing that says your team has to run first...nothing that says a team has throw first.
IMO it is best to remain un-predictable and simply read the defense and identify the defensive weaknesses and exploit them as long as the offense produces.
I don't disagree. I wasn't going to quote the entire back and forth but the gist of it was Stefanski said you need to have both (run and pass) for a successful offense. The host then asked him if he had to pick one....Kevin said something along the lines of pass first to set up the run. Then came what I posted....
Since we came back into the NFL; Stefanski is by far my favorite HC.
I have been watching the NFL since 1960. In all those years no matter who the OC was or who called the plays. Fans complained about play calling. Lindy Infante, Bruce Arians doesn't matter.
Play calling will always be second guessed.
So, set that aside for moment. His scheme and plays have been designed to fit the players.
Play action bootleg to the left was done to help BM see the field and get away from batted balls. We had a great OL. We had a deep running back room. We ran the ball. Play action was there to create passing targets for BM.
Stefanski is no ego maniac. He defends his players. He takes the blame. He keeps level headed. He does it so the players know what to expect from him. Not some emotional roller coaster. He is a first time HC. He assembled his first staff. After three seasons he made the tough decisions and made the needed changes in coaching.
I loved the interview.
2023 will be the beginning of DW era. The offense is going to change.
Host: That's interesting.....you're not going to establish the run first? Stefanski: That's a fallacy. You don't have to establish the run to throw.
Nothing is etched in stone..nothing that says your team has to run first...nothing that says a team has throw first.
IMO it is best to remain un-predictable and simply read the defense and identify the defensive weaknesses and exploit them as long as the offense produces.
I don't disagree. I wasn't going to quote the entire back and forth but the gist of it was Stefanski said you need to have both (run and pass) for a successful offense. The host then asked him if he had to pick one....Kevin said something along the lines of pass first to set up the run. Then came what I posted....
If the Browns are able to improve their passing game they might become very difficult for most teams to predict the Browns offensive priorities/tendencies. It becomes very difficult to predict teams that are capable of doing both, run and pass.
Host: That's interesting.....you're not going to establish the run first? Stefanski: That's a fallacy. You don't have to establish the run to throw.
Nothing is etched in stone..nothing that says your team has to run first...nothing that says a team has throw first.
IMO it is best to remain un-predictable and simply read the defense and identify the defensive weaknesses and exploit them as long as the offense produces.
I don't disagree. I wasn't going to quote the entire back and forth but the gist of it was Stefanski said you need to have both (run and pass) for a successful offense. The host then asked him if he had to pick one....Kevin said something along the lines of pass first to set up the run. Then came what I posted....
If the Browns are able to improve their passing game they might become very difficult for most teams to predict the Browns offensive priorities/tendencies. It becomes very difficult to predict teams that are capable of doing both, run and pass.
Would you rather have one team like the 85 Bears who won a Super Bowl and were mediocre for nine years.
Or, get to the playoffs for ten years and never win a Super Bowl?
As long as we don't have a repeat of the Hue Jackson years, I'd be okay with either one. Super Bowl would be nice, but things happen every year. As long as I don't want to drink myself into oblivion every weekend and/or wash my eyes out with bleach, it works for me.
Would you rather have one team like the 85 Bears who won a Super Bowl and were mediocre for nine years.
Or, get to the playoffs for ten years and never win a Super Bowl?
I would without a doubt take the playoff team for 10 years. That's 10 opportunities to get to the Super Bowl (I'm sure you meant to add no Super Bowl during those 10 years - if not, getting there and losing is a step forward). Knowing that every year the Browns were a team challenging for the Super Bowl would be way better than having a 1 year up followed by 9 more years of the hell we've been living through. Afterall, in 25 years, we can't even say the Browns have ever been a consistent winner. I'd kill to have a record like PIT has by not having a losing season in 19 years or having them finish behind us for 33 straight years. I won't ever live long enough to see something like that, but I'd sure like to feel that way for a decade or so. But it doesn't look like that's goal of this team now.
I wish the Cleveland media would not get noticeably excited so much about some lame ravens player. I wish they could understand I can't be the only one who just doesn't give a hoover cement structure about anything that raven passer does good bad or indifferent, anything, anything, anything. " oh oh, but, what does it mean to the contract situations." Bleh... Stop talking about that lousy player, he can pound sand or join the circus. I don't care what he does or what it means to other teams either. Baltimore is a nondisclosed.
I'd take that one year and a Super Bowl win. As it is we only make the playoff's once a decade and that's been going on for 30 years. I've been a Browns fan since 1967. I'm now in my mid-60's. I don't have a lot of time left. It's amazing to me that we haven't been able to get to one SB in the last 55 years and have been as bad as we've been. Hard to fathom.
Hargrave would be a great addition. He excelled against the run in W. PA and as a pass rusher in E. PA. In my mind, he is ideal if we go w/one "spash" signing. If we were to sign him, I think we would go after less expensive options during the rest of FA. Maybe guys like Love from the Giants, or Ward from SF. Maybe the Edge guy from SF whose name I forgot how to spell. Maybe gamble on a guy like Paris Campbell and hope he can stay healthy.
NFL strips Texans of fifth-round draft pick for salary cap violation with Deshaun Watson Posted by Michael David Smith on March 9, 2023, 3:34 PM EST
The Texans have been fined and stripped of a fifth-round draft pick for a salary cap violation.
The NFL is taking the Texans’ 2023 fifth-round pick and fining the team $175,000 for violating the salary cap by providing Deshaun Watson with “undisclosed compensation in the form of a membership at an alternative athletic facility in 2020,” the league announced.
The violation stems from the Texans paying $26,000 for a local training facility where Watson was training while the Texans’ facility was closed because of COVID-19, according to Adam Schefter of ESPN.
That was Watson’s final season in Houston. He played for the Texans in 2020 but sat out the entire 2021 season and then was traded to the Browns in 2022.
Then the one third who did show up must all be wrong. Then of course one must consider which teams are actually looking to sign a WR rather than draft one or even have a need at the WR position and add that in.. But let's ignore all of that.
Then the one third who did show up must all be wrong. Then of course one must consider which teams are actually looking to sign a WR rather than draft one or even have a need at the WR position and add that in.. But let's ignore all of that.
It doesn't mean anything one way or another. It cost teams nothing to send out their regional scout in the area in some situations to do a due diligence show up visit to see how he looks physically after being injured every season since 2014. 11 teams decided to show up, one of which was the Cardinals in their own back yard. 21 opted to stay at home.
I'm not saying he won't sign with a team....he probably will. But to say teams showing up must mean something definitively is silly.
You don't go to see a WR do a private workout if you have predetermined he is washed up. This isn't difficult. I'm not saying he will be signed either. The point to all of this is people posted on this board that he's done. If NFL teams agreed with that, they wouldn't have gone to that workout.
They may agree that he's washed up after seeing the workout. That I have no idea of. Point being several NFL teams had not reached that same conclusion at the time this workout took place.
You don't go to see a WR do a private workout if you have predetermined he is washed up. This isn't difficult. I'm not saying he will be signed either. The point to all of this is people posted on this board that he's done. If NFL teams agreed with that, they wouldn't have gone to that workout.
They may agree that he's washed up after seeing the workout. That I have no idea of. Point being several NFL teams had not reached that same conclusion at the time this workout took place.
You send someone because you do due diligence. You don't send someone because you decide there is no way he can help you, but if you think he can, even if you are fairly sure he won't, you send someone.
The mountain you see is nothing more than a mole hill.
You have actually described exactly what I was talking about.
Originally Posted by FrankZ
You don't send someone because you decide there is no way he can help you, but if you think he can, even if you are fairly sure he won't, you send someone.
Exactly. If you had already determined he was washed up do to previous injuries, you certainly wouldn't think there's a possibility he could help you.
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The mountain you see is nothing more than a mole hill.
In this case it's the exact opposite. I mentioned a mole hill and someone tried to make a mountain out of it.
When we got him. I was jacked up. Thrilled. Thought he would tear it up.
We all know it did not work. Then his father and that whole drama. Then he gets shown the door.
Then the locker room talks. Odell is a great guy. Really popular. "We hate to see him go." Then LA.
"Great teammate." "He helped us win." =======================================================================
What is the truth? Prima donna drama queen or what?
He may actually fit with DW. Where he was not a fit with BM.
In the free agent thread I said "Odell knows how to get open." Maybe not by running the play the way it drawn up. Part of what DW does well is extend plays and find guys who can get open.
I wonder how Odell left it with Berry and KS?
Just going to watch him tells me they are willing to look.
I'm guessing its a combination of things, one being he wasn't happy and wanted a change, and alot of it had to do with Baker, The second part my guess is FO saw the lack of chemistry with Baker and OBJ so they moved him to force Baker to go elsewhere and to remove any notion that it was odell holding back the offense rather than the guy throwing the ball.
OBJ being washed up was a false narrative by certain posters on this board. He went to LA and played very well. Had huge moments in the playoff games and was the favorite to win the Super Bowl MVP before he got hurt. Multiple teams were after him last year. Players around the league were trying to entice him to come to their team. He was in Dallas to attend a Mavs game w/some of the Cowboy players and crowd was chanting "OBJ, OBJ, OBJ."
He's drawing interest again this year. All three teams he played for were in attendance. He still has mad skills. The question is if he has healed from his second ACL. No one knows the answer to that right now other than perhaps the insiders in OBJ's camp. Teams were there to see how he ran and how the knee looked. If he looks good, teams will go after him and have him take a physical.
It's never been an issue of diminishing skills. It's about the knee.
I would not be surprised if he Landed with the Chiefs Patrick Mahomes is so good going off script and making Plays when it looks like their is no play to be made. OBJ is really good at breaking off routes and getting open. That's one reason why him and Baker couldn't mesh In Cleveland. If the play broke down around Baker He could not improvise at all. But OBJ was good at going Off script yet many claimed he was a poor route runner No Baker had to have every thing dialed up perfect in Order to succeed
I hope we sign him if for no other reason than to think of some of our poster's heads exploding.
That will be my head exploding. I certainly want nothing to do with the Odell-and-Daddy crap show v 2.0. All he does is practice one-hand diva grabs, then drops easy catches. He's so NOT CLUTCH. I don't know why anybody would even bother.
In the free agent thread I said "Odell knows how to get open." Maybe not by running the play the way it drawn up. Part of what DW does well is extend plays and find guys who can get open.
I can't say for sure but I do know that if a WR is covered, it's his job to get open. A lot was made about him running the wrong routes, but it seems that wasn't an issue for Stafford as his QB in LA. With that said, OBJ being accused of running the wrong routes when it may very well have been him improvising to get open after he was covered when running his route may have been more about excuses for Baker than anything OBJ was actually doing wrong. That opinion from me is drawn by the evidence of how productive he was playing with Stafford in LA.
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I wonder how Odell left it with Berry and KS?
Once again I can't say for sure, but one would think if he had burnt all of is bridges here the Browns wouldn't have shown up for his workout.
Quote
Just going to watch him tells me they are willing to look.
I hope we sign him if for no other reason than to think of some of our poster's heads exploding.
That will be my head exploding. I certainly want nothing to do with the Odell-and-Daddy crap show v 2.0. All he does is practice one-hand diva grabs, then drops easy catches. He's so NOT CLUTCH. I don't know why anybody would even bother.
This so reminds me of listening to the Cleveland Plain Dealer podcast in the last 4 months, w/ Mary K and D. Laubbe, one of them were lauding the fact that the Browns had gotten rid of head case personalities, because the @uote was about guys not causing a problem, "we've had guys who can't even get on a plane without causing a problem, or something like that. Welllp Hope they play well, go Browns. Browns news? They aren't going to win a playoff game This coming year either. How can we know, well Stefanski, Berry, and Depo are still around, I think their cards are face up. poker type.
I hope we sign him if for no other reason than to think of some of our poster's heads exploding.
That will be my head exploding. .
Technical definition of head exploding, includes sneezing, coughing, vomiting, ... I'm thinking..., some yells, hiccups/hiccoughs? It happens All the time.
Not worried, there is no way OBJ is coming back here unless we throw a ton more $$$ than anyone else at him. He didn't want to be here the first time, the only reason he reported after he was traded here was because of his relationship with Landry.
The way we draft I would give a 2nd and a 4th for Jeudy in a heartbeat. I doubt any 2nd and 4th would have the positive impact that Jeudy would have. Parham would be a very good addition also. JMO
I just read that it would take a 2nd and 4th to get him.
I will always prefer a known performance over an expectation of a draft pick.
He is only 23. In 2023, Jeudy will earn a base salary of $2,681,769, while carrying a cap hit of $4,834,128 and a dead cap value of $4,834,128.
There is a fifth year option.
In some ways like size and speed he is similar to Cooper. He also is considered a great route runner.
He would give the Browns a solid first string unit.
The issue is we're going to need to hit on cheaper rookie contracts to make the cap work with our more expensive veterans in place. This is true for most teams once they have good players at the money positions. A 2 and 4 is a lot to give up for what is essentially a one year rental. After this season we'd likely have to be paying ~$12M/yr (his 5th yr option number) or more to keep him.
There should be some good players available at our second round pick. They'd be cost controlled for their whole rookie deal/~4 years.
If we could do the comp 3rd and a 4th (maybe another future 4th), I might be more amenable. That way we could potentially trade back in the 2nd (if certain guys are gone, I'm looking at Adetomiwa Adebawore or maybe Gervon Dexter) and recoup some value and get a couple solid players on team friendly deals. The top of the draft isn't looking amazing, but that ~40-70 range is allegedly looking full of similarly valued, solid players.
Being able to field a team of all proven expensive vets would be great. But you can't actually really do that in a salary cap league. KC had a bunch of rookies in significant roles last season. They're still having to let proven veterans go (seemingly in our favor with Thornhill even.)
It's a balancing act. I don't think we can really afford to spend more on our offense expensive vet-wise. We need to get cheaper replacements ready to replace the vets. Unfortunately, Jeudy doesn't really fall into that category.
We still need some improvement in the defensive trenches it seems to me, and I think it would be wiser to spend what's left of our cap room, excluding rookie contracts, there.
Jeudy would be great to have, but I'm not sure trading a 2 and 4 for him would give us the most added value, especially thinking beyond this season.
The question is can Browns the Browns draft a player in this Draft that can equate to what Jeudy can give you? No. I think Berry and Stefanski found out the hard way Trying to develop WRs has held this offense back hence also A reason why the Browns haven't made the playoffs in 2 years.
Judy would really give this offense some firepower. Look at his resume. He comes from a university that Produces NFL big time NFL WRs. Jeudy got drafted by a organization that was a train wreck From the GM to the HC. He is ultra talented. His QB was a cancer last year. Being a diva and etc. The situation was toxic in Denver.
I leaning towards Bull's line of thinking all things considered. We gave up a lot of draft assets for Watson. We do have to be cognizant of our salary cap. I'd rather draft a WR, develop him, and have him on a rookie deal for 4 years.
Other things to consider is that if you trade for Jeudy he's still on his rookie deal and you can pick up his 5th year option before signing him to a bigger deal. By that time, Cooper's contract is up and he is likely gone given that he would be 31 heading into the 2025 season. Jeudy would only be 26 and the Browns would have three drafts to build the WR room before the 2025 season.
Trading for Jeudy may mean the Browns do not extend DPJ.
It'll be interesting to see if the Browns go after him. I have a feeling they trade their 2nd pick this year for a player or trade down.
We are in a win now mode. A second round or later pick at receiver is far from a guarantee. Even if a good player it will take a year for him to figure out the NFL.
Jeudy is ready to play. He has a lot to prove. He was the 15th pick. It has not been good in Denver. He should be highly motivated.
He was 30th in targets last season. 30th in receptions. Had 987 yards for 22nd.
His PFF grade for 2022 was 78.4
He would get targets and catches with DW.
I will ride with AB. I will back his decision either way.
He suffered a meniscus injury in college (2018) and underwent surgery to repair the injury.
September 12 2021: Carted off the field. X-rays were negative, diagnosed with a high-ankle sprain. He was placed on IR and missed 6 games.
Those ^ are the only majors, here's the whole list:
Apr 2, 2018 Non-NFL Knee Meniscus Tear Jeudy suffered a meniscus injury and underwent surgery to repair the injury. Sep 20, 2020 NFL Chest Rib Sprain/Pull Unspecified Jeudy injured his ribs in the second quarter of a game against the Pittsburgh Steelers. He didn't miss any game Nov 11, 2020 NFL Shoulder Jeudy was active for Week 10's game against the Raiders despite being questionable due to a shoulder injury. Nov 25, 2020 NFL Pedal Ankle Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1 Jeudy was questionable for Week 12's game against the Saints. He was active for that game Sep 12, 2021 NFL Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3 Jeudy suffered a right high-ankle sprain in Week 1's victory over the Giants. He was placed on IR and missed 6 games. Jun 13, 2022 NFL Inguinal Groin Pull Grade 1 Denver head coach Nathaniel Hackett said Jeudy tweaked his groin and his removal was merely precautionary. Sep 18, 2022 NFL Chest Rib Sprain/Pull Unspecified Jeudy went down in the 1st quarter against the Texans. Nov 13, 2022 NFL Pedal Ankle Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1 Jeudy dealt with a strained muscle behind his left ankle, per insider Ian Rapoport.
Here is an article about what Denver should do w/him. It's from Sept. 28th. I tried to find a more recent one.
Has Jerry Jeudy earned the 5th-year option from the Denver Broncos?
By Andrew Wade Sep 28, 2022
The deadline to exercise Jerry Jeudy’s 5th-year option is not for several months, but the Denver Broncos should be thinking long and hard about whether or not he has earned that pay bump. Since entering the league as the Denver Broncos’ first-round pick in the 2020 NFL Draft, fans have been clamoring to see Jerry Jeudy live up to the immense potential he showed in the Alabama Crimson Tide offense. Unfortunately, that just hasn’t been the case, and that’s putting it lightly.
While it is easy to explain certain aspects of Jerry Jeudy’s disappointing output through 2.25 seasons (holy Pat Shurmur play-calling), there are too many all-to-revealing items that should be causing Denver Broncos general manager George Paton grave concern when evaluating his upcoming 5th-year option. Jeudy has struggled with drops. He has struggled with inconsistent performances. And, most importantly, he has been surpassed by nearly all of his peers that were drafted in the first two rounds of the 2020 and 2021 NFL Drafts.
Should the Denver Broncos give Jerry Jeudy the 5th-year option? To this point in his career, Jeudy has accumulated 1,453 yards on 97 receptions. He has been targeted 185 times in his short career, but he has only scored four touchdowns with only one of those coming after his rookie season. To round out his statistics is a whopping 15 drops and 3 fumbles. To put it bluntly, Jerry Jeudy has been a drive-killer so far in his career, and Sunday night vs San Francisco was no different.
Against the 49ers, Jeudy graded out with a 52.9 grade while hauling in just two of his six targets for a minuscule 17 yards. I’m not going to knock Jeudy for the deep ball he couldn’t haul in because that was just an amazing play by 49ers defensive back Jimmie Ward. However, in a game where Courtland Sutton put up great numbers and Russell Wilson was needing a second option to get this offense to halfway decent against a stout San Francisco defense, Jeudy couldn’t step up and be that guy.
This isn’t about just the one game though even if I admit that’s what sparked my thought about the 5th-year option and whether Jeudy deserved it. It’s the full picture of his career in Denver. I know he had to deal with a merry-go-round of below-average quarterbacks and Pat Shurmur’s horrendous play-calling that basically negated Jeudy from half of his offensive snaps, but what’s the excuse now? Even with the Denver Broncos offense struggling to score, they have been moving the ball relatively effectively. Outside of Jeudy’s big touchdown play against Seattle where he turned a catch into a 67-yard touchdown, he has only caught 6 of his other 15 targets for 63 yards.
Looking at his career makes this even worse when evaluating against guys like Justin Jefferson, Tee Higgins, Chase Claypool, CeeDee Lamb, Michael Pittman Jr, Ja’Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith, and Amon-Ra St Brown. Here is how Jeudy’s numbers compare (all normalized for games play) to the other 14 wide receivers taken in the first two rounds (plus Amon-Ra St. Brown) of the 2020 and 2021 NFL Draft:
It’s worth noting that also included in that analysis were Henry Ruggs (who is now in jail) and Jalen Reagor (who got traded because he was so bad in Philadelphia).
Currently, Jerry Jeudy is earning $3.7 million a year. If George Paton were to keep Jeudy on his 5th-year option, he would be earning north of the $18.4 million that was the salary cap for this past year’s 5th-year option.
Denver Broncos, Randy Gregory (Photo by Jamie Schwaberow/Getty Images) Denver Broncos 3 quick takeaways after clutch win vs. 49ers The Denver Broncos got themselves a win on Sunday Night Football against the San Francisco 49ers. What were the biggest takeaways?
I would love to see Jerry Jeudy bust out and become the number two guy on what could be a high-powered Denver Bronco offense (although there is a long way to go on this), but time is running out. There are 14 regular season games remaining in year three, but with Justin Jefferson and Ja’Marr Chase quickly inserting themselves into the conversation for the top-5 wide receivers in the game already, I am not holding my breath for Jeudy to make this jump. To this point, there have been far more issues than opportunities with Jeudy’s game, and the numbers back that up.
The Browns are not trading for Jeudy. No way, no how. Can't give away what's left of the 2023 draft for a wild card at WR. I know he puts up nice highlights, but he's been very inconsistent. His numbers aren't much different than DPJ, other than the fact that DPJ makes much tougher catches. Turning targets into catches has been a problem since he was drafted.
Bottom line: fun to watch -- when he's on!
Someone will overpay. It won't be Berry and the Browns.
I don't know what the Browns will do and I am not an expert on the situation w/Jeudy. I am just leaning towards trading for him being a very risky move that has a better chance of backfiring than paying huge dividends.
I don't know what the Browns will do and I am not an expert on the situation w/Jeudy. I am just leaning towards trading for him being a very risky move that has a better chance of backfiring than paying huge dividends.
That's the nutshell. Couldn't have said it better.
No thanks. We don’t need another guy playing “Quincy Morgan football”. Just draft a good one, and in the interim, he hopeful Woods or another guy turns turns the corner in their career(s) in 2023.
I don't know if I'd be too concerned with all the drops. How is a drop actually measured? More importantly, do they make plays when the ball is in their hands?
Also, Amari Cooper led the league with 18 drops his rookie year. Cooper had the second most drops in the NFL last season with 11. Ja'Marr was third with 10 drops. We all would agree Cooper is quite a good wide receiver.
In his defense, albeit not a strong defense..........13 of those 21 drops were in his rookie year.
One also needs to look at the number of catchable balls thrown. We are talking a drop every other game. Is that really all that bad? Take out the rookie stuff and it might look a lot different.
Wow a huge miss by Dorsey. You can add Greedy to list of Draft busts. DK Metcalf and AJ Brown were on the board When he took Greedy. That 2019 Browns draft haul is the worst One since returning in 1999. No wonder Dorsey isn't a GM any longer.
When you are drafted 15th the expectations are very high. But when you are a receiver you are dependent upon the quarterback.
The entire situation in Denver worked against his numbers.
So, you really have to look close and see what is this guys true potential? I have not really watched him play. He was great in college and played against the best competition.
I have not watched him. This is one of those cases where you have dig and find out. There is a good chance Jeudy is worth being the 15th pick. If Berry and the staff see his real potential and judge his talent as being first round talent. Hey, he could be worth trading for.
I watch a lot of games every week. I comment on them in the "Other Games" threads each week. I have 3 TVs on each Sunday. I have the Browns on one and I flip channels on the other two. I have seen quite a bit of Jeudy.
He's a big play WR. He looks the part. Long and lean. He is a nice target on longer throws. Not a polished route runner. And yes, he does drop the ball too much. I would like to have him. I also like Sutton and Hamler for Denver. I believe all 3 are free agents. Sutton is big and strong and probably the most consistent. Hamler runs by the D. I have had my eyes on all 3 of them because of their contract status. It's been said that Denver wants a lot for each of them.
And that is the rub. Is it cost effective to make the trade? I'll be happy if we can acquire him. I just think it is risky business. I also respect the opinions of those who do want to make the trade. Just a small difference of opinion.
I just did a quick search after I made my last post. This is the most recent article. Take it for what it's worth.
Report: Denver 'doesn’t appear' interested in trading a WR
Jon Heath follow March 16, 2023 8:03 pm MT
Following reports that the Denver Broncos have received trade calls about wide receivers Jerry Jeudy, Courtland Sutton and KJ Hamler, there’s now an update from KUSA-TV’s Mike Klis that downplays the likelihood of a trade.
“While lots of teams have called on Broncos WRs (Jeudy, Sutton) including some who have been aggressive, it doesn’t appear Denver is interested in moving them per source,” Klis tweeted on Thursday evening.
It’s possible that the Broncos have put this message out themselves in an attempt to drive up trade value by signaling to other teams that they don’t plan to trade either Jeudy or Sutton. In theory, that could make a team desperate and prompt them to increase their offer to get a deal done.
Denver might also be doing damage control after heavy speculation that one of (or even potentially both) Sutton or Jeudy could be traded. Last week, Sutton tweeted “I just want to be where I’m wanted and appreciated.”
We could also, of course, take Thursday’s report at face value and believe that the Broncos truly plan to keep both receivers in 2023. When it comes to the NFL offseason, though, it’s hard to take anything at face value.
Just my opinion, but I agree w/you about Greedy. I think he kinda got screwed here w/the change in the FO. He has all the qualities you want in an outside corner. It was clear he wasn't going to be retained, but I've thought that this is a guy who can flourish in a new setting. Similar to Jordan Poyer.
It means that everyone who can help the Browns win a Super Bowl are doing all they can to help the Browns management as well as the franchise succeed...
Player Bio Akins signed with the Knights coming out of high school, but decided to try pro baseball instead. The Texas Rangers drafted him in the third round of the 2010 amateur draft. He struggled to make hay in four years in the minor leagues before finally enrolling at UCF in 2014. He played receiver in his first season, catching 12 passes for 135 yards. In 2015, he played three games before a torn ACL ended his year (14 receptions, 152 yards, two TD; six att., 149 yards on kickoff returns; two att., 15 yards on punt returns). While rehabbing his knee, Akins got stronger to move to tight end. The change paid off as he started seven of 13 games played, catching 23 balls for 347 yards and two scores in 2016. He took another step forward in 2017, garnering first-team All-American Athletic Conference honors for starting 12 games and catching 32 passes for 515 yards and four touchdowns for the undefeated Knights. Akins is 25 years old and has a one-year-old daughter that lives in Minnesota with his girlfriend in order to stay close to her family.
Overview Akins has decent size, but flashes with his speed and ability to challenge man coverage down the field. Akins saw 43.7 percent of his catches go for 20-plus yards this season, but he also has the necessary talent with the ball in his hands to take a short throw and turn it into a first down. Akins is a move tight end with the ability to separate and create throwing windows, but he won't offer much as a blocker. Akins has the talent to hear his name called on Day 3, but being a 26-year old rookie could hurt him somewhat.
Strengths Comes off the snap low and with good forward lean Early acceleration into routes is impressive Adjusts routes to prevent extended contact with re-routers Good separation burst out of his breaks Has speed to climb quickly over the top of linebackers and challenge down the field Has speed to threaten on the third level and the wiggle to do damage after the catch underneath Was run into big hits by his quarterback and got right back up Former minor league outfielder with plus ball tracking talent Natural pass catcher who snatches away from his body
Weaknesses Routes need work Fails to sell routes with aggressive fakes that move opponents Needs to get better at stacking defenders on his hip and keeping them out of the catch Inconsistent winning contested catches Will be a 26-year old rookie Flawed as a blocker Waist-bender and head-ducker Doesn't bring hands with him quickly enough into point of attack Unable to withstand power on the edge Not enough dog in his blocking to warrant true consideration as a combo tight end
Sources Tell Us
"That guy stood out to me at (Senior Bowl) practice. He got open against most of the players who were guarding him." - AFC area scout
Ive watched him play. I think a lot of the report is true. He is an athletic pass receiver. Good speed and explosiveness. Tracks the ball well. Not a blocking TE at all. Might be another good option on TE when we spread the field and/or on passing downs.
I like this signing. Dude is an athletic receiver. He won't be an in-line blocker, but he can make big plays in the passing game. He's a pretty damn good #2 option at TE. Do we still have Pharoh Brown as a blocking TE or is he gone?
Browns FO is doing a great job in FA. Kudos to Berry and the crew. Also, hopefully we can put that salary cap nonsense to bed. We have acquired 6 guys.
Browns FO is doing a great job in FA. Kudos to Berry and the crew. Also, hopefully we can put that salary cap nonsense to bed. We have acquired 6 guys.
As Eo always said back in the day, there will always be people who think the sky is falling.
Doesn't move the needle a ton for me. He had 1 TD in Watson's last season playing in Houston, and he's 30 already. I don't dislike the move, but I'm not sure how much I want to see us using him. Maybe if we flex both him and Njoku out in the slot with Cooper and DPJ outside, it could be interesting. I don't want him taking very many snaps from Njoku, but he's welcome to as many of Bryant's as he wants as far as I'm concerned.
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